Let me introduce myself. My name is Mark Sisson. I’m 63 years young. I live and work in Malibu, California. In a past life I was a professional marathoner and triathlete. Now my life goal is to help 100 million people get healthy. I started this blog in 2006 to empower people to take full responsibility for their own health and enjoyment of life by investigating, discussing, and critically rethinking everything we’ve assumed to be true about health and wellness...
I find that grain bashing makes for a tasty, but ultimately unsatisfying meal.
You all know how much I love doing it, though. But no matter how often I sit down to dine on the stuff (and I’ve done it with great gusto in the past), I always leave the table feeling like I left something behind. Like maybe I wasn’t harsh enough about the danger of gluten, or I failed to really convey just how much I hated lectins. If I didn’t know better, I’d think the mere mention of grains was eliciting a crazy insulin-esque response and throwing my satiety hormones all out of whack. I was filling up on anti-grain talk, but I just couldn’t fill that void for long.
Well, I’ve got the hunger today, and this time I aim to stuff myself to the point of perpetual sickness. I don’t ever want to have to look at another anti-grain argument again (yeah, right). If things get a little disjointed, or if I descend into bullet points and sentence fragments, it’s only because the hunger has taken over and I’ve decided to dispense with the pleasantries in order to lay it all out at once.
So please, bear with me.
Apart from maintaining social conventions in certain situations and obtaining cheap sugar calories, there is absolutely no reason to eat grains. Believe me – I’ve searched far and wide and asked everyone I can for just one good reason to eat cereal grains, but no one can do it. They may have answers, but they just aren’t good enough. For fun, though, let’s see take a look at some of the assertions:
“You need the fiber!”
Okay, for one: no, I don’t. If you’re referring to its oft-touted ability to move things along in the inner sanctum, fiber has some unintended consequences. A few years back, scientists found that high-fiber foods “bang up against the cells lining the gastrointestinal tract, rupturing their outer covering” which “increases the level of lubricating mucus.” Err, that sounds positively awful. Banging and tearing? Rupturing? These are not the words I like to hear. But wait! The study’s authors say, “It’s a good thing.” Fantastic! So when all those sticks and twigs rub up against my fleshy interior and literally rupture my intestinal lining, I’ve got nothing to worry about. It’s all part of the plan, right?
Somehow, I’m not convinced that a massive daily infusion of insoluble grain fiber is all that essential. And that “lubricating mucus” sounds an awful like the mucus people with irritable bowel syndrome complain about. From personal experience I can tell you that once I completed my exodus from grains, the IBS completely stopped. If you’re not yet convinced on the fiber issue I’ll refer you to Konstantin Monastyrsky’s Fiber Menace. Anyway, there’s plenty of fiber in the vegetables and fruit I eat. Which takes me to the next claim:
“You need the vitamins and minerals!”
You got me. I do need vitamins and minerals, like B1 and B2, magnesium and iron, zinc and potassium. But do I need to obtain them by eating a carb-heavy, bulky grain? No, no I don’t. You show me a serving of “healthy whole grains” that can compete – nutrient, vitamin, and mineral-wise – with a Big Ass Salad. What’s that? Can’t do it? Thought so.
“But it forms the foundation of the governmental food pyramid!”
You know, I should have just started the entire post with this one. I could have saved my fingers the trouble of typing and your eyes the trouble of reading. Governmental endorsements are not points in your favor, grain-eater; they are strikes against you. An appeal to authority (unless that “authority” is actually a preponderance of scientific evidence, of course) does not an effective argument make. Conventional Wisdom requires consistent, steady dissection and criticism if it is to be of any value.
There’s a reason grains are first and foremost on the list of foods to avoid when following the Primal Blueprint: they are completely and utterly pointless in the context of a healthy diet. In fact, if your average unhealthy person were to ask for the top three things to avoid in order to get healthy, I would tell them to stop smoking, to stop drinking their calories (as soda or juice), and to stop eating grains. Period. Full stop. They really are that bad.
I’ve mentioned this time and again, but the fundamental problem with grains is that they are a distinctly Neolithic food that the human animal has yet to adapt to consuming. In fact, cereal grains figured prominently in the commencement of the New Stone Age; grains were right there on the forefront of the agricultural revolution. Hell, they were the agricultural revolution – einkorn wheat, emmer, millet, and spelt formed the backbone of Neolithic farming. They could be stored for months at a time, they were easy enough to grow in massive enough quantities to support a burgeoning population, and they promoted the construction of permanent settlements. Oh, and they were easily hoarded, meaning they were probably an early form of currency (and, by extension, a potential source of income inequality). And here’s the kicker: they were harsh, tough things that probably didn’t even taste very good. It also took a ton of work just to make them edible, thanks to their toxic anti-nutrients.
Toxic anti-nutrients? Do tell.
Living things generally do not want to be consumed by other living things. Being digested, for the most part, tends to interrupt survival, procreation, propagation of the species – you know, standard stuff that fauna and flora consider pretty important. To avoid said consumption, living things employ various self defense mechanisms. Rabbits, for example, with their massive ears, considerable fast-twitch muscle fibers, and nasty claws, can usually hear a predator coming, outrun (out-hop?) nearly anything, and (in a pinch) slash a tender belly to shreds. Blue whales are too big to fit into your mouth, while porcupines are walking reverse pincushions. Point is, animals have active defense mechanisms. They run, fight, jump, climb, fly, sting, bite, and even appeal to our emotions (if you’ve ever seen a puppy beg for a treat with sad eyes, you know that isn’t just accidental cuteness) in order to survive. All the while, predators are constantly evolving and generating adaptations.
Plants, though, are passive organisms without the ability to move, think, and react (for the most part). They must employ different tactics to ensure propagation, and they generally have to rely on outside forces to spread their seed. And so various methods are “devised” to dissuade consumption long enough for the seed to get to where it’s going. Nuts have those tough shells, and grains have the toxic anti-nutrients, lectins, gluten, and phytates. (Of course there are some obvious exceptions. Fruits are tasty, nutritious, and delicious so that animals will eat them whole and poop out the seeds, preferably into some fertile soil. The seed stays intact throughout the digestive process; it is indigestible by design. No seed “wants” to be digested, because this would defeat the purpose. They “want” to be swallowed, or borne by the wind, or carried by a bee to the next flower, but they do not want to be digested.)
Some animals are clearly adapted to grain consumption. Birds, rodents, and some insects can deal with the anti-nutrients. Humans, however, cannot. Perhaps if grains represented a significant portion of our ancestral dietary history, things might be a bit different. Some of us can digest dairy, and we’ve got the amylase enzyme present in our saliva to break down starches if need be, but we simply do not have the wiring necessary to mitigate the harmful effects of lectins, gluten, and phytate.
Gluten might be even worse. Gluten, found in wheat, rye, and barley, is a composite of the proteins gliadin and glutenin. Around 1% of the population are celiacs, people who are completely and utterly intolerant of any gluten. In celiacs, any gluten in the diet can be disastrous. We’re talking compromised calcium and vitamin D3 levels, hyperparathyroidism, bone defects. Really terrible stuff. And it gets worse: just because you’re not celiac doesn’t mean you aren’t susceptible to the ravages of gluten. As Stephan highlights, one study showed that 29% of asymptomatic (read: not celiac) people nonetheless tested positive for anti-gliadin IgA in their stool. Anti-gliadin IgA is an antibody produced by the gut, and it remains there until it’s dispatched to ward off gliadin – a primary component of gluten. Basically, the only reason anti-gliadin IgA ends up in your stool is because your body sensed an impending threat – gluten. If gluten poses no threat, the anti-gliadin IgA stays in your gut. And to think, most Americans eat this stuff on a daily basis.
Phytates are a problem, too, because they make minerals bio-unavailable (so much for all those healthy vitamins and minerals we need from whole grains!), thus rendering null and void the last, remaining argument for cereal grain consumption.
What, then, is the point to all this grain madness? Is there a good reason for anyone (with access to meat, fruit, and vegetables, that is) to rely on cereal grains for a significant portion of their caloric intake?
The answer is unequivocally, undeniably no. We do not need grains to survive, let alone thrive. In fact, they are naturally selected to ward off pests, whether they be insects or hominids. I suggest we take the hint and stop eating them.
And with that, I’m done. I don’t think I could eat another bite.
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While I feel it’s probably right, it surely isn’t a must read. That is, unless your must read criteria favors feelings and cute parenthetical usage over evidence and citations.
Thank you Mark Sisson for this article and everyone who commented. The Paleo diet is amazing and giving up grains was one of the best decisions I have made for my life and health.
@R: Actually if you look through the article Mark links to a bunch of studies to back up his key points.
Personally I am very much against gluten grains, although I do eat healthier grains like rice once or twice a week. For pleasure, not for health.
At the end of the day, grains are a food group that contains absolutely NO essential nutrients that you can’t get in MUCH greater amounts from animals and vegetables. Therefore, making them the foundation of the food pyramid (or food plate) just doesn’t make any sense at all.
I think the evidence is overwhelming, especially from studies on carb restricted diets, that the majority of people who are overweight, diabetic, etc. would do best by avoiding or minimizing grains.
Agreed. These are some interesting assertions, and probably worth investigating, but where is the evidence? What sources can you cite? Are there any peer-reviewed studies that support your claims?
It takes more than vitriol and big words to make me change my daily habits.
Research paleo diet and you will see that it is greatly considered a bad idea based off inaccurate theory. Red meat and eggs high in cholesterol good cancer preventing grain bad? This is essentially a dairy free Atkins fad diet. It’s actually listed as one of the worst diets out of a list of 25 and is generally considered a fad diet. It’s based on a diet of people that didn’t live long and had horrible health. By the way fiber does a lot more than give you a solid shit. Oh we’ll have fun with your colon cancer dumb asses.
How stupid must this guy feel now…
People who attempt to out others with no evidence themselves need to be held accountable, like this guy.
Reade
J is right, meat is terrible for you. It is the absolute worst thing to eat, definitely worse than grains. Grains are obviously bad too. So what do we eat? Just fruits, vegetables and nuts? Raw vegan?
J
Also the key is moderation. There is no need to cut anything completely out of your diet. Why punish yourself. Health is based on person to person. No one has the right answer. One person say eat it or prepare it like this and the next says dont. The key is to get the nutrients you need I’m a moderate and common sense diet.
Of the links that he gives in the article, several of them lead to dud 404 error pages. One of them was done 40 years ago, and the one from 2006 that he linked to hadn’t even been published when he got the info from it.
The only legit article I could see that he linked to had a p value of 0.036 for the variable he was interested in which, while statistically significant in some studies, is not an overwhelmingly positive result, and I couldn’t find any other articles to back this result up.
Meanwhile, I look this up on Google Scholar and it is just full of published and peer reviewed articles from all over the place that say the exact opposite to this article.
I’m not saying that this article isn’t true, but telling me about personal experience and linking to other articles telling me about personal experience simply doesn’t count as evidence for me. Can anyone please point me towards the scientific literature for this? I can’t seem to find it.
I agree with Kris’s comment that the article is full of studies to back up most of the salient points. And I’m no fan of grains at all.
However, I think the article could use a bit of updating based on what we know now, specifically in terms of fiber and lectins.
Lectins are bad, but they’re almost always broken down by heat and digestion, so the harmful effects are mostly limited to folks with a compromised gut flora or pre-existing digestive issues.
More importantly, while we don’t need the fiber that grains contain (predominantly non-fermentable), our guts do thrive on fermentable fiber and resistant starch. That’s obviously no reason to eat grains, but we shouldn’t dismiss fiber altogether. The science on fiber gets reported in bad ways, but it’s pretty conclusive.
Thank you for your input. I would like to make a few remarks concerning your post.
I would like to start with three quotes from an FDA handbook on phytohaemagglutinin:
“Raw kidney beans contain from 20,000 to 70,000 hau, while fully cooked beans contain from 200 to 400 hau”
“as few as four or five raw beans can trigger symptoms”
“besides inducing mitosis, lectins are known for their ability to agglutinate many mammalian red blood cell types, alter cell membrane transport systems, alter cell permeability to proteins, and generally interfere with cellular metabolism”
This would mean that 100 cooked kidney beans contain the same amount of lectins as one raw kidney bean, and four raw (or 400 cooked) beans can already have a noticeable negative effect. And apparently, the digestive tract is not very efficient in breaking down these proteins before they can do any harm! This, at least to me, is enough reason to assume that less than 400 cooked kidney beans, while not resulting an immediately noticeable effect, will still affect the intestinal lining in a negative way. Coupled with the apparent damage to the epithelial cells caused by the fiber, I believe there is a real danger posed to your gut health in the long term.
Now, of course this is just about kidney beans – other grains usually don’t have lectins with such extreme effects. Still, if you eat some of them every day, the damage might easily pile up. And you’ll only notice it when you have a grievous enough condition, because after all you don’t exactly feel your intestinal lining being damaged. Theoretically, this could result in autoimmune diseases and other conditions associated with chronically high inflammation markers (damage to your lining causes inflammation, and the lining has a huge surface, so there’s a lot of room for a lot of inflammations at once).
That said, I don’t think this article is very well-written or founded. I would recommend PaleoMom’s articles on lectins and phytic acid, if you want to delve deeper into the subject.
Kind regards,
Michael
PS: And obviously, you’re right about the fiber part. Soluble fiber is what our gut bacteria live off of, after all.
Arejaye
The thing here though is….is if you believe everything you read, there’s nothin’ left on the menu, so to speak. Most, if not all foods have some benefit, BUT….all things in moderation. And I don’t find this article a “must read”. Interesting yes. Must read, no way. The only foods I can think of off the top of my head to DEF stay away from, from bite one, is stuff like McDonalds, etc., but we’d be comparing oranges to apples. I’d hardly call McDonalds “food”…it just fills your gut and your arteries with crap you don’t want EVER! Trust me….I learned the hard way. I’ve already had a “light” heart attack, a stint in my right coronary artery, then a couple years later, total flat line cardiac arrest dead as a door nail, bit the dust kinda dead, and they had to do an emergency quad bypass, and a femoral aortal replacement. Not a lot o’ fun. Just shy of 3 days of it bein’ one year, I’m still recovering. And NONE of it was attributed to grains, but to fat and high cholesterol foods. It’s a proven fact that oats and oatmeal reduce cholesterol, and I do believe it’s a GRAIN. Isn’t that strange? They sure ain’t no fish, dairy product, veggie or meat. Again….all things in moderation, but just use your brain and stay away from fatty foods unless the fat is the Omega 3 fatty acid in fish and certain other “land foods”. Don’t let this, or any other site brain wash ya bro. Learn the good fats from the bad, read labels, and realize if grains were a death nell for the human species, we’d not have made it this far along the evolutionary chain anyway. Or…if you wanna look at it from a different point of view….”Give us this day our DAILY bread…” Just sayin’
Have you tried eliminating grains? I did and saw some amazing results. I lost forty lbs, saw my allergies almost disappear, and my asthma completely resolved. My allergist still refuses to believe that it has anything to do with grains, even though every time I have beer or some pizza I will wheeze for a day or more. To her, like you, it is simply too unlikely. There must be some other explanation. I.e. ‘That Tim guy is a crazy nut.’ (I won’t dispute that part.)
I tried the conventional wisdom of eating ‘heart healthy whole grains’, bags of veggies and lean meats. It just made me sicker. I even went raw vegan for nearly a year, again sicker. Honestly, that was when I was the sickest with constant bronchitis, wheezing, virus after virus, etc. But after ditching the grains and switching to heart healthy saturated fat… never better. I haven’t been sick in over a year now. Not a sniffle. Maybe my allergist is right and maybe you’re right. Maybe it won’t work for you at all, but you’ll never know for sure unless you try (some green eggs and ham).
For the sake of your health I would suggest you reconsider your position on this subject. Besides corn there are no grain foods that we eat today that are unprocessed. I challenge you to find a grain (other than corn) and try to eat it in its natural state. you’ll either swallow it whole in which case it will go straight through you like fiber or you’ll be booking yourself into the dentist to get your chipped teeth fixed after trying to chew it. even if you did get to the contents within the grains shell you would not enjoy the taste. Should we really be eating something that we can only tolerate eating following it being processed and combined with sugar or flavors? you say none of it was attributed to grains but do you actually have any idea of the physiological processes within the body for the progression of heart disease??? do you know what roles cholesterol play within the body?? Do you know why they’ve attributed atherosclerosis and heart disease to high cholesterol?? Cholesterol is vital for human function. It is a structure of cells it ensures correct hormone production and function and plays a vital role in digestion. We need cholesterol. High cholesterol does not predict your risk of heart disease and nor does fat intake as long as its natural animal or plant based fat. just like sugar grain intake leads to systemic inflammation leading to the oxidation of LDL cholesterol and the dysfunction of HDL cholesterol. When LDL-C is oxidized it is attracted into the intima of artery walls thus causing atherosclerosis and heart disease.They made assumptions about cholesterol purely based on its role in transporting fat and got it all wrong but now that they’re making billions and billions of dollars selling cholesterol lowering drugs noone is whiling to correct the misconceptions of cholesterol. Cholesterol is only bad when your body is in an inflamed state. Go to your doctor and ask him to measure your levels of C-reactive protein which is a marker of inflammation then go on a no grain diet high fat and high protein diet (meats, fish, nuts, seeds, vegetables, salads) for a month or so and get it retested. You will see a decrease in C-reactive protein levels thus meaning you will have reduce the systemic inflammation in your body in turn reducing your risk of further complications associated with heart disease. Cholesterol lowering meds work to decrease risk of complications associated with heart disease but not by lowering cholesterol. Studies show that cholesterol lowering tablets slow the progression of atherosclerosis before its taken any affect to lower cholesterol levels. The fact that cholesterol lowering drugs reduces systemic inflammation is the true mechanism behind how they work however cholesterol lowering drugs increase cancer proportionally to the decrease in heart disease complications. also you do realize that the studies and articles you read about oats and every other product claiming to reduce cholesterol are all reported by people with invested interest in their sales?? they are the ones doing the brain washing. Fat intake has decreased and grain intake has increased and yet we are seeing a continual rise in heart disease, diabetes obesity (especially in children) and many other conditions and our life expectancy is beginning to decrease … go figure.. I could go on and on about the relationship between grain intake and many other health conditions.
Arejay, Congratulations on making it through what sounds like an awfully scary and traumatic experience! I’m happy you’ve chosen to pay attention to your diet. It’s definitely smart to avoid McDonald’s.
However, it sounds like you’re informed by old recommendations. Saturated fat has not been proven unequivocally to raise cholesterol and clog arteries. Your body produces almost all the cholesterol it needs, and you actually absorb <10% cholesterol from foods. Chronic inflammation promotes arterial plaques, and this is something you must address with a good diet. The only true "bad fats" out there are hydrogentated oils. Stress and healthy social connections that promote happiness and physical connection are also shown in many studies to reduce cardiac events.
As a Registered Dietitian, I've been reading research about fats for years. I'm amazed that we still continue to tell people to eat low-fat, high-carb diets when this is not well supported in our scientific evidence. In fact, our evidence shows this advice to be harmful: as people have reduced fat in their diets, their sugar & carb intake has increased. So has waistlines, cancer, diabetes, and heart disease.
Good luck. And please keep looking for good research to draw conclusions to help you in your healing efforts.
A popular book “wheat belly”, refers to evidence the wheat plant has been re-engineered in order to produce more in a shorter time in short in the name of profits. This may partially explain why for centuries we did not have issues eating grains and now we do.
Oh dear! Whose bible have you been reading? Even my doctor is telling his patients to ditch the bread. But if you ARE intent on having bread, perhaps read ‘Nourishing Traditions’ by Sally Fallon.
You might be ok with a few oats now and again. Be sure to by the organic gluten free ones. You can actually pick oat and eat it raw, so it would qualify in the sphere of “what we used to eat.” I think you really need to find a good “health” practitioner where you live. I don’t mean a “sickness” practitioner. Sickness practitioners (otherwise known as doctors) make their money when your sick. They have no financial incentive to keep you well. I beg you to take more responsibility for your health and become informed.
I say your asthma is a result of you believing from the get go the grains would help. In other words placebo. Just listened to an asthma study were placebo and medicated patients felt same exact results. In other words I don’t believe you either.
To the comment posted by “J” (Feb. 6, 2012) in response to “Tim’s” comment about his allergy disappearing and that being the placebo effect – that’s untrue. I went off gluten last year because I had been tested years earlier only to discover, after an 8-week detox/reintroduction of nearly everything, that I am wheat sensitive, but had, sadly, fallen back off the wagon with my pregnancies. Within a few years I was diagnosed with asthma, experienced itchy, flaking ears, was chronically bloated, and felt an overall lethargy, not to mention the severe mood swings and bouts of depression. Thus, I realized I had to do something proactive. I had no idea at the time that going off gluten would have any effect on my asthma, nor was it suggested by my naturopath – I was merely doing this for the ear flaking; however, I went from inhalation of a daily cortico-steroid and occasional need for an inhaler, to being drug- and asthma-free. In fact, this past winter I didn’t even get my usual bout of bronchitis, nor did I get sick! So all I want to contribute to this discussion is that if you can’t believe in the tangible results that people post here, what can you believe in? Certainly not the doctors! When I told my allergist about the asthma going away and asked if he ever saw this in connection with gluten elimination, he answered in the affirmative. When I asked him why then he didn’t tell his asthma patients to try a gluten detox, he answered that he’d have no more patients! I got my kids off gluten, as well, and my son’s eczema disappeared, in addition to my daughter’s ADHD reversing and the school taking her off her IEP. You can negate this all you like, but at some point you have to recognize the truth in personal human trials/results. By the way, happily, I haven’t had a bout of depression since!
Do Not Eat Grains…knows what he/she is talking about; sounds like Dr. Jason Fung, an internist in Toronto, Canada who has done an extensive review of most of the published scientific evidence in the last 50+ years. See his 6-part YouTube Video Lecture series “Aetiology of Obesity.” He is having great success treating his Type 2 Diabetes patients with a combination of intermittent fasting and the paleo diet principles of cutting out processed carbohydrates and vegetable oils.
Without those grains, and other glutenous high GI starchy carbs, cholesterol would be burned for energy, along with fat and protein… Then there would be no need for oatmeal to lower the bad cholesterol. Just sayin’.
“…so the harmful effects are mostly limited to folks with a compromised gut flora or pre-existing digestive issues.”
The issue here is that, given the plethora of intestinal-barrier-loosening substances in foods like wheat (its proteins demonstrably act on zonulin, which loosens tight junctions), and the contributions to this damage by dairy, and processed foods. (via, to give one out of tens of examples, indigestible large molecules)… it is very likely that many people have compromised guts to some noticeable degree.
The issue is that statements like this cause folks who have not officially been told or “diagnosed” as having damaged digestive systems… or who don’t experience _that_ much heartburn or bloating (healthy animals do not generally experience these at all)…
…to consider themselves healthy.
It is more likely than not that most folks have damaged guts and impaired gut flora, especially if they have been eating additive-laden American/European popular foods for awhile.
(There is a plethora of information regarding negative impact on gut flora of many, many common, processed foods like bread.)
So, the default attitude might more correctly be: If you’re not sure whether you have gut problems, it is more than likely that you do to some degree.
(unless you have been eating Primal/Paleolithic-esque without neolithic foods or additives for a very long time)
We live in an unideal world; I do not like encouraging complacence and blindness.
The tendency to assume one is healthy until acute signs show up — and just assuming little discomfort (like consistent heartburn, burping, etc.) as “normal” causes MASSIVE problems.
I think it would be a lot less disingenuous to simply state the likelihood that a random reader has some noticeable degree of gut dysfunction.
Also, while I did not really touch on it all, the gut is a very complex system.
Hormones, immune barrier, an entire microbiome… and constantly processing our energy and nutrients.
There are many other effects on the health of the digestive system than just intestinal barrier loosening and gut flora problems, although both are HUGE in and of themselves.
Inflamed intestinal lining, overgrowth of undesirable microbes.. all such things are very likely quite common.
Not knowing about a health problem does not equal not having it.
Since most health issues are a continuum (and do not just become significant when the acute symptoms driving one to a doctor — or the biomed library or internet to research frantically — show up), most folks have them.
Most folks have them in their 20’s, 30’s, and 40’s in the U.S., which completely underscores any arguments about hunter-gatherer folk living less long (also not quite true).
We’re getting chronic health issue development FAR YOUNGER than ANY Indigenous populations… or even our great-great-grandmothers (go back 2-3 centuries).
…so, in essence, the paradigm and approach to health and the beginnings of health problems needs to shift, and… since most Paleo/Primal folks who post and have done a decent amount of research are aware oi many of the pieces of this puzzle (which, when put together, lead to overwhelmingly likely chronic, low-level but bad health problems developing in most folks)…
…perhaps is wiser to communicate much more clearly than “absolutely healthy until proven unhealthy”
…which is the prevalent attitude in the vast majority of those who are in the midst of developing health ills and woes.
Ask the Inuit how many grains they get north of the Arctic Circle? I guess a diet that sustained Arctic cultures for thousands of years is unsustainable…
CHINA STUDY…by Thomas Colin Campbell…a must read…ask your library to buy one. Also, organically raised fruits and vegetables and grains. BTW, the word “grains” is really not very exact as there are lots of different grains and not all are exactly alike. So if you want exact information, seek a more exacting source. But this is interesting in a kind of waste your time way
Hello all,
I recently discovered this blog and have found it very interesting. There is a growing body of evidence that suggests a link between grain consumption and chronic degenerative diseases. I’m interested in the link between lectins from grains (specifically legumes) and neurodegenrative diseases such as dystonia and other movement disorders. Does anyone out there have information about this or know of anyone who has successfully treated their dystonia by adopting a Paleo-diet? Thanks….
Ah, grains, ie. cereal grains, are not legumes. Peas, beans, alfalfa, carob, soy, peanuts. They are plants in the Fabaceae family. Cereal grains are grasses in the monocat family Poaceae.
My husband and I recently embarked on a “healthier” alternative lifestyle just over a month ago…and when I say alternative, it’s due to the fact that it is not your average American diet including cereal, pasta, bread and “whole grains.” In fact, we eliminated grains completely and have been enjoying lean protein, vegetables and some fruits. In this past month, I have lost 11 lbs. (that I have been trying to lose the past two years) and my husband has lost 18 lbs. Now, I’m not promoting this as a “diet plan” because while that certainly was a nice side affect it was not our goal. I used to have serious gastrointestinal issues and migraines on a weekly basis. My husband used to have cravings where he would get up in the middle of the night, go to the kitchen and eat half a loaf of bread, not able to able to stop himself. After purging our bodies from the wheat/gluten, my problems have literally disappeared and my husbands cravings are gone. It sounds miraculous, I know…but this little scientific experiment that we tried on ourselves has definitely convinced us. We love our new Paleo-lifestyle and will never go back!
It really is amazing to me that our government pushes everyone to eat something so bad for you just so they can make billions of dollars a year. They know its bad for us, they just dont care. I am a veteran and after 1 particular tour in Iraq i all of a sudden had asthma. I was sent for tons of tests that came up inconclusive and they ended up giving me an inhaler an advair neither of which helped. After 2 years of using meds that didnt work and all types of tests nothing worked and i felt awful whenever i worked out. Fastforward to Crossfit….i started doing it with Seal Team 5 on a deployment and it was great, but i still felt like crap during workouts. I started going to and actual Crossfit gym and they taught me about eating Paleo. Within 4 weeks of being grain, dairy, and sugar free my asthma was GONE!!! Not only that but my energy levels increased, and i was sleeping more soundly through the night, and now ill be 40 next year and i am one of the top performing athletes in our gym. So good for you guys going Paleo and tell the world about it like i do. Everyone i meet and will give me a chance i tell them about the Paleo diet.
Gave up gluten because daughter gets rashes and who knows what else internally and have noticed improvements in my health as well. For instance, with my last pregnancy i didn’t gain as much weight or get swollen ankles and stuff. But i also don’t eat meat, except wildcaught seafood and eggs. and i don’t eat dairy. also don’t eat HFCS. so i’m questioning if it’s the gluten free that is responsible for me being healthy. Also i eat a lot of rice and corn because it doesn’t have gluten. Is rice and corn restricted in this diet? what about beans? we eat lots of beans (too much).
I just started eating vegan about 2 months ago. Many health issues are resolving; I can hardly believe my eyes. I eat when I am hungry just enough to arrest the hunger. I am eating far less. I do not eat soy, but anything else that grows. No “factory food”. I do not fight appetite or hunger or cravings. Fatigue is gone. Much more alert and energetic. I’ve never felt this good. I don’t miss the old way of eating at all.
Tee Dee
It’s amazing how differently we can react to the same things. When I decided to go vegan about 10 years ago, I gained quite bit of weight, despite greatly increasing my activity level and my blood sugar went up to a prediabetic level. It was only when I adopted a paleo diet, low in carbs, no grains, that the weight started coming off and psoriasis cleared up and energy returned to normal. Also, just as wonderful is the lack of cravings. Food no longer ‘calls my name’, especially at night.
Reade
Tee, when you quit eating meat and animal products you can still gain weight and be unhealthy if you replace meat and animal products with processed foods, canned foods, chinese food, heavy italian food, oreos, potatoe chips and oily snacks, basically junk. A healthy vegan diet consists of fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans and grains. Take the grains out and wow, I dare you to not lose weight and get healthy. I’m positive you two were not on the same diet, even though you both went vegan.
TeeDee
No, I was very health conscious and didn’t believe in putting processed junk in my system, so I wasn’t able to blame that for the weight gain and other health issues that developed. It turns out that Insulin Resistance due to the high carb intake caused it. Once carbs were lowered, the weight fell off and carb cravings went with it, thankfully..
Ashwin
Hi Rob, I have dystonia. I read on one dystonia forum of a forum member adopting this diet and seeing significant changes.
Arrepientanse hippies, todo lo que comen les hace da~o porque viven en una vida llena de pecado y por eso tienen miedo de comer lo que Dios creo para nuestro bien….ustedes le dicen malo a lo que Dios dice bueno. Estan enfermos por pecadores NO por comer gluten o granos. Arrepientanse!
god didn’t create modern grains, people did by taking entirely inedible grasses and turning them into edible, albeit indigestible grains like wheat etc.
I have been learning more about the paleo diet from a friend of mine. My experience is in veganism and macrobiotics, and as I am learning more about our excess grain consumption as a society, what you say Marion really makes sense to me. You can pick an apple or pluck a lettuce leaf and it is ready to eat, but wheat or rice pulled from the ground are certainly not!
while I am on the fence about the whole grain issue I have to say Jesus Christ did eat bread did he not? I mean cavemen didn’t eat “salads” they didn’t eat fruit salads either. They didn’t eat nearly many of the things we eat today. They just weren’t available. So should we assume eating chinese, italian are bad too? I think the problem with the whole grains is that they are “bulking” up too much of most peoples meals. too many carbs and fiber. Instead of a bowl of cereal maybe some eggs and a piece of toast? Or a cup of cereal and some eggs? I have to admit that i haven’t eaten any cereal within a couple days and I don’t feel normal either… Should I eat more yogurt for that? how about those nuts that are bad for you too? maybe we shouldn’t eat anything because too much veggies and fruit are bad too? i think our modern day human life style completely strips us of our natural instinct for survival. If caveman saw a wheat field and he was hungry I bet he’d try and eat it if a nice buffalo wasn’t available. Why do Possums and rats snack on our food garbage? survival!
He was penniless, itinerant, and spent much time preaching among the poor — saying “daily steak” would have been unrealistic and cruel.
The Roman Empire was known for its free public bread, so He might have been using a common turn of phrase for “sustenance”.
He was either the Son of God, and could have eaten uranium if He wanted to… or an ordinary man who grew up poor and couldn’t have known anything about nutrition. Either way, He had no reason to avoid bread.
His theme was all about getting into Heaven, not optimizing one’s health and lifespan. He specifically told people not to worry about what they ate.
He died violently at a young age, so we have no data about his long-term health.
and honestly, calling us hippy sinners? and that we’re only sick because we’re sinners? i can only presume you’re joking, otherwise take your zeal and stuff it where the sun don’t shine!
I’d like to see one theist show any historical proof that “Jesus” even existed. Careful records were kept of everything back then, yet not a single shred of evidence exists; and you can’t count the bible as it was clearly written by men and shows many inconsistencies and outright contradictions. Not to mention that the “Jesus Story” was told for hundreds of years before his supposed arrival. They just changed the names of those born of a virgin, having 12 followers, performing healings and ‘miracles’, being killed and rising again in 3 days. Those stories were told about Horus, Mithra, Dionysius, Krishna and others. So let’s keep personal belief systems that are unproven out of a conversation about grains.
Ok. Grains are bad, too much sugar is bad, a bit of sugar is bad, salt is bad, milk is bad, gluten is bad, egg is bad, meat is bad (acoording to some people), being vegetarian is bad (according to other people), everything you like is bad and what you don’t like, but got used to them, became bad.
The problem is not what we eat but how we eat. How we mentally accept food as a good thing – or not. How we don’t feel guilty when we eat some things, how we start creating all kind of illness just after eating something we think is bad. Ten years ago we used to believe eggs were good for us, now the called modern science tell us they are bad. Everything can be bad if you trully believe they are bad.
I am not saying we should go and eat all the unhealthy food we can find. Of course we want to leave more and more, being able to share life with our grandchildren and, if is possible, with their kids too. But we cannot feel guity for everything people say is bad for you. What is bad for you may be good for me. It’s just the way we think, which way more powerfull than any diet you can find.
Again, lets pay attention to the way we see things, the way we believe something is bad or not to us. We don’t need to get totally crazy eating junk food, but also there is no point of liiving life when you can’t enjoy an amazing pasta full of grains and a beautiful grass of wine full of sugar. Life is just meant to be enjoyed.
I think we were meant to eat meat, veggies, and fruit, and even some dairy. I don’t think there is anything wrong with eating eggs (mainly because I don’t believe modern science is on our side, and anything approved by the government is a sham and a lie and a way to put more money in their pockets).
Life IS enjoyable without grains. My life is a living HELL with grains.
If you have never felt the feeling of a thousand hot burning sharp razor blades traveling slowly through your intestines, and the sudden diarrhea at the worst possible times, the migraines, the stomach cramping worse than any menstrual cramp I’ve ever had, and constantly feeling nauseated….then you shouldn’t say or assume that life with no grain is not enjoyable, because for some of us it feels like a painful, slow death.
I don’t think we were MEANT for eating anything specific. We have evolved and so our bodies has had more time to adapt to eating meat, veggies and fruit.
What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
“ediddy”, there were better, less flamey ways of putting that. Really, though, the fact that the debate is so vitriolic is ridiculous to begin with.
Different people have different dietary tolerances for different things. For instance, I’m apparently one of those 70% or more of people who can tolerate at least small amounts of cereal grain. (Remember: only 1% have celiac and 29% of that study were non-celiac with the signs of resistance showing up; that sounds soooo scary, doesn’t it? Until you realize this means 70% of people don’t have any problem at least passing gluten!)
This doesn’t mean I would force you to eat cereal grain, which you obviously don’t have tolerance for, any more than I would force a Chinese or Japanese person (who are generally lactose-intolerant) to drink a glass of milk.
Likewise, I wouldn’t force my mother to eat the raw tomatoes she gets mouth sores from! The trick is learning the diet that works for YOU, as in individual, to keep you fairly healthy and happy.
For me, a diet low in meat (and usually lean meat at that, since I don’t even LIKE the taste of fat or grease), with some eggs and fish, no white sugar and rare brown sugar (with honey usually as a preferred sweetener if I want it), occasional dairy (mostly in the form of cheese), mostly veggies, fruits, mushrooms and -yes – grains like bread and pasta, while using olive oil or butter for cooking instead of canola oil or margarine (which was NEVER invented for health reasons, you know, it was purely invented as a butter substitute that you could take on sea voyages without spoiling!)… seems to work just fine. For me.
With rare exceptions, I don’t get bowel issues; even without significant exercise (third floor walkup and working on my feet all day makes that difficult to work up to) I’m a healthy weight for my height – about 130 lbs for a female of 5’3″ (used to be about 120-125, but gained some lately because of too much fast food, which is why I’m back to cooking mushroom sautees at home with said olive oil this week :P).
And you know what? Obviously this diet wouldn’t work for you. And that is fine. For you.
But some of us are capable of eating grains on occasion without significant health issues – just like some people are able to eat occasional sweets without gaining ten pounds, or some people can digest false morels (which are, ahem, not good to eat if you don’t have a tolerance).
Nutrition is very often treated as if there’s gotta be a secret to unlock that will magically work for absolutely everyone, when the truth is, it’s EXTREMELY unique to the individual, in part because of the variety of environments humans have evolved in. Everything from food allergies (which can vary by region! French are more likely to have apple allergies, Greeks to have melon allergies, etc.) to diabetes, to metabolic rates, addictive vs. non-addictive personalities, exercise or lack thereof, and immune conditions like celiac, can impact what a person can safely, healthily eat in at least small portions.
This is not surprising, people. Stop acting surprised, or offended, on either end; this is just how evolution WORKS. Some people get the lucky mutations that allow them to take advantage of a new food source, and others don’t. There’s nothing wrong with having it, or with not having it. Either way is normal!
All we do know that can apply to “everyone”, is that too much of anything is going to throw it out of whack (and that “too much” can be a tricky thing to define), processed sugar is a bad idea, and some kind of veggie is probably good to include somewhere.
Actually, when it comes to eggs, modern science is on our side. It’s been nearly 3 decades since eggs were shown to at least not be harmful to us. Unfortunately they have not been able to break through the propaganda against them, even though the propaganda has long since stopped. I see eggs as beneficial because when people eat eggs for breakfast, they are not eating a bowl of cereal. Now if we could get them to not have toast with those eggs.
I don’t care how bad you BELIEVE something is for your body. If the substance in question isn’t bad for the human body, it won’t hurt you.
The power of your MIND is hurting you in such a case. PLACEBO effect!
The proof to all this is in the results. I am going to give up grains and see what the results are. I will see how my body changes in it’s appearance. I will see if I feel better.
I know my father ate tons of candy and tons of bread. He also smoked and didn’t exercise. He is on his deathbed now, ravaged with all kinds of diseases like diabetes, failing kidneys, etc.
I am determined NOT to die suffereing as badly with all that as he is.
I do have to say that the toxic ingredients that are in our processed foods here in the US are not allowed in Europe. The same companies that make our everyday American processed crap foods, make a less processed, non toxic version in Europe. I suspect the cigarette industry does something similar. Why would they do this? They are socialist and their government is responsible for their healthcare. Prevent illness, save money. Here in the “land of the free”, our government and their agencies approved those very same ingredients that are banned in Europe. Everyone gets sick, big corporations such as everyone in the “healthcare” industry, insurance companies, the FDA, etc benefit greatly. Here is just one of several articles that have been written on the subject. http://www.100daysofrealfood.com/2013/02/11/food-companies-exploit-americans-with-ingredients-banned-in-other-countries/
Yes, we live a stressful life but folks in Japan aren’t exactly stress free and according to the article you linked to they live a lot longer than we do. I have to believe the difference is in what we’re eating.
Many people think European and Mediterranean diets are pastry, pasta and pizza, but those things form a very small part of their meals. With fish, meat and vegetables forming the largest part and grains composing a much smaller part. In the US, thanks to the USDA, for most people, grains compose the major part of their diet.
Scientists have recently stated that in the US, the current generation’s children will be the first to have a shorter lifespan than their parents. That seems incredible with all the medical advances. Heart disease, stroke, cancer and diabetes is increasing at a phenomenal rate. It has to be diet related.
To all of you naysayers, no one has to take the word of someone else. Check your fasting glucose. Do blood tests. See what your insulin levels are, your mineral levels, your homeocystine, your cholesterol level (or are you already on a stain drug). How’s your blood pressure. Then eat Paleo for 3 months, 6 months is better. Then go get those tests done again. Prove it for yourself that this way of eating doesn’t make sense. Those of us who eat this way have already proven it to ourselves that it does make sense. If you haven’t tried it, knocking it doesn’t mean a thing.
What are we going to do, which most of the people we know and love would probably throw stones as if we tell them not only should they not eat grains, but no nuts and no seeds.
I, fortunately, met Wil Spencer of Body Electrician and I learned from him most of what you share here. I was having unbelievable digestion problems, IBS etc. Spent $1,000s on all manner of probiotics, but when I eliminated the grains etc., with days I saw immediate improvement.
Now I a working on repopulating my gut and restoring it after all the damage I have done for so long.
I can see where the real problem is.We have very limited choices in an industrial society.Everyone is time starved and grains like corn,rice,potatoes and noodles give us the necessary boost.I still eat fruit,but that is usually for breakfast.I would think expanding the variety of what you’re eating would lead to a healthier life.Problem is most everything is refined and put in bright packages for long life.Real food seems harder to come by everyday.
“Apart from maintaining social conventions in certain situations and obtaining cheap sugar calories, there is absolutely no reason to eat grains.”
This is a presumption based upon the authors (limited) knowledge in relation to all of the effects, energetic and in terms of process that eating a grain has on the body. He just doesnt know all of the reasons TO eat grain. This doesnt mean that he is correct in his presumptions. I will look at each though.
“You need the fiber!”
his retort amounts to because I feel like it and because I said so. One study cited that shows that “high fiber foods (which ones?) cause “banging on the inner lining” This is very abstract to extrapolate that grains must cause “banging” in the intestines because some food classified as “high fibre” (im betting not grains in the study) caused damage in what amounts ? in humans or rats? etc… Flimsy and not a true argument.
His next two assertions are straw men arguments. Sure its possible to eat other food sources. This doesnt mean that its by default more healthy or less especially based upon one persons experience although this does set a good start for a study.
The study would merely reveal the effects of the different diets not weather one is better or worse though as each will have strengths to the others weaknesses. It is the way of things.
Next we have “Toxic anti-nutrients? Do tell.”
Phytic acid is released when soaking grains. So… eating whole soaked grains has not yet been shown in any way to be harmful. There is one suggestion that its possibly harmful to some individuals who may have compromised digestive systems.
He does cite one of my favorite arguments for moving towards fruit based diets for ethical reasons
“Fruits are tasty, nutritious, and delicious so that animals will eat them whole and poop out the seeds, preferably into some fertile soil”
Absolutely.
“Some animals are clearly adapted to grain consumption. Birds, rodents, and some insects can deal with the anti-nutrients. Humans, however, cannot.”
Hmm… I dont know that this suggestion is actually true.
“Lectins are bad. They bind to insulin receptors, attack the stomach lining of insects, bind to human intestinal lining, and they seemingly cause leptin resistance. And leptin resistance predicts a “worsening of the features of the metabolic syndrome independently of obesity”.
What else do they do I wonder? Also are lectins released with soaking? How long does it take for lectins to be released or processed through? But ok on this I will now need to see his studies and how they were conducted and what they really show.
“Gluten may be even worse!”
His reasoning is that there are people who have trouble processing them which leads us back to cause of the weakness as the true focus that needs to be explored. You dont try to dim the sun when you get a sun burn right?
“Phytates are a problem, too, because they make minerals bio-unavailable (so much for all those healthy vitamins and minerals we need from whole grains!), thus rendering null and void the last, remaining argument for cereal grain consumption.”
What else do Phytates do? I am sure if we look more carefully we will find that all of these useless “poisons” have a ntural activities and reasons for their being in the process. I trust mother earth and my own experience over these suggestions based upon really weak scientific cause and effect explanations.
I dont know what anyone would have to gain from framing grains in this manner but my feeling is that this is being planted so to speak.
I have been doing this as well for about 4 days now. However, I can not say I feel good! I’ve had a dull headache the day after I started, sweaty and very tired. I suspect that it’s just my body rebelling from the lack of sugar, starch, wheat and grains, and that eventually I will start to feel better.
I will say on a positive note though, I am not always hungry. Generally when I’d eat before I’d be hungry again in an hour. Now however, I eat and am satisfied for hours, sometimes I don’t even need to eat lunch. I am happy about that. I haven’t had any cravings either for sugars and the like.
Those phytates and lectins DO have a purpose in grains. To keep them from being eaten or digested!
Phytates: to make that grain INdigestible, so that when the grains are eaten by birds, they will be pooped out intact. We’d poop them out intact too, if we didn’t grind and cook them, but they will still bind to the minerals in our food and shut down production of pepsin, amylase, and trypsin, 3 different digestive enzymes. These things really don’t want to be digested!
Lectins: Insecticides; they’re poisonous to everything except birds and rodents. While soaking and rinsing does remove some lectins, and more may be inactivated by cooking, much remains.
What’s true for grains here is also true for most seeds and all legumes. They’re =meant= to be indigestible! Only processing makes them edible at all; nothing makes them optimal.
But some of us do okay with grains in our diet; some of us even need some. Grains without gluten are considerably better for us, and wheat is the one to avoid above all. If you do eat it: sprout it, soak it, ferment it. It really makes the difference: if I eat grains I prepare, i don’t have problems. If I eat say, spaghetti, my face is itchy and peeling with red blotches the next morning.
A good place to start: the Weston A. Price Foundation (WAPF) and Nourishing Traditions (by Sally Fallon) practices with regard to grain. =All= grain-eating peoples soaked and/or fermented their grains to reduce the antinutrients. It’s not hard, here’s how:
Try cutting wheat out of your diet, since it’s by far the worst: lectins, phytates, gluten (which is made up of different proteins, any or all of which may induce reactions. When you stop wheat you will experience withdrawal for about a week, as one of the components of gluten (gliadin) literally acts as (no kidding) an opiate. It wasn’t even present in wheat before 1970; it was engineered into the grain. Modern wheat also has double the gluten of the wheat your grandparents ate; no wonder more people are having problems with it! Even if you’re not celiac, you can be intolerant to gluten.
Just try it. Go a month without grains. Or without wheat, at least. See how you feel and go from there. I’ll bet you like the results and are very surprised by what a difference it makes in how you feel!
Wheat was originally domesticated for beer making. Bread was an afterthought and a byproduct of that endeavour. In the form of beer, the wheat was much more digestible and nutritious because of the fermentation process than the way it is typically eaten now.
I don’t follow blogs directed at vegans and try to convince them that they are all demented. I find it odd that so many people who are against the Primal or Paleo diet are skulking around on a blog that is written for those of us who are, or who are interested in living the Primal/Paleo lifestyle. For most of us, we eat this way because we benefit from it. It’s not a fad diet for us. From the comments I’m reading here, it seems like a lot of people must get all their information from blogs and then when they don’t like what they read they demand to see the scientific evidence. All you have to do is open yours eyes and ears. There is a lot of scientific evidence to back up eliminating grains. Dozens of books that have been written on the subject with hundreds of references to studies that have been done. It is true your doctor will not tell you about these studies, in fact will probably not even know about them because their “associations” tell them what to believe. The same is true with most licensed nutritionists. They didn’t earn their license by having unconventional beliefs and they are taught to not see the obvious links between the standard american diet and disease.
Read: Nora Gedgaudis, Primal Body-Primal Mind ;Dr William Davis, Wheat Belly; Melissa Diane Smith, Going Against the Grain; Denise Minger, Death By Food Pyramid. The last one is a very open minded look at the pros and cons of several difference ways of eating. I came to the conclusion that Primal was right for me by doing a lot of reading, not because a blog told me to.
Most people with a religion feel the need to prosthelytize and many believe that eating meat is morally wrong, just like some religions believe that certain forms of birth control are morally wrong to the point of using deadly force against them.
For example, in my youth in Maryland, condoms could only be sold in restrooms in bars, due I was told to influence from the Roman Catholic Church.
Human adaptibility is why we as a species have been so successful. There seems to be a very wide genetic variation in what foods we can tolerate/thrive on so unfortunately the only way to find out what foods work best for a given individual is trial and error.
I do best on proteins/veggies/moderate fat with some fruit (mostly berries) and Greek yogurt–makes sense given my northern European ancestry. As my ancestors moved north they would have found fewer plants and more animals to eat; adjusting to a higher-protein diet while their skin and eyes faded to adjust to the decreasing amounts of sunlight.
My major grain problem is the hell they play w/my blood sugar; enough to be satisfying and my sugar goes up, up, up. Turns out I was diagnosed w/ a wheat allergy in toddlerhood (that my mother just blew off–she poured so much milk down us that a milk allergy probably would have been “oh, gee, too bad” fatal) and then nobody could figure out the weight problems, skin rashes, and fatigue that have plagued me most of my life. It’s not just gluten, either–tried a couple of things containing millet (a cereal and some baked goods) only to get even more sniffles, itches, rashes, and stomach problems than the wheat. So you never can tell until you try.
So, off the grains for good—missing the legumes, though—my blood sugar liked those. Will see what Primal does for my weight and my blood sugars.
I think the best diet is to eat as many foods that are not processed at all. If they could not eat 20 000 years ago than we shouldn’t eat it. That in my opinion is the best diet.
As I read the comments below I find the talk & different believes void of the fact that we ourselves create sick bodies through our diets and lack of physical activities. Then we try to undo what we created through what seems to be extreme diet measures to us. See at birth the average ( key word) person is breast feed (the intended) or feed a fortified substitute ( uh ohh). As toddlers we began consuming cows milk (not intended for human consumption) to accompany cereal, cookies etc and were given fruits and veggies to consume in between meals in small portions. Our parents are only doing what their parents have done and we do it to our children. It doesn’t make it right. The point is you don’t know what you don’t know. Everyone had good points except for the Jesus isn’t real part. Biblical or not we should not reference the bible unless we fully understand the context in which the passage was said. Grains are hearty and contain many attributes that makes a good staple to withstand famines and drought conditions which we commonly read about in the bible. Today: wheat is used for the very same reasons and way. Norman Borlaug one of several Nobel prize winners for a dwarf wheat to feed starving populations. In that content when you have very little choices to what is going on your plate then you should consume what can provide you with sustenance. But if you have a choice check out combine when you dine.com I have been a health guru and athletic since a very young age and always looking to be at my most optimal level of health as an adult. I do believe “everything in moderation” I also believe our food should sustain us, be satisfying and in some cases be used for medicinal purpose. We
should continuously educate our selfs on gut flora and proper digestion, and natural raw foods purpose therefore we can make good informed decisions about our own diets. God created everything with a purpose which requires study and common since in some cases to understand that purpose. Grains are a common staple for animal feed but hard for humans to digest. Ummm for that reason on the rare occasion if I consume any grain it’s organic, gluten free and the result of my change, no more weekly migraines and daily belly bloat. God bless everyone.
Very well said. When I spoke to one of fellow nurses about my dietary habits and explained that i don’t eat grains or potatoes legumes etc, she said “but how do you get your starches” like it was some sort of required food group. And this from a NURSE. She should know better, but many don’t because they just spit out what they are taught. And therein lies our problem…
Well-we are subject to the media, government and big pharma(which has our gvt in its pocket)..I instruct nurses and med students..they are not physiologists. They are not given enough information on what is dietarily necessary. They are preprogramed before entering study to have the same adulterated view of what is “good” and “necessary” for existance. This includes some cancer meds and many medicines overall. Big pharma, plus government control of the FDA and media..hmm..what makes the world go around? Could it be money? Come on-
Thank you, Melissa!! You, for one, are a very aware of what’s going on around you and not hypnotized by our media, government and big industries that capitalize off of the bad health of the public. You also realize the the Federal Reserve is a private banking corporation, not part of the government at all? The Federal Reserve is the puppet master; all of the big industries and the government are far below them. I wonder what their agenda is??? Hmmm, you and I and a few others are well aware but most others are blind to their own demise.
Hmm, like the “alternative” health industry isn’t worth billions of dollars also? Like that whole area isn’t full of quacks and scam artists trying to part the desperate and ignorant from their hard earned money? C’mon yourself.
To be honest you sound a lot like my mum, who didn’t believe in getting pap smears because it’s all about “big pharma” playing on our fears. Hey, she eats all organic, is fit and meditates- what could possibly go wrong?
Now she has stage 3 cervical cancer and wont do the chemo- apparently peroxide and mega vitamin C injections do the same job >:[
People like you who bad mouth modern medicine make me so angry- go live in a third world country and watch your kid die of an infection that a good dose of antibiotics could have fixed, or watch your loved one die in childbirth or get cancer without any access to decent treatment and then whinge about how ~evil~ big pharma and modern medicine are.
You bloody idiot.
You are aware that a doctoral degrees require a compulsory 25hrs of nutrition in between 7-10 years of study. Surveys of American instutions found the majority manage less than 20hrs. Is the suggestion is that Doctors are some sort of authority on nutrition??
Whoa, hold up there. Do you even know how hard it is to get into medical school to begin with? You can’t get in by memorizing things (although it helps) as they place heavy emphasis on critical thinking. Very few doctors are involved in research because a researchers rarely get above 6 figures while doctors get way more usually.
Well how else would they know what disorder/disease you have if you don’t look at the symptoms? Those are the only available sources of information and the so called “books” are thoroughly researched to give the best possible guess with the current set of symptoms.
Finally, yes doctors killed many people. But 99% of them were going to die anyway (1) and people can make mistakes (2). Doctors saved multiple orders of more people than killed them.
I’m sorry, but as I aspire to be a doctor in the near future I will not stand by when I see comments of this nature.
Realize that a lot of these nurses are taking this from actual classes, real professionals and researchers, not reading it online where anybody can post anything quite obviously.
Ummm…well Doctors take about a days worth of nutritional classes in the 4-8 years of medical school. That really isn’t good. Look it up. My husband works at a hospital (security) and has been told how much nutrition classes they’ve had, and they’ve said about 8 hours while they were in medical school. Anything over and above that(for them personally has been little to none), they had to learn on their own. But let me ask you, if you’re not taught to learn about nutrition in school to be a doctor or nurse, then why would you think that’s important to study once out of medical school? You’d probably think, I’ve already been taught what I was suppose to know about the human body, now it’s my job to keep up with the newest drugs coming out, and diseases, not the cause. Because that’s what they teach you in school. They are symptom chasers. I do believe Doctors have they’re place, if you’re having a heart attack, please go see a doctor. But if you have cancer, diabetes, high blood pressure, ect. please contact your local herbal doctor and talk to them about the problem. They will take care of it through natural remides. Also I do suggest coming to this site, and reading the blogs.
How many more hospitals and ER rooms have to be filled, before we get the hint…they don’t know how to cure us. The know how to stick us with needles, and pump us full of drugs our bodies don’t know what to do with. It’s so sad to see. My heart goes out to everyone who takes the Dr.s advice and gets worse. Yes Dr.s have helped people, but if it wasn’t for the conventional wisdom of, you’re sick go see a Dr. we wouldn’t be in that position to be saved. If we just took the time to research, how much greater our lives would be. Yes we’ve had our share of ER visits, my son has a bowl problem, why? Because of his old diet. We’re on a new road, and it’s going to take time, but I’m certain this is the road to recovery. Thanks Mark for posting this, and all the others. Everyone has given me much food for thought.
oh well said! I always trust the advice of security guards over a medical professional.
Everyone! Relieve the global strain on health systems while solving the overpopulation issue, see security guards and herbal charlatans for all your ailments!
Cancer and ‘herbal remedies’ should *never* be used in the same sentence. Anybody recommending such tripe should be exorcised, for they surely have a demon living inside their noggin.
this isn’t so much a response to esther as it is to ‘littleone’ and ‘tyler’.
it’s so disappointing to see such unenlightenment from people that have managed to stray so radically from the diet ‘prescribed’ by the government and health ‘authorities’ – the same people that want to prescribe you a drug for every ailment, needless to say those which include the ‘conventional’ cancer treatments.
if you’ve got enough stomach to make it to the end, i think you’ll be Very surprised with what you find and maybe, just maybe, you’ll be the ones telling all Your family, friends, colleagues, teachers, acquaintances, and anybody you bump into on the street about Budwig, Hoxsey, Pauling, Gerson, Simoncini etc. Some of which happened to be awarded the Nobel Prize for their work, only to thereafter have their studies obstructed by the the major pharma-corps of their day.
Aside from the fact that Esther did not say ‘herbal rememdies’, she said ‘NATURAL remedies’, if you had done any research on ‘natural cancer cures’ the way you had done on the paleo-diet, you’d know that these cures are based on diet, not ‘herbs’.
Having said that, do not under estimate the value/power of ‘herbs’. I’m sure i read an article on here where Mark promotes the use of fresh ‘herbs’ and spices? Definitely better used as preventative medicine rather than remedies but even mushrooms have been shown, in actual Scientific studies, carried out with ‘licensed’ medical professionals and doctors, to suppress the growth of cancer.
You have so much faith that we evolved to live on a certain diet, that this diet can reverse diseases which kill many and optimize how we function as animals, why is it so far fetched that we evolved to ‘heal’ ourselves with the [natural] medicines available to us directly from the environment around us as opposed to the medicines only available to us several hundred thousands years later, on the other side of an industrial revolution/pharma-cornucopia?
lol, with all my ranting, i forgot to post the link [that i hope Everyone will have the stomach, and the patience, to watch to the end – i.e. part 6] http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DW-twcOQcE
of course, same applies here. don’t believe everything you read/hear/see. do the research yourself.
Just so you know, speaking from experience, doctors aren’t stupid. There are definitely some bad ones, but most of them really are trying to help. I’ve been lucky enough to get a couple of true professionals. Yes, they have stuck me with needles, and yes they prescribe medicine, but it all has a legitimate purpose. I’m diabetic, and without my doctor I’d be dead. I wouldn’t trust anyone else (outside myself and my family) more with my life. I know you are probably coming from a valid history of bad experience with doctors, but I just wanted to defend them a little bit. You just have to find the good ones.
I agree with what you share about food. I am eating a paleo diet and feel great. Please don’t direct people to “herbal doctors” stating they will “take care of it” for serious medical and health issues. Sometimes they can, my friend died foregoing traditional western medicine treatments for herbs. Sometimes herbs work; great! You can’t deny that chemo has saved thousands of lives. It’s a delicate choice; herbal doctors are a great source toward recovery from treatments such as chemo.
My dad died just over a year ago from cancer ALL THANKS to the “dr’s” for killing him. We found out to late he could have naturally been cured. I am 32 and both parents are dead from cancer. I have learned a great lesson though, and I know my parents are happy about that. But to know the could have been saved is such a sad thing and I try to tell as many as I can that not all doctors are there to “help” you, and to do your research first. Anything you want is right here online or get a natural doc. Cancer docs are a scam EAT more milkshakes, high fat food, and here eat this candy while you get your chemo and don’t forget to grab a free soda while your at it. I know its not my fault but I listened to the doc when he said those things to my dad and I gave them to him not knowing it was only feeding his cancer. After chemo sometimes he would need a $6,000 shot to bring his immune system back up. WONDER WHY??? I sure do feel bad I did not look into it further on my own before it was to late. It has changed my husband and my life big time though and I am very thankful for that. One of the best things I learned is about the ozone machine and everyone should get one and use it!
Ozone is a highly reactive molecule. The reason these generators are marketed as “odor” removers is that odors are organic compounds that bind to our receptors in the nasal passages, and ozone removes pieces (molecules) from these compounds. Ozone does the same thing to pieces of your lung cells.
You are correct. In many cases, doctors treat SYMPTOMS, not the cause.
You’d be surprised that in Cuba, there is more emphasis on the causes of things than just treating a sympton. Being they are a 3rd world country, we here in the U.S. could do much better if politics and PROFIT$ weren’t an issue!
Haha… 🙂 Research? From what!?! Websites like this? Written from the biased and close-minded view of one person. Research is going out into the field and finding your OWN results, with logical and scientific backgrounds, not copying it off cheap crappy websites like this.
Perhaps it was an older nurse? or doctor? do you really think that once they graduated 20-30 years ago they kept up on the research?
I have a B.Sc. Neuroscience, and M.Sc. Physical Therapy… yes, I’m a health professional. And I did LOTS of study on nutrition, biochemistry, exercise physiology. And this post makes sense.
So…. I guess I didn’t pay attention to those “real” professionals and researchers, right?
I am also one of those who have read tons of studies/books on the subject of nutrition, though I am not as fancy as a “registered dietitian”. Despite that, I will now do my best to obliterate your naive comments about paleo and grains.
Now, this is an interview, however Dr. Fasano is the one who discovered that no matter who you are, 100% of human beings release zonulin in response to gluten, specifically the gliadin component of the protein. Zonulin regulates intestinal permeability, so that when it is released by your enterocytes it allows particles through your intestines and into the bloodstream. Not only gluten ends up in there, but also foreign and undigested molecules (especially hard-to-digest proteins like prolamines that are highly present in wheat). Your body then has a brief immune response, creates antibodies, and mops up the invading molecules. A few minutes, no harm done. But what if you consume gluten hundreds, thousands of times? Multiple times a day? Chronic zonulin release will build up the immune response to these foreign molecules. If the foreign molecule has a piece of it that looks like the beta cells in your pancreas, your body will mistakenly attack your pancreas. You now have type 1 diabetes. If it looks like the myelin sheath in your brain, you will develop multiple sclerosis. If you get cat saliva or flower pollen in your bloodstream, you will develop allergies.
So, miss registered dietitian, how do you like autoimmune diseases? Oh, and all of this is on top of the fact that grains suck nutritionally compared to meat and vegetables. You said something like oh of course a salad is more nutritious than grains – how about 8oz of steak? Look it up and do some real research, eh?
What is this, amateur hour? Mark isn’t a genius, he just compiles information from the few doctors and PhDs who know what they’re talking about. If you think I’m wrong, show me the studies, and I’ll show you why you’re incredibly wrong. As always, have nice day.
I am new so be gentle but I read some of this stuff and wonder why you people instantly buy into what is said. A lot of crap is out on the market. You can not believe everything you read. You should do your own research and find 3 reliable trusted sources to back up anything that Mark or anyone else says before you but into it. Just my opinion. How do you know what he says is true? Just because he read or conducted a study you do not know the confines of the study etc… spend some time before you make rash statements.
I’ve done the research. I’ve also applied it. You can’t deny the evidence I have – a more than 90 pound weight loss with no effort, cravings, or hunger; cessation of migraines, IBS and arthritis; normalization of blood sugars and cholesterol levels; increased energy; better sleep – the list goes on and on. I didn’t “instantly buy into” anything.
3 reliable trusted sources? Let me introduce you to the shelf of about thirty books on diet and nutrition that I’ve read (and I know there’s thirty or so, because I just unpacked them from moving boxes in my new place). I’m not an idiot and neither are the other folks who’ve taken up Mark’s way of eating. We’re the smart ones, and we’ll live longer and healthier than anyone else on the planet.
My statements are founded in science and my own experience over the last eleven months. They’re the farthest thing from “rash.”
Completely unwarranted attack, Griff. Your anecdote isn’t a counterargument to what sara suggested. You don’t represent the people she’s talking about; you’ve done your research. Are you everyone that has read, is reading, and will read this article? No.
“We’re the smart ones, and we’ll live longer and healthier than anyone else on the planet.”
Congratulations.
“My statements are founded in science and my own experience over the last eleven months.” As Erin writes below, a lot of the science on nutrition takes a long time to pan out. I bet a lot of your 30 books were based one epidemiological studies, most of which do anything but provide proof contributing to the efficacy of a particular way of eating.
*shrug* Whatever, “empty”. In addition to the science, I’ve also got the proof of my own experience – so if you choose to eat things that will poison you, that is so beyond “not my problem” that it’s not even in this solar system.
The scientific experiment of the last sixty years – of low-fat high-carb eating and health – has FAILED. The science of the last sixty years shows this conclusively. Our grandparents and their parents and their grandparents, all the way back to Grok, ate the way that Primal people do now, and they all lived into their 80s and 90s, usually in at least decent health. Our parents, on the other hand, ate the low-fat high-carb way, and started dropping like flies in their 40s and 50s from heart disease, diabetes, cancer, and stroke. Hmmm. I see a connection there.
There is zero proof that this newfangled low-fat high-carb method of eating works, and a metric asston of proof that it doesn’t, if you’ll open your eyes and LOOK.
And if you want non-epidemiological studies, start with the Eades’ Protein Power, Anthony Colpo’s The Great Cholesterol Con, and Taubes’ Good Calories, Bad Calories. All of them are chock-full of peer-reviewed, non-epidemiological studies. That should cheer you up.
Woah, Mark, sorry; did I catch you on the wrong day?
I’m not sure what you’re arguing here. I never criticized what was written above, nor did sara. She just said this: be a little critical before you just accept it as truth.
Despite your inability to properly read my posts, I’ll bite.
-“Primal” people? Can you define what this means?
– 3 books, out of 30, that’s 10% of your books.
“Our grandparents and their parents and their grandparents, all the way back to Grok, ate the way that Primal people do now, and they all lived into their 80s and 90s, usually in at least decent health. Our parents, on the other hand, ate the low-fat high-carb way, and started dropping like flies in their 40s and 50s from heart disease, diabetes, cancer, and stroke. Hmmm. I see a connection there.”
You think the life expectancy of our parents was 40 YEARS LOWER than that of our grandparents? lol wut? Crazy much?
“Our grandparents and their parents and their grandparents, all the way back to Grok, ate the way that Primal people do now, and they all lived into their 80s and 90s, usually in at least decent health. Our parents, on the other hand, ate the low-fat high-carb way, and started dropping like flies in their 40s and 50s from heart disease, diabetes, cancer, and stroke. Hmmm. I see a connection there.”
Primal, schmimal. The primal diets may have been great for people who were active on the farm or the factory all day, but these days most people are anything but. The other consideration is the fact that everything is heavily processed. Even produce for goodness sake! For every healthy new diet that becomes trendy (in the sense of eating better—not losing weight) there’s five-gazillion different processed foods out there and most of the population in the US is living it.
And as far as that low-fat/high-carb diet goes, my father-in-law is ALIVE, because his once “primal” diet (high protein, high fat) got changed when he hit his 40s/50s to the low-fat, high carb diet you are speaking of. His father has a heavy-duty heart attack at 65. FIL had a very mild one at 62 and is doing great now at 70 (granted he needs to get out of the house, but that’s a whole other issue).
I don’t agree grains are evil. However, I bet they are very overused in diets. Anything can be horrible for you if that’s *all* you eat. Balance is important.
That said, I plan to be switching our bread to Trader Joe’s Quinoa bread this year. It’s relatively inexpensive compared to the higher quality breads (like Pepperidge Farm or Arnold), it’s packed with nutrients, and it’s quiet tasty and soft.
Thank you! The internet is a good place to get random ideas to make you think. HOwever, it should not be a source of hard and fast rules for anything. Go to the sources, whether diet, history, religion or politics~ick, for your information. And by the by, doctors, nurses & all people in general are characterized both by the diligent and the slackers. It’s our~sick~ so called ‘health’care reimbursement system that waits until people get ill in order to recieve funding to treat. See: Congress subcommittees. The system need to change to a true HEALTHcare system that promotes health~not just treat the illness that errupts from our poor uninformed eating & lifestyle choices.
Listen to this person – do your own research before buying into what anyone else tells you. I am a dietitian and there is absolutely NO research out there from any real source that supports or can even give you a reason not to eat gluten or grains unless you have a gluten intolerance or allergy. Yes, of course a salad full of veggies will have more vitamins, minerals, and even fiber (though it will have different vitamins and minerals), but that just proves this guy couldn’t find a better argument so he wrote something that is obviously true. Also, how far out of date is this guy? The government does not even use a pyramid any more. It’s now a plate because the government did not want people eating so many grains and the pyramid sent the wrong message. Search REAL nutrition journals, such as the Journal of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics or Food and Nutrition for answers to his questions. Do your own research and talk to a Registered Dietitian yourself!
Well, one of the things I think about is how sick we are today. We’ve got all these government recommendations that are supposed to keep a person healthy and they don’t work.
Don’t even mention FDA, which is a throughly corrupt organization.
I will see what benefit I get from avoiding grains. That will be proof or no proof to me.
I follow a food plan free of grains and other “conventional” starches. I’m a nurse practitioner and have a dietician friend that eats the same way. My husband is a physician and sees no need for grains in the diet either. NOTHING I was taught in “actual classes” said that grains were needed for good health; it was just part of the goverment generated food pyramid. Many things we were taught in school were based on tradition, not hard science.
I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject lately. So far, I think the Gary Taubes books are the best for presenting the actual science and a great discussion of the history and the evolution politically of the “low-fat, high carb” diet being supposedly healthy. It is quite eye-opening of an indictment of public health policies being controlled by a few powerful researchers, supported by pharma and big food industries. Biologically humans should be eating meat and vegetables, and perhaps a few fruits. The biochemical reactions that digest food and produce energy and fat in our bodies are based on it. Yes, our bodies do adapt to higher levels of carbs, but at a great cost.
And then you can look at the flip side, the failure of these high carb, low fat diets to work – diabetes at an all time high, obesity at an all time high. Simply restricting calories but continuing to eat high carb, even supposedly healthy whole grain high carb, DOES NOT WORK. And the biochemical studies show us why. We were designed to be meat/flesh eaters. I wish it wasn’t true, I was veggie for a long time, but watching my blood sugar gradually rising, my BP gradually rising, my weight gradually rising despite eating healthy and exercising, made me look at it openly. And it is WORKING. I have lost 20 lbs and FEEL more energetic. And I was not sick before. Really, do the research with and open mind and you will be astonished and angry at what you find.
Because anything taught in “actual classes” is automatically true? And anything online is inherently untrustworthy? That’s a facile presumption. Are my free online classes from MIT educationally worthless because they’re free and online?
As was pointed out elsewhere — medical professionals do get some nutritional information, but it (clearly!) isn’t good information. So much for the vaunted supremacy of the classroom.
The internet is chock-full of scientific, medical, and educational goodness. You don’t have to go into horrible debt to educate yourself — any halfway decent autodidact will get twice the education of someone just sitting in a class, uncritically taking in and regurgitating the answers on demand.
So, as a 2nd year medical student, I’d just like to say I had 2 months of clinical nutrition. And if you’re appalled at that, you should also be appalled by the fact that we covered immunology in 2 weeks, microbiology in a month and a half, and genetics in a month. (Although I’d also like to impress upon you the intensity and amount of material that is covered in every hour of class time. Undergrad this ain’t.) There is so much to learn in medical school that it’s impossible to sit in a classroom and absorb it all in the four years we have. That’s why a huge bulk of our learning takes place on the floors during our second two years of training. It’s unfair to say that just because it sounds like we haven’t had much class time spent in a particular field, doesn’t mean we come out unqualified boobs (though from the looks of these posts, I might find quite a few people who disagree with me on that).
I will freely admit that doctors (as far as I’ve observed, and from what I’ve gathered talking to a close friend who is a clinical nutritionist) don’t consult nutritionists often enough and are, in fact, underinformed about the current research in nutrition. However, if you’ve ever looked at the peer-reviewed literature on nutrition, you would see that it is often conflicting, and most real, firm evidence takes a very long time to pan out. I would also point out that we’re taught time and again that that eating less, eating less junk (in general), and exercising are really the best ways to improve your health (and for the love of God, stop smoking!). So might I be so bold as to suggest that your health improvements are simply due to the fact that you’ve changed to a healthier lifestyle overall? (That it’s not just the grains?)
Erin,
Hi, I’m also a medical student and was wondering your thoughts on Primal Blueprint, if you’re doing it, and if so how it’s fit into the crazy schedules we have?
Hope you don’t mind me contacting you. I just found this site yesterday and I wanted some input from someone who understands the demands of med school. Thanks! 🙂 dhknobe@gmail.com
Having the letters MD, RN, etc after your name or being a nutritionist, or even being a doctor who is well-versed in nutrition is all fine and dandy. In order to truly understand nutrition, you have to be well versed in the digestive processes as well.
Scenario:
You have a plant-based diet, that is low/no fat and high carb, largely based around grains. This diet has been shown to reverse heart disease, diabetes, cancer, arthritis, yada, yada, yada.
You have grain free diets (there are several versions, not just the one mentioned in this blog). These diets have been shown to reverse heart disease, cancer, diabetes, arthritis, auto-immune disorders, asthma, allergies (food and environmental), adhd, autism, yada, yada, yada.
You have two diets, that are on complete opposite ends of the spectrum, that have yielded similar results. Why is that?
Because you can’t have your cake and eat it too. The body isn’t capable of digesting animal protein and grains at the same time. They require two completely different digestive processes, and your body will always go for the grains first because they’re the single most difficult food source to digest. Then your digestive system gets confused, because it has to switch gears to digest the animal protein. The typical American diet constantly mixes the two, which confuses and overloads the digestive system and it gets burned out. When you continually stress out your digestive system, it will then cause serious damage to your digestive tract(this damage can be fixed, if you can guess how…).
You can’t have animal protein AND grains. You will kill yourself, eventually, if you do. This is why both types of diets yield the same results. Grain free diets are much more compatible with people who have gastrointestinal problems. In addition to that, grain free diets are much more compatible with people who’s health problems are *caused* by gastrointestinal problems. Yes, gastrointestinal problems can have very serious, very far reaching effects, including making you susceptible to things like cancer, heart disease, auto-immune diseases and even schizophrenia.
Oh, one more thing. Fruit uses a third digestive process, so it should never be combined with animal protein and/or grains. And veggies require very little effort to digest, and they aid the digestive process, so you can eat them with anything.
Raven, are you implying that your digestive tract can somehow figure out what it’s digesting, and change its chemistry accordingly? By what mechanism does it accomplish such a feat? Where did you hear all this business about gastrointestinal confusion? I’d like to hear what these different “digestive processes” are. Does your stomach have different acids that it secretes if it somehow knows it’s eating a vegetable, as opposed to a fruit? Does your intestinal lining change the way it absorbs nutrients based on what you’ve just eaten? I see many wild claims in your post without a shred of explanation or evidence. Please, correct me. If I’m wrong, I’d love to know. That’s what science is all about!
It is well established that carbohydrates push up insulin levels, some more than others, but they all do it, to a level where it is chronically high. This is not good for anyone. But because of genetic variation in people, some handle it better than others, so some appear not to have any issues with it. But over the course of a lifetime, it is cumulative damage and it is NEVER beneficial.
Hi Mark!
My family has been on paleo for some time now and I can’t begin to tell you how many amazing turnarounds in health we have all experienced, you know, those little irritating ‘things’ that you just tend to put up with!
We turned to paleo after several years of research on my daughter’s health issue, an issue that was not addressed by any of the health professionals we visited here in Australia. We tried all sorts of dietary changes, but paleo was the one that effected the quickest and most amazing results.
Just recently my husband had his annual medical check up (for no other reason than it’s something that he has always done!). His doctor told him that whatever he was doing, he should keep doing! Interestingly, when he told him that his diet was now grain-free and processed-food-free, his face lit up and he told him that he should spread the news. If only it were that easy!
I am a teacher and I feel a certain despair as I watch children exist on pre-packaged junk! And let me tell you, their behaviour matches the amount of junk they eat! Some children have as many as six bars of chocolate in their lunch boxes, often in place of actual food. School canteens here in Australia are nothing short of a national disgrace. Time will prove that we are on the right track. Sadly, it may be too late for these kids!
You’re close, so close, but yet so so far. Grain and animal proteins all contain amino acids, of which there are 20 essentials, which are all the same. The only difference is the order, which control protein folding/morphology.
You can eat grain/meat/fruit in the same meal, and digest them all. Well, by digest them all, I mean digest the meat and fruit because it’s hard to digest proline-rich amines and fiber in grains, so you won’t really be digesting much of that… But good try.
Vegetables are one of the hardest food groups to digest, for all mammals. Herbivores have extremely long digestive tracts in order to extract all of the nutrients from the cellulose-rich vegetables, which are hard to break down.
Meat is easy to digest, because it’s just animal tissue. Starchy vegetables like rice and potatoes are easy to digest as well.
I applaud the effort, but please read some more before misleading innocent newbies about what their meal composition can and cannot consist of.
I’m an RN. Here’s a little info for you. Take care.
“Phytic acid, aka phytate, aka IP-6, is one of the most powerful antioxidants found in foods. Some nutritionally-oriented cancer researchers think that IP-6 is probably the most powerful natural anti-cancer sustances. IP-6 is found in grains, beans, nuts & seeds. Wheat is especially high in this cancer fighter.”
“Phytic acid works differently than other antioxidants. Most antioxidants circulate in the bloood, stopping free radicals there. Phytate has the unique ability to work inside your cells, stopping free radicals that are formed duringthe normal process of cell metabolism.”
I think ingested antioxidants don’t hold a candle to our endogenous antioxidants, and in fact researchers have shown shoveling in the plant stuff down-regulates production of the home-grown gold.
Catalase, superoxide dismutase and glutathione peroxidase are local antioxidant enzymes produced where they are needed, when they are needed by a cell which needs them to run its power plants safely.
Additionally, I think it’s folly to broadly paint anti-oxidants as “good” and free radicals as “bad.”
When mitochrondia get hit by enough free radicals it’s a signal to increase production of our own antioxidants.
When poster G writes “Phytate has the unique ability to work inside your cells, stopping free radicals that are formed during the normal process of cell metabolism” — methinks that’s not a good thing
Mehitabel is right, and House you’re usually so smart on your show…
Free radicals are made every single time you consume food and process it. Carbohydrate metabolism actually increases free radical proliferation due to the ratio of NADH:FADH2 required for the electron transport chain. And yet the Okinawans of Japan have a high-carb diet and live quite awhile, without much free-radical induced aging, so it is possible that natural free-radical production from organic-style starchy vegetables is NOT an evil thing. That being said, I don’t think that it’s an issue if phytate works as an antioxidant against natural free radicals – it would just mean lower production of endogenous free radicals would be necessary. That being said….
There ARE some antioxidant properties, but you can get antioxidants from veggies without the metal-chelating effects of phytic acid in grains, which were already nutritionally sparse to begin with..
I am a metabolic biochemist and as you will be aware, there are many potent antioxidants stored within foods, the most potent being polyphenols found in cocoa and green tea. These have been proven in many medical journals to be of the most potent. I even personally conducted a studeny which found they were effective against glioblastoma brain tumour cells. So, the point of my reply?! We definitely shouldn’t be pointing to grains where cancer prevention is concerned. As discussed by Mark Sisson and by myself later on this feed, grains cuasing chronically high insulin levels indirectly leads to a whole host of ilnesses including cancer itself as a result of of ischaemic vascular disease.
Todd, perhaps you should do a little research yourself. Start with Good Calories-Bad Calories by Gary Taubes…investigate the entire bibliography and substantiate your stand on grains point-by-point; a tip… you will NOT be able to do it. Historical scientific evidence supports that agricultural societies have steadily declined in health and increased in obesity and diseases of Western Culture. You, like so many other absolutely refuse to admit you have been hoodwinked by the government, Ancel Keyes….must I continue? I think not.
People in Asia/Japan (where I live) eat rice/carbs at almost every meal, live the longest of anyone everywhere (Japan has the highest longevity rates) and seem to have very few health problems. Of course, lung and colon cancer are high, but generally, carbs/starches are a large part of their daily diet. So…..I’m just saying: this is all a bit confusing. How does anyone explain the discrepancy of an Asian diet with carbs still produce such long lifespans?
Japan eats a lot of fish (omega-3), and eats many more natural forms of carbohydrates such as rice and sweet potatoes, which are starchy vegetables and are not toxic grains chock-full of antinutrients and gluten (which is an issue even if you’re not gluten sensitive due to zonulin increasing intestinal permeability).
High carb diets inherently cause more free radical production during cellular metabolism which may explain the higher rates of lung/colon cancer (or maybe it’s smoking/pollution? I haven’t looked at that data or other factors). Asians therefore may eat similarly in terms of carbohydrate intake to Americans at the moment, but the QUALITY of the food is much different. The omega-3 rich seafood focus may be offsetting the overuse of omega-6 rich, inflammation-promoting vegetable oils (which both cultures use too often now).
The more active and lean you are, the better your insulin sensitivity and therefore ability to adapt to high loads of carbohydrates. The combination of quality carbs (especially traditionally prepared by soaking which removes phytic acid) + lots of walking may be a uniquely healthful part of Japanese longevity.
Japanese and Chinese also eat stripped rice and usually not brown rice. So in the context of phytic acid, it’s not the same as whole grains and brown rice which are pushed here in the US as the preferred types. Well, this is what I have heard- that the anti-nutrients are mostly found n the casing of the whole grains and brown rice. Funny I have a chart from a study published in The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition and although brown rice produces less of an insulin spike, it’s really not much lower than white rice. So we have been told to prefer brown rice, but as far as I am concerned, it a load of bull. It really does not do much as far as insulin and is more restrictive in absorbing minerals- minerals being one of the main reasons to eat brown rice. I am not debating with anyone here, but since Asia and rice were brought up under a post that mentions the anti-nutrients in grains and rice I thought I would mention these things. As far as my diet I have a couple of main rules. Anything good for bones and teeth is good. Anything bad for teeth and bones cannot be good. I do Paleo but I add pastured butter and cheese. Before this, I was eating little meat and no eggs, no cheese, no fish, and no butter. My teeth feel a lot stronger now. I can tell the difference.
Hmmm whell it seems that all the no-grainers are a bit sarcastic and cold. I knew guy who ate just like this and he was a pure Power Trip 24/7; he was a big and lean healthy-looking guy, but not mentally!! VERY anxious and Bipolar. I just want to say that grains actually increase and maintain seratoninn levels (the happy chemical) while meat will actually lower it somewhat. And everyone will die one day. I TRULY believe that eating bread will NOT poison you, trust me. 😉 I have tried this no-grain diet and it made me VERY bipolar. But I’ve realised its not about how long you live, but HOW you live. I would rather focus on being happy and healthy so that I can help others do the same! Instead of obsessing about my diet. And btw I am a very healthy lady, have always been on the slim side, and very happily eat my way through the high whole grains and fruits, low meat diet 😉 and I understand that what is not good for 1 percent of the population with celiac disease is pretty beneficial to the rest of the population
Bipolar disorder isn’t caused by genetics. It’s a MENTAL disorder and technically ANYONE is a risk to be diagnosed with it.
Genetics do SUPPOSEDLY create a higher risk to develop in those whose families have known cases of mental illnesses. Results linking it to purely genetics have never been completely conclusive due to never being able to replicate results.
It’s just one of the few items that can affect and cause the development in individuals. Others causes are psychological being from chemical imbalances to structural imperfections of the brain and could even include damage caused from drug use. The other being environmental(Where they grew up, parental style, traumatic events in past)
The biggest thing one needs to learn to do when they are diagnosed with manic-depressive disorder is regulation. You learn to probably regulate everything. You get into a routine. Any rapid changes to these routines can cause a downward or upward spiral into mania or depression. Nutrition is one of most important factors! The fact that hunger and anxiety both cause the same exact symptoms on your bodies even shows this.
So yes, food can in fact have an impact on someone who is living with bipolar disorder without the proper nutrition or a rather sudden diet change can cause you to have an episode.
My knowledge comes from the fact that I, myself, am manic depressive and have taken classes to allow me to learn how to properly handle my situation. Through that learning and understanding, I am able to go without my medication, which is I’m highly against.
Please, educate yourself before being a dick online or someone else may just come along correct you.
Drugs like opium also make you feel good. gluten and some of the other proteins in wheat and grans can actually fit into the receptors in the brain for this. Perhaps not such a good “high” after all. There actually have been a few studies where schizophrenia symptoms were reduced by a gluten free diet. You should really look and understand the biochemistry of what happens when carbs are eaten at a high rate, and what chronically high insulin levels do to your body over a lifetime. It isn’t pretty and sometimes it is subtle so you don’t see it until you have diabetes or some other health damager.
You bring up a very good point that is outside of the general discussion here. That’s ok, I will comment on it.
We are ALL going to die one day. Whether you believe that is good or bad makes no difference.
YOU ARE GOING TO DIE. I see that as a good thing, because I know there is a spirit inside us that lives forever. Death is the end of our Earthly existence, but not our endless existence.
We are just so distracted by this modern sick society. We are taught to FEAR DEATH.
The point is: Living healthy in this existence is better then being sick and suffering greatly in this existence.
I have no clue if this approach to diet will lengthen my life. In my view that’s not the point. The point is making the best of this existence. Good health will make it better.
Sigh.. will these people ever stop with these posts? I’ll try to be nice just for you Lauren…
Carbohydrates do increase serotonin synthesis. This is fairly benign, ala Thanksgiving dinner sleepyness/contentment. Yet you forgot to mention that serotonin and dopamine are antagonistic, and that upping serotonin will lower your dopamine, which can cause depression and mobility issues. Sounds like a catch-22 of depression with low serotonin or dopamine, eh? But how about balancing the see-saw so that both are in moderate amounts so that you aren’t depressed?
Bread WILL poison you, it’s just a matter of dose. A little bit of phytic acid can be beneficial (from vegetables), but a lot of it (from grains) is a definite negative. I don’t care what you believe, show me the double-blind placebo-controlled study that proves what you believe. I am focusing on being happy by not obsessing about diet beyond “grains, legumes, and most dairy sucks”. It’s not that much to ask.
As for your bipolar response to the diet… I’d need to know details. There is a low-carb flu that can occur in the first 1-2 weeks due to metabolic down-regulation of carb metabolism (and up-reg of fat). There is anecdotal/almost-close-enough-to-be-true evidence of withdrawal symptoms from wheat restriction due to exorphins (see post: is wheat addictive).
You may be slim, but people would be slimmer if they improved their insulin sensitivity and up-regulated their fat metablism by eating more fat and fewer carbs. 2/3 of america does not share your slimness, so please keep a much more open mind in the future and try to help people rather than touting your own results as beneficial for all. Lastly, you missed the part about gluten sensitivity in 30% of people and zonulin release potentially causing autoimmunity in 100% of people, didn’tcha?
It’s fine if you aren’t as passionate about nutrition research as I am. But for your own sake, if you don’t want to look it all up, take my advice and follow the diet for your life, tweaking starchy carb intake with activity level and leanness. Good hunting.
“BTW, paleolithic tribes did not live past 35 years of age and did not live long enough to develop heart disease and colon cancer.”
Maybe because of the paleolithic tribes diet their bones appear to be 35 years old being compared to modern mans bones. Perhaps they lived much longer and healthier then we do today.
Not even just carbon-dating; more like tree rings, IIRC. Your bones’ internal structure is something that changes over time, no? But you have a record of your whole life in there. For instance, calcium absorption gets more difficult as you age, leading to more brittle bones, and your inner bone structure is also impacted by early environment, leaving clues to it. Likewise, a rough guide is teeth; while there is some variance (both my 12yr molars and wisdom teeth were 3 years “late”), on average, certain teeth come in at certain ages. If some corpse still has baby teeth, or never developed wisdom teeth, it’s unlikely they died of old age.
Another note: bones don’t “appear” younger than they are… they can appear OLDER, if you are nutritionally deficient or spend a lot of time in outer space (because they don’t build up well unless they have the stress of gravity playing on them), but not younger.
It’s untrue that paleolithics NEVER lived past 35, but it’s also untrue that they had long life expectancies, even if you took out deaths at birth. Why? Because they didn’t know what we know about say, infectious diseases. They didn’t have antibiotics or immunizations to prevent or kill of pathogens; they didn’t recognize that regular bathing is a good thing; regular handwashing before meals or medical treatments wasn’t even thought of before the past few centuries. Hell, they didn’t even have toilet paper yet, or flush toilets, and in may cases probably didn’t realize the difference between potable and unpotable water; drank right out of rivers, which they also shat in.
They DID lead a more active lifestyle though, with exercise but less back-breaking labor than farming, and more diverse foods; that’s just a given when the option is “put all your effort into farming for a handful of plants, or hunt and gather for anything you can find”.
Another difference between hunters and gatherers and agriculturists; population and life stages. Hunters and gatherers, because of lower caloric intake, have fewer children, and more years in between them, whereas agricultural families tend to, between nutrition and necessity, pop out a massive number of children and then the mom ends up menopausal by 30, assuming she survived having a dozen babies.. which she may well not have, considering they didn’t even realize they should wash their hands before handling the newborn or the still-bleeding mama. All of which is pretty nasty, but not how modern developed countries work; most of the overpopulation issues are in countries like India or China, where there are large poor, rural segments of the population that pop out babies like crazy.
It is true that there was a decline in height and a rise in problems with say, the spine, with transition to agriculture; but this has long since evened out in developed countries especially, as framing practices became more efficient, and was always more likely to effect the peon farmer than say, his chief. The main thing that’s reversing it now, adding obesity to our health problems among other things, is the rise of processed sugar in the general diet (which is also rotting the teeth at a much faster rate to boot).
Really, ANY diet is going to be healthier if it just cuts out the nutritionally unnecessary sugar and adds some activity like gentle walking or swimming – things the more active of our ancestors did on a daily basis.
Longevity data tend to be distorted by factoring in infant mortality rates (and likely other things affecting these rates). Prehistoric people lived longer than 30-35 years, on average. They foraged and ate a wide variety of things, with little competition for resources. Agriculture was probably one of the worst things to happen to humans, especially women. Diet and life span took a nose dive after that.
This is untrue. there was fierce competition among human ancestors, and if you read up on evolution, you can see that humans indeed had shorter life spans years ago.
Little competition? Maybe during the population bottleneck period, but I assure you, there is PLENTY of evidence of prehistoric warfare; wounded bones tell no lies, particularly when they show markings suspiciously similar to the tool marks of the tribe next door…
Old-school agriculture IS bad for women, though, but only because high calorie intake from grains lets their bodies fatten up and thus trigger more frequent estrus and less frequent miscarriages… they have more babies, in fewer years, than those leading hunter-gatherer or modern “western” lifestyles. In undeveloped regions (including prehistoric times), this led to a lot of deaths from childbirth or complications thereafter, as they in many cases didn’t understand what made for proper post-birth care of the mother, and it did leave women awfully haggard, as anyone who’s been through pregnancy even once could predict. Pregnancy is hard on the body as a general rule.
Average lifespan in fact went down slightly with agriculture, but this is because they had more births; and without modern medicine, more infant mortality. Skews the average a little.
Yes, the anthropological studies look at the remains and can analyse things like height and weight, relative health of the bones, etc. Once agriculture was introduced, which was still thousands of years before medical advances, the stature of the people became much shorter, the bones are more lifely to have malnutritional deformities, the teeth to have cavities, and signs of heart disease start appearing, and these are in populations with similar lifespans.
Hey Mark, new to you, but like what you are saying about no grains, they have never made me feel good. What else to eat besides fruits a veggies, Maybe this brocitis will go away. see ya.
Steak has never and will never be good for you and is NOT nutrient dense. Just like the dairy that Mark bashes, it also is full of chemicals and comes from the same factories. In addition, steak is high in saturated fats.
Saturated fats = clogged arteries = heart attacks. That doesn’t change, but actually increases, from cutting out whole grains.
I guess you never got to those parts of the blog explaining that grain-fed chemical-laden non-organic meat with unbalanced Omega 3:6 ratios and man-made trans fats wasn’t part of Grok’s meal plan, or the guides on Fats and Saturated Fats debunking your concerns – Paleolithic humans ate a lot of saturated fats since animal fats in their internal organs and fat reserves are mostly made of it. (our fat reserves are also made out of saturated fats – so… whener you force your body to take out and burn fat… OMG! that would mean weight loss causes heart disease, and to think I was planning on gradually releasing 30lbs of saturated fats into my system – that would have probably killed me I’m sure of it!
True, Grok may have died at an average age of 35, but it wasn’t from a heart attack – by that logic, meat-eating cheetahs would also be dropping dead from heart attacks – those guys don’t watch their saturated fat intake nearly enough.
Don’t believe me? Inuit tribes have been following the Primal/Caveman diet ever since they settled the Arctic. (apparently, gently heated seal blood tea tastes really good mixed with some raw seal flab, which can also be used as a cooking oil and lamp oil) They had no heart problems – until they began adopting Western-style grain/sugar diets…
How did that Atkins guy die? Probably from following a low-carb diet that wasn’t strict enough with avoiding man-made trans fats, out-of-season and processed foods while ignoring a balanced intake of polyunsaturated fats… and does the Atkins diet even encourage proper, healthy forms of exercise such as occasional sprints to flex those arterial heart valve muscles?
Wait a minute…. a simple search reveals that Dr. Atkins did not even die of a heart attack like you say – he died in a similar way our healthy high-fat eating ancestors might have : slipped and fell on ice, got head trauma and died.
@mm: There has been debate as to whether Atkins actually had some heart problems, but even if he did, who says it had to be because of his diet? He may have cut carbs, but who’s also to say that the meat he ate was healthy? (I don’t think sausages and bacon, for example, or good with all their chemicals and salt. It’s just not natural meat as one would find in nature).
Also, ‘average’ lifespan statistics are misleading. I think our modern lifespan is so high due to low birth mortality rates.. Grok’s babies may have died early, skewing our interpretation on how old they may have actually lived. Just a thought.
some people do fine with just fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds. look up 80 / 10 / 10
from reading up on it, it seems really healthy except for two things.
1. they tend to report a reduced libido.that makes me wonder what else is going on hormonally.
2. theyre all really skinny! i dont know if its hormonal, lack of protein or what, but ive never seen a skinnier bunch. Its great if thats what you want or if you dont care. they dont seem to suffer for it either, but it does make me wonder whats going on there.
For my Sustainability class my group is supposed to brainstorms ways we can cut back on food consumption on campus (ASU). One proposition will be to cut outs grains and sugars from campus. consuming only nutrient-dense food will derive undistorted satiation, and ultimately require less calories.
“if your average unhealthy person were to ask for the top three things to avoid in order to get healthy, I would tell them to stop smoking, to stop drinking their calories (as soda or juice), and to stop eating grains.”
You wouldn’t have no added or processed sugar as a top 3?
I like the way Mark presented his Top 3 because many people think they’re eating healthy even while they’re drinking juice. While some foods with added sugars may at least provide a tiny bit of nutrition, sugary drinks are really at the bottom of that list.
While the avid readers of MDA already know this, I think it would be more helpful to newbies who still follow CW.
agreed but the statement was if I had to tell people three things to a healthier lifestyle. No one was suggesting that just because you don’t smoke it means your healthy.
Any number of things could make it into the top 3 on any given day. Of course it depends on the audience, too. As Kristin J touched on above, for your average guy or gal on the street just cutting out soda would be a major step in the right direction. But, yes, of course, processed sugar is right up there (and soda sort of covers or implies that).
Well, no, it depends on where the sugar comes from. If it’s from corn syrup or sorghum, then OK. Sugarcane’s a whole different critter.
I think it’d have to be a top four suggestions. Because sugar, no matter where it comes from, is more and more implicated in metabolic syndrome and diabetes due to its fructose content. It also operates as an antinutrient.
The artificial sweetners in “diet” sodas are just as bad or worse: they actually have been indicated in increasing your DESIRE for sugars and sweets, meaning you’ll consume more overall. Additionally, some of them have been correlated with higher cancer risk, though as with anything else relating to cancer, it’s difficult to pin it all on one thing, as environment as a whole plays into it, as does genetics.
If you have to have something sweet and liquidy, I recommend a juicy piece of fruit. Lower fructose content, and no potential carcinogens. 🙂
You can not change your genetic makeup. Plain and simple. Show me the SCIENCE to back it up, I’ll show you the SCIENCE that you can not! If you could we would not have any health problems.
Where did Mark ever say that you could change your genetic makeup? He’s talking about OPTIMIZING what you have – which means not eating things that we weren’t meant to eat, such as grains.
The human metabolism changes all the time. Or more specifically, what your body does with food is much more variable than the ancient signals and cravings that drive eating patterns before you put anything in your mouth. It’s too simplistic to say we would have no health problems if we could change things.
The body changes its own makeup with epigenetics, but we can take it even a step further with current genetic engineering. One example is the glow in the dark bunny with fluorescent jellyfish genes: http://www.ekac.org/gfpbunny.html#gfpbunnyanchor
Some people treat paleo as a narrative habit for good health but don’t overlook other help from science, while others treat paleo as a religion that must not be questioned.
I’m not sure if Primal Blueprint dieters believe in the glycemic index, because it is something produced by contemporary science, but it ranks all carbohydrate foods based on how fast they digest and absorb, which relates to how much insulin will be produced. I believe Nezzy is way off base; sugar will spike blood sugar and insulin quite quickly because it is a simple carbohydrate (high on the glycemic index) while whole grains will cause a slower rise in insulin. There’s more about it here: http://www.glycemicindex.com/ . I’d be interested to hear what a PBer has to say about this, since fruits are on the glycemic too.
As for sugar vs. grains – in the long run, there’s no difference. Carbs are carbs – ALL carbs turn into sugar when your body processes them. Carbs are NOT GOOD for you. Grains and sugar – there’s no difference. They’re both bad. They both spike insulin and blood sugar levels. Avoid them both.
If what you say, that “all carbs are carbs and are bad for you,” then you wouldn’t be able to eat the salad and fruits that the PB is so full of – they are mostly carbohydrate, but high in fiber and so digest more slowly and are easier on the pancreas as it produces insulin. The glycemic index is based in science – there are almost 4,000 articles that mention it in pubmed alone (and yes, I know some of them are probably swayed by funding from certain sources, but strongly doubt that every single one is). It is true that a PB-like diet can help control diabetes, and this is because it is low in simple carbohydrates like processed grains and added sugars. An insulin “spike” happens because simple sugars move to the blood faster, and it is true that x amount of sugar and x amount of a whole grain will take the same amount of insulin to cover, but the whole grain will not cause the insulin to be released as quickly and is therefore easier for the pancreas to deliver. I would be interested to hear your response to this concept.
Also, that link didn’t work for me – do you have an alternate?
I only eat leafy greens and other non-starchy carb vegetables. That means I rarely (if ever) eat fruit – it’s too high in sugar and it spikes me the same as candy does. I’m a type II diabetic, and my sugars remain under control only when I avoid starchy and sugary foods – including fruit and grains. I rarely ingest more than 50 grams of carbs (total, including fiber grams) per day.
The glycemic index is nonsense. Try using the glycemic index test with ten different people, and you’ll get ten wildly different responses to the same food. If the glycemic index was correct, those ten different responses would fall within a small margin of variation. They don’t. Every time you test another group of ten people, you get another set of ten wildly different results. The glycemic hypothesis does not stand up to evidence, because it’s not repeatable (and therefore not reliable). Therefore, it’s NOT scientific.
Also, it doesn’t matter how slowly or how quickly a carb turns into sugar in the body – it still turns into sugar and it still stimulates an insulin response. As long as there’s sugar in the bloodstream, the insulin response will continue to happen. Longer time periods for sugar release are actually MORE harmful in some ways.
The glycemic index is bunk. The main idea behind the Primal Blueprint is to minimize having insulin running around in your body; it’s toxic to your system. The glycemic index ignores this very important fact. For more on this, get the original “Protein Power” book by Drs. Michael and Mary Dan Eades, and read the section on insulin. You’ll be shocked.
The reason the link didn’t work is because the MDA comment form included the parenthesis on the end of the link for some reason. It doesn’t belong there. Go to your browser after you click on the link and delete the parenthesis at the end of the link, and then it should work fine.
Hi, I can’t eat fruit except for bananas as it triggers off my hot flushes while in menopause. I am not even 50 yet, as I started early but any sugar or carb (grain based) sets them off and I feel unwell on grains, sugar, nuts, seeds etc. Since getting rid of all grains, sugar, seeds, nuts etc I have felt so good. I included Sauerkraut into my diet and my bloating has gone. Good luck with what you are doing 🙂
William Frierson
Griff,
You do realize that your body manufactures glucose from the remnants of fatty acid and protein metabolism; it’s a pathway called gluconeogenesis. This is necessary as there are several tissues that require glucose and ONLY glucose, red blood cells being one of those types.
I too am a type II diabetic, and as I’m still trying to lose abdominal fat (lost 60 lbs in 3 months, still trying to lose 20-30 lb) I am eating VLCD with my doc doing blood tests every 2 weeks for electrolytes.
But my blood sugar is well controlled (HbA1c went from 10.8 to 5.7 in 4 months). I eat very low carb to stay in ketosis, and my blood sugar hovers between 106 and 85, most of my readings are in the 90’s after an hour of walking.
BTW, my doctor and the diabetes coordinator were just going to use the standard ADA treatment regimen. The doc wanted me off insulin and is very supportive. She can’t argue w/ results.
I’m just waiting for my cardiologist/lipidologist to go through the roof. My last NMR showed increases in lipid particles and decreases in lipid particle size. I’ve read that there is an increase when you first start losing weight, but I know that some genotypes can’t handle high fat diets. I am praying that my next NMR shows improvement.
Bill
Sarah
Thanks for your thoughtful and open response – I can tell you’re really passionate about this stuff, and have read a lot. The website you sent almost leaves me with more questions than before…
I think we agree on several points (you, I and the article):
-Americans eat too many carbs, especially refined ones and added sugars
-Americans don’t think of their diet as the first place to look to address health concerns – I wish more would follow in your steps and look at what they eat before popping pills
-Insulin has two purposes – to help us use, and to store, energy
-The idea of tracking your own blood glucose levels after meals is great, just might be expensive and hard to access
Some things you and the article mention lead me to more questions, however – I can get on board with not wanting too much insulin circulating for too long, but I don’t think you can go so far as to dub it “toxic.” Our bodies don’t make substances that are toxic; we just force them to make too much of some things based on our lifestyles. Our bodies need LDL cholesterol and triglycerides; the problem that comes is when they are too high or out of ratio. The article makes this point well, “No matter what anyone tells you about the healthfulness of a food, you can check it out yourself.” And I think – the more I read and learn – that this message is more important than any: some people just respond differently to different foods. Perhaps the variability blood glucose in the groups tested on the glycemic index (and I will have to take a closer look at the research before I concede that it is total “bunk”) means that eating low works for some people, but not others (for whatever reason; I am sure that genetics and probably activity level play in here).
The last thing I’ll say that I think the author of the article doesn’t explain very well is why, if he doesn’t believe that sugar and grains are any different, “I would be the last person to argue that a diet rich in whole grains is worse for you than one made up mostly of Sugar Frosted Flakes and french fries.” He goes on to say “the fewer the carbohydrates eaten, the better the health outcome,” which implies that 0 would be the optimum amount of carbs to consume – even you would disagree with this (?) I think, since you said you try to stick around 50g/day. The author of the article, too, points out that people with diabetes process foods differently (I am curious to know, but you don’t have to feel obligated to share, what your diet was like before switching to PB).
I grew up eating a lot of red meat from cows fed a mixture of grain and grass, vegetables from the garden, and grains. Because I never experienced ill health on this diet – quite the opposite – and because it works for me, I do not intend to give up grains. But I am assessing the source and amount more than I used to, and the conclusion I come to more and more is that any food that is highly processed (white bread, hotdogs, vegetables canned with lots of salt) is what should be avoided, not any one group in particular. I’ll also share that I have a “traditional” (perhaps you would say conventional) nutrition education, and I know that while some people with the same background tend to be close minded and parrot what they learn, I am trying to consider the idea that one diet doesn’t fit all and make sure I’m familiar with lots of different diet options – especially ones that do have scientific evidence in support, like the PB.
Sarah, here’s as much of a response as I can give to you at this point:
First, when they can test the “glycemic index” on a range of people in variable levels of age, gender, health, and fitness and show that it still predicts blood sugar responses consistently and accurately (within a small range), then I’ll believe that it’s scientific. Until then, it’s just babble and not even worth looking at twice. This is a fundamental scientific flaw in the hypothesis, and those 4,000 articles you mention probably ALL overlook it. The raw number of articles published doesn’t mean the theory is supported.
Many people who do PB do it entirely carnivorously and have for years. It’s a fact, much hidden by modern medicine, that you can get along just fine with no dietary carbohydrates at all. Our bodies produce carbohydrates from protein all the time; it’s called gluconeogenesis.
About insulin – it *is* toxic to the body. Horribly so. I’ve unfortunately lent my copy of Protein Power to a friend, so I can’t cite the specifics here, but the Eades have demonstrated over thirty years of ongoing medical practice that high insulin levels are the real culprit in almost all “diseases of civilization,” including high blood pressure, heart disease, and stroke. You will need to check their book (called “Protein Power”) out from the library and read up on this, but insulin absolutely is toxic to the body and the first goal is to minimize insulin production in order to minimize the damage your body gets from high and prolonged insulin levels. I can and do dub it “toxic.” Our bodies make all kinds of substances that are toxic (waste products, anyone?); so please don’t kid yourself about that.
I’m a diabetic, so I MUST track my glucose levels, and frankly anyone who’s dumb enough to eat processed carbohydrates should be doing it too, because they’re on the short road to type II diabetes. It’s only a matter of time – this is not an “if,” it’s a “when.”
I need to correct a serious misconception you have about me: I do not try to “stick around 50g/day” of carbs. I do my best never to EXCEED 50g/day of carbs, and I usually manage to stay below 30g/day of carbs. A day when I have no carbs is a good day for my blood sugar. And you are incorrect when you think that I would disagree with the idea that 0g/day is optimal. I completely agree with that idea.
Before PB, my diet was the Standard American Diet. Lots of “healthy whole grains,” pasta, rice, minimal fat, lots of low-fat processed crap – all that stuff that all the “conventionally educated in nutrition” folks said would get my diabetes and weigh under control (they were wrong – only PB has done that). Not a lot of sugar – I don’t like sweets and never have – but carbs up the ying-yang. And I was sick as a dog all the time. Cutting out wheat and other starchy/sugary carbs from my diet created a 180-degree turnaround for me. You can believe it or not as you like, but I guarantee you that you will feel better and live longer if you do the same.
Conventional nutrition is based on a series of scientific fallacies and and a few outright lies about weight, fat, and cholesterol. Therefore, your “education” is not an education. You’ve simply been sold a bill of goods. You want my input? Read the Primal Blueprint, the Eades’ books, and Gary Taubes’ book “Good Calories, Bad Calories.” Soak up the scientific evidence. Then make the informed choice. I did, and I’m healthier than I’ve been since I was a pre-teen.
I won’t be responding here on this post anymore because responding to the comment thread is getting unwieldy. Join the MDA forums here, and post to them, and learn. I’m not the only knowledgeable one – I’m just one of the louder folks here. I look forward to seeing you posting and asking questions there. Take care now.
Well Griff, I think you lost me. 0 carbs? A meat-only diet? It sounds like your views are even more extreme than others on this site. Maybe you think you’re just being direct, but your tone borders on condescending at times – I only point that out because you seem to be trying to convince people that what you’re saying is right – you catch more flies with honey, you know? (But think of all the carbs!) I’m still going to try to check out those books, but a more easily offended person might just write off what you say. Fingers crossed for better research to come out so people like us aren’t stuck debating on blogs!
Is no one going to raise the benefit of Stevia? I haven’t used sugar in about 20 years. While there is diabetes in my family, and some arthritis, I am 58 and have no health issues — somewhat high cholesterol, but high “good” cholesterol, but being post menopausal, my body changes and weight gains are from different sources. I eat organic, fruits and veg., minimal red meat (but “rare” when I do, chicken, fish, rarely eat pork in any form, and I am slightly lactose-intolerant. I use all-natural supplements almost daily, and I exercise (aerobic and anaerobic). I don’t fing my diet restrictive, I use herbs and spices ALOT (Cumin and Tumeric, Cinnamon and Nutmeg ALOT), and hot spices. No soda – ever. So, long story- short — balance with your diet is a good thing, experiment with things to keep it interesting, mix up your exercise to keep from becoming boring (mind and body), use YOGA, BREATHING, and TAI CHI techniques regularly. Common Sense goes a long way. 🙂
Mark. THANK YOU for your knowledge and time! I have read many paleolithic books. All of the info here is free! It astonishes me that the misinformed stumble here and judge without first reading or doing. Being a paleolithic advocate is sometimes a lonely place. I am among the ones seeking info, not debate.. I am a 47 year old women who is going through menopause and losing weight. I am told that I look 15 years younger than my age and asked what my secret is. Still when I try to explain paleo, I get the DEER IN THE HEADLIGHT look. I have NOT the strength to debate, so I say, GOOGLE Marks daily apple. Everything you need to know is there.
Thank you Mark
Dr. Lustig gets Type II kids of diabetic medicine, merely by having them cut out sugar sweetened beverages.
I can say from my own experience that cutting out soda alone can start rapid fat loss, particularly if you start out morbidly obese. Even while eating oatmeal routinely for breakfast.
This is a perfect reminder- esp with the holidays fast approaching. While I might enjoy a wee bit of quinoa or hummus now and then, my consumption has dropped dramtically over the last 9 months since I’ve been on the PB. Grains really don’t appeal to me any more, thankfully. Excellent post!
There’s no reason to cut out legumes, but they are high in sugar (they’re carby). I’m a vegetarian so I eat legumes on days I don’t eat eggs to get my protein in. Also hummus is the sort of thing where a serving is a tablespoon, so you’re not even really eating that much hummus (or shouldn’t be).
Grain based foods taste great, mostly because they contain sucrose or HFCS and mostly are made from refined grains. Try getting the average American to eat *real* whole wheat bread without added sugar or even brown rice. Not gonna happen.
G=G (can’t even bring myself to spell it out), glad you brought this up. That was to be one of my other major points under “no good reasons to eat grains.” They taste terrible. The only way to make grains even reasonably palatable is by adding sugars, spices, salt, cream, yeast, jams, spreads or sauces. What’s the point to that, other than adding cheap calories that easily convert to glucose? Just eat real food. Name a grain that tastes anything other than bland when its eaten all by itself. Beige glop any way you cut it.
BTW, I did give vegetarianism a try 30 years ago and it make me sick and weak. That’s why I host this site.
I agree. One of the things I realized after switching to Primal was that those cookies, cakes, biscuits, whatever might taste good, but I could never take a pinch of flour and eat it. EW! Definitely a disconnect there.
maybe you became sick and weak from vegetarianism because you are mentally sick and weak? And don’t you think that eating dead animal carcasses is bit cave-man like?
There are plenty of RAW protein sources that are far more digestible than dead meat. i.e.: hemp, chlorella, spirulina, organic cage-free eggs, etc.. etc.. etc..
I have been a veggie for years and am stronger than you will ever dream of being.
btw, what is so indigestible about spouted hulless oats?
The “cave-man like” thing is the whole POINT, Jay. Our genes didn’t evolve just because our minds did. They still expect the same things that Grok ate – meat, animal fat, and the occasional non-starchy vegetable. We did not evolve to eat grains and we are still not evolved to eat grains, regardless of what you think.
While you read “The Vegetarian Myth,” I’ll have a rare steak, thanks.
I wanted to go vegan. At one point I believed the health arguments because I didn’t know any better. It made me fatter and sicker. You can’t live on just green plants because they don’t contain enough calories and you’d have to do nothing but eat all day. You need an energy-dense source of food. If you’re vegan, that has to be grains.
The tendency for type 2 diabetes runs in my family, and I was already showing outward signs of metabolic syndrome. I lasted maybe two or three months on a vegan diet because it was making me fatter and sicker.
By the way, you can’t separate the mental from the physical, because the brain is a bodily organ just like your heart or stomach. If vegetarianism makes people mentally sick and weak that’s hardly anything to recommend it.
I have a way better time digesting minimally-cooked meat than I do seeds or algae or bacteria (spirullina is blue-green bacteria). And I would rather eat things that are easily obtained through low-tech means than be dependent on the factory food system for a bunch of germs in a capsule.
Sprouts are a whole nother matter from unsprouted seed. In that case you’re eating a plant, not a grain anymore.
Got any more insulting questions? Try this: keep them to yourself.
Wow, those posts before me are both pretty ridiculous. First, I’d like to address the gem of a statement that ‘our genes didn’t evolve just because our minds did,’ because it betrays some ignorance of how evolution works, and scientific illiteracy is a pet peeve of mine.
Alright, then: genes changing and mutating is what causes evolution. So, if you are saying that something evolved or that some part of something evolved like you say that our minds did, it is only because we evolved because our genes have changed.
Vegetarianism can only make you weak and sick if you are not eating the right things. If you get enough protein, which is very easy to accomplish by eating beans or a variety of other foods, enough vitamins, which again is simple since most fruits and veggies are loaded with them, and enough minerals.
The biggest mineral being iron, which is not as bioavailable to us from plant sources, meaning that for every gram of iron we eat from plants we will absorb less than we would if we ate the same amount from an animal source. This isn’t a huge problem, however, since there are plenty of vegetables, mostly the dark green leafy kinds, that have iron in them.
So, if you take nothing else from this and just skim through, know that almost everything this blogger writes is probably wrong. I’ve only read this one post, but it is full of misinformation. Just do yourself a favor and do a little research about what he is saying before you take it to heart. Just because he blogs doesn’t mean he is qualified to give the kinds of advice that he does.
Sorry to question your superiority there Jay-Jay but Im betting the kid’s college fund Mark would kick your veggie ass in any thing that required physical effort or ability. Why don’t you start your own blog buddy? I have learned you have to search out a matter to find the truth. If you depend on the media saturation and well known sources for your information you are up the river without a paddle or a canoe for that matter….by the way : Yes that is a waterfall up ahead.
i’m sure you get this all the time. but i think that your eating recommendations are silly.
there are so many things wrong with the suggestion that cereal grains should be eliminated from the human diet altogether that its hard to know where to begin.
first of all..human society as it is today could not possibly survive without grains. billions of people depend on them for survival BECAUSE they are high in calories.
calories are what people require to do work. now granted, grains are not exquisitely high in nutrients, but they are not designed to be.
but whatevs…attempt to recreate the imaginary scenario of supposed caveman days.
High in calories doesn’t mean good for you. When you start to look at the science behind the Primal diet (not as a weight-loss diet but as What You Eat), you will see that it’s much more beneficial for the human body than the Standard American Diet.
My cholesterol has gone down, my blood sugar has gone down, my weight has gone down, my arthritis and migraines have disappeared – because I stopped eating grains. You can deny it all you like but there’s a huge wealth of information out there for people who aren’t blinded by the conventional beliefs in this area. I hope you take your blinders off.
Mark isn’t trying to suggest a diet that billions of people can sustain… hes suggesting a diet that is ultimately healthy. This isn’t social studies class, this is nutrition.
Why do people think grains are “nutrient” dense? It is exactly the opposite, meat is dense in protein and fat. Fat is the most nutrient dense food if you are talking about calories. And both fat and protein contain essential components that are unable to be manufactured by the body. For fats it’s EFAs (essential fatty acids) and for protein it’s nitrogen and the related compounds that build muscle, and the whole spectrum of amino acids to create muscle.
That is one fact that always bothered me about going veggie – why would it be so hard to get complete protein and everything you need from a veggie diet if it’s the right way to eat?
You can live and even thrive on a diet composed entirely from protein and fat – because your body can manufacture glucose from these foods when it needs it. You CANNOT live on a carbohydrate diet only – all veggies/vegans know they have to be careful to get enough protein and fat from the plant sources, and it is hard to do so at a high-quality level. That should tell you something right there, and when you look at the body chemistry it just confirms it.
New to your site! Love it! Am a 45 year old female and spent the last two years recovering my multiple health issues: Systemic Candida, CFS, Fibromyalgia, weak heart, severe arrhythmias, seizures, mitral valve prolapse, endomitriosis, fibroids, NMH, low blood pressure, severe arthritis in my lower back and hips, CI, kidney stones and more. Through holistic health, I am now well!!! Been on a “caveman diet” since October 2008… no grains!!!! I’ve lost 54 pounds and look and feel better than I did in HS. Decided to “take my life back” when I collapsed two years ago and looked death straight in the face. If I can do it, anyone can!
I don’t really see the counter-argument of ‘grains don’t taste good’ as valid, as its totally up to the taste of the person. I love plain rice, and don’t find it bland, though most people do.
Saying that, everything else you’ve said seems fine 🙂
I have been thinking lately that grains were to be avoided and wanted to know why and your website has been really helpful. I agree with your ideas about this and will continue learning about this–as I much on my popcorn. But then you have to go and advocate eating meat! Are you serious? I agree that nothing tastes better than a good steak or hamburger at the right time and I do feel better at times after I indulge, but to suggest it is healthy is just plain absurd Nutritionists who advocate eating meat will tell you that there are two important nutrients that are supplied best by meat: certain B vitamins and iron. But ask yourself why do you think that is the case? Certain B vitamins are produced by decaying, rotting flesh. In other words, it is not inherent in the meat itself, but a byproduct of the fermenting, decaying process. And that is why well-trained nutritionists advocate meat eating? Really? The other nutrient is iron which common sense will tell you it is coming from the blood. So in other words, let’s skip the meat and just drink their blood, and that would be more nutrient dense, wouldn’t it? Plus, the obvious truth is that when a medical provider gets some of your blood on their little finger, they are scared and want to do all kinds of tests on your blood. Yet, the same meat eating provider thinks nothing of later dining on a nice juicy steak, thinking nothing of all of the infectious diseases that the cow or calf was exposed to in an effort to keep the costs down. If you really think they are tested for all likely (let alone all) diseases, you must also think that the Red Cross tests for all likely infections when you give blood–and not just the ones that are required by some regulation in effect at that time–then you are just too naive to host a website on nutrition.
Okay… So, first, you seem to be talking about commercialized animal products. That is NOT what is being promoted on this website. This website (and pretty much every other paleo/primal website) promotes eating humanely raised, pasteurized animals. They tend to have a better nutritional profile than ‘standard’ meat, and pasteurized beef has a better omega 3 : omega 6 ratio. For an animal to be pasteurized (or organic, which is a second best choice) the animal cannot have had any antibiotics/hormones during its lifetime. IF the animal NEEDED antibiotics to save its life, the owner usually sells it as a commercially processed meat. For someone who ‘feels better after they indulge’ (and for VERY good reason, because it is good for you!!!) for you to call someone naive when they have done CONSIDERABLY more research than you is asinine. And a bit ridiculous.
I am a vegan myself and there have been many nutritionists and doctors that say meat is not good for the body – or rather, we don’t need it with all of the amazing food we already have. Not only are you digesting the animal’s cholesterol but a lot of the nutrients can be found in plant based whole foods. And not to mention, meat absolutely has no fiber!
But I was intrigued with your comment and never looked it at that way. You made an interesting point and further validates my vegan diet.
How can you “enjoy your life” if your diet is plaguing your overall health and vitality? (By the way, this is coming from a vegetarian. A grainless vegetarian.)
While I’m sure Mark has plenty, I’ll give you my take. The obvious one is to emphasize vegetables and cut out grains. Cutting out grains is definitely the most important and often the most difficult for vegetarians. Refined grains should definitely go first, followed by wheat/bread products, and then whole grains (oats, quinoa, buckwheat, etc.)
Mark’s “big ass salad” works for vegetarians, too. Omit the meat and replace with avocado or raw nuts and use an oil or nut based dressing (I make my own). Basically, center your meals around vegetables (not starchy vegetables), especially nutrient-dense leafy greens, and add things like organic eggs and raw nuts and seeds. Eggs from your local farmer’s market are not only more humane but exceptionally more delicious than organic store-bought eggs. I don’t do much dairy, but I think the best choice is organic plain greek yogurt.
Raw vegetables and raw nuts are great, easy primal/vegetarian snacks. And while Mark has had some qualms with the Raw Vegan diet, a ton of it is primal-friendly and obviously vegetarian. It involves making protein and fat rich foods out of raw nuts, seeds, herbs, and oils. It’s worth looking into.
As a vegetarian, I’m curious about what works for you, Emily, too. I agree with basing one’s diet around vegetables, but do you just accept a lower-protein diet than meat-eating primalists, or do you compensate otherwise?
My two cents, as a grain-free pescatarian, is that centering my meals around veggies, nuts, fruit, and fish, and throwing in legumes, other seafood, and organic eggs & dairy on occasion works great. I probably eat less protein than meat-eaters, but I do have hemp protein shakes for breakfast and don’t worry too much about it since I eat a lot of fish and nuts.
Good call. And cocaine addicts enjoy the drug-induced euphoria. Same with Heroin users. Addicts crave the junk their addicted to, just as I used to crave bread and pizza crust and breakfast cereal (made from whole grains and minimal added sugar no less) when I was addicted to them. Now that I’ve cured my addiction, I don’t find those “foods” appealing any more. AND I feel so much better than when they were a part of my diet that it is unthinkable to me to even imagining a return to those “foods.” I used to get such bad gas from consuming grains that I used to look at my schedule to check when the next appointment for someone to come to my office was just to make sure I didn’t create an embarrassing situation-if you know what I mean. Same with my commutes by car. If I knew in advance that I had to pick up someone that day, I’d hold it in so to speak (which is quite uncomfortable on a 30+ minute commute!). Since going Primal, I’m now liberated from that grain-induced problem!
Ha, now that you mention it, I notice that I never have bad gas anymore, whereas it used to be bad enough that I’d have “exit strategies” for work or school because holding it in was so painful.
Alas, I still crave grains – specifically bread. But wheat makes me feel bloated and strangely sleepy when I gorge, so it’s not TOO hard to avoid anymore. Thank goodness I never liked rice or corn in the first place, though.
Icarus, I used to have that bloated and sleepy thing going on about 2 hrs after I ate anything with wheat. It got much worse before I figured out I have a sensitivity to gluten. Stop eating wheat, rye, barley (sorry, no beer anymore!) and you’ll feel a lot better.
Yeah you’re right! I don’t get bad gas anymore. At ALL. It used to be the worst part of a coast-to-coast flight was holding it in for 6 hours, but since I went primal, I rarely even have gas, and when I do it doesn’t clear a room.
Grains do not taste good. Save for piping hot bread out of the oven, most grains need flavor enhancement from sweeteners like sugar or sucralose or fats like butter or olive oil to be palatable. Does anybody eat just pasta without sauce or unsweetened cereal without milk? Nope. On the other hand, meat, fruit, and some vegetables can be enjoyed plain.
I love the consistency, smell and taste of bread. And I do enjoy what it brings to a sandwich (grilled cheese!). However I also realize what that stuff is doing to my body, and I have striven to eliminate all grains from my diet. However I allow myself the occasional pizza or one piece of toast with my eggs. Usually rarely, but lately more and more. And I have felt the difference, and am even more resolved to kick the grain/carb habit. This site helps so much in this effort. Like an alcoholic, I know I am never immune from falling off the wagon.
I love eating pasta, oalmeal, quinoa, etc, plain. I find this article very interesting but let’s stick to actual facts; taste is an entirely subjective thing.
Grains do not taste “good” per se, but my problem was that I could never just eat one bowl of rice (or whatever) to feel sated. I think this is partly because of the sensory deprivation of eating plain grain. I had to eat more of it to have a sustained sensory experience. Not so with meat. A while back I read some research on the connection between binge eating (which is a problem with me if I am eating a grain-based diet) and ADD (which I happen to have). Apparently one symptom of ADD in girls/women is binge eating. My personal experience is that I feel and think my best when I eat primally and stay on top of my medication schedule. And ditto with the “no bloating and gas”.
For the record, I am not the same guy as Dr. Dune. That said, I believe that insulin creates a feeling of “need” to consume more food when given a high carb meal. Based on what I have read about fruits and other carbs from eons past was they tasted like @#$%. They were very low in sugar and either very tart or slightly bitter depending on the food in question.
I have no doubt if bad tasting fruits were the only thing around, someone would eat it if they had to to survive. If you needed it to survive and had serious cravings for more, you might stomach eating more no matter how bad it tasted, so it follows that if genetic evolution provides an answer to a need, then that is partially why insulin acts in the way in does. This aspect of insulin is probably quite useless in the modern age given the abundance of carbs available today and our ways of making them tasty with ease.
Insulin puts the glucose liberated away in tissues for storage. If glucose were a primary fuel there ought to be minimal harm from having high levels in the blood stream (if Nature is reasonable, which is not to say it always is). This is far from the case. High glucose levels can be deadly and are not healthy. Insulin storage leads to crashes where you either have to suffer from the lack of fuel until a crisis erupts, or you eat more. Either way the release of glucose back into the bloodstream results in the re-release of even more insulin, even though the body is, temporarily at least, starving for fuel. Makes me think of the body working at cross purposes.
I think the body “accounts” for calories on a different basis. I am reminded of accounting where phrases like “last in, first out”are used. Emergency fuels, like I believe carbs to be, are used first as they represent a source of energy that was once consumed only in extremis for thousands of years, and thus the preferred fatty acids were to be held in as much as possible to ride the storm out until a return to animal protein and fat could take place.
I like the analogy of fuel for the car. I have a limited budget so I have to keep costs down, but I also have performance needs. If I had a cheap source of premium gasoline that was recommended for my car that I could store in an underground tank, I would use that whenever I could. If the source became limited or the price went up, I would immediately switch to using regular and suffer from performance issues, and hold my supply of premium in tanks only to be used again if prices came down, became available in abundance, or when even regular became scarce. Someone not knowing my reasons might conclude I love regular and hate using premium.
I think this is why we have been led to believe carbs are superior, because of witnessing a phenomenon of biology that exists to save us from starvation if meat and fat became scarce or unavailable for a time.
OTOH I think ancient primates had at least partially evolved to using carbs since the brain does indeed like to use carbs when available. It can go with less during lean times, but it does like them a lot. That is not to say the body likes grains over other sources of carbohydrate though. Sorry for the length of the post.
I just stumbled upon this article but would like to mention that some of my favorite things to eat are pasta without sauce, oatmeal without sugar (well, I like to eat it dry, straight out of the container — goes great with water…I’m so weird), and unsweetened cereal without milk. And plain bread. And plain rice.
(Not to say I don’t love fruits and vegetables and nuts and meat!)
This stuff is really interesting though. Definitely worth considering, although unfortunately I’m so busy and my budget is so limited that I fear I’d have to wait to try anything like this. In the meantime maybe I’ll be able to slowly nudge my way toward something a bit healthier.
Have you read the recently published book by Lierre Keith, “The Vegetarian Myth?”
She was a vegan for 20 years. Destroyed her health and the book makes a devastating case against vegetarianism, not only on health grounds, but environmental as well.
Yep, she’s both a radical environmentalist and feminist, and she shows vividly how destructive agriculture is to the planet, and how beneficial free-ranging animals are to the environment.
Maybe that should make you think about the fallacies you’ve been swallowing from the doctor and other people who don’t actually know what they’re talking about, then, shouldn’t it? Not only have I not had a coronary, I know I’m never going to.
However, I am going to go have another steak – and no coronary, thanks. You can have that with your all-grain bread and soy protein diet… or you could wake up and smell the bacon.
It has NEVER been proven that saturated fats or dietary cholesterol have any effect on heart disease. Notice I said DIETARY cholesterol. Yes, the small, dense form of LDL in the blood is strongly correlated with heart disease, but what raises it? Carbs.
Also, beef fat is only about 50% saturated, about 50% monounsaturated. Lard (prokfat) is about 70% monounsaturated, 30% saturated. I blieve poultry is similar. So the entire belief that animal fat is causes heart disease is unsubstantiated.
A good point you made about how little traditional doctors know about the subject. I think the fact that the average MD is dead by 58 is plenty reason not to look to them as a well-spring of health related wisdom.
Did you knowingly follow up “stop worrying about your diet and enjoy life” with, “Give Vegetarianism a chance”. You literally just said, don’t worry about your diet, instead change you diet. I personally just stumbled onto this site so if you have a similar post about why vegetarianism is unhealthy id love to know about it.
i liked this post, i have tried paleo in the past and started losing weight and feeling better immediatley. i stopped however because i still wasn’t convinced i should eat meat( i was a vegetarian from 13-about18) you have to think about grains/beans/dairy..these foods can NOT be eaten in the wild! to eat grains one needs to build a fire step one, and as far as i know we are the only creature who has figured that one out…step two you need a vessel to boil water clay/stone/metal/glass i don’t know but you need to make something that will hold the water and not melt on the fire,step 3 go out and search the land for grains/beans they are hard as rocks and ya they don’t want to be eaten!! i wonder how we figured out how to cook these hard inedible seeds? something most people don’t think about, but think about how much effort goes into making grains and beans edible, while meat veggies fruit and eggs even honey can all be eaten raw wild readily available nutrition! as far as taste goes, plain grains all by themselves are not very tasty they are PLAIN not gross just plain. anyway, i’m glad i came across this article very inspriring
Do you really think there aren’t any animals that eat grains and/or beans? Just because they’re hard to get to doesn’t mean something won’t try; in fact, I’d probably assume the opposite of that. The harder something is to eat, the more animals are trying to eat it. That’s why it evolved to be so difficult to get to.
i never said that actually..i think that animals including us take nutrition wherever we can get it! i was just making an observation that we are the only creatures that cook something into becoming edible which can make you wonder if we should eat it or not. now what you just said about something being harder to eat makes it evolve into becoming harder to eat is silly, seeds are very important to plants because they are the future of their species all seeds are difficult to eat because of this reason…i am still a vegetarian on most days but will occasionally have meat i eat lots of grains and beans and i loooooooove bread. i’m not sure if we should eat grains and beans or not which is why i tried the paleo for about a week. the one thing i noticed was how easily meat is digested while the grains gave me heartburn and seemed to sit in my stomach for hours
Actually dairy can be eaten raw! There is a growing movement of folks who are demanding access to clean, safe, locally produced, organic raw milk and raw milk products. In many states it is legal to buy/sell raw milk. Some people who cannot tolerate store-bought milk can tolerate raw. There is, however, something to be said about the notion that cow milk was made for baby cows (and goat milk for kids, etc.). I must say that I feel immensely better after having eliminated dairy from my diet.
I have now heard all of the above from people – usually while they stuff their mouths with cake or cookies. I guess the irony of “what about fiber” and lack of vitamins and minerals was lost on them…
“humans arent meant to eat grains” which is why every known civilization bases their diet off of some type of grain or starch.You cant name one that doesnt. Grains arent unhealthy , taste is subjective, and “primal” cultures today eat grains, dairy ect. and none of them do hiit or lift weights.
Inuit didn’t until they were partially assimilated – and grain-eating Inuits are extremely unhealthy – obese, prone to diabetes and heart attacks which their hunted-meat-only eating counterparts don’t suffer from.
The reason why non-nomadic civilizations base their diets in grains is because there came a point where humans became too overpopulated to live as nomadic hunters and growing grains thousands of years ago fed more people with less land. (the amount of land territory it takes from roaming hunter-gatherers is high compared to the land it takes to both grow grains and keep domesticated livestock)
Another reason why they used grains and livestock instead of only living off of livestock and vegetable crops is because grains can be stored in times of famine and can be traded as primitive currency to collect taxes and pay workers’ wages.
The fact that grains are unhealthy and a high-grain, high-carb sugar-based metabolism can mess up the health of even the most well-adapted grain-eater either didn’t become apparent enough to cause alarm or it wasn’t important enough when weighed in with the other benefits grains gave civilizations at that time. (So what if you die younger and are a little more unhealthy? At least when a crop-killing drought or animal-killing disease comes you’ll have grain reserves to keep your village/city alive and quench civil unrest)
civilization evolved because grains allowed population to increase and allowed stratification of society… just because grains are needed to sustain a population doesn’t mean they’re healthy. after the adoption of agriculture, life expectancy DECREASED, along with average height, free time, and probably a whole bunch of other things i can’t think of right now. that’s the whole point, eating like a caveman, sans grains, is healthier
Talking about primal cultures, I wondered what you guys think about the book of Weston A. Price, who studied a number of “primitive” cultures. Many of these groups did eat grains (rye, barley, etc.) or other carbohydrate rich vegetables. See his book:
Could it be that the health problem is mainly wheat and not all grains? And that only people that need to watch their weight may want to try the effect of eliminating more carbohydrates?
I didn’t get that message, the one about the slow horrible death. There’s ample proof that grains were not meant to be digested by humans. You can take it or leave it, but there are a lot of people that I know personally that were just as skeptical as you seem until they went without for a month.
You should try it if you haven’t already. I mean what is 30 days in an avg. lifespan of 77 years?
Not sure about the tomato thing. I haven’t known this site to ever be concerned with counting carbs, just eating healthier carbs.
Healthier carbs should be the first concern. Counting is secondary. Depending on your goals, you may need/want to reduce your carb input. I’ve used the Zone diet in the past to help me portion my macronutrient intake. Helpful, but I would suggest to anyone thinking about the Zone to only treat it as a guideline, and not as a full-on diet prescription. I found all the measuring and meal timing to be too burdensome. The general Primal rules are much better.
I’m with you, Tim, on how carb counting can get ridiculous. That is why, unless you are regimenting your diet for the sake of weight loss, I don’t recommend people do it (and even then not all the time).
Carb counting is a Low CARB thing, not a paleo thing. It is really only important for diabetics or people who are so carb sensitive that eating fruit makes them ravenously hungry for all carbs, grains, fruits, sugars and other starches.
CARbs in a tomato…
That is basically people who have ruined their metabolism with grains and sugars. Tomatoes are fruit, and they have to take those into account if they are trying to keep their carb intake below a safe (for them) level). This concern is not related to paleo eating except that the diets are similar and they have recipes that they can glean to each other.
As a diabetic, it is in my best interest to carb count EVERYTHING, including tomatoes, which are actually a fruit and quite high in sugar. I might have two tablespoons of chopped tomatoes with a salad, but no more than that because my blood sugar goes through the roof if I do.
Oatmeal’s got one of the highest amounts of phytates of any grain so, long story short, yes.
Now, I love oatmeal (at least, with sweetener in it). In fact it was one of my staple foods in my vegan phase. I was already short on essential minerals and I think the oats just made it worse.
Hi Mark –
Just finishing your book today.
In regards to grains, I’d appreciate your opinion on this product, which I have as part of a morning smoothy: http://www.ultimatelife.com/CatalogMealBenefits.htm
It is primarily greens, not grains — but it does have millet in it.
I tried sprouted bread this weekend, and as Mark pointed out above, it’s very tasty…when slathered with a generous helping of golden-yellow pastured butter. 😛
Taste aside, I think if you don’t have a sensitivity to gluten, then soaked/sprouted/fermented grains overcome some of the main health detriments associated with grains and listed above; that is, they preserve nutrients (unlike polished grains) while getting rid of *most* antinutrients (unlike those “healthy” whole grains.)
But they’re still a bit carby – one slice of toast will run you 14g of carbs, and seriously, who eats one friggin’ slice of toast at a time? That’s 28 carbs for breakfast or a sandwhich, which, while probably much better than white bread, is probably still best used in moderation, like good milk. (Pastured butter, on the other hand, imo can and should be used in nearly everything…)
I’m not Mark, but I think WAPF guidelines for grains are extremely important for folks in poverty who can’t afford a lot of meat and/or don’t have the storage space for perishable whole foods. These folks are going to be heavily dependent on grain, and presoaking that grain in an acidic medium will render it a lot safer.
Very timely for me as well. Thank you. I’ve been struggling a bit lately in figuring out what’s good and bad for my individual system, and this is a great reminder of why I should never ever consider grains. Even if they taste good, they’re not worth it!
I posted this on Twitter, but might as well just place it here…
I think it’s a wise idea to avoid the grains, but when there are two people involved and only one of them is decidedly primal, sometimes the primal person has to make concessions.
In my house, dinner is whatever my wife puts on the table when she cooks. I’m extremely blessed that she is fairly on-board with primal foods, but there are times where we will have pasta or home made pizza… maybe a couple times a month. I think it’s a small sacrifice for me to make in order for her to not feel the burden of *my* dietary convictions when she doesn’t 100% believe in it. It’s a worthwhile sacrifice. Considering how much she and I have both changed our eating habits for the better, I can’t be happier. I don’t want to spend too much emotional effort nit-picking because in comparison, it’s only one small piece of a much bigger puzzle.
Absolutley! I have a family of 5 including my mother at home. No one else is “on-board” It makes everything a little more complicated. And you have to weigh your relationships into the mix. I think fundmentalism in any form isn’t a good thing. I still kept grains in the morning for a few weeks, but cut them out completly. I feel better then I ever have in my life! I don’t have interest in making exceptions, except for rare occassions. Beleiveing i am a food addict..cutting out grains and refind sugar is essential! So glad to have found PB and crossfit too!
Good point on the importance of making concessions. My fiance is very nonprimal, and sadly nothing I have been saying or doing has made a dent on his outlook (OK, so he switched from regular to diet coke, sigh). I do all of the cooking, and the primal way of cooking is further made difficult by the fact that he does not eat most veggies, nor many varieties of meat (oh and NO seafood of any kind). Anyway, we try the best we can — I’ll usually make him a potato side that I won’t eat, and buy low-carb tortillas for his beloved chicken fajitas. Thank god he loves steak almost as much as I do.
I was really stressed out in the beginning, but now realize it isn’t worth it since that isn’t helping anyone — if/when he is willing to make a change, I will be thrilled. For now, we do what we can to avoid going to bed angry 🙂
Thanks for the insight. I wish I could find myself a decidly primal/paleo-crossfittingesque-wonder-girl to avoid having to make those kinda sacrifices. Pretty damn rare amongst student life though… “ZOMG FREE DOMINOS AT FRESHERS!!” 😛
You’re right. I should give it an honest go for 30 days and see how i feel. Right now i only eat oats for the most part anyway-so hopefully it isn’t too hard.
Sorry for the vague post by the way, i was in a hurry.
Tim – I miss oatmeal, too. I was thinking I might try heating up some almond flour in heavy cream and throwing a few berries in. Who says hot cereal has to be oats?
Timely. I ordered a low-carb six dollar burger (per your recommendation) at lunch and they mistakenly gave me a regular six dollar burger. I was going to go ahead and eat the bun, then read this. It’s now sitting in the garbage.
While I agree with most of the post, Mark fails to include the reasoning behind the article about the benefits of fiber: “It’s a bit of a paradox, but what we are saying is an injury at the cell level can promote health of the GI tract as a whole.”
Only including the words “rupturing”, “banging”, and “tearing” is an emotional appeal that exploits the traditionally negative connotations of these words. I thought dispelling, not reinforcing, traditional conventions was the goal of this site.
Nate, I’m just quoting verbatim the article in Science Daily (and linking it directly so anyone can read it). And yes I AM dispelling CW in that paragraph, since I am clearly questioning the rationale of the those terms (dispelling) as they could possibly apply to good gut health.
Intestinal lining isn’t muscle fiber. You absorb a lot of substances through it and it interfaces with your immune system so this is not something to play around with.
I have Crohn’s Disease and one of the things they told me is to avoid high-fiber (and high-G.I.) meals when I have Crohn’s inflammation – when I’d forget this, my intestinal immune system made sure to remind me, sometimes in not-so-subtle ways
My husband and I quit eating ALL grains this past March to reduce my triglycerides and improve my husband blood sugar level, and I received the unexpected result of having huge amounts of inflammation leaving my body more flexible than it had been since I was a small child! I am still amazed and thankful each and every day! Unless there are unexpected circumstances, I seriously do not see myself EVER eating grains again, especially wheat. Thanks for the site Mark!
That’s exactly my story. Quit grains, most especially wheat, and my inflammation dropped significantly. It dropped to the point where I don’t have to take meds anymore for IBS and I don’t have chronic foot pain. I now use my foot as a guide for inflammation levels. My body is functioning (and looking) SO MUCH BETTER without grains.
Forgive for writing this, but I must pose a question.
Mark mentions cereal grains, and other things like spelt, millet, etc. However, are things like brown rice “less bad” for you? I would say it cant be any worse for you than a processed grain like flour.
The term “cereal” means ALL grains, including rice and corn. It is a term used to describe the seed of any member of the grass family. That is, grains.
Thanks for laying this all out. Keep preaching also it needs to be repeated. I’m coming around on this – have cut way back on them and I’m leaner and feel better generally. But it’s tough in this ADM-centric world of ours it’s tough 🙂
Rachel Allen- I second this!! I ate grains most of my life with no symptoms (I’m now 38) and just recently developed IBS. After giving up grains (and beans, sugar & almost all dairy) 2 months ago, I have eliminated my symptoms!
I, too, wish this site had been around 20 years ago! :o)
Excellent Post and VERY important. I developed Crohn’s at 23 and put on all kinds of drugs. I’ve since quit grains and the drugs and have had my inflammation levels drop significantly and I literally have no markings that would show that I have Crohn’s anymore.
Don’t wait to quit grains, quit them now especially if you are of European descent. GI will doctors will say diet has nothing to do with it. They are either liars or very misinformed. Diet is EVERYTHING.
That is strange that your GI docs act this way – at the hospital when they realized I had crohn’s and not appendicitis (the large baseball-sized absessed fistula going from my guts to my kidney may have been a clue), they gave me a printout with a small table of high, moderate and low fiber/G.I. foods and suggested to eat low fiber/G.I. during flare-ups (G.I. being a euphemism for carbs).
My GI doc emphasizes stress over diet but I’m pretty sure that’s becasue it’s much easier to detect which foods damage your intestines and which do not whereas stress is more omnipresent and harder to gauge.
Of all doctors I’d think GI docs would be the most pro-primal, anti-grain docs out there, even with their limited nutritional training.
Excellant article Mark. I have been turnded on to the Paleo way of eating since reading Neanderthin. I have never felt better after giving up my grains. Potatoes were harder to give up since I am Irish. LOL.
I love your website and your articles are very well written. Here is another site that give more of the bad effects of grains, potatoes, milk, etc.
I never was a big grain-eater or grain-lover, so scaling back consumption to zero was easy.
Then again… by cutting them out, I discovered just how many grains I had actually been consuming via mindless noshing. A few crackers here, a few chips there…
Once I made the decision to pass them by, I found I was regularly stopping myself from grabbing grain junk because “Oh yeah, I won’t eat that anymore”.
Cutting out snacking by 90% and ditching those sugars/starches/grains made a huge difference in my weight and body composition, even with no change in exercise habits. I am a solid 15 lbs less than what SAD had fixed as my low “do-not-cross weight threshhold”, and yet no cravings.
My body/mind isn’t going wacko trying to revert to its “normal” weight. This **is** my normal weight! It’s so easy it’s unreal. Usually by now – heading into winter – I had always been afflicted with chronic cardio burnout and massive carb cravings. You know, to get back to a supposed “set point” [only to have to lose the flab again the following summer].
Now I have plenty of room in my diet for fats I could never enjoy in the past, plus some new ones I find absolutely delightful (coconut, macadamia oil). That means I am eating foods that I am supposed to be eating to keep everything working properly. I feel great and am now looking forward to focusing on a better exercise scheme, instead of wanting/needing to get away from it all. (I am 5’5″ and 115#)
I was max 130 prior to reducing grains – (5’4″ AND A HALF thankyouverymuch 😉 weighed in at 118 yesterday and am still losing weight. You can do it! I feel SO much better in general, now.
WHAT? Really? Ugh.. Im so ill informed on everything food-wise. I will never go veg or vegan but I can ditch grains no problem.. I need to start from square one. I guess this sites a good start..
Honestly I think that some of us are more “addicted” than others. Even though there is a huge burn-out and long-term effects there is pleasure involved initially in eating grains for many people.
It’s like being a drug addict in a society where it’s frowned upon if you’re NOT using it…
some good points also lots of conflicting points people say grains are bad to digest and cause weight gain maybe true but would you eat a dead cow in middle of road full of dirty poisonous toxins ?? that red meat takes up to 72 hours to leave body surely this cant be best for lifestyle. im a big believer in bread is worst culprit out there as its mixed with yeast,wheat,flour,all sorts but i feel a bowl of porridge oats is maybe the only exception for a grain as i feel this is a good food its a good petrol for the body along with fruit veg and fish salads im still to be convinced eating birds and cows is good for the human body people have all sorts of allergies and intolerences i even think twice bout putting milk in my tea now all the stories bout is dairy ok i think its all trial and error but i do agree with the points that high protein low carb does afect serotonin levels and lowers mood this is why i think oats can help with that
Nice Post. I have been off grains for a while and always feel much better without them. No bread, pasta or processed food at all and I still manage to maintain a heavy muscle mass, a solid muscular foundation and very little in the way of cravings at all.
I have read a number of people who enliken no grains to counting carbs. The two are mutually exclusive. I still maintain at least 40% carbs through healthy whole food choices such as yams & potatoes plus a wealth of fruits and veggies. Carbs are not the enemy…processed food IS!
Carbs are the enemy if you’re already halfway to diabetic. It’s great for you if they don’t bother you. Honestly, when I’m low-carbing I find I can get away with some. But too much is too much.
I’ll take Mark’s statements about grain one step farther and say there’s nothing in plant foods that you NEED that you can’t get from animal foods. Plant foods are relatively cheap, and some phytonutrients turn out to be useful to people who are already metabolically damaged, but aside from that… well, there are carnivorous traditional cultures, but no vegan ones. I’m sure there’s a very good reason for that.
Sounds liek you’re using the Zone diet of 40/30/30… I’m not sure if the Primal Blueprint/Eating Plan was meant to be used that way as you probably still burn sugar instead of ketones as a main fuel source and it’s the resulting toxic sugar damage and high overall insulin levels that can cause problems such as inflammation/inflammation-related heart disease, insulin/energy instability, insulin resistance and increased cancer/tumour cell growth.
Stone age humans were designed to run primarily on ketones, not sugars. So in my opinion you may be missing out on some stone age/primal diet benefits
After I ditched the grains last June I found out why I was experiencing chronic, low level pain. I even told my sister once that I was really concerned about it.
But the visual proof of not having grains – and lower carbs generally – was my toenail fungus stopped. As in a clear line across my nails that matched in time to my grain cessation. The fungus is still doing a bit of rear guard action, but pretty soon it should be all gone.
On of my fellow nurses was a vegetarian. She told me she finally had to add meat to her diet because her body could
t stand it any more, she was sick and weak all the time.
I have a niece that’s a vegetarian. What’s interesting is that she’s a twin. Her sister is not a vegetarian. You can tell the difference. The veg looks pale and weak and has worse skin. Wish I could talk some sense into her.
It is certainly very easy to be an unhealthy vegetarian or “carbotarian” as I call it. However, we shouldn’t dismiss the possibility of a vegetarian who doesn’t eat grains, eats primarily nutrient-dense vegetables and fat, and plenty of organic eggs. I can say with confidence that I am the healthiest person I know (in person, anyway!) and that’s the diet I follow.
I plan on doing a blog post sometime about the risks of vegetarianism and the way it can still be a healthy diet. While it’s sometimes challenging to maintain great health on a vegetarian diet, there’s a slew of moral and environmental issues that vegetarianism addresses that often gets overlooked on many primal/anti-vegetarian blogs. Let us not forget what (conventional) meat consumption is doing to the planet and to an enormous amount of living creatures.
The moral and environmental issues with the meat industry are huge yes. I believe that’s why we need a huge change in farming procedure. I don’t think people should stop eating meat as a result but rather stop supporting the companies that are causing these issues if they possibly can. The horrors of the meat industry are just one example of the consequences of the money-power-play running behind the scenes of governmental systems. So ultimately we gotta ask, how do we fix the system?
The moral and environmental issues, as I’m sure you know, are almost entirely averted by eating pastured meat, eggs, and dairy – that is, by encouraging animal husbandry that truly deserves the name and farming practices that respect the animals that nourish us and give us life (and clothing, and fertilizer, and labor, and and and…) And of course, organic farming is basically impossible without the use of animal waste for fertilizer, and I don’t think egg-laying hens and milk-giving cows produce enough waste to sidestep that fact, which is why vegetarianism is impractical for an environmentally-friendly system of agriculture in the long run. Veganism is especially so.
I guess the main problem lies in the fact that eating animals still involves killing them, which, if it’s as painless and cruelty-free as possible, I don’t personally have a problem with. But, different strokes for different folks, I guess. Also, grass-fed meat/eggs/dairy is damn expensive, but, in my opinion, worth it on a moral level and possibly a nutritional one as well.
While, in theory, it’s true that, as you say, grass-fed meat is worth it on a moral and nutritional level, not everyone can actually afford to eat that way. The primal lifestyle is, in its ideal form, an expensive one as well. I hope to someday be able to buy food like that, but for now I avoid meat, because I wouldn’t want to eat the meat I can afford.
As opposed to the clear-cutting required in most plant agriculture which, of course, does absolutely nothing to the environment because deforestation isn’t the first step in desertification.
This is the elephant in the living room that no veg*n seems to want to acknowledge. Nobody has to raise an animal in a battery farm. Anybody wanting to raise cabbages has to clear land first.
I absolutely agree with this. Since cutting out all grains and grain derivatives, I have been IBS free. That’s 5 weeks with no IBS. I used to suffer at least once a week, with the most awful, debilitating pain which would leave me curled up on the floor in agony.
Now, meat, fish, veg, limited fruit and limited nuts are what I eat. I am healthy. I live my life deciding what and when to eat rather than food dictating to me.
Great post again Mark!
This post was great to remind me about why I am making these changes, and encouraging me to keep at it. Last night I made us our first real Primal evening meal. But I decided to include things that my husband normally loves – chips, rice and crisps. So I made a roast pork tenderloin, fried cauliflower rice, sweet potato chips and beetroot crisps. My husband was really impressed – even with the meal being grain free.
Mark, do you think that nuts and seeds are indeed healthy to consume? You make the argument that fibre can be deleterious to health. Yet, nuts are very high in fibre and not easy to digest for many. As a fan of nuts, i am beginning to think they should be avoided. For instance, everytime i look at my fecal matter after having eaten nuts, i noticed numerous bits of nuts, even though i chewed the nuts as best as i could. I think that humans might absorb little nutrients from nuts, and that they may cause more harm than good in that the fibre might damage our GI tract. Your thoughts?
peter, I am a fan of eating nuts. Most people digest nuts (and nut butters) quite easily. Understand, I am not against fiber per se, I am simply saying that we get all the fiber we need from vegetables, fruits and nuts. We just don’t need to get added fiber in any way from grains.
Peter – you might want to look into the Weston Price Foundation’s website (www.westonaprice.org) and read up on how to ‘process’ nuts so that they are more edible. WAPF recommends that nuts & seeds be soaked and dried before consumption. This will neutralize anti-nutrients in the raw nuts. If the nuts & seeds are soaked and dried correctly they become crispy and delicious. Several companies sell nuts like these but they are pricey. Some people I know do all this at home with a dehydrator.
WAPF also recommends that all grains be soaked, fermented or sprouted before being used or consumed. This does neutralize the anti-nutrients that Mark mentioned in his article and it does help in digesting the grains. However, I’ve found from my own experience that this still doesn’t go far enough and that I feel better if I avoid grains.
Quinoa and flax are not grasses, they’re still seeds though, they might contain lectins and phytic acid, but couscous is cracked wheat!
Just because the others, who would be starving otherwise are eating them doesn’t mean they are good for you. You can easily digest them if they’re prepared and cooked properly. Not getting sick after the meal is not the sign that the food is beneficial, but that is tolerated by the digestive tract.
If you read the article again you’ll understand that it isn’t by chance. It’s a defense mechanism that evolved through the process of natural selection.
But evolutionary mechanisms evolve by chance. There’s no brain in the seed going, “Hey, if I were indigestible, I’d be so much more successful!” and then making it so.
I get the argument against wheat, rye, and barley (especially for Celiac Disease sufferers). What about rice? From what I’ve read and from what my friend who has Celiac Disease, rice is safe and as long as it’s not enriched with a wheat-based additive and you’re sure to wash/polish the rice before cooking (something that all Asian’s do and from what I’ve read, it removes a great deal of the lectins as well), you’re good to go.
Hmm…sounds like Rice might be good for an endurance athlete for post-workout and/or possibly mid-workout replenishment when glucose stores are tapped out (although tubers would work too).
Jon, rice is a great source of cheap carbohydrate that readily converts to glucose. Full stop. Rice is not a good source of any other nutrient. On the spectrum of worst to “least worst” I suppose rice is less offensive than wheat, rye, corn, etc. but only because it is lower in the other antinutrients.
Oh yeah, back when I first gave up grains, I also gave up corn. Throughout my grain relapses, the only time I’ve relapsed on corn was while eating polenta because I didn’t realize that’s what it was I didn’t really have a reason for giving up corn. It just seemed starchy and unnecessary. What’s your opinion on corn?
You know, meat is a touchy subject. Grok was the prey for a long time before he was the predator. When humans finally started eating meat, it was scavenged meat in very small amounts and was usually regurgitated due to food-poisoning. Meat is important. But, sitting down to a huge steak isn’t exactly easy on the digestive system. Small amounts of meat are a much healthier option. Also, large game was a no-no for a lengthy period of time after Grok and his family finally learned to hunt together. Red meat was almost always eaten in small amounts. Seafood wasn’t all difficult to come by, but fish was dangerous to try and catch. Think about it. Bears.
Think about it, Mark. Bears. Maybe he meant that Grok and his kin would have eaten the bears, too, as well as the fish? Yeah, I think that’s what he meant.
On a more serious note: it’s a somewhat controversial issue, but some would attribute the relative absence of large mammals on earth to overhunting by humans in pre-agricultural days. In any case, any anthropologist will tell you that neanderthals, humans, and our immediate ancestors in the homo genus probably subsisted *mainly* on large ruminant mammals, like the aurochs – forerunner of cattle. (Aurochs, aurox, ox, get it?) So I have no idea where Benji gets his info. And, there’s even less reason to believe that they would have eaten “small portions” of Woolly Mammoth steaks (I mean, it’s got ‘mammoth’ in the name, how on earth do you even eat small portions?) because Grok and co. were presumably not tainted by the anti-red meat biases of nutritionists and dietitians…
That idea that humans killed off the megafauna is accepted in many academic circles but is under pretty serious debate in others. Just given the metabolic consequences of eating meat, including the typical hunger levels, I have a hard time believing paleolithic humans gorged on huge amounts of it. You’re just not that hungry on a meat diet, and as low as their fertility rates were, it wasn’t like each tribe had to feed a lot of people.
While we probably killed off a few species of megafauna, I don’t see how we killed them all.
However, climate change was going on when the megafauna were dying off, which is just as likely an explanation for their demise as anything.
Human beings are primates. The primate order is an insectivorous order. Even the so-called “vegetarian” gorillas and orangs pick nits from their fellows and offspring and eat them.
Bugs are meat. I know culinary and religious types don’t want to admit it, but it is. Insects are kingdom Animalia, period, full stop.
We were eating meat long before we started scavenging kills. By the way, we still eat our meat rotten. That’s what “aging” means.
Just a quick note on this. I agree. Insects are meat. But according to what I’ve read about Dian Fossey’s observations, the insect eating by primates is a social/cultural thing. It’s not done for pure nutritive purposes.
” But, sitting down to a huge steak isn’t exactly easy on the digestive system. ”
That is completely false. It may have been true millions of years ago when we were beginning to add more meats to our diets but ask anyone with irritable bowel syndrome or inflammatory bowel disease which foods are 100% safe for them to eat even under severe inflammation and most of the time it’ll be meats, meats and more meats. (Unless said meat is drowning in man-made chemicals which said person is very sensitive to)
I,m not saying you should avoid all plants, just that between plants and natural animal flesh, animals are easier to digest
Could you maybe also do a post on dairy? I just showed this to all my non-paleo friends who were like wtf….why no grains? The next step I need is to also show them why I limit dairy. Thanks so much for your work!
I would also love to see this. I already ate mostly fruits/veggies/meat before I went full paleo, but I also indulged in greek yogurt, cheese, and the occasional slice of bread with tuna. I now have an awesome resource to point people to when they ask about my lack of grains, but still don’t have a really definitive, consolidated one for dairy.
“but the fundamental problem with grains is that they are a distinctly Neolithic food that the human animal has yet to adapt to consuming.”
>> Correct but there is a problem with your theory. There is a percent of population that is now ADEPT to eating grains. I know of a few people who can have a whole wheat bagel and bounce of walls. As for me, it puts me to sleep which is why I tend to avoid it as much as possible.
It’s a simple test. Eat a meal consisting of grains and notice how you feel. If you feel tired, grains aren’t for you. If you feel fine… you are one lucky ba**ard!
FitJerks, adept at eating grains is an interesting choice of words. Many people are adept at it but have still not adapted to it. Read some of the comments above from people who thought they were “adept” grain eaters for years, but only after they cut grains did they realize the impact grains had had on them. I say we are all unadapted to eating grains – it’s just that some of us manifest problems immediately while others (like myself) take 30 or 40 years to manifest.
And it’s not a simple test. I felt fine after every grain meal I ever ate. It was only after giving up grains that my mild arthritis disappeared, my occasional IBS disappeared and other subtle issues that I had chalked up to “age” or stress disappeared.
I have a question and, when I searched for an appropriate thread (I used “poison” and “grain” in my search) I was told it could find nothing. So I’m hoping to ask my question here. The thing that is holding me back from fully plunging into this new eating style (after being mostly vegetarian for years) is a question about one of the basics of the Primal philosophy: It seems that you are saying that grains are “poisonous” because they “don’t want” animals to eat them. As a lifelong professional biologist, it has been my understanding that grains are actually fruits of the grasses (grains are grasses of course), and they are designed to be edible and to be eaten by animals, and then transported far from the parent plant where some are defecated out in locations where they will sprout and not compete with the parent ! Where have I gone wrong here? (Now I have to hope that if I receive responses, I’ll know where to look to find them.) Thanks to anyone who can help. This is a major stumbling block for me. Bill
Bill,
A Google search for “grains botany” reveals that grains are technically fruits. Sort of. From fao.org, Botany of the wheat plant, “The seed, grain or kernel of wheat (more pedantically, the caryopsis) is a dry indehiscent fruit.” Note that in the case of wheat it is the seed itself that is eaten, not the fruit surrounding it. Also, dry indehiscent fruit sounds unappetizing or even inedible.
A search for “grains seed dispersal” showed that when ripe, the rachis holding the seeds together shatters in undomesticated grains, scattering the seeds. This feature was bred out of domesticated wheat, and highly domesticated wheat is unable to reproduce without human assistance. This suggests that grains do not rely on animals for seed dispersal, but rather just throw their seeds in all directions.
Finally, “wild grains seed dispersal” found http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17495170 “The role of wheat awns in the seed dispersal unit.” This shows that wild wheat seeds disperse themselves and even plant themselves. No animals necessary.
Also, instead of “poison”, try “lectins” and “anti-nutrients”. And you are much more likely to get a response by putting your question in the forum.
Fitjerks, its interesting how your words are literally a copy and paste of what Poliquin says about carbohydrates. Like Mark says, it may take YEARS for symptoms to manifest. I literally had the same issue as Mark with the occasional IBS, just though it was stress. Always seemed to happen when I was travelling too…fun stuff. Glad I figured all this stuff out early (22 years old, Primal for over a year now). Whether you “feel” anything from grains why bother consuming them when you could use those calories some much more efficiently by getting more from Fruits/Veggies?
Just because they don’t get tired doesn’t mean anything. A meal shouldn’t leave you bouncing off the walls anymore than it should leave you wanting a nap.
Caffeine makes you bounce off walls too. Doesn’t mean you should consume it all the time. If a food’s going to make me immediately experience an energy surge I’d ask myself what it’s doing to my hormone and neurotransmitter levels. And I probably wouldn’t like the answer.
Thanks for this post. We had our first child nine months ago. Since then it’s been pretty much nothing but homemade baby food (fruits and vegetables) and breast milk (Tried rice once. Very constipating). During that time I have also taken to reduce my grain consumption and introduce more fruits and veggies.
For a while I thought my IBS and other digestive issues were due to a fructose sensitivity, but what I’m now finding is that reducing grains has help more than reducing fruits. I’m also learning more about salycilates. Have you done any research on that yet?
Anyway, as our baby grows, we are feeling intense pressure from our doctor to introduce grains into her diet (because doc claims she cannot get enough calories from fruits and veggies) and from the Italian grandparents who can’t wait to introduce her to pasta.
And quite honestly, the reason I haven’t eliminated grains completely from my diet is the cost. I’m finding it hard to entirely replace those calories with fruits and veggies without spending much more money. Same thing with my daughter. As she needs to eat more and more food, it’s very tempting to introduce grains for cost reasons.
If you are feeding your baby breastmilk on demand she/he is getting all the calories she/he needs! Even at one year and beyond babies do not “need” grains or even really that much extra food. It is not uncommon for exclusively breastfed children to get around 80-95% of their calories from breastmilk at one year. Your child will be leaner than other children but that isn’t a bad thing.
We are Italian as well so I know what you mean about the grandparents! We love to throw grammy’s bolognese sauce over grilled eggplant and zuchinni! mmm. mmm. mmm! The kids love it b/c they’ve been raised to think eggplant and zuchinni’s are kid food. Our daughter (11) didn’t figure out that most kids wont eat such things until it was too late and she was already in love with them! As far as grammy goes, as long as we’re eating her home made sauce, she’s usually cool with it!
Also, Replace those calories with more fat. Our 11 year old plays very competitive club sports and requires enough calories to fuel her demanding (but rewarding) energy out put; Our 15 month old has just (in the last few months) begun really exploring his taste buds. Both love almond butter on bananas, ham and cheese slices, sliced tomatoes and mozarella, mashed cauliflower w/butter and one of their favorites- wild rice w/plain greek yogurt (true wild rice-which I believe was given the thumbs up by Mark in a previous post- not the wild rice blend). Hope some of those options prove helpful and Good Luck!!
Cutting out most grains has definitely improved my health (fat loss, strength gain, and asthma symptoms gone). Recently I’ve added back in small amounts of oatmeal with no negative effects. I’m intrigued by the positive health benefits of beta-glucan in particular. This complex polysaccharide has been associated with improving immunity, reducing insulin resistance, reducing appetite, and lowering LDL levels (see http://bit.ly/4ooc2K and http://bit.ly/1WEuO3). If you don’t like or don’t want to eat oatmeal, you can also get beta-glucan from mushrooms, or take as a supplement.
Interestingly, the gluten in oats doesn’t seem to cause problems for most people who are gluten intolerant (http://bit.ly/2Iotzo).
Am I “grain apologist”? Maybe. 😉 For those of you who miss oatmeal, why not experiment and see how it effects you? I totally agree that humans don’t NEED grains for health.
I do P90X, which I know you were involved in creating, and in fact P90X recommends adding whole grains into our diets. For example, oatmeal is a now a breakfast staple for me. Or, take a look at Tony Horton’s list of top 10 snacks (http://www.howtobefit.com/tony-horton-top-snacks.htm). Grains are definitely not a large majority of my current diet, but I do eat them.
So, definitely being a non-expert, how should I be interpreting this (very conflicting) information/advice ?
Ok. I’m game. I’m on the “FatShredder” nutrition phase (remember that?) and so my protein to carb ratio it pretty high already, and if I replace a few grain based items with healthy fats and veggies I will be moving close to your primal guidelines.
But I have a follow-up question: Regarding the concept of the post-workout Recovery Drink (3:1 or 4:1 carbs:protein ratio), would you still recommend that ? The RD was/is highly recommended within P90X, yet it will be difficult to keep carbs below ~80g if using a RD.
dfgh1234, re: P90 I was paid to develop a drink for a workout program that called for intense work every day. That’s my profession (developing supplements to fit a demographic and a budget). That meant replacing carbs after every workout. The P90 program is NOT the same as the Primal Program. In PB, I don’t recommend training that hard every day, nor do I recommend eating that much carbohydrate every day…but if you choose to do P90X, you probably need to replace those burned carbs. Hence the RD.
I should disclaim… I do not P90X every day, so I don’t have a need for RD’s. I have no muscle confusion…Tony Horton would be so disappointed! Either way, I have created my own schedule and incorporate the work outs into it. My fave’s are the core, plyometrics, and the yoga x. Once or twice a week, I challenge my 11 year old to 10 “sprint races”. We mark off point start and finish and she always kicks my butt! BUT, we have a great time!
I forget where I read this (probably a WAPF thing) but children fed oatmeal had significantly more cavities than children who ate non-grain based foods for breakfast, all other things being generally equal. Oats still have anti-nutrients in them and do not have that much in the way of nutrition to give back, even when soaked a la Weston A Price, especially compared to an egg.
It depends on the children. I found a free copy online of Price’s Nutrition and Physical Degeneration book and he found isolated cultures eating oatmeal. But they also had access to high amounts of dietary minerals. If you’re going to eat something chock-full of phytates (and oats are like that), you need to up your fat and mineral intakes to balance it out. Most people don’t do that because the heavy grain eaters are also cutting back their fat intake.
Mark,
My dad is always coming up with different reasons of why we should eat grains. He says man has been eating grains since the start of time. Every time I tell him, to a degree, exactly what you said in today’s post. That was perfect timing because there was solid evidence why grains are the worst! He did ask a question ,though, that I couldn’t answer. What did Grok do in the winter when there wasn’t a lot of readily available fruits and veggies?
Grok ate meat during the winter (and, well, all year round). Maybe some roots as well. Grains are only available naturally (i.e. not farmed) one or two months out of the year, and those months are not during the winter.
Although you probably won’t see it stated as such on this site, there is no dietary requirement for any kind of plant matter in the human diet. There are examples of modern day hunter-gatherers who lived entirely on meat. There are also examples of HGs who lived/live mostly on plants, seafood, and/or small animals, and they don’t rely on grains either, instead going for the roots, shoots, fruits and leaves of plants.
While I generally agree with what Icarus wrote, I’d clarify that modern HGs have been know to exist almost exclusively on Animals (not just meat). In fact, it is dangerous to only eat the meat (i.e., animal muscle tissue) and not also the organs if you are not consuming vegetables or coconut oil. We need fat and their nutrients, which are found at much higher ratios in the organs rather than in the muscle.
That’s what I meant… I forgot that most people don’t consider “meat” to include organs or fat. Meat is a weird word, anyway; some don’t consider it to include poultry or fish, even. (I do.) You are right in that fat mostly hangs outside the organs (visceral fat like leaf lard) and on the back (subcutaneous fat like bacon grease) on wild animals, although of course the most prized cuts of meat, like rib or loin meat, will contain a good amount of fat as well. Fat-soluble vitamins are stored when consumed in excess, so much fat at every meal and occasional liver (high in vitamins A and K2, and a bazillion other nutrients) is definitely recommended IF one were to try to live this way, as some no-carbers do. Which I think is kinda unnecessary, but definitely do-able if done properly.
So how do you answer to Asians (Japanese in particular)who have white…I mean really white rice, as a regular part of there diet. I mean, they are some of the healthiest people in the world and live the longest.
The famous longevity of Japanese people through their lifestyle choices may be attributed to many factors e.g copious amounts of fish, stress mitigation… Yes they live long and yes they eat lots of white rice but correlation does not imply causation. Imagine how long they might live if they didn’t eat all that rice!
They still get hardening of the arteries and that’s not due to Westernization. A study was done after WWII comparing autopsies of Japanese and American soldiers and found roughly equivalent levels of artery-hardening. There were more Japanese eating traditional diets at that time than there are now.
And believe it or not there’s a diabetes epidemic brewing over there. Funny how it hasn’t picked up much press here.
I’m not sure what their traditional fat intake is like but they eat so much seafood that they probably get a relatively high mineral intake compared to us. They also eat a lot of vegetables, and they love pickled foods. These all make a difference.
Oh, I should add that the traditional way of making rice over there is different from how we do it. They wash their rice and soak it overnight. I don’t know how many antinutrients are left in polished white rice, but soaking it in vinegar, an acidic medium, would do away with whatever was left after the bran was removed.
Dana Carpender, a low-carb writer, says she’s heard that rice causes a lower insulin response than other grains. I don’t know if that’s true but it’s an interesting idea. If I’m in ketosis from low-carbing and eat rice I can usually stay in ketosis as long as I don’t eat huge amounts.
Grains are equally bad if not worse for our pets, and I would urge anyone listening to find one of the grain-free, by-product free pet foods out there for your little guys.
On a much more frivolous note, i’ve been good about ditching grains but there is an undeniable, near primal, male urge to turn anything into a sandwich.
I’m down to ezekial sprouted grain english muffins with all excess muffin forked out–just enough crust to hold pastured butter and then it becomes my blt or egg mcmuffin or my po’ boy sausage with mustard.
Better yet, ditch the whole kibble idea and feed fresh, whole foods in the form of meat, edible bone and organs to your canine and feline friends! Anyone looking to do so, can contact me privately for help. I’ve fed a “primal diet” to my dog pack and one cat for over 9 years now.
Hi,
Thanks for offering and sharing your guidance on the primal diet for our wonderful pets. I just rescued a 5 year old golden retriever. Right now I am feeding him natural balance brown rice and lamb. I have given him red meat and chicken…but seems to have a very fragile intestinal track and gets diarrheah….(live in an apt…blah blah blah)….anyways… would love for you to share your lovesly wisdom.
Orijen is an excellent high protein grain free pet food which I use for my two cats.
My youngest one, a pure bred Maine Coon is getting really big on it!
Could you use a large, strong variety of lettuce leaf as bread substitute?
I remember reading about the introduction of modern fast-food and fast-food wrappers in some country somewhere, and how the wrappers caused pollution problems as they used edible biodegradable leaves (banana leaf???) as wrappers before McD’s invaded their towns
I guess people are too lazy to type “asparagus” into Google and select the Wikipedia page reference to it. From that page: “Asparagus officinalis is a flowering plant species in the genus Asparagus from which the vegetable known as asparagus is obtained. It is native to most of Europe, northern Africa and western Asia.[1][2][3] It is now also widely cultivated as a vegetable crop.”
I.E., asparagus is not a grass. Eat up!
PS. Why this question in particular? ‘Cause it looks a little bit like grass?
Hmmm, according to what I’ve read, Asparagus is a grass. It might be outdated info, but that’s what I read. Now WHERE I read it is anybody’s guess. I read all over the net and books by the handsful so… I ask questions. and when I go to tell someone what I read here, I won’t be able to tell them where I got that either. It’s a curse, I can remember WHAT I read, but not WHERE I read it.
Asparagus is a shoot – the very young, very early protrusion of a plant stem. Shoots are nearly always mentioned as one of the plant foods that hunter-gatherers, modern and ancient, would have pretty easy access to, so feel free to eat up. 🙂
Also, being that it’s a green vegetable, it’s very, very low in carbohydrate, even fiber, because the plant is so young. Much lower than any grain, which grow quicker because, as annual plants, they have very short lifespans. It’s also one of my very favorite veggies, so I may be a teensy bit biased, but nothing I’ve said is untrue, so, again, eat up.
I took my kid to the grocery store the other day. It’s great going through the produce aisle and telling him about all of the vegetables and fruits (even though it’s still a struggle to get him to try them). We’ve nicknamed Broccoli the King of All Vegetables, and Asparagus the Queen of All Vegetables.
I ditched gluten over 6 years ago and had a fantastic improvement in health. I soon realized that I feel even better when I avoid all grains and sugars. My diet now is mostly paleo-like.
Oatmeal often contains high amounts of gluten from cross contamination. If one has celiac disease or gluten sensitivity it is recommended that only certified gluten free oats be consumed. But it is a grain so I avoid oats too.
I have a question about your anti-toxins section. As veggies are also plants, shouldn’t they have massive anti-toxins also?
This has been perplexing me for a while. It’s clear that the seeds would really not want to be eaten, but shouldn’t the arms and legs of plants also have a defensive mechanism?
We’ve clearly seen that in nightshades and what not… so how does that work into the picture?
SJ, we’ve been eating fruits and vegetables for millions of years and have truly adapted to the compounds found in some of them (even though many don’t really resemble the original plant forms because we have selectively grown them for sweetness and taste).
These compounds (phenols like flavonoids and ellagic acid or organosulfides like sulphorophane, indols like allicin, etc) may have been part of those plants defenses, but for us they have antioxidant and other protective benefits because we adapted to them. Grains and legumes have defensive compounds to which we have NOT yet fully adapted.
Folks are mistakenly listing quinoa as a grain. Quinoa is not a grain; it’s a seed that contains all of the essential amino acids, so it’s a fantastic source of protein. If one is concerned about potential phytic acid content of quinoa, simply rinse before cooking. As a competitive bodybuilder and mixed martial artist, I eat 2 cups of quinoa every day. Amaranth and raw buckwheat groats also contain all of the essential amino acids, so i would definitely include those are acceptable foodstuffs, though quinoa is the best.
Use lettuce for a wrap. If you must have something that’s more like bread, do a Google search for “oopsie roll.” A lady named Jamie VanEaton worked out her own version of Atkins’s old homemade low-carb rolls using eggs and cream cheese. OK, not primal maybe, but they work in a pinch.
Dennis, why do you assume you need to have a sandwich as part of a healthy diet? A sandwich was always intended just to be a vehicle to eat the good stuff that was between the bread. Why not just eat that? I haven’t had a sandwich for 10 years and don’t miss the concept one bit.
Mark, my thoughts are with the very rigorous workout outs (P90X) 6 days a week, carbs are essential. I know I have to change my thinking, but quite a shift especially when I have a family that thinks I am nuts…
However, I didn’t realize how grains weren’t not a natural dietary process.
As an undiagnosed celiac for about 45 years, now diagnosed and gluten-free for 3.5yrs+, grain-free for 1yr+, I must mention the importance of KNOWING if you are celiac before going grain-free. Many posts describe symptoms of celiac (bloating, IBS, gas, arthritis etc); going grain-free is great, but if you cheat once in a while you’re undiagnosed celiac/gluten ingestion continues to harm your body and put you at higher risk for GI cancers and lymphomas.
I wish I’d known 20 years ago (at least) about this stuff, too. *wahhh*
My integrative MD finally went full gluten-free 4-5 mos. ago (not sure about grain-free) and notices great improvement in her joints (she notices when she challenges it by eating pizza – she’d previously attributed it to sodium or cheese…).
Also, to the person who asked about introducing grains to an infant, there is discussion in the celiac community to wait until at least 1 yr (Dr. Fasano’s doing a 20 yr clinical trial – only in yr. 2), or discuss this with a good allergist. You might consider your family history. Google “Dr. Fasano baby grains” and/or visit celiac.com for discussions. Not everyone on celiac.com is a gold-standard biopsy proven celiac, btw.
As a celiac I really appreciate this info getting out there to support my current lifestyle choice. Thanks Mark :).
I forgot: even though I’m mostly Paleo, I still eat yogurt. I still have inflammation (latest hsCRP is 6.something, down from 12.something, not sure why). Not sure if it’s the celiac, hypothyroidism, dairy or what. My legs feel full of lactic acid no matter what I try (exercise exaccerbates it). It takes a week to recover from heavy exercise. Any ideas?
I was always puffy around the middle and grumbling in the intestines until I gave up grains by reading your website. It was like a total change in my shape… All of the sudden my midsection got flat in a hurry and I didn’t feel like crap all the time.
I’ve always had a gut feeling that I should just eat meat and vegetables. I don’t feel full and bloated like I do when I eat grains. Since I quit the grains I have felt SO much better, and my cravings for starchy foods have simply disappeared.
I’m just wondering about the marathon runner or the person who needs extreme energy / carbs. They tell me they can’t cut out the pastas or grains. Is there really a reason to eat grain for more energy is there another means to attain the same result?
Chris: As a Masters All-American marathoner, I can tell you that the Primal approach grains has had a net-zero impact on me, in terms of energy. We cannot overfill our tanks with carbs and expect to gain any benefit from it, right. If all carbs are depleted between 30-120 minutes from the time we start running, does it make sense to carb-load in any event? I don’t carb-load before a race, except to eat Gu Gels immediately before, during, and immediately afte a race. This way, I’m recruiting those carbs for energy when I need them. There is a school of thought that states hat all carbs are gone within 4 hours of ingenstion anyway, so, if we buy into that, why would we carb-load.
All I needed was a viewing of the movie Food Inc and that made me realize how BAD grains are (despite conventional wisdom, I work in health care).
Thanks for the reminder Mark.
PS: I did the whole vegan thing years ago currently paleo and loving it!!
My wife is vegetarian but pretty much eats grains and soy meat replacements. Her cholesterol is through the roof. Ive been trying to get her off of grains for some time, now Ill start trying again.
Mark,
I’m curious if you might do a similar post on legumes. I have seen contradictory evidence that often points to beans being unhealthy for some of the same reasons as grains……..
For those of us who still like grains every so often, may I suggest Xtreme Wellness! High Fiber, Low Carb Tortilla Wraps by Ole Mexican Foods (no, I am not employed by them). Remarkably, they have 5 grams of carbohydrates, 12 grams of fiber and 8 grams of protein for each wrap and are very satisfying. They also contain no sugar, no lard, and no cholesteral. I think they have hit the nail on the head with these.
I agree, next to extra-virgin olive oil lard is the healthiest cooking oil.
Also, “low cholesterol” is meaningless… so is the claim that they contain no sugar – carbs are sugars as far as your body is concerned.
And the fiber grams may be a little too high for people who have problems with too much fiber.
However, asides from that it is worth a try if you can’t find something better, really want a good greasy dark leaf and meat-filled tortilla and follow the 80/20 rule
I agree that we have not evolved to eat grains, but if I’m going to be completely honest with myself, I also admit we have not evolved to eat meat–despite the fact that I continue to eat meat daily.
While I love Mark’s blog and Primal blueprint for helping people with practical dietary re-balancing in a cultural context, it’s hard not to agree with Lauri Forti’s posts on human’s true natural diet from the evolutionary biology perspective:
The common thread in paleo/primal and raw diets is the elimination of grains and dairy, which is why I’ve decided to work towards those, instead of elimination of meat.
Not sure what you mean by “it’s hard not to agree with Lauri Forti.” I just went to that site to review her argument. She has her agenda, and I can’t fault her for that, but she has no idea what she’s talking about. None. It’s all typical vegan/vegetarian convoluted drivel. Talons, fangs, claws, etc.
Human beings are primates. The primate order is an insectivore order. Bugs are meat. Look it up. Kingdom Animalia.
We *are* meat-eaters. In fact, we owe our large brains to meat-eating. We’re just not obligate carnivores like cats–we get by with some plant food, like dogs do.
If we’re not meant to eat meat than why is 0 carb 0 fiber organic meat the safest food choice I can have with my inflammatory bowel disease? Why is my immune system attacking germs and particles when I eat grains, nuts, etc. and in sever cases even has a hard time of processing salads but I’m perfectly fine with meats?
Wow…you’re asking to do away with centuries of tradition! How would the French (and many other cultures) deal with this and all their traditions of good bread? And…they are overall healthier than we trendy, food-faddish Americans.
The bread and the sweets are why there are any fat French at all–and trust me, there are. But they eat so much more animal fat than we do. If they didn’t smoke, they’d leave us in the dust.
I removed sugar and grains from my diet since January,
stopped fruits since march,
I have been eating non-starchy vegetables,fish,fowl and lamb (not organic or free-range) since June this year.
Started portion control in protein since 15 days to take 59gms protein per day which is my lean muscle mass weight..( as a result I am able to stop eating easily when I am satisfied without uncontrollable feeling of wanting to eat more ,which often lead to binge eating…)
I feel like my insulin level has come down a lot in 15 days ..I was showing symptoms of hyperinsulinemia last year .Not anymore..no more binge eating these days.Also I eat only two or three meals a day.
My fasting blood sugar shows 85mg/dl and postprandial BS is between 97-105 mg/dl after any meal .
Blood pressure 115/75 mmHg ( last year 130/90 )
But today my lipids showed the worst result..
TC- >500.. (checked three times) , last year it was140 mg/dl
TG- 132 mg/dl
HDL- 42 mg/dl
I am an Asian male of 38 years..
Resistance training with weights ,also 30-40 minute walks most days of the week.
Could anyone please explain why my lipids could be at such dangerously abnormal levels?
Does it take so much time for lipids to become normal ?Should I wait for a few more weeks and check again?
Thanks, Krish
( just don’t want to go on medication )
Krish… if you go to the forum on this site and check it out there are some posts on blood pressure. Apparently when your HGL is low it throws off the calculations they use to figure out your total Cholesterol levels. There’s more detailed information in the forums, so really… go there and check it out!
OK, overall, there’s probably no reason to worry about your cholesterol. The overall number could mean anything from day to day because every cell in your body makes cholesterol. Your body needs it, so it keeps it around. Could be that in your particular instance it’s using all that cholesterol as repair material for whatever damage you’d done to yourself in the past.
Meanwhile let me share some recommendations from Dr. Michael Eades’s new book. Check these:
Apo-B: If this goes down but your LDL stays the same or goes up, it means your LDL particle size is larger, which is a good thing.
Lp(a): Below 30mg/dl
HDL vs TG: Divide your TG number by your HDL number. If the result is less than 5, that’s also a good sign.
Or you could ask your doc to get the lab test that counts LDL particles directly, because the usual method is to use an equation that, as the other commenter stated, is skewed by low triglycerides. Direct count of LDL is expensive, though, and your insurance may or may not cover it.
You could also try eating more saturated fat and cholesterol, odd as that sounds. If you’re eating it, your body doesn’t need to make as much of it.
Alcohol is used to disnfect because it saps alot of moisture from bacteria and cells, which kills them. If you consume alcohol make sure you’re hydrated first, and eat some probiotics to replenish your gut flora, as well as antioxidants to repair the cell damage it does in your body. (yes, it saps the moisture and kills cells in your body too – which is why chronic overconsumption can cause brain damage and kill liver cells faster than they can regenerate. It,s also why alcoholics sometimes have really ugly messed-up skin – alcohol is even used to harden and cure leather if I remember correctly)
I don’t know at which point alcohol stops being a minor nuisance to your body and becomes a major helath-damaging threat, but I’d suggest to drink in moderation. (Also, I should mention that I’m not an expert in these things, just a laywoman that likes to read things)
Then, there’s the problem of grain-based alcohols… drink red wine if you can – it’s generally healthy. Also, drink hard liquor like vodka instead of beer – it’ll have less grains/carbs.
Not to be glib or snarky but, it’s a toxin is it not?
A toxin is by definition a “bad” thing to consume. How bad may depend on dose, and body type and other factors, but it’s probably more unhealthy than, say, Milk.
Different toxins do different things. I was reading a paleo blog yesterday where they were talking about that. Seems most mammals enjoy getting intoxicated and pursue it whenever they can. And our bodies are well-equipped to process alcohol, whereas they are not equipped to process phytic acid or enzyme inhibitors, which are the toxins present in grains.
And let’s not forget herbal medicine, which we have used for most of our species history and which depends on self-defense toxins present in many plants.
Wow, let me guess… you haven’t read “Good Calories, Bad Calories” by Gary Taubes yet?
Synopsis: A compilation of decades (pushing a century and a half, if memory serves) of research that refute that exact, ridiculous premise (among others).
Caloric deficits do not work. Thermodynamics and metabolism are not so simple-minded. If portion sizes were the key, everyone who ever tried a caloric-deficit eating plan would lose weight.
(Oh, and is coming to my website and leaving trollish comments really necessary? I think not. Let’s just be civil, okay?)
I personally believe in quality not quantity. I’m not about “losing weight” I’m about being strong and healthy. If I’m hungry I’m going to eat as much paleo food as I need WITHOUT fear of “gaining weight” because it just doesn’t happen when you eliminate grains from your diet.
Been there done that, everything but fruitarian and I’ll tell you this is the only way to go.
WE are already stressed out with the work we have. I can’t eat 8 tiny PORTION SIZES as you say throughout the day, I am a normal human being that can have say 4-5 meal max heartily . I can’t carry a journal that counts what i eat, the number of calories etc. and get stressed about it. If you even know how a grok eats, he doesn’t need 5000 calories to stay full, he’ll eat whenever he’s hungry and
drink when thirsty, thats how human beings evolved for millions of years. Guess what Steroids,pills,supplements would just be better than eating at McD to get ripped or lose fat. but thats not the point, its about natural,healthy living.
40 yrs of accumulated BS in your gut that you call “research” is better than how our DNA was designed to be for 40,000 + yrs?
If insulin is present in the bloodstream at sufficient levels, yes, it will promote fat storage. That’s its *job.* It’s a storage hormone. Calories have nothing to do with it. Over and over I talk to fat people who say they eat very little and yet they can’t dump their fat stores. I have experienced this myself. Insulin is the reason. As long as it’s elevated, REGARDLESS OF YOUR CALORIC INTAKE, you will not lose weight.
Try looking at the reverse to understand this: how many fat type 1 diabetics have you ever met, who couldn’t blame it on an incorrect insulin dose?
So my being able to eat almost three thousand calories a day of low-carb food and still lose weight doesn’t mean anything to you? I’m a hundred pounds overweight, by the way. (The only reason I am is I keep jumping off the wagon. I blame no one but me, I’m just “telling it like it is.”)
Prove it. Calling Taubes names does nothing but discredit you. Proof. Real proof held up by the experiences of real people.
I’m 5’6″ and in the 240s weight range and sedentary. According to your low-fat diet quacks I should be eating something like 1000-1500 calories a day. I don’t have to eat that little. I can eat three full meals a day and the weight still starts coming off. And I don’t exercise more either. There are benefits to the right kind of exercise, but weight loss isn’t one of them unless you’re killing your lean mass.
Spurlock consumed too much sugar and vegetable oil. I can lose fat eating at fast food places–I ditch the buns, avoid the fries, and don’t touch the sugary drinks.
A bunless Baconator with Caesar side salad at Wendy’s is one of my staple going-out meals when I’m low-carbing. Yum, yum, yum.
Obviously, you haven’t paid attention to the science behind fat loss. I call troll.
Those 40 years of accumulated research are based on faulty premises which cannot be supported with current data. Try reading recent research and you’ll find a very different picture.
But as you’re a troll, I doubt you’ll do anything of the sort. Keep peddling your grains, honey. I’m not buying.
Jane, I’ve lost 50 pounds in three months doing nothing but eating low-carb. Apparently Lyle doesn’t know his stuff when it comes to people with metabolisms like mine.
Let me give you a free clue: You won’t succeed with your “arguments,” such as they are, on this site. Everyone here is wise to the idiocy of conventional nutritional thinking, and isn’t going to be convinced back. So give it up, honey – you don’t know what you’re talking about.
And to demonstrate that you’re not going to convince me, I’m not going to read or respond to anything else you write, because frankly, I have far more important things to do with my time than waste it on a CW troll. Bye-bye now.
It seems like almost every thread I’ve ever read on the internet has ended in some heated argument.
I agree that it is annoying and sometimes infuriating to be preached to about nutrition by a person who has no concept of a variety of metabolic rates and conditions.
However, not everything that isn’t stated in this site qualifies as conventional wisdom. Many of the people who comment on these threads tend to just be repeating what they’ve read here or elsewhere, and that is how conventional wisdom develops and becomes a problem.
for 2 years i have been eating oats and steel cut oats….or have been trying to eat them every couple days. was very bothered by the fact that i coudl produce enough natural gas to fuel my house for the winter after eating them. thought i had issues with not processing them. so glad i came across your informaiton. i am throwing them away. no more gas!
thanks
I love my toast. I love my sandwiches. I love my white rice. I love my cereal, it’s the only way my body can tollerate milk. I also believe in everything in moderation. With that in mind, I see nothing wrong with having a turkey sandwish along with a glass of orange juice or apple juice. (I’m broke, can’t afford all the over the top prices of so many “healthy foods”.)
If the human digestive system hasn’t evolved, then why do we no longer need our appendix?
Kasey ~ Perhaps we do need our appendix. It has been proposed that the appendix gives a “safe house” to the good gut bacteria and these can be used to recolonize our intestine after exposure to a pathogen. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17936308
Even though we may be able to live without all our body parts, that doesn’t mean they don’t serve a purpose. We have not discovered everything about how our bodies work.
As far as healthy food costing more, I have found my improved health is worth every cent. I am also saving money by visiting my doctors less often.
If you are having trouble tolerating milk(except with cereal), you may want to listen to what your body is telling you. I don’t eat grains as I am gluten sensitive and feel better off all grains. I don’t drink juices or eat rice as they will cause my blood sugar to spike. Again, we have to listen to our bodies.
Grains are terrible! This is the TRUTH. Its easy to see just look at chinese and japanese cultures, all they eat is rice and use wheat to make other stuff like dumplings, and just look at their life spans and cancer rates and diseases. sickness and disease are running rampid through they’re 5000 year history
Something tells me that you’re not Asian and that you should re-check your facts about the culture and diet. Wheat is a more recent thing due to Western influences, but rice has been a main staple in the diet for thousands of years and the longevity of the elderly in all Asian countries is relatively high (much higher than in the US and Europe). It was only when Western influences happened is when things turned south. I’m not just talking about diet, lifestyle changes happened as well but on a more intense scale (i.e. more desk jockeys working 16 hour days with no vacations and high amounts of stress). But that seems to be only in metro areas within Asia at best. You start expanding further and incorporate the rural areas and you’ll see that the countries as a whole are still living a hell of a lot more cleaner than the US.
It’s not often that we will take drastic action with a commenter, since we encourage debate. In fact, there actually aren’t that many naysayers out there. Having said that, you’ll note that we have removed comments from Jane Carraro, MichaelS, Rick Santos and Lisa because a) they are all the same person and b) he/she just couldn’t play nice.
You do have a point, you don’t need grains but don’t sway the facts to make it seem like they are unhealthy. I have actually never met a single healthy person in my life who did not eat a healthy amount of whole grain foods. Processed grains are crap, agreed and sandwiches are delicious. Odds are, however, your diet will lead to cancer somewhere along your digestive tract soo….. have a nice time with that.
I just want to point out that the comment from “Griff” about “swaying the facts about grains” is NOT me posting. As you can see, my avatar does not appear on the comment, and it’s my belief that the person in question is trolling and using my name on purpose.
Grains have been repeatedly shown to do damage to the gastrointestinal tract and to the connective tissues. Look up “lectins” and “leaky gut syndrome” for a real kick.
As for cancer, it’s not caused by eating meat and fat. It’s been repeatedly shown that glucose – which grains break down into in the body – is what feeds cancer cells. Cancer cells can’t process ketones; their mitochondria simply don’t have the capability to process anything but glucose, where normal cells can process either glucose or ketones (along with short- and medium-chain fatty acids). Stop eating grains and other foods that break down into glucose, and you’ll halt cancer in its tracks because you’ll starve the cancerous cells.
Maybe you didn’t read the fiber article all the way through, but they said it was a GOOD THING. Actually, they said that right after your quote. And your Salad doesn’t have any nutritional info except the macronutrients. And really, overall, your article is simply wrong information. Our bodies are made to digest everything, just occasionally people have dysfunctions. Like people are allergic to something. 1% of the population doesn’t account for everyone quite obviously.
I feel bad for all of the people who read this and think that they should avoid whole grains because they didn’t look into your research.
Don’t just assume you are the only one who read the article.
If you examine what the they are ACTUALLY saying is that, okay the grains cause damage to the tract but it’s fine because the tract will create mucus and repair itself quickly.
At what point does the research say that it is beneficial to the body to go through this process? They just say, the body recovers. Why would we need to damage the tract in the first place? Thrive not survive.
Please try not to think because you are the only one with your opinion it is purely because you are the only one to read the article.
Just reading all of these comments are just making me angrier. Please read the articles he links, he is only taking what he wants to hear from them. The fiber roughing about our tract is a good thing because it is creating mucus, if you read the full article. That in itself should tell you that you should not trust him and he is going to twist words and facts in order to sell his book.
It is also produced as a lubricant, which is why it’s all over the alimentary canal. It also protects the stomach from gastric acid.
Unless you’re suggesting that the purpose of mucus is to trap foods and acids required for the digestion of those foods I’d suggest you follow your own suggestion.
I’m right there with you man. It’s like “scientists” tell me I need white blood cells. These white blood cells crash into bacteria and literally kill themselves, exploding inside of me to fight bacteria.
Exploding inside me? Yeah right. It doesn’t take a scientist to know that exploding is bad, and exploding inside of me is worse. I plan on going in to the doctor and asking them to take my white blood cells out.
I mean who knows more right? Some guy who spent his whole life studying “science” or people like you or me – real guys on the street who really understand what is going on.
Keep on fighting the brain washing man. Your common sense is a breath of fresh air.
I agree – they are already doing something similar to this with cholesterol and statin drugs… darn pesky cholesterol going around repairing the damage we’ve done to our bodies… just like everytime you get sick you get a bunch of white blood cells everytime your tissues get damaged you get a bunch of cholesterol – it’s about time doctors discovered cholesterol’s strong association with cell membrane damage and started getting rid of that stuff, but as you say they need to put more effort into eliminating white blood cells which are often associated with disease and infections
Bread Kills!
1. More than 98 percent of convicted felons are bread users.
2. Fully HALF of all children who grow up in bread-consuming households score below average on standardized tests.
3. In the 18th century, when virtually all bread was baked in the home, the average life expectancy was less than 50 years; infant mortality rates were unacceptably high; many women died in childbirth; and diseases such as typhoid, yellow fever, and influenza ravaged whole nations.
4. Every piece of bread you eat brings you nearer to death.
5. Bread is associated with all the major diseases of the body. For example, nearly all sick people have eaten bread. The effects are obviously cumulative:
* 99.9% of all people who die from cancer have eaten bread.
* 100% of all soldiers have eaten bread.
* 96.9% of all Communist sympathizers have eaten bread.
* 99.7% of the people involved in air and auto accidents ate bread within 6 months preceding the accident.
* 93.1% of juvenile delinquents came from homes where bread is served frequently.
6. Evidence points to the long-term effects of bread eating: Of all people born before 1839 who later dined on bread, there has been a 100% mortality rate.
7. Bread is made from a substance called “dough.” It has been proven that as little as a teaspoon of dough can be used to suffocate a lab rat. The average American eats more bread than that in one day!
8. Primitive tribal societies that have no bread exhibit a low incidence of cancer, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s disease, and osteoporosis.
9. Bread has been proven to be addictive. Subjects deprived of bread and being fed only water begged for bread after as little as two days.
10. Bread is often a “gateway” food item, leading the user to “harder” items such as butter, jelly, peanut butter, and even cold cuts.
11. Bread has been proven to absorb water. Since the human body is more than 90 percent water, it follows that eating bread could lead to your body being taken over by this absorptive food product, turning you into a soggy, gooey bread-pudding person.
12. Newborn babies can choke on bread.
13. Bread is baked at temperatures as high as 400 degrees Fahrenheit! That kind of heat can kill an adult in less than one minute.
14. Most bread eaters are utterly unable to distinguish between significant scientific fact and meaningless statistical babbling.
In light of these frightening statistics, we propose the following bread restrictions:
1. No sale of bread to minors.
2. A nationwide “Just Say No To Toast” campaign, complete celebrity TV spots and bumper stickers.
3. A 300 percent federal tax on all bread to pay for all the societal ills we might associate with bread.
4. No animal or human images, nor any primary colors (which may appeal to children) may be used to promote bread usage.
5. The establishment of “Bread-free” zones around schools.
This post proves 2 thiings: 1) It’s possible to “prove” anything you want using statistics, including the conventional wisdom the conventional wisdom thrown at of for 60 years and 2) It’s possible to be right for all the wrong reasons
Some caveats:
Indigestible fiber (not necessarily from grains, but from other vegetable matter) feeds your intestinal flora. The latter colonize your gut and work in tandem with your own immune system to keep pathogens from gaining a foothold, via “competitive exclusion.”
Also, Remer and Manz’s studies on “Potential Renal Acid Load” make a quite compelling case for the direct effects of dietary minerals on resulting internal pH balance, which seems to have serious implications for health and fitness. Long story short: some things you eat are acidifying (esp. high protein food), others are alkalizing (green vegetable matter), and you want to maintain a judicious balance between them.
One of the most important things to note about the USDA Food Pyramid is that it’s put out by the US Department of AGRICULTURE. They have a vested interest in putting out the food pyramid as they do.
I don’t know where to start. I just finished reading Marks’s article about unhealthy whole grains. I’m an obsessive-compulsive, binge eating, food addicted soul who has spent her entire life up and down, and all over the scale. Not to mention the food pyramid! My weight is out of control once more, and I’m currently suffering a sciatic injury. When I visited my chiropractor the other day he swore me OFF ALL WHOLE GRAINS. I didn’t want to believe; I want to retaliate(for some reason); I have fear, doubt, and skepticism? I’ve been sitting here on the computer looking up neagative arguments against whole grains in the diet, and I stumbled upon Mark’s article. I have to say, you’re the first to put things so easily understandable, and I wanted to thank you for that. I feel I want to dip my toe into the pool. Where does one start? Tell me what I CAN eat, not what NOT to eat, and why. Also how is best to prepare it. Recipes? These are practical ideas to help the masses buy into the truth; arming them with the tools necessary to take this plunge. Thank you.
Ok Mr. Sisson can you write out a list of foods that i can/should be eating? i would never have thought grains were unheathly 🙁 please include all foods from snacks and breakfast lunch and diner. Just a simple list i can reference to obviously if this is not too much trouble for you. If you can would you be able to include also foods i should not/never eat. thank you so much. Or if Mark can’t do this can someone else here help me out and show me a list? thanks again
-Mike
For the record I, personally, eat grains, whole grains, but I am taking seriously the possibilities suggested here, and doing my research. I have noticed that as I cut back on grains over the last 2 years and increased my consumption of fruit and non starch veggies I have felt far more energetic, and capable, than previously. And that as I do so, when I do eat grains, more sporadically than before, they have a more profound effect on my sense of vitality and liveliness.
Ain’t scientific observation or fact, just an anecdote with all of the biases inherent.
Rachel,
I’m not trying to be cute, though no one could be blamed for suspecting that you were, and I’m not trying to be unpleasant or a snit. But some things need to be said.
I think you could have raised a valid point about the value of whole grains, but instead you chose a different path. I think that you could have contributed better to your fellow commentators from your ideas on these points had you not been so flippant, dismissive, and snarky.
What you did above would be called arguing from authority, except you weren’t really arguing. And that’s a problem. You were making proclamations and issuing directives which isn’t really arguing, though it’s sort of like a kind of rhetoric.
Sort of.
When arguing from another’s authority, it is best not to be snarky about it. This poorly reflects on the one being snarky.
So, even if you were actually arguing from authority, and you weren’t even arguing, this is considered a logical fallacy in argumentation. They teach us these things in 11th grade English, or at least in better schools. Baring this, you would typically learn what fallacies are in arguing and logic in college.
When to make recourse to the amorphous authority of “a real nutrition course: nothing is said about the quality or credentials of those teaching such a “real nutrition course”- heck, what in your eyes would constitute a “real nutrition course” anyway?
Have you honestly read much of the new research on these matters? Beyond research (which always suffers from the biases of the researchers) have you taken the time to actually speak to people who have cut grains out of their diet, with success, and seem healthier for it?
Anecdotal evidence is weak, of course, but this does not mean that there may not be something interesting beneath the surface of accounts of many people who are cutting grains out of their diet, that may point to things that have eluded the authorities that you esteem simply because their biases and assumptions have simply blinded them, possibly, from making certain considerations.
Sadly due to the nature of the Internet it is possible for an otherwise very intelligent person to come off sounding like a fool. It’s a limited communications media.
That said, before throwing out proclamations and directives from authority it would be good to reflect on what you are writing.
“You need to take..” and “whole grains are needed..” are a directive, and a proclamation, respectively. A softened directive – you didn’t say “get thyself to a real nutrition course now”, “you need to take..” a nutrition course is a bit softer. But it’s still a directive, or awfully close to one.
In other words you are directing one to do X, and then stating – presumably – on the basis of the results of that directive that Y is true, without an actual argument as to why this is the case.
Good rhetoric, a quick shot shaming tactic, but not a sound or persuasive argument.
Maybe you should at least look into both sides of the issue in greater depth before just blurting out an opinion as fact.
The comment about seeds do not want to be digested, really opened a new door. My family can’t believe that cutting out grains is a good thing. We are Bible believers, and in the Bible it talks about eating grains, or so they have told me. The meat of the fields, is the quote I’ve heard so far. I do not want to contradict the Bible, but until I research that further, I’m staying away from them. Even still, they harvested them differently, then. I’ve lost the most weight in the shortest amount of time, gained energy, and feel better, by cutting out grains, and refined sugar. We’ve only been on this diet for 3 weeks, but I feel such a difference. I will be doing more research on the issues. Thanks for all the info. It’s great to get so much information in one place. It’s always great when you get to take charge of your health.
That book also tells you not to wear clothes made of more than one type of fiber, that slavery is perfectly fine, and all kinds of other absurd things. I don’t think it is the best place to go for nutritional, or any other type of, advice.
I’m sorry but I do have to disagree about reading the statement about the Bible and scientific facts. Things have changed allot in the last few thousand years. And I DO NOT believe in evolution! No one will ever convince me, and I’m not going to start that war. It’s a personal decision, and the answer does not start with evolution or Creation, but an entirely different subject that I will not go into since it’s neither the time or place.
There are many things in there we shouldn’t do, but just like any other history book, it tells you the whole story and not just the fluffy parts. Just like Alexander the Great, and Cesar, and all the other kings, did terrible things, we still put them in the record books. That doesn’t mean, just because they’re story is told we should follow them. But however if The God who you Pray, and Worship tells you to eat something, you better eat it. Like I said I haven’t researched this yet. I will be doing a study on it. I will not come to a conclusion without also keeping in mind that we do not have the same rituals they practiced 6-10,000 years ago. You do not have to be an evolutionist to learn about good nutrition, or about your health(since we should all want to keep learning). We just keep in mind what we’ve been told what is good, and what isn’t. Then research if we are staying true to the process or to for go them “product” all together. I do thank Mark for all the info. It has helped me, to know how to choose better foods. Back then they couldn’t tell you about the different oils, and cheeses, since they didn’t have them yet. That’s all.
It’s true, you don’t need to accept the fact of evolution to practice good nutrition, although it will certainly help you to be a more scientifically literate person and it will definitely help you to understand why certain food choices may be better than others. And, for the record, the Bible is a terrible history book; unless you think that our planet is the flat center of the universe, and that the sky is the only thing keeping the water in space from crashing down on our heads. I’m very interested in what you believe ‘the start of everything’ to be, if it involves neither evolution (Which, strictly speaking, does not really talk about the start of anything but picks up after everything has already begun. But that is just me being nitpicky.) nor creation.
Regardless of your evolutionary misconceptions, however, the fact remains that grains are not unhealthy; like everything else they can be detrimental to your health if eaten in excess, but they are a useful source of fiber as well as carbs, which are pretty essential for most people. And unless someone on here has a link to a serious, well-designed scientific paper I will very likely remain unconvinced.
I haven’t read that whole paper yet, but from the first 20 pages it seems that they are making a case more for moderation of the consumption of grains than for the complete exclusion of them from the diet, which I agree with. They don’t have enough nutritional value to justify basing an entire meal plan around them, but that doesn’t mean that they are going to kill you if you eat them frequently and in moderation.
I have read many of Mark’s articles with great interest and I finally feel I’ve read enough of them to form an opinion on his beliefs.
I think the way that Mark advocates eating is healthy, but it is also extreme and unrealistic for most people. To those who like it: Great! I’m glad it makes you feel good. But I doubt that it’s right for everyone. The “primal” diet requires unnecessary dietary restrictions and guilt over wanting to eat normal foods when a person could achieve the same results by counting calories, cutting out processed food, adding fruits and vegetables, and eating a moderate, healthy amount of whole grains. The paleo thing is just another bandwagon for people to obsess over and most of them to try and fail at because they lack the willpower to go the rest of their life without a sandwich or a slice of pizza. And I hardly believe that’s a fault of theirs. We live in a very different world than the cavemen did, and just as we are genetically predisposed to whole, natural foods, we are also predisposed to enjoying diverse types of food that we find palatable. I would rather see people make realistic changes to their diet that end up making a huge positive effect on their health than try something as extreme as cutting out ALL grains, failing, and going back to eating like crap all the time.
The only food that I believe is a complete unmitigated evil is refined sugar (and by extension “white” carbs), and this is due to personal experience. I cut sugar out of my diet and switched to eating only vegetables, fruits, nuts, lean meats, and whole grains. I lost tons of weight and never felt better. I no longer craved sugar or most refined carbs at all. But I also ate lots of grains.
I think the jury is still out on all extreme ways of eating. I think there are multiple dietary paths one can walk to achieve healthy eating, be it the Mediterranean diet of olive oil, protein, grains, and veggies, the Japanese diet of rice, fish, and veggies, or something of your own invention, as long as it includes whole, unprocessed foods with high nutritional value with the right ratios of protein, fat, and carbohydrate.
My personal opinions about healthy eating lean towards paleo, but I’ve simply seen nothing to suggest that grains are going to kill you. If it’s any consolation, I think that paleo is infinitely better than vegetarianism, which is a joke and is going to do nothing but make you sick and anorexic or sick and fat, depending on the quality of your diet. Or Atkins, the “all bacon, all the time” diet.
In closing: Don’t drink the Kool Aid, folks – on any nutritional belief. If Mark’s way of eating appeals to you and makes you feel good, do it. But if you want to focus on getting healthier and fitter without having to give up every single thing you enjoy eating, do your own research on nutrition and see what conclusions YOU come to, and change your diet accordingly.
I do examine my own beliefs (they certainly aren’t all correct – I’m only human and I don’t know everything) and I wasn’t condemning yours. I simply don’t share them. Had you had paid attention to the substance of my post, you would have noticed that I agreed with your beliefs on many points. I’m sure there are many people at MDA who can live this lifestyle and do it happily. I’m glad for them and you – as I stated. But I do not believe it is the ONLY way to get fit and healthy. That is where my beliefs and the beliefs of this website part ways. Other than that, I think you guys largely do good work. Anyone on a paleo diet is eating way better than the average American, whether they are 100% religious about omitting grains or not. Nor will I stoop to being unpleasant and condescending to sway someone to my opinion. I could care less if people share my beliefs – differences of opinion make the world go round. You do it your way, I’ll do it mine, and hopefully everyone makes decisions that leave them both happy and healthy.
Just wanted to mention that you can still eat pizza, bread, pancakes, and muffins. And you still get lots of calories, protein, carbs, and healthy fats. Just replace your flour with Almond flour, or another type of flour if you’re allergic to almonds. There’s a couple of recipes on here, like Primal pancakes, and Son of Groks’ pizza you could try. We’ve eliminated all flour, and trying to eliminate as much grains as we can. We eat them only when money is tight, or at a friends house. We eat lots of veggies, with a moderate side of meat most meals. Since finding out I’m expecting with our third child, I’ve been craving flour like foods, so I eat (almond) Maple Cinnamon muffins (that are amazing) and pancakes, and I’ve been craving meat, and eating more fruit and veggies. I’ve been eating tons of food, but still loosing a small amount of weight, (from the previous child weight gain). I started eating better just before I got pregnant and ever since I’ve been loosing about 1-2 lbs a week, I’m not dieting, just eating healthy. My body is getting rid of the excess body fat on it’s own. We can still eat at people’s houses, and I’m not going to completely stay away from grains, just if they are whole and only once in awhile. I will eat wild rice once in awhile, but not make my diet around them. I’ve found from Mark’s site he’s all about moderation, and do what you can. He just doesn’t like grains at all. If the way our soil and processing the wheat has no to little nutritional value, why eat them? You wouldn’t choose to eat another food, just cuz everyone else does, or it seems normal. Everyone eats at McDonald’s, should we eat there, because it’s normal? No, although you can eat there, and find some marginally nutritious food (like the salad), doesn’t mean you should be eating it. Just like we don’t eat iceberg lettuce, because of it’s low nutritional value, we don’t eat grains as a form of nutrition. I’m happy to hear you’ve lost weight by eating healthy and even with grains. Everyone has a different need, if it works for you and you have no problem with grains, more to you. Just wanted to let you know there are alternative recipes that you can make, just take out the refined flour (and other alterations. Even cutting out sugar will help you loose weight. Hope you stay healthy in your endeavor, how ever you choose to eat. We all wish everyone the best of health!
The ideas you have implemented with your family sound great. I would be interested in trying almond flour. I already use ground flaxseeds and flaxseed oil.
Thanks for telling me about it. I didn’t intend to sound rude in my earlier posts but I realize I probably did. You are absolutely right in that if anyone gets healthy, they eliminate a lot of the things Mark doesn’t like anyway, because there are many foods made from grain which are unequivocally terrible for you. I know that simply cutting out sugar helped me immensely. I just truly believe in moderation and doing what works for you. And you are right, eating grains because “everyone else does it” is not a good reason at all. I am just not convinced they are completely terrible or that anyone can yet prove that. But if you stop eating grains (or limit them) and feel better and lose weight, who cares what scientists (or anyone else) say? Obviously it works well for you and you are the best judge of your own health. That’s why I encouraged everyone to do their own research and figure out what works for them.
Careful with the flax…its very hard on your thyroid. The EFA’s contained within must be converted from ALA to EPA/DHA first. Better to get it from a source brand of cod liver oil. (No, Grok didn’t have it, but it’s pretty useful stuff anyway.)
The technical term is goitregen. As is soy, raw cruciferous veggies, fluoride, bromide (hey, that’s in BREAD!), millet, and a few other random things.
Here is a good list, if you are interested. It isn’t an exhaustive list, I don’t think, but worthwhile if you suspect an issue.
mmm….oatmeal. I’m sure humans aren’t actually meant to eat grains, but nowadays it seems like we’re not meant to eat anything depending on who you ask. who cares, I want to live my life! no one has ever died from eating grains, you know.
Hello, I found this article very interesting.
I do have a couple questions/comments though…
I do want to lose weight, but I find it hard to stick to diets(which is almost laughable in my case).
This “no grain” thing is intruiging..but I wonder what food is really left to consume(healthy-wise) for me.
I know this sounds silly so far, but let me explain that I am a vegetarian (have been for many many years). So it’s already like I am on a strict diet..and to tighten it more?
Most my diet consists of grains. If I take those out will I just be left with fruits and vegetables?
I do already know the answer to this (mostly), but I was wondering if anyone maybe had any ideas or suggestions.
Maybe I’m thinking too broad?
No grains means no spagetti/pasta, no bread, no pizza, no bakery sweets, no (tacos?) and such. (?)
Oh yes, and fyi I’m a vegetarian who hates salad. Why? Because it’s not filling to me, and seems only good with dressing…which are mostly bad for you anyway. So salads seem healthy…but aren’t very much in reality (so it seems to me).
@Kenzie: The answer to this is: stop being a vegetarian.
Please, please get and read “The Vegetarian Myth” by Lierre Keith, if you do nothing else today. You need animal fats and animal protein in order to really be healthy. Those are what our bodies evolved to eat. I know this goes against everything you’ve ever been told by doctors and nutritionists, but they are working on bad information from bad science that was done irresponsibly with an agenda.
Then, once you’ve read her book, get Mark’s book and read it, too. Please, for your own health’s sake. You’ll find this the easiest “diet” to stick to ever, because it’s not a diet. It’s avoiding processed crap and things we were never meant to eat – like grains. You can make tacos in a lettuce wrap and pizza on a cauliflower crust. Bread and pasta is out, but trust me, you’ll get used to not having bread or pasta anymore. They really are overrated, and terrible for you.
For filling food, you need fats and proteins first, and carbs last. Carbs are never filling. So have a salad with steak in it, or high-fat fish like tuna, or dark-meat chicken. As for salad dressings – the ones that are bad for you are the ones that have vegetable oils and sugar in them, like most “italian” dressings and pretty much all reduced-fat or fat-free dressings. If you make a good oil-and-vinegar dressing from olive oil, or if you make your own blue cheese dressing, they’re insanely good – and good for you.
Finally, stick around here and join the forums, and you’ll be able to ask and get answers to pretty much any question you have about the Primal way of eating and living. I’ve dropped nearly 80 pounds in six months and my blood sugars are completely under control. My doctor says my tests are non-diabetic now. My arthritis and migraines are gone (it turns out I’m allergic to both wheat and gluten) and I no longer have to use a wheelchair. Any of that sound familiar? If you’ve been a grain-dependent vegetarian for any length of time, I’d be surprised if you don’t have a bunch of physical health problems that your doctors can’t figure out.
It really perplexes me how anyone can take themselves seriously or expect others to take them seriously when they cry conspiracy like this. Tell me, exactly, what agenda doctors and nutritionists could possibly have to publish bad science saying that vegetarianism is good for you? Were they forced to do it by the extremely influential and powerful asparagus lobby?
It is very possible, and not even difficult, to get enough protein and fats in your diet as a vegetarian; there is nothing special about meats that make them the exclusive source of the types of fats and proteins that we need.
Your last paragraph is absolutely ridiculous. Whether or not all of that is true and exactly how you present it, it is irresponsible to say that removing grains from your diet caused it. It is much more likely that you made more than just simple dietary changes to get those kinds of results. Correlation is not causation, and since there isn’t a pandemic of people being killed/severely sickened by grains I think it is a safe bet that they aren’t any more dangerous than any other commonly consumed food.
I’m off all medications for my diabetes. I’ve made no other real changes than what I was eating. I stopped eating grains and sugars, and everything changed. If telling people about that is irresponsible, then I’ll happily embrace that label. I love being irresponsible when it means that people will stop eating the poison they’ve been told is food.
You see, I’ve seen proof that this is real and it works, and I’m far from the only one here who has. Your doubt is what’s ridiculous. The science is firmly on the side of people who eliminate Neolithic foods (and processed crap and vegetable oils) from their diets, and we’re going to outlive you doubters -and by a lot. So feel free to keep eating your poisonous grains. I’m opting out and I’m going to do everything I can to convince other people who need to stop eating them to opt out too, because I KNOW it works. I have my body and my lab tests as evidence.
You think there’s no pandemic of people being killed or severely sickened by grains? What do you call diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, and cancer – all of which have been conclusively linked to grains and sugars? Gee, I’d call that a pandemic.
It’s a shame that you can’t handle the truth, but then again, and sadly, most people can’t. Sorry to hear that you’re one of them. I won’t be responding to you further as I have better things to do with my time than argue with a brick wall. Have a good day, now.
Is that why when people have heart disease their doctors recommend that they stay away from grains and vegetables, but eat plenty of red meats?
Those are some pretty bold claims you’re making; show me a paper that links cancer to grains and sugars and I will concede that you are more informed than me. But I am very doubtful that you will do that, since there is no evidence to support that claim.
I am no more of a brick wall than you are, seeing as I am open to evidence contrary to my opinions. You see I am not going to belligerently stick to my guns if you prove me wrong; on the off-chance that I am incorrect about this I would love to be shown. So please, find some data to support your side and prove me wrong.
Doctors know nothing about nutrition. A close friend just finished med school at one of the best schools in the country. Had one nutritional seminar.
I was a vegan for 2 years. Tell me, how many studies have you found, legitimate studies, that prove being a vegetarian is healthy? Especially clinical studies, not broad observational studies. There are few, if any, of consequence. Believe me, I looked.
Who do you think pays for research?
Btw, I was healthiest as a vegan when I avoided grains. I avoided them because I did research at many sites, not just here.
Meat contains B12. That was easy.
Healthy meat has proper levels of Omega 3 fats.
A vegan diet can provide proper nutrition for some people and give them good health for some time. But it’s neither natural nor optimal and you will likely pay for it in the long run.
First of all, most doctors don’t keep up on the science that’s been coming out for the last ten years or so which roundly debunks the fat-is-bad, carbs-are-good hypotheses. They’re operating on medical knowledge that’s twenty years or more out of date. They got one day of nutrition classes in medical school, based on faulty research conducted by Ancel Keys in the first half of the last century, which he conducted with an anti-fat agenda. They know next to nothing about the science behind nutrition, and they’re in the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies. I don’t trust doctors any farther than I can throw them, and you shouldn’t either.
Here’s some books I recommend to people who doubt that this is real and that it’s supported by scientific findings:
The Great Cholesterol Con, by Anthony Colpo
Eat Fat, Lose Fat, by Mary Enig, Ph.D. and Susan Fallon
Mark’s book, of course
Protein Power LifePlan, by Drs. Michael and Mary Dan Eades, as well as their website at http://www.proteinpower.com
This video by Gary Taubes, who holds advanced degrees from Harvard and whose life work is debunking bad science, explaining the science behind this way of eating: http://www.dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm – this is a talk he gave at, I believe, Berkeley, explaining some of his findings in Good Calories, Bad Calories, which I also recommend.
You may also want to check out the movie “FatHead” by Tom Naughton, which explains most of this in a very entertaining and scientifically sound manner.
I wish you a good day looking at these links and reading these books. I hope this will show you that what you’ve been taught by conventional wisdom is nonsense and that we really do know what we’re talking about here at MDA.
Oh, and to Ray: all grains break down into glucose. So any grain you eat is really no different than eating straight white sugar. To your body, they’re exactly the same substance.
That’s pretty ridiculous. Your body doesn’t instantly break grains down into glucose; it takes time. Eventually they are broken down into simple sugars, but saying that eating grains is equivalent to eating straight sugar is exaggerating things quite a bit.
It really depends on the type of carb that you’re eating, too; complex carbs are broken down much more slowly than are simple carbs and will thus be converted into sugar and released into the blood stream more gradually.
Even if they don’t instantly become sugars, you still need to produce and process way more insulin on a high grain diet than what was considered normal in paleolithic times – a large stretch of time where our pancreas evolved the most… on a mostly ketone burning fat and vegetable based diet.
Our pancreas and insulin regulating systems clearly haven’t had enough time to evolve to our modern grain/sugar-based diets
@Ray: I’ve attempted to post links for you but I think they may have been eaten by MDA’s spam filter. I’ve notified Mark; hopefully they’ll show up at some point soon.
But you see, Ray, the point is that they ALL break down into glucose – whether slowly or quickly doesn’t make a bit of difference. Glucose causes an insulin response. An insulin-resistant body (as most American bodies are) can’t handle that much insulin or that much glucose, and it causes real health problems.
My blood sugar meter tells the truth: a meal of high-fat steak and a big-ass salad leaves my blood sugar in the 90s both before and after the meal (and I’ve tested at one, two, three and four hours after, and it’s never varied). A meal of regular semolina pasta or white rice with sauce? Sugar spike into the 180s two hours later, which is when blood sugar is supposed to return to “normal” after a meal. A meal of whole-wheat pasta or brown rice with sauce? Sugar spike into the 160s two hours later, and into the 240s three hours later (because of that vaunted digests-slower “advantage” you’re touting). That’s not an advantage – that’s cellular poison.
I would suggest that you work on learning about the science, instead of holding on to conventional wisdom that is laughable in its unscientific-ness.
Whether you think they are or not, most people aren’t diabetic and don’t need to worry about the occasional spike in blood-sugar. I’m not saying that everyone should have diets high in carbs, because you clearly shouldn’t if you are diabetic.
For most people that slower digestion is an advantage, since it will allow their bodies more time to naturally lower their blood sugar. A diabetic who is insulin resistant (I can’t recall if that is type I or II) should definitely watch their carb intake, and for them a diet without grains will almost certainly be beneficial.
However, since this is not the case for the majority of the nation’s population it is not very scientific to say that it is. I am very science literate, which is beneficial since I am currently studying math and biology, and I would never extrapolate results to the general population from a study on diabetics (or any other minority group), let alone a study performed on one person.
I would have to disagree with you. I think the high rates of insulin-dependent diseases, including diabetes but also including obesity, high blood pressure, and heart disease, are indicators that a rise in insulin is a problem for *everyone* in the nation (indeed, the Western world!), whether or not they’re diagnosed with insulin problems (for backup on these claims, please read the Eades’ book Protein Power and/or Protein Power LifePlan, although the earlier book goes into more detail about the connection between elevated insulin levels and diabetes/obesity/heart disease/high blood pressure etc., and they’ve had over 30 years of clinical practice to back up their claims).
Let’s face it, the pancreas eventually gives out if you flood the body with carbs repeatedly, as most Westerners do. We’re not designed to run exclusively or even primarily on glucose. If we were, the pancreas would be about six times as big as it is. Obviously we run on things other than glucose – primarily ketones. If you think about it, the science is sound.
I would really suggest that you read Mark’s book before continuing with this conversation. If you don’t believe it after you’ve read the science behind what he’s making public here, then more power to you – but a lot of your questions and skepticism could be answered by reading his book and a few others. (Like I said earlier, I posted a link comment and I think MDA’s spam filter probably ate it; I have contacted Mark and we’ll just have to wait for it to come back up.)
“Obviously we run on things other than glucose – primarily ketones.”
That right there is completely false. Our primary energy source is glucose; we are capable of using ketosis to convert fatty acids into something more usable, but it is definitely not the first thing our bodies go for.
This isn’t to say we can survive on only glucose, because we obviously need other nutrients, but those are used for mostly things besides providing us with energy. Our bodies even store excess energy in the form of glycogen, which is a carbohydrate. I’m not sure why our bodies would do this if carbs are so terrible for us…
Also, I cannot find anything that Eades has done or anything that proves he actually knows what he is talking about. From what I have found, however, it seems like a lot of what he wants to do is sell people books/supplements.
Fine, Ray. You believe what you like. I’m studying for a major examination, I’ve wasted far too much time on this conversation today, and I don’t have any more time available to continue trying to convince someone who doesn’t want to listen to the evidence available. Meantime, as I’ve already said before, I’ll be getting healthier and fitter, and living longer, and you can take your doubt wherever it will lead you – but it won’t be to health.
I don’t understand what you think you gave me that I should consider evidence… You do know that anyone can write a book and put whatever they want in it, right? Just because a publisher thought it would sell doesn’t mean that it has to have actual, factual information in it.
I want real proof. Without actual research which is done well and preferably peer-reviewed and replicated by other researchers there is no reason to believe the claims that you are making, if only because it makes absolutely no biological sense whatsoever.
I’d also like to point out that you haven’t argued against any of my claims. You’ve simply kept assuring me that it has, and will continue to, work for you and so it must be true. That is pretty overwhelming in its unscientific-ness.
Ray, the proof you want is in the books I’ve referenced. Colpo’s and Taubes’ books are chock-full of peer-reviewed research that you can look at. As I said, I do not have time to discuss this with you further. Have a nice day now.
Here’s the only good reason to eat grains: it beats starving to death when there are no other options. I’m glad my ancestors survived the Dark Ages long enough to reproduce.
But these days, we don’t have to eat poison to survive. And make no mistake, grains are poison.
I say this as somebody who ate and adored grains in generous quantities throughout life. How I laughed, reading the grain-lover comments to this article! “But grains are tasty!” “But what would I eat if not grains?” “I’m a real guy from the street who really understands what’s going on (so don’t confuse me with the science)!” LOL. In my carb days I would probably have written something similar. So would many of my morbidly obese relatives.
But one day in my carefree youth, my intestines basically fell apart. I spent seven years baffling the doctors and wondering what progressive, degenerative illness I had contracted before I found the Primal Blueprint and tried ditching grains. Within a week all my symptoms were gone.
But lifelong eating habits leave their mark. This weekend I decided that as a treat for being so orthodox, I’d try one of my old favorite foods, some lightly breaded chicken nuggets (Chick-Fil-A, if you must know). There were only 30g of carbs in the whole thing, and I was really feeling fit, so I thought, surely I can stomach this. Could a tiny amount of grain — just enough to provide a crispy texture — really be so bad? It didn’t feel bad after eating. In fact I rather enjoyed the fleeting carb rush.
But this morning, the bill came due. My weight spiked overnight by three pounds, from the look of it all on my belly, and rather than springing out of bed as usual, I felt sluggish and slept in. Thank goodness today’s a fast day and my metabolism is back under control.
Hear Mark now and listen to him later: Grains are poison!
I told myself I was done with this, but I cannot let this kind of ignorance float around unabated. It doesn’t make any sense at all, whether grains are good for you or bad for you or neutral, for 30g of carbs to make your weight spike by 3 lbs.
It takes ~3500 Calories for you to gain 1 pound. There are about 4 Calories per gram of carbohydrate. There were ~4*30=120 Calories in the chicken you ate, which is way less than would be noticeable on its own. Also, fat doesn’t only go to one spot. It is spread throughout the body, albeit unevenly so it might appear as though it all went to your belly.
Ah, I see you’re really making use of the resources I pointed at, Ray. Except not, because if you had, you’d know that it’s actually a quite common reaction for someone avoiding grains to have when they come into contact with grains. If you’d read “Life Without Bread,” for example, you’d know that.
Therefore, I call shenanigans on your request for proof, as it’s obvious you don’t really want any. If you did, you would have gone and read some of the resources I pointed you at before responding here again. Now the truth comes out: you’re just a troll, and that means I don’t have to pay any further attention to anything you say.
The thing is, you and I are apparently using different definitions for the words ‘proof’ and ‘science.’ You see, I don’t consider a book to be science. Unless it is actually peer-reviewed (which is uncommon for books) then I am not going to bother with it. I don’t want the author’s opinion, I just want the facts.
And it doesn’t make any sense at all that a small amount of carbs would make you gain weight. Unless it was all water weight, in which case it doesn’t really count, then I am very skeptical that it happened that way.
You linked to some articles, but not really scientific ones. A short, one page writeup does not count as a scientific argument. You should probably lay off the ad hominems, too; whether or not my life is misguided does not change the facts.
Anywyas if you want to take the scientific route, Ray, it is you that has to defend your grain-is-healthy theory – since it’s the new guy on the block. The default for humans for for hundreds of thousand of years has been a ketone-burning high fat 0 grass grain diet.
If you could find definitive proof that modern populations eating mass amounts of grains and having mostly a sugar-burning metabolism are actually healthier than primitive pre-agricultural revolution humans, I’d like to hear it. Otherwise I’m sticking to the default diet for humans: animals, fats, vegetable plants, ketones and the occasional seasonal fruits/carby foods. No grains, minimal sugars.
Honestly, I’ve read this conversation with sheer amazement.
Ray, seriously, you claim to be so “science literate” yet you don’t even remember which type of diabetes you’re arguing about??????? Yeah, there’s scientific literacy at it’s best!!!!!!
Let’s hope no diabetic ever has to rely on you in an emergency.
By the way, Timothy did not say he gained three pounds of fat – just three pounds of weight. Obviously that’s not fat from 30 grams of carbs, it’s water, inflammation and bloating. Duh! That doesn’t mean it “doesn’t count” as you say. I’m quite sure Timothy found it extremely uncomfortable and unpleasant.
Griff has provided you with many resources enabling you to find the actual studies involved here. Yes, particularly the books – Oh, I know, books can say anything and don’t have to be scientific. Obviously the ones you have been reading qualify as that kind of crap. However, the books Griff has sent you to contain all the references to actual high quality, peer reviewed studies – you are then able to find these studies for yourself without too much effort (as many people have done) and check them out – just like the authors did. Then, and only then, can you comment on whether the books are valid in the conclusions drawn.
Griff has wasted precious time from his life (which I’m sure he wishes he had back)trying to help you and pointing you toward the evidence you say you require. You have provided nothing (allow me to repeat – NOTHING)to support your argument at all. You just like to say “No! I’m right and you’re wrong.” I’d be willing to bet you were the kid who used to freak out if he were losing the game, start shouting at your friends and then take your bat and ball and go home.
I certainly hope you allow some open mindedness into your life and actually try to find out what’s true. It could save your life and perhaps those you love, particularly if they believe your claim of scientific literacy and take your advice on this basis.
Griff, I realise this comment is being made well after the events here took place, but if you ever do read it again. Please allow me to say “Congratulations on your patience and willingness to try to help these people. You are certainly far more patient than I.” I personally branded Ray a troll way before you were willing to give up on him. You are obviously a very good person.
I’m glad I stumbled across this website because for the most part, grains were not a big part of my diet, but then I “felt” like I should be eating some kind of grain, and I started incorporating oatmeal, but then I started bloating and having IBS (which I have never had when I wasn’t eating ANY grains, come to think of it) and I just noticed that when I do eat grains, the IBS flares up as opposed to when I’m just eating fresh vegetables and fruits. I currently eat a diet consisting mainly of fruits and vegetables and some meat occasionally. The only problem I have with meat is that the meat that is readily available today is pumped full of hormones and god knows what else. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on a “healthier” type of meat, such as organic (but that can be pricey) or maybe fish is a better option? Thanks 🙂
Thanks for all the information 🙂 now I finally understand why I started bloating recently. I’ve been doing a lot of research and cut out all processed foods. Since then, I’ve lost about 7lbs. Naturally, I cut out “whole grains” because they were processed as well.. But I felt guilty because I’ve been raised my whole life on grains and was taught that they were “essential”.. You know what they say, “bad habits die hard.” So I added in some oatmeal back into my foods and for some incredulous (to me) reason, I started bloating and getting digestive issues like IBS. I was completely baffled and I did some research on the internet. Some websites said that it was only my digestive system “getting used to” the amount of fiber I was adding into my diet.. But c’mon, I think my body would be able to tell me that something isn’t right and that I should listen to my body.. which led me to your website.. Needless to say, it all made sense and I cut out my oatmeal. No more bloating. IBS is going away.
Thank you, thank you.
And I just ordered a copy of your book after scouring your website.
Thank you for having the guts to tell the truth amidst all the lies that those agribus and meat lobbyists feed us 🙂
i’ve stumbled across this site, and very interested in this Primal way of eating….before i had 2 kids i was vegetarian (lacto-ovo) for 15 years since age 15. but i developed asthma; so i researched and discovered macrobitotics. i ditched milk; asthma much better. however i still did grains. after kids arrive—things too hectic, pbj sandwiches very easy! now kids are teens and i am 40-ish and weight seems to be an issue. however, while i can see the harm of refined grains, i cannot imagine the dangers of whole grain brown rice. i guess i’ll have to get this book!
You speak much about “primal living” and how it would ultimately exclude grains, but how does that explain the several hundreds of decidedly “primal” tribes that exist in Africa, Asia or South America that live off rice? Sure, they will hunt down animals for meat and gather and farm as many fruits and vegetables as they can, but without rice and its consistency, many of them would starve and die. That doesn’t sound like a very long life to me.
Don’t get me wrong, I can see the beauty of the primal lifestyle that you’re promoting. But that’s just it: it’s a lifestyle. You’ve got your beliefs and I’ve got mine, and when it all comes down to it, are either one of us really going to live past 100 or so? The oldest living humans on Earth who have surpassed 100 did not exclude grains or even alcohol (hell, a lot of them drank a glass of wine every day). Some of the oldest living people are Okinawans, and while the majority of their diet is veggies, they do not exclude rice.
So you think we haven’t “evolved” to digest grains? Then why do we? I haven’t keeled over and died and I’ve been eating rice and bread all my life. Cellulose is something we can’t digest. Grains? Sure we can.
Again, I do not mean to insult the primal lifestyle: if you want to live it, and live it fully, then more power to you. It’s just that this whole holier-than-thou position so many of you are taking is offputting and you can shove as many facts as you like (padded with as much sarcasm as you could muster), but as long as you keep insulting people, they aren’t going to take you seriously.
I agree with the primal lifestyle. But I have one burning question, now that I’ve ordered a freezer-full of grass-fed organic ostrich, elk and venison. I have a horse, so I’ve noticed how grasses turn to grain when they “head out”. Relished by herbivores. So is this natural “grain” different from the processed grains given to livestock? Don’t herbivores eat grains in nature?
If grains ARE hard to digest for humans (and they certainly are), then it indicates and points to incompatability for the human requirements of nutriion and proper food stuff mandated by nature over millions of years…
OK, taking it a logical step further, MEAT is even HARDER to digest, process, assimilate, etc than most grains could ever be… a dense, low water content (mostly dehydrated), no fiber for bowel/bolus propulsion through the intestines, etc…
Does anyone ever take things to logical conclusions instead of staying with surface level, superficial levels of thought, contemplation, and questioning/reasoning?
Digestion, ease and machination of digestion, etc and anatomical/physiological
NECESSITY mandate what we, as humans or any species, SHOULD BE EATING…
meat SOUNDS good for it’s protein density, and few vitamins, heme iron, etc.
but it’s not digested well or simply by the human organism, whether you have indigestion or not after eating it.. so how can everyone have it so right on the grains (which are food for birds/fowl), but not on the core of the nutrition argument in Paleo ciricles, which is MEAT consumption…
PS. Cultural and habitual norms and historical data prove NOTHING on what dictates a healthy human diet…
Because humans DID eat meat for a lengthy period, doesn’t mean we ARE MEANT TO EAT IT…
I CAN eat a large pizza or cheese burger fries and coke, and still live till 40-50-60yrs old, it doesn’t mean I am MEANT TO IT… this is the same logical incongruency that is being used by meat advocates…
I take it you’re a vegan and animal rights is your motivation.
You didn’t really get what the article was talking about.
Also, meat is slow to digest. True. But not difficult. You might want to do a bit of research there. That’s a common myth I’ve seen in many vegetarian circles.
We evolved on varying amounts of meat through the ages.
Fyi, I was a vegan for 2 years. I’m pro animal rights. I’ve done a lot of research on these topics.
Also: “Meant to eat it?” Meant implies some sort of intent. Whose intent? Some higher authority or what you hope is the one true way?
Also, I thought it was kinda funny that your penultimate line was that sometimes you should f@#$ science and start doing science. Y’know, since all science is is experiments…
This is the biggest CROCK OF SHIT I have ever heard. You grain bashers are so full of shit it ain’t even funny! Your arguments are ridiculous and all this talk about primal diet, caveman, neolithic, stone age is a bunch of horseshit. I would hate to be that stupid!
Freya Stark wrote something like, [you can’t be happy if what you believe in is not what you do.] Come on now, let everybody have their own feelings and thoughts. You all alone are your greatest experiment. I’m not Mark’s, or a corporation’s experiment, I’m simply me and I will keep reading and learning till the day I die and whether or not that’s from diabetes or heart disease or whatever else! Well that’s not for me to know but I guess I’ll find out.
And for the record, I’ve been “grok’n it” and feel f***ing GREAT! And it’s all about feeling good so I’m happy. Not only with diet but my exercise, I’m an athlete and spent an hour climbing trees yesterday and I’m sore! Thanks to all open minded doctors and clinical nutritionists, biologists, anthropoligists etc. and thank you Mark! This site rocks. Go have fun.
wow. nice article. Im so used to eating grains and I can’t change much of that because my family would be soo mad about changing ‘lifestyle’ again. I’m still a teenager so as long as im under their roof I’ll probably have to stick with the G word ( for your sake 😉 )
So mark, what carbs do u intake other than from fruits and veggies?
and how many fruits per day is too much? cus I eat alot! (most worried about the sugar)
Although there maybe no scientific significance to starches, there is definitely a historical, cultural, and religious context that should be held as important.
Maybe you should just moderate it, I’m sure a man’s stomach can handle a bit of delicious bread. Or the taste of a freshly baked pretzel, the big oversized ones with kosher salt on them. Just eat one once in a while instead of 4 of them twice a week.
Ok firstly i agree with what the basic premise that grains are bad from a practical and anecdotal standpoint. So my questioning here is mearly to foster debate rather than critisise the advice. Firstly the idea that we do not have the genes to “metabolise” the proteins in grains is debatable (1) evolution of genes is not limited to species and a comparison of genomic sequences from species able to utilise grains and humans would be interesting and may clear some of this debate up (2) long term gene expression can often be influenced by our diet and it is possible that eating grains at an early stage of life may permanently upregulate the genes involved in digestion of the dreaded grain proteins (3) should wild oats be included in this category, essentially gluten free and containing proteins with clinically proven benefical immunomodulatory effects as well as fibres which also have a prebiotic effect that are benefical to your gut flora, – see beta glucans, whilst these benefits have been more assoicated with beta glucans from mushrooms the is a growing consensus to the value of oats. just to lend some credence to my question i am a qualified geneticist specialised in nutrigenomics working in the realm of functional foods with a lifelong interest in sports and human performance
Ok firstly i agree with what the basic premise that grains are bad from a practical and anecdotal standpoint. So my questioning here is mearly to foster debate rather than critisise the advice. Firstly the idea that we do not have the genes to “metabolise” the proteins in grains is debatable (1) evolution of genes is not limited to species and a comparison of genomic sequences from species able to utilise grains and humans would be interesting and may clear some of this debate up (2) long term gene expression can often be influenced by our diet and it is possible that eating grains at an early stage of life may permanently upregulate the genes involved in digestion of the dreaded grain proteins (3) should wild oats be included in this category, essentially gluten free and containing proteins with clinically proven benefical immunomodulatory effects as well as fibres which also have a prebiotic effect that are benefical to your gut flora, – see beta glucans, whilst these benefits have been more assoicated with beta glucans from mushrooms the is a growing consensus to the value of oats. just to lend some credence to my question i am a qualified geneticist specialised in nutrigenomics working in the realm of functional foods with a lifelong interest in sports and human performance
About 30–35% of the weight of hempseed is hempseed oil or hemp oil, an edible oil that contains about 80% essential fatty acids (EFAs); i.e., linoleic acid, omega-6 (LA, 55%), alpha-linolenic acid, omega-3 (ALA, 22%), in addition to gamma-linolenic acid, omega-6 (GLA, 1–4%) and stearidonic acid, omega-3 (SDA, 0–2%). Whole hempseed also contains about 25% of a highly-digestible protein, where 1/3 is edestin and 2/3 are albumins. Its amino acid profile is close to “complete” when compared to more common sources of proteins such as meat, milk, eggs and soy.[20] The proportions of linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid in one tablespoon (15 ml) per day of hemp oil easily provides human daily requirements for EFAs. Unlike flaxseed oil, hemp oil can be used continuously without developing a deficiency or other imbalance of EFAs.[21] This has been demonstrated in a clinical study, where the daily ingestion of flaxseed oil decreased the endogenous production of GLA.[21]
Hempseed is an adequate source of calcium and iron. Whole hempseeds are also a good source of phosphorus, magnesium, zinc, copper and manganese.
Hempseed contains no gluten and therefore would not trigger symptoms of celiac disease.
I’ve been on the paleo lifestyle for one week and I already have more energy, less bloating after eating, and no blood sugar crash from an insuln spike. You vegans, veggies, and grain digesters need to wake up and eat some meat before you’re too weak to lift a fork.
Okay, wait. So, I’m not supposed to have red meat, processed food, refined sugar, most dairy, OR grains? What in gods name am I SUPPOSED to eat? I honestly cant live on just fruits and veggies.
Where’d you get the idea you weren’t supposed to eat red meat? You certainly didn’t get it from this website! And Mark isn’t completely anti-dairy like the “orthodox paleo” crowd, as long as it’s minimally processed — raw, grass-fed, and A2 instead of A1 casein.
You shouldn’t eat red meat that comes from factory farms. The science about red meat’s disadvantages only looked at that kind. Not the grass-fed and wild stuff.
Does anyone else get a puffy feeling from eating grains? It’s not a bloated feeling nor a gassy feeling. And it’s not something that can be measured on a scale. It’s just a feeling of being puffy. Overinflated. Anyone?
Dear Mark,
Firstly id like to say i follow a mostly primal style of nutrition. However there are a number of questions i have regarding some points you have made. You have said that from an evolutionary perspective humans do not possess the genes required to metabolise proteins present in grains, specifically the gluten proteins. Where did you get this information ? Have you looked at any genomic information to back this statement up ? Secondly you have referenced the occurence of antibodies against gluten in “non-celiac” patients as being evidence that gluten induces inflammatory responese etc ? However i feel this is a massive leap of reasoning to make based on a single biomarker without taking any alternative mechanisms into consideration. Also the blanket term grains to include all variety of oats is somewhat strange in that epidemiological evidence and both animal and human clinical studies are showing massive health benefits etc.
The best thing to go for doubters who believe grains, either in moderation or full on, has no or little impact on their health and/or fat loss is to simply try it for themselves. if anything improve at all, be it: more restful sleep, less gas, no bloating, relieved arthritis or coming off meds… You will have your proof.
Just seeing it written by Mark or even tested in labs then reviewed by a panel of peers will always be second hand other wise.
Although Griff may come off as obnoxious (not a dig, btw, just an observation :))he does have two thing that many disbelieves don’t and that’s perspective from both sides AND personal positive results.
All the reading and studying in the world isn’t going to give us that level of belief therefore it should be a guide for disbelief either… If the purpose was to in fact get to the truth!
this is definitely an interesting concept, yet i don’t know if i could actually give up grains. i’ve tried before to give up grains because a lot of people with eczema notice a decrease in flare-ups when they do, but it made no different for me on that front.
my main concern would simply be that i can’t eat meat; it puts my body out of commission and i find more trouble from it than wheat or dairy or anything else for that matter. so this would make what i can and can eat seriously limited. perhaps i’ll try gradually cutting down and see how that feels, figure out some things to fill up on.
In my 20’s I went on a health food regime (lots of whole grains), then I was a vegetarian for 7 years in my 30’s/40’s. The whole time I was eating “healthy” and a vegetarian I had horrible digestive problems (bloating, gas, gut pain).
My digestive system is still sensitive, no doubt due to the years of “healthy” eating, so now I even need to be careful with some raw veggies. However meat, eggs, fruit and most veggies are no problem for me to digest. Go figure! lol
“[grains] are a distinctly Neolithic food that the human animal has yet to adapt to consuming.”
Humans are adapted, quite well, by evolutionary standards. Grains allow for predictable and abundant food supplies. They allow for permanence of place which in turn allows for the accumulation of capital and security. They allow greater mixing of populations and thus greater genetic diversity.
That means that grains allowed an explosion of human population, which is all that evolution cares about. The negative effects only occur after the reproductive years, after evolution has had its fill.
So if it’s the numerical state of the human race you care about, grains are the way to go. If its individuals you care about, if it is your own health and long life you care about, grains are not. Grains trade longevity for fecundity. That trade is a no-brainer for Evolution, but of course, in the modern world, that is a trade that need not even be made.
I agree and disagree: for those of us who can afford the luxury of an all vegetable, fruit, fish/meat diet, I’d agree that that’s the healthiest choice.
But give grains a little respect! Like you said, they were the agricultural revolution: arguably the reason we developed any permanent settlements –> cities –> governments –> fancy things like cars and computers!
Grains kept a large population well-fed and energetic enough to build pyramids…or, if you really think about it, grains were/are “slave food”/”working class food”.
(On an aside: I’m completely addicted to white sour dough bread.)
Hey I’ve just tried barley grass,in a month lots of little aches and pains have vanished,don’t know too much about the grain argument, but do know I am gluten intolerant and have cut back on bread.
At 51 have a 31 inch waist at 77 KG 5.9 height 5%BF and a 46″ chest and do lots of Yoga lots of good food,practice a”forgive attitude”
(Thats probabley been the hardest of all.)
How about we we all Respect the other persons veiwpoint because as for “science” there are more things unexplained than we’ll ever know,so chill let get of our “high horse stance”(save that for the politicians)and get on with getting on.
Because what I do know from 30 years in the health and fitness industry is what works for you may just not necessarily work for someone else!
Kim
It seems very funny to me that people keep insisting that we “need” whole grains when it’s only been a few thousand years since we started eating grains.
And then there’s the theory about whole grains acting like a broom on your intestines and sweeping tings through. I fell victim to this theory in the Health Food heyday of the 1970’s. I’d always been constipated, even as a baby, so the idea that whole grains could resolve that appealed to me. Unfortunately, I ruined my digestion by eating high fiber foods. Instead of fixing my constipation, “health foods” backed me up even more, gave me gas, bloating and terrible pains after virtually every meal. I was miserable. I went on elimination diet after elimination diet, trying to find the foods that were causing the problem. Nothing made any difference. By that time, my gut seemed sensitive to everything!
One thing I did notice, however, was that a fast food meal was about the only food I could eat that didn’t leave me in agony afterward. No doubt because of the ultra-low fiber. However, I still didn’t get it.
I tried vegetarianism (for 7 years) in an attempt to get even more healthy… because I thought that my digestive problems must be because I wasn’t eating healthily enough.
Finally, I stopped being vegetarian and my digestion improved. However, the damage had been done. I was told by both a Naturopath and a Gastroenterologist that I had to eat low fiber food (white bread, white rice, etc.) because my bowels were so irritated by all the health food.
To relieve my constipation, the Gastroenterologist put me on senna tablets. These worked like a charm. Once my bowels were moving regularly, the other symptoms receded.
He told me I had a “lazy bowel” (my mother always said I was “born constipated”) and that all the fiber in the world wasn’t going to resolve that; it was only going to back up in my system and make it worse. I could attest to that! On the other hand, the senna makes the bowel contract (which mine doesn’t do very well). It works perfectly for me.
Now, I have only been on the Primal Blueprint path a few days, but I have dropped 1.5 pounds, sleep better, wake up more refreshed, have no stiffness in my feet in the morning (I’m 60 years old, by the way), feel more energized and am NEVER hungry. I have simply stopped thinking about when my next meal is. I sometimes don’t feel hungry until 3 o’clock in the afternoon, after a PB breakfast.
Yesterday, I had a high-carbohydrate (grain-based) day (100% vegetarian, but not vegan). I woke up bloated and gassy this morning and my feet were stiff when I got out of bed. I am dragging myself around, don’t feel like doing anything and can hardly wait until the grains are out of my system. On the Primal Blueprint diet, I eat fresh vegetables and fruit, which give me all the carbs I need and don’t leave me feeling horrible like this.
Am I particularly sensitive to grains? Possibly. But that’s why we can’t say that grains are good for everyone. We have to be open and curious. Closed-mindedness would never have led me to this solution, one that works so well for me.
I still have to take senna every day. But that’s because I was born with a lazy bowel; it can’t be fixed with high-fiber foods. Been there; almost killed me. It might not be fixed with the PB diet. But it’s early days yet, so that remains to be seen. The other benefits of the PB diet have so far proven to be so beneficial that whether it fixes my lazy bowel or not is irrelevant. I’ve had that my entire life.
Oh, and to those of you who are about to say that my system will get used to the senna and it will stop working, my Gastroenterologist says that idea has been dis-proven. And, after ten years, the same dosage is still working fine for me.
Stay open-minded, folks! Never say never. Don’t let stubbornness cause you to overlook a possible solution to your aches, pains, discomforts and illnesses. And that goes for the chronic dieters among you, as well as the health care professionals. Think outside the box… especially the cereal box!
I tried giving up wheat recently. But it had a nasty backlash in my system. I started getting fevers, chills, aches and white hot headaches lasting hours behind my eyes. just keeping them open kept me in pain. i slept 16 hours a night for 3 nights. this was just four or five days after stopping eating wheat and grains. At one point my roommate, a doctor, asked when i had started the change in my diet. and advised me to eat some wheat. i had some flour tortilla for a midnight snack, and the next day the headaches stopped, the fever didn’t come back, by the afternoon, after some more flour tortilla snacks w/ meat and rice, I felt 100% better again.
I googled around and found a few posts about wheat withdrawal, which seemed to match up with what occured with me. If i go off wheat again, it’ll be a slower process to give myself more time to adjust.
@ vince – yes, gluten withdrawal is very real. When I gave up gluten 7 yrs ago I felt worse for the first 3 days. I am so glad someone warned me or I might have given up right then. On day 4 I noticed my knees no longer hurt as I walked down steps. That was the first of many health improvements I experienced. I also noticed that I feel better if I avoid all grains.
So I’ve been on this diet for a little more than two weeks, cut out the grains and started eating more meat and veggies to compensate. Here are some things that I’ve noticed:
1. Hungry Pangs are gone. Completely. I get hungry, but never in any sort of sudden wave or extreme stomach irritability that I did when I was eating the carbs.
2. I’m never gassy. And I used to have TERRIBLE gas. This diet has been nothing short of miraculous when it comes to eliminating digestive problems.
3. I never get bloated. I used to eat until I was stuffed. On this diet, satiation occurs without having to stuff your face. It’s just more filling without having an uncomfortable fullness afterward.
4. My fatty liver disappeared. I actually had symptoms of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease when I was eating grains. Since then, the disease has gone away.
That’s what’s happened so far. I’m hoping to loose some weight on this diet in addition to fixing a lot of my other food related problems. Seeing that I just don’t need to eat as much any more to feel full, I figure this should come naturally. Thanks Mark.
It is true that America spends more than three trillion dollars/year for a “health care system” composed of diseases, 80% of which are totally preventable by lifestyle change…given that there is a worldwide epidemic of prediabetes and diabetes it is clear that most people need to consider a “diabetic diet” for life….but how can a meat based diet be sustained with a global population of almost seven billion people now …with the number to double before 2050?
It can’t. But a grain-based diet will kill off a bunch of people who won’t listen to the science behind the Paleo way of eating.
We should never have had this many people in the first place. Agriculture is what caused the population explosion – to all our detriment, at least as far as nutrition and health is concerned.
I totally agree with you Griff. I understand how agriculture has brought us to here. I come from a hardcore agrarian society(at least my gr8 grndad), in southern india where rice is cultivated. Today, you can
buy 40 kg of rice for just US$1 in my state. I am not kidding. Its heavily subsidised, the only way to feed the poor.
I loved eating primal in Melbourne,AU but after coming back to India it was totally impossible to eat primal though i can afford it.I don’t wanna trumpet but i am well off.The reason is plain simple , all the butchers’ here are the filthiest place. You can see the blood running in the small gutter(4inch) from backside of the shop to the front main gutter(2foot wide open sewer) in front of the shop near the door, on top of which he has a wooden log table where he chops the meat. Above that are iron hooks which has couple of goats and chicken hanging covered fully with house flies(u know there is sewer directly below). You may wonder its 3rd world country and the price will be so low that these guys can’t afford refrigeration, chicken breast will cost arnd US$5-6 per kg which is a lot for indian GDP, yet they can’t afford cooling,disenfection,protective wear,sanitary supplies etc. All they have is cages for chicken,logs, crude knives and In rare cases a stainless steel table. Fish is even worse. I’ve seen ppl standing in the filth-scales and fish heads carpeting the floor.
Maybe there’ll be one supermarket or two in the city which has cold storage but people rarely go there to buy meat cuz its mostly old. Not to mention we have mandatory 3 hr power supply hold off – enough to contaminate in 95deg F.
This is inhumane than those videos that i see on youtube posted by PETA. Trust me, its ghastly. Inhumane animals and humans alike.
The best i would do is go early in the morning to get a readily killed bird/goat. I can only be so much optimistic and iron willed.
What would you do if that is the only way you could buy meat?I won’t even call myself unfortunate.
I listen(try to follow) to the science behind Paleo way of eating but can u give me better option than eating grain based diet and killing myself. On the bright side 99.9% of the produce are locally grown. I can buy a variety leafy greens and purples.All within 50km radius. Fresh RAW milk every morning home delivered and if i want buffalo milk too. Cheap coconuts and its oil(fresh,unbleached).palm fruit and mangoes. Homemade butter, ghee.
I do my best.
I’m wondering if there’s anyone in this comment thread supporting this way of eating who ever exercises.
Ever.
Cut all the carbs out of a cyclist’s diet and see how well she does in her next race.
Get off the couch you fat dummies.
If you had something important to say, someone might listen to you. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, you’re so emotionally attached to your own nutritional ideas that you feel the need to throw around insults instead of having a discussion.
I shouldn’t expect anything less from a troll. You probably just want the attention instead of trying to convince anyone here. So, here you go, have the last laugh. You win, I guess.
troll maybe…
Some people look at this stuff and are just so indoctrinated by conventional wisdom that they spit in the face of this information without giving it a chance in their minds. Its an example of being intolerant, and they should be ashamed.
Also, Id like to say that as a health professional, I understand the importance of peer reviewed, scientific evidence. However, nothing even becomes researched before its an idea, or a question. No scientist does research on something randomly, only to find some breakthrough. Yet people come to a website where someone is trying to promote an idea, and they demand science. I really think evidence based clinical decision making is making us stupid…
Some other things NOT proven by science: fitness = health
endurance training/ cardio = necessary for good health
In fact, a good portion of conventional wisdom has NO grounding in science.
P.S. — people who think they need grains for carbs and fibre… um, have you ever heard of fruits and vegetables?
Thank God I read this article Mark, I’m suffering from a mysterious knee injury and because of it I’m suffering from minor depression. I was on the primal diet for about a month before it and it was the best thing I’ve ever done. However because of this minor depression I said to myself I don’t give a shit I’m gonna eat whatever I want, luckily the worst I was eating was whole grains, Thanks again for the post mark your the man, I wish there was more people on the same boat you are on, around me more often.
Watch the following video and comment. It came from a credible health/fitness website. The authors of the web site have decided to follow the diet. It’s possible to ‘prove’ any idea or opinion.
Vegetarians should be shot and we should all feast on their remains. Not kidding. We’d get them out of the way, get fed, and not have to worry about disposal. What could be more sensible than cannibalism?
If you cut out grains and sugars, then where are people going to get their main source of carbohydrates. Complex carbohydrates are needed metabolites for brain function and the average person needs to eat at least 130g of carbohydrate per day. This is to prevent ketosis, or the build up of keto acids that form when a person eats more fat or protein than carbohydrates needed to completely catabolize them.
Fiber is also needed in the diet. It has been proven to prevent colon cancer and diverticulitis.
Carbohydrates are in fruit, nuts, strachy veggies and greens. Tons of fiber is in the skin of apples, pairs, zucchini and other yummies :). I get plenty of both carbs and fiber daily without grains… and prefer the fresh stuff too.
Kristi: Complex carbs – indeed, any carbs – are not necessary for the body to function. Or the brain, either. Look up “gluconeogenesis” and be enlightened – the body can produce adequate glucose from ingested protein.
Fiber is actually damaging to the intestine. Eat fat! That’ll grease your insides and make things move along MUCH more healthfully than fiber ever could.
A datum point: I am 71 and have not had any serious health issues, have never been more than 15# above my normative weight (and usually within 10#) and have been a habitual high carb consumer. That is, until about 3 years ago when my doctor said that my cholestrol level and blood pressure were borderline and I should try to adjust my diet else I would end up with meds. So I tried (6 months per) low fat and near vegan menues, keeping my caloric intake constant (1900kC). The result was that the undesirable effects were controlled but I could not stand the food, particularly drastic salt reduction. So
I then tried the low carb menu (more or less Paleo)and have now been on it for 2-1/2 months and I am amazed by the positive results ( I am a natural sceptic). The food tastes great, my blood pressure is 110/70, flatulence is almost gone, dry skin (on heels)is disapearing,mild gum disease/plaque has improved. Blood panel will be done at annual checkup (2 months) and will be the definitive indicator. I indulge myself in a daily capucino and a slice of homemade sourdough bread (life is not worth living without some indulgence?)which make up about 45 gm carbs from a total of just under 150.I would not have believed the claims on this site had I not tried the diet myself. BTW I admire Mark’s posts for their balance and lack of zeal, the latter a turnoff for any sceptic.
Karen: I would laugh at you because it’s obvious you haven’t a clue what you’re talking about and haven’t done the research, but I try not to mock the ignorant. However, I’ll address your points, such as they are.
First, Dr. Atkins died as the result of a slip-and-fall injury on an icy sidewalk, which fractured his skull and put him into a coma. Because of the glucose drip he was given in the hospital for “nourishment,” he ballooned in weight (glucose is what causes you to get fat, not fat). Here’s a copy of his death certificate: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/atkinsmed3.html The immediate cause of his death is listed on his OFFICIAL DEATH CERTIFICATE as “Blunt impact injury of head with epidural hematoma” – that is, a blood clot inside the skull, causing pressure on the brain and the resulting coma, due to a fall. NOWHERE on his death certificate does it say ANYTHING about weight causing his death, so sorry, but you’re wrong.
Second, I will agree that steak is not as good for you when it’s industrially produced, so look for grass-fed beef and have steaks from that. But your assertion that saturated fat causes heart disease has been debunked by scientific study so many times it’s not worth arguing with you about. Go read Gary Taubes’ “Good Calories, Bad Calories,” which refers to literally hundreds of these studies, and be enlightened there, too. Or even better – go watch this video, which is a lecture he gave on the science:
I’m not Ray, and he is an overbearing boor (not to mention an idiot).
On the other hand, I know I’m right about this subject, and I have zero patience for people who don’t get the facts and the science behind what Mark says. If that makes me an overbearing boor, so be it. I’ll wear the title proudly. At least I’m not going to die of heart disease or diabetes like Ray.
Griff, as I mentioned above in a reply to Ray – I think you are obviously a very good person, and very patient to boot. Congratulations on even trying with these people – and backing up the truth with evidence – far more than any of them is able to do. You are not an overbearing boor and some of us recognise this. So love, you just GROK ON and let the trolls die off naturally.
Those of us who have stayed here on MDA are those who came, read an alternative opinion and then researched it ourselves, rather than making ridiculous, knee-jerk accusations and dismissing the whole idea out of hand simply because our favorite foods have been challenged and we are unwilling to explore further in case it makes us feel guilty about the way we want to eat.
Everyone is mortal, if you can afford (in economic and/or health terms) to eat grains and steak why not? No point saving up. Balance in everything is key though, as too much of anything is bad. Enjoy today’s sunshine, it might rain tomorrow.
Ted, my father thought as you do. He died when he was 63. If he’d followed the Primal way of living he would have lived a lot longer. Instead, he was sick for most of his life, and he died of gangrene that was inoperable due to his brittle diabetes and cancer. I don’t know about you, but that’s not something I want to have happen to me.
Why are grain lovers bothering to comment on this thread? Are they trying to recruit the convinced? All you have to do it try it your self and see for your self.
Reading it on some crazy mans blog, 3 ‘trusted’ scientific sources or a 30 person panel of nutrition experts only helps to back up your reason to trying it.
Only then will you know for yourself. Funny how NO one this thread who has actually applied Marks suggestions has said they didn’t see some positive results from just quitting the grains!
Personally I’m almost (with in 6lbs) of being as lean as I’ve been since being a cheerleader in high school and I don’t workout nearly as hard as mark suggests. Down 17 pounds since April 2010 and dripping off as I eat eggs and bacon almost daily!
Oh and same of my husband. We also have 3 primal kids that besides the primal health benefits, now aren’t subjected to the disgusting practices of BIG AGRI dairy and meat companies.
Don’t knock it ’til you try in and surely don’t try it if it doesn’t feel good in you gut… then again could be those grains giving you tummy issues.
I am new to all of this.. but after reading the blog and all the comments I am more confused than I ever was!! I don’t know if I should eat meat, not eat meat, eat grains, not eat grains..wth?? Most of my family are vegetarians and seem to be pretty healthy.. I am not and my sister tried it and it made her weak and hair started falling out, etc. so she went back to eating meat. My doctor told me to get LOTS of fiber..I thought that meant eating grains!! I AM TOTALLY CONFUSED as to what I should be doing.
Can someone please help me here!!
Wow this is a good heated debate! My opinion is that people should open up and thiink for a second…..did we evolve to eat grains? Did the Paleo human being have access to bread and pasta? NO NO and NO.
I tried to go vegan for a few months what happend? I dropped 30 pounds of muscle, I looked like I was sick and dying! IS that health? No it is not, we need ANIMAL PROTEIN, ANIMAL MEAT, FAT, BACON, LIVER, MMMMMM BLOODY GRASS_FED BRAINS!!! Wrap that aroung your vegan head
The only inaccuracy I see in this article is that bees don’t carry “seeds” from flower to flower…they carry pollen (i.e., plant sperm). Other than that, rock on, Mark! (And it’s no wonder I about killed myself being vegetarian!)
I was willing to entertain the idea that you had a basis for your argument. I have long thought wheat flour was the source of many digestive problems.
However, I could not read past the part where you interpret the study that says something about grains “rupturing their outer covering”. From which you conclude that it will “literally rupture my intestinal lining”. Clearly you have a reading comprehension issue that you need to clear up before you begin to be remotely credible. And you seem to think that “increases the level of lubricating mucus” is a bad thing? You also need a class in anatomy.
Jenny, its obviously you who has the “reading comprehension problem” if you bother to go and reread the article the “outer coverings” being ruptured are those of the cells lining the digestive tract, not the covering of the grains. Ergo, it is literally the lining of the digestive tract which is being ruptured.
Also YOU, in fact, obviously need a class in anatomy. When your body produces mucus it is very often in response to an irritant. You know, like when you get a runny nose from pollens and other allergens getting up there? They are not supposed to be there and your body produces mucus to wash them out! Same when you get an infection in your lungs – your body produces mucus to cover the invaders and then you can cough them out, removing them from your body. So yes- when your body produces excess mucus – it generally is in response to a BAD thing.
Honestly the banal stupidity of some peoples comments are amazing. Particularly those who are guilty of the mistake they insist on unfairly accusing Mark of.
Please people, just read things properly and check around this entire site (then do your own research)before making unfounded accusations and revealing your complete lack of understanding of the human body. If you honestly feel you then have a valid argument you can back up with science, well…have at it! And we will all gladly consider your opinion.
I’m on board with not eating grains, but think the tone used by Griff and others in explaining counter arguments is borderline hateful. I would bet Mark would prefer these conversations take a higher road. Just saying.
This is the second time Iv read this….first being in the The Primal Blueprint. Iv stopped all Grains for over 2 weeks now and I’ll never look back. I can already feel my body changing from the inside out! Thank you Mark for this great post!
It seems that Dr Joseph Mercola agrees with the no grains approach to diet.I have not eliminated but cut back on grains because I know I’m gluten intolerant and over time perhaps I’ll go even further. Not for any other reason than to see what it actually will make me feel like,currently at 51 78kg and 5% bodyfat I’m in good shape.Admittedly I love to read about these type of theories and trying out various things I read about(I’ve been on Barley grass for a few months,and I’m hooked for life on that product!)
I think you are seriously misguided. Did you know that glucose, the sugar compound derived from carbohydrate metabolism is the primary fuel for your brain. Without it, your brain does not function properly and is forced to convert to proteins for energy which are very harmful because of their high nitrogen content. Protein is the only substance that contains nitrogen which is toxic to the body. Also, carbs provide the body with glycogen necessary to rebuild and repair muscles after exercise, and restore energy levels. And though I may sound snobbish, this info is coming from a recovery anorexic. Believe me I have had my battles with the dreaded carbs but I have learned that your body needs them to survive!
Your body (and your brain) don’t need nearly as much glucose as you’ve been taught they do. Your body can create glucose from protein that you eat just fine on its own. It’s called gluconeogenesis. Look it up sometime. Dr. Eades has a fine article on it.
As for nitrogen, you excrete it in your sweat and in your urine. Your body can handle it just fine.
Breaking Free, you are one of many who only have one side of that particular argument. Actually our brains, whilst they do prefer glucose, are able to get by just fine without it, otherwise we would not have survived all the lean times through our evolution (or even just a winter). As Griff mentions – look up gluconeogenesis and ketosis (not ketoacidosis – which is, indeed a bad thing, but ketosis).
And frankly, (whilst it is sad that you battled such a disease and I commend you for beating it) I hardly think being an anorexic qualifies you as an expert on nutrition.
Articles like this have a good point BUT they are NOT practical by any mean. The average person that reads this will think, “okay, then I guess I’ll go on the ice cream diet” or something to that effect.
And if they do that, they’ve missed the point entirely. It’s completely practical to remove grains from the diet. I’ve done it for nearly a year and I’ve never been healthier. My arthritis is gone. My migraines are gone. My IBS is gone. My diabetes is completely under control. The cessation of grains did all that for me – and I did NOT go on the ice cream diet. (I did, however, go on the Primal Blueprint, which doesn’t include ice cream, either.)
Mark has the full Primal Blueprint 101 available right here on this site. You might want to educate yourself there.
Because a random blogger on the Internet has so much more information available to them than the people who study this stuff for a living, I think I’ll stop eating anything but lettuce and stop drinking anything but water.
Hey… food is supposed to fun! Throughout history humans have made mealtime the highlight of the day. The stress levels I see here will kill far more people than the occasional cream puff.
That said, lemme jump in and say that I like this blog, Mark – and it’s now on my reading list.
I’m a grain lover, but I know from experience they have to be cut if I want to keep my weight down. I made that decision years ago when I looked the number of calories in bread/rice compared to the actual nutritional value. Simple as that…and it worked.
Meat is another story, call it “dead animal carcass” or whatever – I don’t think it’s very nice to eat something while it’s still alive. Freshly killed is another story…
In may case (and many others) I have a gene (hla-b27)that was specifically designed for meat eaters, thanks to my ancient ancestors. It also causes a slightly overactive immune system that can trigger arthritis and other problems. Whether I eat meat or not, this gene will be working away in my body, for better or worse. I figure I may as well give it something useful to do, and so I eat meat -raw and cooked.
I see no need to invent a completely new diet that my ancestors of 1000 years ago wouldn’t recognize as food.
But that’s just me. You all can eat whatever you want:)
Just outta curiosity, how much carbohydrate would been in a grain free diet?
Im assuming that the only carb sources are potatoes, sweet potatoes and other root veggies. Or am I missing another source???
Is this diet very low in calories as well? I have a very physical job (racehorse horse rider) and Im a type one diabetic so I need lots of carb to keep my energy levels up and my blood sugars stable.
You don’t need carbohydrates. In fact, if you’re a diabetic, carbs are the worst thing you can eat. Your doctors and the ADA are flying in the face of real science every time they tell you that you should eat carbs.
There are a number of Type 1s on the forums here. Every one of them has reduced their insulin use (in some cases dramatically) and improved their blood sugars by eliminating starchy/sugary carbs and minimizing other carbs. Potatoes, grains, and fruit are all starchy/sugary carbs; leafy greens and other veggies tend not to have that problem.
Mark’s carbohydrate curve recommends no more than about 150 grams of (mostly non-starchy/sugary) carbs per day for an active, healthy individual – and less than that for a non-active, unhealthy individual.
I’m a type 2 diabetic and I’ve been controlling my diabetes with this diet for three days short of a year (8/13 is my first anniversary of starting PB). I rarely go over 50g of carbs in a day. In that time I’ve lost 98 pounds, normalized my blood sugars, and I feel great. You can do it to. Get Mark’s book, and read his blogs and the forums.
Do you ever go hypoglycaemic Griff?
If i dont eat enough carb to fuel my muscles while working I have hypoglycaemia which is very very unpleasant and dangerous especially when you are on the back of a horse.
My insulin requirements are very low because of the exercise i do.
I really dont think I could do a days work with out at least 200g of carb. Im 5’8 and weight 60kg.
Are type 2’s affected by hypoglyceamia Griff? If so how do you control your sugars with exercise???
No, I never go hypo, and if you do this, you won’t either. Once your body converts to burning fat for fuel, hypos should be a thing of the past.
I don’t exercise much. I don’t feel the need to. My average sugars are around 95 or so most days.
Type 2s are not usually affected by hypoglycemia unless they’re on insulin.
Read Mark’s book, and the one that was recommended to you by Dr. Bernstein, too. Bernstein is a Type I and he’s got his diabetes completely under control by not eating carbs. And he’s in his 70s last I heard.
Please read Dr. Richard K Bernstein’s book “Diabetes Solution”. It may save your life. He recommends a very low carb diet for all diabetics so they can maintain truly normal blood sugar levels. Dr. Bernstein is a type 1 who turned his health around by limiting carbs.
Thanks for the sentiments Anne, but to be honest my life is not in danger, I have very good blood sugar control and no weight problems.
Griff thank you for trying to help, but I dont think you understand hypoglycemia, I will end up with low blood sugar levels due to the exercise I am doing as part of my job. My body will use fat as an energy source when there is a lack of insulin but for a type one this is very very very dangerous and life threatening, As a by product of metabolising fat is ketosis which will lead to ketoacidosis.(in type ones)
Thank you for trying to help but starting to see the dangers of asking for advice on the internet! lol
eilis, that’s what I’m trying to tell you. You won’t have hypos. There are many type 1s following this diet and they don’t have hypos. Eating carbs is what gives you hypos!
Look, read Dr. Bernstein’s book. Ketosis will not make you sick – ketoacidocis will, but that only happens when your blood sugar is out of control. They are not the same thing! Fat metabolism is what will give you the fuel your body needs in order to function, dramatically reduce your need for insulin, and eliminate your need for carb intake.
You have been fed a line of nonsense by doctors who aren’t up on the science. Please read the resources you’ve been pointed at. Go read the research.
I think based off of what Ive read I would like to try a grain free diet, But my only question would be, Is it safe and healthy to eat or drink cereal grasses? like wheat grass or barley grass since they come from grains?????
Is it safe and healthy to eat or drink wheat grass and other ceral grasses like barley??? as they do come from grain I believe……. does anyone know anything regarding this?
the only thing Im still not clear of Is consuming seeds???? would falxseeds and other seeds be part of the NO NO list of things not to eat? are seeds the same as grain in a way???
I love revisiting this topic from time to time, especially since I’m constantly getting emails for “advice” on nutrition/diet plans from people in work, and when the advice is given, an argument ensues.
I work for a major food manufacturer, which is kind of ironic, considering I will never eat any of the food from the brands we sell, and consistently tell people outside of work to avoid them.
I’ve argued with “Karen” about 100 times, and it’s not fun anymore. I used to love luring them into a debate and then crushing them with recent science proving the point.
The way I look at it now is that, it takes a certain breed of people to walk against the grain (no pun intended). There are those that will always fall back onto what the “government” tells them. (The word government is used very liberally here and is not intended to specifically name them as the source of misinformation. It’s a broad generalization of corporate controlled information.)
There are just as many people who believe Mark is a quack as there are people who believe in him.
For one, I believe in him based off of application, not just because his words are intelligent and back by scientific studies.
Guys like Sission, Cordain, Wolf, Taubes, etc do us a great service by exposing these nutritional myths. They aren’t in it to become millionaires. They want to see people healthy, stronger, and living longer.
I read through most of the comments here, and I know it is pretty much dead at this point but I just found this website and want to say something: if grains are so bad then why have some traditional cultures used them successful and were free of disease and tooth decay? I am thinking specifically of a swedish people group isolated from the cities that ate mostly raw dairy products and rye bread and were extremely healthy people.
It is in the PREPARATION of them that is key, you have to let yeast and bacteria do the breaking down of the toxins and gluten and whatever else you are referring to that is so bad for our body. When I eat fermented grains I do not get the bloating and blood sugar spike that I get from unsoaked/fermented grains. I wonder why people have not addressed this.
Boy this thread is really hopping. Much like Griff, I had incredible weight loss results going very low carb. I was 46 when I started it, going on 48 now. I have not eaten wheat, corn, or any product that contains wheat or corn for two years. This eliminates virtually all processed foods, so I have to make my own meals.
You can definitely thrive without wheat and corn, I have never been healthier. I went from being unable to walk a mile to exercising 12-15 hours a week (I love lifting weights but was unable to do so for many years do to poor health attributable to my diet).
I think pretty much everyone including Dr. Atkins agrees that if you are going to be very physically active you do need to eat some carbs … once you are past the “weight loss” phase into the “let’s see how far I can take my new-found youth” phase, you are going to want some carbs to maximize your athletic potential.
If on the other hand you are not interested in athletics, then there is no reason to eat carbs at all, and definitely not grains. It takes some getting used to, but you can thrive without them.
Hey i’ve been in a mixed martial arts class and i’m told i need a lot of complex carbs in my diet to keep my energy up and i was wondering if anyone knows what i should substitute for grains to get them.
Well, I knew this already, but I think that is because I am from SoCal. I moved to Connecticut and people seem to know little about nutrition. I actually met someone who thought iceberg lettuce was the only variety of lettuce. I think in most parts of the country people have this 50’s knowledge of nutrition. Also we are not meant to eat near as much meat as we do. (especially red meat)
I recently was told that (pending a colonoscopy to confirm it categorically) that I have Celiac Disease – which I have had symptoms from since I was 9yrs old and it has only just been picked up at 29yrs old officially.
Is a primal diet, good for people that have celiac? i.e. is anything you promote packed with Gluten?
An upper endoscopy with biopsies of the small intestine is used to confirm a diagnosis of celiac disease. The celiac experts are now saying that 1% of the population has celiac disease but 10-30% has non-celiac gluten sensitivity. So you don’t have to have celiac disease to be hurt by gluten.
Yes, since a primal diet removes all grains, it would be gluten free. I have stopped eating all the processed gluten free foods and my health improved. You do have to watch out for cross contamination with gluten. Trace amounts of gluten can cause problems.
Well after coming across this site last night and reading all the comments I decided to try eradicating grain, potato and bean products from my diet TODAY for one month(with the blueprint book on order).
First impressions: really hard. Even with still eating organic oats in the morning getting through the day for someone who only eats fish it’s hard. Especially when needing a quick snack. But bought some buckwheat flour to make bread and avoided all the inner isles at the supermarket.
Couple of questions arose:
A far as beans go, are broad beans & garden beans out? These things I would eat raw before…
Is it advised to avoid dairy products too for a healthy individual?
After reading all the positive comments I decided to give it a try myself, immediately. Three full days down the line and im struggling, even when cheatin in the mornings with my organic muesli. Im very sluggish, get stomach pains, and odd pains flare up instead of settling. Nor do I filled after a big ass fish salad with extra cheese. Hungry throughout the day. Anyway couple of questions rose from these experiences:
Can I eat garden beans, like broad beans?
what about olives?
are dairy products to abstained from as well?
I want to read the site to gain a bit more knowledge but I wont be able to until next week.
With all due respect, I think the reason you’re struggling so much is that you’re not actually following the Blueprint in any way at all. A big bowl of oats in the morning, buckwheat flower, museli, pasta, blah blah blah–all those things will make you hungry and sluggish, inflamed and acidic.
My suggestion is that you cut out the cheats and give it an honest go. Have some eggs in the morning. Eat your big ass salad with the meat and fat that will actually satiate you (not the veggies that won’t satisfy in and of themselves or grains that make you sicker and hungrier).
it’s obvious to me as a “newbe” that someone has invested alot of time and research into Primal Diet and has taken the time and effort to detail their findings and the benefits of changing their eating habits in an attempt to accomplish better health.
To be totally honest, this is by no means the only web site or article which promtes this type of eating. Granted there are other ideas and methods. NONETHELESS, people are following this website because they want to try something different because other methods haven’t worked r they just need to feel part of a community to help them make changes. This is a great way to encourage people to think about their health which in turn filters through to their freinds and familes. Anyone posting negative comments, doctor or scientist or non believer, really need to stop and create their own blogs or websites to encourage people to try other ways if thet are passionate about it and not scare people away or confuse people into not bothering. After all, what can be so wring with this diet ?? At worse, It way better than most people are eating anyway and any improvement is a start. I myself am planning to take much of this method into my eating plan and massively reduce things like Grains and sugars and processed foods and even cut out what has com to be known as social skoking,, ( for me, 5 ciggs a month ) which i need about as much as I need grain..
So, thank you for all who have made efforts to post positive comments and I look forward to the challenegs and if it clearly doesn’t work for me i will try something although i actually believe in it 🙂
This entire discourse is making me sad. We can all make the best decisions we know how to for our bodies and learn as much as we can to HELP each other but I see absolutely no need for such arrogance on every side, it’s not helping anyone.
Excellent article! I recently started the paleo diet and my dentist was astounded my periodontal disease virtually disappeared. Pocket depths reduced 50% and only a couple teeth are left problematic!
I’m curious what are the effects if you do stumble back across gains again after a long stint off them? Also what about cooking techniques? I keep hearing of cooking techniques that naturalize Lectins. Such as fermentation in sour dough bread and soaking beans in acidic solution.
I don’t have any plans to return to the grains in the near future. Just interested by the idea that they could be mitigated through some cooking techniques?
Hi – I’ve heard of this concept before, but never experimented myself with the diet. Some brief research does bring up some scientific evidence in its favor, but while this does seem to indicate PB is a viable diet choice, more than one review questions how it meets vitamin D and calcium requirements. I wondered if anyone knew about research that addresses this (and I do realize that people should be able to get enough vitamin D from sun exposure, which is a fine argument, except if you’re living in an area that is too cold to expose enough skin for the requisite amount of time without freezing). Thanks!
My stomach aches started when I was a little kid…within 30 min to an hour after eating. Lots of cream of wheat (especially agonizing), oatmeal (should be sold as a sleep supplement), and various whole grain breads and pastas, tortillas and beans were our staples. It escalated to excruciating pain episodes by the time I was a teenager. Laying down and not moving while distracting myself with a novel was my favorite hobby starting early.
Grains peddled as a health food…what a horrible joke.
This Mark Sisson guy sounds like a total dick. Maybe he could benefit from not being such a salad-eating wanker and live a little. There’s too many mixed messages about dieting these days. I say eat what you want and stay active. Assuming it’s not Burger King every day.
Hell, I bet I’m more healthy than this stuck up sissy anyways.
Hey Mark. I just finished reading your article and attempted to read all the comments, for an answer I was looking for. I gave up 100+ comments later.
So here it goes..
I was just talking about this with my girl friend a few days ago whom has over the past couple of months gone gluten-free. She’s lost all her baby weight by doing so (and exercise of course) and it has inspired me to get back on track with my health.
My problem however is meat. I’m a vegetarian. (Please do not try to convince me that meat is good for me. I’d rather happy living animals than a dead one on my plate.) I’m not that savvy in the kitchen so my go-to has been cereal. I’m also a starving student with limited income. So basically my question would be, what the heck am I supposed to eat that would be easy to make, easy on the wallet, contains no-gluten(baby-steps here), no meat, and TASTES GOOD?
Hey Mark. I just finished reading your article and attempted to read all the comments, for an answer I was looking for. I gave up 100+ comments later.
So here it goes..
I was just talking about this with my girl friend a few days ago whom has over the past couple of months gone gluten-free. She’s lost all her baby weight by doing so (and exercise of course) and it has inspired me to get back on track with my health.
My problem however is meat. I’m a vegetarian. (Please do not try to convince me that meat is good for me. I’d rather happy living animals than a dead one on my plate.) I’m not that savvy in the kitchen so my go-to has been cereal. I’m also a starving student with limited income. So basically my question would be, what the heck am I supposed to eat that would be easy to make, easy on the wallet, contains no-gluten(baby-steps here), no meat, and TASTES GOOD?
I’m probably asking for a bit too much here aren’t I? Haha!
Yes, you are. Frankly, you need to get away from vegetarianism as quickly as you can if you want to be healthy. Go read Lierre Keith’s book “The Vegetarian Myth.” Humans evolved eating animals – you cannot get away from this fundamental fact.
Thanks so much for all the great information Mark.
I know this might sound like a dumb question, but is white rice (arborio, long grain, basmati etc) ok to eat seeing that they are gluten free? Or does white rice also contain the other anti-nutrients?
I only have a few questions…
what about the issue of sustainability?
if everyone ate a paleo diet, there would not be enough meat to feed everyone, since it takes more land and water to result in a pound of meat than a pound of grain.
also, what about acidity of the stomach?
most (if not all) meats are very acidic in the stomach, which can actually decrease muscle mass.
raw fruits, veggies and nuts can alkalyze the stomach
all of this info is from the thrive diet, a vegan athlete diet. however, the thrive diet also calls for the elimination of wheat and processed carbs. brendan brazier (the author) calls for the consumption of pseudograins (such as wild rice and quinoa) which are not necesasrily grains.
Grains, breads, flour products and pasta can actually damage your digestive system and feed pathogenic bacteria and yeast. These foods are also very dehydrating. Besides causing constipation, they help you create a toxic environment that is attractive to pathogenic microorganisms like yeast.
My mum had gone primal about a year or so ago but I never really paid much attention as previously she’d been on about 7 different diet fads (Atkins included) But a few months ago I started getting terrible stomach aches after my grain rich chip filled dinners, after about 2 weeks of having them every night I figured I should tell someone soon. Then one night I was heading home on the bus from my boyfriend’s house with the then familiar after dinner ache… I found out the motions of an hour-long bus ride makes it SO MUCH WORSE. I managed to throw up twice(and swallow it back down because who wants to throw up all over a bus?!) and once at my stop I realised there was no way I could walk the rest of the way back (another mile as the bus from town to my house stops at 7) I ended up collapsed on the pavement crying from the pain and eventually got a lift home from my grandad.. then we went to the hospital and I had to wait for 2 hours… Of course by the time the doctor saw me it was gone, and she said it was probably nothing serious. Nothing serious?!
I figured it had to be something I was eating and I remembered mum suffering from gas before, and that it hadn’t happened since she went on this primal diet, so I looked into it, borrowed the book, and after reading it, kicked the grains. I’d say I’ve never had a problem with it since, but… guess who had pasta tonight? >.< Being a very fussy eater AND vegetarian (never let an animal lover watch a video on how they slaughter the animals O_O) I find it hard to completely rid my diet of grains, but I don't have it often anymore at all.
Although saying that, over the last week or so I've been catching myself thinking 'maybe it would be better if I DID eat meat' I'm usually one to stick to my guns on subjects like this so this site must be doing something to my vegetarian mind o_o
I'd like to say a GIGANTIC thank you to you Mark, for saving me from repeating that terrifying night that I thought I was dying in the middle of the street x] The Primal Blueprint has helped me in so many other ways, and while I've never been fat(my ribs have always shown and I've always been asked if I'm anorexic -_-;), I may actually have a flat stomach this summer!
Wonderful website you have here but I was wanting to know if you knew of any forums that cover the same topics discussed here? I’d really love to be a part of online community where I can get responses from other knowledgeable people that share the same interest. If you have any suggestions, please let me know. Kudos!
Chia – sure, it’s right here on MDA! Look in the navigation bar across the top of the page, and you’ll see “Forum” over on the right. Click there, and a whole world of Primal goodness will open up to you. Looking forward to seeing you there!
What about sprouted grains? I read somewhere that they very nutritious and don’t have all those phytates.
Also, what about legumes? (Beans, lentils, peas, etc.) Soaked overnight of course, or sprouted before cooking.
I agree that in general grains are not very good. But not all carbs are created equal. For example, eating a big piece of cake will give me a bad sugar rush and zits the next day. Same goes for white bread or pasta.
Gorging on tangerines the other day (they are in season) didn’t leave me feeling anything except happy and full. Nor has eating an occasional slice of whole wheat sourdough bread with plenty of butter with breakfast left me with negative effects. No bowel or skin issues. The opposite actually.
Just saying.
Reading this website and the comments for the last few weeks has caused me to lose all faith I had in America. I have never seen/ read about so many uninformed, stupidly self assured people in my entire life.
The number of times rational people have been struct down in the above comments by people claiming to know what they’re talking based on a small, incomplete, indoctorinated set of tenuous facts is truly distressing. Pray to our Lord that people do not believe this toxic drivel.
(P.S.: Cavemen who supposedly ate like that would have been ACTIVE individuals, and would not have wanted to be losing weight. Oh, and they would RARELY live to the ripe old age of 25. Think before you try to emulate someone.)
Umm you were saying something about “uninformed, stupidly self assured people”?
Cavemen lived well beyond 25 and although he general life expectancy was lower than today, it was because of the high infant mortality, and dying from diseases like tuberculosis and others, for which people are now vaccinated against, or injuries. Not to mention that the paleo diet advocates activity similar to what a cave would’ve done.
If you’ve facts to share, please do. But please don’t insult people’s intelligence and read a few medical studies and books before claiming that all of these people are talking based on “small, incomplete, indoctorinated set of tenuous facts”.
Besides, people who support this diet have tried it and seen the health benefits and lost the weight. Those who discouraged it, have not. That says a lot.
Wow great article, great conversations and debating. I would like to add if somebody hasn’t already to keep on mind metabolic type when trying out the PB lifestyle and/or what ratio of protein, fats and carbs works best for you. I haven’t purchased the PB book YET, but I will, and I’ve read many of Mark’s wonderful blogs. Anyway I think that PB definitely is the way to go. I don’t know too much about metabolic typing but each individual person has certain specific foods that work better ethic them than others ie blueberries work well with them but blackberries not so much. I also read that people with type O blood generally should eat more fats and proteins and people with type A or B should eat more carbs. Obviously in context to PB the source of carbs would be vegetables and some fruit. I don’t know the science of metabolic typing, but perhaps our particular met. types is related to the fact that some of our ancestors were able to hunt and eat more meat and less plants and visa-versa depending on their geographic locations etc? Just a hunch :). Basically my point is that I believe that PB will work for anybody, just that you may have to adjust your portion of meats fats and greens depending PB your individual body chemistry :-). Mark I cannot wait to read your book, and adjust my lidestyle! Guys sorry for the huge paragraph with no breaks and the run-on sentences! I’m typing from my phone and didn’t feel like spacing blah blah. Typing in a hurry.
Wow, I am a raw vegan and I agree that grains are not good for us. I am a little surprised by the hate that is being spewed in the comments and to be honest I am a little taken aback. I probably will never visit this site again. How is attacking people going to educate anyone? Many of the things you are teaching here are great but I doubt I would feel welcomed because I am vegan (a healthy one too btw) and will never change that.
im open for suggestions, but please everybody, CITE YOUR SOURCES. most of the stuff in the article and all the stuff in the comments does not have a source. do you all really expect me to believe that everybody here has a PHD in some kind of health/nutrition/medical subject??? give me a break and just get me some peer reviewed facts.
the body produces glucose through the process of gluconeogenesis when you don’t eat glucose. If you want to ingest glucose, you can get ample amounts from certain fruits and vegetables.
Like much of anything else, the Primal Blueprint’s anti-carb info doesn’t go quite far enough. If eaten inappropriately, in excess and by those sensitive they can do harm. But, there are conditions and situation where eating them may be required, for example to bind minerals which a body produces in excess or which someone has consumed in error. It may interest you to know that the first use for grain was making beer. Pelease note however that brewing decreases these “anti-nutrients” as do most preparation methods. So you not only have to conssider what you eat but how what you’re eating was prepared. For those who think meat is unhealthy, I remind you that the strictly vegan human species died out many millions of years ago. The Neandthals ate almost only meat and were far more successful until a failure to adapt erased them. Omnivorousness remains the best path to success so eat the steak and enjoy it.
I hate that I was born italian and getting rid of grains will be the hardest thing Ive ever done in my entire life….heres from suffering from carb difficiencies til my body adjust ha
A couple of years ago after a bout with severe stomach/digestive problems seemingly out of nowhere, I through trial and error came to the conclusion grains were the problem. I almost completely eliminated corn, pasta, whole wheat, oats and anything with corn starch or high fructose corn syrup. In about two weeks I lost 8 lbs., had no more stomach issues, headaches went away and bloating and discomfort disappeared. Prior to this I had been exercising and eating healthy by most standards but too many grains…and I always felt like crap and couldn’t lose one pound. I’d like to point out that I still use regular sugar and eat potatoes. Just no corn syrup or grain-based foods. And I feel great.
I need an explanation on how all this meat is suppose to be healthy for you? How long was the lifespan of those that lived in the paleolithic era?
I am new to this, haven’t started yet actually, trying to weight all the pros and cons. I get the processed food and the pasteurized dairy and commercial fruits veggies and meat products, but if you buy good grains or grow your own and grind yourself or make your own pasta, how can this be bad for you?
Isn’t “healthy” food in moderation the total key here?
Just seeking advice, not attacking at all.
The lifespan of paleolithic humans is not a clear topic as far as diets go. It’s a number that is affected by many variables: frequent deaths due to injuries (such as during a hunt), infections from injuries, high infant mortality rates, etc.
Personally, I don’t believe grains and legumes are all that evil if well prepared, i.e. soaked, fermented, and so on, to remove their anti nutrients. However people do have a tendency to rely on them as their stable instead of simply a participant in the diet. (Just think of how much of your traditional “balanced diet” is actually grain, and how much is everything else). So often it’s better to cut them out totally at first to break the dependency.
I follow a more general low carb, high fat approach. Meat will not harm you.. we evolved eating it. Ever see a lion or, to take an omnivorous example, a fox get sick from eating meat? If you want a really good and thorough scientific answer to put your doubts at ease, I highly highly recommend reading “Good Calories, Bad Calories” by Gary Taubes.
It sounds like you have not read the book. Please do so, or read the entire blogroll and you will see that grains in any form, soaked or not, are not primal and are bad or you.
But I did, and from doing my own extensive research and reading, and from personal experience, I still respectfully disagree with you.
I tried both the perfect strict primal (with no grains, legumes, or dairy) and tried a more general approach that included a good amount of well prepared legumes and dairy, and the very occasional portions of grains. I honestly found no added benefit from following a strict primal diet over the latter one. But as I said in my previous comment, that’s my personal experience.
Wow, this blog is ridiculously long and only touches on some of the reasons why grain is and should be a staple food. Doesn’t anyobody realize that this website is about making money and selling a book? A few things that should seriously be considered:
– The food crisis of 2007-08 caused prices to soar and although prices went down after 2008, we are now in another food crisis, which could push another 100 million people into poverty (FAO).
– Grains account for a huge portion of cheap and affordable food for the majority of the world’s people, particularly the world’s poor. To argue for abolishing grains is elitist and condemn the majority of human beings to abject hunger and starvation.
– Meat consumption pushes food prices up due to the input costs, and uses exorbitant amounts of fresh water, which is also a finite resource.
– Food is very much culturally appropriate and just because a middle aged white male from the West (who is trying to sell a book) tells you a diet should be one way, we cannot exclude other more (subjectively) culturally appropriate diets.
– Both the USDA and the Canadian Food Guide suggest that grains should be part of our daily intake. As to the ridiculous suggestion that governments do not know anything about science or that we should not listen to “people in authority”, your irresponsible libertarian fantasies do not take into account that (a) these organizations are largely run by scientists and (b) both have vested interests in maintaining a healthy population (particularly Canada with universal health care).
– Somebody made the whimsical comment that “this is nutrition not social science”! Well, here’s news jack ass, food is not apolitical or devoid of political and social context. Of course the nutrition benefits are important, but so is a cost-benefit analysis that takes into account all of human society and how this impacts every one of our daily lives, particularly developing countries.
I can’t wait to hear what the facetious asshole Griff is going to comment (who I suspect is either making money off of the book/website and or is the author himself).
*laugh* Paranoid much, “Money”? As a matter of fact, I am not the author of the book or the website, and I don’t make a penny off of any of it. I’m just someone who freed himself of diabetes, arthritis, migraine and IBS – incidentally losing about 100 pounds along the way – by following the principles Mark sets down in his book and backs up with science. Reading your post with its nonscientific, political assertions, I smell a vegan troll.
While I know you’d like to believe that the whole world can live on grains, the fact of the matter is that human beings did not evolve to eat them, they are not food, and sure, we can survive on them – but they make us sick and they kill us off early. Not optimal.
No, food is not apolitical, but we would also not be in the overpopulated mess we are if we hadn’t started eating and cultivating things that are not food, like grains. Your other claims are likewise both unscientific and incorrect, but if you’re like most vegan trolls, I doubt you’ll be willing to look at the evidence.
My cost-benefit analysis is selfish, but I’ll live longer and I won’t be sick while I’m living longer. I cannot be responsible for the other six and a half to seven billion people on this planet. I have enough to worry about with my own life and family and friends.
Having unrealistic expectations like yours is just as bad as having no principles at all. And in fact, I have principles. They include making sure that I’m healthy so that I can do what is actually possible to help others – like convincing people not to have children and reducing this unsustainable population down to something where we have the ability to all eat this way and live long lives without the diseases of civilization shortening them.
Yes, I am fully aware that I am making the choice for my health over the whole world’s destiny. If that makes me a facetious asshole, so be it. I’ll live longer and be healthier, and frankly that’s my first priority. You can’t help anyone else if you don’t make sure you’ve taken care of yourself first, and after watching my father die of diabetes, gangrene and cancer because he followed the diet you propose, I have no interest in speaking to you further. Kiss off, “Money” (whom I suspect is just Ray in disguise) – your unscientific message isn’t wanted here.
I find it amusing that you think i am both paranoid and a vegan, which I am neither. I actually eat meat, and grains, and believe it or not I am healthy and feel great.
I based my reasoning on facts, which you tend to glance over in your short-sighted myopic one-track mission. Perhaps you should read What We Eat and Why Our Food Choices Matter by Peter Singer. Oh wait, I forgot, you are obsessed with claiming everything has to do with “science”. You can say the word all you want, get a phd and then I’ll listen.
Are you really that ignorant to think that you would even be here, or that the internet would exist without grains, which have led to a little thing called population growth. Yeah, your boy Gock surely lived the high life in his shitty cave with a selection of 4 women to choose from for wives and not the slightest clue what mass communication is.
I find it comical that you think you can help others, YOU! Is the white man going to come and save us with his science and logic and tell all of the backwards grain-eating savages not to have babies? They have babies for a reason dumb-ass. It has more to do with economic reasons of self-sufficiency and building a safety net than a lack of some dimwit sarcastic blogger who thinks he can actually make a positive difference by showing them the guiding light of righteous non-grain miracles.
Your self-admitted selfishness is no surprise though. Neither is your lack of knowledge of world issues. I did not expect more form someone who is either making money off of this misinformation or is so caught up in his own fantasy that he seriously believes the dog shit that comes out of his keyboard.
After reading your comment below claiming long life expectancy, how do you explain the Japanese? They have the longest life expectancy in the world and live their whole lives eating a diet that consists largely of rice and noodles. Empirical evidence you ask for. Well I believe there’s one hell of a large sample of people who completely disprove your “sound science”.
I won’t argue myself, since I’m not a Doctor or a nutritional scientist. To answer your question about the Japanese, and also about supposed “Good Conscience” of the USDA and the FDA, I will however point you to this fascinating lecture by Robert H. Lustig, MD, UCSF Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology. http://www.uctv.tv/search-details.aspx?showID=16717
And if you would like a more elaborate and scientific explanation on why fats aren’t bad for you, and why excessive carbs are, and also understand the history behind the push for grains, I highly recommend “Good Calories, Bad Calories” by Gary Taubes.
The rest is up to you. Mark didn’t invent low carb or paleo. He’s just sharing something good. Most people here are following this diet because they’ve seen what the conventional diet has done to them. My mother strictly followed a perfectly very low fat, high fiber, high whole grain diet all her life, and she was the very picture of slim health… until she got colon cancer at 48 and died 2 years later at the age of 50. So I’ll stick to my high fat, low carb, paleo-ish diet, thank you very much, and you can keep enjoying your grains.
Soak your grains for 8-24 hours to take care of the phytates, the anti-nutrients. Especially in an acid medium, such as with vinegar added.
Pasta and processed grains are doubtful in their nutritional value, but whole grains properly prepared are different.
And another most important thing is to cook the grains with lots of natural salt. Salt helps make hydrochloric acid in the body.
When you all have been on salads and meet and such for a while and gotten over the honeymoon, check out Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon which has a pretty balanced view.
The extreme systems such as veganism, vegetarianism, no-carbs, high carbs, Raw Paleo, Warrior Diet, etc. – they all get old after a while. They are not a lifetime diet. I have tried most of these.
Remember- high salt and grains.
Soak the grains.
Ezekiel brand bread is made of soaked grains.
And Sourdough.
And take kelp, seaweed or mineral supplements, because our souls simply don’t have the minerals in them that we need.
I would love to read the entire comments on here, but there is so much bashing. Cannot we not disagree without implying negativity about someone. Ridiculous.
I won’t be following anymore or making anymore comments because of this. I will do my own research anywhere but here. No, I have yet to purchase the book, I heard about this lifestyle just last week and wished to look into it before spending money.
I will now however see about borrowing the book to see if I still wish to make the purchase.
Let’s act like civilized human beings here and disagree tactfully and maturely.
Robert Atkins had VIRAL cardiomyopathy. He did NOT have ischemic heart disease, aka IHD, which is the disease that has been “linked” to high-fat diets. His diagnosis was confirmed by a member of the AHA, who commented that he did NOT believe that Atkins’ diet was related to his VIRAL cardiomyopathy. The doctor who treated his injury also mentioned that for a 71-year-old man, he had arteries and a heart that were in excellent shape.
When admitted to the hospital after his fall, he weighed 175 pounds, which is about average for a man of his height. He gained 60 pounds of fluids in nine days because of the medication he was placed on.
So, in sum, Atkins did NOT “die from his diet”–he died from brain injury and his weight gain was completely due to the medical treatment he was given.
This really riles me and I deleted comments about the stupidity of some people.
I came to this post hoping to find some actual scientific evidence as to why grains might be unhealthy. Instead, I am finding a lot of irresponsible alarmism and fanaticism. This man is not engaged in science, do not be fooled. He is taking the thinnest shreds of suggestive facts and running with them, in a highly rhetorical exercise in manipulation. Do not mistake plausible THEORY for experimentally-derived evidence; the two are worlds apart.
Where are the studies showing that whole grains (not refined sugars) are unhealthy? Answer: they are nowhere because they do not exist.
Ooooooooooooohhhh, anti-nutrients!!!! Fall down and pee in your pants and be afraid! It’s like you’re swallowing a black hole of nutrition when you eat that slice of whole grain bread! You’ll probably have type II diabetes by next week!!
Oh, wait, what’s that? Mark Sisson has no idea what the MAGNITUDE of the effect of those “anti-nutrients” is? It reminds me of people who freak out about aspartame being converted to formaldehyde (scary!). Except that humans have been putting formaldehyde into their bodies since the Garden of Eden (I can hear the wannabe Daniel Dennetts’ fingers furiously typing away in all earnestness and zeal) and the apple. Oh, and all that poison fructose!
Someone mentioned this above, but how is this as food for thought: think of the countries that have the longest life expectancy today (Japan, Hong Kong, Iceland, Switzerland, etc.). Now do you think that the people of those countries eat ANYTHING AT ALL like this so-called “primal” stuff? Oh, but the Asians have evolved to process those grains—well, ok, but you just contradicted your whole Grand Unified Primal Theory in saying that. How about Switzerland? They probably share a similar evolutionary past to many of the affluent, well-educated white people that waste their time with this stuff, right? Do you think they eat “primally” there? Hmmm… I guess if the facts don’t fit the theory, then to hell with the facts!
Speaking of facts, here is one: Mark Sisson is a former athlete who is making a decent income by styling himself as some kind of caveman-guru. He is not a scientist, and he does not act like one. A large part of the credibility of his system comes from the pretty-boy pictures splashed across the top of the site—and his body is pleasing to the eyes, I will give him that. But, guess what? Go look at the contest winners for Bill Phillips’ Body for Life and you will also see some kickin’ bods, some probably even nicer than Caveman Mark’s! But how could they possibly get that way eating 5 or 6 small meals a day and lots of whole grains and legumes? I guess all those contest winners prolly had IBD or Crohn’s. Or it was just their genetics. Or ephedra. Or roids.
Here’s some dietary (and overall life) advice: In medio stat virtus. Sorry, Grokkers, cavemen didn’t come up with that one.
“I came to this post hoping to find some actual scientific evidence as to why grains might be unhealthy. Instead, I am finding a lot of irresponsible alarmism and fanaticism. ”
CaptainEight I presume? Have you done your reading homework yet? If not GO AWAY!
read the comments and you’ll see posts from people who said they cut out processed carbs, HFCS, pop, sweets. people who were over-consuming everything, not just carbs. basically people who banged up their own metabolism by eating the SAD.
but nope, it’s the grains and fruit that made them fat. LOL. of course your levels are going to fall when you stop drinking pop and eating takeout pizza. the trick is to not let your health get in that state to begin with.
i’m definitely not anti-fat, but there are a lot of things i still disagree with on this blog. i’ve eaten beans and legumes as well as small amounts of pasta my entire life. i didn’t die and i don’t have heart disease or digestive problems. i’m a slim but muscular fitness instructor. never had a problem with my weight and i don’t do excessive cardio or weight train for a thousand hours. amazing.
MDA is a good resource for some things, but they fail to make the distinction that gary taubes does: if you’re lean to begin with and don’t have insulin resistance, don’t go OVERBOARD with the carbs. sensible advice for anyone.
if you have diabetes, well, yeah, you’re gong to have to restrict. maybe those extra 5g will bloat you, shoot your blood sugar up and make you put on weight in 5 seconds. but the danger with MDA is that there’s no caveat. they just assume everyone reading is either already primal or fat and eats crap (and american. lol. which i am not). there is a good middle ground for some people that they can stick with throughout their lives. MDA posters sometimes can’t accept that and i’m not sure if it’s out of bitterness or what.
I truely have a little chuckle every time I read a post saying “I came here to find SCIENTIFIC” evidence/proof/scans of molecular imaging proving grains are bead…ad nauseam.
Would that be the same “science” that proclaimed that the earth was flat? or perhaps the same “science” that not so long ago would have had you burnt at the stake if you had said that man would one day reach the moon(sorry I forgot that did’nt really happen did it?)
I will applaud the earnestness of these folks who come here as if looking for the holy grail of health with the same zealousness of a 911 conspiracy theroist combing through the rubble hoping to chance on the remants of some exotic new explosive.
As a 52 year male at 5’9′ 74 kilos who maintains 5% BF year round I have found cutting back on my breads,cereals etc to have benefits in the way I look feel and think.
Meaning I am gluten intolerant and while I know you can get get gluten free breads etc I have chosen to forgo this and eat more veggies(never a bad thing)lots of fish irrespective of grains being bad for you I rather have a plate of fish and veggies than a bowel of pasta.
I look considerably younger than I am and feel aw3esome,and yes I exercise 6 -7 days a week following something very similar to Primal fitness.
Now will I ever completely give up breads,rice(which I like with tuna) probably not but again thats my choice.
And on the “science” that people like to rabbit on about legal drugs kill tens of thousands of people every year funny we don’t hear to much about that.
And while we’re on the topic western “science” is STILL coming round to fact that there is a HUGE connection between our emotions and our health only something that the Chinese have known for decades!
And finally dear people your science that you search so feverishly for is constantly evolving-it is not static,so perhaps just perhaps Mark has a point in what he says and again perhaps he’s ahead of his time.
Warmly
Kim
I’m in agreement with anyone on the anti white carbs bandwagon. However, for anyone who is against whole grains I’d really like you to explain the okinawans. A group that has the highest numbers of centenarians and the lowest rates of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer’s, than any people in the world. They eat grains.
The theory that grains and dairy are the cause for all the world’s ills according to the paleo movement is just that, a theory. There’s no proof.
Also my big issue is that 99% or better of people can’t live like this the rest of their lives. You telling me you can avoid that piece of cake on your birthday and that beer and dog at the game?
Do I think you have to eat grains and dairy? 100% no. You can easily get the same stuff in fruits and vegetables and if you are lactose intolerant and have celiac disease I can understand as well.
I don’t consider them must have food like fruits and vegetables, but I certainly don’t consider them must avoid foods either if you don’t have an allergy to them.
Great article, and I am doing the “eat right for your blood type” And I’d be curious to know your thoughts on that, but one of the things it suggested I avoid was Gluten, and most grains including wheat, which I had always thought was healthier.
Not eating any grains puts you in a state of ketosis (when you’re body burns muscle and fat instead of sugars for energy). How can that be healthy? I’m currently on a no-grain diet, because of this skin issue I have its gonna clear up this way (it’s got to do with the insulin levels). My cheeks are already much less inflamed after two days of not eating grains/potatoes. I’ve noticed I used to eat so many grains! I still miss them 🙁 I’m worried about the ketosis and losing too much weight. If I lose more than eight pounds because of this diet I’ll be underweight.
Ketosis does not burn muscle (whoever told you that did not know what they were talking about). It burns fat. Ketone bodies are what are burned, and they are produced from stored body fat. Ketosis is a perfectly healthy and natural state for the human body – and in fact it’s how we evolved. Sugars are an emergency fuel source, and nothing more.
grains are bad…?!!
ok, then how can we explain the fact the ancient cultures like Chinese, Hindus and most asian cultures existed and survived primarily based on rice as the main food ?
or Aztecs in Peru, who used Chia/Salba seeds as their main food ?
It means that grains have much more in them than anti-grainers think, much much more!
I’d add also, that most fruits are BAD, simply because they are…TASTY !
Why?
Because “tasty” in fruits means SWEET=Sugar.
Not only that, almost ALL FRUITS are ACIDIC.
except few like avocado, tomato and few more, which are basically vegetables, only grow like fruits.
Great post! I really enjoy reading this website.
Mainstream medical science is a hoax for the most part and the corporate shills and “skeptics” try to dupe people otherwise. Stay aware from conventional medicine and turn to natural nutritional/herbal treatments. Many of todays most deadly diseases can be traced back to our horrible dietary choices. In fact, the new field of epigenetics is proving that genetic determinism is a myth and that we can control our own health.
I can see that even here and on many other natural health forums that the shills of mainstream medicine persist.
I used to have these arguments on a dog forum with people arguing against me that grains are even good for dogs. That the cheap grain filler processed dog chow is “healthly” for a canine. UGH!!! Then I look around at all these fat middle aged dogs just screaming for some good old meat in their diet – depressing actually
I am 60. My mother lived to be 92 and
only cuz she stopped eating. All her
sisters lived in their 90’s and the one
sister lived to be 102.
True, i too get bad heartburn from
eating grain/starches. Fats, sauce does
not bother me.
I was a vegan when i was in my 20’s
for a yr. I got extremely weak and was
laying in bed all the time. I finally
got some protein pd. and drank it every
day. A week later i was back to normal.
I too was a vegitarian for 18 yrs.
I’ve been off it for 12 yrs. I am now
doing Atkins to lose 20 lbs, and am
just learning about the Palio diet. I
like it. I love the receipes too.
I forgot to add that my 92 yr old mom
ate mostly meat her whole life and not
chicken or turkey cuz she had to cut
their heads off as a teen and never ate
them again. So she ate hamburger, steak,
sausage, pork chops, ham and had meat
every single nite with some veggies and
a little carbs, but she never pigged out
on carbs. Her blood pressure was normal
and she had no diseases. Me, on the other hand had pigged out on carbs for
many yrs, and ate chicken instead of
red meat. I got high blood pressure.
I am not doing Atkins and considering
the paleo diet. My mom was thin. I have
gained almost 20 lbs at age 60. I think
my mom was healthier with the meat and
little carbs.
Oops….I mispelled…I am NOW doing
Atkins i meant to say! Again, the carbs
and the juices always gave me heartburn,
and yet i never get it with sauce or
fried meat!
I’ve enjoyed reading the back and forth arguments on this post. I think it’s safe to add grain avoidance to politics and religion on the list of ‘things not to discuss’.
My tuppence is:
Are all grains bad? No. All gluten grains are. The remaining ones don’t bring a lot to party nutrition-wise when comapred with veggies or a salad. So going for ‘optimal’ nutrition would mean forgoing grains and their derivatives. I personally don’t believe there are any magic micronutrients out there.
Is all sugar bad? No. Glucose is essential for the body functioning. Fructose is bad depending on the quantity and source. Some fruit won’t kill you.
I’ll add the caveat that the above applies to individuals in full health and not trying to lose weight only.
Todd the “American cancer Society” You mean that organisation that has for years suppressed natural cancer cures,tried to steal patents from people that have had a track record of proven success in CURING yes that’s in capitals, cancer. Is the AMCS the same multi billion dollar corporation funded by big pharma is that the same one you’re speaking of?.
OH Todd ….
And just as an aside I’m 52 5’9″ 75 KG and 5% BF year around and I DO eat grains, BUT since cutting down, I look and feel better.
No need to get insulting when making a point.
Science old chum wonderful thing isn’t it? Jeez its seems just like yesterday when we where told that cigarettes were good for you,breathing asbestos wasn’t going to harm you and the sun revolved around the earth,ooooops!
“paleodiet” is being increasingly mentioned here and there and everywhere, that it’s the healthiest diet.
If we’re talking about the food that our ancestors ate 5000 years ago, then it’s a big big mistake to assume that they lived long lives.
No, they didn’t. Their lifespan was 30 years.
So, I’m still not convinced that paleodiet is TheHealthiest diet. Is paleodiet = grainless diet ?
That’s is the original intention?
It seems like if people of European descent eat grains, their body’s are unable to process it and start developing various types of disease.
People of Asian descent like Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese don’t seem to have adverse effects with grain consumption, and they have been consuming masses of it like rice for about 2000+ years. Maybe their genetics are more geared towards grain consumption than Europeans are? If it were a problem, then wouldn’t they have noticed it sooner? They’ve only been starting to develop diseases commonly occurring in modernized Western countries ever since people became more international.
Mark, you reasoned that no living things wants to be consumed by another, including plants, and that they have thus created defense mechanisms. When it comes to animals, however, we’ve used our intelligence to develop weapons, traps and other such tools to get past their defenses. For those of us who are not gluten sensitive, what about using the tools of fermenting the grains or soaking them in an acidic solution in order to break down the phytates and such? According to varied literature I’ve come across, that’s exactly what our ancestors have done for centuries (at least).
So if we can’t have grains, what do people who exercise a lot do for getting increased carbohydrates?
Also, what is a better breakfast to have then instead of grains? I save salad and baked beans for lunch and I’m also trying to be a vegetarian.
Also, the grains keep you full for longer – won’t I end up crashing within an hour if I have salad for breakfast”
Oh my Massimo, you are seriously misinformed, to put it gently. Carbohydrates spike your insulin and make you hungry a couple of hours later. Fats and proteins keep you satiated and nourished and are not inflammatory like grains. You need to read The Primal Blueprint or you will be swimming against the tide in this forum.
Thanks for the advice! I honestly wasn’t suggesting that I was right. I actually think you guys are right, I’m just wondering what to eat instead? And also, oats aren’t the ‘worst’ thing in the world to eat really?
For carb refeeds related to workouts, eat tubers like yams, sweet potatoes, plantain for better non-inflammatory carbs, occasional potatoes and white rice in moderation are OK too.
Thank you so much for this!! I started the paleo “diet” in January and it was an amazing change, but recently fell of track on my honeymoon eating grains. I needed this to kickstart myself back into eating and feeling great!!
Is all this knowledge of fairly recent origin, meaning just a few decades old? I can’t imagine the world being so dependent on grains if the disadvantages are so well-known. Even the western world which thrives on meat has wheat as a secondary staple (bread). Or is there no alternative to grain for reasons of convenience (ease of storage and transport)? Can veggies/fruits ever replace grains the world over?
I am not a doctor but I definitely there is some validity to the fact that we don’t need grains, and they might actually have an adverse affect on some (if not most) of our bodies. I always feel bloated, tired and heavy after eating grains. I think we can get all the nutrients we need from other sources!
I have two main issues with your article. Firstly, you fail to deal sufficiently with the issue – your rebuttal seems to consist of an irrational “yuk” and nothing more. Fibre is very important in the maintencance of adequate gut motility and deficiencies are associated with a range of GI diseases. Secondly, your statement that phytates “render null and void” the argument that grains provide important minerals goes well beyond the evidence provided in your citation. Just because they reduce absorption doesn’t mean they prevent the absorption of all the minerals in the grain.
Hey, I have a question regarding body building. I myself count carbs and I require over 3500 per day at the moment. The bulk of the calories comes from grains (I eat over 500 g per day). Should I just replace the grains with meat/ vegetable source? I’m already eating over 700 g of meat a day. Protein is toxic in large amounts is it not? I’m really stumped as to what I can replace grains with.
We veterinarians are often asked about diet, and our answers need to be accurate because the consequences of wrong answers will not only harm our patients but our reputations as well. Diet is the foundation of good veterinary. If a farmer asks me how to fatten up his horse, cow, pig, chicken, sheep, dog, or cat I will answer, “Feed him grain.” It is generally known that this works. Why does my physician tell me to eat 5-10 servings of grain a day???
I’m sorry but this article is complete rubbish. Several (not all) of your studies are weak at best. Your fiber argument is more personal preference than fact. In addition, the paleolithic diet and it’s claims are highly contested by the scientific community — especially anthropologists. Finally, you are trying to sell books– which throws a level of bias into the mix.
THIS MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. WE ARE HUNTER AND GATHERERS FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS, I JUST CAN’T SEE EARLY HUMANS REMOVING TOUGH HUSK AND BOILING A GRAIN TO MAKE IT EDIBLE. AS A FUTURE RN AND A CURRENT NATURAL FOODS CHEF WHO IS ALLERGIC SEVERELY TO GLUTEN I AM GOING TO DEFINITELY RESEARCH THIS IDEA. THANKS FOR SHARING THIS ENLIGHTENING IDEA.
Pretty ridiculous if you ask me! There is no doctor, research, results, etc than can argue with a starch based, 100 percent plant based diet. There is not a stitch of evidence that proves any other diet will reverse / prevent heart disease and lower your risk of cancer.
No one can argue that. It’s fact, backed up by clinical evidence and peer reviewed results.
Mark do you honestly believe that a slice of pizza, a bowl of cereal, or the bun covering a hamburger or hot dog will kill you? There’s been many studies showing that whole or wheat grains, or brown rice are actually quite good for you.
My brother is a nutrition specialist, as was my grandfather. Switching to leaner meat, and eating a balanced, proportioned diet with a bit of everything is the key to health and happiness.
As far as I understood, animals can eat meat/bone because their digestive juices are much much stronger than we homo sapiens. Their digestive tract is 7 times shorter, hence putrifaction does not occur before elimination. Their teeth and claws are designed for ripping and tearing at flesh. They can run faster and can catch their prey. We on the other hand have teeth more for grinding food, our legs and hands are designed for foraging and picking food on the ground. I am new to the grain theory being unhealthy for you, but do have times when, (for no apparent reason to me), I suffer bouts of bloat and digestive distress. Perhaps this can be related to grains. I have read lately that studies on the blood of people who eat meat is entirely different to those that don’t. The blood from the vegetarian was the clear winner.
I am a vegan through choice because I have a conscience and love for every living animal. There is absolutely nothing related to the slaughter of animals, and the milk and dairy industry that does not involve unbelievable pain and suffering for all animals. Just look into it sometime and a lot of you would be so shocked at what goes on that it might cause you to stop eating any animal products ever again:)
Your thoughts on Quinoa, Peruvian staple for several thousand years? It’s the only grain that contains 7 (I think) of the essential amino acids found in protein.
No comas esto, no comas el otro, bahhhhh! Yo como pan y que!!!
Arrepientanse hippies, todo lo que comen les hace da~o porque viven en una vida llena de pecado y por eso tienen miedo de comer lo que Dios creo para nuestro bien….ustedes le dicen malo a lo que Dios dice bueno. Estan enfermos por pecadores NO por comer gluten o granos. Arrepientanse!
Well, I’ve reached the limit of this type of stuff and it’s time to just go back to common sense. There are those who tell you to NEVER eat red meat. You aren’t supposed to eat too much (if any) fish because of mercury. Other’s will tell you that eggs and dairy products including cheese are the path to death. And don’t even think of eating legume. Nut’s have too much fat. Don’t eat fried food. Now we are warned that we should never eat grains! And oh! Don’t eat too much fruit because it has lots of sugar! And even though we have been told that water soluble fiber is good for use, now we are told that it tears our guts up. Nonsense!
What can we eat! Should we just breathe air and eat nothing? Oh wait! The air is bad for use too.
I do understand the argument that grain is not something that primitive man would have eaten and we did not evolve to eat grains but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are bad for you.
You can talk to ten experts and get ten completely different recommendations about what we should and shouldn’t eat. Just do a search for “benefits of eating grains,” etc., and you will find all kinds of experts singing the praises and listing the benefits of eating grains.
My oldest daughter (42), the director of the cardio unit and the drug and alcohol rehab unit of a major hospital in Chicago has been on all these diets because she has a weight problem and she has even stopped eating grains. She has seen no difference at all. Now she is on a truly radical diet where she can’t eat hardly anything except juices and she has gained weight and now has other health issues.
I’m 62 and let myself get moderately over weight. I took a different path. I just cut down the volume of food I ate, virtually eliminated junk food (chips, etc.), cut down on fried food and meat and I eat a lot more fresh vegetables and fruits. My weight is going down steadily and I feel better. I’m about halfway to my ideal weight. And I eat grains. In fact, I eat oatmeal on most mornings. Some experts will tell you that it is good for you and helps reduce HDL cholesterol but, according to this article, I shouldn’t be eating that either. C’mon!
When I got to the claim in this article that fiber tears your intestinal walls up, the nonsense bell went off and the whole article lost credibility. From the way he described it, you would think eating fiber is the equivalent of eating crushed glass. Does anyone actually believe that the fiber retains rough, scratchy texture by the time it reaches your intestines? Geez! It passes through your stomach and is broken down in acid.
I think this problem of having so much conflicting information from so many “experts” is simply because they want to come up with something different to push or sell. After all, how can you sell something that everyone already knows? So the “expert” have to come up with something to distinguish themselves from all the other “experts.” Facts are ignored.
There is so much contradictory information out there that anyone trying to truly learn how to eat healthy can go nuts in the pursuit of that info.
Folks, I truly believe the real answer is simply moderation and greatly reducing your intake of those things that common sense tells you is bad for you. Most of us should probably cut back on sugar, for example. Most of us should probably increase our consumption of vegetables and fruits too. That’s what I’m doing and it’s working. Common sense.
But we have to enjoy life too. How can you enjoy your life if you can’t eat meat, grains, fruits, etc. That’s not how I’m going to live. The people I know who stick to radical diets I(like not eating grains, etc.) are some of the most unhappy people I have known and I have never seen any sign that they are healthier either. In fact, some of the most sickly and unhealthy people I have ever known are vegetarians and vegans. Folks, we are meat eaters! We have meat-eating teeth. That should tell you that you evolved to eat meat. Sure! Many of us probably eat too much meat, especially fatty meat, but cutting it completely out is not going to make you healthier.
It does seem that the one thing that everyone agrees on is that we should eat more fresh vegetables. That makes sense to me. But then we are told that we must only eat “organic” vegetables. That term is so misused. All vegetables and, in fact, everything we eat with the exception of salt (another thing we are warned to avoid!) s organic. Anything that was once alive is, by definition, organic. What the people who tell you to only eat organic products really mean to say is “organically grown,” that is, natural feed with no chemicals were fed to that animals we eat and chemical fertilizers and pesticides were not used with the crops that we eat. There is probably some truth to all of this but, from the best information I have read, it really doesn’t make that much difference. I have been an organic gardener for 35 years and but my source of manure has dried up in recent years so I use moderate amounts of chemical fertilizers and see no difference at all. However, my soil structure is not as good now and good soil structure does make for healthier plants but that’s another story. But the point is that I have seen reliable studies that show that there is virtually no difference in vegetables and fruit grown organically or with chemical fertilizers. I think many people are obsessing about this “organic” thing to the point of insanity.
Now, do an internet search for something like “why eating grains is good for you” and you will find other experts that completely contradict this article.
Think for yourself. Use common sense and moderation and don’t take everything you read from “experts” too seriously. And, most importantly, enjoy yourself.
Excellent post. All of these nutrition theories are contradicting and confusing. Every food has been called bad by some group, except maybe vegetables. Who’s to say what’s right? I’m still in progress for losing weight, but I’m thinking that eating less processed food and less food overall should be sensible.
OMG I CAN’T READ THESE COMMENTS ANYMORE. Why so much arrogance and arguing? Let’s just share information to help each other become healthier! I’m going to a different website to read information from people that care about helping others, not just about proving they are smarter than the next person.
most people have no problem digesting grains(hell the ukrainians eat a large grain diet & its common to see people in their 80s or 90s) & recieving their benefits.If original man came across ice cream on trees or bread in the forest,you sure as hell bet they would of eaten it,its called survival.The human body can digest & break down to use as fuel & energy almost anything let alone grains with its nutrients.To say man needs millions of years to properly digest a food is rubbish.Didn^t God feed his starving people manna(bread) in the wilderness? Didn^t God in Ezekiel tell Noah to bring with him foods like grains to store.How about Christ multiplying the fish & Loaves(bread) for the people to feed ?Grains ,dairy,meat ,fruits & vegetables,alcohol in moderation & yes the occasional treat(ice cream pies) a balanced diet can lead to health & happiness in conjunction to other lifestyle changes
This blog does deserve some credit for tackling a legit question, but it’s still just a layman speculating selectively. It’s true that evolutionarily there’s no mandate for us to be eating grains. In a perfect world, we’d all be healthiest eating only wild game and fish and seafood, supplemented with some berries and other fruits as well as some wild greens, legumes and roots –– all from a pristine environment. But, sadly, it’s not really world we live in. In our lives, whole-grains-based foods –– which are complex foods –– do provide not only vitamins and roughage but some of the complex carbohydrates and, yes, protein that we might be getting from other sources. Taking these grain foods out of our diet makes us very dependant on meats (with all the issues that surround the quality of most meat available to us) and/or soy or other legumes (which are superb, but which most people have some upper limits in dealing with). So, it takes a lot of work and expense to dodge grain-based products.
Still, it might be worth it for some. Certainly couldn’t hurt to try it as an experiment for a month or two. You just need to make sure you get good balance in what you’re putting in its place, which will be challenging.
I am so confused. I am 42 and trying to lose weight – for all the reasons it is good for one to do so.
I have PCOS and my weight has gone up and down since puberty.
I need to get off sugar and high carbs.
Recently – my blood sugar was 101 and cholesterol was 248.
I am 5 ‘5’ and was 213 pounds. (I am now 206).
I am eating organic eggs, big ass salads, Wild Alaskan salmon, organic dairy (not a lot of dairy), avocados, nuts, olive oil, veggies, fruits, peanut butter, some whole grains, beans and the like.
All this as organic and or as natural as possible.
I have been doing a lot of research as well.
I have tried many eating styles in my life.
I do a lot of research each time – but the healthy community is so contradictory I don’t what is up or down anymore.
Until recently I was sure whole grains were essential to a healthy diet.
What do people think about soy? Tofu?
Soybeans?
I feel like everything is getting eliminated down to the wire and what is left to eat?
For me I have the risk of diabetes and heart disease big time. I want to lose weight and get healthy and avoid my genetic predisposition.
I have been eating well for over 3 wks now and definitely feel a lot better. I am slowly acquiescing to my new way of eating.
I am willing to try cutting out grains as I never had a penchant for them anyway.
My big addiction is sugar.
I have cut way back on that as well. What do you think of Stevia?
I have done a lot of research on Stevia as well and it seems like it’s a good thing when I weigh the debate over it.
I suffer from PCOS and most of its symptoms.
Distended belly, hirsutism, low metabolism, etc.
Can a healthy low carb high protein diet help?
I believe in balance and not being so extreme.
I am also taking Salmon oil pills from a company called “Vital Choice”.
I also ordered canned salmon from them.
They have rave reviews from health experts and consumers.
I just get confused sometimes-
Vegan, Vegetarian, Pescoterian,(sp?) , low carb, high complex carb, gluten free, dairy free, sugar free, organic etc. Supplements or no supplements…
It makes my head spin.
Right now it seems like healthy fat low mercury fish such as salmon, vegetables, fruits, nuts, healthy oils, some grains? some dairy? and beans seems like the way to go.
I am confused about beans- I thought they were supposed to be a diet staple. Garbanzo beans?
I thought they were a real winner! And to think of giving up dairy is frightening me a little. I love it and am now doing my best to go all organic with the dairy.
I don’t want to not ever have pizza and ice cream and the like ever again. Just not on a daily basis.
But specialty indulgences I think are ‘good for you’ in moderation/special occasions.
I’m puzzled that grains are wholehearted condemned, without the consideration of how early agrarian man (and up until the last 70 -80 years) prepared these grains. Could it be that modern processes, ultrafine milling and hurry-up preparation is part of the problem. Indigenous man always soaked (like sourdough) their grains – which neutralizes phytic acids, enzyme inhibitors, gluten, etc. Early agrarian man was not stupid and did not continue to eat home grown foods if it brought on ill health. Genuine sourdough breads and fermented/soaked grains are a completely different creature that raw grains or commercially prepared grains and breads.
Very interesting stuff Kyle. Thank You for the information. I am trying Paleo as closely as I can. I can do w/o grains so it’s neither here nor there for me. Beans and dairy are another matter. What do you think of tempeh? They are fermented soybeans.
I just find it hard to believe that ancient man didn’t discover beans and grains.
So, I fell off the wagon 4 days ago when I went into a health food store with a bakery and a baker who makes portugese and other european freshly bakes goods…GAH !
I bought a warm loaf of multi-grain bread, with a ton of raw sunflower seeds in it. My excuse was that sunflower seeds are possibly paleo and it went down hill from there LOL.
Gotta get back on the primal wagon before the ticking bomb goes off (digestion).
Wait a minute I am a culinary student and i know a few things about grains and they are healthy for you. now they can become unhealthy if you eat too much of them. it is like anything else portion control. take this up with those who know grains and cook with them and see what the response would be.
I’ve been looking into the no-grain thing since a colleague who follows the paleo diet talked about it. I’m in the process of phasing out the evil grains now. For the record I’m not paleo but organic veggie though still find this article very relevant and helpful. Thanks for posting
🙂
What about all those Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, and Indians eating rice since they established themselves? They only had obesity and diabetes since they became more international.
By the way, I read the article regarding how “Scientists Learn More About How Roughage Keeps You ‘Regular'”.
According to that article, foods containing lots of fibre “make their way down the gastrointestinal tract, they run into cells, tearing them and freeing lubricating mucus within”
Mr. Sisson says that this rupturing seems dangerous and unhealthy for the cells of the gastrointestinal tract.
I have a question. Is rupturing of the cells necessarily unhealthy (aside from male circumcision which literally ruptures thousands of cells permanently). Because in order for humans to build muscle, we need to exert the muscle, and cause micro-tears on the muscle cells. Then as the muscle cells “heal” (with correct amino acids), it gets stronger.
What I’m saying is that is the rupturing of the gastrointestinal cells from fiber to help us pass stool easier really that bad because the rupturing of the muscle cells during body-building is what makes us stronger?
Grains and omega6 oil will destroy the good bacteria in your gut. Since these bacteria provide the vitamin k2 that you need for healthy bones, loosing them leads to osteoporosis. Did I mention auto immune issues? Americans (I’m Dutch) suffer an all time high rate of auto-immune diseases and bowel cancer. And the rate has gone up ever since some braindead fool convinced everybody the SAD is healthy. So enjoy your grains; it’s your health.
maybe humans’ dietary requirements actually have changed since paleo times. maybe we have always been in a constant state of evolutionary flux ever since the only thing that existed on earth was single celled organisms in nutrient rich pools. it’s not like we humans all just popped up one day and ate lots of meat and berries and for some divine reason that will be the diet that we require until the end of our stay on this planet. diet is based on what mother nature has made available to us at that given time in history. the diet of the future is as ever changing as the diet of today, which is as ever changing as the diet of yesterday and so on. meat, grain, whatever. anyway that’s my logic for today lol (which might change tomorrow)
I am really amazed so many people are falling for this crap. Grains are essential to the modern diet and are only hazardous to people who are unable to digest it, which is why there are alternatives for them. Why should the rest of us listen to some random guy with a blog and an agenda. Come on people, wise up, maybe you should take a nutrition class and decide for yourself. I recommend everyone look at the reasons why grains are good for you and those reasons will FAR outweigh the ones stated above.
Good day. I eat a high carb diet of mostly rice, fruits and vegetables. I’m not overweight. Yes grains probably have phytates, lectins etc but can we really conclude that the bulk of our calories should come from meat/fish/eggs instead? Grains aren’t perfect and they might have certain bad things about them that meat doesn’t but that doesn’t necessarily make meat a better option. Would you fuel your your unleaded petrol car with diesel if it was that or bad quality petrol? This is how I see it.
It’s said here that our cells prefer fat. I haven’t seen enough reason to believe this but even if it were true, meat wouldn’t be the ideal source as it has tough fibres and proteins that your body needs to break down which uses a lot of energy. Fruit however is already broken down. Within minutes of eating it everything gets to where it needs to be (iron, b12, amino acids, EFAs, it’s all in there). Providing nothing’s causing insulin resistance such as fat, there’s little reasons for sugar to linger in the blood. I’ve experienced many diets and I believe fruit is a good dietary staple.
Look at Asian countries such as Japan and China and see how traditionally they have high levels or grain in their diet yet little disease, even if you want to argue that their diets have reasonable amounts of animal fats also. What does it matter if they calorie restrict or not? It’s irrevelant. Believe and do what you wish but I’d just like to suggest that people look into both sides more deeply and try them before coming to conclusions. I’ve researched both sides heavily and am happy with my choices yet my mind still welcomes new arugments.
here is a quote from the 100 year old man named fauja singh who recently completed the toronto marathon about his strict diet:
“I never thought of running a Marathon then. But slowly it grew”. What surprises many is that he supports his eight stone and six feet tall body frame with a very simple vegetarian diet. “I am very careful about different foods. My diet is simple phulka (chappati), dal (lentils), green vegetables, yoghurt and milk. I do not touch parathas, pakoras, rice or any other fried food. I take lots of water and tea with ginger.”
so….i will now await others to provide a list of people who are COMPLETING MARATHONS AT 100 YEARS OF AGE WHO DO NOT TOUCH GRAINS…..come on lets see ’em (he he he)
I admittedly didn’t read the whole blog, but I still think he’s a bit of an idiot. Unless this whole page is just a joke, in which case my bad. The first paragraph lost any shred reliability that this guy has. The cells “rupture”. Oh no! Rupture is a bad word. The cells are designed to rupture you dumb ass. And release the lubricant for nutrients to be able to cross into our bodies and keep moving. That’s like saying skin growth is bad, because the cells die to form a protective layer. Anyways, it is an interesting thought though that grains are all great for you. I’ve already known that about simple carbs and potatoes and stuff. But then again where else do we get energy? It sounds like a lot of hard work and will put our diets way out of balance if we have to get all our calories from meat dairy and salad. 😛
“They are a distinctly Neolithic food that the human animal has yet to adapt to consuming.” tell me this. how are humans going to adapt to eating wheat if people do not eat it? Grain food will be more important than ever when the veggie and animal farming fails.
Im just a little confused about the rice idea….native americans have eaten rice for centuries, as have the chinese and japanese, who have among the longest life expectancies on earth. While I do agree that there are a lot of negatives with grains, I don’t feel that they are all created equally. Oatmeal has been shown to have numerous health benefits, while other things endorsed on this site, such as red meat, has been shown to contain carcinogens if cooked to a certain temperature. As I scientist, I am skeptical and quite frankly, I think grains in moderation are perfectly fine.
I would just like more in the way of scientific evidence for your rant. I have no doubt you believe what you say… but belief doesn’t convince people. You basically call me an idiot for eating grains and base it mostly on personal opinion… you need more links to reference your points, that way your rant can be calm and productive… not resorting to negativity to try to validate your point insulting.
I will right away grab your rss as I can not find your e-mail subscription link or e-newsletter service. Do you have any? Please let me know so that I could subscribe. Thanks.
Why are so many people stating so much speculation as fact. Things like, “cavemen ate this….” or statements like “Eliminating grains from my diet made me healthy…”
really? How do we know exactly what cavemen ate? Did they keep a journal of all their meals on the walls of every cave around the world? No. Is it possible that those claiming they are healthy now perhaps lost weight and that is why you are healthy? I have read many scientific studies that show high occurances of cancer and heart disease with the consumption of dairy and animal protein (meat). Has anyone seen “Forks over Knives”? I decided to do some research after watching it because I was skeptical. Well long story short… I’m convinced that dairy and high consumption of meat leads to heart disease and maybe some cancers as well. Why are we suppossed to eat like a caveman, especially when nobody really knows every last thing they ate. So in conclusion I’ve decided to go vegan for a month and see how I feel. I try to keep an open mind to things. I will keep you updated on my new vegan progress. I am on day 3 of no animal products and the biggest difference I notice is I don’t feel lethargic like I used to. If you want to know more look up “Forks over Knives” very interesting to say the least.
You are ignorant about the proper cooking methods needed to obtain the nutrition from legumes and grains. I hope you like colon cancer cause that is what your future may look like on a high animal protein diet.
People, really, when you say that steak causes cholesterol, what about people who never eat it yet have high bad cholesterol? The cause is unknown. Eat steaks if you enjoy them. Listen to your body. For example I not a steak fan, I eat meat once a week and not always read meat, it is chicken or pork.
and herein lies the rub. if everyone on the planet who is eating the typical ‘meat n potatoes’ at every meal were to get some common sense and cut the meat down to once a week like you stated, we’d be 50% of the way towards a better planet. saving the fact that the other 50% percent would require the same type of reduction of heavily processed ‘junk’ foods. if the modernized countries began to eat like this, the vegetarians and vegans wouldn’t even feel the need to preach their philosophy anymore either. win win. high bad cholesterol can be caused both by over consuming not only fatty meats, but processed foods, nuts, sugars, oils etc. meat is part of the list, especially high amounts of red meat, but you are right it is not the only culprit
Lectins are bad?? All foods have lectins in them, why are grain lectins bad? Hmmm, cows eat grain?, but meat good?? Kind of seems like you are picking and choosing? I totally agree we don’t need to eat grains or the amount we do, but let’s at least be consistent, you can’t have it both ways.
Cows are not supposed to eat grains, and if you read Mark’s book or read any halfway decent book on nutrition, you’ll see that they DON’T recommend eating grain fed beef. You should be eating grass fed beef and pastured chickens.
Reason to eat grains: they taste nice, and we don’t just eat for nutrition. There’s no reason to eat chocolate or drink alcohol either, but they’re nice too. Eating and drinking for pleasure as well as for pure nutritional benefit makes eating a lifestyle rather than a life sentence. Agree that most people eat too many grains, but going to the extreme of not allowing them at all can very easily lead to obsession with food which, let’s face it, we’re getting close to as a society.
Why does everyone keep referring to Taubes GCBC as gospel. Do a little research people, his science in more than one instance has been proven wrong. Does he have some good points? Yes. It’s amazing how people get so full of themselves that ‘THEIR’ diet or lifestyle is right and everyone else is wrong. It’s also interesting to note that most people from what I have read on different Paleo forums cheat. The 80/20 rule. Seems to me though of us that eat ‘normal healthy’ diets with limited grains and limited meats with lots of fruit and veggies, we’re all pretty much in the same place.
Just my opinion.
People can decide whatever they want to eat. I myself am a vegan- no animal products (meat, eggs, dairy, honey)- and I am trying to wean myself off of flours, sugar, and refined oils. Basically, I want to eat fruits and vegetables the rest of my life. I’m not arguing that anyone should be like me, and I don’t want anyone else to try and persuade me to be like them.
In general, our society eats too MUCH of EVERYTHING. Most cancers, health problems are simply caused by that alone. If a person starts eating a healthy amount of calories, however, there are still health problems related to eating certain things. There are certain foods which I would consider poisons to the body.
– Refined sugars and breads/flours (all forms) – send blood sugar into a hyper- and hypo-glycemic states, provide fuel for cancer cells.
– Meat with high saturated fat (beef, veal, pork, ham, chicken-yes it is just as high as beef- ) – high LDL sat. fat which is the only fat known to clog arteries (therefore strokes, heart-attacks, biological erectile dysfunction – all blood related disorders).
– Refined oils – too much fat. Unless you’re stocking up for winter- which even Minnesotans try to avoid- it’s better to get fat from nuts and seeds (not butters).
– Dairy – why would I drink from a cow’s teet? Crossing species, and age groups, is really weird.
– Eggs – again, I really don’t enjoy the idea of eating the baby juice of a different species.. kinda gross.
I live in a 3rd world country, India, so it’s amusing to see all the concern about the harm that grains may do. Looks as tho’ a statiscally insignificant part of the US population (pl correct me if I’m wrong) has suffered reactions to gluten, and other similar consequences. But please, folks, look at the larger picture of the world.
Sure we’ve been on grains and agri-products only for the last 10000 yrs out of a million or two on the planet, but in this period a large part of the planet’s population has survived and thrived reasonably well on a grain-centric diet. Can we claim that as a species we are unsuited to digestion of grains and legumes? Not if you ask the zillions below the poverty line world-wide, to whom grains are survival and meat a luxury.
Agreed that animal protein may be better, but is it a realistic proposition for the world’s population as it is today. It’s well-known that a veg diet takes less of the planet’s resources than breeding animals for food. And with today’s emphasis on grass-fed beef et al it’s even more unrealistic to expect the bulk of homo sapiens to switch to healthy animal protein. A miniscule proportion may be able to do it at gradually increasing cost (the US probably still has a lot of wide open spaces), but is this what we should be propagating? Food for thought?
great stop eating grains….and the world would starve in a week…by the way eating whole grains in moderation will help keep a healthy gut and promote an active and alert lifestyle…better than living on salad and pesticide covered root vegetables all day……who wants to live to 100 and shit and piss yourself in a corner of a nursing home being bathed by minimum wage paid pissed off staff..
listen to you all babble. let ppl eat what they want and worry about yourself. your not going to change the average americans mind on nutrition. the paleo lifestyle needs to be left alone to “evolve” just like everything else in this world.
There are many things Science can’t explain. All doctors say that it is necessary to wear sunscreen to block UV rays. We know how wrong that is and we need sun’s rays for vitamin D. Similarly, dissecting foods into its basic nutrients and arguing that grains are unhealthy or we don’t need grains isn’t the right approach. We need all kinds of wholesome plant based foods to achieve the right nutrition and optimum health. I always take Scientific result with a pinch of salt.
Actually, eating grains without proper preparation is bad. I’ve been researching this a lot lately and I found that soaking the grains breaks down phytic acid and helps the nutrients and minerals to absorb in our body; whereas the phytic acid was killing them. I’ve been baking my own bread for years, but began soaking the grains recently. Now my bread makes me feel fuller and is so tasty. Since I’ve been soaking my grains I feel better, don’t need as much coffee and I don’t feel the need to eat as much. Grains unsoaked are like poison. So either find a company that soaks their grains prior to baking or invest your time in making your own bread. It’s worth it!
Credentials please? Are you a nutrition MD? PHD? Really? The world is not so black and white. I hear people screaming, All carbs, no carbs, no fats, all fats, it is ridiculous! Have you even considered grains (without gluten) like buckwheat (which has no wheat or gluten), amaranth, and quinoa, with extremely different nutritional profiles. There are a reason people have been using these grains since the beginning of time. No carb is created equal. Just like fats, unlike the name fat implies we need healthy fats for brain function, our brains are in fact 80% fat. Want to know why people are obese and sick? Because of 1. processed foods and the addictions they cause, 2. pesticides from non organic products 3. not enough macronutrients from veggies and fruit.. not because of grains.
People are obese and sick because of their diets, lack of exercise and stress reduction. Diets for many people include handy processed or fast food with many addictive additives added and low nutritional density. Even foods grown today are deficient in minerals unless the farmer replaces them into the soil, add pesticides and herbicides that are now incorporated into the food itself instead of just on the plant. Corn for instance has no similarity nutritionally to corn grown 50 years ago because of hybridization and being genitically modified. We farm and grow our own organic gardens, freeze and can our produce and give it away. It is canned in glass jars opposed to the BPA lined cans used by mfg. I grow many heirloom vegetables–the taste is phenomenol. Farmer grows corn, soy beans and wheat. Wheat is another product that is not at all similar to what it was 50 yrs ago and soy in my opinion should not be eaten unless it is in fermented form due to its estrogenic promoting effects. Another huge area to research is fats! Canola oil made from rapeseed was originally made as a lubricant for machinery, it is also one of the most touted “good” oils–I never use it! My fats are organic butter, limited use, virgin cold pressed olive oil, pure organic cocoanut oil for higher heat use, also walnut or hemp oil for salad dressings. Coconut oil is high in saturated fats which many MD’s think is “bad”; however
it is composed of medium chain fatty acids needed by every cell in our body and for energy. Bruce Fife’s book Coconut Cures in packed with info on the many uses for this oil which also has a long shelf life. Excellent for skin care all over the body, enhances the immune system and dozens of other benefits. I have been using it almost exclusively (sometimes mixed with honey) as a spread on whole grain toast eaten only occasionally and when I need an energy boost 1 tablespoonful just to eat. Farmer is 80, I am 75, no pharm meds, wt normal, travel worldwide and eat to survive–feed our bodies. And as said before, we are not all alike, thank goodness so part of our life journey is to learn what enhances it and what to leave behind.
I’m glad this article referenced so many scientific studies otherwise I might of assumed the author was just making it up from his limited laymans knowledge…oh wait
What a load of rubbish while grains are definitely not the most micronutrient rich food there is no evidence to suggest that Grain based foods eaten in moderation are detrimental to human health in fact the opposite is true especially for those performing exercise.
The argument that humans havent been eating grains through most of their recent history suffers from the fallacy that throughout most of our recent history we have been eating leaves and fruit and living in trees. We had much shorter life expectancies than today and drunk alcohol long before the invention of agriculture and just try telling me that’s healthy.
What there is evidence for is that giving up meat is actually a far healthier choice than giving up grains
If anyone wants to know my sources or studies referenced please email me, if anyone wants to know the reputable sources referenced in this article I can list them now if you like:…
Thank you for posting this. I first learned about gluten and what it was about three years ago. My sister was having some really unpleasant IBS-like symptoms, and after visiting a doctor, he suggested she abstain from gluten and see if it helped. It did help her, so I started looking up info for myself. I am not gluten intolerant or anything like that, but since then, I have more or less abstained from gluten and I find that it not only has helped me loose weight, but I generally just feel an overall sense of well being.
Many people still do know about gluten, what it is, what foods you find it in, and what it does to your body, so I think it is great that more and more people are trying to get the word out.
There is no gluten in rye… to make rye bread rye flour is mixed with other grains to develop gluten. Get your facts straight; also it seems you are reading 1 or 2 informative research projects and drawing you own askew and drastically different conclusion. For every article out there agreeing with your argument there are an insane amount of research articles that could give information to disagree with you. It is important to combine all the research and weigh the pros and cons and you have not done this. I feel terrible knowing there are people taking your opinion (yes opinion) as fact instead of doing their own research and making up their own minds based on pros and cons.
Many of us did and others had shorter lives. The non agriculturalist peoples had stronger bones and taller bodies, which is a reason that less civilized tribes could sometimes overpower civilizations. Usually ten farmers could defeat one non agriculturalist.
Basically grains enabled people to live in a state of ill health.
“Is there a good reason for anyone (with access to meat, fruit, and vegetables, that is) to rely on cereal grains for a significant portion of their caloric intake?”
Yes, advancing human evolution. It’s not my fault all you grain/carb-intolerant folks have been too slow to catch up genetically.
I was wondering if Mark or anyone else commenting here can help me:
I eat very minimal meat (chicken and fish once a week if anything), avoid milk, eggs, and processed foods. Now after reading this I’m considering removing bread and rice to the extent possible from my diet as well. However, I can’t live off of fruits and vegetables (+nuts) my entire life. Are lentils a grain? And pasta? I’m wondering what other variety I can add to my diet.
I’m on day four (who’s counting, right?) of eliminating grains. I just realized I am making a morning smoothie that does contain rice and pea protein, but other than that, no grains at all. I feel good emotionally, the gut is not as distended, but I feel pretty tired and hungry pretty much all the time. I’m enjoying my meals very much (grass fed burger last night, no bun, avocado/tomato salad, some fermented cabbage and marinated pickles) but I’m just wondering if there’s a sort of “breaking point” where it becomes easier? I’m really feeling like this is the lifestyle for me, due to the nagging health issues (sinus headaches, bad digestion, achy joints) but I have to say, I usually feel much better in the morning after a bowl of cereal for dinner (i.e. no meat) instead of the meat heavy meal I had last night. Anyone willing to share their experience?
Being disatisfied with all the overprocessed muesli that’s made available to us in supermarkets I’ve been looking up recipes all evening to make my own, minus the sugar and unnecessary fats etc…and lo, here i find myself in the midst of a very intelligent debate on the curse of the grain, the main components of muesli 🙂 The last few hours have been spent researching the benefits of each grain with the emphasis on those gluten free. I’m enlightened further by all the info written on here. I can see how it all gets confusing but clearly some arguments are well presented and others are, well, not so…it doesn’t mean they’re wrong in their ramblings tho. Personally, at the age of 47 and about to hit the menopause, i’m interested in being the healthiest i can be before i go beyond redemption and thus hurtling into old age with a host of ailments. I also have narcolepsy. I can probably, if i really put my mind (and pen) to it, list certain foods that will definately fatigue you all, and some that boost energy thru the roof. My diet is a major factor in my present stability and since being diagnosed a few years ago i’ve lost 6 stone thru careful planning and experimentation. I concur It’s all in the balance and as someone said earlier….I would advise that all concerns are researched and work out what’s best for YOU. Fact is, we are not all the same. We each have our own genetic makeup aswell as other factors such as inherited disorders, lifestyle factors such as finance, demographics, social inconvenience and personal tastes and preferences. I’m only slightly overweight…but i have quit smoking recently and gained about 6lb instead of some likely lung disease that will rob me of my dignity, my looks and eventually my life 🙂 I’ve been smoking since i was 8 years old…so this was my biggest health issue…and now i’m onto the next. I am fairly versed in good/bad foods….food is also my passion, if i have to eat it to survive then im gonna enjoy it! Right? So…back to the muesli debate. I eat a very balanced diet that works for me…this includes grains such as oats, chia, quinoa and also i need to eat physillium husk for fibre. Trust me…nothing else works for me. If i don’t have these grains, i back up quicker than the worlds biggest semi trailer and it’s not pretty!!! My skin also goes to ratshit…and that’s when i cut all the grains/carbs out. I panicked after losing 9lb in 2 days on a high lean protein/green veg/eggs diet…my neck was scrawnier than a prized turkeys! I don’t eat white rice, white potatoes, white bread (rarely eat bread at all actually). I eat low fat, hardly any dairy or alcohol, nothing excessively. I do eat the occassional cake, cookie, dessert, prime steak, lots of vegetable (mainly greens) and certain fruits. A contradiction of a diet?? hell yeah…and guess what? I feel ok, i look pretty good too apparently (for my age). So what’s my problem…well, i just wanna cut out the crap that’s being poured into our groceries, the processed stuff….i wanna be able to make my own healthier but tastier muesli for my breakfast, my own healthy soups for my lunch…varied, satisfying and tasty abut not poisoned out of my control. I’m STILL taking charge of my own health, i’m still learning what works best for me and what i can do without. I’ll die anyway, and THAT my friends, is THE only single certainty in this life. No-one is wrong on here…not in my opinion anyway. We all have different experiences, we all have valid points and it’s all because we all have different things going on in our very different bodies. As i’m sure Mark intended….let’s keep it informative, debatable and worthy….not personal, sarcastic and proud. Each to his own….as they say. Love, Laugh, Live….healthily balanced. Oh, and this is what triggered my recent concern with grains: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/wheat-gluten_b_1274872.html
I have recently opened my eyes to the grain filled existence that most of us live. I remain an addict but have vastly reduced my intake while eating far more veggies, nuts and fruit ! I have to say, i do feel better with far more energy, less stomach problems etc. There are many opinions here on what we should consuming for reasons of either nutrition or also sustainability ….. I wonder has anyone here turned towards eating more insects, most are not only edible but also rich in nutrients and plentiful.
really? grains are bad for you? i dont know what drug youve been messing with but your completely wrong. lets say you want to be healthy and start working out daily. when you workout for the first 30min the energy comes from carbs. and where do you find carbs? thats right, in grains. so without adequate carb consumption you wont be able to achieve a healthy lifestyle because your workouts wont prosper because of inadequate carb consumption
Im way late getting to post here but I just wanted to add my experience after following a strict paleo diet and I’m at the 1 1/2 month mark.
1. At 170 lbs and being a very active person I trimmed down 8 lbs. Following my reg exercise and eating all I want. I do not count calories.
2. Cured my acne. Ya I CURED my acne I’ve been living with forever. (this was a happy accident):)
3. My blood sugar is perfect. I haven’t felt lightheaded or sluggish(needing sugar fix)
4. Im feeling 100 times better not relying on grains for food energy, and as a result of the strict regimen of fruit and veggies and fatty foods I no longer ‘crave’ bread,Doritos,candy bars, or crap food I could do without.
I’ve gone from thinking I was a healthy person to actually being and feeling very healthy. You just gotta want it!
I am confused. What is the difference between a seed(pumpkin, sunflower, etc.) and a grain(wheat, corn)? Is fresh corn on the cob OK? How about sprouts (alfalfa)?
I totally understand why grains are useless and all, but back in the caveman days, the earth had far less people on it. Is this primal blueprint sustainable today? Are you suggesting that we try to reverse the agricultural revolution and go back to how civilization once was? Grains feed the world, keep us alive. A switch back would cause severe lack of food, starvation, war, destruction of the environment, etc. I’m curious to know what your take is on that.
The Earth’s large population was ‘enabled’ (in the worst sense of that word) by the ag revolution. Large families are only necessary in the disease-ridden, patriarchal, territorial scheme necessitatied by an agricultural economy. Quite frankly, what upside is there to 8 billion people on the planet? If the population ever decreases greatly for whatever reason, I am all for keeping it low going forward.
There is no other explanation comes to my mind other than this sentence:
“Being spoiled little bratz”.
You know what? You don’t have to eat anything, just stop eating altogether and be a little help to the rest of us; maybe soon you’ll stop consuming air…
I’m not a fan of acting like a big jerk, but seriously?
Why would anyone wrote an article, just to try to convince itself through messing up with others’ minds?
Grains, you sleepyhead, are nature’s one of the most incredible features: They contain the life; in a “suspended animation” state. They contain the basic ingredient of a life on any place that is suitable. Once grains get in touch with water, they begin to thrive, every, single, one of them!
Infact, your meat eating brain and fat storing tummy doesn’t really need to eat anything for a whole year! You can drink water and that’s it! You do NOT deserve food!
Trying to bad mouth grains would be the stupidest thing to kid yourself from whining and saying “mom, i don’t wanna eat that…”
Don’t eat it, you unnecessary abuser of the content! Apparently, you don’t deserve to eat OR “thrive”.
Next time when you found some food on your plate, DO NOT EAT IT!
Let bacterias have it; after all, they have more integrity than your poor existence.
…
What a nerve…
Everyone is different. There are billions of people on this earth whose primary source of food is grains and they don’t seem to be doing too bad consuming so called “No benefit, plain evil” food source.
I don’t believe their is significant scientific data which is peer reviewed to CONCLUDE that grains are evil.
Well with your arguments you could apply this to any nutritious food. Fruit and vegetables are rich with antioxidants, vitamins and minerals, aswell as seeds, nuts etc. People don’t get problems because of grains but because of overconsumption of a certain nutrient. That applies to any product. You should rather write about bad impact of synthetic, processed foods, junk and candies because the health disadvantages from them are much greater. It is wrong to make people feel guilty about eating bowl of pasta whereas 1 in 3 people of US are overweight from eating too much junk(not grains). Again, point on words – too much.
Wow, just wow… grains are unhealthy now. Hey, while you’re at it tell us how meats, vegetables, fruit, dairy and sugars are all unhealthy too! Ever heard of moderation? I guess we will all have to resort to just living off of the air we breathe. It amazes me how people come on to sites like these and lap up the pseudo-science without doing some kind of research first.
He has lots of research and does not at all state that meats, vegetables or fruit are unhealthy and supplies a valid diet to implement using those healthy foods..Oh and aboslutely sugar is unhealthy clearly you have done ZERO research and completely missed the point of this proposed diet (which is just that, a proposed diet for those who have an open mind to consider it) which totally considers moderation as its basis.
I have a question. I understand that grains are not part of a healthy diet and that we do not need to eat them. Do you believe that complex carbs are important though? Do you think it’s necessary to eat potatoes, rice, and quinoa in order to have a balanced diet?
So what I can never understand is:
– wine invented around 8000 years ago (all these numbers from wikipedia, so forgive if not 100% accurate)
– chocolate invented around 3500 years ago
– bread invented around 30,000 years ago
Yet according to this site, wine in moderation is OK, some good quality chocolate is OK but grains are bad. But we have had 4 times as long to get used to eating grains as wine, and about 10x as long as chocolate!
So if our food choices should be made on what homo sapiens ate in the distance past, shouldn’t we prefer (good quality) grains over chocs & wine??
I never see anything explaining why this is wrong.
Really, it comes down to how you feel after you eat. I feel better when I don’t eat grains. Period. I lose weight, I don’t crave sugar, I don’t bloat, fart, burp, I’m less depressed, I have less pain, I don’t get sick as often, etc.
Great article you got here and I like how you had all your sources for studies just so that we know this is true. I have really cut down on my grains though I do have a piece of ciabatta bread daily.
This article seems to be highly biased. I am a professional baker and have taken several nutrition classes and much of this does not mesh with what I have learned. Also, this article seems to have jumped on the ‘gluten is bad’ bandwagon. How about other grains? Are they bad too? Quinoa? Amaranth? Rice?Wheat and wheat relatives are the only targets here.
Firstly, insoluble fiber is good for you. It binds everything together so that going to the bathroom is easier. I used to have constipation problems as a kid and the medicine I was given was either fiber in pill format or something that drew water to my bowels. Insoluble fiber also does that job. As an adult most of my problems are gone now but I still eat a high fiber diet to prevent that. Grains are also not only the only source of insoluble fiber. Almost all other plants have some of this too. It is just cellulose from the cell walls of the plants that helps provide structure. The incidence of bowel cancer is on the rise because so many people eat processed food.
Secondly, grains are full of good nutrients – as long as they are whole grains. There is a reason that grains were the staff of life.
Thirdly, gluten is not a poison. Grains and all other edible plants have been selectively bred to taste better, be easier to digest and have greater yields. Gluten is simply a protein. One that is important for your diet if you eat little to no meat. Yes, people with Celiac or gluten allergy should avoid it, just like people who are allergic to soy should avoid it. That doesn’t automatically make it bad for everyone else.
Fourthly, no plant really wants to be digested! There are plants that require the outer husk of their seeds to be digested away before they can sprout, but this is a way to allow for greater distribution and/or to provide a rich environment for germination. However, they don’t want other parts to be eaten. This is why apples have cyanide in their leaves and seeds. Or why many wild relatives to cultivated plants are bitter tasting. We have bred plant toxins down to little or nothing over the millennia.
Fifthly, the roughly ten thousand years we have been eating large amounts of grains is plenty of time to evolve to digest them. Many herding cultures have evolved to be able to digest lactose in less time than that. If something is going to make it easier for us to exploit a food source, evolution WILL select for it. Cooking is a sort of predigestion. That is why we don’t have giant molars or huge fermentation vats in our guts. We didn’t need them to eat tough plant food.
Anyway, this is long winded. The problem with grains is people eat too many processed ones (processing is also like predigestion. That is why they are often higher in calories) and they eat too many along with too much fat and not enough exercise. Everything in moderation.
I just read an article twice as long about how grains are good for you in SO MANY WAYS. This article was from the Harvard school of public health. I’m thinking of trying a grain free diet just for the heck of it. I think where alot of people get confused is merita white bread versus some minimally processed whole wheat bread. Both are grains, but white bread has a much longer journey from harvest to consumption (aka the process). Too much of anything is bad so I think we are all safe if we just make conscious decisions about food. Unless you have celiac disease and gluten allergies
And so the new dietary big bad approaches! Honestly people, if you have followed up on the entire food/health obsession thats taken root over the past decades you would realize that all the food scientist dosen’t have a clue about whats good for you and whats not. What can be said though is that the western diet is not good for us – every people/country that adopts it gets sicker! My advice – eat fresh food, not all that processed garbage (fructose and glucose) and exercise a lot more then you do today – you know deep down that you should 🙂
I was hitting 200lbs (33 years old, 5’6″) and I decided that enough was enough. I didn’t just go on a diet, I changed my eating habits. I eliminated ALL wheat products from my diet, and only ate whole foods (no more “light”, “low-xyz”, etc.). And I lost 30lbs in 3 months! My skin rashes went away, my knee pain went away, my mood went from “so-so” to great, I slept great, I had as much energy as I did when I was a child (really), and sex was awesome again. About a year later I started eating wheat again (I don’t know why, I wasn’t even craving it) and gained 20lbs, and some of the problems came back right away. Wheat is bad, I know – and I am going back to eating right again, and this time I’m saying bye to that poison for good!
I just heard about this “grains are really bad for you” for the first time this week. And from a medical source. So this site is part of my research.
There I was, thinking that by increasing our intake of wholegrains and consuming less and less prepackaged foods, I was doing good for myself and my family!
“Healthy” bread, oats and pasta are currently an important part of our intake.
Finding it hard to take this in. A radical change necessary? Where do we start?
I’m lucky enough that I don’t suffer any side effects from eating grains. That said, I’m attempting to move towards a more high protein/fat diet and reduce the number of carbohydrates I consume period.
However, there’s one reason to eat grains you didn’t include in your arguments. They’re freaking delicious. I can cut granola and cereal and crackers and all that out and not really miss it, but you will only take my Sourdough bread out of my cold, dead hands. My general approach to life is “everything in moderation.” It may not be healthy to eat bread for three meals a day every day, but for most of us, it’s not going to kill us to indulge every once in awhile.
I am sure there was a lot of research done the author on the subject of grains but I wonder where the information or rather the source of it comes from? I know in the Biblical times especially in the Old Testament, people ate grains. There is a lot of mentioning about eating bread in the Bible. If it was good for me, why isn’t good for us?
Read the book Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight. Grains have evolved into a super-sized wheat which is super-sizing us! Great book. Explains how we get atherosclerosis, skin issues, hypothyroidism, etc. A quick read and very informative. I give it a thumbs up.
Why is it that every time someone adopts a diet that involves completely abstaining from eating a particular food (meat, dairy, grains, etc) those who adopt said diet feel the need to preach it and push it on the rest of us?
This happens *without fail*. “I don’t eat meat/grains/dairy, so neither should any of you!”
Eat what you want, dont eat what you don’t want to, but leave the rest of us alone, please and thank you.
I would suggest coconut flour or almond flour as being healthier than rice, quinoa or whole grains. Nut flours have more protein. Whole grains have more of the anti-nutrients than processed flour, so you won’t be absorbing certain nutrients. I heard in an interview by someone that research showed (sorry I can’t give the source more than it’s a free show you can listen to on blogtalkradio by underground wellness/Sean Croxton) eating quinoa produced a detergent (negative, possibly inflammatory) effect in the body. I’m just trying to share info that can help. If you feel you need to research it more for yourself, please do 🙂 And as someone else mentioned, if you feel bad after eating a certain food, don’t eat it, even if it’s supposed to be healthy. David Getoff gives this advice also. Everyone’s bodies are similar to a certain degree, but we also have differences unique to us, including which foods our bodies like or don’t like.
The PREVENTION is natural not chemical…
however, the TREATMENT after the fact is chemical…
Which side of the coin do you want in 10 years?
What we do against health now will catch up with us.
Not to be a party-pooper but as Rodney Dangerfield once remarked, “Even if I eat real healthy & take excellent care of myself, one day I’m going to get very sick and die.”
My point is if you are in good general health, (don’t have celiac or other food allergies) lean, athletic, good vital signs, blood pressure, etc (I am), what is the point of denying yourself simple pleasure like an occassional piece of toast, pizza, pasta, etc?
I found this site in my quest to solve a life-long insomnia problem. As a process of elimination I have eliminated all wheat, pasta and dairy.
Frankly, I dont feel any different and feel resentful that I can’t have the foods that satisfy me.
Again, I don’t get the point of these extreme dietary views…nobody is getting out of this alive…no matter how “healthy” you eat…
Yes ! As well as fantastic nutritious qualities Grains do have a protective reproductive shield that can be damaging to our human digestive systems. But the good news is that these damaging properties are greatly removed ( No longer needed ) once the growing propagation process has begun. The answer ? If you really must have grains then why not germinate them for 2-3 days. It may be better to eat a healthy living grain than …. a Dormant Toxic One .
Just a note. As to wondering why grains are on the food pyramid. Someone may have already said this, but the comments are so long it would take me a month to read thru them. Anyway, grains are on the Department of Agriculture Food Pyramid BECAUSE THE FARM LOBBY IS EXTREMELY POWERFUL IN THIS COUNTRY. If nobody ate grains, where would Iowa be?!?!?
I think that today (modern day) most people are also eating a lot more convenient foods…. The processed foods that were not available back in the caveman days….. The processed foods are so full of chemicals, maybe that is why we are in a health crisis….These chemicals causing cancer and all sorts of other health related issues. Dairy is bad for you because it is processed…. raw milk may be a little dangerous, but i hear it is better for you than milk u buy in a store…. We need o get rid of all this processed crap people are eating… maybe that is the reason we have intestinal problems, asthma, allergies, etc….
Your site wins the award: WARNING – Dietary information on this site could be harmful to your health and wellness!
Avoid grains in your diet? Good grief… Another site promulgating nutritional myths. Stamp out this growing and misleading myth !!
The examples you gave supporting not eating grains are as weak and misleading as the facts that you presented.
Consider, some grains offer excellent sources of antioxidants ( black n kidney beans) in addition to high fiber. Oh yeah, the recommended amount of daily fiber is over 35gr which a minority of people consume. Replacing meat and dairy products with grain products (not processes) will improve your health and wellness. The list of benefits of grains in ones diet was not properly outlined nor explained. Everyone, talk to a dietician or nutritionist and ignore quack websites that spread nutrition myths like this one!
Your comment is a real wealth of misinformation. Black and kidney beans are grains? News to me. Talk to a nutritionist? Seriously? They are still promoting the same bad advice they were promoting 75 years ago. If you want a load of real dietary quackery, talk to a traditional nutritionist.
Fact is, most if not all grains are now genetically modified to maximize profit but not health. They also directly contribute to weight gain if not burned off as energy by a WHOLE LOT of exercise. If you think that old, erroneous food pyramid (that promotes many servings of grains and dairy) is such a good idea, perhaps you can explain why so many people who adhere to traditional diets are fat and unhealthy.
I have been researching it a little bit now, and I think that the whole genetically modified reasoning is actually one of the better reasons not to eat the grains. It seems that when the problems started.
Oats! They’re so tasty & satisfying when cooked up just right. But they can cause explosive farting for so many hours afterwards that you can’t get any sleep, even if you ate them for breakfast. Of course it isn’t like this for everyone. Who knew?!
The three most genetically engineered crops are corn, soy, and wheat. Wheat is actually considered a poison and it has been genetically tampered with, according to the information on this weblink: naturalnews.com/037133_wheat_gluten_poison.html
Soy should be consumed only if fermented as in miso soup or Korean fermented bean paste soup/stew. Here’s information about why unfermented soy is bad for human health (Frankencorn is also mentioned here in which 100% of it is GMO): http://www.naturalnews.com/036736_GMOs_drought_corn.html
I will be giving a presentation at a health center about GMOs/GEOs and it will be packed with information, most of it substantiated by peer reviewed research/journals. A lot of the research is deliberately withheld or buried because it negatively affects the perception of powerful companies and groups that care about people only as commodities; and consequently the truth affects their profits.
I eat grains, breads, and cereals all the time everyday I would say >150grams per day.
I am very fit, I have no gastro issues, no significant health issues, and I feel great.
Based on your article heading “why grains are unhealthy” and your book as well, why should I stop eating carbohydrates?
I can understand some people cant metabolise them as well as others, but you are suggesting that EVERYONE should eliminate them.
I mean, you dislike that the national guidelines encourage everyone to eat grains, and now you are encouraging everyone to not eat them.
Why aren’t we informing people that some can tolerate grains/carbs and some people cannot, rather than still telling people misleading information?
The original diet is fruits, grains and nuts. That is how God designed it from the beginning. We shouldn’t even be eating meat. Fast food is making people fat and all the crap that they’re putting in our foods like msg, aspartame, high fructose corn syrup. All poison!
I love/hate your blog, and I am sure that you adore that reaction.
I personally find all of the above reasons moot points for me. I am 31 years of age with an 18.5 percent BMI. My bristol scale is terrific. I have an incredibly high water, raw food, fat, meat, and veggie intake. I drink two cups of black coffee daily (my choice) and eat a single serving of properly prepared grains of primarily the oat, and spelt varieties (also my choice). I feel AMAZING! I do not have headaches, chronic fatigue, or anything hinting that I struggle with grain consumption. The mass majority of my dairy is a cultured, raw kefir, and the only other beverage I drink other than water and coffee is my brewed kombucha. I have gone weeks without grain, and felt no difference or improvement. Can someone for the life of me tell me why I should believe that paleo is the way, the truth and the life.
I would seriously love other reasons.
I am just not buying it.
Now what I do agree with is that the public is primarily clueless how to care for their bodies, and for that reason I love ya! I really do!
i think you have to look at the 192 countries in the world how do they advertise food how do they accept it, its doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out the americans are on huge portions and the japanese are eating rice and fish and outlive everyone this seems down to diet i think brits jut need to re educate as people are stuck in there ways we need more smoothie bars in towns and cities not mcdonalds an cake shops this is down to government aswell
From what I’ve read about grains in the recent scientific literature, it seems that grains are really good for you, and form a big part of a healthy diet. I was wondering whether there were any peer-reviewed articles that anyone could point me to, to suggest that grains are actually unhealthy? I see that Mark has put across his personal testimony of how they affect him, but it seems that you’d need a heap of really good research to counter all the evidence based pro-grain literature that is currently floating around. Any further reading would be much appreciated (not blogs or opinions, just scientific, peer-reviewed articles please).
hi there mark — i was just wondering, having been reading a lot of your stuff and recently made a switch independently to 50% raw foods, what your stance is on the theory that it was our increased use of carbs as fuel that, by offering a faster energy source, directly contributed to the increased brain size and intelligence that we have now?
You need to deepen your research on humans of the Paleolithic age. They DID gather and consume grains and legumes. Not that I consider gluten to be good for me in particular, but it’s always good to understand the TRUTHFUL reasons to observe one’s dietary restrictions.
Good god. Most of the world eats grains, and as far as I can tell if eaten in moderation there’s no harm no foul. Every single one of my relatives who lived into their late 90’s eats – or ate – grains – gasp! As far as me – My 70-something parents, my brother and I eat predominately South Indian & Medteranean style food – fish, grains, beans, and lots of veg. We are all thin and healthy and none of us take any medications or have any health issues.
I am boggled by the USA’s approach to food, which treats it alternately as either medicine or threat. Food is food. Enjoy it, eat it with others, eat everything in moderation, and stop fretting about toxicities or imagined threats.
Now there are people with honest-to-god food allergies and intolerances. That’s different. Far be it from me to tell a celiac to eat wheat, for example. But most of this stuff for most of the population is just trendy nonsense.
I watched the documentary ‘Forks Over Knives’ on Netflix. I’m now a vegan because of it, and now you guys are telling me to not eat grains and beans. Where do you think I should get my proteins? I really do not want to eat meat because of the harmful health issues associated with it.
So I came across this article linked from another site. I have been doing CrossFit and Paleo for the past six months now. I am down 55 lbs and 5 pants sizes. And I feel good. But I am not convinced on the whole grains are evil thing. Vegans have almost the exact same argument about meat. (I like Paleo way better than Veganism by the way.) So I asked a buddy who is a R.D. about the whole phytic acid thing. He said that it is a real thing, but eating Vitamin C can counteract that by making the nutrients more bioavailable. I’d love to get your thoughts.
First the public is told that eating whole grains is good for them. Now the public is told that eating grains isn’t good for them. Who’s right? Who’s wrong? What do you believe?
I think the best way to find out if grains, or any food for that matter, is or isn’t right for your body is to work with a nutritionist who can tell you what to eat. Then again, if she says, “You need to eat animal protein,” and you’re a vegetarian, you’re back at square one.
Sigh.
Now I need to do some research of my own because I eat grains, albeit not every day, but I do eat them.
Years ago during the Atkins craze, I tried it and felt miserable. Now, my Naturopath put me on a no-grains diet (I’m a vegan now). And just like before I feel miserable, have no energy, and have actually gained 5 lbs. I think it’s possible that some people feel better without grains… but I feel like my body was made to eat them. So bring on the rice, quinoa, corn, and spelt please!
Laura, how long did you try the “no grains” diet? If it was less than 2-3 weeks, please look up “low carb flu” and try it again. Coming off a high grain/high carb diet can cause a lot of ill feelings, but once those go away, most people (like, 99.9%) feel great.
If you buy into this article, then you deserve the consequences. I’m not going to cite a bunch of sources to back my statement (that’s your job, and frankly, it’s your right to believe whatever you want), but this article, as a whole, is far from totally accurate. Whole quality grains are healthy and good for most people. They provide nutrition, energy, and fiber. And grains are not served as sticks and twigs as described in the article. This author has some key points, but don’t believe everything he says. He’s on a mission, and that mission is to say controversial things, get attention, and make money. Nothing wrong with that. We all need money. But just think for yourself and decide if full grain exclusion is sensible.
I refer vegans and vegetarians to this article anytime they say grains are healthy and that we need them in our diets. It irks me to no end… but I guess they don’t know what they don’t know. They don’t realize their baseline of wellness could increase significantly by switching to Paleo/Primal. I’ve never felt better in my life. It’s the best decision I ever made and only took me (nearly) 28 years of my life to get there.
Anyone have suggestions on how to ward off non-Paleo/Primal believers? I’ve had an impression on a number of individuals who are jumping into the Paleo world, but still have some who adamently oppose it.
I found interesting the topic of not-eating-grains. However, we believe, fermentation does break down much of gluten, so is quite safe to eat.
We are eating sourdough bread and my husband who had before always complains for digestion, feel just fine. Otherwise, my son is celiac, so I`m transforming his standard celiac-diet for a better one.
I looked at the wikipedia-site for grains and a few of them are in my regular diet. Lentils, quinoa and chickpeas. Do they fall in the category of unhealthy grains or can i continue to eat them?
As with all things, I’m sure much of it is done to create jobs & industry. Government makes people ill by promoting foods that mess with our body, we are then forced to pay big pharma to cure us. Natural diets can prevent & even cure disease, but it’s got to the point that no one can afford to eat natural. Going organic or gluten free etc costs much more these days than the pills big pharma will prescribe to treat certain conditions you may get from not being able to afford to eat healthy organic or gluten free! It’s shameful what humanity is allowed to do to their fellow human being purely for self gain.
We should argue on the internet about this. Nothing more productive than internet arguing. If you doubt the claims of the article – do your own research, try living this way for a month or two and see how you feel. I agree nobody should swallow every idea on the internet hook line and sinker but I question the intelligence of anybody that doesn’t apply the same scrutiny to any claim made by the media, the government or pharma/biotech.
Take your own health seriously – make up your own mind. All the papers and proof in the world wouldn’t change my mind about this lifestyle. I lived for nearly 10 years thinking I had Crohn’s disease because numerous GI doctors wouldn’t even entertain the idea that it could be gluten. When you go from filling a toilet bowl with blood to feeling 18 again because of lifestyle change like this you know better than to question the results.
I don’t press this lifestyle on anybody in my life, but when they ask how I went from a chronically ill 330 lb man to a picture of health 225lb man (I’m 6’5″) I tell the truth. To hell with them if they don’t listen.
Is it for everybody? Nope. Is it for me? yep. Is it for you? Find out for yourself.
I have been on this diet for 3 days now and I just realized that the argument for not eating grains is that they are seeds. Because seeds have protective mechanisms like pyruvate and etc, we should avoid them right?
Wouldn’t the same go for nuts like almonds, peas, walnuts and etc since they are still seeds of a plant??
Am I missing something? Someone help me out please
This is going to sound crazy to everyone, and I hope that some good ideas come forth. I feel so much better eating wheat than not. I have a severely impaired GI tract- motility is basically non-existent. Diagnoses are: gastroparesis, chronic intestinal pseudo-obstruction (CIP), colonic inertia, and anismus. Additionally, the anatomy of my stomach and small intestine has been drastically altered as a result of the disease process. I had my colon completely removed at the age of 21 (now 27). I went paleo and gluten free for years and experienced NO improvement of symptoms. Granted, my health problems will not and cannot be solved by diet, but by trial and error, I have discovered the “good” foods (the ones my system tolerates), and the “bad” foods (the ones that will level me for weeks). With any type of rice, I get a ton of bloating and gas, and it’s constipating like nobody’s business. Wheat causes me none of the above problems. In fact, my gut actually functions better when I eat it. I haven’t touched soy or dairy in over a decade (been sick A LONG time!). I was grain-free for over two years, and honestly never found it harder to have a BM. Literally, no stool would pass. Add a backed-up problem to a gut that is already very, very slow…let’s just say it’s a world of pain. I have had every celiac test under the sun- results are all negative; every scope is abnormal as a result of the disease process. Tested negative for every autoimmune condition under the sun. My diet is mainly lean proteins (chicken, turkey; can only handle red meat on occasion- usually bison) and certain fruits and vegetables; one serving of grain (again, wheat settles the best- weird, I know). I’m not asking anyone to try to solve my extensive GI pathology (this is a progressive condition), just looking for ideas as to why my gut functions and feels so much better on wheat. It’s not a temporary “high”, like what can occur when you crave the foods you’re allergic to. My elimination diets have been conducted systematically and over a period of years.
Ok. I understand the idea’s presented, but people have been eating grains for a very long time. If they were so toxic wouldn’t we have died off by now? Also grain are not the only foods that contain toxins. All you have to do is eat the wrong fish once and your dead. The problem with diabeties is the fact that we add sugers to grains, Instead of simply taking out the toxins threw cooking and mealing. To me there is no real reason to not eat grains. Yes the FDA has there priorities in the wrong places. Yes Americans consume way to many carbs mostly from bread. But there is no place to say you should not eat grains. Beans and rice is the only reason why most of the world servives, and the rice plays an equal part to the beans. P.S. Some beans (legumes) are also toxic if not cooked.
Interesting and entertaining article, however, regarding your comment on dairy… some of us may be able to “tolerate” it, but no human on the planet has the enzymes necessary to break down casein so we are unable to fully digest it and it has even more dire consequences than the dreaded grain has. If you have not already read it you may find T. Colin Campbell’s work “The China Study” informative. This esteemed research scientist spent 40 years researching the subject.
In any case, a predominantly plant based diet is the way to go. That, however, does not necessarily include grains, of course.
don’t believe everything you read on the internet, just listen to your body. There is no one size fits all diet plan. Grains are very nutritious, filling and full of vitamins and minerals. They have to be whole grains not refined or processed. Brown rice, steel cut oats, quinoa, buckwheat, amaranth, millet, etc are excellent. My digestion is so much better and energy level improved when I eat whole grains. Never let anyone tell you what’s good for you and what’s not. Do your own research, work with your diet and settle in on what works best for you, not for them.
I think the “You need the vitamins and minerals!” section is really the only one you need to dispel the notion that grains are essential for a healthy diet. Any nutritional benefit provided by grains can be gotten from other, healthier sources. You want fiber? Eat whole fruits and vegetables. Anti-oxidants? Eat whole fruits and vegetables. Vitamins? Eat whole fruits and vegetables. Replace most or all of your grains with fruits and vegetables, and you will be a healthier person. It’s that simple.
Dear Mark, following your reply to its logical end, you would not be consuming anything but a few of the most nutrient-dense foods. For example, why would you consume grass-fed beef (the lean muscle meat) when you could get orders of magnitude more nutrition from the liver. You would just consume the liver, every meal, day after day. But we don’t do this (even though it is possible in this time with the great availability of foods) because you would miss out on variety, a very important component of successful diets. This link you might find interesting (it is written especially for your comment): http://www.arthurhaines.com/10-July-2013.html . Best wishes in health.
This is ludicrous. As a professional in the field of eating disorders, it is garbage like this that confuses the clients I treat and fuels their distorted thoughts. I will never believe that plants that grow from the earth, and that taste to delicious are bad for everyone. This is complete BS.
I am actually here because of my ED (EDNOS) which means, “Eating Disorder Not Specified” for those who didn’t know.
I’m not sure to stay away from grains or just have them in moderation. Thankfully I am getting help with my disordered way of eating, and how I feel and think about food….
Mark – Thanks for the incredibly insightful post. Your views are certainly respected by the community which is why I was surprised to see some weak arguments chipping away at the credibility of this otherwise enlightening post. For instance, your gluten argument does hold a lot of weight in the scientific community but your fiber argument is alarmingly weak. You’ve discounted the conclusions of the one scientific study you referenced because you didn’t like how they described fiber’s interaction with cells in the GI. Then, to support your point of view, you reference Konstantin Monastyrsky, who is neither a scientist nor a doctor. Finally, you end your whole argument by saying “there’s plenty of fiber in the vegetables and fruit I eat” which implies that fiber is necessary and completely discounts that whole argument.
Your articles are very valued in the health and nutrition community but I would encourage readers to investigate further and get numerous perspectives. This goes for all blogs including yours and mine.
Finally, thanks for generating this great dialogue among your readers. I can feel everybody becoming smarter about what they eat!
Though I do feel it is important to “rebel” (for lack of a better word) against many USDA suggested foods, this is (in my opinion) another case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Modern grains (particularly wheat) have some real health detriments, especially when eaten as a staple. However, there are wild grains with very different qualities and have been used as staples by indigenous people (without creating health problems).
A given scientific study may show that fiber is bad. But note that wild plant foods (non-cultivated foods that were eaten by paleo hominids) were much higher in fiber than todays engineered foods. Virtually all the produce in the supermarket has been genetically modified (through breeding) to create foods that have more calories and less nutrition per unit mass than their wild progenitors. If fiber is truly bad for us, this would speak poorly of plants actually eaten by wild hominids.
Toxic antinutrients (such as phytic acid) are also present in nuts and other foods recommended by many paleo authors. The presence of antinutrients does not, in and of itself, demonstrate a food should not be consumed. Phytic acid can be dealt with through soaking, sprouting, and (most effectively) fermenting. Using this as an excuse to avoid grains (or nuts or various seed-like fruits including quinoa and amaranth) isn’t providing the entire picture. We are humans and we use our knowledge and resourcefulness to acquire and process foods to make them more nutritious (in this case, eliminate compounds that detract from the nutrition of harvested foods).
A wild grain that is an important staple in my house in northern wild rice (Zizania palustris), harvested using traditional methods from water courses in Maine. This grain has no gluten (like some other traditional grains). This wild plant was a staple of indigenous people of the Great Lakes region. Note that these people could produce well-formed bodies (broad faces with all teeth–including wisdom teeth–emerging straight and uncrowded). People who consume wheat as a staple are not able to derive the nutrition they need, as evidenced by the fact they can’t build proper form (all indigenous people around the world who consumed wild foods, in some cases including non-cultivated grains, were able to build broader faces than we can on our supermarket diets).
It is important (I feel) to not generalize too much. The Paleo Diet is a poor representation of what paleo hominids ate, because (for example) the vast majority of the plant foods heavily relied upon didn’t exist. If anyone eats an actual wild diet (one that more closely mimics the plant foods eaten in paleolithic times) you will rely on large variety of plant foods and that may include wild grains. The nutritional profile of wild rice is impressive (for a grain), as it exceeds wheat in many vitamins and minerals and has a much better omega 6 to omega 3 fatty acid profile (fully 30% of its fats are ALA). The fact that wheat is a poor choice for a staple doesn’t mean (in my opinion) that all grains should be avoided. Grains were consumed by paleo hominids and more modern-day indigenous people without creating the issues we see in those that rely on wheat as staple. Context is critical. Thanks for your writing, it is a pleasure to read.
Mark – Thanks for the incredibly insightful post. Your views are certainly respected by the community which is why I was surprised to see some weak arguments chipping away at the credibility of this otherwise enlightening post. For instance, your gluten argument does hold a lot of weight in the scientific community but your fiber argument is alarmingly weak. You’ve discounted the conclusions of the one scientific study you referenced because you didn’t like how they described fiber’s interaction with cells in the GI. Then, to support your point of view, you reference Konstantin Monastyrsky, who is neither a scientist nor a doctor. Finally, you end your whole argument by saying “there’s plenty of fiber in the vegetables and fruit I eat” which implies that fiber is necessary and completely discounts that whole argument.
Your articles are very valued in the health and nutrition community but I would encourage readers to investigate further and get numerous perspectives. This goes for all blogs including yours and mine.
Finally, thanks for generating this great dialogue among your readers. I can feel everybody becoming smarter about what they eat!
This is the same wheat found in the tombs of Egyptian Pharaohs,
and it’s very different from today’s wheat.
I was told that the reason wheat was so bad was ‘because it had
been genetically modified so many times’ – well this stuff has probably
never been modified ..
And it’s organic ..
Also, isn’t Black Rice a grain? Sounds like this one may be healthier
than blueberries?
I tend to wonder if grains are that bad, or if we are just eating the
wrong ones (like Monsanto’s gm wheat)?
hablo por mi experiencia,,sufro de la tiroides e intestinos desde hace dos años,,,he sufrido mucho,,y todo esto debido al cambio de alimentacion,,,,empece a comer mucha soya, granos etc y luego mucho estres,, y empezaron las taquicardias,,,,,he estado casi a morir,,,hozpitalizada,,,,muy mal….. he dejado de comer granos y guten,,,,eso me ayuda mucho,, tampoco como carne roja,,,solo pollo y pescado,,,verduras, nueces, futas,etc—— soy cristiana adventista,,,y creo en el vegetarianismo,,mas no creo en los granos,,,,creo en Dios y no en el mono,,,,pero de que el gluten es dañino,,,lo es!!!
Well, I can’t seem to search the commends, so hopefully this hasn’t been posted already.
Anyway archeologists now claim that our distant ancestors, the one’s the palio diet is supposed to emulate, actually ate grass and whatever else they found on the African savannah. And that means grains, because grains are seeds.
Though I don’t doubt the science of why grains may be bad, especially in the large quantities of the modern diet. But one of the tenets of Palio is that our ancestors didn’t eat such things. Well, as it turns out, science shows that this could be more assumption than fact.
“Why do Paleo and Atkins-style diets (i.e. low-carbohydrates) cause constipation?”
Ironically, this title along with an explanation, appears in the referenced
Fiber Menace by Konstantin Monastyrsky. Perhaps Mark (or whoever the proofreader was) Didn’t think anyone would actually follow up on the “supporting evidence”.
There is no bonafied, double blind test with significant numbers of participants over a significant span of time that proves or even suggests that a Paleo diet is better. Excuse me for wanting factual supporting evidence for amazing claims (which happen to create a fair amount of income for the ones making the claims).
I love the eat whole foods method here but should ALL breads and grains be eliminated? What about cultures who eat grains all of the time(like Asians) who are some of the most healthiest people on the planet? Other cultures seem to know the key to moderation better than Westerners do. How ever I will definitely be REDUCING my intake of carbs in the form of pastas and grains.
Your evidence from Dr. Paul L. McNeil, a cell biologist at the Medical College of Georgia regarding high fiber foods banging up against the cell lining, is actually an incorrect reference for your argument as the article actually states:
“When you eat high-fiber foods, they bang up against the cells lining the gastrointestinal tract, rupturing their outer covering. What we are saying is this banging and tearing increases the level of lubricating mucus. It’s a good thing.”
Dr. McNeil discovered that frequent cell injury and cell repair occurs when we eat. Dr. Paul L. McNeil then goes on to say, “It’s a bit of a paradox, but what we are saying is an injury at the cell level can promote health of the GI tract as a whole.”
I would be wary of the rest of this person’s “research” also. It is obvious it isn’t very well done.
I have fatigue due to nodules in the thyroid and really low levels of DHEA and progesterone. Im 38. I am intolerant to wheat and cow’s milk, yeasts, malt, etc.
Would you recommend a vegan diet? I have tried in the past but was not good.
Enjoyed your writing on grains. Incidently I recently read the book Fiber Menace, which led me back to proper food combining (as in “Fit for Life”). I quit the ‘mega-fiber’ and I’m better for it. These days I hardly ever eat grains. I agree that fruits and vegetables likely have enough fiber – and how natural is it anyway to be OD’ing on grain fiber and destroying one’s mucosa (shudder)…
We’ve always eaten inconvenient foods like grains. The paleo world never talks about acorns. They were the premiere paleo food — literally the entire temperate world ate them as the bulk of their diet for thousands of years, but we certainly don’t have the ability to digest them. They need to be prepared by us to be nourishing, and then they are superb food. If we could deal with preparing our acorns properly, then we can deal with our grains, too. soak, sprout, ect. I do think that acorns are a lot better food than grain, though.
I feel so IRRITABLE when I eat grains!! I also feel “off” and less coordinated and agile. If you suffer from anger or irritability, try resisting grains and you may see a difference. Ditto if you wanna be at the top of your game physically.
I eat grains (gluten free ones due to intolerance) but I know without delusion, they’re a less optimal way of getting complex carbs than a sweet potato or even (gasp) white potato. They’re also a less optimal way of getting other essential nutrients than getting them from vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, fat and grass fed meat. There aren’t any nutrients in grains that you can’t get from foods closer to the source and easier to digest. Also, most processed grain cereal products have to be fortified with vitamins, presumably to make up for the empty calorie consumption which presumably leaves less room for eating foods naturally high in vitamins and minerals.
But, grains are available, socially acceptable and relatively cheap. When I see unhealthy people try and “get healthier”, I have nothing but encouragement for them even when they opt for more wholegrains. This is because as their journey progresses, I usually see them gradually and naturally/ unknowingly increasing their intake of vegetables and effectively crowding out the need for excess grains.
I once flew (Flight for Life – EMS) a 14 year old female to a Pediatric ICU with an exacerbation of a gluten allergy after eating pork from her family’s ranch. The receiving ICU doctor stated that the consumption of grain fed pork led to her acute illness.
Question: Where is grass fed chicken sold?
I have seen grass fed beef in the market, however, I have never seen grass fed chicken.
I believe fibers from whole grains are good but you need to eat whole grain in moderation. The My Plate Method (which happens to replace to old food pyramid) tells just that. Too much whole grain is also not that beneficial because the carbs from grains will only be converted in fat and nothing else. And if you are trying to lose some weight, this is going to be a bad news for you.
It’s really great how you’ve taken all the normal reasons that people have for eating a lot of grain and debunked the rumors. Grain can be good in certain quantities but it’s not absolutely necessary. This was very interesting to me and I’m definitely glad I read it.
What about those of us who run 50+ miles per week with another 5-6 hours of weight training on top of that? ??!! How on earth do I eat 3200 calories per day of salad? 😉
i appreciate your concerns about grains but we all need grains for health. The prayer “Give us this day our daily bread” (Matt 6.11) still rings true even in our day.
How important are grains?
Grains make up the most abundant foodstuffs in the world, and for many populations they truly represent “the stuff of life”. What an array in variety they present: barley, wheat, oats, rye, buckwheat, corn, rice, millet! Unfortunately, many areas of the earth feed the bulk of their grain to the livestock and eat their nutrients secondhand – in meat products.
Grains
Are you being robbed of the best part of the grain?
When you choose a variety of cereals and breads mainly in the unrefined form, you have available so much more nutrition than is present in the refined and “enriched” kind. We commonly think that milling removes only a few vitamins and minerals but does not affect the rest of the kernel, and that the enrichment program that is now mandatory throughout the United States makes up for these losses. It is estimated that more than 20 nutrients are removed in milling, and enrichment restores four of these nutrients. The four that are restored are three of the vitamins of the B complex -thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, and the mineral iron. since the enrichment program has been in effect, several deficiency diseases of the B vitamins have largely disappeared.
Some of the best-quality protein, as well as other nutrients, including plant oils, is found in the germ and bran that often go into livestock feed. (Isn’t it strange that animals are often better fed than we are?) Since whole-grain cereals and bread provide moderates amounts of protein, excellent sources of B vitamins, and some of the vital minerals, they should be amply represented in a well-chosen diet.
Start your day off with good cereals
From what I read about lectins, they do not seem nearly as bad as you deem them to be, on the contrary, they seem to be beneficial. From the regulation of cell adhesion, to targeting certain proteins and delivering them to lysosomes. Also, on the point of Phytic Acid, I’m reading currently that yes, it does deem certain minerals unabsorbable, but not infinitely, only a percentage of these minerals will not be absorbed (not saying that it’s a small or large percentage, or this makes grains worthwhile, just that it is not ultimately bad/dumb to eat grain.)
“Lectins are bad.” FYI, not all of them are! Lectins are a carbohydrate binding protein, but not all lectins are the same. There are many forms of this protein depending on the source. Some have adverse side effects in the gut, others do not. Veggies and grains both contain lectins.
“..Studies on the effects of lectins on the gut have revealed that oral administration of low doses of lectins can have many beneficial effects on the digestive/absorptive efficiency of the gut, its immune system and bacterial ecology and that, by modulating the secretion of gut hormones, some lectins can influence the body’s endocrine system with beneficial consequences for general metabolism.”
Source: Pusztai, A. (1993) Eur. J. Clin. Nutr. 47, 691-699
As a scientist, I am sick of reading paleo blogs about antinutrients and how they are harmful when those people writing them do not understand the underlying mechanisms of proteins and their effects on the body.
Just because Mark says “Lectins are bad” does not mean that they are! Do your research and think critically about what you read.
Maybe I’ll start a paleo blog, one based on actual scientific research that has been done AND is cited.
I think the ancient ,wiser peoples generally got around the potential problems of grains by realising that ‘instant’ was a pipe dream …they thrived on the ‘staff of life’ by well fermenting/predigesting or by sprouting them.
Oh yes, obviously the cornerstone of human society, who’s advance and development allowed the formation of civilization itself is “unhealthy”. How long do you think planet could support the human population without the staple of it’s diet?
Why eat grains? We are lucky enough to live in a standard of living that allows us to eat meat and select vegetables. Grains feed the masses, imagine Asia without rice or the west without wheat. We wouldn’t have the over population problem we have now as we’d still all be Grok, although most of us would never have been born.
The paleo diet is healthy but it also expensive and unsustainable in the world sense. Grains are the reason we exist now, we are the lucky few who don’t have to eat grains to survive anymore, most people on earth don’t get this choice.
Mark, I agree with the argument against eating grains and limit my grain consumption as much as possible, but how can you be against fiber to support your reasoning?
What about vegetables and nuts? They contain fiber, and they are obviously good for you.
I have been enjoying your website for a few months now. I found it through google after a lady sitting next to me on a long flight challenged me to look into the science behind wheat (I am a scientist, and she wasn’t getting far with me by arguing anecdotally).
I accepted her challenge and started reading articles here and elsewhere (wheatbelly came up quite a bit as well as your site). The evidence confirmed my lifetime of personal data. For example, when back in the day I would prepare (refined wheat) pasta with clam sauce. I would stuff myself and yet be ravenous an hour or two later. Why?
Now a grilled or broiled salmon fillet with a huge side of steamed broccoli keeps me filled for hours, hmm… why? Well of course you explain why in detailed article after article, filled with the latest research findings. You obviously do your homework! I have a Ph.D. physics, so I can often recognize lazy thinking when I see it. Yours is not. Keep up the excellent website, please!
believe it or not, I came up with a similar nutritional theory on (of) my own before I ever heard of a “paleo” diet.
I am not interested in anything “paleo”, or vegetarian or vegan, or atkins or anything that gives a single name to all the things we put in our mouths, but if there is anything that comes close to my views it is the “paleo”.
My progression was as follows: I first concluded that stories about bad “saturated fats” and “bad” cholesterol were bullshit.. I read a bunch of studies on these things from people who generally have no clue what they are talking about (epidemiologists, medics, “nutritionists” etc.) and get their info from the latest fda/cdc bulletin. Saturated fats burn clean, and why would we store body fat for “consumption” if they were so unhealthy? Half of your brain consists of cholesterol. Your cell walls are fat.. Eskimos eat incredible amounts of fat and have no heart disease..
I than concluded that it is utter bollocks that you should have I do not know how many meals per day.. I eat twice a day and I am fine.. I mean, you can not possibly think that we have to digest ALL the time?
I concluded that normal food is severely lacking in protein and fat.. one should eat more meat and eggs.. that is also “bad” according to the “theory”. How can it be bad? Fat and protein is what your body consists of for the most part.. (minus water), and fat is just so tasty..
btw. fats and proteins also elicit an insulin response, and so does the gut.. even more so than sugar..
You need some sugar in your diet, especially if you are training.. Personally, never had problems with milk, it is good for me.. I mean, if it is good for the babies.. cheese and butter too.
But the biggest revelation was how long I could go on for on a plate of beans and sausage, bacon and onions (with bread), eggs and bacon, fat cheese and similar foods without getting tired..
So I ll eat a steak whenever I can get some, eggs, and anything fatty and unhealthy like cheese and I feel GREAT.. and will not be hungry the whole day..
I guess there is no need to discuss fruit and veggies, everyone agrees those are good for you.. although I wouldnt over do the veggies you have to cook..
Although I have no problem wit pasta, bread or corn, I concluded that these can not have been our natural diet from an evolutionary standpoint cause they are a pain in the ass to prepare.. I mean really, there is some serious technological advancement in making those edible (ok, you can eat corn if you cook it). I still eat them, although not much.. I figure, if I am going through the trouble of eating in the first place, I might just eat something more substantial than that..
What else.. yeah, never experienced gluten or lactose intolerance (or heard of them until recently, or know anyone with it), and I guess it is just one of those health epidemics endemic to the USA. I also have never seen anyone “US fat” in Europe (unless american tourists)..
Seriously, there is something wrong with you guys over there, and I highly doubt it is down to “gluten”, “phytic acid”, or lectins..
My dad and uncles, and their friends were eating a typical village diet (milk, cheese, butter, eggs meat/ham/bacon/lard, veggies, some fruit, bread) for the most of their life and they were STRONG in a way most power lifters strive to be, without ever having done “strength training” (so I guess there is something to be said about volume) or “recovering” properly.
Italians that eat a lot of pasta do not look like Americans.. they look fine..
Point being, you are just eating too many chemicals and GMOs in your diet..
I just want to put another perspective in this thread. I love grains. When I eat them, I enjoy eating them. And I feel good from my food. I am in good health and always have been, no allergies, no digestive issues, good energy, slim and fit – middle aged but lookin good.
so I feel quite comfortable avoiding any diets that focus on cutting out entire food groups. I also can;t quite get with the way that foods are carved into these generic niches – like “fats ” “proteins’ and “carbs” like the should be considered entirely separately. It seems like food combining, and the way that one thing interacts with another, holistically, got left off the menu.
When I look for foods to eat, first I want what is minimally processed, non gmo, preferably organic and fresh and local as I can find. I don’t eat junk food, I don’t eat out too much, I don’t eat anything that has been made low fat, I don’t have a sweet tooth. I didn;t eat sweets much as a kid (strict parents lol) and grew up mostly eating vegetables and organic foods I think that helped a lot. Instead of focus on eliminating ingredients, I focus on what it is I do want to eat – which is a variety of delicious ingredients
I do eat meat, fish, dairy, lots of vegetables, legumes, fruits, seeds, nuts, grains, and some fermented items. I like a balance, and eat a mix of cooked and raw preparation choices. I like a variety in my food. As far as grains go, I don’t eat grains based meals every day but i do eat them as ingredients here and there, I may use some barley, or oats, teff, or once in a while wild rice. sometimes chick pea flour (a legume). I eat quinoa (a seed). I like kasha once in a while. And sometimes I eat a bowl of pasta! Yes, made with wheat. I know it’s been processed, but…Yum! Enjoying your food is pretty important – for happiness and for digestion.
I think our bodies were designed to eat many different types of food from various sources – including hunting sources and including foraging sources – so including meats, eggs, fishes, grains, seeds, nuts, sprouts, pollens, roots, and fruits, etc.
I do try to back up my choices with studies and reading information and other people’s experience – but mainly I trust what is right for me to eat from listening to my own body. And my foods may change too, as I age, I will have to see.
I think the anti grain thing is really blown out of proportion, sorry. People overdo it with one item. Look at a standard american diet – it doesn’t include the food group grains! It includes an overabundance of mainly corn and wheat (not to mention these are the most altered genetically and over processed and full of pesticides) – pretty much eating wheat every day, sometimes three times a day. That is not a balance! That is taking one or two limited ingredients and over consuming them. No wonder people get sick, gluten intolerance etc, they just overdosed their bodies for years on the same thing. That is like starving while overeating.
And corn is put in just about everything you can think of in the form of an additive, from some yogurts to tofu to cheese to iodized salt to vitamin pills to ‘natural flavors”. It might even be in a gas used to ripen vegetables for the store shelf. So we overeat these things until our bodies develop a sensitivity to it, and then blame the entire food group. Yay!
I don;t know why people imagine that our ancestors didn’t crush up seeds and grains to eat. I bet we also chewed on bark and branches and the tender shoots of grasses, as well as dug up quite a lot of tubers and legumes. I think we shook the wild wheat into our skirts and put it in a stew with berries and roots and animal bones.
Also, not everyone is intolerant to the same ingredients – Some people can tolerate more meat than others too. Some people can do fine on a vegetarian diet and others do not.
Limit things? Sure, But exclude all those beautiful ingredients from my cooking repertoire entirely? Sorry, not for me. I’ve never found that carbs in my diet posed a problem for me at all.
However, if you said it was best to avoid extra processing on the food or go as minimally processed as possible, I would agree entirely….
You sound like me a month ago, before trying the primal diet. 😛 Yes I was an absolute bread aficionado, someone who goes to artisan french bakeries and pays over $10 for a pound of fresh, warm bread.
I cannot argue with the cultural and gastronomial significance of bread. It’s a sacrifice, definitely, especially if one has been eating GOOD bread (99.5% percent of bread consumed in western societies is pretty dismal.)
That said, after giving it thought, as a little kid, I’ve never liked pastries and breads too much. In fact, what I was always enthusiastic about was what we can call paleo food.
And after a week of going without any grain, I find I don’t miss them at all. I don’t get a craving of “man I’d totally eat a baguette right now”. In fact, the thought of most pastries is just unappetizing to me.
So what I can recommend is before jumping to conclusions, try the grainfree diet for a month, and re-evaluate your standpoint after.
In reality, grains have only one, single thing going in their favor. They are cheap. Super cheap. It’s cheap to grow them, cheap to store them, cheap to transport them. They don’t need cooled warehouses, cooled or even closed trucks. You just pour them in a pile and put a roof above, storage has been taken care of.
That’s the alpha and omega of why we as a race are so obsessed about them. 🙂
Well I feel DUMB! It took a super cool comic with a link to lead me here, and now I feel like a total moron for not researching this SOONER.
I mean, the only reason I picked whole grain for my sandwiches recently was because EVERYONE was saying how healthy it is, and blah blah blah. Thought I’d give it a shot.
Never felt more horrible in my life, now that I think real hard about it. I was such a happy person before EVIL GRAINS!!!! Nothing but protein, veggies, nuts, and the occasional indulgence in the wrong type of food (chips, candy, soda, etc).
I want to rub it in my boyfriend’s face! Always griping about his weight and mood. He eats grains as much as I consume protein, and I consider myself (half jokingly) a carnivore!
Excuse me while I bake some fish and pull out the salad I bought just the other day. I’m going to celebrate with more meat and leafy goodness!!! 😀
Let me first say my diet since the late 70’s has been similar to what is explained in these articles, but I do eat grains and very little meat, especially red meat. What I mean by little is I do not consume meat daily and when I do it is usually fish, although I do eat other meats on occasion and when it’s read meat I prefer wild or bison and not fattened cattle most people eat. Wild meat is what primal man ate and is a much healthier meat.
You have to understand, primal man before the onset of hunting tools was a persistent hunter (ran for days running down prey, much like a wolf pack) and like wolfs he did not eat everyday not meat everyday. Only when they caught prey, which may take days and even weeks or they would scavenge dead prey from other predators if they found it. Point is meat was not a daily or even a weekly part of their diet.
About grains being bad for you because they are a seed and not to be consumed or digested. These articles recommend eating Nuts. Guess what, Nuts are seeds. You can’t denounce one item for being a seed and not the other.
Can you please explain to me how this diet is going to be sustainable for the growing and modernizing population on our planet? How many animals need to die for each person to eat each week? Given how long it takes to raise animals, how is this at all sustainable? Would it become a free-for-all on anything still living in the wild? If we all eat more eggs, how many more male chicks need to die as a result of that? We are not a small group chasing mammoths any more! As a yoga teacher, I aim to lighten my footprint by only occasionally eating ethically raised meat from adult animals. How can a person lightly ethically justify consuming animal foods as a sole source of their protein rather than a traditional vegan diet, with just an occasional consumption of meat?
Because a traditional ‘vegan’ diet makes me feel weak, sick, and brain dead. Gluten makes me very sick, I have an intolerance to large quantities of fructose, and also have trouble with legumes. Reverting to a primal diet of foods that could be hunted or gathered has restored my health and brought my vitality back. If more people grew their own vegetables and raised their own livestock, it would be far more sustainable. The world cannot continue to sustain the booming human population, whether a few people choose to live primally or not. I would much rather ‘live long and prosper’ than to exist miserably on a vegan diet.
Thank you Danielle, I agree with you completely. I’m a reformed vegetarian that came close to be being diabetic from that wonderful diet. There are a lot of people out there proselytizing about vegan or vegetarian diets and most of them aren’t old enough to have proven the point. I don’t believe that they will survive the diet for 20, 30 or 40 years. I personally know a vegan who after 30 years on the diet is now paleo after recovering from cancer and then being plagued with other numerous health problems. She was an “ethical” vegan who has decided it is better to sacrifice a cow or chicken once in a while and live to tell about it. Besides the argument continues to rage on both sides about whether raising animals “the correct way”, or destroying pasture lands to grow produce is worse for the environment. Animals raised the correct way fertilize the earth naturally. The majority of produce is grown in a manor that will defoliate and destroy the earth. The vegans think they know the answers but they refuse to listen to the other side of the story.
Hello! I have a question! I am researching all of this paleo stuff and I have a question. I have seen that coconut is highly recommended, but it has a higher % of Phylates than wheat flour. Can you help me understand why, then, phylates would make wheat flour bad?
Grains are a part of our modern agricultural heritage to keep a larger than normal population of humanity fed. Unfortunately, the cost to our health is insidious. Our nearest genetic relatives do not live on grain. They live on fruit, vegetation, and small animal protein. We were never intended to live on grains.
You’re crazy. Unless you’re intolerant, grains are fine. Rather than finding phobias where they don’t exist and creating completely antisocial dietary restrictions, focus your energy on meditation or your passions- or developing friendships or your career.
I have been on the paleo diet for a month and have actually gained weight and my digestion has not improved. I always feel hungry too. I think I am eating too many fats. Thoughts?
Hi maryellen. If you have liver or thyroid issues, you would want to eat lower amounts of protein and fat, according to Dr. Berg (he offers lots of great info on youtube as well as his own website).
When I followed Mark’s suggestion of removing grains and keeping sugars/carbs at a level to lose weight, I did see results as well as my skin cleared up. But some people need to tweak, because we’re not all exactly the same 🙂 So I hope you check out Dr. Berg’s vids, he also suggests natural things like diet and supplements.
This vid specifically comes to mind to address your question, just go to youtube and copy/paste or type it in –
I’m trying to keep an open mind and research grains. While the author makes some good points, what in the world does “income inequality” have to do with this? I smell an agenda, which makes the entire article suspect.
Thank you for this information. I think there is a lot of truth in what you write. BUT, there is something which always stops me from following ANY fanatical looking advice:) Now I knooow I’m European and will never get used to the American way of uh..’bam! wam!’ speaking. Maybe that’s where the fanatic note comes from, just a cultural difference. That aside, humans have lived long without grains and that was fine, but it is only after we started cultivating them that human population started to bloom. Now, I’m not saying that quantity is better then quality but it does say something about those ‘demonic’ grains;) Also I don’t believe that any diet based on ONE point of view is good for anyone, the more different things we conquor (foodwise!) the better it is for our existance, and our adaptation for the future…I even think that a completely ‘virgin’ body is not going to do well in a world like ours. Ofcoourse eating as healthy as possible is a great way to go, but a body is perfectly capable in dealing with the ocasional loaf of bread, even more then one daily. Alllll over the world, even for the most of primal cultures bread is a part of daily food, let me not even start about rice! Many generations of healthy individuals have been raised on that stuff and went on to have a great life. It’s about balance and variety.
Food should also be fun, like life. Not too serious, when you know you then can make choices and play with all kinds of food and ideas. Noone has eternal life and even the healthiest of people sometimes get snatched from this world early.
It’s all in mindfulness when it comes to nutrition and knowledge about how to prepare it. Our ancestors have learned long ago how to prepare all kind of foods so that toxicity (almost ALL food has some level of toxicity) doesn’t get too much free play…we lost the knowledge, but even then we continue to thrive in numbers. I guess what I really want to say is lighten up, baguette is really not the evil in the world. Like the brilliant comedian Steve Hughes said about saaaay secondary smoke:’ there are people from Chernobyl still alive for f* sake! ‘ They look weird but they’re still here!,’;)
I’m just addressing one point of what you said about “a body is perfectly capable in dealing with the ocasional loaf of bread”. If someone gets migraine headaches from eating grain, they can NOT eat an occasional loaf of bread and deal with it except with a high amount of pain. This is just one example of a testimony I’ve seen for people suffering with migraines.
I can’t recall the person’s name, but he has researched gluten very thoroughly and makes the claim that not even one person can digest it, so not even one person should be eating it. For EVERY person who eats it, whether they notice any symptoms or not, it coats the surface of the intestines preventing nutrient absorption, as well as causing inflammation for up to 3 months.
If you choose to eat grains, that’s your choice. The information should be available to everyone, so they know grains can and usually do cause health problems. In conventional medicine, it’s called informed consent. You know what bad things can happen, but you decide to go ahead with it.
Sorry, I will address another comment you made. You said, “Food should also be fun”. The sole, true purpose of food is to nourish and allow the body to grow and repair itself. People can get creative and still eat healthy, tasty real food. But they need to understand that so much of what is considered food, is not.
I’ve stayed away from gluten for a year and a half now. Several weeks ago, my thyroid doctor had to lower my medication dosage because he says my body is better metabolizing it since I’m off gluten. Yeah! Besides that, no more stomach issues or other skin related problems. Great article.
Great post and thread! Mark Sisson really knows his stuff, and when he sais jump I will ask how high! For a 60 year old man, he is super fit and I agree with his lifestyle choices for nutrition and fitness!
Before following this lifestyle I was a cyclist and ate plenty of “healthy” grains! Ezekial bread, whole wheat pasta, kashi cereal etc…..
I had plenty of energy but my even though at 44 years old I was lean (5’9″ 150 lbs) at the time I still had a little bit of fat around the waste, there was no getting rid of it.
Jump to now, abs a plenty….I do ab exercise only once a week, I really believe abs are made in the kitchen. After ditching grains and sugar my body transformed into a machine and at 45 yrs old Im now in my best shape ever!
I still ride bicycles but instead of long rides (3 hrs ish) I do shorter (2 hr) rides with intervals) and started lifting weights! The best nutritional choice Ive ever made was getting of grains and sugar, give Mark Sissons 21 day challenge a try! If it doesn’t work there’s plenty of grains, sugar and processed foods waiting for you to consume!
Lol. The reason this and most diets work for people is that they are almost universally restrictive against processed food & desserts. If you think that pre-historic humans had bacon, fresh fruit and olive oil available to them on a regular basis then you need to take some classes on history, botany, and logic. Throughout history mankind (like other animals) ate what was plentiful at the time, and over winters ate food that was very crudely preserved from spoilage (drying and salting). At times this includes a lot of vegetables and fresh fruits, but only in certain times of the year. They also in all likelihood did not eat 3 meals a day like we do in contemporary american culture. You internet desk jockeys are hilarious though, so keep up the good work!
Great post and it is so true! I love rice, but it does not love me back. I avoid it as much as possible, but in the rare occasions when I eat rice I feel bloated and lethargic. People in general eat so much grains, bread, pasta etc and they wonder why they cannot lose weight! Eat your veggies, that is what I tell my clients that want to lose weight.
Ok, you guys are gunna hate me.
We are all going to die. We are all going to suffer in this life one way or another. But do you know what’s really going to make you suffer?? Stressing out on what is bad for you and going crazy on the computer spending hours researching grains and dairy ad everything else everybody believes is bad for you now days. The emfs an radiation you guys get from your phones and computers and the stress you have from being hypochondriatic is what’s going to shorten your life. Everybody has an agenda. Everybody has a “god” in their life whether they like it or not, somthing they live by. I refuse to make obsessive health rule over me, to make me a slave. I’ve been there bfore, and you know where that road leads to? Insanity. And all roads eventually lead to death anyway, why would you want to live like that? There is only one road that will prolong your life; nothing you eat can make you live forever, except the word of God, Jesus Christ. If you fill your life with Him, you WILL live forever, and if you have faith in Him, you can even eat grains and be cured of diseases. Everybody wants two things: to be happy and to be loved. Health will not fill that void, nor will knowledge nor will money, nor will all the vegetables in the world. Only your Creator can fill that void, and I PROMISE He will if you let Him.
Well, here’s the deal, LMB, you can eat unhealthy and make yourself sick but chances are the doctors will get hold of you and won’t let you go to your creator but will keep you alive with pills and eventually life support for so long you’ll be wishing you could die. I’ll happily fret over my diet and my health and will drop dead at some point without having to suffer those things.
Very interesting article – the best I have read on reasons not to eat grains. Research seems to indicate a link between a gluten free diet and improvements in eczema – another reason for eczema sufferers to stop eating grains. Thanks for the info
Perry, you need to wake up and smell the coffee…. Mark knows his stuff and proof is in the pudding (or in my case almond butter)
Your kidding yourself thinking grains are OK in the long run…. Pick up a copy of Taubes’ “Why we get fat”
If your working out 24/7 or one of the few that can eat anything you want to stay thin grains are fine, but maybe you’ll end up skinny fat at some point. Since I stopped eating grains and sugar I have lost body fat!
Perry, first of all Taubes is a very smart man! Maybe you should read “good calorie bad calorie”, or have you? I have been of sugar for about 7 years but since going off grains about 14 months ago I’ve noticed so many health benefits, and also some posotive changes with my physique including a 6 pack!
I used to have high triglycerides and low hdl…..not any more
Btw yur original post came across like you were bashing Mark Sisson!
Perry, I respect your stance on the subject. We will keep going back and forth but all I can tell you is at 45 years old I’m fitter them ever. 5’9″, 165 lbs and a 32 inch waist. I like being super fit and eating this way makes it easy for me to stay lean, and working out helps me build muscle. I will point you back to the original article posted by Mark Sisson himself… Fairwell
“Oh but wheat sustains our planet!” Give me a break! How about birth control people? That great paradox called dwarf wheat is making the poorest of us obese and the only people that look the way the poor used to look are vegatarians. One more thing, all you people defending the Japanese grain consumption/life span give me another break! They live a couple of years longer than the crap that is called an American diet and they’re your hero’s? A human is designed to live 120 years and other than an anomaly here and there we can do better.
Although I saw some valid points, the biased opinion of the author is rather invalidating, because that’s just a truth in science. Worse is the down right arrogance of the author – it’s disgusting. This piece may be overall valid but my vote is tone down the cockiness. I award you zero points.
It’s hard to reach a definitive conclusion on this. On one hand, carbs and dairy seem to just be pushed on us because it’s profitable; grains and pasteurised dairy keep for a fairly long time, and can be mass produced. Fruits and vegetables? Only way we’ll feed a 350 million person country is if 90% of the vegetables use growth hormones and whatnot. This leads me to a position of it being hard to accept pro-grain arguments, because it seems like the type of thing where many studies for grains would be funded by companies/organisations that benefit from it.
I don’t find it unlikely that scientific studies done that go against the flow of what’s economically sound would get buried. It’s not uncommon for conflicting studies in health industries to be shut down. Just a decade ago cholesterol was still considered to be 100% bad for you, while now they’ve distinctively found two types of packages that transport cholesterol, and cholesterol intake has a minimal effect on it… and high blood sugar leads to heart disease more than cholesterol does. Not to mention high carb intake can lead to things like diabetes and whatnot.
On the other hand, very few of these paleo, all natural etc. diets provide much in the way of factual evidence. I mean, seriously, you linked to Gutsense? The guy claims that fibre is the last thing we want and we should basically be eating nothing but starch. He even says we should avoid coniferous vegetables (lettuce, broccoli etc.)
It’s hard to find the truth between a lack of scientific evidence and potentially very corrupt industries. I don’t think I’m going to find any answers unless I become a scientist and study phytates, gluten, etc. myself.
For now, I’m cutting out grains, minimising nuts, and not using toothpaste (lots of mixed opinions regarding fluoride as well). I’ll see how things go and recommend what I’ve learned based on experience… right now there’s just far too much misinformation for me to be able to tell someone they should be paleo or not, and it’s hard to take any articles I find on the matter seriously, especially blog posts.
I just got info about your book and web site I will be getting the book,I got another book 7 weeks ago and it talked about wheat and the side affects it has on our bodies so I decided to remove it from my diet and in 4 days with pills my blood suger was at 3,4 so I removed some of the pills,7 to 10 days my 10 year or better depression was gone my blood pressure is 124 over 79 not 150,160,170 or 180 over 80 plus, My fingers has bumps on them and they are smaller. i will talk to you after I have read the book thanks
People have eaten grains for centuries mostly in their whole form. I have my doubts about all breads and grains being bad for you. Like anything, moderation is the key and I still think that some grains are healthy and beneficial for the diet. I get extremely bored eating salads and I have a condition that limits the amount of meat I can eat. A little oat meal in the morning a couple times a week and some pasta one or twice a week are fine in my opinion unless you have celiac disease or some other condition. To completely eliminate something that has sustained humans for centuries does not make sense to me. It reminds of the early 80’s when red meat and eggs for terrible for you. We know now that is simply not the case and in fact they are a healthy part of the diet. I still believe that grains in moderation can be part of healthy and satisfying diet.
Thanks for this informative article. I am really thankful to learn these facts since the majority of us consume grain on a daily basis. However, I have decided to reduce my intake last year due to weight gain.
I want to get some suggestion from you on how to have a healthy diet. Can you please make a blog on this and let me know?
People in my country need to learn how to have a healthy life.
Being a fitness addict, I’ve never found the need to consume grains. Though my mother will sometimes cook some up, I would always wonder what we’re adapted to consume, and grains doesn’t seem to fit in the list of natural foods. While the government may support grains, they also support limiting the consumption of eggs due to cholesterol. So they’ve lost my trust long ago.
I can’t believe I didn’t think of this until now though. I don’t know how I didn’t see or bring it up yet.
Thank you so much for this article. My story with grains is pretty terrifying, and boy did I learn my lesson this summer. There are a lot of factors involved, budget, convenience, kids picky tastes, and just the simply fact I needed more carbs in my diet.
I’ve maintained my 50 pound weight loss by going low carb and exercising very lightly. I also incorporated a lot of raw food cuisine that my budget would allow anyways, and found myself never with an appetite.
To get ready for bikini season, I decided to exercise more, but had very little energy to do so, low carb, and low calorie, so I started adding my favorite carbs back into my eating plans. I thought exercising would help me build muscle, and eating carbs again, would give me more energy.
It did. I felt amazing. I started eating noodles and bagels and bread again. I thought I was being healthy, and I guess I felt OK. I noticed that on days I started the day out with a bagel, I would go on a feeding frenzy, as if I was never full.
My kids loved the bagels too. During this time, was the first time my daughter went to camp. Their lunches were filled with “healthy” whole grains, in addition to me feeding her 500 calories bagels. I thought it was OK. My kids are tall and slender and get plenty of exercise.
By the end of the summer, my daughter and I had GUTS! It didnt happen right away, but maybe over a three month period. I didnt get my bikini body, despite the fact that I started working out 1 hour a day, (when before, I would do a few sun salutations). Money was still a concern. I cut out the bagels.
then, I decided to go low calorie. I made myself a big batch of Seitan. I completely killed my appetite. I was consuming about 600 calories a day two days at a time. Usually when I “fast” just for a few days. I drop five pounds no problem.
I didnt want to fast this time, because I was running 1 hour a day. Guess what, at the end of this three day period, after eating seitan everyday for 3 days, my stomach got even BIGGER! And I gained five pounds, which felt more like water weight. My face was all bloated, and my skin, lost its glow. My digestion was all messed up too.
My daughter had a puffy face and always seemed to all of a sudden have allergies. She complained of fatigue all the time, and always had colds and coughs. it wasnt even flu season. In fact, looking back, she was practically sick the whole summer.
Two weeks before school started, I cut out all bread, and some pasta, and was heavy handed on the vegees. My daughter slimmed down a lot. I immediately cut out all wheat, and I lost 10 pounds within a week.
I would’ve never beleived that wheat was bad. Because of my own personal experience, I sought out answers, found this blog, and read the book “Wheat Belly”. I threw out my 50 pound bag of whole wheat flour that I got for $5 at the grocery store.
I encouraged my daughter to see the connection between her coveted love of mac and cheese and bagels, and she is now associating salads, with health. I am looking for a non-gluten type of pasta I can swap out for her mac and cheese.
In fact, I would go on to say, that eating wheat is way worse than consuming alcohol. At least alcohol, you can do so in moderation, wheat is just killer at first bite.
It is amazing how far behind the government suggestions are than research. Grains obviously aren’t what we used to think they were and it’s amazing that even though this article was written several years ago people are still mostly unaware how bad they really are for you.
Good article. Lots of views. bottom line if it works and feels good do it. I believe moderation is the key. I have tried a lot of different things, some work for me some don’t.
“Wheat- and dairy products contain opioid peptides influencing endorphin receptors in the brain. These peptides are physically addictive, causing dependence, asthma, obesity, apathy, ignorance and numbness. The same goes for beta-carbolines from prepared food. To be sharp and investigative, you ought to consume neither dairy- nor wheat-products. You don’t need those ‘foods’ at all…All wheat-products, like bread, pasta, pizza, cookies, cake and pastries contain opioid peptides. The roman rulers already new that the people wouldn’t rise against them as long as they were entertained and fed bread…Because some wheat-opioids are extremely powerful, some schizophrenics can even be cured by not eating any wheat-products…”
This is absolutely ridiculous. He actually states scientific studies and findings, and writes them off as “not good enough,” without providing any scientific evidence to the contrary. Yes I’m sure muscles are more attractive to listen to than lab coats, but this, all of this, is simply unfounded and merely a man’s opinion. And half of it is false, proven with a simple google search using credible sources. Mark Sisson, stop leading an army down your ill proven trail of misconception. You’re a nice writer, but really bad at learning the whole truth. Go to school for nutrition and then get back to this. I think it’ll open your eyes to what’s really going on in the body.
One thing I have noticed in Indian culture, is people with high intake of chapatis ( made of grains) had higher than normal weight, and they could reduce weight by decreasing chapati intake. May be grain has more carbs , that contributes to increased wwight. Offcourse it contains fibers, but it is not the only source of fiber.
I am a grain and meat person and I know that it would be difficult for me into going primal but I really want to. I am afraid that I’m going to have a stroke anytime now with my weight and lifestyle. I am very hopeful that I could find the answer to living healthy in this site.
The standard “Euro” breakfast here in Thailand is Muesli cereal with low fat yogurt. The ingredient list of course is written in Thai language (indecipherable). I asked the nice, obese man from Brazil (who is here for 3 months to cut weight) if it was sweet. Replying in the affirmative I informed him it was most likely sweetened with high fructose corn syrup & additionally the cereal carb load in the morning was detrimental to his goals. I received a blank stare in response. Next up to relate to him the hormonal response of food in general and the importance of protein and fat. I left with the comment, no sugar, no dairy, no grains.
What about articles like those from the Harvard School of Public Health that talk about longevity experienced by those consuming whole grains and the other health benefits? Here is an example of one such article: http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/whole-grains/
Great article on grains. I was wondering whether white jasmine rice or sometimes known as Thai Fragrant rice is considered a bad grain? I am Singaporean Chinese and we eat rice with our meals sometimes both lunch and dinner, this applies to many people in other countries in Asia too. It seems that there aren’t as many issues related to diet in Asian countries so I was wondering what your thoughts are on white rice.
It would be great to hear from the others as well!
I have no problem with eliminating processed grains, and even making sure whole grains are consumed in reasonable quantity. But to demonize the entire category? You lost me.
Also, nothing on the ethical or environmental impacts of meat. This just cannot be ignored in any rational discussion regarding diet. Telling people to eat more meat just seems irresponsible to me. You honestly believe primal man consumed meat twice a day? Hunting is a time consuming, exhausting, and often fruitless task. Plants, seeds, and insects had to make up the bulk. I don’t care if the meat is lean or not, buying commercially raised meat has nothing to do with primal eating. Those people did not practice animal husbandry.
I seldom create comments, however i did some
searching and wound up here Why Grains Are Unhealthy |
Mark’s Daily Apple. And I actually do have a couple of questions for you if it’s allright.
Is it simply me or does it look like some
of these remarks come across like written by brain dead visitors?
😛 And, if you are writing on additional sites, I would like
to follow anything new you have to post. Could you list of all of all your communal pages
like your linkedin profile, Facebook page or twitter feed?
Grass-fed beef and free-range chicken do not mess with the environment nearly so much. When they talk about the water needed for cattle, feed lot cattle are quite damaging because the only way they get water is from drinking actual water. They are not getting any water from the grass which is freely available. In any case, I admire the moral leanings of vegetarians. Can I be a pesco-lacto-ovo-chick-atarian?
Discovered MDA in 2010 and quit grains. So thanks for that. But I’ve started to incorporate a cheat day ala Four Hour Body which ends up being Burger and beer… And man the next day you just notice that you HARMED your body. The toilet straight after the morning coffee and repeat a few times. hahaha… needless to say no more cheat day…
What about Spelt? It that a viable alternative? My wife and I have become pretty clean but Pasta is still one of my favourite dishes. We only eat spelt.
Hey nothing is wrong with dry goods – grains and beans. It’s a good back up when you have no money, fresh meat or veggies. .. just don’t stuff tie guts with it. ..
Hey nothing is wrong with dry goods – grains and beans. It’s a good back up when you have no money, fresh meat or veggies. .. just don’t stuff your guts with it. ..
I read farmers spray roundup on all their wheat to force the slow growing green ones to come to seed so all can be harvested and not wasted, and we ingest this roundup when we eat the grain products. Something to think about. Someone needs to experiment with organic flour, and then just with the ancient grains, organic of course. Its very hard to give up bread – its bloody everywhere! But I know how I feel when I don’t have grains (far better than when I eat em)
I really don’t agree with the idea that calorie types or certain foods, except those synthetic processed ones, are the problem but rather it is about knowing intimately one’s body and what works and then following sensible eating habits.
I’ve been through many interpretations of some diets like low carb, and even more crazy restrictive ones and It just feels different to sit with friends and family who just eat without a care whatever is served on the table. They may not be eating optimally but they don’t think much about it, get by and live day in and day out.
As for me I now eat anything available without reservation but focusing on whole, unprocessed foods as possible with the occasional feast. I also do 2 24 hour fasts twice a week and currently training for a mountain marathon.
All the great people I aspire and look up to also don’t give much thought about what they eat:
Pythagoras – Was known to not consume any form of meat products and instruct his followers to do the same.
Jesus – He did eat bread, and fish but I think he and his followers just ate whatever food was available or offered to them.
Buddha – Though many believed that buddhism pushes for veganism since it tries to respect all forms of life. The buddha himself just begged for food and ate what ever was given to him.
Gandhi – Was a vegetarian but did ate some meat in and even acknowledged it’s benefits. “We should eat to live and work.”
Winston Churchill – It is well known he had a penchant for food, alcohol, and smoke and yet lived to the ripe old age of 90 years old and, at the same time, making a tremendous impact on world history.
Steven Wilson – Man, I searched the net for some tidbits of his favorite foods and absolutely nothing, don’t know what he eats but what ever it is it’s got to be good since creative and challenging music just oozes out from him.
Manny Pacquiao – eats anything from oats, white rice, tinola (native chicken stew) to pochero.
Killian Jornet – The world’s most dominant ultra trail and mountain runner’s favorite food is chocolate particularly nutella and pizza. Also he has stated he doesn’t partake of meat that much.
Ueli Steck – The swiss speed climbing power house just eats a typical swiss diet but focuses on as natural foods as possible. This does mean lots of bread and cheese.
The point of all these is that the important thing about diet is all about making as much natural choices with what is easily available to the point that we don’t have to think about it and focus on living to our fullest potential and contribute something that is more than the total food and calories we consumed in this life time.
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Hi Mark – great article. For those people who really need a few grains or are trying to cut back and switching to different grain sources while they ween off, what grains would you suggest during this process? Obviously no wheat/gluten, white rice, etc..
My first thought is quinoa and wild rice during this transition. Your thoughts?
Bread is by far one of my biggest weaknesses. But I think cutting out the grain completely and eating more salad is the way to go! Thanks for the information.
Fantastic guide, especially the points about fiber – there’s plenty in the fruits and veggies without needing all of that extra insoluble fiber from grain.
Now if I can just persuade my husband to agree with me (I’ll be showing him this asap!) 🙂
Your article makes good points. However, not all grains are created equal. Some are ok to eat while others are not so good. Some people have messed up digestive systems, not from eating grains…but from eating other processed garbage(GMO’s, HFCS, etc…) . Then when they do eat something high in fiber or nutritious, their body lacks the proper enzymes and probiotics to process it properly. I do agree that if grains are causing one a problem, then theirs no harm in avoiding them.
My coffee maker broke down a few days ago, and I have not had any coffee, oh, for about four days. How interesting that I no longer have “the runs”, I no longer have to leave my position at work every 20 minutes to use the restroom. I still eat bread with NO PROBLEM, but that doesn’t mean I’m unaffected by it. Once I get used to not having coffee and my daily 3 PM diet coke, no longer crave it or miss it, then I’ll ditch the bread…..maybe I can reverse these age spots…..I think it is possible.
I think the evidence is overwhelming, especially from studies on carb restricted diets, that the majority of people who are overweight, diabetic, etc. would do best by avoiding or minimizing grains.
Look back at pictures 60-70 years ago at how thin people were. Look, even at 1960-ish movies, or think of your high school gym class (if you’re older) at the people who were considered “the fat guy/kid” and they wouldn’t even be considered very pudgy now. Something’s happened. Since 1980’s when they told us fat/eggs/butter were unhealthy, the food manufacturers responded by giving us thousands of new “food products”. They also realized, I’m sure to their glee, that they could take 27 cents worth of wheat and make it into a $4.99 box of cereal. (Grains are much more profitable than raising/selling broccoli). The rise in obesity/diabetes/cancer has corresponded with that big change in our diets. That the gov’t. subsidizes farmers to grow corn and wheat (but not broccoli or asparagus) and answers to Big Agra, Big Food, and Big Pharma , should give anybody a healthy dose of suspicion about what they are telling us.
Wheat and sugar were not consumed in any significant quantities for a million years while mankind evolved. That’s a good enough reason by itself.
(Oh, and it works for me…slim and excellent health at 53 even with menopause and sedentary job/hobbies.)
MDA hypothesis on grains mostly confirmed on N=1 experiment. Normally wheat will fatten me like a pig. Based on the DuckDodgers hypothesis of grain fortification, I sourced some organic non bleached non fortified white flour. Made bread, cookies, pies, pizza with it. No negative reaction, i felt great, even the cookies which had plenty of sugar had no effect. Following that I sourced some 100% sprouted whole grain bread (no fillers, conditioners, sugars, preservatives, etc) from a local bakery and started eating it daily with sandwiches for lunch. No effect on weight or hunger, it was actually filling and satisfying. However my number two’s became not pleasant and I started forming cavities and bad breath. When I stopped eating the whole grain bread my halitosis disappeared and cavities ceased.
Conclusions:
1) Fortified, bleached and adulterated white flour is definitely is a huge problem.
2) Non adulterated white flour probably not much of an issue (see Italy, France) if rest of diet is good.
3) Whole grains are a problem for general health (if not weight wise) which explains why humans ditched whole wheat flour in the first place when white flour became available, probably due to the anti-nutrients that are removed with the bran.
4) It appears that I have no bad reaction to gluten. Other issues with wheat seem to be the problem.
5) Best to avoid wheat in general and use organic non-bleached flour at home if you do.
On grains and insoluables, I started a low carb diet 1/1/15 and lost 35 lbs., and still on it. Problem is, I wasn’t eating any grains, no bread, rice, pizza, no sugar, no cereal, nothing with a grain base. The diet worked fine, but I had diarrhea for months. Just eating a lot of veggies and fruits didn’t seem to make any difference. So my GI doctor tried a few things, did some diagnostics, found nothing out of the ordinary (except that I had chronic diarrhea). He put me on Metamucil 2x a day. After a few days of that, things were back to normal, well, sort of. Plus I eat some homemade whole wheat bread every day or every other day in small amounts. So at least in my case I think having some fiber is necessary to keep things moving, but not moving too fast in my case. So has anyone reading this had the same issue? Have you solved it without having to take Metamucil 2x a day? This seems to be working but I don’t want to have to take Metamucil for the rest of my life.
I just came across this discussion. I agree with you spatin. I also recently reintroduced quality grains in small amounts to my diet and it has worked wonders on keeping things moving and intact, no diarrhea. I make avocado toast with a whole grain bread that I purchase from a local farmer that is awesome. You will never need Metamucil again.
NO- LET THIS BE THE LAST WORD PLEASE MARK- especially the last sentence- QUOTE
“Why Soak or Sprout?
Soaking any seed begins the processes of germination and fermentation, which have major benefits for the human diet:
•makes their minerals more available for absorption (by unlocking them from phytic acid). This includes not only the minerals in the grain, but other dietary minerals as well.
•breaks down the starches into shorter-chain vegetable starches and sugars;
•breaks down some of the proteins into peptides and amino acids;
•forms new proteins, vitamins, and other active components of the living plant.
But perhaps the most important benefit of sprouting is that turns the grain, legume, nut or seed into a vegetable! “
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I have been following a paleo diet for a few years now, but I was watching a show with Michael Pollan, the author of Omnivore’s Dilemma, and supposedly vegetarian diets are the healthiest. In fact, Seventh Day Adventists, who follow strict vegetarian diets, are supposedly one of the healthiest, longest living groups of folks around. According to Pollan, too much meat is a bad thing, so I’m just curious to know how a Paleo expert might respond to that. I’ve also read that too much meat can cause inflammation and, as someone with an autoimmune condition, inflammation is something I’m trying to avoid.
I guess I’m just curious then about entire civilizations that survived on grains like rice? What about the Asian and Middle Eastern countries who have some of the “healthiest” populations, but have diets primarily consisting of rice or quinoa or (insert “good” grain here)? Research like “The China Study” that alleges humans remove ALL ANIMAL sources…there’s just so much information out there and I am trying to find moderation, but it all starts to sound so terrifying that I begin to fear eating anything.
What about oat-water? I’ve heard about it. Does not consuming the oats themselves, but making this oat-water thing make using these things any better? They’e all over the damn place, and i’m vegan.
We love this article as it’s always a challenge to help folks understand why grains are unhealthy, especially when our food pyramid shows such an emphasis on whole grains. We’ll definitely be sharing this with our followers! And one of our favorite tips to help our members: make 50% – 70% of your plate VEGGIES!
We also need to frame the conversation of no grains vs some grains in the context of our training goals. The research is clear on longevity, a low grain, low carb diet is preferred but when performance or physique goals are in the mix, things clearly need to change. Personally on “off” days, I do fine with less than 100 grams of carbohydrates from rice and potatoes but on days that I train, I’ve got to go up to 300 grams plus.
I have got to say that I wan’t very aware of that, and when the kids are hungry after the school, I didn’t think of it too much. Thanks for this info, will check myself as soon as possible.
A good read and especially useful for those following a primal lifestyle.
I do however consider grains to be a supportive staple of many cultures the world over – for people who have and still do thrive off grains. Its true, you can get what you need nutrient wise from other plant sources, BUT why avoid that source if it is readily available, well tolerated by many, cheap and can be stored, unlike produce and meat which has a limited shelf life in comparison. The antinutrirnts aren’t a problem if you soak and sprout grains. Phytic acid is broken down, bioavailability of nutrients increases as does the nutrient content. You need Employ some human intervention to elicit these changes, but the same could be said for kefir – humans need intervene to produce a richer spectrum of nutrients. No doubt grains are bad for some – genetics, microbiota, weakened digestion, refining, preparation; for others they can be incredibly beneficial protecting against heart disease, even diabetes – it all depends on who is eating them!
I don’t believe that it has ever been acceptable for someone to analyze an entire food group, having no medical knowledge, and relying on subjective observation. You might consider asking your doctor, as I am sure that they will tell you differently. (After all, they went to school for many years to be able to assert their opinions).
Mark Sisson, you are absolutely right. because to lead our engine needs several kinds of nutritional elements that can”t carry only grain. So that only cereal diet is risky to distribute others essential component.
Thank you for your article! I like the way it’s written in so reasonable way. I was thinking about adjusting my diet so it would contain less gluten for a long time, but never have been brave enough to do so. Maybe it’s time for me to change it 🙂
I am a registered dietitian nutritionist. With a variety of advanced degrees. I find it incredibly frustrating that the reality of grains, flours, breads, etc. are hidden from the public. I teach nutrition at the college level, and dietetic students are STILL being told “carbohydrates are our preferred fuel” What did gatherers eat?? Grasses, shoots, berries…yes much of what was carbohydrate. NONE of what was grain. How do we dig up the “dirt” on where this myth comes from?
I never knew that Grains are unhealthy, my friend said me once he avoids eating breads and related food because of Gluten issue. Thanks for highlighting a nice info on this.
Well as a newby I think all these e-mails just show that we are all different. I have found over a trial period of three years or longer the a small amount of bread improves my mental and visual acuity. However that is bread eaten with fat or protein and not sugar. I fought against this for over or years as I was brainwashed about grains being ‘poison’/.For me they are not …..my body likes them in small amounts and apart from that nothing approaches the texture of good bread. This black or white approach to nutrition is not helpful as one can always find exceptions to any rule. Assess honestly how you feel after eating a certain food, not how you feel you should feel. Give it a fair trial and go with the results. Mark is a good guide but not the absolute last word. Fresh,organic food in moderation seems a sensible approach. from whatever angle.
Great article. Why are there so many question marks throughout it though? When I see this article looks as if there are question marks where apostrophes go and unnecessary punctuations. Is it the browser I’m using or is that how it was written?
I just know that every time that I eat a piece of bread I don’t go to the toilet, all my life I’ve been having this problem. Bread, white or brown, it doesn’t matter, it always causes me constipation. I feel happy to have found this website becase normally everybody talks very well about cereals. Thanks
I would agree about lowering on grains (because of the carbs), but not stop eating it or calling them unhealthy!! Its totally not fair to say you don’t need fibers. Being a food & nutrition researcher myself, I would not agree with the details you have provided about fiber. Please go to Google scholar and just check on dietary fiber and their health effects. Not just that, there is an immensely growing PROVEN research that shows the benefits of fiber. Balance is the key to good diet. And grains are totally a part of that balance.
Interesting. My ibs has been fine all week, then I ate a bowl of oatmeal yesterday. Like clockwork, 24 hours later, my symptoms came back. I am also beginning to believe that insoluble fiber is the enemy of the digestive system. Apples also reek havoc on my system. Maybe I’ll stick to chicken, white rice (I know, it’s a grain, but fiberless and innocuous to me), and starchy vegitables.
With all due respect to the diet ideologues on both sides of the isle your both laughably wrong. Because the fact is your body needs only protein, vitamins, minerals water and essential fatty acids. It does not need meat, it does not need vegetables, it does not need grains or frankly any other specific food as they are mere carriers of the essential nutrients. So consider the following analogy. Two tribes collect water from the same well. The water is clean and satisfying. One tribe uses a glass container to collect the water and the other uses a lead container. Early on both tribes are well hydrated and thrive. Unfortunately, over time the traces of the lead container leaches into the water and slowly poisons the tribe using that container. So spare us with early man ate this or that as early man was lucky to survive 40 years of life, so where exactly is the long term studies regarding the impact of the random, hunter gathering they performed. Fact is they would try and eat anything they could. Sprouted grains is a better nutrient carrier than any industrial meat product and better than most vegetables in terms of breadth of nutrients. The negative impacts of Ketogenic diets is well known and reflected in the moderating instructions from proponents who have a conscience. There is no confusion that a Plant based diet along with moderate sprouted grains, <10% grass fed (100%) or pasture raised chicken and olive, coconut, avocado or seed based oils is superior based on science not some ideology which starts with a desired answer and backs into the questions and manufactures answers. Enough with the superficial processed grains nonsense…as it is no less representative of a plant based diet than industrial grain fed meat is.
Grass-fed organic meat, or that from wild game, is vastly superior. If it is eaten raw, all the better because it contains more nutrients than any plant, including sprouts. Especially so with certain organs.
It strikes me that in this article you make an obvious reasons for not eating meat. That is that animals come equipped for defense. If that means they don’t want to be eaten, then along with grains, we should leave it out of our diet.
in fact, you make a very good case for going fruitarian.
Just saying.
That isn’t a valid point of view. Nothing *wants* to be eaten. Life is full of suffering and it can’t be avoided.
Lions don’t care about what some gazelle might think and neither should humans.
There is nothing that supports fruitarianism. Humans can digest fresh raw meat better than anything else. It contains more nutrients than any plant, including vitamin C.
Industrial meat, on the other hand, that’s to be avoided.
If grains are so bad, then why were the Roman legions so effective? They ate mostly grains in the form of porridge, flat bread, and hard tack. Granted, they did eat eggs, cheese, fruit, vegetables, and meat when they could find it. That doesn’t change the fact that they could march for 30 miles, set up a small fortress, then fight if they needed to. They also build roads and various structures.
All of this was done with heavy grain consumption. I know that the grains were generally soaked beforehand, which is known to make grains easier to digest.
It has been said that their “barbaric” enemies would often tire easily during battle. In particular, the Germanic, Celtic, and Thracian peoples were known for eating lots of meat and some vegetables.
I would like to know your thoughts on this subject.
Wow. why do these comments read like the youtube comments section? Alot of vitriol and hard-headedness. You’ll never change your health with that attitude. How about try the diet for a month and then comment about how supposedly bad it is?
Can we please know who you are and what your qualifications are? Are you qualified to make these statements or is itall guesswork? Where are the studies that these facts are derived from?
I suspect you may be in to something but would like proof.
Thanks.
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I find that grain bashing makes for a tasty, but ultimately unsatisfying meal.
Very timely, as I read this in my school’s buffet. I’m going to grab some more salad!
Sounds like a wonderful idea! There is nothing like a good ole primal salad 🙂
I can’t believe I just read this article…
It is a MUST READ for anyone who thinks grains are good for them! I will be passing this around the web like crazy 🙂
While I feel it’s probably right, it surely isn’t a must read. That is, unless your must read criteria favors feelings and cute parenthetical usage over evidence and citations.
Thank you Mark Sisson for this article and everyone who commented. The Paleo diet is amazing and giving up grains was one of the best decisions I have made for my life and health.
@R: Actually if you look through the article Mark links to a bunch of studies to back up his key points.
Personally I am very much against gluten grains, although I do eat healthier grains like rice once or twice a week. For pleasure, not for health.
At the end of the day, grains are a food group that contains absolutely NO essential nutrients that you can’t get in MUCH greater amounts from animals and vegetables. Therefore, making them the foundation of the food pyramid (or food plate) just doesn’t make any sense at all.
I think the evidence is overwhelming, especially from studies on carb restricted diets, that the majority of people who are overweight, diabetic, etc. would do best by avoiding or minimizing grains.
Agreed. These are some interesting assertions, and probably worth investigating, but where is the evidence? What sources can you cite? Are there any peer-reviewed studies that support your claims?
It takes more than vitriol and big words to make me change my daily habits.
Research paleo diet and you will see that it is greatly considered a bad idea based off inaccurate theory. Red meat and eggs high in cholesterol good cancer preventing grain bad? This is essentially a dairy free Atkins fad diet. It’s actually listed as one of the worst diets out of a list of 25 and is generally considered a fad diet. It’s based on a diet of people that didn’t live long and had horrible health. By the way fiber does a lot more than give you a solid shit. Oh we’ll have fun with your colon cancer dumb asses.
How stupid must this guy feel now…
People who attempt to out others with no evidence themselves need to be held accountable, like this guy.
J is right, meat is terrible for you. It is the absolute worst thing to eat, definitely worse than grains. Grains are obviously bad too. So what do we eat? Just fruits, vegetables and nuts? Raw vegan?
Also the key is moderation. There is no need to cut anything completely out of your diet. Why punish yourself. Health is based on person to person. No one has the right answer. One person say eat it or prepare it like this and the next says dont. The key is to get the nutrients you need I’m a moderate and common sense diet.
Of the links that he gives in the article, several of them lead to dud 404 error pages. One of them was done 40 years ago, and the one from 2006 that he linked to hadn’t even been published when he got the info from it.
The only legit article I could see that he linked to had a p value of 0.036 for the variable he was interested in which, while statistically significant in some studies, is not an overwhelmingly positive result, and I couldn’t find any other articles to back this result up.
Meanwhile, I look this up on Google Scholar and it is just full of published and peer reviewed articles from all over the place that say the exact opposite to this article.
I’m not saying that this article isn’t true, but telling me about personal experience and linking to other articles telling me about personal experience simply doesn’t count as evidence for me. Can anyone please point me towards the scientific literature for this? I can’t seem to find it.
HERE HERE!
I agree with Kris’s comment that the article is full of studies to back up most of the salient points. And I’m no fan of grains at all.
However, I think the article could use a bit of updating based on what we know now, specifically in terms of fiber and lectins.
Lectins are bad, but they’re almost always broken down by heat and digestion, so the harmful effects are mostly limited to folks with a compromised gut flora or pre-existing digestive issues.
More importantly, while we don’t need the fiber that grains contain (predominantly non-fermentable), our guts do thrive on fermentable fiber and resistant starch. That’s obviously no reason to eat grains, but we shouldn’t dismiss fiber altogether. The science on fiber gets reported in bad ways, but it’s pretty conclusive.
Hello Jeremy,
Thank you for your input. I would like to make a few remarks concerning your post.
I would like to start with three quotes from an FDA handbook on phytohaemagglutinin:
“Raw kidney beans contain from 20,000 to 70,000 hau, while fully cooked beans contain from 200 to 400 hau”
“as few as four or five raw beans can trigger symptoms”
“besides inducing mitosis, lectins are known for their ability to agglutinate many mammalian red blood cell types, alter cell membrane transport systems, alter cell permeability to proteins, and generally interfere with cellular metabolism”
This would mean that 100 cooked kidney beans contain the same amount of lectins as one raw kidney bean, and four raw (or 400 cooked) beans can already have a noticeable negative effect. And apparently, the digestive tract is not very efficient in breaking down these proteins before they can do any harm! This, at least to me, is enough reason to assume that less than 400 cooked kidney beans, while not resulting an immediately noticeable effect, will still affect the intestinal lining in a negative way. Coupled with the apparent damage to the epithelial cells caused by the fiber, I believe there is a real danger posed to your gut health in the long term.
Now, of course this is just about kidney beans – other grains usually don’t have lectins with such extreme effects. Still, if you eat some of them every day, the damage might easily pile up. And you’ll only notice it when you have a grievous enough condition, because after all you don’t exactly feel your intestinal lining being damaged. Theoretically, this could result in autoimmune diseases and other conditions associated with chronically high inflammation markers (damage to your lining causes inflammation, and the lining has a huge surface, so there’s a lot of room for a lot of inflammations at once).
That said, I don’t think this article is very well-written or founded. I would recommend PaleoMom’s articles on lectins and phytic acid, if you want to delve deeper into the subject.
Kind regards,
Michael
PS: And obviously, you’re right about the fiber part. Soluble fiber is what our gut bacteria live off of, after all.
The thing here though is….is if you believe everything you read, there’s nothin’ left on the menu, so to speak. Most, if not all foods have some benefit, BUT….all things in moderation. And I don’t find this article a “must read”. Interesting yes. Must read, no way. The only foods I can think of off the top of my head to DEF stay away from, from bite one, is stuff like McDonalds, etc., but we’d be comparing oranges to apples. I’d hardly call McDonalds “food”…it just fills your gut and your arteries with crap you don’t want EVER! Trust me….I learned the hard way. I’ve already had a “light” heart attack, a stint in my right coronary artery, then a couple years later, total flat line cardiac arrest dead as a door nail, bit the dust kinda dead, and they had to do an emergency quad bypass, and a femoral aortal replacement. Not a lot o’ fun. Just shy of 3 days of it bein’ one year, I’m still recovering. And NONE of it was attributed to grains, but to fat and high cholesterol foods. It’s a proven fact that oats and oatmeal reduce cholesterol, and I do believe it’s a GRAIN. Isn’t that strange? They sure ain’t no fish, dairy product, veggie or meat. Again….all things in moderation, but just use your brain and stay away from fatty foods unless the fat is the Omega 3 fatty acid in fish and certain other “land foods”. Don’t let this, or any other site brain wash ya bro. Learn the good fats from the bad, read labels, and realize if grains were a death nell for the human species, we’d not have made it this far along the evolutionary chain anyway. Or…if you wanna look at it from a different point of view….”Give us this day our DAILY bread…” Just sayin’
Have you tried eliminating grains? I did and saw some amazing results. I lost forty lbs, saw my allergies almost disappear, and my asthma completely resolved. My allergist still refuses to believe that it has anything to do with grains, even though every time I have beer or some pizza I will wheeze for a day or more. To her, like you, it is simply too unlikely. There must be some other explanation. I.e. ‘That Tim guy is a crazy nut.’ (I won’t dispute that part.)
I tried the conventional wisdom of eating ‘heart healthy whole grains’, bags of veggies and lean meats. It just made me sicker. I even went raw vegan for nearly a year, again sicker. Honestly, that was when I was the sickest with constant bronchitis, wheezing, virus after virus, etc. But after ditching the grains and switching to heart healthy saturated fat… never better. I haven’t been sick in over a year now. Not a sniffle. Maybe my allergist is right and maybe you’re right. Maybe it won’t work for you at all, but you’ll never know for sure unless you try (some green eggs and ham).
-Tim
-Tim
For the sake of your health I would suggest you reconsider your position on this subject. Besides corn there are no grain foods that we eat today that are unprocessed. I challenge you to find a grain (other than corn) and try to eat it in its natural state. you’ll either swallow it whole in which case it will go straight through you like fiber or you’ll be booking yourself into the dentist to get your chipped teeth fixed after trying to chew it. even if you did get to the contents within the grains shell you would not enjoy the taste. Should we really be eating something that we can only tolerate eating following it being processed and combined with sugar or flavors? you say none of it was attributed to grains but do you actually have any idea of the physiological processes within the body for the progression of heart disease??? do you know what roles cholesterol play within the body?? Do you know why they’ve attributed atherosclerosis and heart disease to high cholesterol?? Cholesterol is vital for human function. It is a structure of cells it ensures correct hormone production and function and plays a vital role in digestion. We need cholesterol. High cholesterol does not predict your risk of heart disease and nor does fat intake as long as its natural animal or plant based fat. just like sugar grain intake leads to systemic inflammation leading to the oxidation of LDL cholesterol and the dysfunction of HDL cholesterol. When LDL-C is oxidized it is attracted into the intima of artery walls thus causing atherosclerosis and heart disease.They made assumptions about cholesterol purely based on its role in transporting fat and got it all wrong but now that they’re making billions and billions of dollars selling cholesterol lowering drugs noone is whiling to correct the misconceptions of cholesterol. Cholesterol is only bad when your body is in an inflamed state. Go to your doctor and ask him to measure your levels of C-reactive protein which is a marker of inflammation then go on a no grain diet high fat and high protein diet (meats, fish, nuts, seeds, vegetables, salads) for a month or so and get it retested. You will see a decrease in C-reactive protein levels thus meaning you will have reduce the systemic inflammation in your body in turn reducing your risk of further complications associated with heart disease. Cholesterol lowering meds work to decrease risk of complications associated with heart disease but not by lowering cholesterol. Studies show that cholesterol lowering tablets slow the progression of atherosclerosis before its taken any affect to lower cholesterol levels. The fact that cholesterol lowering drugs reduces systemic inflammation is the true mechanism behind how they work however cholesterol lowering drugs increase cancer proportionally to the decrease in heart disease complications. also you do realize that the studies and articles you read about oats and every other product claiming to reduce cholesterol are all reported by people with invested interest in their sales?? they are the ones doing the brain washing. Fat intake has decreased and grain intake has increased and yet we are seeing a continual rise in heart disease, diabetes obesity (especially in children) and many other conditions and our life expectancy is beginning to decrease … go figure.. I could go on and on about the relationship between grain intake and many other health conditions.
Arejay, Congratulations on making it through what sounds like an awfully scary and traumatic experience! I’m happy you’ve chosen to pay attention to your diet. It’s definitely smart to avoid McDonald’s.
However, it sounds like you’re informed by old recommendations. Saturated fat has not been proven unequivocally to raise cholesterol and clog arteries. Your body produces almost all the cholesterol it needs, and you actually absorb <10% cholesterol from foods. Chronic inflammation promotes arterial plaques, and this is something you must address with a good diet. The only true "bad fats" out there are hydrogentated oils. Stress and healthy social connections that promote happiness and physical connection are also shown in many studies to reduce cardiac events.
Here is one source of many regarding the saturated fat confusion.
http://eatingacademy.com/nutrition/how-did-we-come-to-believe-saturated-fat-and-cholesterol-are-bad-for-us
also, check out "The Great Fat Debate", where expert researchers culminated their lessons and made recommendations. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21515107
As a Registered Dietitian, I've been reading research about fats for years. I'm amazed that we still continue to tell people to eat low-fat, high-carb diets when this is not well supported in our scientific evidence. In fact, our evidence shows this advice to be harmful: as people have reduced fat in their diets, their sugar & carb intake has increased. So has waistlines, cancer, diabetes, and heart disease.
Good luck. And please keep looking for good research to draw conclusions to help you in your healing efforts.
Watch this 6 part video. About 45 minutes altogether. See if this new information changes your mind.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VklT8uL8yo&feature=player_embedded
A popular book “wheat belly”, refers to evidence the wheat plant has been re-engineered in order to produce more in a shorter time in short in the name of profits. This may partially explain why for centuries we did not have issues eating grains and now we do.
Oh dear! Whose bible have you been reading? Even my doctor is telling his patients to ditch the bread. But if you ARE intent on having bread, perhaps read ‘Nourishing Traditions’ by Sally Fallon.
You might be ok with a few oats now and again. Be sure to by the organic gluten free ones. You can actually pick oat and eat it raw, so it would qualify in the sphere of “what we used to eat.” I think you really need to find a good “health” practitioner where you live. I don’t mean a “sickness” practitioner. Sickness practitioners (otherwise known as doctors) make their money when your sick. They have no financial incentive to keep you well. I beg you to take more responsibility for your health and become informed.
I eliminated grains about 6 weeks ago after reading Wheat Belly. All my cravings are gone and this is the best i have felt in years!
I say your asthma is a result of you believing from the get go the grains would help. In other words placebo. Just listened to an asthma study were placebo and medicated patients felt same exact results. In other words I don’t believe you either.
To the comment posted by “J” (Feb. 6, 2012) in response to “Tim’s” comment about his allergy disappearing and that being the placebo effect – that’s untrue. I went off gluten last year because I had been tested years earlier only to discover, after an 8-week detox/reintroduction of nearly everything, that I am wheat sensitive, but had, sadly, fallen back off the wagon with my pregnancies. Within a few years I was diagnosed with asthma, experienced itchy, flaking ears, was chronically bloated, and felt an overall lethargy, not to mention the severe mood swings and bouts of depression. Thus, I realized I had to do something proactive. I had no idea at the time that going off gluten would have any effect on my asthma, nor was it suggested by my naturopath – I was merely doing this for the ear flaking; however, I went from inhalation of a daily cortico-steroid and occasional need for an inhaler, to being drug- and asthma-free. In fact, this past winter I didn’t even get my usual bout of bronchitis, nor did I get sick! So all I want to contribute to this discussion is that if you can’t believe in the tangible results that people post here, what can you believe in? Certainly not the doctors! When I told my allergist about the asthma going away and asked if he ever saw this in connection with gluten elimination, he answered in the affirmative. When I asked him why then he didn’t tell his asthma patients to try a gluten detox, he answered that he’d have no more patients! I got my kids off gluten, as well, and my son’s eczema disappeared, in addition to my daughter’s ADHD reversing and the school taking her off her IEP. You can negate this all you like, but at some point you have to recognize the truth in personal human trials/results. By the way, happily, I haven’t had a bout of depression since!
Give us this day our DAILY bread? Like you said, you can’t believe everything you read.
We need cholesterol. It is neither good nor bad.
Read this article:
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/08/10/making-sense-of-your-cholesterol-numbers.aspx
Do Not Eat Grains…knows what he/she is talking about; sounds like Dr. Jason Fung, an internist in Toronto, Canada who has done an extensive review of most of the published scientific evidence in the last 50+ years. See his 6-part YouTube Video Lecture series “Aetiology of Obesity.” He is having great success treating his Type 2 Diabetes patients with a combination of intermittent fasting and the paleo diet principles of cutting out processed carbohydrates and vegetable oils.
Without those grains, and other glutenous high GI starchy carbs, cholesterol would be burned for energy, along with fat and protein… Then there would be no need for oatmeal to lower the bad cholesterol. Just sayin’.
“daily bread”= Word of God (in the context you’re referring to)
“…so the harmful effects are mostly limited to folks with a compromised gut flora or pre-existing digestive issues.”
The issue here is that, given the plethora of intestinal-barrier-loosening substances in foods like wheat (its proteins demonstrably act on zonulin, which loosens tight junctions), and the contributions to this damage by dairy, and processed foods. (via, to give one out of tens of examples, indigestible large molecules)… it is very likely that many people have compromised guts to some noticeable degree.
The issue is that statements like this cause folks who have not officially been told or “diagnosed” as having damaged digestive systems… or who don’t experience _that_ much heartburn or bloating (healthy animals do not generally experience these at all)…
…to consider themselves healthy.
It is more likely than not that most folks have damaged guts and impaired gut flora, especially if they have been eating additive-laden American/European popular foods for awhile.
(There is a plethora of information regarding negative impact on gut flora of many, many common, processed foods like bread.)
So, the default attitude might more correctly be: If you’re not sure whether you have gut problems, it is more than likely that you do to some degree.
(unless you have been eating Primal/Paleolithic-esque without neolithic foods or additives for a very long time)
We live in an unideal world; I do not like encouraging complacence and blindness.
The tendency to assume one is healthy until acute signs show up — and just assuming little discomfort (like consistent heartburn, burping, etc.) as “normal” causes MASSIVE problems.
I think it would be a lot less disingenuous to simply state the likelihood that a random reader has some noticeable degree of gut dysfunction.
Also, while I did not really touch on it all, the gut is a very complex system.
Hormones, immune barrier, an entire microbiome… and constantly processing our energy and nutrients.
There are many other effects on the health of the digestive system than just intestinal barrier loosening and gut flora problems, although both are HUGE in and of themselves.
Inflamed intestinal lining, overgrowth of undesirable microbes.. all such things are very likely quite common.
Not knowing about a health problem does not equal not having it.
Since most health issues are a continuum (and do not just become significant when the acute symptoms driving one to a doctor — or the biomed library or internet to research frantically — show up), most folks have them.
Most folks have them in their 20’s, 30’s, and 40’s in the U.S., which completely underscores any arguments about hunter-gatherer folk living less long (also not quite true).
We’re getting chronic health issue development FAR YOUNGER than ANY Indigenous populations… or even our great-great-grandmothers (go back 2-3 centuries).
…so, in essence, the paradigm and approach to health and the beginnings of health problems needs to shift, and… since most Paleo/Primal folks who post and have done a decent amount of research are aware oi many of the pieces of this puzzle (which, when put together, lead to overwhelmingly likely chronic, low-level but bad health problems developing in most folks)…
…perhaps is wiser to communicate much more clearly than “absolutely healthy until proven unhealthy”
…which is the prevalent attitude in the vast majority of those who are in the midst of developing health ills and woes.
you really need to go watch vegan gains on youtube. low carb diets are not healthy or sustainable. this data is cherry picked.
Ask the Inuit how many grains they get north of the Arctic Circle? I guess a diet that sustained Arctic cultures for thousands of years is unsustainable…
CHINA STUDY…by Thomas Colin Campbell…a must read…ask your library to buy one. Also, organically raised fruits and vegetables and grains. BTW, the word “grains” is really not very exact as there are lots of different grains and not all are exactly alike. So if you want exact information, seek a more exacting source. But this is interesting in a kind of waste your time way
Hello all,
I recently discovered this blog and have found it very interesting. There is a growing body of evidence that suggests a link between grain consumption and chronic degenerative diseases. I’m interested in the link between lectins from grains (specifically legumes) and neurodegenrative diseases such as dystonia and other movement disorders. Does anyone out there have information about this or know of anyone who has successfully treated their dystonia by adopting a Paleo-diet? Thanks….
Ah, grains, ie. cereal grains, are not legumes. Peas, beans, alfalfa, carob, soy, peanuts. They are plants in the Fabaceae family. Cereal grains are grasses in the monocat family Poaceae.
My husband and I recently embarked on a “healthier” alternative lifestyle just over a month ago…and when I say alternative, it’s due to the fact that it is not your average American diet including cereal, pasta, bread and “whole grains.” In fact, we eliminated grains completely and have been enjoying lean protein, vegetables and some fruits. In this past month, I have lost 11 lbs. (that I have been trying to lose the past two years) and my husband has lost 18 lbs. Now, I’m not promoting this as a “diet plan” because while that certainly was a nice side affect it was not our goal. I used to have serious gastrointestinal issues and migraines on a weekly basis. My husband used to have cravings where he would get up in the middle of the night, go to the kitchen and eat half a loaf of bread, not able to able to stop himself. After purging our bodies from the wheat/gluten, my problems have literally disappeared and my husbands cravings are gone. It sounds miraculous, I know…but this little scientific experiment that we tried on ourselves has definitely convinced us. We love our new Paleo-lifestyle and will never go back!
It really is amazing to me that our government pushes everyone to eat something so bad for you just so they can make billions of dollars a year. They know its bad for us, they just dont care. I am a veteran and after 1 particular tour in Iraq i all of a sudden had asthma. I was sent for tons of tests that came up inconclusive and they ended up giving me an inhaler an advair neither of which helped. After 2 years of using meds that didnt work and all types of tests nothing worked and i felt awful whenever i worked out. Fastforward to Crossfit….i started doing it with Seal Team 5 on a deployment and it was great, but i still felt like crap during workouts. I started going to and actual Crossfit gym and they taught me about eating Paleo. Within 4 weeks of being grain, dairy, and sugar free my asthma was GONE!!! Not only that but my energy levels increased, and i was sleeping more soundly through the night, and now ill be 40 next year and i am one of the top performing athletes in our gym. So good for you guys going Paleo and tell the world about it like i do. Everyone i meet and will give me a chance i tell them about the Paleo diet.
Gave up gluten because daughter gets rashes and who knows what else internally and have noticed improvements in my health as well. For instance, with my last pregnancy i didn’t gain as much weight or get swollen ankles and stuff. But i also don’t eat meat, except wildcaught seafood and eggs. and i don’t eat dairy. also don’t eat HFCS. so i’m questioning if it’s the gluten free that is responsible for me being healthy. Also i eat a lot of rice and corn because it doesn’t have gluten. Is rice and corn restricted in this diet? what about beans? we eat lots of beans (too much).
What if you are a vegetarian? How do you fill up? On vegetables? I read an article on how soy has been transformed and we should not eat it?
I just started eating vegan about 2 months ago. Many health issues are resolving; I can hardly believe my eyes. I eat when I am hungry just enough to arrest the hunger. I am eating far less. I do not eat soy, but anything else that grows. No “factory food”. I do not fight appetite or hunger or cravings. Fatigue is gone. Much more alert and energetic. I’ve never felt this good. I don’t miss the old way of eating at all.
It’s amazing how differently we can react to the same things. When I decided to go vegan about 10 years ago, I gained quite bit of weight, despite greatly increasing my activity level and my blood sugar went up to a prediabetic level. It was only when I adopted a paleo diet, low in carbs, no grains, that the weight started coming off and psoriasis cleared up and energy returned to normal. Also, just as wonderful is the lack of cravings. Food no longer ‘calls my name’, especially at night.
Tee, when you quit eating meat and animal products you can still gain weight and be unhealthy if you replace meat and animal products with processed foods, canned foods, chinese food, heavy italian food, oreos, potatoe chips and oily snacks, basically junk. A healthy vegan diet consists of fruits, vegetables, nuts, beans and grains. Take the grains out and wow, I dare you to not lose weight and get healthy. I’m positive you two were not on the same diet, even though you both went vegan.
No, I was very health conscious and didn’t believe in putting processed junk in my system, so I wasn’t able to blame that for the weight gain and other health issues that developed. It turns out that Insulin Resistance due to the high carb intake caused it. Once carbs were lowered, the weight fell off and carb cravings went with it, thankfully..
Hi Rob, I have dystonia. I read on one dystonia forum of a forum member adopting this diet and seeing significant changes.
You are right, I discovered it couple of days ago and Mark changed my life!
About paleo diet treatment and proof that it can cure is myself! It changed me, I feel more energized a lot better since I started it.
Arrepientanse hippies, todo lo que comen les hace da~o porque viven en una vida llena de pecado y por eso tienen miedo de comer lo que Dios creo para nuestro bien….ustedes le dicen malo a lo que Dios dice bueno. Estan enfermos por pecadores NO por comer gluten o granos. Arrepientanse!
LOL
cálmate wey
Bien dicho Martine. Jaja!
god didn’t create modern grains, people did by taking entirely inedible grasses and turning them into edible, albeit indigestible grains like wheat etc.
I have been learning more about the paleo diet from a friend of mine. My experience is in veganism and macrobiotics, and as I am learning more about our excess grain consumption as a society, what you say Marion really makes sense to me. You can pick an apple or pluck a lettuce leaf and it is ready to eat, but wheat or rice pulled from the ground are certainly not!
while I am on the fence about the whole grain issue I have to say Jesus Christ did eat bread did he not? I mean cavemen didn’t eat “salads” they didn’t eat fruit salads either. They didn’t eat nearly many of the things we eat today. They just weren’t available. So should we assume eating chinese, italian are bad too? I think the problem with the whole grains is that they are “bulking” up too much of most peoples meals. too many carbs and fiber. Instead of a bowl of cereal maybe some eggs and a piece of toast? Or a cup of cereal and some eggs? I have to admit that i haven’t eaten any cereal within a couple days and I don’t feel normal either… Should I eat more yogurt for that? how about those nuts that are bad for you too? maybe we shouldn’t eat anything because too much veggies and fruit are bad too? i think our modern day human life style completely strips us of our natural instinct for survival. If caveman saw a wheat field and he was hungry I bet he’d try and eat it if a nice buffalo wasn’t available. Why do Possums and rats snack on our food garbage? survival!
god didnt make the computer you’re sitting at.
or the polyester your wearing.
oh, and if it’s cotton you’re wearing, well remember, just like grains, cotton plants were harvested too.
this article is bogus.
Some thoughts on Jesus and bread:
He was penniless, itinerant, and spent much time preaching among the poor — saying “daily steak” would have been unrealistic and cruel.
The Roman Empire was known for its free public bread, so He might have been using a common turn of phrase for “sustenance”.
He was either the Son of God, and could have eaten uranium if He wanted to… or an ordinary man who grew up poor and couldn’t have known anything about nutrition. Either way, He had no reason to avoid bread.
His theme was all about getting into Heaven, not optimizing one’s health and lifespan. He specifically told people not to worry about what they ate.
He died violently at a young age, so we have no data about his long-term health.
and honestly, calling us hippy sinners? and that we’re only sick because we’re sinners? i can only presume you’re joking, otherwise take your zeal and stuff it where the sun don’t shine!
I think you have missed the fact that humans has been around for more than 100 000 years. Jesus christ was born 2012 years ago.
Anyone who believes in the christian god please explain why god was slacking at least 98000 of those years before he decided to sacrifice his son?
I’d like to see one theist show any historical proof that “Jesus” even existed. Careful records were kept of everything back then, yet not a single shred of evidence exists; and you can’t count the bible as it was clearly written by men and shows many inconsistencies and outright contradictions. Not to mention that the “Jesus Story” was told for hundreds of years before his supposed arrival. They just changed the names of those born of a virgin, having 12 followers, performing healings and ‘miracles’, being killed and rising again in 3 days. Those stories were told about Horus, Mithra, Dionysius, Krishna and others. So let’s keep personal belief systems that are unproven out of a conversation about grains.
The Christians destroyed all the records about Jesus, for obvious reasons.
Quién dice que dios existe? Edúcate, por favor.
Jesus Christ never existed.
@rich You’re wrong, there’s evidence that He did, in fact exist.
hahahaha your comment is hilarius.
He seems to have had an impact, nonetheless. “AD” and all that…
Ok. Grains are bad, too much sugar is bad, a bit of sugar is bad, salt is bad, milk is bad, gluten is bad, egg is bad, meat is bad (acoording to some people), being vegetarian is bad (according to other people), everything you like is bad and what you don’t like, but got used to them, became bad.
The problem is not what we eat but how we eat. How we mentally accept food as a good thing – or not. How we don’t feel guilty when we eat some things, how we start creating all kind of illness just after eating something we think is bad. Ten years ago we used to believe eggs were good for us, now the called modern science tell us they are bad. Everything can be bad if you trully believe they are bad.
I am not saying we should go and eat all the unhealthy food we can find. Of course we want to leave more and more, being able to share life with our grandchildren and, if is possible, with their kids too. But we cannot feel guity for everything people say is bad for you. What is bad for you may be good for me. It’s just the way we think, which way more powerfull than any diet you can find.
Or how would you explain that French people smoke more and still live longer than Americans? or that Italians and Germans drink more and also live longer?
(http://www.unnaturalcauses.org/assets/uploads/file/quiz_answers_only.pdf)
Again, lets pay attention to the way we see things, the way we believe something is bad or not to us. We don’t need to get totally crazy eating junk food, but also there is no point of liiving life when you can’t enjoy an amazing pasta full of grains and a beautiful grass of wine full of sugar. Life is just meant to be enjoyed.
I think we were meant to eat meat, veggies, and fruit, and even some dairy. I don’t think there is anything wrong with eating eggs (mainly because I don’t believe modern science is on our side, and anything approved by the government is a sham and a lie and a way to put more money in their pockets).
Life IS enjoyable without grains. My life is a living HELL with grains.
If you have never felt the feeling of a thousand hot burning sharp razor blades traveling slowly through your intestines, and the sudden diarrhea at the worst possible times, the migraines, the stomach cramping worse than any menstrual cramp I’ve ever had, and constantly feeling nauseated….then you shouldn’t say or assume that life with no grain is not enjoyable, because for some of us it feels like a painful, slow death.
I don’t think we were MEANT for eating anything specific. We have evolved and so our bodies has had more time to adapt to eating meat, veggies and fruit.
What you’ve just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
Very good points;
“ediddy”, there were better, less flamey ways of putting that. Really, though, the fact that the debate is so vitriolic is ridiculous to begin with.
Different people have different dietary tolerances for different things. For instance, I’m apparently one of those 70% or more of people who can tolerate at least small amounts of cereal grain. (Remember: only 1% have celiac and 29% of that study were non-celiac with the signs of resistance showing up; that sounds soooo scary, doesn’t it? Until you realize this means 70% of people don’t have any problem at least passing gluten!)
This doesn’t mean I would force you to eat cereal grain, which you obviously don’t have tolerance for, any more than I would force a Chinese or Japanese person (who are generally lactose-intolerant) to drink a glass of milk.
Likewise, I wouldn’t force my mother to eat the raw tomatoes she gets mouth sores from! The trick is learning the diet that works for YOU, as in individual, to keep you fairly healthy and happy.
For me, a diet low in meat (and usually lean meat at that, since I don’t even LIKE the taste of fat or grease), with some eggs and fish, no white sugar and rare brown sugar (with honey usually as a preferred sweetener if I want it), occasional dairy (mostly in the form of cheese), mostly veggies, fruits, mushrooms and -yes – grains like bread and pasta, while using olive oil or butter for cooking instead of canola oil or margarine (which was NEVER invented for health reasons, you know, it was purely invented as a butter substitute that you could take on sea voyages without spoiling!)… seems to work just fine. For me.
With rare exceptions, I don’t get bowel issues; even without significant exercise (third floor walkup and working on my feet all day makes that difficult to work up to) I’m a healthy weight for my height – about 130 lbs for a female of 5’3″ (used to be about 120-125, but gained some lately because of too much fast food, which is why I’m back to cooking mushroom sautees at home with said olive oil this week :P).
And you know what? Obviously this diet wouldn’t work for you. And that is fine. For you.
But some of us are capable of eating grains on occasion without significant health issues – just like some people are able to eat occasional sweets without gaining ten pounds, or some people can digest false morels (which are, ahem, not good to eat if you don’t have a tolerance).
Nutrition is very often treated as if there’s gotta be a secret to unlock that will magically work for absolutely everyone, when the truth is, it’s EXTREMELY unique to the individual, in part because of the variety of environments humans have evolved in. Everything from food allergies (which can vary by region! French are more likely to have apple allergies, Greeks to have melon allergies, etc.) to diabetes, to metabolic rates, addictive vs. non-addictive personalities, exercise or lack thereof, and immune conditions like celiac, can impact what a person can safely, healthily eat in at least small portions.
This is not surprising, people. Stop acting surprised, or offended, on either end; this is just how evolution WORKS. Some people get the lucky mutations that allow them to take advantage of a new food source, and others don’t. There’s nothing wrong with having it, or with not having it. Either way is normal!
All we do know that can apply to “everyone”, is that too much of anything is going to throw it out of whack (and that “too much” can be a tricky thing to define), processed sugar is a bad idea, and some kind of veggie is probably good to include somewhere.
That’s not a very long list.
Actually, when it comes to eggs, modern science is on our side. It’s been nearly 3 decades since eggs were shown to at least not be harmful to us. Unfortunately they have not been able to break through the propaganda against them, even though the propaganda has long since stopped. I see eggs as beneficial because when people eat eggs for breakfast, they are not eating a bowl of cereal. Now if we could get them to not have toast with those eggs.
How you feel when you eat grains is the way some people, myself included, feel when they eat meat.
Without meat it’s pretty difficult to eat a reasonable amount of calories unless you also consume grains and/or legumes.
Also, last I heard modern science was saying that eggs -are- healthy.
I love your comment
Great( and very valid) comment!
I see this differently.
I don’t care how bad you BELIEVE something is for your body. If the substance in question isn’t bad for the human body, it won’t hurt you.
The power of your MIND is hurting you in such a case. PLACEBO effect!
The proof to all this is in the results. I am going to give up grains and see what the results are. I will see how my body changes in it’s appearance. I will see if I feel better.
I know my father ate tons of candy and tons of bread. He also smoked and didn’t exercise. He is on his deathbed now, ravaged with all kinds of diseases like diabetes, failing kidneys, etc.
I am determined NOT to die suffereing as badly with all that as he is.
I do have to say that the toxic ingredients that are in our processed foods here in the US are not allowed in Europe. The same companies that make our everyday American processed crap foods, make a less processed, non toxic version in Europe. I suspect the cigarette industry does something similar. Why would they do this? They are socialist and their government is responsible for their healthcare. Prevent illness, save money. Here in the “land of the free”, our government and their agencies approved those very same ingredients that are banned in Europe. Everyone gets sick, big corporations such as everyone in the “healthcare” industry, insurance companies, the FDA, etc benefit greatly. Here is just one of several articles that have been written on the subject. http://www.100daysofrealfood.com/2013/02/11/food-companies-exploit-americans-with-ingredients-banned-in-other-countries/
I love your comment!
Yes, we live a stressful life but folks in Japan aren’t exactly stress free and according to the article you linked to they live a lot longer than we do. I have to believe the difference is in what we’re eating.
Many people think European and Mediterranean diets are pastry, pasta and pizza, but those things form a very small part of their meals. With fish, meat and vegetables forming the largest part and grains composing a much smaller part. In the US, thanks to the USDA, for most people, grains compose the major part of their diet.
Scientists have recently stated that in the US, the current generation’s children will be the first to have a shorter lifespan than their parents. That seems incredible with all the medical advances. Heart disease, stroke, cancer and diabetes is increasing at a phenomenal rate. It has to be diet related.
To all of you naysayers, no one has to take the word of someone else. Check your fasting glucose. Do blood tests. See what your insulin levels are, your mineral levels, your homeocystine, your cholesterol level (or are you already on a stain drug). How’s your blood pressure. Then eat Paleo for 3 months, 6 months is better. Then go get those tests done again. Prove it for yourself that this way of eating doesn’t make sense. Those of us who eat this way have already proven it to ourselves that it does make sense. If you haven’t tried it, knocking it doesn’t mean a thing.
Hey, if you have not tried jumping off a cliff from 300 feet without a parachute, “If you haven’t tried it, knocking it doesn’t mean a thing.”
What are we going to do, which most of the people we know and love would probably throw stones as if we tell them not only should they not eat grains, but no nuts and no seeds.
I, fortunately, met Wil Spencer of Body Electrician and I learned from him most of what you share here. I was having unbelievable digestion problems, IBS etc. Spent $1,000s on all manner of probiotics, but when I eliminated the grains etc., with days I saw immediate improvement.
Now I a working on repopulating my gut and restoring it after all the damage I have done for so long.
thanks
I can see where the real problem is.We have very limited choices in an industrial society.Everyone is time starved and grains like corn,rice,potatoes and noodles give us the necessary boost.I still eat fruit,but that is usually for breakfast.I would think expanding the variety of what you’re eating would lead to a healthier life.Problem is most everything is refined and put in bright packages for long life.Real food seems harder to come by everyday.
“Apart from maintaining social conventions in certain situations and obtaining cheap sugar calories, there is absolutely no reason to eat grains.”
This is a presumption based upon the authors (limited) knowledge in relation to all of the effects, energetic and in terms of process that eating a grain has on the body. He just doesnt know all of the reasons TO eat grain. This doesnt mean that he is correct in his presumptions. I will look at each though.
“You need the fiber!”
his retort amounts to because I feel like it and because I said so. One study cited that shows that “high fiber foods (which ones?) cause “banging on the inner lining” This is very abstract to extrapolate that grains must cause “banging” in the intestines because some food classified as “high fibre” (im betting not grains in the study) caused damage in what amounts ? in humans or rats? etc… Flimsy and not a true argument.
His next two assertions are straw men arguments. Sure its possible to eat other food sources. This doesnt mean that its by default more healthy or less especially based upon one persons experience although this does set a good start for a study.
The study would merely reveal the effects of the different diets not weather one is better or worse though as each will have strengths to the others weaknesses. It is the way of things.
Next we have “Toxic anti-nutrients? Do tell.”
Phytic acid is released when soaking grains. So… eating whole soaked grains has not yet been shown in any way to be harmful. There is one suggestion that its possibly harmful to some individuals who may have compromised digestive systems.
He does cite one of my favorite arguments for moving towards fruit based diets for ethical reasons
“Fruits are tasty, nutritious, and delicious so that animals will eat them whole and poop out the seeds, preferably into some fertile soil”
Absolutely.
“Some animals are clearly adapted to grain consumption. Birds, rodents, and some insects can deal with the anti-nutrients. Humans, however, cannot.”
Hmm… I dont know that this suggestion is actually true.
“Lectins are bad. They bind to insulin receptors, attack the stomach lining of insects, bind to human intestinal lining, and they seemingly cause leptin resistance. And leptin resistance predicts a “worsening of the features of the metabolic syndrome independently of obesity”.
What else do they do I wonder? Also are lectins released with soaking? How long does it take for lectins to be released or processed through? But ok on this I will now need to see his studies and how they were conducted and what they really show.
“Gluten may be even worse!”
His reasoning is that there are people who have trouble processing them which leads us back to cause of the weakness as the true focus that needs to be explored. You dont try to dim the sun when you get a sun burn right?
“Phytates are a problem, too, because they make minerals bio-unavailable (so much for all those healthy vitamins and minerals we need from whole grains!), thus rendering null and void the last, remaining argument for cereal grain consumption.”
What else do Phytates do? I am sure if we look more carefully we will find that all of these useless “poisons” have a ntural activities and reasons for their being in the process. I trust mother earth and my own experience over these suggestions based upon really weak scientific cause and effect explanations.
I dont know what anyone would have to gain from framing grains in this manner but my feeling is that this is being planted so to speak.
Is there reason why you would recommend eating grains?
The evidence is right here on this board. People are giving their testimonies and yes grains are not good for us.
I have just been on this plan for the last four days and I can feel the difference (not eating at night, sleeping well, lost 1lb and just feel good).
It works and they only way to know is to try it with:
• No grain
• No sugary drinks
• No smoke
All equal healthy weight loss.
I have been doing this as well for about 4 days now. However, I can not say I feel good! I’ve had a dull headache the day after I started, sweaty and very tired. I suspect that it’s just my body rebelling from the lack of sugar, starch, wheat and grains, and that eventually I will start to feel better.
I will say on a positive note though, I am not always hungry. Generally when I’d eat before I’d be hungry again in an hour. Now however, I eat and am satisfied for hours, sometimes I don’t even need to eat lunch. I am happy about that. I haven’t had any cravings either for sugars and the like.
Those phytates and lectins DO have a purpose in grains. To keep them from being eaten or digested!
Phytates: to make that grain INdigestible, so that when the grains are eaten by birds, they will be pooped out intact. We’d poop them out intact too, if we didn’t grind and cook them, but they will still bind to the minerals in our food and shut down production of pepsin, amylase, and trypsin, 3 different digestive enzymes. These things really don’t want to be digested!
Lectins: Insecticides; they’re poisonous to everything except birds and rodents. While soaking and rinsing does remove some lectins, and more may be inactivated by cooking, much remains.
What’s true for grains here is also true for most seeds and all legumes. They’re =meant= to be indigestible! Only processing makes them edible at all; nothing makes them optimal.
* http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/living-with-phytic-acid
But some of us do okay with grains in our diet; some of us even need some. Grains without gluten are considerably better for us, and wheat is the one to avoid above all. If you do eat it: sprout it, soak it, ferment it. It really makes the difference: if I eat grains I prepare, i don’t have problems. If I eat say, spaghetti, my face is itchy and peeling with red blotches the next morning.
A good place to start: the Weston A. Price Foundation (WAPF) and Nourishing Traditions (by Sally Fallon) practices with regard to grain. =All= grain-eating peoples soaked and/or fermented their grains to reduce the antinutrients. It’s not hard, here’s how:
http://www.westonaprice.org/food-features/living-with-phytic-acid
Try cutting wheat out of your diet, since it’s by far the worst: lectins, phytates, gluten (which is made up of different proteins, any or all of which may induce reactions. When you stop wheat you will experience withdrawal for about a week, as one of the components of gluten (gliadin) literally acts as (no kidding) an opiate. It wasn’t even present in wheat before 1970; it was engineered into the grain. Modern wheat also has double the gluten of the wheat your grandparents ate; no wonder more people are having problems with it! Even if you’re not celiac, you can be intolerant to gluten.
Just try it. Go a month without grains. Or without wheat, at least. See how you feel and go from there. I’ll bet you like the results and are very surprised by what a difference it makes in how you feel!
Wheat was originally domesticated for beer making. Bread was an afterthought and a byproduct of that endeavour. In the form of beer, the wheat was much more digestible and nutritious because of the fermentation process than the way it is typically eaten now.
I don’t follow blogs directed at vegans and try to convince them that they are all demented. I find it odd that so many people who are against the Primal or Paleo diet are skulking around on a blog that is written for those of us who are, or who are interested in living the Primal/Paleo lifestyle. For most of us, we eat this way because we benefit from it. It’s not a fad diet for us. From the comments I’m reading here, it seems like a lot of people must get all their information from blogs and then when they don’t like what they read they demand to see the scientific evidence. All you have to do is open yours eyes and ears. There is a lot of scientific evidence to back up eliminating grains. Dozens of books that have been written on the subject with hundreds of references to studies that have been done. It is true your doctor will not tell you about these studies, in fact will probably not even know about them because their “associations” tell them what to believe. The same is true with most licensed nutritionists. They didn’t earn their license by having unconventional beliefs and they are taught to not see the obvious links between the standard american diet and disease.
Read: Nora Gedgaudis, Primal Body-Primal Mind ;Dr William Davis, Wheat Belly; Melissa Diane Smith, Going Against the Grain; Denise Minger, Death By Food Pyramid. The last one is a very open minded look at the pros and cons of several difference ways of eating. I came to the conclusion that Primal was right for me by doing a lot of reading, not because a blog told me to.
great comments, Sandra 🙂
Most people with a religion feel the need to prosthelytize and many believe that eating meat is morally wrong, just like some religions believe that certain forms of birth control are morally wrong to the point of using deadly force against them.
For example, in my youth in Maryland, condoms could only be sold in restrooms in bars, due I was told to influence from the Roman Catholic Church.
Human adaptibility is why we as a species have been so successful. There seems to be a very wide genetic variation in what foods we can tolerate/thrive on so unfortunately the only way to find out what foods work best for a given individual is trial and error.
I do best on proteins/veggies/moderate fat with some fruit (mostly berries) and Greek yogurt–makes sense given my northern European ancestry. As my ancestors moved north they would have found fewer plants and more animals to eat; adjusting to a higher-protein diet while their skin and eyes faded to adjust to the decreasing amounts of sunlight.
My major grain problem is the hell they play w/my blood sugar; enough to be satisfying and my sugar goes up, up, up. Turns out I was diagnosed w/ a wheat allergy in toddlerhood (that my mother just blew off–she poured so much milk down us that a milk allergy probably would have been “oh, gee, too bad” fatal) and then nobody could figure out the weight problems, skin rashes, and fatigue that have plagued me most of my life. It’s not just gluten, either–tried a couple of things containing millet (a cereal and some baked goods) only to get even more sniffles, itches, rashes, and stomach problems than the wheat. So you never can tell until you try.
So, off the grains for good—missing the legumes, though—my blood sugar liked those. Will see what Primal does for my weight and my blood sugars.
I think the best diet is to eat as many foods that are not processed at all. If they could not eat 20 000 years ago than we shouldn’t eat it. That in my opinion is the best diet.
I am rolling on the floor as I read this, I love it!
Vegetables contain anti nutrients too -.- .. and if you soak rice/legumes you remove most of them.. fermentation over 24 hours can remove over 95%
As I read the comments below I find the talk & different believes void of the fact that we ourselves create sick bodies through our diets and lack of physical activities. Then we try to undo what we created through what seems to be extreme diet measures to us. See at birth the average ( key word) person is breast feed (the intended) or feed a fortified substitute ( uh ohh). As toddlers we began consuming cows milk (not intended for human consumption) to accompany cereal, cookies etc and were given fruits and veggies to consume in between meals in small portions. Our parents are only doing what their parents have done and we do it to our children. It doesn’t make it right. The point is you don’t know what you don’t know. Everyone had good points except for the Jesus isn’t real part. Biblical or not we should not reference the bible unless we fully understand the context in which the passage was said. Grains are hearty and contain many attributes that makes a good staple to withstand famines and drought conditions which we commonly read about in the bible. Today: wheat is used for the very same reasons and way. Norman Borlaug one of several Nobel prize winners for a dwarf wheat to feed starving populations. In that content when you have very little choices to what is going on your plate then you should consume what can provide you with sustenance. But if you have a choice check out combine when you dine.com I have been a health guru and athletic since a very young age and always looking to be at my most optimal level of health as an adult. I do believe “everything in moderation” I also believe our food should sustain us, be satisfying and in some cases be used for medicinal purpose. We
should continuously educate our selfs on gut flora and proper digestion, and natural raw foods purpose therefore we can make good informed decisions about our own diets. God created everything with a purpose which requires study and common since in some cases to understand that purpose. Grains are a common staple for animal feed but hard for humans to digest. Ummm for that reason on the rare occasion if I consume any grain it’s organic, gluten free and the result of my change, no more weekly migraines and daily belly bloat. God bless everyone.
Low carb diet is totally the way to go! It keeps your hormones balanced.
Very well said. When I spoke to one of fellow nurses about my dietary habits and explained that i don’t eat grains or potatoes legumes etc, she said “but how do you get your starches” like it was some sort of required food group. And this from a NURSE. She should know better, but many don’t because they just spit out what they are taught. And therein lies our problem…
That’s because she’s learned it from the doctor. 😉
Well-we are subject to the media, government and big pharma(which has our gvt in its pocket)..I instruct nurses and med students..they are not physiologists. They are not given enough information on what is dietarily necessary. They are preprogramed before entering study to have the same adulterated view of what is “good” and “necessary” for existance. This includes some cancer meds and many medicines overall. Big pharma, plus government control of the FDA and media..hmm..what makes the world go around? Could it be money? Come on-
Thank you, Melissa!! You, for one, are a very aware of what’s going on around you and not hypnotized by our media, government and big industries that capitalize off of the bad health of the public. You also realize the the Federal Reserve is a private banking corporation, not part of the government at all? The Federal Reserve is the puppet master; all of the big industries and the government are far below them. I wonder what their agenda is??? Hmmm, you and I and a few others are well aware but most others are blind to their own demise.
Hmm, like the “alternative” health industry isn’t worth billions of dollars also? Like that whole area isn’t full of quacks and scam artists trying to part the desperate and ignorant from their hard earned money? C’mon yourself.
To be honest you sound a lot like my mum, who didn’t believe in getting pap smears because it’s all about “big pharma” playing on our fears. Hey, she eats all organic, is fit and meditates- what could possibly go wrong?
Now she has stage 3 cervical cancer and wont do the chemo- apparently peroxide and mega vitamin C injections do the same job >:[
People like you who bad mouth modern medicine make me so angry- go live in a third world country and watch your kid die of an infection that a good dose of antibiotics could have fixed, or watch your loved one die in childbirth or get cancer without any access to decent treatment and then whinge about how ~evil~ big pharma and modern medicine are.
You bloody idiot.
You are aware that a doctoral degrees require a compulsory 25hrs of nutrition in between 7-10 years of study. Surveys of American instutions found the majority manage less than 20hrs. Is the suggestion is that Doctors are some sort of authority on nutrition??
Most doctors are non-thinking fools, who only know what they were told in medical school.
Their teachers in medical school, in many cases, were non-thinking fools as well.
Very, very FEW doctors are involved in research.
Some doctors simply look at symptoms and prescribe what they see in a book somewhere.
Doctors have killed more people than you care to count.
Whoa, hold up there. Do you even know how hard it is to get into medical school to begin with? You can’t get in by memorizing things (although it helps) as they place heavy emphasis on critical thinking. Very few doctors are involved in research because a researchers rarely get above 6 figures while doctors get way more usually.
Well how else would they know what disorder/disease you have if you don’t look at the symptoms? Those are the only available sources of information and the so called “books” are thoroughly researched to give the best possible guess with the current set of symptoms.
Finally, yes doctors killed many people. But 99% of them were going to die anyway (1) and people can make mistakes (2). Doctors saved multiple orders of more people than killed them.
I’m sorry, but as I aspire to be a doctor in the near future I will not stand by when I see comments of this nature.
Realize that a lot of these nurses are taking this from actual classes, real professionals and researchers, not reading it online where anybody can post anything quite obviously.
Ummm…well Doctors take about a days worth of nutritional classes in the 4-8 years of medical school. That really isn’t good. Look it up. My husband works at a hospital (security) and has been told how much nutrition classes they’ve had, and they’ve said about 8 hours while they were in medical school. Anything over and above that(for them personally has been little to none), they had to learn on their own. But let me ask you, if you’re not taught to learn about nutrition in school to be a doctor or nurse, then why would you think that’s important to study once out of medical school? You’d probably think, I’ve already been taught what I was suppose to know about the human body, now it’s my job to keep up with the newest drugs coming out, and diseases, not the cause. Because that’s what they teach you in school. They are symptom chasers. I do believe Doctors have they’re place, if you’re having a heart attack, please go see a doctor. But if you have cancer, diabetes, high blood pressure, ect. please contact your local herbal doctor and talk to them about the problem. They will take care of it through natural remides. Also I do suggest coming to this site, and reading the blogs.
How many more hospitals and ER rooms have to be filled, before we get the hint…they don’t know how to cure us. The know how to stick us with needles, and pump us full of drugs our bodies don’t know what to do with. It’s so sad to see. My heart goes out to everyone who takes the Dr.s advice and gets worse. Yes Dr.s have helped people, but if it wasn’t for the conventional wisdom of, you’re sick go see a Dr. we wouldn’t be in that position to be saved. If we just took the time to research, how much greater our lives would be. Yes we’ve had our share of ER visits, my son has a bowl problem, why? Because of his old diet. We’re on a new road, and it’s going to take time, but I’m certain this is the road to recovery. Thanks Mark for posting this, and all the others. Everyone has given me much food for thought.
Dr’s may only get about 8 hours of nutrition training but nurses get an entire semester, we know better.
oh well said! I always trust the advice of security guards over a medical professional.
Everyone! Relieve the global strain on health systems while solving the overpopulation issue, see security guards and herbal charlatans for all your ailments!
Cancer and ‘herbal remedies’ should *never* be used in the same sentence. Anybody recommending such tripe should be exorcised, for they surely have a demon living inside their noggin.
this isn’t so much a response to esther as it is to ‘littleone’ and ‘tyler’.
it’s so disappointing to see such unenlightenment from people that have managed to stray so radically from the diet ‘prescribed’ by the government and health ‘authorities’ – the same people that want to prescribe you a drug for every ailment, needless to say those which include the ‘conventional’ cancer treatments.
if you’ve got enough stomach to make it to the end, i think you’ll be Very surprised with what you find and maybe, just maybe, you’ll be the ones telling all Your family, friends, colleagues, teachers, acquaintances, and anybody you bump into on the street about Budwig, Hoxsey, Pauling, Gerson, Simoncini etc. Some of which happened to be awarded the Nobel Prize for their work, only to thereafter have their studies obstructed by the the major pharma-corps of their day.
Aside from the fact that Esther did not say ‘herbal rememdies’, she said ‘NATURAL remedies’, if you had done any research on ‘natural cancer cures’ the way you had done on the paleo-diet, you’d know that these cures are based on diet, not ‘herbs’.
Having said that, do not under estimate the value/power of ‘herbs’. I’m sure i read an article on here where Mark promotes the use of fresh ‘herbs’ and spices? Definitely better used as preventative medicine rather than remedies but even mushrooms have been shown, in actual Scientific studies, carried out with ‘licensed’ medical professionals and doctors, to suppress the growth of cancer.
You have so much faith that we evolved to live on a certain diet, that this diet can reverse diseases which kill many and optimize how we function as animals, why is it so far fetched that we evolved to ‘heal’ ourselves with the [natural] medicines available to us directly from the environment around us as opposed to the medicines only available to us several hundred thousands years later, on the other side of an industrial revolution/pharma-cornucopia?
lol, with all my ranting, i forgot to post the link [that i hope Everyone will have the stomach, and the patience, to watch to the end – i.e. part 6]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DW-twcOQcE
of course, same applies here. don’t believe everything you read/hear/see. do the research yourself.
Stent: 8 hrs means 8 credit hours which is usually two semesters. One semester is 3 to 4 credit hrs.
Chiropractors take an entire year of nutrition courses… Not all Dr’s are created equal…
Just so you know, speaking from experience, doctors aren’t stupid. There are definitely some bad ones, but most of them really are trying to help. I’ve been lucky enough to get a couple of true professionals. Yes, they have stuck me with needles, and yes they prescribe medicine, but it all has a legitimate purpose. I’m diabetic, and without my doctor I’d be dead. I wouldn’t trust anyone else (outside myself and my family) more with my life. I know you are probably coming from a valid history of bad experience with doctors, but I just wanted to defend them a little bit. You just have to find the good ones.
I agree. Dr.’s are scaling their patients so they have to return, its all about the money now..
your so stupid
I agree with what you share about food. I am eating a paleo diet and feel great. Please don’t direct people to “herbal doctors” stating they will “take care of it” for serious medical and health issues. Sometimes they can, my friend died foregoing traditional western medicine treatments for herbs. Sometimes herbs work; great! You can’t deny that chemo has saved thousands of lives. It’s a delicate choice; herbal doctors are a great source toward recovery from treatments such as chemo.
My dad died just over a year ago from cancer ALL THANKS to the “dr’s” for killing him. We found out to late he could have naturally been cured. I am 32 and both parents are dead from cancer. I have learned a great lesson though, and I know my parents are happy about that. But to know the could have been saved is such a sad thing and I try to tell as many as I can that not all doctors are there to “help” you, and to do your research first. Anything you want is right here online or get a natural doc. Cancer docs are a scam EAT more milkshakes, high fat food, and here eat this candy while you get your chemo and don’t forget to grab a free soda while your at it. I know its not my fault but I listened to the doc when he said those things to my dad and I gave them to him not knowing it was only feeding his cancer. After chemo sometimes he would need a $6,000 shot to bring his immune system back up. WONDER WHY??? I sure do feel bad I did not look into it further on my own before it was to late. It has changed my husband and my life big time though and I am very thankful for that. One of the best things I learned is about the ozone machine and everyone should get one and use it!
Thanks for your post Esther:)
Ozone is a highly reactive molecule. The reason these generators are marketed as “odor” removers is that odors are organic compounds that bind to our receptors in the nasal passages, and ozone removes pieces (molecules) from these compounds. Ozone does the same thing to pieces of your lung cells.
WELL SAID SARABEAR!
You are correct. In many cases, doctors treat SYMPTOMS, not the cause.
You’d be surprised that in Cuba, there is more emphasis on the causes of things than just treating a sympton. Being they are a 3rd world country, we here in the U.S. could do much better if politics and PROFIT$ weren’t an issue!
Haha… 🙂 Research? From what!?! Websites like this? Written from the biased and close-minded view of one person. Research is going out into the field and finding your OWN results, with logical and scientific backgrounds, not copying it off cheap crappy websites like this.
“training” or “indoctrination by the meat and dairy industry”
We’ve done the studies, we’ve seen the evidence.
Perhaps it was an older nurse? or doctor? do you really think that once they graduated 20-30 years ago they kept up on the research?
I have a B.Sc. Neuroscience, and M.Sc. Physical Therapy… yes, I’m a health professional. And I did LOTS of study on nutrition, biochemistry, exercise physiology. And this post makes sense.
So…. I guess I didn’t pay attention to those “real” professionals and researchers, right?
The YouTube video above has been removed by the user. Why is that?
Dear Melissa, miss registered dietitian,
I am also one of those who have read tons of studies/books on the subject of nutrition, though I am not as fancy as a “registered dietitian”. Despite that, I will now do my best to obliterate your naive comments about paleo and grains.
You say there’s no evidence that those without gluten sensitivity or intolerance. Dr. Fasano says you’re wrong. http://chriskresser.com/pioneering-researcher-alessio-fasano-m-d-on-gluten-autoimmunity-leaky-gut
Now, this is an interview, however Dr. Fasano is the one who discovered that no matter who you are, 100% of human beings release zonulin in response to gluten, specifically the gliadin component of the protein. Zonulin regulates intestinal permeability, so that when it is released by your enterocytes it allows particles through your intestines and into the bloodstream. Not only gluten ends up in there, but also foreign and undigested molecules (especially hard-to-digest proteins like prolamines that are highly present in wheat). Your body then has a brief immune response, creates antibodies, and mops up the invading molecules. A few minutes, no harm done. But what if you consume gluten hundreds, thousands of times? Multiple times a day? Chronic zonulin release will build up the immune response to these foreign molecules. If the foreign molecule has a piece of it that looks like the beta cells in your pancreas, your body will mistakenly attack your pancreas. You now have type 1 diabetes. If it looks like the myelin sheath in your brain, you will develop multiple sclerosis. If you get cat saliva or flower pollen in your bloodstream, you will develop allergies.
So, miss registered dietitian, how do you like autoimmune diseases? Oh, and all of this is on top of the fact that grains suck nutritionally compared to meat and vegetables. You said something like oh of course a salad is more nutritious than grains – how about 8oz of steak? Look it up and do some real research, eh?
What is this, amateur hour? Mark isn’t a genius, he just compiles information from the few doctors and PhDs who know what they’re talking about. If you think I’m wrong, show me the studies, and I’ll show you why you’re incredibly wrong. As always, have nice day.
I am new so be gentle but I read some of this stuff and wonder why you people instantly buy into what is said. A lot of crap is out on the market. You can not believe everything you read. You should do your own research and find 3 reliable trusted sources to back up anything that Mark or anyone else says before you but into it. Just my opinion. How do you know what he says is true? Just because he read or conducted a study you do not know the confines of the study etc… spend some time before you make rash statements.
I’ve done the research. I’ve also applied it. You can’t deny the evidence I have – a more than 90 pound weight loss with no effort, cravings, or hunger; cessation of migraines, IBS and arthritis; normalization of blood sugars and cholesterol levels; increased energy; better sleep – the list goes on and on. I didn’t “instantly buy into” anything.
3 reliable trusted sources? Let me introduce you to the shelf of about thirty books on diet and nutrition that I’ve read (and I know there’s thirty or so, because I just unpacked them from moving boxes in my new place). I’m not an idiot and neither are the other folks who’ve taken up Mark’s way of eating. We’re the smart ones, and we’ll live longer and healthier than anyone else on the planet.
My statements are founded in science and my own experience over the last eleven months. They’re the farthest thing from “rash.”
Completely unwarranted attack, Griff. Your anecdote isn’t a counterargument to what sara suggested. You don’t represent the people she’s talking about; you’ve done your research. Are you everyone that has read, is reading, and will read this article? No.
“We’re the smart ones, and we’ll live longer and healthier than anyone else on the planet.”
Congratulations.
“My statements are founded in science and my own experience over the last eleven months.” As Erin writes below, a lot of the science on nutrition takes a long time to pan out. I bet a lot of your 30 books were based one epidemiological studies, most of which do anything but provide proof contributing to the efficacy of a particular way of eating.
*shrug* Whatever, “empty”. In addition to the science, I’ve also got the proof of my own experience – so if you choose to eat things that will poison you, that is so beyond “not my problem” that it’s not even in this solar system.
The scientific experiment of the last sixty years – of low-fat high-carb eating and health – has FAILED. The science of the last sixty years shows this conclusively. Our grandparents and their parents and their grandparents, all the way back to Grok, ate the way that Primal people do now, and they all lived into their 80s and 90s, usually in at least decent health. Our parents, on the other hand, ate the low-fat high-carb way, and started dropping like flies in their 40s and 50s from heart disease, diabetes, cancer, and stroke. Hmmm. I see a connection there.
There is zero proof that this newfangled low-fat high-carb method of eating works, and a metric asston of proof that it doesn’t, if you’ll open your eyes and LOOK.
And if you want non-epidemiological studies, start with the Eades’ Protein Power, Anthony Colpo’s The Great Cholesterol Con, and Taubes’ Good Calories, Bad Calories. All of them are chock-full of peer-reviewed, non-epidemiological studies. That should cheer you up.
Woah, Mark, sorry; did I catch you on the wrong day?
I’m not sure what you’re arguing here. I never criticized what was written above, nor did sara. She just said this: be a little critical before you just accept it as truth.
Despite your inability to properly read my posts, I’ll bite.
-“Primal” people? Can you define what this means?
– 3 books, out of 30, that’s 10% of your books.
“Our grandparents and their parents and their grandparents, all the way back to Grok, ate the way that Primal people do now, and they all lived into their 80s and 90s, usually in at least decent health. Our parents, on the other hand, ate the low-fat high-carb way, and started dropping like flies in their 40s and 50s from heart disease, diabetes, cancer, and stroke. Hmmm. I see a connection there.”
You think the life expectancy of our parents was 40 YEARS LOWER than that of our grandparents? lol wut? Crazy much?
“Our grandparents and their parents and their grandparents, all the way back to Grok, ate the way that Primal people do now, and they all lived into their 80s and 90s, usually in at least decent health. Our parents, on the other hand, ate the low-fat high-carb way, and started dropping like flies in their 40s and 50s from heart disease, diabetes, cancer, and stroke. Hmmm. I see a connection there.”
Primal, schmimal. The primal diets may have been great for people who were active on the farm or the factory all day, but these days most people are anything but. The other consideration is the fact that everything is heavily processed. Even produce for goodness sake! For every healthy new diet that becomes trendy (in the sense of eating better—not losing weight) there’s five-gazillion different processed foods out there and most of the population in the US is living it.
And as far as that low-fat/high-carb diet goes, my father-in-law is ALIVE, because his once “primal” diet (high protein, high fat) got changed when he hit his 40s/50s to the low-fat, high carb diet you are speaking of. His father has a heavy-duty heart attack at 65. FIL had a very mild one at 62 and is doing great now at 70 (granted he needs to get out of the house, but that’s a whole other issue).
I don’t agree grains are evil. However, I bet they are very overused in diets. Anything can be horrible for you if that’s *all* you eat. Balance is important.
That said, I plan to be switching our bread to Trader Joe’s Quinoa bread this year. It’s relatively inexpensive compared to the higher quality breads (like Pepperidge Farm or Arnold), it’s packed with nutrients, and it’s quiet tasty and soft.
Thank you! The internet is a good place to get random ideas to make you think. HOwever, it should not be a source of hard and fast rules for anything. Go to the sources, whether diet, history, religion or politics~ick, for your information. And by the by, doctors, nurses & all people in general are characterized both by the diligent and the slackers. It’s our~sick~ so called ‘health’care reimbursement system that waits until people get ill in order to recieve funding to treat. See: Congress subcommittees. The system need to change to a true HEALTHcare system that promotes health~not just treat the illness that errupts from our poor uninformed eating & lifestyle choices.
Listen to this person – do your own research before buying into what anyone else tells you. I am a dietitian and there is absolutely NO research out there from any real source that supports or can even give you a reason not to eat gluten or grains unless you have a gluten intolerance or allergy. Yes, of course a salad full of veggies will have more vitamins, minerals, and even fiber (though it will have different vitamins and minerals), but that just proves this guy couldn’t find a better argument so he wrote something that is obviously true. Also, how far out of date is this guy? The government does not even use a pyramid any more. It’s now a plate because the government did not want people eating so many grains and the pyramid sent the wrong message. Search REAL nutrition journals, such as the Journal of the Academy of Nutrition and Dietetics or Food and Nutrition for answers to his questions. Do your own research and talk to a Registered Dietitian yourself!
Well, one of the things I think about is how sick we are today. We’ve got all these government recommendations that are supposed to keep a person healthy and they don’t work.
Don’t even mention FDA, which is a throughly corrupt organization.
I will see what benefit I get from avoiding grains. That will be proof or no proof to me.
I follow a food plan free of grains and other “conventional” starches. I’m a nurse practitioner and have a dietician friend that eats the same way. My husband is a physician and sees no need for grains in the diet either. NOTHING I was taught in “actual classes” said that grains were needed for good health; it was just part of the goverment generated food pyramid. Many things we were taught in school were based on tradition, not hard science.
I have been doing a lot of reading on the subject lately. So far, I think the Gary Taubes books are the best for presenting the actual science and a great discussion of the history and the evolution politically of the “low-fat, high carb” diet being supposedly healthy. It is quite eye-opening of an indictment of public health policies being controlled by a few powerful researchers, supported by pharma and big food industries. Biologically humans should be eating meat and vegetables, and perhaps a few fruits. The biochemical reactions that digest food and produce energy and fat in our bodies are based on it. Yes, our bodies do adapt to higher levels of carbs, but at a great cost.
And then you can look at the flip side, the failure of these high carb, low fat diets to work – diabetes at an all time high, obesity at an all time high. Simply restricting calories but continuing to eat high carb, even supposedly healthy whole grain high carb, DOES NOT WORK. And the biochemical studies show us why. We were designed to be meat/flesh eaters. I wish it wasn’t true, I was veggie for a long time, but watching my blood sugar gradually rising, my BP gradually rising, my weight gradually rising despite eating healthy and exercising, made me look at it openly. And it is WORKING. I have lost 20 lbs and FEEL more energetic. And I was not sick before. Really, do the research with and open mind and you will be astonished and angry at what you find.
I had the exact same thought.
Because anything taught in “actual classes” is automatically true? And anything online is inherently untrustworthy? That’s a facile presumption. Are my free online classes from MIT educationally worthless because they’re free and online?
As was pointed out elsewhere — medical professionals do get some nutritional information, but it (clearly!) isn’t good information. So much for the vaunted supremacy of the classroom.
The internet is chock-full of scientific, medical, and educational goodness. You don’t have to go into horrible debt to educate yourself — any halfway decent autodidact will get twice the education of someone just sitting in a class, uncritically taking in and regurgitating the answers on demand.
Well – did you see this article? – Most medical schools do not meet the min. 25 hrs of rec. nutrition training. http://bit.ly/9b9DLn
So, as a 2nd year medical student, I’d just like to say I had 2 months of clinical nutrition. And if you’re appalled at that, you should also be appalled by the fact that we covered immunology in 2 weeks, microbiology in a month and a half, and genetics in a month. (Although I’d also like to impress upon you the intensity and amount of material that is covered in every hour of class time. Undergrad this ain’t.) There is so much to learn in medical school that it’s impossible to sit in a classroom and absorb it all in the four years we have. That’s why a huge bulk of our learning takes place on the floors during our second two years of training. It’s unfair to say that just because it sounds like we haven’t had much class time spent in a particular field, doesn’t mean we come out unqualified boobs (though from the looks of these posts, I might find quite a few people who disagree with me on that).
I will freely admit that doctors (as far as I’ve observed, and from what I’ve gathered talking to a close friend who is a clinical nutritionist) don’t consult nutritionists often enough and are, in fact, underinformed about the current research in nutrition. However, if you’ve ever looked at the peer-reviewed literature on nutrition, you would see that it is often conflicting, and most real, firm evidence takes a very long time to pan out. I would also point out that we’re taught time and again that that eating less, eating less junk (in general), and exercising are really the best ways to improve your health (and for the love of God, stop smoking!). So might I be so bold as to suggest that your health improvements are simply due to the fact that you’ve changed to a healthier lifestyle overall? (That it’s not just the grains?)
Erin,
Hi, I’m also a medical student and was wondering your thoughts on Primal Blueprint, if you’re doing it, and if so how it’s fit into the crazy schedules we have?
Hope you don’t mind me contacting you. I just found this site yesterday and I wanted some input from someone who understands the demands of med school. Thanks! 🙂
dhknobe@gmail.com
I’m not an RN or a doctor.
Having the letters MD, RN, etc after your name or being a nutritionist, or even being a doctor who is well-versed in nutrition is all fine and dandy. In order to truly understand nutrition, you have to be well versed in the digestive processes as well.
Scenario:
You have a plant-based diet, that is low/no fat and high carb, largely based around grains. This diet has been shown to reverse heart disease, diabetes, cancer, arthritis, yada, yada, yada.
You have grain free diets (there are several versions, not just the one mentioned in this blog). These diets have been shown to reverse heart disease, cancer, diabetes, arthritis, auto-immune disorders, asthma, allergies (food and environmental), adhd, autism, yada, yada, yada.
You have two diets, that are on complete opposite ends of the spectrum, that have yielded similar results. Why is that?
Because you can’t have your cake and eat it too. The body isn’t capable of digesting animal protein and grains at the same time. They require two completely different digestive processes, and your body will always go for the grains first because they’re the single most difficult food source to digest. Then your digestive system gets confused, because it has to switch gears to digest the animal protein. The typical American diet constantly mixes the two, which confuses and overloads the digestive system and it gets burned out. When you continually stress out your digestive system, it will then cause serious damage to your digestive tract(this damage can be fixed, if you can guess how…).
You can’t have animal protein AND grains. You will kill yourself, eventually, if you do. This is why both types of diets yield the same results. Grain free diets are much more compatible with people who have gastrointestinal problems. In addition to that, grain free diets are much more compatible with people who’s health problems are *caused* by gastrointestinal problems. Yes, gastrointestinal problems can have very serious, very far reaching effects, including making you susceptible to things like cancer, heart disease, auto-immune diseases and even schizophrenia.
Oh, one more thing. Fruit uses a third digestive process, so it should never be combined with animal protein and/or grains. And veggies require very little effort to digest, and they aid the digestive process, so you can eat them with anything.
Raven, are you implying that your digestive tract can somehow figure out what it’s digesting, and change its chemistry accordingly? By what mechanism does it accomplish such a feat? Where did you hear all this business about gastrointestinal confusion? I’d like to hear what these different “digestive processes” are. Does your stomach have different acids that it secretes if it somehow knows it’s eating a vegetable, as opposed to a fruit? Does your intestinal lining change the way it absorbs nutrients based on what you’ve just eaten? I see many wild claims in your post without a shred of explanation or evidence. Please, correct me. If I’m wrong, I’d love to know. That’s what science is all about!
It is well established that carbohydrates push up insulin levels, some more than others, but they all do it, to a level where it is chronically high. This is not good for anyone. But because of genetic variation in people, some handle it better than others, so some appear not to have any issues with it. But over the course of a lifetime, it is cumulative damage and it is NEVER beneficial.
Hi Mark!
My family has been on paleo for some time now and I can’t begin to tell you how many amazing turnarounds in health we have all experienced, you know, those little irritating ‘things’ that you just tend to put up with!
We turned to paleo after several years of research on my daughter’s health issue, an issue that was not addressed by any of the health professionals we visited here in Australia. We tried all sorts of dietary changes, but paleo was the one that effected the quickest and most amazing results.
Just recently my husband had his annual medical check up (for no other reason than it’s something that he has always done!). His doctor told him that whatever he was doing, he should keep doing! Interestingly, when he told him that his diet was now grain-free and processed-food-free, his face lit up and he told him that he should spread the news. If only it were that easy!
I am a teacher and I feel a certain despair as I watch children exist on pre-packaged junk! And let me tell you, their behaviour matches the amount of junk they eat! Some children have as many as six bars of chocolate in their lunch boxes, often in place of actual food. School canteens here in Australia are nothing short of a national disgrace. Time will prove that we are on the right track. Sadly, it may be too late for these kids!
LOL Raven.
You’re close, so close, but yet so so far. Grain and animal proteins all contain amino acids, of which there are 20 essentials, which are all the same. The only difference is the order, which control protein folding/morphology.
You can eat grain/meat/fruit in the same meal, and digest them all. Well, by digest them all, I mean digest the meat and fruit because it’s hard to digest proline-rich amines and fiber in grains, so you won’t really be digesting much of that… But good try.
Vegetables are one of the hardest food groups to digest, for all mammals. Herbivores have extremely long digestive tracts in order to extract all of the nutrients from the cellulose-rich vegetables, which are hard to break down.
Meat is easy to digest, because it’s just animal tissue. Starchy vegetables like rice and potatoes are easy to digest as well.
I applaud the effort, but please read some more before misleading innocent newbies about what their meal composition can and cannot consist of.
You said it buddy. You’re a lobbyist.
I’m an RN. Here’s a little info for you. Take care.
“Phytic acid, aka phytate, aka IP-6, is one of the most powerful antioxidants found in foods. Some nutritionally-oriented cancer researchers think that IP-6 is probably the most powerful natural anti-cancer sustances. IP-6 is found in grains, beans, nuts & seeds. Wheat is especially high in this cancer fighter.”
“Phytic acid works differently than other antioxidants. Most antioxidants circulate in the bloood, stopping free radicals there. Phytate has the unique ability to work inside your cells, stopping free radicals that are formed duringthe normal process of cell metabolism.”
I’m not an RN.
I think ingested antioxidants don’t hold a candle to our endogenous antioxidants, and in fact researchers have shown shoveling in the plant stuff down-regulates production of the home-grown gold.
Catalase, superoxide dismutase and glutathione peroxidase are local antioxidant enzymes produced where they are needed, when they are needed by a cell which needs them to run its power plants safely.
Additionally, I think it’s folly to broadly paint anti-oxidants as “good” and free radicals as “bad.”
When mitochrondia get hit by enough free radicals it’s a signal to increase production of our own antioxidants.
When poster G writes “Phytate has the unique ability to work inside your cells, stopping free radicals that are formed during the normal process of cell metabolism” — methinks that’s not a good thing
Mehitabel is right, and House you’re usually so smart on your show…
Free radicals are made every single time you consume food and process it. Carbohydrate metabolism actually increases free radical proliferation due to the ratio of NADH:FADH2 required for the electron transport chain. And yet the Okinawans of Japan have a high-carb diet and live quite awhile, without much free-radical induced aging, so it is possible that natural free-radical production from organic-style starchy vegetables is NOT an evil thing. That being said, I don’t think that it’s an issue if phytate works as an antioxidant against natural free radicals – it would just mean lower production of endogenous free radicals would be necessary. That being said….
Phytic acid in grains sucks, but rocks in vegetables. See here: http://thatpaleoguy.com/2011/10/06/phytic-acid-and-digestive-enzyme-blockade/
There ARE some antioxidant properties, but you can get antioxidants from veggies without the metal-chelating effects of phytic acid in grains, which were already nutritionally sparse to begin with..
So nope, paleo is still winning. Go fish.
Yeah. We wouldn’t need to fight cancer if we didn’t digest grains.
I am a metabolic biochemist and as you will be aware, there are many potent antioxidants stored within foods, the most potent being polyphenols found in cocoa and green tea. These have been proven in many medical journals to be of the most potent. I even personally conducted a studeny which found they were effective against glioblastoma brain tumour cells. So, the point of my reply?! We definitely shouldn’t be pointing to grains where cancer prevention is concerned. As discussed by Mark Sisson and by myself later on this feed, grains cuasing chronically high insulin levels indirectly leads to a whole host of ilnesses including cancer itself as a result of of ischaemic vascular disease.
Todd, perhaps you should do a little research yourself. Start with Good Calories-Bad Calories by Gary Taubes…investigate the entire bibliography and substantiate your stand on grains point-by-point; a tip… you will NOT be able to do it. Historical scientific evidence supports that agricultural societies have steadily declined in health and increased in obesity and diseases of Western Culture. You, like so many other absolutely refuse to admit you have been hoodwinked by the government, Ancel Keyes….must I continue? I think not.
People in Asia/Japan (where I live) eat rice/carbs at almost every meal, live the longest of anyone everywhere (Japan has the highest longevity rates) and seem to have very few health problems. Of course, lung and colon cancer are high, but generally, carbs/starches are a large part of their daily diet. So…..I’m just saying: this is all a bit confusing. How does anyone explain the discrepancy of an Asian diet with carbs still produce such long lifespans?
Japan eats a lot of fish (omega-3), and eats many more natural forms of carbohydrates such as rice and sweet potatoes, which are starchy vegetables and are not toxic grains chock-full of antinutrients and gluten (which is an issue even if you’re not gluten sensitive due to zonulin increasing intestinal permeability).
High carb diets inherently cause more free radical production during cellular metabolism which may explain the higher rates of lung/colon cancer (or maybe it’s smoking/pollution? I haven’t looked at that data or other factors). Asians therefore may eat similarly in terms of carbohydrate intake to Americans at the moment, but the QUALITY of the food is much different. The omega-3 rich seafood focus may be offsetting the overuse of omega-6 rich, inflammation-promoting vegetable oils (which both cultures use too often now).
The more active and lean you are, the better your insulin sensitivity and therefore ability to adapt to high loads of carbohydrates. The combination of quality carbs (especially traditionally prepared by soaking which removes phytic acid) + lots of walking may be a uniquely healthful part of Japanese longevity.
Japanese and Chinese also eat stripped rice and usually not brown rice. So in the context of phytic acid, it’s not the same as whole grains and brown rice which are pushed here in the US as the preferred types. Well, this is what I have heard- that the anti-nutrients are mostly found n the casing of the whole grains and brown rice. Funny I have a chart from a study published in The American Journal of Clinical Nutrition and although brown rice produces less of an insulin spike, it’s really not much lower than white rice. So we have been told to prefer brown rice, but as far as I am concerned, it a load of bull. It really does not do much as far as insulin and is more restrictive in absorbing minerals- minerals being one of the main reasons to eat brown rice. I am not debating with anyone here, but since Asia and rice were brought up under a post that mentions the anti-nutrients in grains and rice I thought I would mention these things. As far as my diet I have a couple of main rules. Anything good for bones and teeth is good. Anything bad for teeth and bones cannot be good. I do Paleo but I add pastured butter and cheese. Before this, I was eating little meat and no eggs, no cheese, no fish, and no butter. My teeth feel a lot stronger now. I can tell the difference.
Hmmm whell it seems that all the no-grainers are a bit sarcastic and cold. I knew guy who ate just like this and he was a pure Power Trip 24/7; he was a big and lean healthy-looking guy, but not mentally!! VERY anxious and Bipolar. I just want to say that grains actually increase and maintain seratoninn levels (the happy chemical) while meat will actually lower it somewhat. And everyone will die one day. I TRULY believe that eating bread will NOT poison you, trust me. 😉 I have tried this no-grain diet and it made me VERY bipolar. But I’ve realised its not about how long you live, but HOW you live. I would rather focus on being happy and healthy so that I can help others do the same! Instead of obsessing about my diet. And btw I am a very healthy lady, have always been on the slim side, and very happily eat my way through the high whole grains and fruits, low meat diet 😉 and I understand that what is not good for 1 percent of the population with celiac disease is pretty beneficial to the rest of the population
Bipolarism isn’t caused by not eating grains, it’s a genetic disorder…
Bipolar disorder isn’t caused by genetics. It’s a MENTAL disorder and technically ANYONE is a risk to be diagnosed with it.
Genetics do SUPPOSEDLY create a higher risk to develop in those whose families have known cases of mental illnesses. Results linking it to purely genetics have never been completely conclusive due to never being able to replicate results.
It’s just one of the few items that can affect and cause the development in individuals. Others causes are psychological being from chemical imbalances to structural imperfections of the brain and could even include damage caused from drug use. The other being environmental(Where they grew up, parental style, traumatic events in past)
The biggest thing one needs to learn to do when they are diagnosed with manic-depressive disorder is regulation. You learn to probably regulate everything. You get into a routine. Any rapid changes to these routines can cause a downward or upward spiral into mania or depression. Nutrition is one of most important factors! The fact that hunger and anxiety both cause the same exact symptoms on your bodies even shows this.
So yes, food can in fact have an impact on someone who is living with bipolar disorder without the proper nutrition or a rather sudden diet change can cause you to have an episode.
My knowledge comes from the fact that I, myself, am manic depressive and have taken classes to allow me to learn how to properly handle my situation. Through that learning and understanding, I am able to go without my medication, which is I’m highly against.
Please, educate yourself before being a dick online or someone else may just come along correct you.
Drugs like opium also make you feel good. gluten and some of the other proteins in wheat and grans can actually fit into the receptors in the brain for this. Perhaps not such a good “high” after all. There actually have been a few studies where schizophrenia symptoms were reduced by a gluten free diet. You should really look and understand the biochemistry of what happens when carbs are eaten at a high rate, and what chronically high insulin levels do to your body over a lifetime. It isn’t pretty and sometimes it is subtle so you don’t see it until you have diabetes or some other health damager.
You bring up a very good point that is outside of the general discussion here. That’s ok, I will comment on it.
We are ALL going to die one day. Whether you believe that is good or bad makes no difference.
YOU ARE GOING TO DIE. I see that as a good thing, because I know there is a spirit inside us that lives forever. Death is the end of our Earthly existence, but not our endless existence.
We are just so distracted by this modern sick society. We are taught to FEAR DEATH.
The point is: Living healthy in this existence is better then being sick and suffering greatly in this existence.
I have no clue if this approach to diet will lengthen my life. In my view that’s not the point. The point is making the best of this existence. Good health will make it better.
Sigh.. will these people ever stop with these posts? I’ll try to be nice just for you Lauren…
Carbohydrates do increase serotonin synthesis. This is fairly benign, ala Thanksgiving dinner sleepyness/contentment. Yet you forgot to mention that serotonin and dopamine are antagonistic, and that upping serotonin will lower your dopamine, which can cause depression and mobility issues. Sounds like a catch-22 of depression with low serotonin or dopamine, eh? But how about balancing the see-saw so that both are in moderate amounts so that you aren’t depressed?
Bread WILL poison you, it’s just a matter of dose. A little bit of phytic acid can be beneficial (from vegetables), but a lot of it (from grains) is a definite negative. I don’t care what you believe, show me the double-blind placebo-controlled study that proves what you believe. I am focusing on being happy by not obsessing about diet beyond “grains, legumes, and most dairy sucks”. It’s not that much to ask.
As for your bipolar response to the diet… I’d need to know details. There is a low-carb flu that can occur in the first 1-2 weeks due to metabolic down-regulation of carb metabolism (and up-reg of fat). There is anecdotal/almost-close-enough-to-be-true evidence of withdrawal symptoms from wheat restriction due to exorphins (see post: is wheat addictive).
You may be slim, but people would be slimmer if they improved their insulin sensitivity and up-regulated their fat metablism by eating more fat and fewer carbs. 2/3 of america does not share your slimness, so please keep a much more open mind in the future and try to help people rather than touting your own results as beneficial for all. Lastly, you missed the part about gluten sensitivity in 30% of people and zonulin release potentially causing autoimmunity in 100% of people, didn’tcha?
It’s fine if you aren’t as passionate about nutrition research as I am. But for your own sake, if you don’t want to look it all up, take my advice and follow the diet for your life, tweaking starchy carb intake with activity level and leanness. Good hunting.
“BTW, paleolithic tribes did not live past 35 years of age and did not live long enough to develop heart disease and colon cancer.”
Maybe because of the paleolithic tribes diet their bones appear to be 35 years old being compared to modern mans bones. Perhaps they lived much longer and healthier then we do today.
lol, That’s not how carbon-dating works.
Not even just carbon-dating; more like tree rings, IIRC. Your bones’ internal structure is something that changes over time, no? But you have a record of your whole life in there. For instance, calcium absorption gets more difficult as you age, leading to more brittle bones, and your inner bone structure is also impacted by early environment, leaving clues to it. Likewise, a rough guide is teeth; while there is some variance (both my 12yr molars and wisdom teeth were 3 years “late”), on average, certain teeth come in at certain ages. If some corpse still has baby teeth, or never developed wisdom teeth, it’s unlikely they died of old age.
Another note: bones don’t “appear” younger than they are… they can appear OLDER, if you are nutritionally deficient or spend a lot of time in outer space (because they don’t build up well unless they have the stress of gravity playing on them), but not younger.
It’s untrue that paleolithics NEVER lived past 35, but it’s also untrue that they had long life expectancies, even if you took out deaths at birth. Why? Because they didn’t know what we know about say, infectious diseases. They didn’t have antibiotics or immunizations to prevent or kill of pathogens; they didn’t recognize that regular bathing is a good thing; regular handwashing before meals or medical treatments wasn’t even thought of before the past few centuries. Hell, they didn’t even have toilet paper yet, or flush toilets, and in may cases probably didn’t realize the difference between potable and unpotable water; drank right out of rivers, which they also shat in.
They DID lead a more active lifestyle though, with exercise but less back-breaking labor than farming, and more diverse foods; that’s just a given when the option is “put all your effort into farming for a handful of plants, or hunt and gather for anything you can find”.
Another difference between hunters and gatherers and agriculturists; population and life stages. Hunters and gatherers, because of lower caloric intake, have fewer children, and more years in between them, whereas agricultural families tend to, between nutrition and necessity, pop out a massive number of children and then the mom ends up menopausal by 30, assuming she survived having a dozen babies.. which she may well not have, considering they didn’t even realize they should wash their hands before handling the newborn or the still-bleeding mama. All of which is pretty nasty, but not how modern developed countries work; most of the overpopulation issues are in countries like India or China, where there are large poor, rural segments of the population that pop out babies like crazy.
It is true that there was a decline in height and a rise in problems with say, the spine, with transition to agriculture; but this has long since evened out in developed countries especially, as framing practices became more efficient, and was always more likely to effect the peon farmer than say, his chief. The main thing that’s reversing it now, adding obesity to our health problems among other things, is the rise of processed sugar in the general diet (which is also rotting the teeth at a much faster rate to boot).
Really, ANY diet is going to be healthier if it just cuts out the nutritionally unnecessary sugar and adds some activity like gentle walking or swimming – things the more active of our ancestors did on a daily basis.
Longevity data tend to be distorted by factoring in infant mortality rates (and likely other things affecting these rates). Prehistoric people lived longer than 30-35 years, on average. They foraged and ate a wide variety of things, with little competition for resources. Agriculture was probably one of the worst things to happen to humans, especially women. Diet and life span took a nose dive after that.
This is untrue. there was fierce competition among human ancestors, and if you read up on evolution, you can see that humans indeed had shorter life spans years ago.
Little competition? Maybe during the population bottleneck period, but I assure you, there is PLENTY of evidence of prehistoric warfare; wounded bones tell no lies, particularly when they show markings suspiciously similar to the tool marks of the tribe next door…
Old-school agriculture IS bad for women, though, but only because high calorie intake from grains lets their bodies fatten up and thus trigger more frequent estrus and less frequent miscarriages… they have more babies, in fewer years, than those leading hunter-gatherer or modern “western” lifestyles. In undeveloped regions (including prehistoric times), this led to a lot of deaths from childbirth or complications thereafter, as they in many cases didn’t understand what made for proper post-birth care of the mother, and it did leave women awfully haggard, as anyone who’s been through pregnancy even once could predict. Pregnancy is hard on the body as a general rule.
Average lifespan in fact went down slightly with agriculture, but this is because they had more births; and without modern medicine, more infant mortality. Skews the average a little.
Yes, the anthropological studies look at the remains and can analyse things like height and weight, relative health of the bones, etc. Once agriculture was introduced, which was still thousands of years before medical advances, the stature of the people became much shorter, the bones are more lifely to have malnutritional deformities, the teeth to have cavities, and signs of heart disease start appearing, and these are in populations with similar lifespans.
There’s plenty of nice data out there to support this stuff. In no particular order, here’s some nice data I just pulled off PubMed.
UCSF – short term paleo intervention improving blood pressure, glucose tolerance, insulin secretion, insulin sensitivity and lipid profiles.
http://www.nature.com/ejcn/journal/v63/n8/abs/ejcn20094a.html
and another on glucose tolerance:
http://www.springerlink.com/content/h7628r66r0552222/
particularly important for type 2 diabetes:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0002822307019281
http://www.ajcn.org/content/82/1/242S.short (Harvard School of Public Health)
high protein diets reducing risk of heart disease:
http://www.ajcn.org/content/87/5/1571S.short
no improvement, but no damage in terms of heart disease and risk markers for high protein:
http://www.ajcn.org/content/87/1/23.short
a bit of that ‘I’m fuller longer and don’t get energy dips’ data
http://www.ajcn.org/content/87/1/44.short
not a perfect study, but gluten in non-celiacs with gut compaints causing bloating, pain, tiredness…
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1440-1746.2011.06653.x/full
here’s a quick scatter of lots of nice new attention to the gut and immune system
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/307/5717/1920.short
http://journals.lww.com/co-endocrinology/Abstract/2011/08000/The_gut_as_a_regulator_of_early_inflammation_in.3.aspx
introducing gluten earlier in infant’s lives = more celiac disease
http://jama.ama-assn.org/content/293/19/2343.short
but hey, just as a proof we ‘do our research’ – this kind of stuff gives me pause, makes me look up more and make my own decisions about exactly how to go about doing my version of a paleo diet:
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/122/21_MeetingAbstracts/A20256
(and hey, it’s affordable!)
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0271531711000960
Hope you like colon cancer.
Thanks Mark – I have been slipping lately and this was the article that I needed to read.
Sometimes reminders like this and a little reinforcement are useful. Thanks for reading, Alex!
A reminder for me about how much I don’t miss them 🙂
Hey Mark, new to you, but like what you are saying about no grains, they have never made me feel good. What else to eat besides fruits a veggies, Maybe this brocitis will go away. see ya.
Dan: Try a steak.
TRY A STEAK?
Steak has never and will never be good for you and is NOT nutrient dense. Just like the dairy that Mark bashes, it also is full of chemicals and comes from the same factories. In addition, steak is high in saturated fats.
Saturated fats = clogged arteries = heart attacks. That doesn’t change, but actually increases, from cutting out whole grains.
How did that Atkins guy die?
There’s a clue.
Karen: Fail.
I guess you never got to those parts of the blog explaining that grain-fed chemical-laden non-organic meat with unbalanced Omega 3:6 ratios and man-made trans fats wasn’t part of Grok’s meal plan, or the guides on Fats and Saturated Fats debunking your concerns – Paleolithic humans ate a lot of saturated fats since animal fats in their internal organs and fat reserves are mostly made of it. (our fat reserves are also made out of saturated fats – so… whener you force your body to take out and burn fat… OMG! that would mean weight loss causes heart disease, and to think I was planning on gradually releasing 30lbs of saturated fats into my system – that would have probably killed me I’m sure of it!
True, Grok may have died at an average age of 35, but it wasn’t from a heart attack – by that logic, meat-eating cheetahs would also be dropping dead from heart attacks – those guys don’t watch their saturated fat intake nearly enough.
Don’t believe me? Inuit tribes have been following the Primal/Caveman diet ever since they settled the Arctic. (apparently, gently heated seal blood tea tastes really good mixed with some raw seal flab, which can also be used as a cooking oil and lamp oil) They had no heart problems – until they began adopting Western-style grain/sugar diets…
How did that Atkins guy die? Probably from following a low-carb diet that wasn’t strict enough with avoiding man-made trans fats, out-of-season and processed foods while ignoring a balanced intake of polyunsaturated fats… and does the Atkins diet even encourage proper, healthy forms of exercise such as occasional sprints to flex those arterial heart valve muscles?
Wait a minute…. a simple search reveals that Dr. Atkins did not even die of a heart attack like you say – he died in a similar way our healthy high-fat eating ancestors might have : slipped and fell on ice, got head trauma and died.
@mm: There has been debate as to whether Atkins actually had some heart problems, but even if he did, who says it had to be because of his diet? He may have cut carbs, but who’s also to say that the meat he ate was healthy? (I don’t think sausages and bacon, for example, or good with all their chemicals and salt. It’s just not natural meat as one would find in nature).
Also, ‘average’ lifespan statistics are misleading. I think our modern lifespan is so high due to low birth mortality rates.. Grok’s babies may have died early, skewing our interpretation on how old they may have actually lived. Just a thought.
some people do fine with just fruits, veggies, nuts and seeds. look up 80 / 10 / 10
from reading up on it, it seems really healthy except for two things.
1. they tend to report a reduced libido.that makes me wonder what else is going on hormonally.
2. theyre all really skinny! i dont know if its hormonal, lack of protein or what, but ive never seen a skinnier bunch. Its great if thats what you want or if you dont care. they dont seem to suffer for it either, but it does make me wonder whats going on there.
For my Sustainability class my group is supposed to brainstorms ways we can cut back on food consumption on campus (ASU). One proposition will be to cut outs grains and sugars from campus. consuming only nutrient-dense food will derive undistorted satiation, and ultimately require less calories.
“if your average unhealthy person were to ask for the top three things to avoid in order to get healthy, I would tell them to stop smoking, to stop drinking their calories (as soda or juice), and to stop eating grains.”
You wouldn’t have no added or processed sugar as a top 3?
Which of Mark’s Top 3 would you have replaced with your suggestion?
Well the more I think about it, my suggestion, no sugar, pretty much covers the no soda suggestion, so I guess that one.
You?
I like the way Mark presented his Top 3 because many people think they’re eating healthy even while they’re drinking juice. While some foods with added sugars may at least provide a tiny bit of nutrition, sugary drinks are really at the bottom of that list.
While the avid readers of MDA already know this, I think it would be more helpful to newbies who still follow CW.
There are plenty of unhealthy people who don’t smoke.
agreed but the statement was if I had to tell people three things to a healthier lifestyle. No one was suggesting that just because you don’t smoke it means your healthy.
“If you’re not a smoker, don’t start” — how’s that — {:~)
Any number of things could make it into the top 3 on any given day. Of course it depends on the audience, too. As Kristin J touched on above, for your average guy or gal on the street just cutting out soda would be a major step in the right direction. But, yes, of course, processed sugar is right up there (and soda sort of covers or implies that).
Sugar is a grain! Right? So no grains covers it.
Well, no, it depends on where the sugar comes from. If it’s from corn syrup or sorghum, then OK. Sugarcane’s a whole different critter.
I think it’d have to be a top four suggestions. Because sugar, no matter where it comes from, is more and more implicated in metabolic syndrome and diabetes due to its fructose content. It also operates as an antinutrient.
lmao no sugar is NOT a grain..
I only drink diet (but a lot of it). Am I going to die for different reasons?
probably from a brain tumor or a neurological disease. Look up sweet misery
The artificial sweetners in “diet” sodas are just as bad or worse: they actually have been indicated in increasing your DESIRE for sugars and sweets, meaning you’ll consume more overall. Additionally, some of them have been correlated with higher cancer risk, though as with anything else relating to cancer, it’s difficult to pin it all on one thing, as environment as a whole plays into it, as does genetics.
If you have to have something sweet and liquidy, I recommend a juicy piece of fruit. Lower fructose content, and no potential carcinogens. 🙂
You can not change your genetic makeup. Plain and simple. Show me the SCIENCE to back it up, I’ll show you the SCIENCE that you can not! If you could we would not have any health problems.
Where did Mark ever say that you could change your genetic makeup? He’s talking about OPTIMIZING what you have – which means not eating things that we weren’t meant to eat, such as grains.
Context, dear. Read for context.
You can change your genetic makeup. It’s called epigenetics.
http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1952313,00.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epigenetics
The human metabolism changes all the time. Or more specifically, what your body does with food is much more variable than the ancient signals and cravings that drive eating patterns before you put anything in your mouth. It’s too simplistic to say we would have no health problems if we could change things.
The body changes its own makeup with epigenetics, but we can take it even a step further with current genetic engineering. One example is the glow in the dark bunny with fluorescent jellyfish genes: http://www.ekac.org/gfpbunny.html#gfpbunnyanchor
Some people treat paleo as a narrative habit for good health but don’t overlook other help from science, while others treat paleo as a religion that must not be questioned.
Hey Mark – quick question. What’s worse in your opinion, grains or sugar? Can one rely compare?
Grains cause a much higher insulin spike than sugar would. Grains like sugar are carbs. Grains such as wheat, trump sugar.
I’m not sure if Primal Blueprint dieters believe in the glycemic index, because it is something produced by contemporary science, but it ranks all carbohydrate foods based on how fast they digest and absorb, which relates to how much insulin will be produced. I believe Nezzy is way off base; sugar will spike blood sugar and insulin quite quickly because it is a simple carbohydrate (high on the glycemic index) while whole grains will cause a slower rise in insulin. There’s more about it here: http://www.glycemicindex.com/ . I’d be interested to hear what a PBer has to say about this, since fruits are on the glycemic too.
The glycemic index is nonsense (see http://www.phlaunt.com/diabetes/22168291.php). There’s no scientific basis for it whatsoever.
As for sugar vs. grains – in the long run, there’s no difference. Carbs are carbs – ALL carbs turn into sugar when your body processes them. Carbs are NOT GOOD for you. Grains and sugar – there’s no difference. They’re both bad. They both spike insulin and blood sugar levels. Avoid them both.
Griff,
If what you say, that “all carbs are carbs and are bad for you,” then you wouldn’t be able to eat the salad and fruits that the PB is so full of – they are mostly carbohydrate, but high in fiber and so digest more slowly and are easier on the pancreas as it produces insulin. The glycemic index is based in science – there are almost 4,000 articles that mention it in pubmed alone (and yes, I know some of them are probably swayed by funding from certain sources, but strongly doubt that every single one is). It is true that a PB-like diet can help control diabetes, and this is because it is low in simple carbohydrates like processed grains and added sugars. An insulin “spike” happens because simple sugars move to the blood faster, and it is true that x amount of sugar and x amount of a whole grain will take the same amount of insulin to cover, but the whole grain will not cause the insulin to be released as quickly and is therefore easier for the pancreas to deliver. I would be interested to hear your response to this concept.
Also, that link didn’t work for me – do you have an alternate?
Sarah,
I only eat leafy greens and other non-starchy carb vegetables. That means I rarely (if ever) eat fruit – it’s too high in sugar and it spikes me the same as candy does. I’m a type II diabetic, and my sugars remain under control only when I avoid starchy and sugary foods – including fruit and grains. I rarely ingest more than 50 grams of carbs (total, including fiber grams) per day.
The glycemic index is nonsense. Try using the glycemic index test with ten different people, and you’ll get ten wildly different responses to the same food. If the glycemic index was correct, those ten different responses would fall within a small margin of variation. They don’t. Every time you test another group of ten people, you get another set of ten wildly different results. The glycemic hypothesis does not stand up to evidence, because it’s not repeatable (and therefore not reliable). Therefore, it’s NOT scientific.
Also, it doesn’t matter how slowly or how quickly a carb turns into sugar in the body – it still turns into sugar and it still stimulates an insulin response. As long as there’s sugar in the bloodstream, the insulin response will continue to happen. Longer time periods for sugar release are actually MORE harmful in some ways.
The glycemic index is bunk. The main idea behind the Primal Blueprint is to minimize having insulin running around in your body; it’s toxic to your system. The glycemic index ignores this very important fact. For more on this, get the original “Protein Power” book by Drs. Michael and Mary Dan Eades, and read the section on insulin. You’ll be shocked.
The reason the link didn’t work is because the MDA comment form included the parenthesis on the end of the link for some reason. It doesn’t belong there. Go to your browser after you click on the link and delete the parenthesis at the end of the link, and then it should work fine.
Hi, I can’t eat fruit except for bananas as it triggers off my hot flushes while in menopause. I am not even 50 yet, as I started early but any sugar or carb (grain based) sets them off and I feel unwell on grains, sugar, nuts, seeds etc. Since getting rid of all grains, sugar, seeds, nuts etc I have felt so good. I included Sauerkraut into my diet and my bloating has gone. Good luck with what you are doing 🙂
Griff,
You do realize that your body manufactures glucose from the remnants of fatty acid and protein metabolism; it’s a pathway called gluconeogenesis. This is necessary as there are several tissues that require glucose and ONLY glucose, red blood cells being one of those types.
I too am a type II diabetic, and as I’m still trying to lose abdominal fat (lost 60 lbs in 3 months, still trying to lose 20-30 lb) I am eating VLCD with my doc doing blood tests every 2 weeks for electrolytes.
But my blood sugar is well controlled (HbA1c went from 10.8 to 5.7 in 4 months). I eat very low carb to stay in ketosis, and my blood sugar hovers between 106 and 85, most of my readings are in the 90’s after an hour of walking.
BTW, my doctor and the diabetes coordinator were just going to use the standard ADA treatment regimen. The doc wanted me off insulin and is very supportive. She can’t argue w/ results.
I’m just waiting for my cardiologist/lipidologist to go through the roof. My last NMR showed increases in lipid particles and decreases in lipid particle size. I’ve read that there is an increase when you first start losing weight, but I know that some genotypes can’t handle high fat diets. I am praying that my next NMR shows improvement.
Bill
Thanks for your thoughtful and open response – I can tell you’re really passionate about this stuff, and have read a lot. The website you sent almost leaves me with more questions than before…
I think we agree on several points (you, I and the article):
-Americans eat too many carbs, especially refined ones and added sugars
-Americans don’t think of their diet as the first place to look to address health concerns – I wish more would follow in your steps and look at what they eat before popping pills
-Insulin has two purposes – to help us use, and to store, energy
-The idea of tracking your own blood glucose levels after meals is great, just might be expensive and hard to access
Some things you and the article mention lead me to more questions, however – I can get on board with not wanting too much insulin circulating for too long, but I don’t think you can go so far as to dub it “toxic.” Our bodies don’t make substances that are toxic; we just force them to make too much of some things based on our lifestyles. Our bodies need LDL cholesterol and triglycerides; the problem that comes is when they are too high or out of ratio. The article makes this point well, “No matter what anyone tells you about the healthfulness of a food, you can check it out yourself.” And I think – the more I read and learn – that this message is more important than any: some people just respond differently to different foods. Perhaps the variability blood glucose in the groups tested on the glycemic index (and I will have to take a closer look at the research before I concede that it is total “bunk”) means that eating low works for some people, but not others (for whatever reason; I am sure that genetics and probably activity level play in here).
The last thing I’ll say that I think the author of the article doesn’t explain very well is why, if he doesn’t believe that sugar and grains are any different, “I would be the last person to argue that a diet rich in whole grains is worse for you than one made up mostly of Sugar Frosted Flakes and french fries.” He goes on to say “the fewer the carbohydrates eaten, the better the health outcome,” which implies that 0 would be the optimum amount of carbs to consume – even you would disagree with this (?) I think, since you said you try to stick around 50g/day. The author of the article, too, points out that people with diabetes process foods differently (I am curious to know, but you don’t have to feel obligated to share, what your diet was like before switching to PB).
I grew up eating a lot of red meat from cows fed a mixture of grain and grass, vegetables from the garden, and grains. Because I never experienced ill health on this diet – quite the opposite – and because it works for me, I do not intend to give up grains. But I am assessing the source and amount more than I used to, and the conclusion I come to more and more is that any food that is highly processed (white bread, hotdogs, vegetables canned with lots of salt) is what should be avoided, not any one group in particular. I’ll also share that I have a “traditional” (perhaps you would say conventional) nutrition education, and I know that while some people with the same background tend to be close minded and parrot what they learn, I am trying to consider the idea that one diet doesn’t fit all and make sure I’m familiar with lots of different diet options – especially ones that do have scientific evidence in support, like the PB.
Thanks for any other input you may have.
Sarah, here’s as much of a response as I can give to you at this point:
First, when they can test the “glycemic index” on a range of people in variable levels of age, gender, health, and fitness and show that it still predicts blood sugar responses consistently and accurately (within a small range), then I’ll believe that it’s scientific. Until then, it’s just babble and not even worth looking at twice. This is a fundamental scientific flaw in the hypothesis, and those 4,000 articles you mention probably ALL overlook it. The raw number of articles published doesn’t mean the theory is supported.
Many people who do PB do it entirely carnivorously and have for years. It’s a fact, much hidden by modern medicine, that you can get along just fine with no dietary carbohydrates at all. Our bodies produce carbohydrates from protein all the time; it’s called gluconeogenesis.
About insulin – it *is* toxic to the body. Horribly so. I’ve unfortunately lent my copy of Protein Power to a friend, so I can’t cite the specifics here, but the Eades have demonstrated over thirty years of ongoing medical practice that high insulin levels are the real culprit in almost all “diseases of civilization,” including high blood pressure, heart disease, and stroke. You will need to check their book (called “Protein Power”) out from the library and read up on this, but insulin absolutely is toxic to the body and the first goal is to minimize insulin production in order to minimize the damage your body gets from high and prolonged insulin levels. I can and do dub it “toxic.” Our bodies make all kinds of substances that are toxic (waste products, anyone?); so please don’t kid yourself about that.
I’m a diabetic, so I MUST track my glucose levels, and frankly anyone who’s dumb enough to eat processed carbohydrates should be doing it too, because they’re on the short road to type II diabetes. It’s only a matter of time – this is not an “if,” it’s a “when.”
I need to correct a serious misconception you have about me: I do not try to “stick around 50g/day” of carbs. I do my best never to EXCEED 50g/day of carbs, and I usually manage to stay below 30g/day of carbs. A day when I have no carbs is a good day for my blood sugar. And you are incorrect when you think that I would disagree with the idea that 0g/day is optimal. I completely agree with that idea.
Before PB, my diet was the Standard American Diet. Lots of “healthy whole grains,” pasta, rice, minimal fat, lots of low-fat processed crap – all that stuff that all the “conventionally educated in nutrition” folks said would get my diabetes and weigh under control (they were wrong – only PB has done that). Not a lot of sugar – I don’t like sweets and never have – but carbs up the ying-yang. And I was sick as a dog all the time. Cutting out wheat and other starchy/sugary carbs from my diet created a 180-degree turnaround for me. You can believe it or not as you like, but I guarantee you that you will feel better and live longer if you do the same.
Conventional nutrition is based on a series of scientific fallacies and and a few outright lies about weight, fat, and cholesterol. Therefore, your “education” is not an education. You’ve simply been sold a bill of goods. You want my input? Read the Primal Blueprint, the Eades’ books, and Gary Taubes’ book “Good Calories, Bad Calories.” Soak up the scientific evidence. Then make the informed choice. I did, and I’m healthier than I’ve been since I was a pre-teen.
I won’t be responding here on this post anymore because responding to the comment thread is getting unwieldy. Join the MDA forums here, and post to them, and learn. I’m not the only knowledgeable one – I’m just one of the louder folks here. I look forward to seeing you posting and asking questions there. Take care now.
Well Griff, I think you lost me. 0 carbs? A meat-only diet? It sounds like your views are even more extreme than others on this site. Maybe you think you’re just being direct, but your tone borders on condescending at times – I only point that out because you seem to be trying to convince people that what you’re saying is right – you catch more flies with honey, you know? (But think of all the carbs!) I’m still going to try to check out those books, but a more easily offended person might just write off what you say. Fingers crossed for better research to come out so people like us aren’t stuck debating on blogs!
Is no one going to raise the benefit of Stevia? I haven’t used sugar in about 20 years. While there is diabetes in my family, and some arthritis, I am 58 and have no health issues — somewhat high cholesterol, but high “good” cholesterol, but being post menopausal, my body changes and weight gains are from different sources. I eat organic, fruits and veg., minimal red meat (but “rare” when I do, chicken, fish, rarely eat pork in any form, and I am slightly lactose-intolerant. I use all-natural supplements almost daily, and I exercise (aerobic and anaerobic). I don’t fing my diet restrictive, I use herbs and spices ALOT (Cumin and Tumeric, Cinnamon and Nutmeg ALOT), and hot spices. No soda – ever. So, long story- short — balance with your diet is a good thing, experiment with things to keep it interesting, mix up your exercise to keep from becoming boring (mind and body), use YOGA, BREATHING, and TAI CHI techniques regularly. Common Sense goes a long way. 🙂
Mark. THANK YOU for your knowledge and time! I have read many paleolithic books. All of the info here is free! It astonishes me that the misinformed stumble here and judge without first reading or doing. Being a paleolithic advocate is sometimes a lonely place. I am among the ones seeking info, not debate.. I am a 47 year old women who is going through menopause and losing weight. I am told that I look 15 years younger than my age and asked what my secret is. Still when I try to explain paleo, I get the DEER IN THE HEADLIGHT look. I have NOT the strength to debate, so I say, GOOGLE Marks daily apple. Everything you need to know is there.
Thank you Mark
Dr. Lustig gets Type II kids of diabetic medicine, merely by having them cut out sugar sweetened beverages.
I can say from my own experience that cutting out soda alone can start rapid fat loss, particularly if you start out morbidly obese. Even while eating oatmeal routinely for breakfast.
This is a perfect reminder- esp with the holidays fast approaching. While I might enjoy a wee bit of quinoa or hummus now and then, my consumption has dropped dramtically over the last 9 months since I’ve been on the PB. Grains really don’t appeal to me any more, thankfully. Excellent post!
Why cut out hummus? It’s not a grain as far as I know.
It would be nice to get a clarification on this since as an Israeli cutting hummus out of my diet would be very close to impossible.
-Rafi
Beans are a no-no on the PB- I just threw them in there since some grains & beans are 20% for me!
There’s no reason to cut out legumes, but they are high in sugar (they’re carby). I’m a vegetarian so I eat legumes on days I don’t eat eggs to get my protein in. Also hummus is the sort of thing where a serving is a tablespoon, so you’re not even really eating that much hummus (or shouldn’t be).
They are a bean…legume. Not allowed on PB dirt
Isn’t quinoa a seed?
Quinoa is a chenopod plant, commonly misrepresented as a grain. It has seeds, yes, but it also has leaves.
Cordain has a great lecture on how grains (and lectins, of course), are linked to multiple sclerosis. It’s scientific but rather easy to understand.
http://www.youtube.com/user/miladskaya#g/c/7227FC56E6473A9B
Here is a good reason for eating grains, they taste good. Stop worrying about your diet and enjoy your life. Give vegetarianism a chance.
Grain-based foods do taste and smell good, I agree. But hardly a good reason to eat them regularly. Gonna have to do better than that.
This post (Grain Relapse) is perfect timing, as I have been slipping into daily consumption again. Back on the wagon now!
Grain based foods taste great, mostly because they contain sucrose or HFCS and mostly are made from refined grains. Try getting the average American to eat *real* whole wheat bread without added sugar or even brown rice. Not gonna happen.
G=G (can’t even bring myself to spell it out), glad you brought this up. That was to be one of my other major points under “no good reasons to eat grains.” They taste terrible. The only way to make grains even reasonably palatable is by adding sugars, spices, salt, cream, yeast, jams, spreads or sauces. What’s the point to that, other than adding cheap calories that easily convert to glucose? Just eat real food. Name a grain that tastes anything other than bland when its eaten all by itself. Beige glop any way you cut it.
BTW, I did give vegetarianism a try 30 years ago and it make me sick and weak. That’s why I host this site.
Could you please let us all avid readers know the vegetarian experiment as a separate post? I’d love to hear it
I agree. One of the things I realized after switching to Primal was that those cookies, cakes, biscuits, whatever might taste good, but I could never take a pinch of flour and eat it. EW! Definitely a disconnect there.
Almond flour on the other hand…mmm.
maybe you became sick and weak from vegetarianism because you are mentally sick and weak? And don’t you think that eating dead animal carcasses is bit cave-man like?
There are plenty of RAW protein sources that are far more digestible than dead meat. i.e.: hemp, chlorella, spirulina, organic cage-free eggs, etc.. etc.. etc..
I have been a veggie for years and am stronger than you will ever dream of being.
btw, what is so indigestible about spouted hulless oats?
The “cave-man like” thing is the whole POINT, Jay. Our genes didn’t evolve just because our minds did. They still expect the same things that Grok ate – meat, animal fat, and the occasional non-starchy vegetable. We did not evolve to eat grains and we are still not evolved to eat grains, regardless of what you think.
While you read “The Vegetarian Myth,” I’ll have a rare steak, thanks.
I wanted to go vegan. At one point I believed the health arguments because I didn’t know any better. It made me fatter and sicker. You can’t live on just green plants because they don’t contain enough calories and you’d have to do nothing but eat all day. You need an energy-dense source of food. If you’re vegan, that has to be grains.
The tendency for type 2 diabetes runs in my family, and I was already showing outward signs of metabolic syndrome. I lasted maybe two or three months on a vegan diet because it was making me fatter and sicker.
By the way, you can’t separate the mental from the physical, because the brain is a bodily organ just like your heart or stomach. If vegetarianism makes people mentally sick and weak that’s hardly anything to recommend it.
I have a way better time digesting minimally-cooked meat than I do seeds or algae or bacteria (spirullina is blue-green bacteria). And I would rather eat things that are easily obtained through low-tech means than be dependent on the factory food system for a bunch of germs in a capsule.
Sprouts are a whole nother matter from unsprouted seed. In that case you’re eating a plant, not a grain anymore.
Got any more insulting questions? Try this: keep them to yourself.
Wow, those posts before me are both pretty ridiculous. First, I’d like to address the gem of a statement that ‘our genes didn’t evolve just because our minds did,’ because it betrays some ignorance of how evolution works, and scientific illiteracy is a pet peeve of mine.
Alright, then: genes changing and mutating is what causes evolution. So, if you are saying that something evolved or that some part of something evolved like you say that our minds did, it is only because we evolved because our genes have changed.
Vegetarianism can only make you weak and sick if you are not eating the right things. If you get enough protein, which is very easy to accomplish by eating beans or a variety of other foods, enough vitamins, which again is simple since most fruits and veggies are loaded with them, and enough minerals.
The biggest mineral being iron, which is not as bioavailable to us from plant sources, meaning that for every gram of iron we eat from plants we will absorb less than we would if we ate the same amount from an animal source. This isn’t a huge problem, however, since there are plenty of vegetables, mostly the dark green leafy kinds, that have iron in them.
So, if you take nothing else from this and just skim through, know that almost everything this blogger writes is probably wrong. I’ve only read this one post, but it is full of misinformation. Just do yourself a favor and do a little research about what he is saying before you take it to heart. Just because he blogs doesn’t mean he is qualified to give the kinds of advice that he does.
Sorry to question your superiority there Jay-Jay but Im betting the kid’s college fund Mark would kick your veggie ass in any thing that required physical effort or ability. Why don’t you start your own blog buddy? I have learned you have to search out a matter to find the truth. If you depend on the media saturation and well known sources for your information you are up the river without a paddle or a canoe for that matter….by the way : Yes that is a waterfall up ahead.
You say that like you think aping cave people is a *bad* thing.
i’m sure you get this all the time. but i think that your eating recommendations are silly.
there are so many things wrong with the suggestion that cereal grains should be eliminated from the human diet altogether that its hard to know where to begin.
first of all..human society as it is today could not possibly survive without grains. billions of people depend on them for survival BECAUSE they are high in calories.
calories are what people require to do work. now granted, grains are not exquisitely high in nutrients, but they are not designed to be.
but whatevs…attempt to recreate the imaginary scenario of supposed caveman days.
Clearly your new here, dr. dune. Take a look around the site before you call my recommendations silly.
High in calories doesn’t mean good for you. When you start to look at the science behind the Primal diet (not as a weight-loss diet but as What You Eat), you will see that it’s much more beneficial for the human body than the Standard American Diet.
My cholesterol has gone down, my blood sugar has gone down, my weight has gone down, my arthritis and migraines have disappeared – because I stopped eating grains. You can deny it all you like but there’s a huge wealth of information out there for people who aren’t blinded by the conventional beliefs in this area. I hope you take your blinders off.
Mark isn’t trying to suggest a diet that billions of people can sustain… hes suggesting a diet that is ultimately healthy. This isn’t social studies class, this is nutrition.
Why do people think grains are “nutrient” dense? It is exactly the opposite, meat is dense in protein and fat. Fat is the most nutrient dense food if you are talking about calories. And both fat and protein contain essential components that are unable to be manufactured by the body. For fats it’s EFAs (essential fatty acids) and for protein it’s nitrogen and the related compounds that build muscle, and the whole spectrum of amino acids to create muscle.
That is one fact that always bothered me about going veggie – why would it be so hard to get complete protein and everything you need from a veggie diet if it’s the right way to eat?
You can live and even thrive on a diet composed entirely from protein and fat – because your body can manufacture glucose from these foods when it needs it. You CANNOT live on a carbohydrate diet only – all veggies/vegans know they have to be careful to get enough protein and fat from the plant sources, and it is hard to do so at a high-quality level. That should tell you something right there, and when you look at the body chemistry it just confirms it.
New to your site! Love it! Am a 45 year old female and spent the last two years recovering my multiple health issues: Systemic Candida, CFS, Fibromyalgia, weak heart, severe arrhythmias, seizures, mitral valve prolapse, endomitriosis, fibroids, NMH, low blood pressure, severe arthritis in my lower back and hips, CI, kidney stones and more. Through holistic health, I am now well!!! Been on a “caveman diet” since October 2008… no grains!!!! I’ve lost 54 pounds and look and feel better than I did in HS. Decided to “take my life back” when I collapsed two years ago and looked death straight in the face. If I can do it, anyone can!
I don’t really see the counter-argument of ‘grains don’t taste good’ as valid, as its totally up to the taste of the person. I love plain rice, and don’t find it bland, though most people do.
Saying that, everything else you’ve said seems fine 🙂
I have been thinking lately that grains were to be avoided and wanted to know why and your website has been really helpful. I agree with your ideas about this and will continue learning about this–as I much on my popcorn. But then you have to go and advocate eating meat! Are you serious? I agree that nothing tastes better than a good steak or hamburger at the right time and I do feel better at times after I indulge, but to suggest it is healthy is just plain absurd Nutritionists who advocate eating meat will tell you that there are two important nutrients that are supplied best by meat: certain B vitamins and iron. But ask yourself why do you think that is the case? Certain B vitamins are produced by decaying, rotting flesh. In other words, it is not inherent in the meat itself, but a byproduct of the fermenting, decaying process. And that is why well-trained nutritionists advocate meat eating? Really? The other nutrient is iron which common sense will tell you it is coming from the blood. So in other words, let’s skip the meat and just drink their blood, and that would be more nutrient dense, wouldn’t it? Plus, the obvious truth is that when a medical provider gets some of your blood on their little finger, they are scared and want to do all kinds of tests on your blood. Yet, the same meat eating provider thinks nothing of later dining on a nice juicy steak, thinking nothing of all of the infectious diseases that the cow or calf was exposed to in an effort to keep the costs down. If you really think they are tested for all likely (let alone all) diseases, you must also think that the Red Cross tests for all likely infections when you give blood–and not just the ones that are required by some regulation in effect at that time–then you are just too naive to host a website on nutrition.
Okay… So, first, you seem to be talking about commercialized animal products. That is NOT what is being promoted on this website. This website (and pretty much every other paleo/primal website) promotes eating humanely raised, pasteurized animals. They tend to have a better nutritional profile than ‘standard’ meat, and pasteurized beef has a better omega 3 : omega 6 ratio. For an animal to be pasteurized (or organic, which is a second best choice) the animal cannot have had any antibiotics/hormones during its lifetime. IF the animal NEEDED antibiotics to save its life, the owner usually sells it as a commercially processed meat. For someone who ‘feels better after they indulge’ (and for VERY good reason, because it is good for you!!!) for you to call someone naive when they have done CONSIDERABLY more research than you is asinine. And a bit ridiculous.
I am a vegan myself and there have been many nutritionists and doctors that say meat is not good for the body – or rather, we don’t need it with all of the amazing food we already have. Not only are you digesting the animal’s cholesterol but a lot of the nutrients can be found in plant based whole foods. And not to mention, meat absolutely has no fiber!
But I was intrigued with your comment and never looked it at that way. You made an interesting point and further validates my vegan diet.
How can you “enjoy your life” if your diet is plaguing your overall health and vitality? (By the way, this is coming from a vegetarian. A grainless vegetarian.)
Hey Emily, I have a vegetarian friend who is curious about eating Primally but does NOT want to start eating meat. Any advice for her?
While I’m sure Mark has plenty, I’ll give you my take. The obvious one is to emphasize vegetables and cut out grains. Cutting out grains is definitely the most important and often the most difficult for vegetarians. Refined grains should definitely go first, followed by wheat/bread products, and then whole grains (oats, quinoa, buckwheat, etc.)
Mark’s “big ass salad” works for vegetarians, too. Omit the meat and replace with avocado or raw nuts and use an oil or nut based dressing (I make my own). Basically, center your meals around vegetables (not starchy vegetables), especially nutrient-dense leafy greens, and add things like organic eggs and raw nuts and seeds. Eggs from your local farmer’s market are not only more humane but exceptionally more delicious than organic store-bought eggs. I don’t do much dairy, but I think the best choice is organic plain greek yogurt.
Raw vegetables and raw nuts are great, easy primal/vegetarian snacks. And while Mark has had some qualms with the Raw Vegan diet, a ton of it is primal-friendly and obviously vegetarian. It involves making protein and fat rich foods out of raw nuts, seeds, herbs, and oils. It’s worth looking into.
Hope that was some help!
I thought quinoa and buckwheat were not considered grains. What is the reason they should not be eaten.
As a vegetarian, I’m curious about what works for you, Emily, too. I agree with basing one’s diet around vegetables, but do you just accept a lower-protein diet than meat-eating primalists, or do you compensate otherwise?
My two cents, as a grain-free pescatarian, is that centering my meals around veggies, nuts, fruit, and fish, and throwing in legumes, other seafood, and organic eggs & dairy on occasion works great. I probably eat less protein than meat-eaters, but I do have hemp protein shakes for breakfast and don’t worry too much about it since I eat a lot of fish and nuts.
what is indigestible about spouted hulless oats, and btw, quinoa is not a grain but a seed and is highly digestible if sprouted.
Good call. And cocaine addicts enjoy the drug-induced euphoria. Same with Heroin users. Addicts crave the junk their addicted to, just as I used to crave bread and pizza crust and breakfast cereal (made from whole grains and minimal added sugar no less) when I was addicted to them. Now that I’ve cured my addiction, I don’t find those “foods” appealing any more. AND I feel so much better than when they were a part of my diet that it is unthinkable to me to even imagining a return to those “foods.” I used to get such bad gas from consuming grains that I used to look at my schedule to check when the next appointment for someone to come to my office was just to make sure I didn’t create an embarrassing situation-if you know what I mean. Same with my commutes by car. If I knew in advance that I had to pick up someone that day, I’d hold it in so to speak (which is quite uncomfortable on a 30+ minute commute!). Since going Primal, I’m now liberated from that grain-induced problem!
Ha, now that you mention it, I notice that I never have bad gas anymore, whereas it used to be bad enough that I’d have “exit strategies” for work or school because holding it in was so painful.
Alas, I still crave grains – specifically bread. But wheat makes me feel bloated and strangely sleepy when I gorge, so it’s not TOO hard to avoid anymore. Thank goodness I never liked rice or corn in the first place, though.
Icarus, I used to have that bloated and sleepy thing going on about 2 hrs after I ate anything with wheat. It got much worse before I figured out I have a sensitivity to gluten. Stop eating wheat, rye, barley (sorry, no beer anymore!) and you’ll feel a lot better.
Yeah you’re right! I don’t get bad gas anymore. At ALL. It used to be the worst part of a coast-to-coast flight was holding it in for 6 hours, but since I went primal, I rarely even have gas, and when I do it doesn’t clear a room.
What, you can’t go fart in the toilets on the plane?
Grains do not taste good. Save for piping hot bread out of the oven, most grains need flavor enhancement from sweeteners like sugar or sucralose or fats like butter or olive oil to be palatable. Does anybody eat just pasta without sauce or unsweetened cereal without milk? Nope. On the other hand, meat, fruit, and some vegetables can be enjoyed plain.
I love the consistency, smell and taste of bread. And I do enjoy what it brings to a sandwich (grilled cheese!). However I also realize what that stuff is doing to my body, and I have striven to eliminate all grains from my diet. However I allow myself the occasional pizza or one piece of toast with my eggs. Usually rarely, but lately more and more. And I have felt the difference, and am even more resolved to kick the grain/carb habit. This site helps so much in this effort. Like an alcoholic, I know I am never immune from falling off the wagon.
I love eating pasta, oalmeal, quinoa, etc, plain. I find this article very interesting but let’s stick to actual facts; taste is an entirely subjective thing.
Kiore, somehow I can’t believe you like that crap plain when there are so many other healthy, tasty choices. Remind me never to eat at your house 😉
Grains do not taste “good” per se, but my problem was that I could never just eat one bowl of rice (or whatever) to feel sated. I think this is partly because of the sensory deprivation of eating plain grain. I had to eat more of it to have a sustained sensory experience. Not so with meat. A while back I read some research on the connection between binge eating (which is a problem with me if I am eating a grain-based diet) and ADD (which I happen to have). Apparently one symptom of ADD in girls/women is binge eating. My personal experience is that I feel and think my best when I eat primally and stay on top of my medication schedule. And ditto with the “no bloating and gas”.
For the record, I am not the same guy as Dr. Dune. That said, I believe that insulin creates a feeling of “need” to consume more food when given a high carb meal. Based on what I have read about fruits and other carbs from eons past was they tasted like @#$%. They were very low in sugar and either very tart or slightly bitter depending on the food in question.
I have no doubt if bad tasting fruits were the only thing around, someone would eat it if they had to to survive. If you needed it to survive and had serious cravings for more, you might stomach eating more no matter how bad it tasted, so it follows that if genetic evolution provides an answer to a need, then that is partially why insulin acts in the way in does. This aspect of insulin is probably quite useless in the modern age given the abundance of carbs available today and our ways of making them tasty with ease.
Insulin puts the glucose liberated away in tissues for storage. If glucose were a primary fuel there ought to be minimal harm from having high levels in the blood stream (if Nature is reasonable, which is not to say it always is). This is far from the case. High glucose levels can be deadly and are not healthy. Insulin storage leads to crashes where you either have to suffer from the lack of fuel until a crisis erupts, or you eat more. Either way the release of glucose back into the bloodstream results in the re-release of even more insulin, even though the body is, temporarily at least, starving for fuel. Makes me think of the body working at cross purposes.
I think the body “accounts” for calories on a different basis. I am reminded of accounting where phrases like “last in, first out”are used. Emergency fuels, like I believe carbs to be, are used first as they represent a source of energy that was once consumed only in extremis for thousands of years, and thus the preferred fatty acids were to be held in as much as possible to ride the storm out until a return to animal protein and fat could take place.
I like the analogy of fuel for the car. I have a limited budget so I have to keep costs down, but I also have performance needs. If I had a cheap source of premium gasoline that was recommended for my car that I could store in an underground tank, I would use that whenever I could. If the source became limited or the price went up, I would immediately switch to using regular and suffer from performance issues, and hold my supply of premium in tanks only to be used again if prices came down, became available in abundance, or when even regular became scarce. Someone not knowing my reasons might conclude I love regular and hate using premium.
I think this is why we have been led to believe carbs are superior, because of witnessing a phenomenon of biology that exists to save us from starvation if meat and fat became scarce or unavailable for a time.
OTOH I think ancient primates had at least partially evolved to using carbs since the brain does indeed like to use carbs when available. It can go with less during lean times, but it does like them a lot. That is not to say the body likes grains over other sources of carbohydrate though. Sorry for the length of the post.
I know several people who eat just pasta, or just rice. I don’t, just pointing that out.
I just stumbled upon this article but would like to mention that some of my favorite things to eat are pasta without sauce, oatmeal without sugar (well, I like to eat it dry, straight out of the container — goes great with water…I’m so weird), and unsweetened cereal without milk. And plain bread. And plain rice.
(Not to say I don’t love fruits and vegetables and nuts and meat!)
This stuff is really interesting though. Definitely worth considering, although unfortunately I’m so busy and my budget is so limited that I fear I’d have to wait to try anything like this. In the meantime maybe I’ll be able to slowly nudge my way toward something a bit healthier.
So you cook your meat with just water or you eat it raw?
Meat tastes good. Give omnivorism a chance!
Hey, that’s great news — I think I’ll start drinking a gallon of scotch a week again, because I like the taste — thanks! :~)
Have you read the recently published book by Lierre Keith, “The Vegetarian Myth?”
She was a vegan for 20 years. Destroyed her health and the book makes a devastating case against vegetarianism, not only on health grounds, but environmental as well.
Yep, she’s both a radical environmentalist and feminist, and she shows vividly how destructive agriculture is to the planet, and how beneficial free-ranging animals are to the environment.
You might want to check it out.
It’s amazing that some of us wacky lefties actually do use our brains, huh? 🙂
I’m going to go have a nice medium-rare steak now, thanks.
I am surprised you did not have a coronary with the number of steaks you ate in this thread alone.
Maybe that should make you think about the fallacies you’ve been swallowing from the doctor and other people who don’t actually know what they’re talking about, then, shouldn’t it? Not only have I not had a coronary, I know I’m never going to.
However, I am going to go have another steak – and no coronary, thanks. You can have that with your all-grain bread and soy protein diet… or you could wake up and smell the bacon.
It has NEVER been proven that saturated fats or dietary cholesterol have any effect on heart disease. Notice I said DIETARY cholesterol. Yes, the small, dense form of LDL in the blood is strongly correlated with heart disease, but what raises it? Carbs.
Also, beef fat is only about 50% saturated, about 50% monounsaturated. Lard (prokfat) is about 70% monounsaturated, 30% saturated. I blieve poultry is similar. So the entire belief that animal fat is causes heart disease is unsubstantiated.
A good point you made about how little traditional doctors know about the subject. I think the fact that the average MD is dead by 58 is plenty reason not to look to them as a well-spring of health related wisdom.
BTW Your free to have another steak now.
Did you knowingly follow up “stop worrying about your diet and enjoy life” with, “Give Vegetarianism a chance”. You literally just said, don’t worry about your diet, instead change you diet. I personally just stumbled onto this site so if you have a similar post about why vegetarianism is unhealthy id love to know about it.
i liked this post, i have tried paleo in the past and started losing weight and feeling better immediatley. i stopped however because i still wasn’t convinced i should eat meat( i was a vegetarian from 13-about18) you have to think about grains/beans/dairy..these foods can NOT be eaten in the wild! to eat grains one needs to build a fire step one, and as far as i know we are the only creature who has figured that one out…step two you need a vessel to boil water clay/stone/metal/glass i don’t know but you need to make something that will hold the water and not melt on the fire,step 3 go out and search the land for grains/beans they are hard as rocks and ya they don’t want to be eaten!! i wonder how we figured out how to cook these hard inedible seeds? something most people don’t think about, but think about how much effort goes into making grains and beans edible, while meat veggies fruit and eggs even honey can all be eaten raw wild readily available nutrition! as far as taste goes, plain grains all by themselves are not very tasty they are PLAIN not gross just plain. anyway, i’m glad i came across this article very inspriring
Do you really think there aren’t any animals that eat grains and/or beans? Just because they’re hard to get to doesn’t mean something won’t try; in fact, I’d probably assume the opposite of that. The harder something is to eat, the more animals are trying to eat it. That’s why it evolved to be so difficult to get to.
i never said that actually..i think that animals including us take nutrition wherever we can get it! i was just making an observation that we are the only creatures that cook something into becoming edible which can make you wonder if we should eat it or not. now what you just said about something being harder to eat makes it evolve into becoming harder to eat is silly, seeds are very important to plants because they are the future of their species all seeds are difficult to eat because of this reason…i am still a vegetarian on most days but will occasionally have meat i eat lots of grains and beans and i loooooooove bread. i’m not sure if we should eat grains and beans or not which is why i tried the paleo for about a week. the one thing i noticed was how easily meat is digested while the grains gave me heartburn and seemed to sit in my stomach for hours
Actually dairy can be eaten raw! There is a growing movement of folks who are demanding access to clean, safe, locally produced, organic raw milk and raw milk products. In many states it is legal to buy/sell raw milk. Some people who cannot tolerate store-bought milk can tolerate raw. There is, however, something to be said about the notion that cow milk was made for baby cows (and goat milk for kids, etc.). I must say that I feel immensely better after having eliminated dairy from my diet.
Beans and grains can be sprouted and eaten with water alone. I agree with what you are saying mostly, just wanted to add that.
Great stuff Mark. Once again had to forward this great post to all my family members!
I have now heard all of the above from people – usually while they stuff their mouths with cake or cookies. I guess the irony of “what about fiber” and lack of vitamins and minerals was lost on them…
“humans arent meant to eat grains” which is why every known civilization bases their diet off of some type of grain or starch.You cant name one that doesnt. Grains arent unhealthy , taste is subjective, and “primal” cultures today eat grains, dairy ect. and none of them do hiit or lift weights.
The Maasai Tribe. There’s one 🙂
and this proves that?
Inuit didn’t until they were partially assimilated – and grain-eating Inuits are extremely unhealthy – obese, prone to diabetes and heart attacks which their hunted-meat-only eating counterparts don’t suffer from.
The reason why non-nomadic civilizations base their diets in grains is because there came a point where humans became too overpopulated to live as nomadic hunters and growing grains thousands of years ago fed more people with less land. (the amount of land territory it takes from roaming hunter-gatherers is high compared to the land it takes to both grow grains and keep domesticated livestock)
Another reason why they used grains and livestock instead of only living off of livestock and vegetable crops is because grains can be stored in times of famine and can be traded as primitive currency to collect taxes and pay workers’ wages.
The fact that grains are unhealthy and a high-grain, high-carb sugar-based metabolism can mess up the health of even the most well-adapted grain-eater either didn’t become apparent enough to cause alarm or it wasn’t important enough when weighed in with the other benefits grains gave civilizations at that time. (So what if you die younger and are a little more unhealthy? At least when a crop-killing drought or animal-killing disease comes you’ll have grain reserves to keep your village/city alive and quench civil unrest)
civilization evolved because grains allowed population to increase and allowed stratification of society… just because grains are needed to sustain a population doesn’t mean they’re healthy. after the adoption of agriculture, life expectancy DECREASED, along with average height, free time, and probably a whole bunch of other things i can’t think of right now. that’s the whole point, eating like a caveman, sans grains, is healthier
You don’t know what cavemen ate. There’s even evidence that they ate grains as prior to the agricultural revolution.
Talking about primal cultures, I wondered what you guys think about the book of Weston A. Price, who studied a number of “primitive” cultures. Many of these groups did eat grains (rye, barley, etc.) or other carbohydrate rich vegetables. See his book:
http://www.journeytoforever.org/farm_library/price/pricetoc.html
Could it be that the health problem is mainly wheat and not all grains? And that only people that need to watch their weight may want to try the effect of eliminating more carbohydrates?
Civilization is a late comer and very recent in evolutionary terms.
According to Jared Diamond agriculture is human’s worst mistake.
So if i eat a bowl of oatmeal, im basically going to die a slow horrible death. Got it.
I read the book and it makes a lot of sense but this is getting crazy. I’ve read people debating the carb count in TOMATOES?!?!?!
I didn’t get that message, the one about the slow horrible death. There’s ample proof that grains were not meant to be digested by humans. You can take it or leave it, but there are a lot of people that I know personally that were just as skeptical as you seem until they went without for a month.
You should try it if you haven’t already. I mean what is 30 days in an avg. lifespan of 77 years?
Not sure about the tomato thing. I haven’t known this site to ever be concerned with counting carbs, just eating healthier carbs.
Healthier carbs should be the first concern. Counting is secondary. Depending on your goals, you may need/want to reduce your carb input. I’ve used the Zone diet in the past to help me portion my macronutrient intake. Helpful, but I would suggest to anyone thinking about the Zone to only treat it as a guideline, and not as a full-on diet prescription. I found all the measuring and meal timing to be too burdensome. The general Primal rules are much better.
I’m with you, Tim, on how carb counting can get ridiculous. That is why, unless you are regimenting your diet for the sake of weight loss, I don’t recommend people do it (and even then not all the time).
Glad you liked the book.
https://www.marksdailyapple.com/dont-let-the-perfect-be-the-enemy-of-the-good/
https://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-8020-revisited/
https://www.marksdailyapple.com/will-momentary-compromises-derail-your-efforts/
Uh, so what???? lol
Nice rebuttal.
Carb counting is a Low CARB thing, not a paleo thing. It is really only important for diabetics or people who are so carb sensitive that eating fruit makes them ravenously hungry for all carbs, grains, fruits, sugars and other starches.
CARbs in a tomato…
That is basically people who have ruined their metabolism with grains and sugars. Tomatoes are fruit, and they have to take those into account if they are trying to keep their carb intake below a safe (for them) level). This concern is not related to paleo eating except that the diets are similar and they have recipes that they can glean to each other.
As a diabetic, it is in my best interest to carb count EVERYTHING, including tomatoes, which are actually a fruit and quite high in sugar. I might have two tablespoons of chopped tomatoes with a salad, but no more than that because my blood sugar goes through the roof if I do.
Oatmeal’s got one of the highest amounts of phytates of any grain so, long story short, yes.
Now, I love oatmeal (at least, with sweetener in it). In fact it was one of my staple foods in my vegan phase. I was already short on essential minerals and I think the oats just made it worse.
Hi Mark –
Just finishing your book today.
In regards to grains, I’d appreciate your opinion on this product, which I have as part of a morning smoothy:
http://www.ultimatelife.com/CatalogMealBenefits.htm
It is primarily greens, not grains — but it does have millet in it.
Thanks,
Paul
What’s your opinion on soaking grains first, Weston A. Price Foundation style?
Or sprouted grains. I’m curious also.
I tried sprouted bread this weekend, and as Mark pointed out above, it’s very tasty…when slathered with a generous helping of golden-yellow pastured butter. 😛
Taste aside, I think if you don’t have a sensitivity to gluten, then soaked/sprouted/fermented grains overcome some of the main health detriments associated with grains and listed above; that is, they preserve nutrients (unlike polished grains) while getting rid of *most* antinutrients (unlike those “healthy” whole grains.)
But they’re still a bit carby – one slice of toast will run you 14g of carbs, and seriously, who eats one friggin’ slice of toast at a time? That’s 28 carbs for breakfast or a sandwhich, which, while probably much better than white bread, is probably still best used in moderation, like good milk. (Pastured butter, on the other hand, imo can and should be used in nearly everything…)
You could you know, just eat the butter and avoid most of the carbs.
Besides who *cares* how healthy the grains are?
I’m not Mark, but I think WAPF guidelines for grains are extremely important for folks in poverty who can’t afford a lot of meat and/or don’t have the storage space for perishable whole foods. These folks are going to be heavily dependent on grain, and presoaking that grain in an acidic medium will render it a lot safer.
Very timely for me as well. Thank you. I’ve been struggling a bit lately in figuring out what’s good and bad for my individual system, and this is a great reminder of why I should never ever consider grains. Even if they taste good, they’re not worth it!
I posted this on Twitter, but might as well just place it here…
I think it’s a wise idea to avoid the grains, but when there are two people involved and only one of them is decidedly primal, sometimes the primal person has to make concessions.
In my house, dinner is whatever my wife puts on the table when she cooks. I’m extremely blessed that she is fairly on-board with primal foods, but there are times where we will have pasta or home made pizza… maybe a couple times a month. I think it’s a small sacrifice for me to make in order for her to not feel the burden of *my* dietary convictions when she doesn’t 100% believe in it. It’s a worthwhile sacrifice. Considering how much she and I have both changed our eating habits for the better, I can’t be happier. I don’t want to spend too much emotional effort nit-picking because in comparison, it’s only one small piece of a much bigger puzzle.
That’s what the 80/20 rule is for 🙂
If eating the occasional pizza is all it takes for you both to eat healthy the rest of the time, you’re doing quite well.
Absolutley! I have a family of 5 including my mother at home. No one else is “on-board” It makes everything a little more complicated. And you have to weigh your relationships into the mix. I think fundmentalism in any form isn’t a good thing. I still kept grains in the morning for a few weeks, but cut them out completly. I feel better then I ever have in my life! I don’t have interest in making exceptions, except for rare occassions. Beleiveing i am a food addict..cutting out grains and refind sugar is essential! So glad to have found PB and crossfit too!
Good point on the importance of making concessions. My fiance is very nonprimal, and sadly nothing I have been saying or doing has made a dent on his outlook (OK, so he switched from regular to diet coke, sigh). I do all of the cooking, and the primal way of cooking is further made difficult by the fact that he does not eat most veggies, nor many varieties of meat (oh and NO seafood of any kind). Anyway, we try the best we can — I’ll usually make him a potato side that I won’t eat, and buy low-carb tortillas for his beloved chicken fajitas. Thank god he loves steak almost as much as I do.
I was really stressed out in the beginning, but now realize it isn’t worth it since that isn’t helping anyone — if/when he is willing to make a change, I will be thrilled. For now, we do what we can to avoid going to bed angry 🙂
Thanks for the insight. I wish I could find myself a decidly primal/paleo-crossfittingesque-wonder-girl to avoid having to make those kinda sacrifices. Pretty damn rare amongst student life though… “ZOMG FREE DOMINOS AT FRESHERS!!” 😛
So where do you go to school? 😉
Haha! very smart!
I almost answered that without even realising. 😛
Make him cook his own darn food.
You’re right. I should give it an honest go for 30 days and see how i feel. Right now i only eat oats for the most part anyway-so hopefully it isn’t too hard.
Sorry for the vague post by the way, i was in a hurry.
Tim – I miss oatmeal, too. I was thinking I might try heating up some almond flour in heavy cream and throwing a few berries in. Who says hot cereal has to be oats?
I miss oatmeal the most.
A couple times a winter I soak my cracked groats and cook them in a slow cooker.
Yummy. But I need a carbo-nap soon after.
I read groats as goats… Funny image 😀
slow cooked cracked goats, mmmmmmmm….
Timely. I ordered a low-carb six dollar burger (per your recommendation) at lunch and they mistakenly gave me a regular six dollar burger. I was going to go ahead and eat the bun, then read this. It’s now sitting in the garbage.
hey marc. could you post some of the great science papers you have written on paleo and grains. thanks man.
Great article Mark,
I’m confused though, what makes the fiber from fruits and veggies desirable?
While I agree with most of the post, Mark fails to include the reasoning behind the article about the benefits of fiber: “It’s a bit of a paradox, but what we are saying is an injury at the cell level can promote health of the GI tract as a whole.”
Only including the words “rupturing”, “banging”, and “tearing” is an emotional appeal that exploits the traditionally negative connotations of these words. I thought dispelling, not reinforcing, traditional conventions was the goal of this site.
Nate, I’m just quoting verbatim the article in Science Daily (and linking it directly so anyone can read it). And yes I AM dispelling CW in that paragraph, since I am clearly questioning the rationale of the those terms (dispelling) as they could possibly apply to good gut health.
Well isn’t banging and tearing muscle fibers through hard lifting what gets them (and us) to grow stronger?
Intestinal lining isn’t muscle fiber. You absorb a lot of substances through it and it interfaces with your immune system so this is not something to play around with.
I have Crohn’s Disease and one of the things they told me is to avoid high-fiber (and high-G.I.) meals when I have Crohn’s inflammation – when I’d forget this, my intestinal immune system made sure to remind me, sometimes in not-so-subtle ways
My husband and I quit eating ALL grains this past March to reduce my triglycerides and improve my husband blood sugar level, and I received the unexpected result of having huge amounts of inflammation leaving my body more flexible than it had been since I was a small child! I am still amazed and thankful each and every day! Unless there are unexpected circumstances, I seriously do not see myself EVER eating grains again, especially wheat. Thanks for the site Mark!
That’s exactly my story. Quit grains, most especially wheat, and my inflammation dropped significantly. It dropped to the point where I don’t have to take meds anymore for IBS and I don’t have chronic foot pain. I now use my foot as a guide for inflammation levels. My body is functioning (and looking) SO MUCH BETTER without grains.
Mark et al.
Forgive for writing this, but I must pose a question.
Mark mentions cereal grains, and other things like spelt, millet, etc. However, are things like brown rice “less bad” for you? I would say it cant be any worse for you than a processed grain like flour.
Please divulge.
The term “cereal” means ALL grains, including rice and corn. It is a term used to describe the seed of any member of the grass family. That is, grains.
if we’re avioding cereal grains, i.e. all seeds of the grass family are we avoiding Asparagus also?
You eat asparagus seeds? Weird. I didn’t know they were edible.
Forgot to mention that Corn and Rice are in the grass family.
Thanks for laying this all out. Keep preaching also it needs to be repeated. I’m coming around on this – have cut way back on them and I’m leaner and feel better generally. But it’s tough in this ADM-centric world of ours it’s tough 🙂
If I eat grains only one day, the next day is a digestive disaster.
Any young person who doesn’t yet have IBS, or the like, take heed now. Don’t wait till you develop these conditions.
Wish this site had been around 20 years ago!
Rachel Allen- I second this!! I ate grains most of my life with no symptoms (I’m now 38) and just recently developed IBS. After giving up grains (and beans, sugar & almost all dairy) 2 months ago, I have eliminated my symptoms!
I, too, wish this site had been around 20 years ago! :o)
Excellent Post and VERY important. I developed Crohn’s at 23 and put on all kinds of drugs. I’ve since quit grains and the drugs and have had my inflammation levels drop significantly and I literally have no markings that would show that I have Crohn’s anymore.
Don’t wait to quit grains, quit them now especially if you are of European descent. GI will doctors will say diet has nothing to do with it. They are either liars or very misinformed. Diet is EVERYTHING.
Yes, I love how GI docs will tell you that diet has nothing to do with diseases of the GI tract.
Heartburn too, is diet related. If it is true hyperacidity, eliminating grains can cure it.
Sadly, many people with heartburn are actually hypochloridic, meaning lacking stomach acid. They are put on PPIs which only exacerbate the problem.
That is strange that your GI docs act this way – at the hospital when they realized I had crohn’s and not appendicitis (the large baseball-sized absessed fistula going from my guts to my kidney may have been a clue), they gave me a printout with a small table of high, moderate and low fiber/G.I. foods and suggested to eat low fiber/G.I. during flare-ups (G.I. being a euphemism for carbs).
My GI doc emphasizes stress over diet but I’m pretty sure that’s becasue it’s much easier to detect which foods damage your intestines and which do not whereas stress is more omnipresent and harder to gauge.
Of all doctors I’d think GI docs would be the most pro-primal, anti-grain docs out there, even with their limited nutritional training.
Excellant article Mark. I have been turnded on to the Paleo way of eating since reading Neanderthin. I have never felt better after giving up my grains. Potatoes were harder to give up since I am Irish. LOL.
I love your website and your articles are very well written. Here is another site that give more of the bad effects of grains, potatoes, milk, etc.
http://www.earth360.com/diet_paleodiet_balzer.html
I never was a big grain-eater or grain-lover, so scaling back consumption to zero was easy.
Then again… by cutting them out, I discovered just how many grains I had actually been consuming via mindless noshing. A few crackers here, a few chips there…
Once I made the decision to pass them by, I found I was regularly stopping myself from grabbing grain junk because “Oh yeah, I won’t eat that anymore”.
Cutting out snacking by 90% and ditching those sugars/starches/grains made a huge difference in my weight and body composition, even with no change in exercise habits. I am a solid 15 lbs less than what SAD had fixed as my low “do-not-cross weight threshhold”, and yet no cravings.
My body/mind isn’t going wacko trying to revert to its “normal” weight. This **is** my normal weight! It’s so easy it’s unreal. Usually by now – heading into winter – I had always been afflicted with chronic cardio burnout and massive carb cravings. You know, to get back to a supposed “set point” [only to have to lose the flab again the following summer].
Now I have plenty of room in my diet for fats I could never enjoy in the past, plus some new ones I find absolutely delightful (coconut, macadamia oil). That means I am eating foods that I am supposed to be eating to keep everything working properly. I feel great and am now looking forward to focusing on a better exercise scheme, instead of wanting/needing to get away from it all. (I am 5’5″ and 115#)
Grains, it wasn’t even nice knowing ya…
Thanks for the solution to the maize, Mark. 🙂
OMG! 115# at 5’5 …you’re my new motivator.
Been around 150# (height 5’5) since high school..I’m now 22.
I was max 130 prior to reducing grains – (5’4″ AND A HALF thankyouverymuch 😉 weighed in at 118 yesterday and am still losing weight. You can do it! I feel SO much better in general, now.
WHAT? Really? Ugh.. Im so ill informed on everything food-wise. I will never go veg or vegan but I can ditch grains no problem.. I need to start from square one. I guess this sites a good start..
I feel so guilty reading this over a bowl of pasta. Tomorrow, a salad is a must.
Don’t eat lettuce in your salad….lettuce “doesn’t want to be eaten”….
I’m often amazed at how some people have been primal for so long, yet they fall off the wagon still.
I’m going to write about this on my site.
Honestly I think that some of us are more “addicted” than others. Even though there is a huge burn-out and long-term effects there is pleasure involved initially in eating grains for many people.
It’s like being a drug addict in a society where it’s frowned upon if you’re NOT using it…
some good points also lots of conflicting points people say grains are bad to digest and cause weight gain maybe true but would you eat a dead cow in middle of road full of dirty poisonous toxins ?? that red meat takes up to 72 hours to leave body surely this cant be best for lifestyle. im a big believer in bread is worst culprit out there as its mixed with yeast,wheat,flour,all sorts but i feel a bowl of porridge oats is maybe the only exception for a grain as i feel this is a good food its a good petrol for the body along with fruit veg and fish salads im still to be convinced eating birds and cows is good for the human body people have all sorts of allergies and intolerences i even think twice bout putting milk in my tea now all the stories bout is dairy ok i think its all trial and error but i do agree with the points that high protein low carb does afect serotonin levels and lowers mood this is why i think oats can help with that
Does your period key not work?
Nice Post. I have been off grains for a while and always feel much better without them. No bread, pasta or processed food at all and I still manage to maintain a heavy muscle mass, a solid muscular foundation and very little in the way of cravings at all.
I have read a number of people who enliken no grains to counting carbs. The two are mutually exclusive. I still maintain at least 40% carbs through healthy whole food choices such as yams & potatoes plus a wealth of fruits and veggies. Carbs are not the enemy…processed food IS!
Carbs are the enemy if you’re already halfway to diabetic. It’s great for you if they don’t bother you. Honestly, when I’m low-carbing I find I can get away with some. But too much is too much.
I’ll take Mark’s statements about grain one step farther and say there’s nothing in plant foods that you NEED that you can’t get from animal foods. Plant foods are relatively cheap, and some phytonutrients turn out to be useful to people who are already metabolically damaged, but aside from that… well, there are carnivorous traditional cultures, but no vegan ones. I’m sure there’s a very good reason for that.
Sounds liek you’re using the Zone diet of 40/30/30… I’m not sure if the Primal Blueprint/Eating Plan was meant to be used that way as you probably still burn sugar instead of ketones as a main fuel source and it’s the resulting toxic sugar damage and high overall insulin levels that can cause problems such as inflammation/inflammation-related heart disease, insulin/energy instability, insulin resistance and increased cancer/tumour cell growth.
Stone age humans were designed to run primarily on ketones, not sugars. So in my opinion you may be missing out on some stone age/primal diet benefits
WOW! Thanks for laying it all out there Sir Marcus!
After I ditched the grains last June I found out why I was experiencing chronic, low level pain. I even told my sister once that I was really concerned about it.
But the visual proof of not having grains – and lower carbs generally – was my toenail fungus stopped. As in a clear line across my nails that matched in time to my grain cessation. The fungus is still doing a bit of rear guard action, but pretty soon it should be all gone.
On of my fellow nurses was a vegetarian. She told me she finally had to add meat to her diet because her body could
t stand it any more, she was sick and weak all the time.
I have a niece that’s a vegetarian. What’s interesting is that she’s a twin. Her sister is not a vegetarian. You can tell the difference. The veg looks pale and weak and has worse skin. Wish I could talk some sense into her.
It is certainly very easy to be an unhealthy vegetarian or “carbotarian” as I call it. However, we shouldn’t dismiss the possibility of a vegetarian who doesn’t eat grains, eats primarily nutrient-dense vegetables and fat, and plenty of organic eggs. I can say with confidence that I am the healthiest person I know (in person, anyway!) and that’s the diet I follow.
I plan on doing a blog post sometime about the risks of vegetarianism and the way it can still be a healthy diet. While it’s sometimes challenging to maintain great health on a vegetarian diet, there’s a slew of moral and environmental issues that vegetarianism addresses that often gets overlooked on many primal/anti-vegetarian blogs. Let us not forget what (conventional) meat consumption is doing to the planet and to an enormous amount of living creatures.
The moral and environmental issues with the meat industry are huge yes. I believe that’s why we need a huge change in farming procedure. I don’t think people should stop eating meat as a result but rather stop supporting the companies that are causing these issues if they possibly can. The horrors of the meat industry are just one example of the consequences of the money-power-play running behind the scenes of governmental systems. So ultimately we gotta ask, how do we fix the system?
We gotta take the powa back! UUGH!! >:)
The moral and environmental issues, as I’m sure you know, are almost entirely averted by eating pastured meat, eggs, and dairy – that is, by encouraging animal husbandry that truly deserves the name and farming practices that respect the animals that nourish us and give us life (and clothing, and fertilizer, and labor, and and and…) And of course, organic farming is basically impossible without the use of animal waste for fertilizer, and I don’t think egg-laying hens and milk-giving cows produce enough waste to sidestep that fact, which is why vegetarianism is impractical for an environmentally-friendly system of agriculture in the long run. Veganism is especially so.
I guess the main problem lies in the fact that eating animals still involves killing them, which, if it’s as painless and cruelty-free as possible, I don’t personally have a problem with. But, different strokes for different folks, I guess. Also, grass-fed meat/eggs/dairy is damn expensive, but, in my opinion, worth it on a moral level and possibly a nutritional one as well.
Well said. If it’s at all affordable it’s absolutely worth it.
While, in theory, it’s true that, as you say, grass-fed meat is worth it on a moral and nutritional level, not everyone can actually afford to eat that way. The primal lifestyle is, in its ideal form, an expensive one as well. I hope to someday be able to buy food like that, but for now I avoid meat, because I wouldn’t want to eat the meat I can afford.
As opposed to the clear-cutting required in most plant agriculture which, of course, does absolutely nothing to the environment because deforestation isn’t the first step in desertification.
This is the elephant in the living room that no veg*n seems to want to acknowledge. Nobody has to raise an animal in a battery farm. Anybody wanting to raise cabbages has to clear land first.
I absolutely agree with this. Since cutting out all grains and grain derivatives, I have been IBS free. That’s 5 weeks with no IBS. I used to suffer at least once a week, with the most awful, debilitating pain which would leave me curled up on the floor in agony.
Now, meat, fish, veg, limited fruit and limited nuts are what I eat. I am healthy. I live my life deciding what and when to eat rather than food dictating to me.
Great post again Mark!
This post was great to remind me about why I am making these changes, and encouraging me to keep at it. Last night I made us our first real Primal evening meal. But I decided to include things that my husband normally loves – chips, rice and crisps. So I made a roast pork tenderloin, fried cauliflower rice, sweet potato chips and beetroot crisps. My husband was really impressed – even with the meal being grain free.
So flaxseed (linseed), couscous and Quinoa are not grains? i usually use these in recipes instead of rice etc.
I don’t think that grains dissuade consumption, as we can easily digest them, and the whole world eats them every day. They just aren’t best for you.
Alex, couscous is a wheat based food. I can’t remember if it is a form of pasta or a steamed and cracked form but it is wheat based.
Couscous is tiny pasta
LOL, that is one of the funniest things I have heard in a long time. It is so apt.
Mark, do you think that nuts and seeds are indeed healthy to consume? You make the argument that fibre can be deleterious to health. Yet, nuts are very high in fibre and not easy to digest for many. As a fan of nuts, i am beginning to think they should be avoided. For instance, everytime i look at my fecal matter after having eaten nuts, i noticed numerous bits of nuts, even though i chewed the nuts as best as i could. I think that humans might absorb little nutrients from nuts, and that they may cause more harm than good in that the fibre might damage our GI tract. Your thoughts?
peter, I am a fan of eating nuts. Most people digest nuts (and nut butters) quite easily. Understand, I am not against fiber per se, I am simply saying that we get all the fiber we need from vegetables, fruits and nuts. We just don’t need to get added fiber in any way from grains.
Peter – you might want to look into the Weston Price Foundation’s website (www.westonaprice.org) and read up on how to ‘process’ nuts so that they are more edible. WAPF recommends that nuts & seeds be soaked and dried before consumption. This will neutralize anti-nutrients in the raw nuts. If the nuts & seeds are soaked and dried correctly they become crispy and delicious. Several companies sell nuts like these but they are pricey. Some people I know do all this at home with a dehydrator.
WAPF also recommends that all grains be soaked, fermented or sprouted before being used or consumed. This does neutralize the anti-nutrients that Mark mentioned in his article and it does help in digesting the grains. However, I’ve found from my own experience that this still doesn’t go far enough and that I feel better if I avoid grains.
Alex,
Quinoa and flax are not grasses, they’re still seeds though, they might contain lectins and phytic acid, but couscous is cracked wheat!
Just because the others, who would be starving otherwise are eating them doesn’t mean they are good for you. You can easily digest them if they’re prepared and cooked properly. Not getting sick after the meal is not the sign that the food is beneficial, but that is tolerated by the digestive tract.
“The seed stays intact throughout the digestive process; it is indigestible by design.” – I think you meant to say ‘by chance’ here. Just sayin
Not to open a can of worms.
If you read the article again you’ll understand that it isn’t by chance. It’s a defense mechanism that evolved through the process of natural selection.
But evolutionary mechanisms evolve by chance. There’s no brain in the seed going, “Hey, if I were indigestible, I’d be so much more successful!” and then making it so.
That was fun. Will you give us your best spiel on soy? I’ve heard good and bad things about soy for a long time. What do you have to say?
https://www.marksdailyapple.com/soy-scrutiny/
Hey Mark,
I get the argument against wheat, rye, and barley (especially for Celiac Disease sufferers). What about rice? From what I’ve read and from what my friend who has Celiac Disease, rice is safe and as long as it’s not enriched with a wheat-based additive and you’re sure to wash/polish the rice before cooking (something that all Asian’s do and from what I’ve read, it removes a great deal of the lectins as well), you’re good to go.
Hmm…sounds like Rice might be good for an endurance athlete for post-workout and/or possibly mid-workout replenishment when glucose stores are tapped out (although tubers would work too).
Jon, rice is a great source of cheap carbohydrate that readily converts to glucose. Full stop. Rice is not a good source of any other nutrient. On the spectrum of worst to “least worst” I suppose rice is less offensive than wheat, rye, corn, etc. but only because it is lower in the other antinutrients.
Oh yeah, back when I first gave up grains, I also gave up corn. Throughout my grain relapses, the only time I’ve relapsed on corn was while eating polenta because I didn’t realize that’s what it was I didn’t really have a reason for giving up corn. It just seemed starchy and unnecessary. What’s your opinion on corn?
Benji, corn is as bad or worse than any other grain. Iowa corn growers don’t even eat corn (as quoted in “king Corn” movie)
You know, meat is a touchy subject. Grok was the prey for a long time before he was the predator. When humans finally started eating meat, it was scavenged meat in very small amounts and was usually regurgitated due to food-poisoning. Meat is important. But, sitting down to a huge steak isn’t exactly easy on the digestive system. Small amounts of meat are a much healthier option. Also, large game was a no-no for a lengthy period of time after Grok and his family finally learned to hunt together. Red meat was almost always eaten in small amounts. Seafood wasn’t all difficult to come by, but fish was dangerous to try and catch. Think about it. Bears.
I have no idea where you get your information, but it is certainly in conflict with what most of the records show.
Think about it, Mark. Bears. Maybe he meant that Grok and his kin would have eaten the bears, too, as well as the fish? Yeah, I think that’s what he meant.
On a more serious note: it’s a somewhat controversial issue, but some would attribute the relative absence of large mammals on earth to overhunting by humans in pre-agricultural days. In any case, any anthropologist will tell you that neanderthals, humans, and our immediate ancestors in the homo genus probably subsisted *mainly* on large ruminant mammals, like the aurochs – forerunner of cattle. (Aurochs, aurox, ox, get it?) So I have no idea where Benji gets his info. And, there’s even less reason to believe that they would have eaten “small portions” of Woolly Mammoth steaks (I mean, it’s got ‘mammoth’ in the name, how on earth do you even eat small portions?) because Grok and co. were presumably not tainted by the anti-red meat biases of nutritionists and dietitians…
That idea that humans killed off the megafauna is accepted in many academic circles but is under pretty serious debate in others. Just given the metabolic consequences of eating meat, including the typical hunger levels, I have a hard time believing paleolithic humans gorged on huge amounts of it. You’re just not that hungry on a meat diet, and as low as their fertility rates were, it wasn’t like each tribe had to feed a lot of people.
While we probably killed off a few species of megafauna, I don’t see how we killed them all.
However, climate change was going on when the megafauna were dying off, which is just as likely an explanation for their demise as anything.
Human beings are primates. The primate order is an insectivorous order. Even the so-called “vegetarian” gorillas and orangs pick nits from their fellows and offspring and eat them.
Bugs are meat. I know culinary and religious types don’t want to admit it, but it is. Insects are kingdom Animalia, period, full stop.
We were eating meat long before we started scavenging kills. By the way, we still eat our meat rotten. That’s what “aging” means.
Dana,
Just a quick note on this. I agree. Insects are meat. But according to what I’ve read about Dian Fossey’s observations, the insect eating by primates is a social/cultural thing. It’s not done for pure nutritive purposes.
There is an interesting article in today’s NYtimes.com about the megafauna issue. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/science/24fauna.html
” But, sitting down to a huge steak isn’t exactly easy on the digestive system. ”
That is completely false. It may have been true millions of years ago when we were beginning to add more meats to our diets but ask anyone with irritable bowel syndrome or inflammatory bowel disease which foods are 100% safe for them to eat even under severe inflammation and most of the time it’ll be meats, meats and more meats. (Unless said meat is drowning in man-made chemicals which said person is very sensitive to)
I,m not saying you should avoid all plants, just that between plants and natural animal flesh, animals are easier to digest
Could you maybe also do a post on dairy? I just showed this to all my non-paleo friends who were like wtf….why no grains? The next step I need is to also show them why I limit dairy. Thanks so much for your work!
I would also love to see this. I already ate mostly fruits/veggies/meat before I went full paleo, but I also indulged in greek yogurt, cheese, and the occasional slice of bread with tuna. I now have an awesome resource to point people to when they ask about my lack of grains, but still don’t have a really definitive, consolidated one for dairy.
“but the fundamental problem with grains is that they are a distinctly Neolithic food that the human animal has yet to adapt to consuming.”
>> Correct but there is a problem with your theory. There is a percent of population that is now ADEPT to eating grains. I know of a few people who can have a whole wheat bagel and bounce of walls. As for me, it puts me to sleep which is why I tend to avoid it as much as possible.
It’s a simple test. Eat a meal consisting of grains and notice how you feel. If you feel tired, grains aren’t for you. If you feel fine… you are one lucky ba**ard!
FitJerks, adept at eating grains is an interesting choice of words. Many people are adept at it but have still not adapted to it. Read some of the comments above from people who thought they were “adept” grain eaters for years, but only after they cut grains did they realize the impact grains had had on them. I say we are all unadapted to eating grains – it’s just that some of us manifest problems immediately while others (like myself) take 30 or 40 years to manifest.
And it’s not a simple test. I felt fine after every grain meal I ever ate. It was only after giving up grains that my mild arthritis disappeared, my occasional IBS disappeared and other subtle issues that I had chalked up to “age” or stress disappeared.
I have a question and, when I searched for an appropriate thread (I used “poison” and “grain” in my search) I was told it could find nothing. So I’m hoping to ask my question here. The thing that is holding me back from fully plunging into this new eating style (after being mostly vegetarian for years) is a question about one of the basics of the Primal philosophy: It seems that you are saying that grains are “poisonous” because they “don’t want” animals to eat them. As a lifelong professional biologist, it has been my understanding that grains are actually fruits of the grasses (grains are grasses of course), and they are designed to be edible and to be eaten by animals, and then transported far from the parent plant where some are defecated out in locations where they will sprout and not compete with the parent ! Where have I gone wrong here? (Now I have to hope that if I receive responses, I’ll know where to look to find them.) Thanks to anyone who can help. This is a major stumbling block for me. Bill
Bill,
A Google search for “grains botany” reveals that grains are technically fruits. Sort of. From fao.org, Botany of the wheat plant, “The seed, grain or kernel of wheat (more pedantically, the caryopsis) is a dry indehiscent fruit.” Note that in the case of wheat it is the seed itself that is eaten, not the fruit surrounding it. Also, dry indehiscent fruit sounds unappetizing or even inedible.
A search for “grains seed dispersal” showed that when ripe, the rachis holding the seeds together shatters in undomesticated grains, scattering the seeds. This feature was bred out of domesticated wheat, and highly domesticated wheat is unable to reproduce without human assistance. This suggests that grains do not rely on animals for seed dispersal, but rather just throw their seeds in all directions.
Finally, “wild grains seed dispersal” found http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17495170 “The role of wheat awns in the seed dispersal unit.” This shows that wild wheat seeds disperse themselves and even plant themselves. No animals necessary.
Also, instead of “poison”, try “lectins” and “anti-nutrients”. And you are much more likely to get a response by putting your question in the forum.
Fitjerks, its interesting how your words are literally a copy and paste of what Poliquin says about carbohydrates. Like Mark says, it may take YEARS for symptoms to manifest. I literally had the same issue as Mark with the occasional IBS, just though it was stress. Always seemed to happen when I was travelling too…fun stuff. Glad I figured all this stuff out early (22 years old, Primal for over a year now). Whether you “feel” anything from grains why bother consuming them when you could use those calories some much more efficiently by getting more from Fruits/Veggies?
Just because they don’t get tired doesn’t mean anything. A meal shouldn’t leave you bouncing off the walls anymore than it should leave you wanting a nap.
Caffeine makes you bounce off walls too. Doesn’t mean you should consume it all the time. If a food’s going to make me immediately experience an energy surge I’d ask myself what it’s doing to my hormone and neurotransmitter levels. And I probably wouldn’t like the answer.
Mark
would love to hear you opinions on sprouted grains and rice a la Weston Price, Nourishing Traditions
Hi Mark,
Thanks for this post. We had our first child nine months ago. Since then it’s been pretty much nothing but homemade baby food (fruits and vegetables) and breast milk (Tried rice once. Very constipating). During that time I have also taken to reduce my grain consumption and introduce more fruits and veggies.
For a while I thought my IBS and other digestive issues were due to a fructose sensitivity, but what I’m now finding is that reducing grains has help more than reducing fruits. I’m also learning more about salycilates. Have you done any research on that yet?
Anyway, as our baby grows, we are feeling intense pressure from our doctor to introduce grains into her diet (because doc claims she cannot get enough calories from fruits and veggies) and from the Italian grandparents who can’t wait to introduce her to pasta.
And quite honestly, the reason I haven’t eliminated grains completely from my diet is the cost. I’m finding it hard to entirely replace those calories with fruits and veggies without spending much more money. Same thing with my daughter. As she needs to eat more and more food, it’s very tempting to introduce grains for cost reasons.
Thanks for listening!
If you are feeding your baby breastmilk on demand she/he is getting all the calories she/he needs! Even at one year and beyond babies do not “need” grains or even really that much extra food. It is not uncommon for exclusively breastfed children to get around 80-95% of their calories from breastmilk at one year. Your child will be leaner than other children but that isn’t a bad thing.
Oh yeah, eat more fat. 🙂
We are Italian as well so I know what you mean about the grandparents! We love to throw grammy’s bolognese sauce over grilled eggplant and zuchinni! mmm. mmm. mmm! The kids love it b/c they’ve been raised to think eggplant and zuchinni’s are kid food. Our daughter (11) didn’t figure out that most kids wont eat such things until it was too late and she was already in love with them! As far as grammy goes, as long as we’re eating her home made sauce, she’s usually cool with it!
Also, Replace those calories with more fat. Our 11 year old plays very competitive club sports and requires enough calories to fuel her demanding (but rewarding) energy out put; Our 15 month old has just (in the last few months) begun really exploring his taste buds. Both love almond butter on bananas, ham and cheese slices, sliced tomatoes and mozarella, mashed cauliflower w/butter and one of their favorites- wild rice w/plain greek yogurt (true wild rice-which I believe was given the thumbs up by Mark in a previous post- not the wild rice blend). Hope some of those options prove helpful and Good Luck!!
please listen to your doctor!!
I’m going to add this post to my bookmarks, and pull it back up the next time I begin to forget that grains are NOT good for humans. Thanks, Mark!
Grains unhealthy ?
Let me read some bit of it.
Thanks
Cutting out most grains has definitely improved my health (fat loss, strength gain, and asthma symptoms gone). Recently I’ve added back in small amounts of oatmeal with no negative effects. I’m intrigued by the positive health benefits of beta-glucan in particular. This complex polysaccharide has been associated with improving immunity, reducing insulin resistance, reducing appetite, and lowering LDL levels (see http://bit.ly/4ooc2K and http://bit.ly/1WEuO3). If you don’t like or don’t want to eat oatmeal, you can also get beta-glucan from mushrooms, or take as a supplement.
Interestingly, the gluten in oats doesn’t seem to cause problems for most people who are gluten intolerant (http://bit.ly/2Iotzo).
Am I “grain apologist”? Maybe. 😉 For those of you who miss oatmeal, why not experiment and see how it effects you? I totally agree that humans don’t NEED grains for health.
Mark –
I do P90X, which I know you were involved in creating, and in fact P90X recommends adding whole grains into our diets. For example, oatmeal is a now a breakfast staple for me. Or, take a look at Tony Horton’s list of top 10 snacks (http://www.howtobefit.com/tony-horton-top-snacks.htm). Grains are definitely not a large majority of my current diet, but I do eat them.
So, definitely being a non-expert, how should I be interpreting this (very conflicting) information/advice ?
Thanks.
dfgh1234, do most of the P90X workouts and eat Primally!
Ok. I’m game. I’m on the “FatShredder” nutrition phase (remember that?) and so my protein to carb ratio it pretty high already, and if I replace a few grain based items with healthy fats and veggies I will be moving close to your primal guidelines.
But I have a follow-up question: Regarding the concept of the post-workout Recovery Drink (3:1 or 4:1 carbs:protein ratio), would you still recommend that ? The RD was/is highly recommended within P90X, yet it will be difficult to keep carbs below ~80g if using a RD.
dfgh1234, re: P90 I was paid to develop a drink for a workout program that called for intense work every day. That’s my profession (developing supplements to fit a demographic and a budget). That meant replacing carbs after every workout. The P90 program is NOT the same as the Primal Program. In PB, I don’t recommend training that hard every day, nor do I recommend eating that much carbohydrate every day…but if you choose to do P90X, you probably need to replace those burned carbs. Hence the RD.
In response to your second reply: Thanks very much Mark.
We are Primal P90Xers…the primal diet is so much yummier anyway!!
I should disclaim… I do not P90X every day, so I don’t have a need for RD’s. I have no muscle confusion…Tony Horton would be so disappointed! Either way, I have created my own schedule and incorporate the work outs into it. My fave’s are the core, plyometrics, and the yoga x. Once or twice a week, I challenge my 11 year old to 10 “sprint races”. We mark off point start and finish and she always kicks my butt! BUT, we have a great time!
I forget where I read this (probably a WAPF thing) but children fed oatmeal had significantly more cavities than children who ate non-grain based foods for breakfast, all other things being generally equal. Oats still have anti-nutrients in them and do not have that much in the way of nutrition to give back, even when soaked a la Weston A Price, especially compared to an egg.
It depends on the children. I found a free copy online of Price’s Nutrition and Physical Degeneration book and he found isolated cultures eating oatmeal. But they also had access to high amounts of dietary minerals. If you’re going to eat something chock-full of phytates (and oats are like that), you need to up your fat and mineral intakes to balance it out. Most people don’t do that because the heavy grain eaters are also cutting back their fat intake.
As a skinny SOB, I need to consume starch to remain as ‘thick’ as possible. What do you recommend – potatoes?
Mark,
My dad is always coming up with different reasons of why we should eat grains. He says man has been eating grains since the start of time. Every time I tell him, to a degree, exactly what you said in today’s post. That was perfect timing because there was solid evidence why grains are the worst! He did ask a question ,though, that I couldn’t answer. What did Grok do in the winter when there wasn’t a lot of readily available fruits and veggies?
Grok ate meat during the winter (and, well, all year round). Maybe some roots as well. Grains are only available naturally (i.e. not farmed) one or two months out of the year, and those months are not during the winter.
Although you probably won’t see it stated as such on this site, there is no dietary requirement for any kind of plant matter in the human diet. There are examples of modern day hunter-gatherers who lived entirely on meat. There are also examples of HGs who lived/live mostly on plants, seafood, and/or small animals, and they don’t rely on grains either, instead going for the roots, shoots, fruits and leaves of plants.
While I generally agree with what Icarus wrote, I’d clarify that modern HGs have been know to exist almost exclusively on Animals (not just meat). In fact, it is dangerous to only eat the meat (i.e., animal muscle tissue) and not also the organs if you are not consuming vegetables or coconut oil. We need fat and their nutrients, which are found at much higher ratios in the organs rather than in the muscle.
That’s what I meant… I forgot that most people don’t consider “meat” to include organs or fat. Meat is a weird word, anyway; some don’t consider it to include poultry or fish, even. (I do.) You are right in that fat mostly hangs outside the organs (visceral fat like leaf lard) and on the back (subcutaneous fat like bacon grease) on wild animals, although of course the most prized cuts of meat, like rib or loin meat, will contain a good amount of fat as well. Fat-soluble vitamins are stored when consumed in excess, so much fat at every meal and occasional liver (high in vitamins A and K2, and a bazillion other nutrients) is definitely recommended IF one were to try to live this way, as some no-carbers do. Which I think is kinda unnecessary, but definitely do-able if done properly.
Thanks for the clarifications, though. 🙂
I’ve been wondering, grains are indeed bad to eat, but how about oatmeal baths ?
Lazar, I would DEFINITELY not eat an oatmeal bath.
Lol, ok, I was concerned that maybe grains are bad for the skin also. Guess not
So how do you answer to Asians (Japanese in particular)who have white…I mean really white rice, as a regular part of there diet. I mean, they are some of the healthiest people in the world and live the longest.
The famous longevity of Japanese people through their lifestyle choices may be attributed to many factors e.g copious amounts of fish, stress mitigation… Yes they live long and yes they eat lots of white rice but correlation does not imply causation. Imagine how long they might live if they didn’t eat all that rice!
And forget not the seaweed which provides a heaping amount (by American standards) of iodine and other minerals.
IIUC Japanese levels of iodine would be considered toxic in America.
They still get hardening of the arteries and that’s not due to Westernization. A study was done after WWII comparing autopsies of Japanese and American soldiers and found roughly equivalent levels of artery-hardening. There were more Japanese eating traditional diets at that time than there are now.
And believe it or not there’s a diabetes epidemic brewing over there. Funny how it hasn’t picked up much press here.
I’m not sure what their traditional fat intake is like but they eat so much seafood that they probably get a relatively high mineral intake compared to us. They also eat a lot of vegetables, and they love pickled foods. These all make a difference.
Oh, I should add that the traditional way of making rice over there is different from how we do it. They wash their rice and soak it overnight. I don’t know how many antinutrients are left in polished white rice, but soaking it in vinegar, an acidic medium, would do away with whatever was left after the bran was removed.
Dana Carpender, a low-carb writer, says she’s heard that rice causes a lower insulin response than other grains. I don’t know if that’s true but it’s an interesting idea. If I’m in ketosis from low-carbing and eat rice I can usually stay in ketosis as long as I don’t eat huge amounts.
excellent post as always, much fire.
I have two very tangential issues to raise.
Grains are equally bad if not worse for our pets, and I would urge anyone listening to find one of the grain-free, by-product free pet foods out there for your little guys.
On a much more frivolous note, i’ve been good about ditching grains but there is an undeniable, near primal, male urge to turn anything into a sandwich.
I’m down to ezekial sprouted grain english muffins with all excess muffin forked out–just enough crust to hold pastured butter and then it becomes my blt or egg mcmuffin or my po’ boy sausage with mustard.
man’s gotta have a sandwich.
Better yet, ditch the whole kibble idea and feed fresh, whole foods in the form of meat, edible bone and organs to your canine and feline friends! Anyone looking to do so, can contact me privately for help. I’ve fed a “primal diet” to my dog pack and one cat for over 9 years now.
Laura,
I am interested in your pet’s diet (I have 2 cats); please send info. Thank you.
Hi,
Thanks for offering and sharing your guidance on the primal diet for our wonderful pets. I just rescued a 5 year old golden retriever. Right now I am feeding him natural balance brown rice and lamb. I have given him red meat and chicken…but seems to have a very fragile intestinal track and gets diarrheah….(live in an apt…blah blah blah)….anyways… would love for you to share your lovesly wisdom.
Warm hugs,
Keren
Orijen is an excellent high protein grain free pet food which I use for my two cats.
My youngest one, a pure bred Maine Coon is getting really big on it!
Could you use a large, strong variety of lettuce leaf as bread substitute?
I remember reading about the introduction of modern fast-food and fast-food wrappers in some country somewhere, and how the wrappers caused pollution problems as they used edible biodegradable leaves (banana leaf???) as wrappers before McD’s invaded their towns
Blue whale jerky?
I saw this posted above but didn’t see a response unless I missed it.
“if we’re avioding cereal grains, i.e. all seeds of the grass family are we avoiding Asparagus also?
Kitty wrote on November 6th, 2009Reply”
is Asparagus ok? I just want to check since I love it. I could basically have it at every meal and be happy haha.
Thanks in advance, Rob
I guess people are too lazy to type “asparagus” into Google and select the Wikipedia page reference to it. From that page: “Asparagus officinalis is a flowering plant species in the genus Asparagus from which the vegetable known as asparagus is obtained. It is native to most of Europe, northern Africa and western Asia.[1][2][3] It is now also widely cultivated as a vegetable crop.”
I.E., asparagus is not a grass. Eat up!
PS. Why this question in particular? ‘Cause it looks a little bit like grass?
Hmmm, according to what I’ve read, Asparagus is a grass. It might be outdated info, but that’s what I read. Now WHERE I read it is anybody’s guess. I read all over the net and books by the handsful so… I ask questions. and when I go to tell someone what I read here, I won’t be able to tell them where I got that either. It’s a curse, I can remember WHAT I read, but not WHERE I read it.
“I can remember WHAT I read, but not WHERE I read it.”
Welcome to the information overload revolution.
I even preserve a lot of stuff. You should see the mess that’s my [Mac] desktop, etc.
Asparagus is a shoot – the very young, very early protrusion of a plant stem. Shoots are nearly always mentioned as one of the plant foods that hunter-gatherers, modern and ancient, would have pretty easy access to, so feel free to eat up. 🙂
Also, being that it’s a green vegetable, it’s very, very low in carbohydrate, even fiber, because the plant is so young. Much lower than any grain, which grow quicker because, as annual plants, they have very short lifespans. It’s also one of my very favorite veggies, so I may be a teensy bit biased, but nothing I’ve said is untrue, so, again, eat up.
I took my kid to the grocery store the other day. It’s great going through the produce aisle and telling him about all of the vegetables and fruits (even though it’s still a struggle to get him to try them). We’ve nicknamed Broccoli the King of All Vegetables, and Asparagus the Queen of All Vegetables.
I like that! Mind if I copy cat?
This post is a good read and your line is a great way to get kids on the stuff. There might be a few people swiping your line now!
Too bad asparagus makes certain bodily secretions taste bad…
I ditched gluten over 6 years ago and had a fantastic improvement in health. I soon realized that I feel even better when I avoid all grains and sugars. My diet now is mostly paleo-like.
Oatmeal often contains high amounts of gluten from cross contamination. If one has celiac disease or gluten sensitivity it is recommended that only certified gluten free oats be consumed. But it is a grain so I avoid oats too.
Article about The Dark Side of Wheat http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Dark-Side-of-Wheat—New-Perspectives-on-Celiac-Disease-and-Wheat-Intolerance&id=1818855
I have a question about your anti-toxins section. As veggies are also plants, shouldn’t they have massive anti-toxins also?
This has been perplexing me for a while. It’s clear that the seeds would really not want to be eaten, but shouldn’t the arms and legs of plants also have a defensive mechanism?
We’ve clearly seen that in nightshades and what not… so how does that work into the picture?
SJ, we’ve been eating fruits and vegetables for millions of years and have truly adapted to the compounds found in some of them (even though many don’t really resemble the original plant forms because we have selectively grown them for sweetness and taste).
These compounds (phenols like flavonoids and ellagic acid or organosulfides like sulphorophane, indols like allicin, etc) may have been part of those plants defenses, but for us they have antioxidant and other protective benefits because we adapted to them. Grains and legumes have defensive compounds to which we have NOT yet fully adapted.
Folks are mistakenly listing quinoa as a grain. Quinoa is not a grain; it’s a seed that contains all of the essential amino acids, so it’s a fantastic source of protein. If one is concerned about potential phytic acid content of quinoa, simply rinse before cooking. As a competitive bodybuilder and mixed martial artist, I eat 2 cups of quinoa every day. Amaranth and raw buckwheat groats also contain all of the essential amino acids, so i would definitely include those are acceptable foodstuffs, though quinoa is the best.
Ok then answer me this?
How am I suppose to make a sandwich?
I don’t do many grains but dang?!?!
Learn not to have sandwiches.
Use lettuce for a wrap. If you must have something that’s more like bread, do a Google search for “oopsie roll.” A lady named Jamie VanEaton worked out her own version of Atkins’s old homemade low-carb rolls using eggs and cream cheese. OK, not primal maybe, but they work in a pinch.
Dennis, why do you assume you need to have a sandwich as part of a healthy diet? A sandwich was always intended just to be a vehicle to eat the good stuff that was between the bread. Why not just eat that? I haven’t had a sandwich for 10 years and don’t miss the concept one bit.
It just makes it easier to carry?!?!? lol
Mark, my thoughts are with the very rigorous workout outs (P90X) 6 days a week, carbs are essential. I know I have to change my thinking, but quite a shift especially when I have a family that thinks I am nuts…
However, I didn’t realize how grains weren’t not a natural dietary process.
A whole lot of new information to digest.
As an undiagnosed celiac for about 45 years, now diagnosed and gluten-free for 3.5yrs+, grain-free for 1yr+, I must mention the importance of KNOWING if you are celiac before going grain-free. Many posts describe symptoms of celiac (bloating, IBS, gas, arthritis etc); going grain-free is great, but if you cheat once in a while you’re undiagnosed celiac/gluten ingestion continues to harm your body and put you at higher risk for GI cancers and lymphomas.
I wish I’d known 20 years ago (at least) about this stuff, too. *wahhh*
My integrative MD finally went full gluten-free 4-5 mos. ago (not sure about grain-free) and notices great improvement in her joints (she notices when she challenges it by eating pizza – she’d previously attributed it to sodium or cheese…).
Also, to the person who asked about introducing grains to an infant, there is discussion in the celiac community to wait until at least 1 yr (Dr. Fasano’s doing a 20 yr clinical trial – only in yr. 2), or discuss this with a good allergist. You might consider your family history. Google “Dr. Fasano baby grains” and/or visit celiac.com for discussions. Not everyone on celiac.com is a gold-standard biopsy proven celiac, btw.
As a celiac I really appreciate this info getting out there to support my current lifestyle choice. Thanks Mark :).
I forgot: even though I’m mostly Paleo, I still eat yogurt. I still have inflammation (latest hsCRP is 6.something, down from 12.something, not sure why). Not sure if it’s the celiac, hypothyroidism, dairy or what. My legs feel full of lactic acid no matter what I try (exercise exaccerbates it). It takes a week to recover from heavy exercise. Any ideas?
Also, this might be of interest to some with grain symptoms relieved by Paleo:
http://www.recognizingceliacdisease.com/21.html
I was always puffy around the middle and grumbling in the intestines until I gave up grains by reading your website. It was like a total change in my shape… All of the sudden my midsection got flat in a hurry and I didn’t feel like crap all the time.
TrailGrrl
I’ve always had a gut feeling that I should just eat meat and vegetables. I don’t feel full and bloated like I do when I eat grains. Since I quit the grains I have felt SO much better, and my cravings for starchy foods have simply disappeared.
I’m just wondering about the marathon runner or the person who needs extreme energy / carbs. They tell me they can’t cut out the pastas or grains. Is there really a reason to eat grain for more energy is there another means to attain the same result?
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Chris: As a Masters All-American marathoner, I can tell you that the Primal approach grains has had a net-zero impact on me, in terms of energy. We cannot overfill our tanks with carbs and expect to gain any benefit from it, right. If all carbs are depleted between 30-120 minutes from the time we start running, does it make sense to carb-load in any event? I don’t carb-load before a race, except to eat Gu Gels immediately before, during, and immediately afte a race. This way, I’m recruiting those carbs for energy when I need them. There is a school of thought that states hat all carbs are gone within 4 hours of ingenstion anyway, so, if we buy into that, why would we carb-load.
All I needed was a viewing of the movie Food Inc and that made me realize how BAD grains are (despite conventional wisdom, I work in health care).
Thanks for the reminder Mark.
PS: I did the whole vegan thing years ago currently paleo and loving it!!
My wife is vegetarian but pretty much eats grains and soy meat replacements. Her cholesterol is through the roof. Ive been trying to get her off of grains for some time, now Ill start trying again.
Mark,
I’m curious if you might do a similar post on legumes. I have seen contradictory evidence that often points to beans being unhealthy for some of the same reasons as grains……..
For those of us who still like grains every so often, may I suggest Xtreme Wellness! High Fiber, Low Carb Tortilla Wraps by Ole Mexican Foods (no, I am not employed by them). Remarkably, they have 5 grams of carbohydrates, 12 grams of fiber and 8 grams of protein for each wrap and are very satisfying. They also contain no sugar, no lard, and no cholesteral. I think they have hit the nail on the head with these.
Too bad they don’t have lard.
Are they flour tortillas or corn tortillas?
I think you might’ve missed the point of this site.
I agree, next to extra-virgin olive oil lard is the healthiest cooking oil.
Also, “low cholesterol” is meaningless… so is the claim that they contain no sugar – carbs are sugars as far as your body is concerned.
And the fiber grams may be a little too high for people who have problems with too much fiber.
However, asides from that it is worth a try if you can’t find something better, really want a good greasy dark leaf and meat-filled tortilla and follow the 80/20 rule
“think about it. bears.”
lmfao.
I agree that we have not evolved to eat grains, but if I’m going to be completely honest with myself, I also admit we have not evolved to eat meat–despite the fact that I continue to eat meat daily.
While I love Mark’s blog and Primal blueprint for helping people with practical dietary re-balancing in a cultural context, it’s hard not to agree with Lauri Forti’s posts on human’s true natural diet from the evolutionary biology perspective:
http://www.ecologos.org/omni.htm
The common thread in paleo/primal and raw diets is the elimination of grains and dairy, which is why I’ve decided to work towards those, instead of elimination of meat.
Not sure what you mean by “it’s hard not to agree with Lauri Forti.” I just went to that site to review her argument. She has her agenda, and I can’t fault her for that, but she has no idea what she’s talking about. None. It’s all typical vegan/vegetarian convoluted drivel. Talons, fangs, claws, etc.
Human beings are primates. The primate order is an insectivore order. Bugs are meat. Look it up. Kingdom Animalia.
We *are* meat-eaters. In fact, we owe our large brains to meat-eating. We’re just not obligate carnivores like cats–we get by with some plant food, like dogs do.
If we’re not meant to eat meat than why is 0 carb 0 fiber organic meat the safest food choice I can have with my inflammatory bowel disease? Why is my immune system attacking germs and particles when I eat grains, nuts, etc. and in sever cases even has a hard time of processing salads but I’m perfectly fine with meats?
Yet another amazing post Mark!
Wow…you’re asking to do away with centuries of tradition! How would the French (and many other cultures) deal with this and all their traditions of good bread? And…they are overall healthier than we trendy, food-faddish Americans.
The bread and the sweets are why there are any fat French at all–and trust me, there are. But they eat so much more animal fat than we do. If they didn’t smoke, they’d leave us in the dust.
Hi all,
I removed sugar and grains from my diet since January,
stopped fruits since march,
I have been eating non-starchy vegetables,fish,fowl and lamb (not organic or free-range) since June this year.
Started portion control in protein since 15 days to take 59gms protein per day which is my lean muscle mass weight..( as a result I am able to stop eating easily when I am satisfied without uncontrollable feeling of wanting to eat more ,which often lead to binge eating…)
I feel like my insulin level has come down a lot in 15 days ..I was showing symptoms of hyperinsulinemia last year .Not anymore..no more binge eating these days.Also I eat only two or three meals a day.
My fasting blood sugar shows 85mg/dl and postprandial BS is between 97-105 mg/dl after any meal .
Blood pressure 115/75 mmHg ( last year 130/90 )
But today my lipids showed the worst result..
TC- >500.. (checked three times) , last year it was140 mg/dl
TG- 132 mg/dl
HDL- 42 mg/dl
I am an Asian male of 38 years..
Resistance training with weights ,also 30-40 minute walks most days of the week.
Could anyone please explain why my lipids could be at such dangerously abnormal levels?
Does it take so much time for lipids to become normal ?Should I wait for a few more weeks and check again?
Thanks, Krish
( just don’t want to go on medication )
Krish… if you go to the forum on this site and check it out there are some posts on blood pressure. Apparently when your HGL is low it throws off the calculations they use to figure out your total Cholesterol levels. There’s more detailed information in the forums, so really… go there and check it out!
OK, overall, there’s probably no reason to worry about your cholesterol. The overall number could mean anything from day to day because every cell in your body makes cholesterol. Your body needs it, so it keeps it around. Could be that in your particular instance it’s using all that cholesterol as repair material for whatever damage you’d done to yourself in the past.
Meanwhile let me share some recommendations from Dr. Michael Eades’s new book. Check these:
Apo-B: If this goes down but your LDL stays the same or goes up, it means your LDL particle size is larger, which is a good thing.
Lp(a): Below 30mg/dl
HDL vs TG: Divide your TG number by your HDL number. If the result is less than 5, that’s also a good sign.
Or you could ask your doc to get the lab test that counts LDL particles directly, because the usual method is to use an equation that, as the other commenter stated, is skewed by low triglycerides. Direct count of LDL is expensive, though, and your insurance may or may not cover it.
You could also try eating more saturated fat and cholesterol, odd as that sounds. If you’re eating it, your body doesn’t need to make as much of it.
what about alcohol? is it really a bad thing to consume?
Alcohol is used to disnfect because it saps alot of moisture from bacteria and cells, which kills them. If you consume alcohol make sure you’re hydrated first, and eat some probiotics to replenish your gut flora, as well as antioxidants to repair the cell damage it does in your body. (yes, it saps the moisture and kills cells in your body too – which is why chronic overconsumption can cause brain damage and kill liver cells faster than they can regenerate. It,s also why alcoholics sometimes have really ugly messed-up skin – alcohol is even used to harden and cure leather if I remember correctly)
I don’t know at which point alcohol stops being a minor nuisance to your body and becomes a major helath-damaging threat, but I’d suggest to drink in moderation. (Also, I should mention that I’m not an expert in these things, just a laywoman that likes to read things)
Then, there’s the problem of grain-based alcohols… drink red wine if you can – it’s generally healthy. Also, drink hard liquor like vodka instead of beer – it’ll have less grains/carbs.
Not to be glib or snarky but, it’s a toxin is it not?
A toxin is by definition a “bad” thing to consume. How bad may depend on dose, and body type and other factors, but it’s probably more unhealthy than, say, Milk.
Different toxins do different things. I was reading a paleo blog yesterday where they were talking about that. Seems most mammals enjoy getting intoxicated and pursue it whenever they can. And our bodies are well-equipped to process alcohol, whereas they are not equipped to process phytic acid or enzyme inhibitors, which are the toxins present in grains.
And let’s not forget herbal medicine, which we have used for most of our species history and which depends on self-defense toxins present in many plants.
You can lead people to water, Mark… but they’re still going to choose the soda.
Love ya, man. Don’t let the tofurkeys get you down.
Wow, let me guess… you haven’t read “Good Calories, Bad Calories” by Gary Taubes yet?
Synopsis: A compilation of decades (pushing a century and a half, if memory serves) of research that refute that exact, ridiculous premise (among others).
Caloric deficits do not work. Thermodynamics and metabolism are not so simple-minded. If portion sizes were the key, everyone who ever tried a caloric-deficit eating plan would lose weight.
(Oh, and is coming to my website and leaving trollish comments really necessary? I think not. Let’s just be civil, okay?)
I personally believe in quality not quantity. I’m not about “losing weight” I’m about being strong and healthy. If I’m hungry I’m going to eat as much paleo food as I need WITHOUT fear of “gaining weight” because it just doesn’t happen when you eliminate grains from your diet.
Been there done that, everything but fruitarian and I’ll tell you this is the only way to go.
Grain free and loving it
WE are already stressed out with the work we have. I can’t eat 8 tiny PORTION SIZES as you say throughout the day, I am a normal human being that can have say 4-5 meal max heartily . I can’t carry a journal that counts what i eat, the number of calories etc. and get stressed about it. If you even know how a grok eats, he doesn’t need 5000 calories to stay full, he’ll eat whenever he’s hungry and
drink when thirsty, thats how human beings evolved for millions of years. Guess what Steroids,pills,supplements would just be better than eating at McD to get ripped or lose fat. but thats not the point, its about natural,healthy living.
40 yrs of accumulated BS in your gut that you call “research” is better than how our DNA was designed to be for 40,000 + yrs?
Thanks Michelle .I will try that.
If insulin is present in the bloodstream at sufficient levels, yes, it will promote fat storage. That’s its *job.* It’s a storage hormone. Calories have nothing to do with it. Over and over I talk to fat people who say they eat very little and yet they can’t dump their fat stores. I have experienced this myself. Insulin is the reason. As long as it’s elevated, REGARDLESS OF YOUR CALORIC INTAKE, you will not lose weight.
Try looking at the reverse to understand this: how many fat type 1 diabetics have you ever met, who couldn’t blame it on an incorrect insulin dose?
So my being able to eat almost three thousand calories a day of low-carb food and still lose weight doesn’t mean anything to you? I’m a hundred pounds overweight, by the way. (The only reason I am is I keep jumping off the wagon. I blame no one but me, I’m just “telling it like it is.”)
Prove it. Calling Taubes names does nothing but discredit you. Proof. Real proof held up by the experiences of real people.
I’m 5’6″ and in the 240s weight range and sedentary. According to your low-fat diet quacks I should be eating something like 1000-1500 calories a day. I don’t have to eat that little. I can eat three full meals a day and the weight still starts coming off. And I don’t exercise more either. There are benefits to the right kind of exercise, but weight loss isn’t one of them unless you’re killing your lean mass.
Spurlock consumed too much sugar and vegetable oil. I can lose fat eating at fast food places–I ditch the buns, avoid the fries, and don’t touch the sugary drinks.
A bunless Baconator with Caesar side salad at Wendy’s is one of my staple going-out meals when I’m low-carbing. Yum, yum, yum.
Obviously, you haven’t paid attention to the science behind fat loss. I call troll.
Those 40 years of accumulated research are based on faulty premises which cannot be supported with current data. Try reading recent research and you’ll find a very different picture.
But as you’re a troll, I doubt you’ll do anything of the sort. Keep peddling your grains, honey. I’m not buying.
Jane, I’ve lost 50 pounds in three months doing nothing but eating low-carb. Apparently Lyle doesn’t know his stuff when it comes to people with metabolisms like mine.
Let me give you a free clue: You won’t succeed with your “arguments,” such as they are, on this site. Everyone here is wise to the idiocy of conventional nutritional thinking, and isn’t going to be convinced back. So give it up, honey – you don’t know what you’re talking about.
And to demonstrate that you’re not going to convince me, I’m not going to read or respond to anything else you write, because frankly, I have far more important things to do with my time than waste it on a CW troll. Bye-bye now.
Ok can someone please tell me what “CW” stands for?
Conventional Wisdom
It seems like almost every thread I’ve ever read on the internet has ended in some heated argument.
I agree that it is annoying and sometimes infuriating to be preached to about nutrition by a person who has no concept of a variety of metabolic rates and conditions.
However, not everything that isn’t stated in this site qualifies as conventional wisdom. Many of the people who comment on these threads tend to just be repeating what they’ve read here or elsewhere, and that is how conventional wisdom develops and becomes a problem.
for 2 years i have been eating oats and steel cut oats….or have been trying to eat them every couple days. was very bothered by the fact that i coudl produce enough natural gas to fuel my house for the winter after eating them. thought i had issues with not processing them. so glad i came across your informaiton. i am throwing them away. no more gas!
thanks
I love my toast. I love my sandwiches. I love my white rice. I love my cereal, it’s the only way my body can tollerate milk. I also believe in everything in moderation. With that in mind, I see nothing wrong with having a turkey sandwish along with a glass of orange juice or apple juice. (I’m broke, can’t afford all the over the top prices of so many “healthy foods”.)
If the human digestive system hasn’t evolved, then why do we no longer need our appendix?
* sorry I suck at spelling. That’s a legitimate question btw, not sarcasum.
Kasey ~ Perhaps we do need our appendix. It has been proposed that the appendix gives a “safe house” to the good gut bacteria and these can be used to recolonize our intestine after exposure to a pathogen. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17936308
Even though we may be able to live without all our body parts, that doesn’t mean they don’t serve a purpose. We have not discovered everything about how our bodies work.
As far as healthy food costing more, I have found my improved health is worth every cent. I am also saving money by visiting my doctors less often.
If you are having trouble tolerating milk(except with cereal), you may want to listen to what your body is telling you. I don’t eat grains as I am gluten sensitive and feel better off all grains. I don’t drink juices or eat rice as they will cause my blood sugar to spike. Again, we have to listen to our bodies.
Grains are terrible! This is the TRUTH. Its easy to see just look at chinese and japanese cultures, all they eat is rice and use wheat to make other stuff like dumplings, and just look at their life spans and cancer rates and diseases. sickness and disease are running rampid through they’re 5000 year history
Something tells me that you’re not Asian and that you should re-check your facts about the culture and diet. Wheat is a more recent thing due to Western influences, but rice has been a main staple in the diet for thousands of years and the longevity of the elderly in all Asian countries is relatively high (much higher than in the US and Europe). It was only when Western influences happened is when things turned south. I’m not just talking about diet, lifestyle changes happened as well but on a more intense scale (i.e. more desk jockeys working 16 hour days with no vacations and high amounts of stress). But that seems to be only in metro areas within Asia at best. You start expanding further and incorporate the rural areas and you’ll see that the countries as a whole are still living a hell of a lot more cleaner than the US.
Did you ever think about how many people smoke in China?
It’s not often that we will take drastic action with a commenter, since we encourage debate. In fact, there actually aren’t that many naysayers out there. Having said that, you’ll note that we have removed comments from Jane Carraro, MichaelS, Rick Santos and Lisa because a) they are all the same person and b) he/she just couldn’t play nice.
Boo! Hiss!
(just kidding)
But then we might not get to hear the cool response’s like Griff’s…
Aww, WIWR, you flatter me. Trolls bring out the snark in me. I’m not sure sometimes whether that’s a good thing or not.
You do have a point, you don’t need grains but don’t sway the facts to make it seem like they are unhealthy. I have actually never met a single healthy person in my life who did not eat a healthy amount of whole grain foods. Processed grains are crap, agreed and sandwiches are delicious. Odds are, however, your diet will lead to cancer somewhere along your digestive tract soo….. have a nice time with that.
I just want to point out that the comment from “Griff” about “swaying the facts about grains” is NOT me posting. As you can see, my avatar does not appear on the comment, and it’s my belief that the person in question is trolling and using my name on purpose.
Grains have been repeatedly shown to do damage to the gastrointestinal tract and to the connective tissues. Look up “lectins” and “leaky gut syndrome” for a real kick.
As for cancer, it’s not caused by eating meat and fat. It’s been repeatedly shown that glucose – which grains break down into in the body – is what feeds cancer cells. Cancer cells can’t process ketones; their mitochondria simply don’t have the capability to process anything but glucose, where normal cells can process either glucose or ketones (along with short- and medium-chain fatty acids). Stop eating grains and other foods that break down into glucose, and you’ll halt cancer in its tracks because you’ll starve the cancerous cells.
Maybe you didn’t read the fiber article all the way through, but they said it was a GOOD THING. Actually, they said that right after your quote. And your Salad doesn’t have any nutritional info except the macronutrients. And really, overall, your article is simply wrong information. Our bodies are made to digest everything, just occasionally people have dysfunctions. Like people are allergic to something. 1% of the population doesn’t account for everyone quite obviously.
I feel bad for all of the people who read this and think that they should avoid whole grains because they didn’t look into your research.
Don’t just assume you are the only one who read the article.
If you examine what the they are ACTUALLY saying is that, okay the grains cause damage to the tract but it’s fine because the tract will create mucus and repair itself quickly.
At what point does the research say that it is beneficial to the body to go through this process? They just say, the body recovers. Why would we need to damage the tract in the first place? Thrive not survive.
Please try not to think because you are the only one with your opinion it is purely because you are the only one to read the article.
Just reading all of these comments are just making me angrier. Please read the articles he links, he is only taking what he wants to hear from them. The fiber roughing about our tract is a good thing because it is creating mucus, if you read the full article. That in itself should tell you that you should not trust him and he is going to twist words and facts in order to sell his book.
Mucus is created as a response to an irritant. It’s purpose is trap harmful substances.
Know your subject before you run your mouth.
It is also produced as a lubricant, which is why it’s all over the alimentary canal. It also protects the stomach from gastric acid.
Unless you’re suggesting that the purpose of mucus is to trap foods and acids required for the digestion of those foods I’d suggest you follow your own suggestion.
I think you may be confusing mucous with bile…
I’m right there with you man. It’s like “scientists” tell me I need white blood cells. These white blood cells crash into bacteria and literally kill themselves, exploding inside of me to fight bacteria.
Exploding inside me? Yeah right. It doesn’t take a scientist to know that exploding is bad, and exploding inside of me is worse. I plan on going in to the doctor and asking them to take my white blood cells out.
I mean who knows more right? Some guy who spent his whole life studying “science” or people like you or me – real guys on the street who really understand what is going on.
Keep on fighting the brain washing man. Your common sense is a breath of fresh air.
I agree – they are already doing something similar to this with cholesterol and statin drugs… darn pesky cholesterol going around repairing the damage we’ve done to our bodies… just like everytime you get sick you get a bunch of white blood cells everytime your tissues get damaged you get a bunch of cholesterol – it’s about time doctors discovered cholesterol’s strong association with cell membrane damage and started getting rid of that stuff, but as you say they need to put more effort into eliminating white blood cells which are often associated with disease and infections
Bread Kills!
1. More than 98 percent of convicted felons are bread users.
2. Fully HALF of all children who grow up in bread-consuming households score below average on standardized tests.
3. In the 18th century, when virtually all bread was baked in the home, the average life expectancy was less than 50 years; infant mortality rates were unacceptably high; many women died in childbirth; and diseases such as typhoid, yellow fever, and influenza ravaged whole nations.
4. Every piece of bread you eat brings you nearer to death.
5. Bread is associated with all the major diseases of the body. For example, nearly all sick people have eaten bread. The effects are obviously cumulative:
* 99.9% of all people who die from cancer have eaten bread.
* 100% of all soldiers have eaten bread.
* 96.9% of all Communist sympathizers have eaten bread.
* 99.7% of the people involved in air and auto accidents ate bread within 6 months preceding the accident.
* 93.1% of juvenile delinquents came from homes where bread is served frequently.
6. Evidence points to the long-term effects of bread eating: Of all people born before 1839 who later dined on bread, there has been a 100% mortality rate.
7. Bread is made from a substance called “dough.” It has been proven that as little as a teaspoon of dough can be used to suffocate a lab rat. The average American eats more bread than that in one day!
8. Primitive tribal societies that have no bread exhibit a low incidence of cancer, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s disease, and osteoporosis.
9. Bread has been proven to be addictive. Subjects deprived of bread and being fed only water begged for bread after as little as two days.
10. Bread is often a “gateway” food item, leading the user to “harder” items such as butter, jelly, peanut butter, and even cold cuts.
11. Bread has been proven to absorb water. Since the human body is more than 90 percent water, it follows that eating bread could lead to your body being taken over by this absorptive food product, turning you into a soggy, gooey bread-pudding person.
12. Newborn babies can choke on bread.
13. Bread is baked at temperatures as high as 400 degrees Fahrenheit! That kind of heat can kill an adult in less than one minute.
14. Most bread eaters are utterly unable to distinguish between significant scientific fact and meaningless statistical babbling.
In light of these frightening statistics, we propose the following bread restrictions:
1. No sale of bread to minors.
2. A nationwide “Just Say No To Toast” campaign, complete celebrity TV spots and bumper stickers.
3. A 300 percent federal tax on all bread to pay for all the societal ills we might associate with bread.
4. No animal or human images, nor any primary colors (which may appeal to children) may be used to promote bread usage.
5. The establishment of “Bread-free” zones around schools.
Are you sure it’s bread…. or women’s suffrage which is causing all these ills? It fits the timeframe.
This post proves 2 thiings: 1) It’s possible to “prove” anything you want using statistics, including the conventional wisdom the conventional wisdom thrown at of for 60 years and 2) It’s possible to be right for all the wrong reasons
Some caveats:
Indigestible fiber (not necessarily from grains, but from other vegetable matter) feeds your intestinal flora. The latter colonize your gut and work in tandem with your own immune system to keep pathogens from gaining a foothold, via “competitive exclusion.”
The friendly flora also make a certain amount of nutrients and energy from food more available to you, by digesting stuff you yourself can’t. They also seem to have a powerful role to play in warding off cancer and other diseases (see http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/12/butyric-acid-ancient-controller-of.html)
Also, Remer and Manz’s studies on “Potential Renal Acid Load” make a quite compelling case for the direct effects of dietary minerals on resulting internal pH balance, which seems to have serious implications for health and fitness. Long story short: some things you eat are acidifying (esp. high protein food), others are alkalizing (green vegetable matter), and you want to maintain a judicious balance between them.
You can get a sense of how to maintain this balance by reviewing a table like http://www.thepaleodiet.com/nutritional_tools/acid.shtml
What for? Enlighten us!
One of the most important things to note about the USDA Food Pyramid is that it’s put out by the US Department of AGRICULTURE. They have a vested interest in putting out the food pyramid as they do.
I don’t know where to start. I just finished reading Marks’s article about unhealthy whole grains. I’m an obsessive-compulsive, binge eating, food addicted soul who has spent her entire life up and down, and all over the scale. Not to mention the food pyramid! My weight is out of control once more, and I’m currently suffering a sciatic injury. When I visited my chiropractor the other day he swore me OFF ALL WHOLE GRAINS. I didn’t want to believe; I want to retaliate(for some reason); I have fear, doubt, and skepticism? I’ve been sitting here on the computer looking up neagative arguments against whole grains in the diet, and I stumbled upon Mark’s article. I have to say, you’re the first to put things so easily understandable, and I wanted to thank you for that. I feel I want to dip my toe into the pool. Where does one start? Tell me what I CAN eat, not what NOT to eat, and why. Also how is best to prepare it. Recipes? These are practical ideas to help the masses buy into the truth; arming them with the tools necessary to take this plunge. Thank you.
Keep reading this site, and/or buy the Primal Blueprint and especially the Primal Cookbook if you want more guidance.
Also visit the forums.
a lot of controversy on this topic
Ok Mr. Sisson can you write out a list of foods that i can/should be eating? i would never have thought grains were unheathly 🙁 please include all foods from snacks and breakfast lunch and diner. Just a simple list i can reference to obviously if this is not too much trouble for you. If you can would you be able to include also foods i should not/never eat. thank you so much. Or if Mark can’t do this can someone else here help me out and show me a list? thanks again
-Mike
For the record I, personally, eat grains, whole grains, but I am taking seriously the possibilities suggested here, and doing my research. I have noticed that as I cut back on grains over the last 2 years and increased my consumption of fruit and non starch veggies I have felt far more energetic, and capable, than previously. And that as I do so, when I do eat grains, more sporadically than before, they have a more profound effect on my sense of vitality and liveliness.
Ain’t scientific observation or fact, just an anecdote with all of the biases inherent.
Rachel,
I’m not trying to be cute, though no one could be blamed for suspecting that you were, and I’m not trying to be unpleasant or a snit. But some things need to be said.
I think you could have raised a valid point about the value of whole grains, but instead you chose a different path. I think that you could have contributed better to your fellow commentators from your ideas on these points had you not been so flippant, dismissive, and snarky.
What you did above would be called arguing from authority, except you weren’t really arguing. And that’s a problem. You were making proclamations and issuing directives which isn’t really arguing, though it’s sort of like a kind of rhetoric.
Sort of.
When arguing from another’s authority, it is best not to be snarky about it. This poorly reflects on the one being snarky.
So, even if you were actually arguing from authority, and you weren’t even arguing, this is considered a logical fallacy in argumentation. They teach us these things in 11th grade English, or at least in better schools. Baring this, you would typically learn what fallacies are in arguing and logic in college.
When to make recourse to the amorphous authority of “a real nutrition course: nothing is said about the quality or credentials of those teaching such a “real nutrition course”- heck, what in your eyes would constitute a “real nutrition course” anyway?
Have you honestly read much of the new research on these matters? Beyond research (which always suffers from the biases of the researchers) have you taken the time to actually speak to people who have cut grains out of their diet, with success, and seem healthier for it?
Anecdotal evidence is weak, of course, but this does not mean that there may not be something interesting beneath the surface of accounts of many people who are cutting grains out of their diet, that may point to things that have eluded the authorities that you esteem simply because their biases and assumptions have simply blinded them, possibly, from making certain considerations.
Sadly due to the nature of the Internet it is possible for an otherwise very intelligent person to come off sounding like a fool. It’s a limited communications media.
That said, before throwing out proclamations and directives from authority it would be good to reflect on what you are writing.
“You need to take..” and “whole grains are needed..” are a directive, and a proclamation, respectively. A softened directive – you didn’t say “get thyself to a real nutrition course now”, “you need to take..” a nutrition course is a bit softer. But it’s still a directive, or awfully close to one.
In other words you are directing one to do X, and then stating – presumably – on the basis of the results of that directive that Y is true, without an actual argument as to why this is the case.
Good rhetoric, a quick shot shaming tactic, but not a sound or persuasive argument.
Maybe you should at least look into both sides of the issue in greater depth before just blurting out an opinion as fact.
The comment about seeds do not want to be digested, really opened a new door. My family can’t believe that cutting out grains is a good thing. We are Bible believers, and in the Bible it talks about eating grains, or so they have told me. The meat of the fields, is the quote I’ve heard so far. I do not want to contradict the Bible, but until I research that further, I’m staying away from them. Even still, they harvested them differently, then. I’ve lost the most weight in the shortest amount of time, gained energy, and feel better, by cutting out grains, and refined sugar. We’ve only been on this diet for 3 weeks, but I feel such a difference. I will be doing more research on the issues. Thanks for all the info. It’s great to get so much information in one place. It’s always great when you get to take charge of your health.
That book also tells you not to wear clothes made of more than one type of fiber, that slavery is perfectly fine, and all kinds of other absurd things. I don’t think it is the best place to go for nutritional, or any other type of, advice.
Yeah, buying into the primal blueprint requires at least an acceptance that evolution is real (It most certainly is.)
I wouldn’t trust the Old Testament as a source for scientific knowledge about what is best for your health.
I’m sorry but I do have to disagree about reading the statement about the Bible and scientific facts. Things have changed allot in the last few thousand years. And I DO NOT believe in evolution! No one will ever convince me, and I’m not going to start that war. It’s a personal decision, and the answer does not start with evolution or Creation, but an entirely different subject that I will not go into since it’s neither the time or place.
There are many things in there we shouldn’t do, but just like any other history book, it tells you the whole story and not just the fluffy parts. Just like Alexander the Great, and Cesar, and all the other kings, did terrible things, we still put them in the record books. That doesn’t mean, just because they’re story is told we should follow them. But however if The God who you Pray, and Worship tells you to eat something, you better eat it. Like I said I haven’t researched this yet. I will be doing a study on it. I will not come to a conclusion without also keeping in mind that we do not have the same rituals they practiced 6-10,000 years ago. You do not have to be an evolutionist to learn about good nutrition, or about your health(since we should all want to keep learning). We just keep in mind what we’ve been told what is good, and what isn’t. Then research if we are staying true to the process or to for go them “product” all together. I do thank Mark for all the info. It has helped me, to know how to choose better foods. Back then they couldn’t tell you about the different oils, and cheeses, since they didn’t have them yet. That’s all.
It’s true, you don’t need to accept the fact of evolution to practice good nutrition, although it will certainly help you to be a more scientifically literate person and it will definitely help you to understand why certain food choices may be better than others. And, for the record, the Bible is a terrible history book; unless you think that our planet is the flat center of the universe, and that the sky is the only thing keeping the water in space from crashing down on our heads. I’m very interested in what you believe ‘the start of everything’ to be, if it involves neither evolution (Which, strictly speaking, does not really talk about the start of anything but picks up after everything has already begun. But that is just me being nitpicky.) nor creation.
Regardless of your evolutionary misconceptions, however, the fact remains that grains are not unhealthy; like everything else they can be detrimental to your health if eaten in excess, but they are a useful source of fiber as well as carbs, which are pretty essential for most people. And unless someone on here has a link to a serious, well-designed scientific paper I will very likely remain unconvinced.
Ray, read this http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/EvolutionPaleolithic/Cereal%20Sword.pdf and then tell me grains are healthy
I haven’t read that whole paper yet, but from the first 20 pages it seems that they are making a case more for moderation of the consumption of grains than for the complete exclusion of them from the diet, which I agree with. They don’t have enough nutritional value to justify basing an entire meal plan around them, but that doesn’t mean that they are going to kill you if you eat them frequently and in moderation.
Alot of controversial discussions here with different views and only that some people are being too sentimental just leave your points that all!!!
I have read many of Mark’s articles with great interest and I finally feel I’ve read enough of them to form an opinion on his beliefs.
I think the way that Mark advocates eating is healthy, but it is also extreme and unrealistic for most people. To those who like it: Great! I’m glad it makes you feel good. But I doubt that it’s right for everyone. The “primal” diet requires unnecessary dietary restrictions and guilt over wanting to eat normal foods when a person could achieve the same results by counting calories, cutting out processed food, adding fruits and vegetables, and eating a moderate, healthy amount of whole grains. The paleo thing is just another bandwagon for people to obsess over and most of them to try and fail at because they lack the willpower to go the rest of their life without a sandwich or a slice of pizza. And I hardly believe that’s a fault of theirs. We live in a very different world than the cavemen did, and just as we are genetically predisposed to whole, natural foods, we are also predisposed to enjoying diverse types of food that we find palatable. I would rather see people make realistic changes to their diet that end up making a huge positive effect on their health than try something as extreme as cutting out ALL grains, failing, and going back to eating like crap all the time.
The only food that I believe is a complete unmitigated evil is refined sugar (and by extension “white” carbs), and this is due to personal experience. I cut sugar out of my diet and switched to eating only vegetables, fruits, nuts, lean meats, and whole grains. I lost tons of weight and never felt better. I no longer craved sugar or most refined carbs at all. But I also ate lots of grains.
I think the jury is still out on all extreme ways of eating. I think there are multiple dietary paths one can walk to achieve healthy eating, be it the Mediterranean diet of olive oil, protein, grains, and veggies, the Japanese diet of rice, fish, and veggies, or something of your own invention, as long as it includes whole, unprocessed foods with high nutritional value with the right ratios of protein, fat, and carbohydrate.
My personal opinions about healthy eating lean towards paleo, but I’ve simply seen nothing to suggest that grains are going to kill you. If it’s any consolation, I think that paleo is infinitely better than vegetarianism, which is a joke and is going to do nothing but make you sick and anorexic or sick and fat, depending on the quality of your diet. Or Atkins, the “all bacon, all the time” diet.
In closing: Don’t drink the Kool Aid, folks – on any nutritional belief. If Mark’s way of eating appeals to you and makes you feel good, do it. But if you want to focus on getting healthier and fitter without having to give up every single thing you enjoy eating, do your own research on nutrition and see what conclusions YOU come to, and change your diet accordingly.
Way to prove my point, Griff.
I do examine my own beliefs (they certainly aren’t all correct – I’m only human and I don’t know everything) and I wasn’t condemning yours. I simply don’t share them. Had you had paid attention to the substance of my post, you would have noticed that I agreed with your beliefs on many points. I’m sure there are many people at MDA who can live this lifestyle and do it happily. I’m glad for them and you – as I stated. But I do not believe it is the ONLY way to get fit and healthy. That is where my beliefs and the beliefs of this website part ways. Other than that, I think you guys largely do good work. Anyone on a paleo diet is eating way better than the average American, whether they are 100% religious about omitting grains or not. Nor will I stoop to being unpleasant and condescending to sway someone to my opinion. I could care less if people share my beliefs – differences of opinion make the world go round. You do it your way, I’ll do it mine, and hopefully everyone makes decisions that leave them both happy and healthy.
Just wanted to mention that you can still eat pizza, bread, pancakes, and muffins. And you still get lots of calories, protein, carbs, and healthy fats. Just replace your flour with Almond flour, or another type of flour if you’re allergic to almonds. There’s a couple of recipes on here, like Primal pancakes, and Son of Groks’ pizza you could try. We’ve eliminated all flour, and trying to eliminate as much grains as we can. We eat them only when money is tight, or at a friends house. We eat lots of veggies, with a moderate side of meat most meals. Since finding out I’m expecting with our third child, I’ve been craving flour like foods, so I eat (almond) Maple Cinnamon muffins (that are amazing) and pancakes, and I’ve been craving meat, and eating more fruit and veggies. I’ve been eating tons of food, but still loosing a small amount of weight, (from the previous child weight gain). I started eating better just before I got pregnant and ever since I’ve been loosing about 1-2 lbs a week, I’m not dieting, just eating healthy. My body is getting rid of the excess body fat on it’s own. We can still eat at people’s houses, and I’m not going to completely stay away from grains, just if they are whole and only once in awhile. I will eat wild rice once in awhile, but not make my diet around them. I’ve found from Mark’s site he’s all about moderation, and do what you can. He just doesn’t like grains at all. If the way our soil and processing the wheat has no to little nutritional value, why eat them? You wouldn’t choose to eat another food, just cuz everyone else does, or it seems normal. Everyone eats at McDonald’s, should we eat there, because it’s normal? No, although you can eat there, and find some marginally nutritious food (like the salad), doesn’t mean you should be eating it. Just like we don’t eat iceberg lettuce, because of it’s low nutritional value, we don’t eat grains as a form of nutrition. I’m happy to hear you’ve lost weight by eating healthy and even with grains. Everyone has a different need, if it works for you and you have no problem with grains, more to you. Just wanted to let you know there are alternative recipes that you can make, just take out the refined flour (and other alterations. Even cutting out sugar will help you loose weight. Hope you stay healthy in your endeavor, how ever you choose to eat. We all wish everyone the best of health!
The ideas you have implemented with your family sound great. I would be interested in trying almond flour. I already use ground flaxseeds and flaxseed oil.
Thanks for telling me about it. I didn’t intend to sound rude in my earlier posts but I realize I probably did. You are absolutely right in that if anyone gets healthy, they eliminate a lot of the things Mark doesn’t like anyway, because there are many foods made from grain which are unequivocally terrible for you. I know that simply cutting out sugar helped me immensely. I just truly believe in moderation and doing what works for you. And you are right, eating grains because “everyone else does it” is not a good reason at all. I am just not convinced they are completely terrible or that anyone can yet prove that. But if you stop eating grains (or limit them) and feel better and lose weight, who cares what scientists (or anyone else) say? Obviously it works well for you and you are the best judge of your own health. That’s why I encouraged everyone to do their own research and figure out what works for them.
Careful with the flax…its very hard on your thyroid. The EFA’s contained within must be converted from ALA to EPA/DHA first. Better to get it from a source brand of cod liver oil. (No, Grok didn’t have it, but it’s pretty useful stuff anyway.)
The technical term is goitregen. As is soy, raw cruciferous veggies, fluoride, bromide (hey, that’s in BREAD!), millet, and a few other random things.
Here is a good list, if you are interested. It isn’t an exhaustive list, I don’t think, but worthwhile if you suspect an issue.
mmm….oatmeal. I’m sure humans aren’t actually meant to eat grains, but nowadays it seems like we’re not meant to eat anything depending on who you ask. who cares, I want to live my life! no one has ever died from eating grains, you know.
Hello, I found this article very interesting.
I do have a couple questions/comments though…
I do want to lose weight, but I find it hard to stick to diets(which is almost laughable in my case).
This “no grain” thing is intruiging..but I wonder what food is really left to consume(healthy-wise) for me.
I know this sounds silly so far, but let me explain that I am a vegetarian (have been for many many years). So it’s already like I am on a strict diet..and to tighten it more?
Most my diet consists of grains. If I take those out will I just be left with fruits and vegetables?
I do already know the answer to this (mostly), but I was wondering if anyone maybe had any ideas or suggestions.
Maybe I’m thinking too broad?
No grains means no spagetti/pasta, no bread, no pizza, no bakery sweets, no (tacos?) and such. (?)
Oh yes, and fyi I’m a vegetarian who hates salad. Why? Because it’s not filling to me, and seems only good with dressing…which are mostly bad for you anyway. So salads seem healthy…but aren’t very much in reality (so it seems to me).
@Kenzie: The answer to this is: stop being a vegetarian.
Please, please get and read “The Vegetarian Myth” by Lierre Keith, if you do nothing else today. You need animal fats and animal protein in order to really be healthy. Those are what our bodies evolved to eat. I know this goes against everything you’ve ever been told by doctors and nutritionists, but they are working on bad information from bad science that was done irresponsibly with an agenda.
Then, once you’ve read her book, get Mark’s book and read it, too. Please, for your own health’s sake. You’ll find this the easiest “diet” to stick to ever, because it’s not a diet. It’s avoiding processed crap and things we were never meant to eat – like grains. You can make tacos in a lettuce wrap and pizza on a cauliflower crust. Bread and pasta is out, but trust me, you’ll get used to not having bread or pasta anymore. They really are overrated, and terrible for you.
For filling food, you need fats and proteins first, and carbs last. Carbs are never filling. So have a salad with steak in it, or high-fat fish like tuna, or dark-meat chicken. As for salad dressings – the ones that are bad for you are the ones that have vegetable oils and sugar in them, like most “italian” dressings and pretty much all reduced-fat or fat-free dressings. If you make a good oil-and-vinegar dressing from olive oil, or if you make your own blue cheese dressing, they’re insanely good – and good for you.
Finally, stick around here and join the forums, and you’ll be able to ask and get answers to pretty much any question you have about the Primal way of eating and living. I’ve dropped nearly 80 pounds in six months and my blood sugars are completely under control. My doctor says my tests are non-diabetic now. My arthritis and migraines are gone (it turns out I’m allergic to both wheat and gluten) and I no longer have to use a wheelchair. Any of that sound familiar? If you’ve been a grain-dependent vegetarian for any length of time, I’d be surprised if you don’t have a bunch of physical health problems that your doctors can’t figure out.
Best of luck to you!
It really perplexes me how anyone can take themselves seriously or expect others to take them seriously when they cry conspiracy like this. Tell me, exactly, what agenda doctors and nutritionists could possibly have to publish bad science saying that vegetarianism is good for you? Were they forced to do it by the extremely influential and powerful asparagus lobby?
It is very possible, and not even difficult, to get enough protein and fats in your diet as a vegetarian; there is nothing special about meats that make them the exclusive source of the types of fats and proteins that we need.
Your last paragraph is absolutely ridiculous. Whether or not all of that is true and exactly how you present it, it is irresponsible to say that removing grains from your diet caused it. It is much more likely that you made more than just simple dietary changes to get those kinds of results. Correlation is not causation, and since there isn’t a pandemic of people being killed/severely sickened by grains I think it is a safe bet that they aren’t any more dangerous than any other commonly consumed food.
I’m off all medications for my diabetes. I’ve made no other real changes than what I was eating. I stopped eating grains and sugars, and everything changed. If telling people about that is irresponsible, then I’ll happily embrace that label. I love being irresponsible when it means that people will stop eating the poison they’ve been told is food.
You see, I’ve seen proof that this is real and it works, and I’m far from the only one here who has. Your doubt is what’s ridiculous. The science is firmly on the side of people who eliminate Neolithic foods (and processed crap and vegetable oils) from their diets, and we’re going to outlive you doubters -and by a lot. So feel free to keep eating your poisonous grains. I’m opting out and I’m going to do everything I can to convince other people who need to stop eating them to opt out too, because I KNOW it works. I have my body and my lab tests as evidence.
You think there’s no pandemic of people being killed or severely sickened by grains? What do you call diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, and cancer – all of which have been conclusively linked to grains and sugars? Gee, I’d call that a pandemic.
It’s a shame that you can’t handle the truth, but then again, and sadly, most people can’t. Sorry to hear that you’re one of them. I won’t be responding to you further as I have better things to do with my time than argue with a brick wall. Have a good day, now.
Is that why when people have heart disease their doctors recommend that they stay away from grains and vegetables, but eat plenty of red meats?
Those are some pretty bold claims you’re making; show me a paper that links cancer to grains and sugars and I will concede that you are more informed than me. But I am very doubtful that you will do that, since there is no evidence to support that claim.
I am no more of a brick wall than you are, seeing as I am open to evidence contrary to my opinions. You see I am not going to belligerently stick to my guns if you prove me wrong; on the off-chance that I am incorrect about this I would love to be shown. So please, find some data to support your side and prove me wrong.
Ignorance has never needed an agenda.
Good intentions do not make good health.
Doctors know nothing about nutrition. A close friend just finished med school at one of the best schools in the country. Had one nutritional seminar.
I was a vegan for 2 years. Tell me, how many studies have you found, legitimate studies, that prove being a vegetarian is healthy? Especially clinical studies, not broad observational studies. There are few, if any, of consequence. Believe me, I looked.
Who do you think pays for research?
Btw, I was healthiest as a vegan when I avoided grains. I avoided them because I did research at many sites, not just here.
Meat contains B12. That was easy.
Healthy meat has proper levels of Omega 3 fats.
A vegan diet can provide proper nutrition for some people and give them good health for some time. But it’s neither natural nor optimal and you will likely pay for it in the long run.
Oh well thank you, this is all very interesting.
I really couldn’t start eating meat though. I’m not a vegetarian because of “animal rights” or nutrition reasons.
I just can’t stomach the thought of eating flesh and tissue n blood vessels etc.
To me..(and I know this is absurd) it’s like: I wouldn’t eat a person, so I wouldn’t eat an animal.
And either way, I’ve distanced myself from meat for so many years that even just the smell of it makes me horribly nauseous.
Not to say that people who do eat meat are awful or cannibals or anything. It’s just not what I do.
And I don’t know if I’m horribly “grain-dependent” per say. I really just don’t eat a lot.
My doctors do reccommend vitamins…that I don’t really take. Because lack of some vitamin makes it hard for me to do some excercises..
Like, even in-shape. I sometimes find it extremely difficult to catch my breath to the degree of almost fainting.
But that only bothers me one in awhile.
Thinking about it…I drink liquids a lot. Lot’s of water…because I think milk tastes gross. (lol)
But thank you for reading my comments and replying! I appreciate it, very much. You have a nice day/night 🙂
@Ray:
First of all, most doctors don’t keep up on the science that’s been coming out for the last ten years or so which roundly debunks the fat-is-bad, carbs-are-good hypotheses. They’re operating on medical knowledge that’s twenty years or more out of date. They got one day of nutrition classes in medical school, based on faulty research conducted by Ancel Keys in the first half of the last century, which he conducted with an anti-fat agenda. They know next to nothing about the science behind nutrition, and they’re in the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies. I don’t trust doctors any farther than I can throw them, and you shouldn’t either.
Here’s some books I recommend to people who doubt that this is real and that it’s supported by scientific findings:
The Great Cholesterol Con, by Anthony Colpo
Eat Fat, Lose Fat, by Mary Enig, Ph.D. and Susan Fallon
Mark’s book, of course
Protein Power LifePlan, by Drs. Michael and Mary Dan Eades, as well as their website at http://www.proteinpower.com
This video by Gary Taubes, who holds advanced degrees from Harvard and whose life work is debunking bad science, explaining the science behind this way of eating: http://www.dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm – this is a talk he gave at, I believe, Berkeley, explaining some of his findings in Good Calories, Bad Calories, which I also recommend.
Here’s some links for you.
Sugary soda linked to pancreatic cancer risk: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN07113352
Cancer cell metabolism tied to sugar: http://blog.mesothelioma-aid.org/2010/02/12/cancer-cell-metabolism-could-be-key-to-new-cancer-therapies/
On cholesterol and what a crock of crap the cholesterol-leads-to-heart-disease hypothesis really is:
http://www.healthbeatblog.org/2008/02/the-cholesterol.html
http://www.businessweek.com/print/magazine/content/08_04/b4068052092994.htm
No link between saturated fat and heart disease:
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/health/Sugar+hazardous+health/2544651/story.html
http://www.healthcentral.com/diabetes/news-458538-98.html
You may also want to check out the movie “FatHead” by Tom Naughton, which explains most of this in a very entertaining and scientifically sound manner.
I wish you a good day looking at these links and reading these books. I hope this will show you that what you’ve been taught by conventional wisdom is nonsense and that we really do know what we’re talking about here at MDA.
Oh, and to Ray: all grains break down into glucose. So any grain you eat is really no different than eating straight white sugar. To your body, they’re exactly the same substance.
That’s pretty ridiculous. Your body doesn’t instantly break grains down into glucose; it takes time. Eventually they are broken down into simple sugars, but saying that eating grains is equivalent to eating straight sugar is exaggerating things quite a bit.
It really depends on the type of carb that you’re eating, too; complex carbs are broken down much more slowly than are simple carbs and will thus be converted into sugar and released into the blood stream more gradually.
Even if they don’t instantly become sugars, you still need to produce and process way more insulin on a high grain diet than what was considered normal in paleolithic times – a large stretch of time where our pancreas evolved the most… on a mostly ketone burning fat and vegetable based diet.
Our pancreas and insulin regulating systems clearly haven’t had enough time to evolve to our modern grain/sugar-based diets
Grains digest to glucose, which does not contain fructose. Big difference. Fructose has to be handled by the liver.
@Ray: I’ve attempted to post links for you but I think they may have been eaten by MDA’s spam filter. I’ve notified Mark; hopefully they’ll show up at some point soon.
But you see, Ray, the point is that they ALL break down into glucose – whether slowly or quickly doesn’t make a bit of difference. Glucose causes an insulin response. An insulin-resistant body (as most American bodies are) can’t handle that much insulin or that much glucose, and it causes real health problems.
My blood sugar meter tells the truth: a meal of high-fat steak and a big-ass salad leaves my blood sugar in the 90s both before and after the meal (and I’ve tested at one, two, three and four hours after, and it’s never varied). A meal of regular semolina pasta or white rice with sauce? Sugar spike into the 180s two hours later, which is when blood sugar is supposed to return to “normal” after a meal. A meal of whole-wheat pasta or brown rice with sauce? Sugar spike into the 160s two hours later, and into the 240s three hours later (because of that vaunted digests-slower “advantage” you’re touting). That’s not an advantage – that’s cellular poison.
I would suggest that you work on learning about the science, instead of holding on to conventional wisdom that is laughable in its unscientific-ness.
Whether you think they are or not, most people aren’t diabetic and don’t need to worry about the occasional spike in blood-sugar. I’m not saying that everyone should have diets high in carbs, because you clearly shouldn’t if you are diabetic.
For most people that slower digestion is an advantage, since it will allow their bodies more time to naturally lower their blood sugar. A diabetic who is insulin resistant (I can’t recall if that is type I or II) should definitely watch their carb intake, and for them a diet without grains will almost certainly be beneficial.
However, since this is not the case for the majority of the nation’s population it is not very scientific to say that it is. I am very science literate, which is beneficial since I am currently studying math and biology, and I would never extrapolate results to the general population from a study on diabetics (or any other minority group), let alone a study performed on one person.
I would have to disagree with you. I think the high rates of insulin-dependent diseases, including diabetes but also including obesity, high blood pressure, and heart disease, are indicators that a rise in insulin is a problem for *everyone* in the nation (indeed, the Western world!), whether or not they’re diagnosed with insulin problems (for backup on these claims, please read the Eades’ book Protein Power and/or Protein Power LifePlan, although the earlier book goes into more detail about the connection between elevated insulin levels and diabetes/obesity/heart disease/high blood pressure etc., and they’ve had over 30 years of clinical practice to back up their claims).
Let’s face it, the pancreas eventually gives out if you flood the body with carbs repeatedly, as most Westerners do. We’re not designed to run exclusively or even primarily on glucose. If we were, the pancreas would be about six times as big as it is. Obviously we run on things other than glucose – primarily ketones. If you think about it, the science is sound.
I would really suggest that you read Mark’s book before continuing with this conversation. If you don’t believe it after you’ve read the science behind what he’s making public here, then more power to you – but a lot of your questions and skepticism could be answered by reading his book and a few others. (Like I said earlier, I posted a link comment and I think MDA’s spam filter probably ate it; I have contacted Mark and we’ll just have to wait for it to come back up.)
“Obviously we run on things other than glucose – primarily ketones.”
That right there is completely false. Our primary energy source is glucose; we are capable of using ketosis to convert fatty acids into something more usable, but it is definitely not the first thing our bodies go for.
This isn’t to say we can survive on only glucose, because we obviously need other nutrients, but those are used for mostly things besides providing us with energy. Our bodies even store excess energy in the form of glycogen, which is a carbohydrate. I’m not sure why our bodies would do this if carbs are so terrible for us…
Also, I cannot find anything that Eades has done or anything that proves he actually knows what he is talking about. From what I have found, however, it seems like a lot of what he wants to do is sell people books/supplements.
*sigh*
Fine, Ray. You believe what you like. I’m studying for a major examination, I’ve wasted far too much time on this conversation today, and I don’t have any more time available to continue trying to convince someone who doesn’t want to listen to the evidence available. Meantime, as I’ve already said before, I’ll be getting healthier and fitter, and living longer, and you can take your doubt wherever it will lead you – but it won’t be to health.
Take care now.
I don’t understand what you think you gave me that I should consider evidence… You do know that anyone can write a book and put whatever they want in it, right? Just because a publisher thought it would sell doesn’t mean that it has to have actual, factual information in it.
I want real proof. Without actual research which is done well and preferably peer-reviewed and replicated by other researchers there is no reason to believe the claims that you are making, if only because it makes absolutely no biological sense whatsoever.
I’d also like to point out that you haven’t argued against any of my claims. You’ve simply kept assuring me that it has, and will continue to, work for you and so it must be true. That is pretty overwhelming in its unscientific-ness.
Ray, the proof you want is in the books I’ve referenced. Colpo’s and Taubes’ books are chock-full of peer-reviewed research that you can look at. As I said, I do not have time to discuss this with you further. Have a nice day now.
Here’s the only good reason to eat grains: it beats starving to death when there are no other options. I’m glad my ancestors survived the Dark Ages long enough to reproduce.
But these days, we don’t have to eat poison to survive. And make no mistake, grains are poison.
I say this as somebody who ate and adored grains in generous quantities throughout life. How I laughed, reading the grain-lover comments to this article! “But grains are tasty!” “But what would I eat if not grains?” “I’m a real guy from the street who really understands what’s going on (so don’t confuse me with the science)!” LOL. In my carb days I would probably have written something similar. So would many of my morbidly obese relatives.
But one day in my carefree youth, my intestines basically fell apart. I spent seven years baffling the doctors and wondering what progressive, degenerative illness I had contracted before I found the Primal Blueprint and tried ditching grains. Within a week all my symptoms were gone.
But lifelong eating habits leave their mark. This weekend I decided that as a treat for being so orthodox, I’d try one of my old favorite foods, some lightly breaded chicken nuggets (Chick-Fil-A, if you must know). There were only 30g of carbs in the whole thing, and I was really feeling fit, so I thought, surely I can stomach this. Could a tiny amount of grain — just enough to provide a crispy texture — really be so bad? It didn’t feel bad after eating. In fact I rather enjoyed the fleeting carb rush.
But this morning, the bill came due. My weight spiked overnight by three pounds, from the look of it all on my belly, and rather than springing out of bed as usual, I felt sluggish and slept in. Thank goodness today’s a fast day and my metabolism is back under control.
Hear Mark now and listen to him later: Grains are poison!
I told myself I was done with this, but I cannot let this kind of ignorance float around unabated. It doesn’t make any sense at all, whether grains are good for you or bad for you or neutral, for 30g of carbs to make your weight spike by 3 lbs.
It takes ~3500 Calories for you to gain 1 pound. There are about 4 Calories per gram of carbohydrate. There were ~4*30=120 Calories in the chicken you ate, which is way less than would be noticeable on its own. Also, fat doesn’t only go to one spot. It is spread throughout the body, albeit unevenly so it might appear as though it all went to your belly.
I call shenanigans on your story, sir.
Ah, I see you’re really making use of the resources I pointed at, Ray. Except not, because if you had, you’d know that it’s actually a quite common reaction for someone avoiding grains to have when they come into contact with grains. If you’d read “Life Without Bread,” for example, you’d know that.
Therefore, I call shenanigans on your request for proof, as it’s obvious you don’t really want any. If you did, you would have gone and read some of the resources I pointed you at before responding here again. Now the truth comes out: you’re just a troll, and that means I don’t have to pay any further attention to anything you say.
Have a good (if misguided) life, Ray.
The thing is, you and I are apparently using different definitions for the words ‘proof’ and ‘science.’ You see, I don’t consider a book to be science. Unless it is actually peer-reviewed (which is uncommon for books) then I am not going to bother with it. I don’t want the author’s opinion, I just want the facts.
And it doesn’t make any sense at all that a small amount of carbs would make you gain weight. Unless it was all water weight, in which case it doesn’t really count, then I am very skeptical that it happened that way.
You linked to some articles, but not really scientific ones. A short, one page writeup does not count as a scientific argument. You should probably lay off the ad hominems, too; whether or not my life is misguided does not change the facts.
Can you say…. inflammation?
Anywyas if you want to take the scientific route, Ray, it is you that has to defend your grain-is-healthy theory – since it’s the new guy on the block. The default for humans for for hundreds of thousand of years has been a ketone-burning high fat 0 grass grain diet.
If you could find definitive proof that modern populations eating mass amounts of grains and having mostly a sugar-burning metabolism are actually healthier than primitive pre-agricultural revolution humans, I’d like to hear it. Otherwise I’m sticking to the default diet for humans: animals, fats, vegetable plants, ketones and the occasional seasonal fruits/carby foods. No grains, minimal sugars.
Honestly, I’ve read this conversation with sheer amazement.
Ray, seriously, you claim to be so “science literate” yet you don’t even remember which type of diabetes you’re arguing about??????? Yeah, there’s scientific literacy at it’s best!!!!!!
Let’s hope no diabetic ever has to rely on you in an emergency.
By the way, Timothy did not say he gained three pounds of fat – just three pounds of weight. Obviously that’s not fat from 30 grams of carbs, it’s water, inflammation and bloating. Duh! That doesn’t mean it “doesn’t count” as you say. I’m quite sure Timothy found it extremely uncomfortable and unpleasant.
Griff has provided you with many resources enabling you to find the actual studies involved here. Yes, particularly the books – Oh, I know, books can say anything and don’t have to be scientific. Obviously the ones you have been reading qualify as that kind of crap. However, the books Griff has sent you to contain all the references to actual high quality, peer reviewed studies – you are then able to find these studies for yourself without too much effort (as many people have done) and check them out – just like the authors did. Then, and only then, can you comment on whether the books are valid in the conclusions drawn.
Griff has wasted precious time from his life (which I’m sure he wishes he had back)trying to help you and pointing you toward the evidence you say you require. You have provided nothing (allow me to repeat – NOTHING)to support your argument at all. You just like to say “No! I’m right and you’re wrong.” I’d be willing to bet you were the kid who used to freak out if he were losing the game, start shouting at your friends and then take your bat and ball and go home.
I certainly hope you allow some open mindedness into your life and actually try to find out what’s true. It could save your life and perhaps those you love, particularly if they believe your claim of scientific literacy and take your advice on this basis.
Griff, I realise this comment is being made well after the events here took place, but if you ever do read it again. Please allow me to say “Congratulations on your patience and willingness to try to help these people. You are certainly far more patient than I.” I personally branded Ray a troll way before you were willing to give up on him. You are obviously a very good person.
what about raw sprouted grains??? Its bad too?
I’m glad I stumbled across this website because for the most part, grains were not a big part of my diet, but then I “felt” like I should be eating some kind of grain, and I started incorporating oatmeal, but then I started bloating and having IBS (which I have never had when I wasn’t eating ANY grains, come to think of it) and I just noticed that when I do eat grains, the IBS flares up as opposed to when I’m just eating fresh vegetables and fruits. I currently eat a diet consisting mainly of fruits and vegetables and some meat occasionally. The only problem I have with meat is that the meat that is readily available today is pumped full of hormones and god knows what else. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on a “healthier” type of meat, such as organic (but that can be pricey) or maybe fish is a better option? Thanks 🙂
Also, is flaxseed okay?
Thanks for all the information 🙂 now I finally understand why I started bloating recently. I’ve been doing a lot of research and cut out all processed foods. Since then, I’ve lost about 7lbs. Naturally, I cut out “whole grains” because they were processed as well.. But I felt guilty because I’ve been raised my whole life on grains and was taught that they were “essential”.. You know what they say, “bad habits die hard.” So I added in some oatmeal back into my foods and for some incredulous (to me) reason, I started bloating and getting digestive issues like IBS. I was completely baffled and I did some research on the internet. Some websites said that it was only my digestive system “getting used to” the amount of fiber I was adding into my diet.. But c’mon, I think my body would be able to tell me that something isn’t right and that I should listen to my body.. which led me to your website.. Needless to say, it all made sense and I cut out my oatmeal. No more bloating. IBS is going away.
Thank you, thank you.
And I just ordered a copy of your book after scouring your website.
Thank you for having the guts to tell the truth amidst all the lies that those agribus and meat lobbyists feed us 🙂
i’ve stumbled across this site, and very interested in this Primal way of eating….before i had 2 kids i was vegetarian (lacto-ovo) for 15 years since age 15. but i developed asthma; so i researched and discovered macrobitotics. i ditched milk; asthma much better. however i still did grains. after kids arrive—things too hectic, pbj sandwiches very easy! now kids are teens and i am 40-ish and weight seems to be an issue. however, while i can see the harm of refined grains, i cannot imagine the dangers of whole grain brown rice. i guess i’ll have to get this book!
You speak much about “primal living” and how it would ultimately exclude grains, but how does that explain the several hundreds of decidedly “primal” tribes that exist in Africa, Asia or South America that live off rice? Sure, they will hunt down animals for meat and gather and farm as many fruits and vegetables as they can, but without rice and its consistency, many of them would starve and die. That doesn’t sound like a very long life to me.
Don’t get me wrong, I can see the beauty of the primal lifestyle that you’re promoting. But that’s just it: it’s a lifestyle. You’ve got your beliefs and I’ve got mine, and when it all comes down to it, are either one of us really going to live past 100 or so? The oldest living humans on Earth who have surpassed 100 did not exclude grains or even alcohol (hell, a lot of them drank a glass of wine every day). Some of the oldest living people are Okinawans, and while the majority of their diet is veggies, they do not exclude rice.
So you think we haven’t “evolved” to digest grains? Then why do we? I haven’t keeled over and died and I’ve been eating rice and bread all my life. Cellulose is something we can’t digest. Grains? Sure we can.
Again, I do not mean to insult the primal lifestyle: if you want to live it, and live it fully, then more power to you. It’s just that this whole holier-than-thou position so many of you are taking is offputting and you can shove as many facts as you like (padded with as much sarcasm as you could muster), but as long as you keep insulting people, they aren’t going to take you seriously.
And with that said, keep on.
I agree with the primal lifestyle. But I have one burning question, now that I’ve ordered a freezer-full of grass-fed organic ostrich, elk and venison. I have a horse, so I’ve noticed how grasses turn to grain when they “head out”. Relished by herbivores. So is this natural “grain” different from the processed grains given to livestock? Don’t herbivores eat grains in nature?
If grains ARE hard to digest for humans (and they certainly are), then it indicates and points to incompatability for the human requirements of nutriion and proper food stuff mandated by nature over millions of years…
OK, taking it a logical step further, MEAT is even HARDER to digest, process, assimilate, etc than most grains could ever be… a dense, low water content (mostly dehydrated), no fiber for bowel/bolus propulsion through the intestines, etc…
Does anyone ever take things to logical conclusions instead of staying with surface level, superficial levels of thought, contemplation, and questioning/reasoning?
Digestion, ease and machination of digestion, etc and anatomical/physiological
NECESSITY mandate what we, as humans or any species, SHOULD BE EATING…
meat SOUNDS good for it’s protein density, and few vitamins, heme iron, etc.
but it’s not digested well or simply by the human organism, whether you have indigestion or not after eating it.. so how can everyone have it so right on the grains (which are food for birds/fowl), but not on the core of the nutrition argument in Paleo ciricles, which is MEAT consumption…
PS. Cultural and habitual norms and historical data prove NOTHING on what dictates a healthy human diet…
Because humans DID eat meat for a lengthy period, doesn’t mean we ARE MEANT TO EAT IT…
I CAN eat a large pizza or cheese burger fries and coke, and still live till 40-50-60yrs old, it doesn’t mean I am MEANT TO IT… this is the same logical incongruency that is being used by meat advocates…
Informant
I take it you’re a vegan and animal rights is your motivation.
You didn’t really get what the article was talking about.
Also, meat is slow to digest. True. But not difficult. You might want to do a bit of research there. That’s a common myth I’ve seen in many vegetarian circles.
We evolved on varying amounts of meat through the ages.
Fyi, I was a vegan for 2 years. I’m pro animal rights. I’ve done a lot of research on these topics.
Also: “Meant to eat it?” Meant implies some sort of intent. Whose intent? Some higher authority or what you hope is the one true way?
Also, I thought it was kinda funny that your penultimate line was that sometimes you should f@#$ science and start doing science. Y’know, since all science is is experiments…
This is the biggest CROCK OF SHIT I have ever heard. You grain bashers are so full of shit it ain’t even funny! Your arguments are ridiculous and all this talk about primal diet, caveman, neolithic, stone age is a bunch of horseshit. I would hate to be that stupid!
Interesting choice of names usernames, BTW.
Wow. I am stunned by your intellect and keen vocabulary. Clearly your arguments are superior.
Freya Stark wrote something like, [you can’t be happy if what you believe in is not what you do.] Come on now, let everybody have their own feelings and thoughts. You all alone are your greatest experiment. I’m not Mark’s, or a corporation’s experiment, I’m simply me and I will keep reading and learning till the day I die and whether or not that’s from diabetes or heart disease or whatever else! Well that’s not for me to know but I guess I’ll find out.
And for the record, I’ve been “grok’n it” and feel f***ing GREAT! And it’s all about feeling good so I’m happy. Not only with diet but my exercise, I’m an athlete and spent an hour climbing trees yesterday and I’m sore! Thanks to all open minded doctors and clinical nutritionists, biologists, anthropoligists etc. and thank you Mark! This site rocks. Go have fun.
wow. nice article. Im so used to eating grains and I can’t change much of that because my family would be soo mad about changing ‘lifestyle’ again. I’m still a teenager so as long as im under their roof I’ll probably have to stick with the G word ( for your sake 😉 )
So mark, what carbs do u intake other than from fruits and veggies?
and how many fruits per day is too much? cus I eat alot! (most worried about the sugar)
Although there maybe no scientific significance to starches, there is definitely a historical, cultural, and religious context that should be held as important.
Maybe you should just moderate it, I’m sure a man’s stomach can handle a bit of delicious bread. Or the taste of a freshly baked pretzel, the big oversized ones with kosher salt on them. Just eat one once in a while instead of 4 of them twice a week.
Nope. One bite of bread and my arthritis flares up. Your thesis is incorrect.
We are NOT designed to eat grains. History, religion, and culture can’t override genetic programming or maintain optimal health.
How that go?
First they ignore,
then they laugh at you,
then they fight you.
Then you win.
Anyone wonder which stage Mark’s at? I’m curious.
LOL!
Ok firstly i agree with what the basic premise that grains are bad from a practical and anecdotal standpoint. So my questioning here is mearly to foster debate rather than critisise the advice. Firstly the idea that we do not have the genes to “metabolise” the proteins in grains is debatable (1) evolution of genes is not limited to species and a comparison of genomic sequences from species able to utilise grains and humans would be interesting and may clear some of this debate up (2) long term gene expression can often be influenced by our diet and it is possible that eating grains at an early stage of life may permanently upregulate the genes involved in digestion of the dreaded grain proteins (3) should wild oats be included in this category, essentially gluten free and containing proteins with clinically proven benefical immunomodulatory effects as well as fibres which also have a prebiotic effect that are benefical to your gut flora, – see beta glucans, whilst these benefits have been more assoicated with beta glucans from mushrooms the is a growing consensus to the value of oats. just to lend some credence to my question i am a qualified geneticist specialised in nutrigenomics working in the realm of functional foods with a lifelong interest in sports and human performance
Ok firstly i agree with what the basic premise that grains are bad from a practical and anecdotal standpoint. So my questioning here is mearly to foster debate rather than critisise the advice. Firstly the idea that we do not have the genes to “metabolise” the proteins in grains is debatable (1) evolution of genes is not limited to species and a comparison of genomic sequences from species able to utilise grains and humans would be interesting and may clear some of this debate up (2) long term gene expression can often be influenced by our diet and it is possible that eating grains at an early stage of life may permanently upregulate the genes involved in digestion of the dreaded grain proteins (3) should wild oats be included in this category, essentially gluten free and containing proteins with clinically proven benefical immunomodulatory effects as well as fibres which also have a prebiotic effect that are benefical to your gut flora, – see beta glucans, whilst these benefits have been more assoicated with beta glucans from mushrooms the is a growing consensus to the value of oats. just to lend some credence to my question i am a qualified geneticist specialised in nutrigenomics working in the realm of functional foods with a lifelong interest in sports and human performance
Cannabis seeds
About 30–35% of the weight of hempseed is hempseed oil or hemp oil, an edible oil that contains about 80% essential fatty acids (EFAs); i.e., linoleic acid, omega-6 (LA, 55%), alpha-linolenic acid, omega-3 (ALA, 22%), in addition to gamma-linolenic acid, omega-6 (GLA, 1–4%) and stearidonic acid, omega-3 (SDA, 0–2%). Whole hempseed also contains about 25% of a highly-digestible protein, where 1/3 is edestin and 2/3 are albumins. Its amino acid profile is close to “complete” when compared to more common sources of proteins such as meat, milk, eggs and soy.[20] The proportions of linoleic acid and alpha-linolenic acid in one tablespoon (15 ml) per day of hemp oil easily provides human daily requirements for EFAs. Unlike flaxseed oil, hemp oil can be used continuously without developing a deficiency or other imbalance of EFAs.[21] This has been demonstrated in a clinical study, where the daily ingestion of flaxseed oil decreased the endogenous production of GLA.[21]
Hempseed is an adequate source of calcium and iron. Whole hempseeds are also a good source of phosphorus, magnesium, zinc, copper and manganese.
Hempseed contains no gluten and therefore would not trigger symptoms of celiac disease.
I’ve been on the paleo lifestyle for one week and I already have more energy, less bloating after eating, and no blood sugar crash from an insuln spike. You vegans, veggies, and grain digesters need to wake up and eat some meat before you’re too weak to lift a fork.
Okay, wait. So, I’m not supposed to have red meat, processed food, refined sugar, most dairy, OR grains? What in gods name am I SUPPOSED to eat? I honestly cant live on just fruits and veggies.
Where’d you get the idea you weren’t supposed to eat red meat? You certainly didn’t get it from this website! And Mark isn’t completely anti-dairy like the “orthodox paleo” crowd, as long as it’s minimally processed — raw, grass-fed, and A2 instead of A1 casein.
You shouldn’t eat red meat that comes from factory farms. The science about red meat’s disadvantages only looked at that kind. Not the grass-fed and wild stuff.
Does anyone else get a puffy feeling from eating grains? It’s not a bloated feeling nor a gassy feeling. And it’s not something that can be measured on a scale. It’s just a feeling of being puffy. Overinflated. Anyone?
Dear Mark,
Firstly id like to say i follow a mostly primal style of nutrition. However there are a number of questions i have regarding some points you have made. You have said that from an evolutionary perspective humans do not possess the genes required to metabolise proteins present in grains, specifically the gluten proteins. Where did you get this information ? Have you looked at any genomic information to back this statement up ? Secondly you have referenced the occurence of antibodies against gluten in “non-celiac” patients as being evidence that gluten induces inflammatory responese etc ? However i feel this is a massive leap of reasoning to make based on a single biomarker without taking any alternative mechanisms into consideration. Also the blanket term grains to include all variety of oats is somewhat strange in that epidemiological evidence and both animal and human clinical studies are showing massive health benefits etc.
The best thing to go for doubters who believe grains, either in moderation or full on, has no or little impact on their health and/or fat loss is to simply try it for themselves. if anything improve at all, be it: more restful sleep, less gas, no bloating, relieved arthritis or coming off meds… You will have your proof.
Just seeing it written by Mark or even tested in labs then reviewed by a panel of peers will always be second hand other wise.
Although Griff may come off as obnoxious (not a dig, btw, just an observation :))he does have two thing that many disbelieves don’t and that’s perspective from both sides AND personal positive results.
All the reading and studying in the world isn’t going to give us that level of belief therefore it should be a guide for disbelief either… If the purpose was to in fact get to the truth!
this is definitely an interesting concept, yet i don’t know if i could actually give up grains. i’ve tried before to give up grains because a lot of people with eczema notice a decrease in flare-ups when they do, but it made no different for me on that front.
my main concern would simply be that i can’t eat meat; it puts my body out of commission and i find more trouble from it than wheat or dairy or anything else for that matter. so this would make what i can and can eat seriously limited. perhaps i’ll try gradually cutting down and see how that feels, figure out some things to fill up on.
In my 20’s I went on a health food regime (lots of whole grains), then I was a vegetarian for 7 years in my 30’s/40’s. The whole time I was eating “healthy” and a vegetarian I had horrible digestive problems (bloating, gas, gut pain).
My digestive system is still sensitive, no doubt due to the years of “healthy” eating, so now I even need to be careful with some raw veggies. However meat, eggs, fruit and most veggies are no problem for me to digest. Go figure! lol
“[grains] are a distinctly Neolithic food that the human animal has yet to adapt to consuming.”
Humans are adapted, quite well, by evolutionary standards. Grains allow for predictable and abundant food supplies. They allow for permanence of place which in turn allows for the accumulation of capital and security. They allow greater mixing of populations and thus greater genetic diversity.
That means that grains allowed an explosion of human population, which is all that evolution cares about. The negative effects only occur after the reproductive years, after evolution has had its fill.
So if it’s the numerical state of the human race you care about, grains are the way to go. If its individuals you care about, if it is your own health and long life you care about, grains are not. Grains trade longevity for fecundity. That trade is a no-brainer for Evolution, but of course, in the modern world, that is a trade that need not even be made.
I agree and disagree: for those of us who can afford the luxury of an all vegetable, fruit, fish/meat diet, I’d agree that that’s the healthiest choice.
But give grains a little respect! Like you said, they were the agricultural revolution: arguably the reason we developed any permanent settlements –> cities –> governments –> fancy things like cars and computers!
Grains kept a large population well-fed and energetic enough to build pyramids…or, if you really think about it, grains were/are “slave food”/”working class food”.
(On an aside: I’m completely addicted to white sour dough bread.)
Love the passion here from all!
Hey I’ve just tried barley grass,in a month lots of little aches and pains have vanished,don’t know too much about the grain argument, but do know I am gluten intolerant and have cut back on bread.
At 51 have a 31 inch waist at 77 KG 5.9 height 5%BF and a 46″ chest and do lots of Yoga lots of good food,practice a”forgive attitude”
(Thats probabley been the hardest of all.)
How about we we all Respect the other persons veiwpoint because as for “science” there are more things unexplained than we’ll ever know,so chill let get of our “high horse stance”(save that for the politicians)and get on with getting on.
Because what I do know from 30 years in the health and fitness industry is what works for you may just not necessarily work for someone else!
Kim
You all are idiots.
“You all are idiots.”
You wish.
It seems very funny to me that people keep insisting that we “need” whole grains when it’s only been a few thousand years since we started eating grains.
And then there’s the theory about whole grains acting like a broom on your intestines and sweeping tings through. I fell victim to this theory in the Health Food heyday of the 1970’s. I’d always been constipated, even as a baby, so the idea that whole grains could resolve that appealed to me. Unfortunately, I ruined my digestion by eating high fiber foods. Instead of fixing my constipation, “health foods” backed me up even more, gave me gas, bloating and terrible pains after virtually every meal. I was miserable. I went on elimination diet after elimination diet, trying to find the foods that were causing the problem. Nothing made any difference. By that time, my gut seemed sensitive to everything!
One thing I did notice, however, was that a fast food meal was about the only food I could eat that didn’t leave me in agony afterward. No doubt because of the ultra-low fiber. However, I still didn’t get it.
I tried vegetarianism (for 7 years) in an attempt to get even more healthy… because I thought that my digestive problems must be because I wasn’t eating healthily enough.
Finally, I stopped being vegetarian and my digestion improved. However, the damage had been done. I was told by both a Naturopath and a Gastroenterologist that I had to eat low fiber food (white bread, white rice, etc.) because my bowels were so irritated by all the health food.
To relieve my constipation, the Gastroenterologist put me on senna tablets. These worked like a charm. Once my bowels were moving regularly, the other symptoms receded.
He told me I had a “lazy bowel” (my mother always said I was “born constipated”) and that all the fiber in the world wasn’t going to resolve that; it was only going to back up in my system and make it worse. I could attest to that! On the other hand, the senna makes the bowel contract (which mine doesn’t do very well). It works perfectly for me.
Now, I have only been on the Primal Blueprint path a few days, but I have dropped 1.5 pounds, sleep better, wake up more refreshed, have no stiffness in my feet in the morning (I’m 60 years old, by the way), feel more energized and am NEVER hungry. I have simply stopped thinking about when my next meal is. I sometimes don’t feel hungry until 3 o’clock in the afternoon, after a PB breakfast.
Yesterday, I had a high-carbohydrate (grain-based) day (100% vegetarian, but not vegan). I woke up bloated and gassy this morning and my feet were stiff when I got out of bed. I am dragging myself around, don’t feel like doing anything and can hardly wait until the grains are out of my system. On the Primal Blueprint diet, I eat fresh vegetables and fruit, which give me all the carbs I need and don’t leave me feeling horrible like this.
Am I particularly sensitive to grains? Possibly. But that’s why we can’t say that grains are good for everyone. We have to be open and curious. Closed-mindedness would never have led me to this solution, one that works so well for me.
I still have to take senna every day. But that’s because I was born with a lazy bowel; it can’t be fixed with high-fiber foods. Been there; almost killed me. It might not be fixed with the PB diet. But it’s early days yet, so that remains to be seen. The other benefits of the PB diet have so far proven to be so beneficial that whether it fixes my lazy bowel or not is irrelevant. I’ve had that my entire life.
Oh, and to those of you who are about to say that my system will get used to the senna and it will stop working, my Gastroenterologist says that idea has been dis-proven. And, after ten years, the same dosage is still working fine for me.
Stay open-minded, folks! Never say never. Don’t let stubbornness cause you to overlook a possible solution to your aches, pains, discomforts and illnesses. And that goes for the chronic dieters among you, as well as the health care professionals. Think outside the box… especially the cereal box!
I tried giving up wheat recently. But it had a nasty backlash in my system. I started getting fevers, chills, aches and white hot headaches lasting hours behind my eyes. just keeping them open kept me in pain. i slept 16 hours a night for 3 nights. this was just four or five days after stopping eating wheat and grains. At one point my roommate, a doctor, asked when i had started the change in my diet. and advised me to eat some wheat. i had some flour tortilla for a midnight snack, and the next day the headaches stopped, the fever didn’t come back, by the afternoon, after some more flour tortilla snacks w/ meat and rice, I felt 100% better again.
I googled around and found a few posts about wheat withdrawal, which seemed to match up with what occured with me. If i go off wheat again, it’ll be a slower process to give myself more time to adjust.
@ vince – yes, gluten withdrawal is very real. When I gave up gluten 7 yrs ago I felt worse for the first 3 days. I am so glad someone warned me or I might have given up right then. On day 4 I noticed my knees no longer hurt as I walked down steps. That was the first of many health improvements I experienced. I also noticed that I feel better if I avoid all grains.
So I’ve been on this diet for a little more than two weeks, cut out the grains and started eating more meat and veggies to compensate. Here are some things that I’ve noticed:
1. Hungry Pangs are gone. Completely. I get hungry, but never in any sort of sudden wave or extreme stomach irritability that I did when I was eating the carbs.
2. I’m never gassy. And I used to have TERRIBLE gas. This diet has been nothing short of miraculous when it comes to eliminating digestive problems.
3. I never get bloated. I used to eat until I was stuffed. On this diet, satiation occurs without having to stuff your face. It’s just more filling without having an uncomfortable fullness afterward.
4. My fatty liver disappeared. I actually had symptoms of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease when I was eating grains. Since then, the disease has gone away.
That’s what’s happened so far. I’m hoping to loose some weight on this diet in addition to fixing a lot of my other food related problems. Seeing that I just don’t need to eat as much any more to feel full, I figure this should come naturally. Thanks Mark.
It is true that America spends more than three trillion dollars/year for a “health care system” composed of diseases, 80% of which are totally preventable by lifestyle change…given that there is a worldwide epidemic of prediabetes and diabetes it is clear that most people need to consider a “diabetic diet” for life….but how can a meat based diet be sustained with a global population of almost seven billion people now …with the number to double before 2050?
It can’t. But a grain-based diet will kill off a bunch of people who won’t listen to the science behind the Paleo way of eating.
We should never have had this many people in the first place. Agriculture is what caused the population explosion – to all our detriment, at least as far as nutrition and health is concerned.
I totally agree with you Griff. I understand how agriculture has brought us to here. I come from a hardcore agrarian society(at least my gr8 grndad), in southern india where rice is cultivated. Today, you can
buy 40 kg of rice for just US$1 in my state. I am not kidding. Its heavily subsidised, the only way to feed the poor.
I loved eating primal in Melbourne,AU but after coming back to India it was totally impossible to eat primal though i can afford it.I don’t wanna trumpet but i am well off.The reason is plain simple , all the butchers’ here are the filthiest place. You can see the blood running in the small gutter(4inch) from backside of the shop to the front main gutter(2foot wide open sewer) in front of the shop near the door, on top of which he has a wooden log table where he chops the meat. Above that are iron hooks which has couple of goats and chicken hanging covered fully with house flies(u know there is sewer directly below). You may wonder its 3rd world country and the price will be so low that these guys can’t afford refrigeration, chicken breast will cost arnd US$5-6 per kg which is a lot for indian GDP, yet they can’t afford cooling,disenfection,protective wear,sanitary supplies etc. All they have is cages for chicken,logs, crude knives and In rare cases a stainless steel table. Fish is even worse. I’ve seen ppl standing in the filth-scales and fish heads carpeting the floor.
Maybe there’ll be one supermarket or two in the city which has cold storage but people rarely go there to buy meat cuz its mostly old. Not to mention we have mandatory 3 hr power supply hold off – enough to contaminate in 95deg F.
This is inhumane than those videos that i see on youtube posted by PETA. Trust me, its ghastly. Inhumane animals and humans alike.
The best i would do is go early in the morning to get a readily killed bird/goat. I can only be so much optimistic and iron willed.
What would you do if that is the only way you could buy meat?I won’t even call myself unfortunate.
I listen(try to follow) to the science behind Paleo way of eating but can u give me better option than eating grain based diet and killing myself. On the bright side 99.9% of the produce are locally grown. I can buy a variety leafy greens and purples.All within 50km radius. Fresh RAW milk every morning home delivered and if i want buffalo milk too. Cheap coconuts and its oil(fresh,unbleached).palm fruit and mangoes. Homemade butter, ghee.
I do my best.
You sir, are a world class idiot.
I’m wondering if there’s anyone in this comment thread supporting this way of eating who ever exercises.
Ever.
Cut all the carbs out of a cyclist’s diet and see how well she does in her next race.
Get off the couch you fat dummies.
obvious troll is obvious.
If you had something important to say, someone might listen to you. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, you’re so emotionally attached to your own nutritional ideas that you feel the need to throw around insults instead of having a discussion.
I shouldn’t expect anything less from a troll. You probably just want the attention instead of trying to convince anyone here. So, here you go, have the last laugh. You win, I guess.
troll maybe…
Some people look at this stuff and are just so indoctrinated by conventional wisdom that they spit in the face of this information without giving it a chance in their minds. Its an example of being intolerant, and they should be ashamed.
Also, Id like to say that as a health professional, I understand the importance of peer reviewed, scientific evidence. However, nothing even becomes researched before its an idea, or a question. No scientist does research on something randomly, only to find some breakthrough. Yet people come to a website where someone is trying to promote an idea, and they demand science. I really think evidence based clinical decision making is making us stupid…
Some other things NOT proven by science: fitness = health
endurance training/ cardio = necessary for good health
In fact, a good portion of conventional wisdom has NO grounding in science.
P.S. — people who think they need grains for carbs and fibre… um, have you ever heard of fruits and vegetables?
Thank God I read this article Mark, I’m suffering from a mysterious knee injury and because of it I’m suffering from minor depression. I was on the primal diet for about a month before it and it was the best thing I’ve ever done. However because of this minor depression I said to myself I don’t give a shit I’m gonna eat whatever I want, luckily the worst I was eating was whole grains, Thanks again for the post mark your the man, I wish there was more people on the same boat you are on, around me more often.
Watch the following video and comment. It came from a credible health/fitness website. The authors of the web site have decided to follow the diet. It’s possible to ‘prove’ any idea or opinion.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1549763175867837730&hl=en#
Paleo and the Primal Blueprint work for me.
Vegetarians should be shot and we should all feast on their remains. Not kidding. We’d get them out of the way, get fed, and not have to worry about disposal. What could be more sensible than cannibalism?
If you cut out grains and sugars, then where are people going to get their main source of carbohydrates. Complex carbohydrates are needed metabolites for brain function and the average person needs to eat at least 130g of carbohydrate per day. This is to prevent ketosis, or the build up of keto acids that form when a person eats more fat or protein than carbohydrates needed to completely catabolize them.
Fiber is also needed in the diet. It has been proven to prevent colon cancer and diverticulitis.
Carbohydrates are in fruit, nuts, strachy veggies and greens. Tons of fiber is in the skin of apples, pairs, zucchini and other yummies :). I get plenty of both carbs and fiber daily without grains… and prefer the fresh stuff too.
Kristi: Complex carbs – indeed, any carbs – are not necessary for the body to function. Or the brain, either. Look up “gluconeogenesis” and be enlightened – the body can produce adequate glucose from ingested protein.
Fiber is actually damaging to the intestine. Eat fat! That’ll grease your insides and make things move along MUCH more healthfully than fiber ever could.
A datum point: I am 71 and have not had any serious health issues, have never been more than 15# above my normative weight (and usually within 10#) and have been a habitual high carb consumer. That is, until about 3 years ago when my doctor said that my cholestrol level and blood pressure were borderline and I should try to adjust my diet else I would end up with meds. So I tried (6 months per) low fat and near vegan menues, keeping my caloric intake constant (1900kC). The result was that the undesirable effects were controlled but I could not stand the food, particularly drastic salt reduction. So
I then tried the low carb menu (more or less Paleo)and have now been on it for 2-1/2 months and I am amazed by the positive results ( I am a natural sceptic). The food tastes great, my blood pressure is 110/70, flatulence is almost gone, dry skin (on heels)is disapearing,mild gum disease/plaque has improved. Blood panel will be done at annual checkup (2 months) and will be the definitive indicator. I indulge myself in a daily capucino and a slice of homemade sourdough bread (life is not worth living without some indulgence?)which make up about 45 gm carbs from a total of just under 150.I would not have believed the claims on this site had I not tried the diet myself. BTW I admire Mark’s posts for their balance and lack of zeal, the latter a turnoff for any sceptic.
Karen: I would laugh at you because it’s obvious you haven’t a clue what you’re talking about and haven’t done the research, but I try not to mock the ignorant. However, I’ll address your points, such as they are.
First, Dr. Atkins died as the result of a slip-and-fall injury on an icy sidewalk, which fractured his skull and put him into a coma. Because of the glucose drip he was given in the hospital for “nourishment,” he ballooned in weight (glucose is what causes you to get fat, not fat). Here’s a copy of his death certificate: http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/atkinsmed3.html The immediate cause of his death is listed on his OFFICIAL DEATH CERTIFICATE as “Blunt impact injury of head with epidural hematoma” – that is, a blood clot inside the skull, causing pressure on the brain and the resulting coma, due to a fall. NOWHERE on his death certificate does it say ANYTHING about weight causing his death, so sorry, but you’re wrong.
Second, I will agree that steak is not as good for you when it’s industrially produced, so look for grass-fed beef and have steaks from that. But your assertion that saturated fat causes heart disease has been debunked by scientific study so many times it’s not worth arguing with you about. Go read Gary Taubes’ “Good Calories, Bad Calories,” which refers to literally hundreds of these studies, and be enlightened there, too. Or even better – go watch this video, which is a lecture he gave on the science:
http://www.dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm
When you’ve read and watched those things, feel free to come back and learn.
@Ray/Griff:
You are an overbearing boor, and you do no credit to the ideas you endorse.
I’m not Ray, and he is an overbearing boor (not to mention an idiot).
On the other hand, I know I’m right about this subject, and I have zero patience for people who don’t get the facts and the science behind what Mark says. If that makes me an overbearing boor, so be it. I’ll wear the title proudly. At least I’m not going to die of heart disease or diabetes like Ray.
Griff, as I mentioned above in a reply to Ray – I think you are obviously a very good person, and very patient to boot. Congratulations on even trying with these people – and backing up the truth with evidence – far more than any of them is able to do. You are not an overbearing boor and some of us recognise this. So love, you just GROK ON and let the trolls die off naturally.
Those of us who have stayed here on MDA are those who came, read an alternative opinion and then researched it ourselves, rather than making ridiculous, knee-jerk accusations and dismissing the whole idea out of hand simply because our favorite foods have been challenged and we are unwilling to explore further in case it makes us feel guilty about the way we want to eat.
Everyone is mortal, if you can afford (in economic and/or health terms) to eat grains and steak why not? No point saving up. Balance in everything is key though, as too much of anything is bad. Enjoy today’s sunshine, it might rain tomorrow.
Ted, my father thought as you do. He died when he was 63. If he’d followed the Primal way of living he would have lived a lot longer. Instead, he was sick for most of his life, and he died of gangrene that was inoperable due to his brittle diabetes and cancer. I don’t know about you, but that’s not something I want to have happen to me.
Why are grain lovers bothering to comment on this thread? Are they trying to recruit the convinced? All you have to do it try it your self and see for your self.
Reading it on some crazy mans blog, 3 ‘trusted’ scientific sources or a 30 person panel of nutrition experts only helps to back up your reason to trying it.
Only then will you know for yourself. Funny how NO one this thread who has actually applied Marks suggestions has said they didn’t see some positive results from just quitting the grains!
Personally I’m almost (with in 6lbs) of being as lean as I’ve been since being a cheerleader in high school and I don’t workout nearly as hard as mark suggests. Down 17 pounds since April 2010 and dripping off as I eat eggs and bacon almost daily!
Oh and same of my husband. We also have 3 primal kids that besides the primal health benefits, now aren’t subjected to the disgusting practices of BIG AGRI dairy and meat companies.
Don’t knock it ’til you try in and surely don’t try it if it doesn’t feel good in you gut… then again could be those grains giving you tummy issues.
I am new to all of this.. but after reading the blog and all the comments I am more confused than I ever was!! I don’t know if I should eat meat, not eat meat, eat grains, not eat grains..wth?? Most of my family are vegetarians and seem to be pretty healthy.. I am not and my sister tried it and it made her weak and hair started falling out, etc. so she went back to eating meat. My doctor told me to get LOTS of fiber..I thought that meant eating grains!! I AM TOTALLY CONFUSED as to what I should be doing.
Can someone please help me here!!
I wrote a book to answer all these questions. 🙂
http://www.primalblueprint.com/products/The-Primal-Blueprint.html
Wow this is a good heated debate! My opinion is that people should open up and thiink for a second…..did we evolve to eat grains? Did the Paleo human being have access to bread and pasta? NO NO and NO.
I tried to go vegan for a few months what happend? I dropped 30 pounds of muscle, I looked like I was sick and dying! IS that health? No it is not, we need ANIMAL PROTEIN, ANIMAL MEAT, FAT, BACON, LIVER, MMMMMM BLOODY GRASS_FED BRAINS!!! Wrap that aroung your vegan head
The only inaccuracy I see in this article is that bees don’t carry “seeds” from flower to flower…they carry pollen (i.e., plant sperm). Other than that, rock on, Mark! (And it’s no wonder I about killed myself being vegetarian!)
I was willing to entertain the idea that you had a basis for your argument. I have long thought wheat flour was the source of many digestive problems.
However, I could not read past the part where you interpret the study that says something about grains “rupturing their outer covering”. From which you conclude that it will “literally rupture my intestinal lining”. Clearly you have a reading comprehension issue that you need to clear up before you begin to be remotely credible. And you seem to think that “increases the level of lubricating mucus” is a bad thing? You also need a class in anatomy.
Jenny, its obviously you who has the “reading comprehension problem” if you bother to go and reread the article the “outer coverings” being ruptured are those of the cells lining the digestive tract, not the covering of the grains. Ergo, it is literally the lining of the digestive tract which is being ruptured.
Also YOU, in fact, obviously need a class in anatomy. When your body produces mucus it is very often in response to an irritant. You know, like when you get a runny nose from pollens and other allergens getting up there? They are not supposed to be there and your body produces mucus to wash them out! Same when you get an infection in your lungs – your body produces mucus to cover the invaders and then you can cough them out, removing them from your body. So yes- when your body produces excess mucus – it generally is in response to a BAD thing.
Honestly the banal stupidity of some peoples comments are amazing. Particularly those who are guilty of the mistake they insist on unfairly accusing Mark of.
Please people, just read things properly and check around this entire site (then do your own research)before making unfounded accusations and revealing your complete lack of understanding of the human body. If you honestly feel you then have a valid argument you can back up with science, well…have at it! And we will all gladly consider your opinion.
I’m on board with not eating grains, but think the tone used by Griff and others in explaining counter arguments is borderline hateful. I would bet Mark would prefer these conversations take a higher road. Just saying.
Well, la di flippin’ da. I don’t cotton to speech police; I tell it like it is. If you can’t handle the truth, that’s SO not my problem.
This is the second time Iv read this….first being in the The Primal Blueprint. Iv stopped all Grains for over 2 weeks now and I’ll never look back. I can already feel my body changing from the inside out! Thank you Mark for this great post!
It seems that Dr Joseph Mercola agrees with the no grains approach to diet.I have not eliminated but cut back on grains because I know I’m gluten intolerant and over time perhaps I’ll go even further. Not for any other reason than to see what it actually will make me feel like,currently at 51 78kg and 5% bodyfat I’m in good shape.Admittedly I love to read about these type of theories and trying out various things I read about(I’ve been on Barley grass for a few months,and I’m hooked for life on that product!)
I think you are seriously misguided. Did you know that glucose, the sugar compound derived from carbohydrate metabolism is the primary fuel for your brain. Without it, your brain does not function properly and is forced to convert to proteins for energy which are very harmful because of their high nitrogen content. Protein is the only substance that contains nitrogen which is toxic to the body. Also, carbs provide the body with glycogen necessary to rebuild and repair muscles after exercise, and restore energy levels. And though I may sound snobbish, this info is coming from a recovery anorexic. Believe me I have had my battles with the dreaded carbs but I have learned that your body needs them to survive!
hmm anyone has a reply to this?
Your body (and your brain) don’t need nearly as much glucose as you’ve been taught they do. Your body can create glucose from protein that you eat just fine on its own. It’s called gluconeogenesis. Look it up sometime. Dr. Eades has a fine article on it.
As for nitrogen, you excrete it in your sweat and in your urine. Your body can handle it just fine.
Breaking Free, you are one of many who only have one side of that particular argument. Actually our brains, whilst they do prefer glucose, are able to get by just fine without it, otherwise we would not have survived all the lean times through our evolution (or even just a winter). As Griff mentions – look up gluconeogenesis and ketosis (not ketoacidosis – which is, indeed a bad thing, but ketosis).
And frankly, (whilst it is sad that you battled such a disease and I commend you for beating it) I hardly think being an anorexic qualifies you as an expert on nutrition.
Articles like this have a good point BUT they are NOT practical by any mean. The average person that reads this will think, “okay, then I guess I’ll go on the ice cream diet” or something to that effect.
And if they do that, they’ve missed the point entirely. It’s completely practical to remove grains from the diet. I’ve done it for nearly a year and I’ve never been healthier. My arthritis is gone. My migraines are gone. My IBS is gone. My diabetes is completely under control. The cessation of grains did all that for me – and I did NOT go on the ice cream diet. (I did, however, go on the Primal Blueprint, which doesn’t include ice cream, either.)
Mark has the full Primal Blueprint 101 available right here on this site. You might want to educate yourself there.
Mike, WTF???
Because a random blogger on the Internet has so much more information available to them than the people who study this stuff for a living, I think I’ll stop eating anything but lettuce and stop drinking anything but water.
Sure thing, Captain Conspiracy.
People sure get worked up about food here.
Hey… food is supposed to fun! Throughout history humans have made mealtime the highlight of the day. The stress levels I see here will kill far more people than the occasional cream puff.
That said, lemme jump in and say that I like this blog, Mark – and it’s now on my reading list.
I’m a grain lover, but I know from experience they have to be cut if I want to keep my weight down. I made that decision years ago when I looked the number of calories in bread/rice compared to the actual nutritional value. Simple as that…and it worked.
Meat is another story, call it “dead animal carcass” or whatever – I don’t think it’s very nice to eat something while it’s still alive. Freshly killed is another story…
In may case (and many others) I have a gene (hla-b27)that was specifically designed for meat eaters, thanks to my ancient ancestors. It also causes a slightly overactive immune system that can trigger arthritis and other problems. Whether I eat meat or not, this gene will be working away in my body, for better or worse. I figure I may as well give it something useful to do, and so I eat meat -raw and cooked.
I see no need to invent a completely new diet that my ancestors of 1000 years ago wouldn’t recognize as food.
But that’s just me. You all can eat whatever you want:)
Just outta curiosity, how much carbohydrate would been in a grain free diet?
Im assuming that the only carb sources are potatoes, sweet potatoes and other root veggies. Or am I missing another source???
Is this diet very low in calories as well? I have a very physical job (racehorse horse rider) and Im a type one diabetic so I need lots of carb to keep my energy levels up and my blood sugars stable.
How would I do this without grains?
You don’t need carbohydrates. In fact, if you’re a diabetic, carbs are the worst thing you can eat. Your doctors and the ADA are flying in the face of real science every time they tell you that you should eat carbs.
There are a number of Type 1s on the forums here. Every one of them has reduced their insulin use (in some cases dramatically) and improved their blood sugars by eliminating starchy/sugary carbs and minimizing other carbs. Potatoes, grains, and fruit are all starchy/sugary carbs; leafy greens and other veggies tend not to have that problem.
Mark’s carbohydrate curve recommends no more than about 150 grams of (mostly non-starchy/sugary) carbs per day for an active, healthy individual – and less than that for a non-active, unhealthy individual.
I’m a type 2 diabetic and I’ve been controlling my diabetes with this diet for three days short of a year (8/13 is my first anniversary of starting PB). I rarely go over 50g of carbs in a day. In that time I’ve lost 98 pounds, normalized my blood sugars, and I feel great. You can do it to. Get Mark’s book, and read his blogs and the forums.
Do you ever go hypoglycaemic Griff?
If i dont eat enough carb to fuel my muscles while working I have hypoglycaemia which is very very unpleasant and dangerous especially when you are on the back of a horse.
My insulin requirements are very low because of the exercise i do.
I really dont think I could do a days work with out at least 200g of carb. Im 5’8 and weight 60kg.
Are type 2’s affected by hypoglyceamia Griff? If so how do you control your sugars with exercise???
No, I never go hypo, and if you do this, you won’t either. Once your body converts to burning fat for fuel, hypos should be a thing of the past.
I don’t exercise much. I don’t feel the need to. My average sugars are around 95 or so most days.
Type 2s are not usually affected by hypoglycemia unless they’re on insulin.
Read Mark’s book, and the one that was recommended to you by Dr. Bernstein, too. Bernstein is a Type I and he’s got his diabetes completely under control by not eating carbs. And he’s in his 70s last I heard.
Please read Dr. Richard K Bernstein’s book “Diabetes Solution”. It may save your life. He recommends a very low carb diet for all diabetics so they can maintain truly normal blood sugar levels. Dr. Bernstein is a type 1 who turned his health around by limiting carbs.
Thanks for the sentiments Anne, but to be honest my life is not in danger, I have very good blood sugar control and no weight problems.
Griff thank you for trying to help, but I dont think you understand hypoglycemia, I will end up with low blood sugar levels due to the exercise I am doing as part of my job. My body will use fat as an energy source when there is a lack of insulin but for a type one this is very very very dangerous and life threatening, As a by product of metabolising fat is ketosis which will lead to ketoacidosis.(in type ones)
Thank you for trying to help but starting to see the dangers of asking for advice on the internet! lol
eilis, that’s what I’m trying to tell you. You won’t have hypos. There are many type 1s following this diet and they don’t have hypos. Eating carbs is what gives you hypos!
Look, read Dr. Bernstein’s book. Ketosis will not make you sick – ketoacidocis will, but that only happens when your blood sugar is out of control. They are not the same thing! Fat metabolism is what will give you the fuel your body needs in order to function, dramatically reduce your need for insulin, and eliminate your need for carb intake.
You have been fed a line of nonsense by doctors who aren’t up on the science. Please read the resources you’ve been pointed at. Go read the research.
You forgot one; carbohydrates are needed to live.
No, they’re not. The body can create them out of protein. We do not need carbs at all.
I think based off of what Ive read I would like to try a grain free diet, But my only question would be, Is it safe and healthy to eat or drink cereal grasses? like wheat grass or barley grass since they come from grains?????
If it comes from a grain plant, by definition I’d avoid it. You can get what you need from real food. Ditch the grains!
Is it safe and healthy to eat or drink wheat grass and other ceral grasses like barley??? as they do come from grain I believe……. does anyone know anything regarding this?
the only thing Im still not clear of Is consuming seeds???? would falxseeds and other seeds be part of the NO NO list of things not to eat? are seeds the same as grain in a way???
I love revisiting this topic from time to time, especially since I’m constantly getting emails for “advice” on nutrition/diet plans from people in work, and when the advice is given, an argument ensues.
I work for a major food manufacturer, which is kind of ironic, considering I will never eat any of the food from the brands we sell, and consistently tell people outside of work to avoid them.
I’ve argued with “Karen” about 100 times, and it’s not fun anymore. I used to love luring them into a debate and then crushing them with recent science proving the point.
The way I look at it now is that, it takes a certain breed of people to walk against the grain (no pun intended). There are those that will always fall back onto what the “government” tells them. (The word government is used very liberally here and is not intended to specifically name them as the source of misinformation. It’s a broad generalization of corporate controlled information.)
There are just as many people who believe Mark is a quack as there are people who believe in him.
For one, I believe in him based off of application, not just because his words are intelligent and back by scientific studies.
Guys like Sission, Cordain, Wolf, Taubes, etc do us a great service by exposing these nutritional myths. They aren’t in it to become millionaires. They want to see people healthy, stronger, and living longer.
I read through most of the comments here, and I know it is pretty much dead at this point but I just found this website and want to say something: if grains are so bad then why have some traditional cultures used them successful and were free of disease and tooth decay? I am thinking specifically of a swedish people group isolated from the cities that ate mostly raw dairy products and rye bread and were extremely healthy people.
It is in the PREPARATION of them that is key, you have to let yeast and bacteria do the breaking down of the toxins and gluten and whatever else you are referring to that is so bad for our body. When I eat fermented grains I do not get the bloating and blood sugar spike that I get from unsoaked/fermented grains. I wonder why people have not addressed this.
Well this makes me sad. I love breads. No way I could stop eating them. Oh well, guess I’ll die early.
Kris, that’s only because you’re addicted to them. Try not having bread (or other grain products) for thirty days. You will never go back.
Boy this thread is really hopping. Much like Griff, I had incredible weight loss results going very low carb. I was 46 when I started it, going on 48 now. I have not eaten wheat, corn, or any product that contains wheat or corn for two years. This eliminates virtually all processed foods, so I have to make my own meals.
You can definitely thrive without wheat and corn, I have never been healthier. I went from being unable to walk a mile to exercising 12-15 hours a week (I love lifting weights but was unable to do so for many years do to poor health attributable to my diet).
I think pretty much everyone including Dr. Atkins agrees that if you are going to be very physically active you do need to eat some carbs … once you are past the “weight loss” phase into the “let’s see how far I can take my new-found youth” phase, you are going to want some carbs to maximize your athletic potential.
If on the other hand you are not interested in athletics, then there is no reason to eat carbs at all, and definitely not grains. It takes some getting used to, but you can thrive without them.
I would just like to say that since I have cut out grains, my acne has started to dissapear. Hazah!
No grains stands true for me. i cut out grains from my diet and i found that i had more energy and was less often tired in the mornings.
Hey i’ve been in a mixed martial arts class and i’m told i need a lot of complex carbs in my diet to keep my energy up and i was wondering if anyone knows what i should substitute for grains to get them.
Well, I knew this already, but I think that is because I am from SoCal. I moved to Connecticut and people seem to know little about nutrition. I actually met someone who thought iceberg lettuce was the only variety of lettuce. I think in most parts of the country people have this 50’s knowledge of nutrition. Also we are not meant to eat near as much meat as we do. (especially red meat)
Hi,
I recently was told that (pending a colonoscopy to confirm it categorically) that I have Celiac Disease – which I have had symptoms from since I was 9yrs old and it has only just been picked up at 29yrs old officially.
Is a primal diet, good for people that have celiac? i.e. is anything you promote packed with Gluten?
Thanks
An upper endoscopy with biopsies of the small intestine is used to confirm a diagnosis of celiac disease. The celiac experts are now saying that 1% of the population has celiac disease but 10-30% has non-celiac gluten sensitivity. So you don’t have to have celiac disease to be hurt by gluten.
Yes, since a primal diet removes all grains, it would be gluten free. I have stopped eating all the processed gluten free foods and my health improved. You do have to watch out for cross contamination with gluten. Trace amounts of gluten can cause problems.
your an ass
Right back at you, blockhead.
This is what I needed to read.
I was wondering if I was missing out on any nutrients if I replaced grains with massive amounts of veggies. Thanks.
Hello All,
Well after coming across this site last night and reading all the comments I decided to try eradicating grain, potato and bean products from my diet TODAY for one month(with the blueprint book on order).
First impressions: really hard. Even with still eating organic oats in the morning getting through the day for someone who only eats fish it’s hard. Especially when needing a quick snack. But bought some buckwheat flour to make bread and avoided all the inner isles at the supermarket.
Couple of questions arose:
A far as beans go, are broad beans & garden beans out? These things I would eat raw before…
Is it advised to avoid dairy products too for a healthy individual?
regards,
ryan
Helllo all,
After reading all the positive comments I decided to give it a try myself, immediately. Three full days down the line and im struggling, even when cheatin in the mornings with my organic muesli. Im very sluggish, get stomach pains, and odd pains flare up instead of settling. Nor do I filled after a big ass fish salad with extra cheese. Hungry throughout the day. Anyway couple of questions rose from these experiences:
Can I eat garden beans, like broad beans?
what about olives?
are dairy products to abstained from as well?
I want to read the site to gain a bit more knowledge but I wont be able to until next week.
Cheers.
Ryan
With all due respect, I think the reason you’re struggling so much is that you’re not actually following the Blueprint in any way at all. A big bowl of oats in the morning, buckwheat flower, museli, pasta, blah blah blah–all those things will make you hungry and sluggish, inflamed and acidic.
My suggestion is that you cut out the cheats and give it an honest go. Have some eggs in the morning. Eat your big ass salad with the meat and fat that will actually satiate you (not the veggies that won’t satisfy in and of themselves or grains that make you sicker and hungrier).
Sorry I posted a similar post twice, didnt realise my first post came through.
Interesting info, thanks Emily. Will be visiting your site too. As Im struggling with a high metabolism and a almost veggie diet.
it’s obvious to me as a “newbe” that someone has invested alot of time and research into Primal Diet and has taken the time and effort to detail their findings and the benefits of changing their eating habits in an attempt to accomplish better health.
To be totally honest, this is by no means the only web site or article which promtes this type of eating. Granted there are other ideas and methods. NONETHELESS, people are following this website because they want to try something different because other methods haven’t worked r they just need to feel part of a community to help them make changes. This is a great way to encourage people to think about their health which in turn filters through to their freinds and familes. Anyone posting negative comments, doctor or scientist or non believer, really need to stop and create their own blogs or websites to encourage people to try other ways if thet are passionate about it and not scare people away or confuse people into not bothering. After all, what can be so wring with this diet ?? At worse, It way better than most people are eating anyway and any improvement is a start. I myself am planning to take much of this method into my eating plan and massively reduce things like Grains and sugars and processed foods and even cut out what has com to be known as social skoking,, ( for me, 5 ciggs a month ) which i need about as much as I need grain..
So, thank you for all who have made efforts to post positive comments and I look forward to the challenegs and if it clearly doesn’t work for me i will try something although i actually believe in it 🙂
Andreas ( ps haven’t spell checked,, ha ha)
This entire discourse is making me sad. We can all make the best decisions we know how to for our bodies and learn as much as we can to HELP each other but I see absolutely no need for such arrogance on every side, it’s not helping anyone.
Excellent article! I recently started the paleo diet and my dentist was astounded my periodontal disease virtually disappeared. Pocket depths reduced 50% and only a couple teeth are left problematic!
I’m curious what are the effects if you do stumble back across gains again after a long stint off them? Also what about cooking techniques? I keep hearing of cooking techniques that naturalize Lectins. Such as fermentation in sour dough bread and soaking beans in acidic solution.
I don’t have any plans to return to the grains in the near future. Just interested by the idea that they could be mitigated through some cooking techniques?
Thanks for the great article!!
Fiber keeps me hungry every time. IDK?
Hi – I’ve heard of this concept before, but never experimented myself with the diet. Some brief research does bring up some scientific evidence in its favor, but while this does seem to indicate PB is a viable diet choice, more than one review questions how it meets vitamin D and calcium requirements. I wondered if anyone knew about research that addresses this (and I do realize that people should be able to get enough vitamin D from sun exposure, which is a fine argument, except if you’re living in an area that is too cold to expose enough skin for the requisite amount of time without freezing). Thanks!
My stomach aches started when I was a little kid…within 30 min to an hour after eating. Lots of cream of wheat (especially agonizing), oatmeal (should be sold as a sleep supplement), and various whole grain breads and pastas, tortillas and beans were our staples. It escalated to excruciating pain episodes by the time I was a teenager. Laying down and not moving while distracting myself with a novel was my favorite hobby starting early.
Grains peddled as a health food…what a horrible joke.
According to Wikipedia, almonds have high levels of phytates, higher in fact than many grains. Why aren’t they vilified here?
This is an honest question, my scientist SO has been nitpicking some very specific parts of the Primal Blueprint.
Cool article, and I love your writing style, by the way! Oh and, I think you meant phytic acid and not phytate, which would be the salt form.
This Mark Sisson guy sounds like a total dick. Maybe he could benefit from not being such a salad-eating wanker and live a little. There’s too many mixed messages about dieting these days. I say eat what you want and stay active. Assuming it’s not Burger King every day.
Hell, I bet I’m more healthy than this stuck up sissy anyways.
I love having no grains in my diet – my health has improved remarkably since pursuing this way of living.
Thanks Mark.
Hey Mark. I just finished reading your article and attempted to read all the comments, for an answer I was looking for. I gave up 100+ comments later.
So here it goes..
I was just talking about this with my girl friend a few days ago whom has over the past couple of months gone gluten-free. She’s lost all her baby weight by doing so (and exercise of course) and it has inspired me to get back on track with my health.
My problem however is meat. I’m a vegetarian. (Please do not try to convince me that meat is good for me. I’d rather happy living animals than a dead one on my plate.) I’m not that savvy in the kitchen so my go-to has been cereal. I’m also a starving student with limited income. So basically my question would be, what the heck am I supposed to eat that would be easy to make, easy on the wallet, contains no-gluten(baby-steps here), no meat, and TASTES GOOD?
Hey Mark. I just finished reading your article and attempted to read all the comments, for an answer I was looking for. I gave up 100+ comments later.
So here it goes..
I was just talking about this with my girl friend a few days ago whom has over the past couple of months gone gluten-free. She’s lost all her baby weight by doing so (and exercise of course) and it has inspired me to get back on track with my health.
My problem however is meat. I’m a vegetarian. (Please do not try to convince me that meat is good for me. I’d rather happy living animals than a dead one on my plate.) I’m not that savvy in the kitchen so my go-to has been cereal. I’m also a starving student with limited income. So basically my question would be, what the heck am I supposed to eat that would be easy to make, easy on the wallet, contains no-gluten(baby-steps here), no meat, and TASTES GOOD?
I’m probably asking for a bit too much here aren’t I? Haha!
Yes, you are.
You could eat a bunch of veggies cooked in massive amounts of butter – that always tastes good. Or eggs, or coconuts..
Yes, you are. Frankly, you need to get away from vegetarianism as quickly as you can if you want to be healthy. Go read Lierre Keith’s book “The Vegetarian Myth.” Humans evolved eating animals – you cannot get away from this fundamental fact.
Thanks so much for all the great information Mark.
I know this might sound like a dumb question, but is white rice (arborio, long grain, basmati etc) ok to eat seeing that they are gluten free? Or does white rice also contain the other anti-nutrients?
Thanks again!
I only have a few questions…
what about the issue of sustainability?
if everyone ate a paleo diet, there would not be enough meat to feed everyone, since it takes more land and water to result in a pound of meat than a pound of grain.
also, what about acidity of the stomach?
most (if not all) meats are very acidic in the stomach, which can actually decrease muscle mass.
raw fruits, veggies and nuts can alkalyze the stomach
all of this info is from the thrive diet, a vegan athlete diet. however, the thrive diet also calls for the elimination of wheat and processed carbs. brendan brazier (the author) calls for the consumption of pseudograins (such as wild rice and quinoa) which are not necesasrily grains.
Grains, breads, flour products and pasta can actually damage your digestive system and feed pathogenic bacteria and yeast. These foods are also very dehydrating. Besides causing constipation, they help you create a toxic environment that is attractive to pathogenic microorganisms like yeast.
My mum had gone primal about a year or so ago but I never really paid much attention as previously she’d been on about 7 different diet fads (Atkins included) But a few months ago I started getting terrible stomach aches after my grain rich chip filled dinners, after about 2 weeks of having them every night I figured I should tell someone soon. Then one night I was heading home on the bus from my boyfriend’s house with the then familiar after dinner ache… I found out the motions of an hour-long bus ride makes it SO MUCH WORSE. I managed to throw up twice(and swallow it back down because who wants to throw up all over a bus?!) and once at my stop I realised there was no way I could walk the rest of the way back (another mile as the bus from town to my house stops at 7) I ended up collapsed on the pavement crying from the pain and eventually got a lift home from my grandad.. then we went to the hospital and I had to wait for 2 hours… Of course by the time the doctor saw me it was gone, and she said it was probably nothing serious. Nothing serious?!
I figured it had to be something I was eating and I remembered mum suffering from gas before, and that it hadn’t happened since she went on this primal diet, so I looked into it, borrowed the book, and after reading it, kicked the grains. I’d say I’ve never had a problem with it since, but… guess who had pasta tonight? >.< Being a very fussy eater AND vegetarian (never let an animal lover watch a video on how they slaughter the animals O_O) I find it hard to completely rid my diet of grains, but I don't have it often anymore at all.
Although saying that, over the last week or so I've been catching myself thinking 'maybe it would be better if I DID eat meat' I'm usually one to stick to my guns on subjects like this so this site must be doing something to my vegetarian mind o_o
I'd like to say a GIGANTIC thank you to you Mark, for saving me from repeating that terrifying night that I thought I was dying in the middle of the street x] The Primal Blueprint has helped me in so many other ways, and while I've never been fat(my ribs have always shown and I've always been asked if I'm anorexic -_-;), I may actually have a flat stomach this summer!
GROK ON!!
Wonderful website you have here but I was wanting to know if you knew of any forums that cover the same topics discussed here? I’d really love to be a part of online community where I can get responses from other knowledgeable people that share the same interest. If you have any suggestions, please let me know. Kudos!
Chia – sure, it’s right here on MDA! Look in the navigation bar across the top of the page, and you’ll see “Forum” over on the right. Click there, and a whole world of Primal goodness will open up to you. Looking forward to seeing you there!
What about sprouted grains? I read somewhere that they very nutritious and don’t have all those phytates.
Also, what about legumes? (Beans, lentils, peas, etc.) Soaked overnight of course, or sprouted before cooking.
I agree that in general grains are not very good. But not all carbs are created equal. For example, eating a big piece of cake will give me a bad sugar rush and zits the next day. Same goes for white bread or pasta.
Gorging on tangerines the other day (they are in season) didn’t leave me feeling anything except happy and full. Nor has eating an occasional slice of whole wheat sourdough bread with plenty of butter with breakfast left me with negative effects. No bowel or skin issues. The opposite actually.
Just saying.
Reading this website and the comments for the last few weeks has caused me to lose all faith I had in America. I have never seen/ read about so many uninformed, stupidly self assured people in my entire life.
The number of times rational people have been struct down in the above comments by people claiming to know what they’re talking based on a small, incomplete, indoctorinated set of tenuous facts is truly distressing. Pray to our Lord that people do not believe this toxic drivel.
(P.S.: Cavemen who supposedly ate like that would have been ACTIVE individuals, and would not have wanted to be losing weight. Oh, and they would RARELY live to the ripe old age of 25. Think before you try to emulate someone.)
Umm you were saying something about “uninformed, stupidly self assured people”?
Cavemen lived well beyond 25 and although he general life expectancy was lower than today, it was because of the high infant mortality, and dying from diseases like tuberculosis and others, for which people are now vaccinated against, or injuries. Not to mention that the paleo diet advocates activity similar to what a cave would’ve done.
If you’ve facts to share, please do. But please don’t insult people’s intelligence and read a few medical studies and books before claiming that all of these people are talking based on “small, incomplete, indoctorinated set of tenuous facts”.
Besides, people who support this diet have tried it and seen the health benefits and lost the weight. Those who discouraged it, have not. That says a lot.
Wow great article, great conversations and debating. I would like to add if somebody hasn’t already to keep on mind metabolic type when trying out the PB lifestyle and/or what ratio of protein, fats and carbs works best for you. I haven’t purchased the PB book YET, but I will, and I’ve read many of Mark’s wonderful blogs. Anyway I think that PB definitely is the way to go. I don’t know too much about metabolic typing but each individual person has certain specific foods that work better ethic them than others ie blueberries work well with them but blackberries not so much. I also read that people with type O blood generally should eat more fats and proteins and people with type A or B should eat more carbs. Obviously in context to PB the source of carbs would be vegetables and some fruit. I don’t know the science of metabolic typing, but perhaps our particular met. types is related to the fact that some of our ancestors were able to hunt and eat more meat and less plants and visa-versa depending on their geographic locations etc? Just a hunch :). Basically my point is that I believe that PB will work for anybody, just that you may have to adjust your portion of meats fats and greens depending PB your individual body chemistry :-). Mark I cannot wait to read your book, and adjust my lidestyle! Guys sorry for the huge paragraph with no breaks and the run-on sentences! I’m typing from my phone and didn’t feel like spacing blah blah. Typing in a hurry.
Wow, I am a raw vegan and I agree that grains are not good for us. I am a little surprised by the hate that is being spewed in the comments and to be honest I am a little taken aback. I probably will never visit this site again. How is attacking people going to educate anyone? Many of the things you are teaching here are great but I doubt I would feel welcomed because I am vegan (a healthy one too btw) and will never change that.
im open for suggestions, but please everybody, CITE YOUR SOURCES. most of the stuff in the article and all the stuff in the comments does not have a source. do you all really expect me to believe that everybody here has a PHD in some kind of health/nutrition/medical subject??? give me a break and just get me some peer reviewed facts.
Correct me if I’m wrong but our entire body and brain is operating on GLUCOSE
so if I eliminate all grains/wheat, where will I be getting my glucose from ?
the body produces glucose through the process of gluconeogenesis when you don’t eat glucose. If you want to ingest glucose, you can get ample amounts from certain fruits and vegetables.
Like much of anything else, the Primal Blueprint’s anti-carb info doesn’t go quite far enough. If eaten inappropriately, in excess and by those sensitive they can do harm. But, there are conditions and situation where eating them may be required, for example to bind minerals which a body produces in excess or which someone has consumed in error. It may interest you to know that the first use for grain was making beer. Pelease note however that brewing decreases these “anti-nutrients” as do most preparation methods. So you not only have to conssider what you eat but how what you’re eating was prepared. For those who think meat is unhealthy, I remind you that the strictly vegan human species died out many millions of years ago. The Neandthals ate almost only meat and were far more successful until a failure to adapt erased them. Omnivorousness remains the best path to success so eat the steak and enjoy it.
As if you needed any further supporting evidence to justify your position…
However, I thought I’d share what I found over at Wellness Mama’s site (http://wellnessmama.com/575/how-grains-are-killing-you-slowly/)
She gives grains a baggin too.
Love your work Mark. Have started the ‘Grok’ program and already lost 5.5kg (almost a stone).
Thanks again
Timberwolf
Don’t Italians eat (grains) pasta? They were found to be the healthiest people on planet? They also used olive oil in their diet.
No, Italians were never found to be the healthiest people on the planet. That’s pretty funny, actually. 😀
list of unhealthy things:
chocolate
gummi bears
prime-grade steak
ice cream
weed
sex
grains (including bread, donuts, cake, pasta…)
who really wants to live forever?
list of unhealthy things:
chocolate
gummi bears
prime-grade steak
ice cream
weed
sex
grains (including bread, donuts, cake, pasta…)
…who really wants to live forever?
I hate that I was born italian and getting rid of grains will be the hardest thing Ive ever done in my entire life….heres from suffering from carb difficiencies til my body adjust ha
what about quinoa? i got extremely lean while eating quinoa with whole foods
Mark, please comment on Ezekiel “100% whole wheat” sprouted bread, that has to be kept in a refrigerator. Would you completely avoid it too?
A couple of years ago after a bout with severe stomach/digestive problems seemingly out of nowhere, I through trial and error came to the conclusion grains were the problem. I almost completely eliminated corn, pasta, whole wheat, oats and anything with corn starch or high fructose corn syrup. In about two weeks I lost 8 lbs., had no more stomach issues, headaches went away and bloating and discomfort disappeared. Prior to this I had been exercising and eating healthy by most standards but too many grains…and I always felt like crap and couldn’t lose one pound. I’d like to point out that I still use regular sugar and eat potatoes. Just no corn syrup or grain-based foods. And I feel great.
I need an explanation on how all this meat is suppose to be healthy for you? How long was the lifespan of those that lived in the paleolithic era?
I am new to this, haven’t started yet actually, trying to weight all the pros and cons. I get the processed food and the pasteurized dairy and commercial fruits veggies and meat products, but if you buy good grains or grow your own and grind yourself or make your own pasta, how can this be bad for you?
Isn’t “healthy” food in moderation the total key here?
Just seeking advice, not attacking at all.
The lifespan of paleolithic humans is not a clear topic as far as diets go. It’s a number that is affected by many variables: frequent deaths due to injuries (such as during a hunt), infections from injuries, high infant mortality rates, etc.
Personally, I don’t believe grains and legumes are all that evil if well prepared, i.e. soaked, fermented, and so on, to remove their anti nutrients. However people do have a tendency to rely on them as their stable instead of simply a participant in the diet. (Just think of how much of your traditional “balanced diet” is actually grain, and how much is everything else). So often it’s better to cut them out totally at first to break the dependency.
I follow a more general low carb, high fat approach. Meat will not harm you.. we evolved eating it. Ever see a lion or, to take an omnivorous example, a fox get sick from eating meat? If you want a really good and thorough scientific answer to put your doubts at ease, I highly highly recommend reading “Good Calories, Bad Calories” by Gary Taubes.
It sounds like you have not read the book. Please do so, or read the entire blogroll and you will see that grains in any form, soaked or not, are not primal and are bad or you.
But I did, and from doing my own extensive research and reading, and from personal experience, I still respectfully disagree with you.
I tried both the perfect strict primal (with no grains, legumes, or dairy) and tried a more general approach that included a good amount of well prepared legumes and dairy, and the very occasional portions of grains. I honestly found no added benefit from following a strict primal diet over the latter one. But as I said in my previous comment, that’s my personal experience.
Wow, this blog is ridiculously long and only touches on some of the reasons why grain is and should be a staple food. Doesn’t anyobody realize that this website is about making money and selling a book? A few things that should seriously be considered:
– The food crisis of 2007-08 caused prices to soar and although prices went down after 2008, we are now in another food crisis, which could push another 100 million people into poverty (FAO).
– Grains account for a huge portion of cheap and affordable food for the majority of the world’s people, particularly the world’s poor. To argue for abolishing grains is elitist and condemn the majority of human beings to abject hunger and starvation.
– Meat consumption pushes food prices up due to the input costs, and uses exorbitant amounts of fresh water, which is also a finite resource.
– Food is very much culturally appropriate and just because a middle aged white male from the West (who is trying to sell a book) tells you a diet should be one way, we cannot exclude other more (subjectively) culturally appropriate diets.
– Both the USDA and the Canadian Food Guide suggest that grains should be part of our daily intake. As to the ridiculous suggestion that governments do not know anything about science or that we should not listen to “people in authority”, your irresponsible libertarian fantasies do not take into account that (a) these organizations are largely run by scientists and (b) both have vested interests in maintaining a healthy population (particularly Canada with universal health care).
– Somebody made the whimsical comment that “this is nutrition not social science”! Well, here’s news jack ass, food is not apolitical or devoid of political and social context. Of course the nutrition benefits are important, but so is a cost-benefit analysis that takes into account all of human society and how this impacts every one of our daily lives, particularly developing countries.
I can’t wait to hear what the facetious asshole Griff is going to comment (who I suspect is either making money off of the book/website and or is the author himself).
*laugh* Paranoid much, “Money”? As a matter of fact, I am not the author of the book or the website, and I don’t make a penny off of any of it. I’m just someone who freed himself of diabetes, arthritis, migraine and IBS – incidentally losing about 100 pounds along the way – by following the principles Mark sets down in his book and backs up with science. Reading your post with its nonscientific, political assertions, I smell a vegan troll.
While I know you’d like to believe that the whole world can live on grains, the fact of the matter is that human beings did not evolve to eat them, they are not food, and sure, we can survive on them – but they make us sick and they kill us off early. Not optimal.
No, food is not apolitical, but we would also not be in the overpopulated mess we are if we hadn’t started eating and cultivating things that are not food, like grains. Your other claims are likewise both unscientific and incorrect, but if you’re like most vegan trolls, I doubt you’ll be willing to look at the evidence.
My cost-benefit analysis is selfish, but I’ll live longer and I won’t be sick while I’m living longer. I cannot be responsible for the other six and a half to seven billion people on this planet. I have enough to worry about with my own life and family and friends.
Having unrealistic expectations like yours is just as bad as having no principles at all. And in fact, I have principles. They include making sure that I’m healthy so that I can do what is actually possible to help others – like convincing people not to have children and reducing this unsustainable population down to something where we have the ability to all eat this way and live long lives without the diseases of civilization shortening them.
Yes, I am fully aware that I am making the choice for my health over the whole world’s destiny. If that makes me a facetious asshole, so be it. I’ll live longer and be healthier, and frankly that’s my first priority. You can’t help anyone else if you don’t make sure you’ve taken care of yourself first, and after watching my father die of diabetes, gangrene and cancer because he followed the diet you propose, I have no interest in speaking to you further. Kiss off, “Money” (whom I suspect is just Ray in disguise) – your unscientific message isn’t wanted here.
I find it amusing that you think i am both paranoid and a vegan, which I am neither. I actually eat meat, and grains, and believe it or not I am healthy and feel great.
I based my reasoning on facts, which you tend to glance over in your short-sighted myopic one-track mission. Perhaps you should read What We Eat and Why Our Food Choices Matter by Peter Singer. Oh wait, I forgot, you are obsessed with claiming everything has to do with “science”. You can say the word all you want, get a phd and then I’ll listen.
Are you really that ignorant to think that you would even be here, or that the internet would exist without grains, which have led to a little thing called population growth. Yeah, your boy Gock surely lived the high life in his shitty cave with a selection of 4 women to choose from for wives and not the slightest clue what mass communication is.
I find it comical that you think you can help others, YOU! Is the white man going to come and save us with his science and logic and tell all of the backwards grain-eating savages not to have babies? They have babies for a reason dumb-ass. It has more to do with economic reasons of self-sufficiency and building a safety net than a lack of some dimwit sarcastic blogger who thinks he can actually make a positive difference by showing them the guiding light of righteous non-grain miracles.
Your self-admitted selfishness is no surprise though. Neither is your lack of knowledge of world issues. I did not expect more form someone who is either making money off of this misinformation or is so caught up in his own fantasy that he seriously believes the dog shit that comes out of his keyboard.
One last thing.
After reading your comment below claiming long life expectancy, how do you explain the Japanese? They have the longest life expectancy in the world and live their whole lives eating a diet that consists largely of rice and noodles. Empirical evidence you ask for. Well I believe there’s one hell of a large sample of people who completely disprove your “sound science”.
Why are you so angry? No, really?
I won’t argue myself, since I’m not a Doctor or a nutritional scientist. To answer your question about the Japanese, and also about supposed “Good Conscience” of the USDA and the FDA, I will however point you to this fascinating lecture by Robert H. Lustig, MD, UCSF Professor of Pediatrics in the Division of Endocrinology.
http://www.uctv.tv/search-details.aspx?showID=16717
And if you would like a more elaborate and scientific explanation on why fats aren’t bad for you, and why excessive carbs are, and also understand the history behind the push for grains, I highly recommend “Good Calories, Bad Calories” by Gary Taubes.
The rest is up to you. Mark didn’t invent low carb or paleo. He’s just sharing something good. Most people here are following this diet because they’ve seen what the conventional diet has done to them. My mother strictly followed a perfectly very low fat, high fiber, high whole grain diet all her life, and she was the very picture of slim health… until she got colon cancer at 48 and died 2 years later at the age of 50. So I’ll stick to my high fat, low carb, paleo-ish diet, thank you very much, and you can keep enjoying your grains.
Live and let live.
Soak your grains for 8-24 hours to take care of the phytates, the anti-nutrients. Especially in an acid medium, such as with vinegar added.
Pasta and processed grains are doubtful in their nutritional value, but whole grains properly prepared are different.
And another most important thing is to cook the grains with lots of natural salt. Salt helps make hydrochloric acid in the body.
When you all have been on salads and meet and such for a while and gotten over the honeymoon, check out Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon which has a pretty balanced view.
The extreme systems such as veganism, vegetarianism, no-carbs, high carbs, Raw Paleo, Warrior Diet, etc. – they all get old after a while. They are not a lifetime diet. I have tried most of these.
Remember- high salt and grains.
Soak the grains.
Ezekiel brand bread is made of soaked grains.
And Sourdough.
And take kelp, seaweed or mineral supplements, because our souls simply don’t have the minerals in them that we need.
I would love to read the entire comments on here, but there is so much bashing. Cannot we not disagree without implying negativity about someone. Ridiculous.
I won’t be following anymore or making anymore comments because of this. I will do my own research anywhere but here. No, I have yet to purchase the book, I heard about this lifestyle just last week and wished to look into it before spending money.
I will now however see about borrowing the book to see if I still wish to make the purchase.
Let’s act like civilized human beings here and disagree tactfully and maturely.
I eat a lot of whole grains and so does my 7 time Ironman finisher girlfriend. It is all about balance diet. It is not rocket science.
Robert Atkins had VIRAL cardiomyopathy. He did NOT have ischemic heart disease, aka IHD, which is the disease that has been “linked” to high-fat diets. His diagnosis was confirmed by a member of the AHA, who commented that he did NOT believe that Atkins’ diet was related to his VIRAL cardiomyopathy. The doctor who treated his injury also mentioned that for a 71-year-old man, he had arteries and a heart that were in excellent shape.
When admitted to the hospital after his fall, he weighed 175 pounds, which is about average for a man of his height. He gained 60 pounds of fluids in nine days because of the medication he was placed on.
So, in sum, Atkins did NOT “die from his diet”–he died from brain injury and his weight gain was completely due to the medical treatment he was given.
This really riles me and I deleted comments about the stupidity of some people.
I came to this post hoping to find some actual scientific evidence as to why grains might be unhealthy. Instead, I am finding a lot of irresponsible alarmism and fanaticism. This man is not engaged in science, do not be fooled. He is taking the thinnest shreds of suggestive facts and running with them, in a highly rhetorical exercise in manipulation. Do not mistake plausible THEORY for experimentally-derived evidence; the two are worlds apart.
Where are the studies showing that whole grains (not refined sugars) are unhealthy? Answer: they are nowhere because they do not exist.
Ooooooooooooohhhh, anti-nutrients!!!! Fall down and pee in your pants and be afraid! It’s like you’re swallowing a black hole of nutrition when you eat that slice of whole grain bread! You’ll probably have type II diabetes by next week!!
Oh, wait, what’s that? Mark Sisson has no idea what the MAGNITUDE of the effect of those “anti-nutrients” is? It reminds me of people who freak out about aspartame being converted to formaldehyde (scary!). Except that humans have been putting formaldehyde into their bodies since the Garden of Eden (I can hear the wannabe Daniel Dennetts’ fingers furiously typing away in all earnestness and zeal) and the apple. Oh, and all that poison fructose!
Someone mentioned this above, but how is this as food for thought: think of the countries that have the longest life expectancy today (Japan, Hong Kong, Iceland, Switzerland, etc.). Now do you think that the people of those countries eat ANYTHING AT ALL like this so-called “primal” stuff? Oh, but the Asians have evolved to process those grains—well, ok, but you just contradicted your whole Grand Unified Primal Theory in saying that. How about Switzerland? They probably share a similar evolutionary past to many of the affluent, well-educated white people that waste their time with this stuff, right? Do you think they eat “primally” there? Hmmm… I guess if the facts don’t fit the theory, then to hell with the facts!
Speaking of facts, here is one: Mark Sisson is a former athlete who is making a decent income by styling himself as some kind of caveman-guru. He is not a scientist, and he does not act like one. A large part of the credibility of his system comes from the pretty-boy pictures splashed across the top of the site—and his body is pleasing to the eyes, I will give him that. But, guess what? Go look at the contest winners for Bill Phillips’ Body for Life and you will also see some kickin’ bods, some probably even nicer than Caveman Mark’s! But how could they possibly get that way eating 5 or 6 small meals a day and lots of whole grains and legumes? I guess all those contest winners prolly had IBD or Crohn’s. Or it was just their genetics. Or ephedra. Or roids.
Here’s some dietary (and overall life) advice: In medio stat virtus. Sorry, Grokkers, cavemen didn’t come up with that one.
“I came to this post hoping to find some actual scientific evidence as to why grains might be unhealthy. Instead, I am finding a lot of irresponsible alarmism and fanaticism. ”
CaptainEight I presume? Have you done your reading homework yet? If not GO AWAY!
read the comments and you’ll see posts from people who said they cut out processed carbs, HFCS, pop, sweets. people who were over-consuming everything, not just carbs. basically people who banged up their own metabolism by eating the SAD.
but nope, it’s the grains and fruit that made them fat. LOL. of course your levels are going to fall when you stop drinking pop and eating takeout pizza. the trick is to not let your health get in that state to begin with.
i’m definitely not anti-fat, but there are a lot of things i still disagree with on this blog. i’ve eaten beans and legumes as well as small amounts of pasta my entire life. i didn’t die and i don’t have heart disease or digestive problems. i’m a slim but muscular fitness instructor. never had a problem with my weight and i don’t do excessive cardio or weight train for a thousand hours. amazing.
MDA is a good resource for some things, but they fail to make the distinction that gary taubes does: if you’re lean to begin with and don’t have insulin resistance, don’t go OVERBOARD with the carbs. sensible advice for anyone.
if you have diabetes, well, yeah, you’re gong to have to restrict. maybe those extra 5g will bloat you, shoot your blood sugar up and make you put on weight in 5 seconds. but the danger with MDA is that there’s no caveat. they just assume everyone reading is either already primal or fat and eats crap (and american. lol. which i am not). there is a good middle ground for some people that they can stick with throughout their lives. MDA posters sometimes can’t accept that and i’m not sure if it’s out of bitterness or what.
I truely have a little chuckle every time I read a post saying “I came here to find SCIENTIFIC” evidence/proof/scans of molecular imaging proving grains are bead…ad nauseam.
Would that be the same “science” that proclaimed that the earth was flat? or perhaps the same “science” that not so long ago would have had you burnt at the stake if you had said that man would one day reach the moon(sorry I forgot that did’nt really happen did it?)
I will applaud the earnestness of these folks who come here as if looking for the holy grail of health with the same zealousness of a 911 conspiracy theroist combing through the rubble hoping to chance on the remants of some exotic new explosive.
As a 52 year male at 5’9′ 74 kilos who maintains 5% BF year round I have found cutting back on my breads,cereals etc to have benefits in the way I look feel and think.
Meaning I am gluten intolerant and while I know you can get get gluten free breads etc I have chosen to forgo this and eat more veggies(never a bad thing)lots of fish irrespective of grains being bad for you I rather have a plate of fish and veggies than a bowel of pasta.
I look considerably younger than I am and feel aw3esome,and yes I exercise 6 -7 days a week following something very similar to Primal fitness.
Now will I ever completely give up breads,rice(which I like with tuna) probably not but again thats my choice.
And on the “science” that people like to rabbit on about legal drugs kill tens of thousands of people every year funny we don’t hear to much about that.
And while we’re on the topic western “science” is STILL coming round to fact that there is a HUGE connection between our emotions and our health only something that the Chinese have known for decades!
And finally dear people your science that you search so feverishly for is constantly evolving-it is not static,so perhaps just perhaps Mark has a point in what he says and again perhaps he’s ahead of his time.
Warmly
Kim
Nice blog, but I dont agree and I have personal experiences to back up my argument.
I’m in agreement with anyone on the anti white carbs bandwagon. However, for anyone who is against whole grains I’d really like you to explain the okinawans. A group that has the highest numbers of centenarians and the lowest rates of cancer, heart disease, diabetes, Alzheimer’s, than any people in the world. They eat grains.
The theory that grains and dairy are the cause for all the world’s ills according to the paleo movement is just that, a theory. There’s no proof.
Also my big issue is that 99% or better of people can’t live like this the rest of their lives. You telling me you can avoid that piece of cake on your birthday and that beer and dog at the game?
Do I think you have to eat grains and dairy? 100% no. You can easily get the same stuff in fruits and vegetables and if you are lactose intolerant and have celiac disease I can understand as well.
I don’t consider them must have food like fruits and vegetables, but I certainly don’t consider them must avoid foods either if you don’t have an allergy to them.
Great article, and I am doing the “eat right for your blood type” And I’d be curious to know your thoughts on that, but one of the things it suggested I avoid was Gluten, and most grains including wheat, which I had always thought was healthier.
Not eating any grains puts you in a state of ketosis (when you’re body burns muscle and fat instead of sugars for energy). How can that be healthy? I’m currently on a no-grain diet, because of this skin issue I have its gonna clear up this way (it’s got to do with the insulin levels). My cheeks are already much less inflamed after two days of not eating grains/potatoes. I’ve noticed I used to eat so many grains! I still miss them 🙁 I’m worried about the ketosis and losing too much weight. If I lose more than eight pounds because of this diet I’ll be underweight.
Ketosis does not burn muscle (whoever told you that did not know what they were talking about). It burns fat. Ketone bodies are what are burned, and they are produced from stored body fat. Ketosis is a perfectly healthy and natural state for the human body – and in fact it’s how we evolved. Sugars are an emergency fuel source, and nothing more.
i really like grains
mike: So what? Lots of people like heroin, too. Doesn’t mean it’s good for you.
grains are bad…?!!
ok, then how can we explain the fact the ancient cultures like Chinese, Hindus and most asian cultures existed and survived primarily based on rice as the main food ?
or Aztecs in Peru, who used Chia/Salba seeds as their main food ?
It means that grains have much more in them than anti-grainers think, much much more!
I’d add also, that most fruits are BAD, simply because they are…TASTY !
Why?
Because “tasty” in fruits means SWEET=Sugar.
Not only that, almost ALL FRUITS are ACIDIC.
except few like avocado, tomato and few more, which are basically vegetables, only grow like fruits.
Great post! I really enjoy reading this website.
Mainstream medical science is a hoax for the most part and the corporate shills and “skeptics” try to dupe people otherwise. Stay aware from conventional medicine and turn to natural nutritional/herbal treatments. Many of todays most deadly diseases can be traced back to our horrible dietary choices. In fact, the new field of epigenetics is proving that genetic determinism is a myth and that we can control our own health.
I can see that even here and on many other natural health forums that the shills of mainstream medicine persist.
I used to have these arguments on a dog forum with people arguing against me that grains are even good for dogs. That the cheap grain filler processed dog chow is “healthly” for a canine. UGH!!! Then I look around at all these fat middle aged dogs just screaming for some good old meat in their diet – depressing actually
I am 60. My mother lived to be 92 and
only cuz she stopped eating. All her
sisters lived in their 90’s and the one
sister lived to be 102.
True, i too get bad heartburn from
eating grain/starches. Fats, sauce does
not bother me.
I was a vegan when i was in my 20’s
for a yr. I got extremely weak and was
laying in bed all the time. I finally
got some protein pd. and drank it every
day. A week later i was back to normal.
I too was a vegitarian for 18 yrs.
I’ve been off it for 12 yrs. I am now
doing Atkins to lose 20 lbs, and am
just learning about the Palio diet. I
like it. I love the receipes too.
I forgot to add that my 92 yr old mom
ate mostly meat her whole life and not
chicken or turkey cuz she had to cut
their heads off as a teen and never ate
them again. So she ate hamburger, steak,
sausage, pork chops, ham and had meat
every single nite with some veggies and
a little carbs, but she never pigged out
on carbs. Her blood pressure was normal
and she had no diseases. Me, on the other hand had pigged out on carbs for
many yrs, and ate chicken instead of
red meat. I got high blood pressure.
I am not doing Atkins and considering
the paleo diet. My mom was thin. I have
gained almost 20 lbs at age 60. I think
my mom was healthier with the meat and
little carbs.
Oops….I mispelled…I am NOW doing
Atkins i meant to say! Again, the carbs
and the juices always gave me heartburn,
and yet i never get it with sauce or
fried meat!
Whole Grains FTW !! (aka who cares what you think)
I’ve enjoyed reading the back and forth arguments on this post. I think it’s safe to add grain avoidance to politics and religion on the list of ‘things not to discuss’.
My tuppence is:
Are all grains bad? No. All gluten grains are. The remaining ones don’t bring a lot to party nutrition-wise when comapred with veggies or a salad. So going for ‘optimal’ nutrition would mean forgoing grains and their derivatives. I personally don’t believe there are any magic micronutrients out there.
Is all sugar bad? No. Glucose is essential for the body functioning. Fructose is bad depending on the quantity and source. Some fruit won’t kill you.
I’ll add the caveat that the above applies to individuals in full health and not trying to lose weight only.
Todd the “American cancer Society” You mean that organisation that has for years suppressed natural cancer cures,tried to steal patents from people that have had a track record of proven success in CURING yes that’s in capitals, cancer. Is the AMCS the same multi billion dollar corporation funded by big pharma is that the same one you’re speaking of?.
OH Todd ….
Oh Toddy also look up the words Ad Hominum.
And just as an aside I’m 52 5’9″ 75 KG and 5% BF year around and I DO eat grains, BUT since cutting down, I look and feel better.
No need to get insulting when making a point.
Science old chum wonderful thing isn’t it? Jeez its seems just like yesterday when we where told that cigarettes were good for you,breathing asbestos wasn’t going to harm you and the sun revolved around the earth,ooooops!
“paleodiet” is being increasingly mentioned here and there and everywhere, that it’s the healthiest diet.
If we’re talking about the food that our ancestors ate 5000 years ago, then it’s a big big mistake to assume that they lived long lives.
No, they didn’t. Their lifespan was 30 years.
So, I’m still not convinced that paleodiet is TheHealthiest diet. Is paleodiet = grainless diet ?
That’s is the original intention?
What would you say to a 54 year old man who eats grains every day runs marathons, plays squash twice a week and feels as fit as a fiddle?
Grains = bad isn’t an equation this particular human being believes is true.
Maybe it’s a genetic thing?
It seems like if people of European descent eat grains, their body’s are unable to process it and start developing various types of disease.
People of Asian descent like Chinese, Koreans, and Japanese don’t seem to have adverse effects with grain consumption, and they have been consuming masses of it like rice for about 2000+ years. Maybe their genetics are more geared towards grain consumption than Europeans are? If it were a problem, then wouldn’t they have noticed it sooner? They’ve only been starting to develop diseases commonly occurring in modernized Western countries ever since people became more international.
Mark, you reasoned that no living things wants to be consumed by another, including plants, and that they have thus created defense mechanisms. When it comes to animals, however, we’ve used our intelligence to develop weapons, traps and other such tools to get past their defenses. For those of us who are not gluten sensitive, what about using the tools of fermenting the grains or soaking them in an acidic solution in order to break down the phytates and such? According to varied literature I’ve come across, that’s exactly what our ancestors have done for centuries (at least).
So if we can’t have grains, what do people who exercise a lot do for getting increased carbohydrates?
Also, what is a better breakfast to have then instead of grains? I save salad and baked beans for lunch and I’m also trying to be a vegetarian.
Also, the grains keep you full for longer – won’t I end up crashing within an hour if I have salad for breakfast?
Thanks for a great article!
”
So if we can’t have grains, what do people who exercise a lot do for getting increased carbohydrates?
Also, what is a better breakfast to have then instead of grains? I save salad and baked beans for lunch and I’m also trying to be a vegetarian.
Also, the grains keep you full for longer – won’t I end up crashing within an hour if I have salad for breakfast”
Oh my Massimo, you are seriously misinformed, to put it gently. Carbohydrates spike your insulin and make you hungry a couple of hours later. Fats and proteins keep you satiated and nourished and are not inflammatory like grains. You need to read The Primal Blueprint or you will be swimming against the tide in this forum.
Thanks for the advice! I honestly wasn’t suggesting that I was right. I actually think you guys are right, I’m just wondering what to eat instead? And also, oats aren’t the ‘worst’ thing in the world to eat really?
Here is a good thread on Eat This Not That:
https://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/thread24480.html
For carb refeeds related to workouts, eat tubers like yams, sweet potatoes, plantain for better non-inflammatory carbs, occasional potatoes and white rice in moderation are OK too.
Thank you so much for this!! I started the paleo “diet” in January and it was an amazing change, but recently fell of track on my honeymoon eating grains. I needed this to kickstart myself back into eating and feeling great!!
Is all this knowledge of fairly recent origin, meaning just a few decades old? I can’t imagine the world being so dependent on grains if the disadvantages are so well-known. Even the western world which thrives on meat has wheat as a secondary staple (bread). Or is there no alternative to grain for reasons of convenience (ease of storage and transport)? Can veggies/fruits ever replace grains the world over?
I am not a doctor but I definitely there is some validity to the fact that we don’t need grains, and they might actually have an adverse affect on some (if not most) of our bodies. I always feel bloated, tired and heavy after eating grains. I think we can get all the nutrients we need from other sources!
I have two main issues with your article. Firstly, you fail to deal sufficiently with the issue – your rebuttal seems to consist of an irrational “yuk” and nothing more. Fibre is very important in the maintencance of adequate gut motility and deficiencies are associated with a range of GI diseases. Secondly, your statement that phytates “render null and void” the argument that grains provide important minerals goes well beyond the evidence provided in your citation. Just because they reduce absorption doesn’t mean they prevent the absorption of all the minerals in the grain.
What about the claim that “we need long-term energy”? Do we really need it? If so, where else can we get it?
Hey, I have a question regarding body building. I myself count carbs and I require over 3500 per day at the moment. The bulk of the calories comes from grains (I eat over 500 g per day). Should I just replace the grains with meat/ vegetable source? I’m already eating over 700 g of meat a day. Protein is toxic in large amounts is it not? I’m really stumped as to what I can replace grains with.
We veterinarians are often asked about diet, and our answers need to be accurate because the consequences of wrong answers will not only harm our patients but our reputations as well. Diet is the foundation of good veterinary. If a farmer asks me how to fatten up his horse, cow, pig, chicken, sheep, dog, or cat I will answer, “Feed him grain.” It is generally known that this works. Why does my physician tell me to eat 5-10 servings of grain a day???
I’m sorry but this article is complete rubbish. Several (not all) of your studies are weak at best. Your fiber argument is more personal preference than fact. In addition, the paleolithic diet and it’s claims are highly contested by the scientific community — especially anthropologists. Finally, you are trying to sell books– which throws a level of bias into the mix.
THIS MAKES SO MUCH SENSE. WE ARE HUNTER AND GATHERERS FOR MILLIONS OF YEARS, I JUST CAN’T SEE EARLY HUMANS REMOVING TOUGH HUSK AND BOILING A GRAIN TO MAKE IT EDIBLE. AS A FUTURE RN AND A CURRENT NATURAL FOODS CHEF WHO IS ALLERGIC SEVERELY TO GLUTEN I AM GOING TO DEFINITELY RESEARCH THIS IDEA. THANKS FOR SHARING THIS ENLIGHTENING IDEA.
Pretty ridiculous if you ask me! There is no doctor, research, results, etc than can argue with a starch based, 100 percent plant based diet. There is not a stitch of evidence that proves any other diet will reverse / prevent heart disease and lower your risk of cancer.
No one can argue that. It’s fact, backed up by clinical evidence and peer reviewed results.
Ciao
Mark do you honestly believe that a slice of pizza, a bowl of cereal, or the bun covering a hamburger or hot dog will kill you? There’s been many studies showing that whole or wheat grains, or brown rice are actually quite good for you.
My brother is a nutrition specialist, as was my grandfather. Switching to leaner meat, and eating a balanced, proportioned diet with a bit of everything is the key to health and happiness.
As far as I understood, animals can eat meat/bone because their digestive juices are much much stronger than we homo sapiens. Their digestive tract is 7 times shorter, hence putrifaction does not occur before elimination. Their teeth and claws are designed for ripping and tearing at flesh. They can run faster and can catch their prey. We on the other hand have teeth more for grinding food, our legs and hands are designed for foraging and picking food on the ground. I am new to the grain theory being unhealthy for you, but do have times when, (for no apparent reason to me), I suffer bouts of bloat and digestive distress. Perhaps this can be related to grains. I have read lately that studies on the blood of people who eat meat is entirely different to those that don’t. The blood from the vegetarian was the clear winner.
I am a vegan through choice because I have a conscience and love for every living animal. There is absolutely nothing related to the slaughter of animals, and the milk and dairy industry that does not involve unbelievable pain and suffering for all animals. Just look into it sometime and a lot of you would be so shocked at what goes on that it might cause you to stop eating any animal products ever again:)
Your thoughts on Quinoa, Peruvian staple for several thousand years? It’s the only grain that contains 7 (I think) of the essential amino acids found in protein.
Thanks
How can i say..this information is new for me..thanks for your info.. can i wrote this to my web?
No comas esto, no comas el otro, bahhhhh! Yo como pan y que!!!
Arrepientanse hippies, todo lo que comen les hace da~o porque viven en una vida llena de pecado y por eso tienen miedo de comer lo que Dios creo para nuestro bien….ustedes le dicen malo a lo que Dios dice bueno. Estan enfermos por pecadores NO por comer gluten o granos. Arrepientanse!
Well, I’ve reached the limit of this type of stuff and it’s time to just go back to common sense. There are those who tell you to NEVER eat red meat. You aren’t supposed to eat too much (if any) fish because of mercury. Other’s will tell you that eggs and dairy products including cheese are the path to death. And don’t even think of eating legume. Nut’s have too much fat. Don’t eat fried food. Now we are warned that we should never eat grains! And oh! Don’t eat too much fruit because it has lots of sugar! And even though we have been told that water soluble fiber is good for use, now we are told that it tears our guts up. Nonsense!
What can we eat! Should we just breathe air and eat nothing? Oh wait! The air is bad for use too.
I do understand the argument that grain is not something that primitive man would have eaten and we did not evolve to eat grains but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are bad for you.
You can talk to ten experts and get ten completely different recommendations about what we should and shouldn’t eat. Just do a search for “benefits of eating grains,” etc., and you will find all kinds of experts singing the praises and listing the benefits of eating grains.
My oldest daughter (42), the director of the cardio unit and the drug and alcohol rehab unit of a major hospital in Chicago has been on all these diets because she has a weight problem and she has even stopped eating grains. She has seen no difference at all. Now she is on a truly radical diet where she can’t eat hardly anything except juices and she has gained weight and now has other health issues.
I’m 62 and let myself get moderately over weight. I took a different path. I just cut down the volume of food I ate, virtually eliminated junk food (chips, etc.), cut down on fried food and meat and I eat a lot more fresh vegetables and fruits. My weight is going down steadily and I feel better. I’m about halfway to my ideal weight. And I eat grains. In fact, I eat oatmeal on most mornings. Some experts will tell you that it is good for you and helps reduce HDL cholesterol but, according to this article, I shouldn’t be eating that either. C’mon!
When I got to the claim in this article that fiber tears your intestinal walls up, the nonsense bell went off and the whole article lost credibility. From the way he described it, you would think eating fiber is the equivalent of eating crushed glass. Does anyone actually believe that the fiber retains rough, scratchy texture by the time it reaches your intestines? Geez! It passes through your stomach and is broken down in acid.
I think this problem of having so much conflicting information from so many “experts” is simply because they want to come up with something different to push or sell. After all, how can you sell something that everyone already knows? So the “expert” have to come up with something to distinguish themselves from all the other “experts.” Facts are ignored.
There is so much contradictory information out there that anyone trying to truly learn how to eat healthy can go nuts in the pursuit of that info.
Folks, I truly believe the real answer is simply moderation and greatly reducing your intake of those things that common sense tells you is bad for you. Most of us should probably cut back on sugar, for example. Most of us should probably increase our consumption of vegetables and fruits too. That’s what I’m doing and it’s working. Common sense.
But we have to enjoy life too. How can you enjoy your life if you can’t eat meat, grains, fruits, etc. That’s not how I’m going to live. The people I know who stick to radical diets I(like not eating grains, etc.) are some of the most unhappy people I have known and I have never seen any sign that they are healthier either. In fact, some of the most sickly and unhealthy people I have ever known are vegetarians and vegans. Folks, we are meat eaters! We have meat-eating teeth. That should tell you that you evolved to eat meat. Sure! Many of us probably eat too much meat, especially fatty meat, but cutting it completely out is not going to make you healthier.
It does seem that the one thing that everyone agrees on is that we should eat more fresh vegetables. That makes sense to me. But then we are told that we must only eat “organic” vegetables. That term is so misused. All vegetables and, in fact, everything we eat with the exception of salt (another thing we are warned to avoid!) s organic. Anything that was once alive is, by definition, organic. What the people who tell you to only eat organic products really mean to say is “organically grown,” that is, natural feed with no chemicals were fed to that animals we eat and chemical fertilizers and pesticides were not used with the crops that we eat. There is probably some truth to all of this but, from the best information I have read, it really doesn’t make that much difference. I have been an organic gardener for 35 years and but my source of manure has dried up in recent years so I use moderate amounts of chemical fertilizers and see no difference at all. However, my soil structure is not as good now and good soil structure does make for healthier plants but that’s another story. But the point is that I have seen reliable studies that show that there is virtually no difference in vegetables and fruit grown organically or with chemical fertilizers. I think many people are obsessing about this “organic” thing to the point of insanity.
Now, do an internet search for something like “why eating grains is good for you” and you will find other experts that completely contradict this article.
Think for yourself. Use common sense and moderation and don’t take everything you read from “experts” too seriously. And, most importantly, enjoy yourself.
Excellent post. All of these nutrition theories are contradicting and confusing. Every food has been called bad by some group, except maybe vegetables. Who’s to say what’s right? I’m still in progress for losing weight, but I’m thinking that eating less processed food and less food overall should be sensible.
OMG I CAN’T READ THESE COMMENTS ANYMORE. Why so much arrogance and arguing? Let’s just share information to help each other become healthier! I’m going to a different website to read information from people that care about helping others, not just about proving they are smarter than the next person.
I agree.
most people have no problem digesting grains(hell the ukrainians eat a large grain diet & its common to see people in their 80s or 90s) & recieving their benefits.If original man came across ice cream on trees or bread in the forest,you sure as hell bet they would of eaten it,its called survival.The human body can digest & break down to use as fuel & energy almost anything let alone grains with its nutrients.To say man needs millions of years to properly digest a food is rubbish.Didn^t God feed his starving people manna(bread) in the wilderness? Didn^t God in Ezekiel tell Noah to bring with him foods like grains to store.How about Christ multiplying the fish & Loaves(bread) for the people to feed ?Grains ,dairy,meat ,fruits & vegetables,alcohol in moderation & yes the occasional treat(ice cream pies) a balanced diet can lead to health & happiness in conjunction to other lifestyle changes
This blog does deserve some credit for tackling a legit question, but it’s still just a layman speculating selectively. It’s true that evolutionarily there’s no mandate for us to be eating grains. In a perfect world, we’d all be healthiest eating only wild game and fish and seafood, supplemented with some berries and other fruits as well as some wild greens, legumes and roots –– all from a pristine environment. But, sadly, it’s not really world we live in. In our lives, whole-grains-based foods –– which are complex foods –– do provide not only vitamins and roughage but some of the complex carbohydrates and, yes, protein that we might be getting from other sources. Taking these grain foods out of our diet makes us very dependant on meats (with all the issues that surround the quality of most meat available to us) and/or soy or other legumes (which are superb, but which most people have some upper limits in dealing with). So, it takes a lot of work and expense to dodge grain-based products.
Still, it might be worth it for some. Certainly couldn’t hurt to try it as an experiment for a month or two. You just need to make sure you get good balance in what you’re putting in its place, which will be challenging.
I am so confused. I am 42 and trying to lose weight – for all the reasons it is good for one to do so.
I have PCOS and my weight has gone up and down since puberty.
I need to get off sugar and high carbs.
Recently – my blood sugar was 101 and cholesterol was 248.
I am 5 ‘5’ and was 213 pounds. (I am now 206).
I am eating organic eggs, big ass salads, Wild Alaskan salmon, organic dairy (not a lot of dairy), avocados, nuts, olive oil, veggies, fruits, peanut butter, some whole grains, beans and the like.
All this as organic and or as natural as possible.
I have been doing a lot of research as well.
I have tried many eating styles in my life.
I do a lot of research each time – but the healthy community is so contradictory I don’t what is up or down anymore.
Until recently I was sure whole grains were essential to a healthy diet.
What do people think about soy? Tofu?
Soybeans?
I feel like everything is getting eliminated down to the wire and what is left to eat?
For me I have the risk of diabetes and heart disease big time. I want to lose weight and get healthy and avoid my genetic predisposition.
I have been eating well for over 3 wks now and definitely feel a lot better. I am slowly acquiescing to my new way of eating.
I am willing to try cutting out grains as I never had a penchant for them anyway.
My big addiction is sugar.
I have cut way back on that as well. What do you think of Stevia?
I have done a lot of research on Stevia as well and it seems like it’s a good thing when I weigh the debate over it.
I suffer from PCOS and most of its symptoms.
Distended belly, hirsutism, low metabolism, etc.
Can a healthy low carb high protein diet help?
I believe in balance and not being so extreme.
I am also taking Salmon oil pills from a company called “Vital Choice”.
I also ordered canned salmon from them.
They have rave reviews from health experts and consumers.
I just get confused sometimes-
Vegan, Vegetarian, Pescoterian,(sp?) , low carb, high complex carb, gluten free, dairy free, sugar free, organic etc. Supplements or no supplements…
It makes my head spin.
Right now it seems like healthy fat low mercury fish such as salmon, vegetables, fruits, nuts, healthy oils, some grains? some dairy? and beans seems like the way to go.
I am confused about beans- I thought they were supposed to be a diet staple. Garbanzo beans?
I thought they were a real winner! And to think of giving up dairy is frightening me a little. I love it and am now doing my best to go all organic with the dairy.
I don’t want to not ever have pizza and ice cream and the like ever again. Just not on a daily basis.
But specialty indulgences I think are ‘good for you’ in moderation/special occasions.
Any thoughts?
Thanks!
I’m puzzled that grains are wholehearted condemned, without the consideration of how early agrarian man (and up until the last 70 -80 years) prepared these grains. Could it be that modern processes, ultrafine milling and hurry-up preparation is part of the problem. Indigenous man always soaked (like sourdough) their grains – which neutralizes phytic acids, enzyme inhibitors, gluten, etc. Early agrarian man was not stupid and did not continue to eat home grown foods if it brought on ill health. Genuine sourdough breads and fermented/soaked grains are a completely different creature that raw grains or commercially prepared grains and breads.
Very interesting stuff Kyle. Thank You for the information. I am trying Paleo as closely as I can. I can do w/o grains so it’s neither here nor there for me. Beans and dairy are another matter. What do you think of tempeh? They are fermented soybeans.
I just find it hard to believe that ancient man didn’t discover beans and grains.
I’m gluten intolerant and agree.
So, I fell off the wagon 4 days ago when I went into a health food store with a bakery and a baker who makes portugese and other european freshly bakes goods…GAH !
I bought a warm loaf of multi-grain bread, with a ton of raw sunflower seeds in it. My excuse was that sunflower seeds are possibly paleo and it went down hill from there LOL.
Gotta get back on the primal wagon before the ticking bomb goes off (digestion).
Wait a minute I am a culinary student and i know a few things about grains and they are healthy for you. now they can become unhealthy if you eat too much of them. it is like anything else portion control. take this up with those who know grains and cook with them and see what the response would be.
I’ve been looking into the no-grain thing since a colleague who follows the paleo diet talked about it. I’m in the process of phasing out the evil grains now. For the record I’m not paleo but organic veggie though still find this article very relevant and helpful. Thanks for posting
🙂
What about all those Chinese, Japanese, Koreans, and Indians eating rice since they established themselves? They only had obesity and diabetes since they became more international.
Is there any explanation for this?
By the way, I read the article regarding how “Scientists Learn More About How Roughage Keeps You ‘Regular'”.
According to that article, foods containing lots of fibre “make their way down the gastrointestinal tract, they run into cells, tearing them and freeing lubricating mucus within”
Mr. Sisson says that this rupturing seems dangerous and unhealthy for the cells of the gastrointestinal tract.
I have a question. Is rupturing of the cells necessarily unhealthy (aside from male circumcision which literally ruptures thousands of cells permanently). Because in order for humans to build muscle, we need to exert the muscle, and cause micro-tears on the muscle cells. Then as the muscle cells “heal” (with correct amino acids), it gets stronger.
What I’m saying is that is the rupturing of the gastrointestinal cells from fiber to help us pass stool easier really that bad because the rupturing of the muscle cells during body-building is what makes us stronger?
Grains and omega6 oil will destroy the good bacteria in your gut. Since these bacteria provide the vitamin k2 that you need for healthy bones, loosing them leads to osteoporosis. Did I mention auto immune issues? Americans (I’m Dutch) suffer an all time high rate of auto-immune diseases and bowel cancer. And the rate has gone up ever since some braindead fool convinced everybody the SAD is healthy. So enjoy your grains; it’s your health.
maybe humans’ dietary requirements actually have changed since paleo times. maybe we have always been in a constant state of evolutionary flux ever since the only thing that existed on earth was single celled organisms in nutrient rich pools. it’s not like we humans all just popped up one day and ate lots of meat and berries and for some divine reason that will be the diet that we require until the end of our stay on this planet. diet is based on what mother nature has made available to us at that given time in history. the diet of the future is as ever changing as the diet of today, which is as ever changing as the diet of yesterday and so on. meat, grain, whatever. anyway that’s my logic for today lol (which might change tomorrow)
I am really amazed so many people are falling for this crap. Grains are essential to the modern diet and are only hazardous to people who are unable to digest it, which is why there are alternatives for them. Why should the rest of us listen to some random guy with a blog and an agenda. Come on people, wise up, maybe you should take a nutrition class and decide for yourself. I recommend everyone look at the reasons why grains are good for you and those reasons will FAR outweigh the ones stated above.
Good day. I eat a high carb diet of mostly rice, fruits and vegetables. I’m not overweight. Yes grains probably have phytates, lectins etc but can we really conclude that the bulk of our calories should come from meat/fish/eggs instead? Grains aren’t perfect and they might have certain bad things about them that meat doesn’t but that doesn’t necessarily make meat a better option. Would you fuel your your unleaded petrol car with diesel if it was that or bad quality petrol? This is how I see it.
It’s said here that our cells prefer fat. I haven’t seen enough reason to believe this but even if it were true, meat wouldn’t be the ideal source as it has tough fibres and proteins that your body needs to break down which uses a lot of energy. Fruit however is already broken down. Within minutes of eating it everything gets to where it needs to be (iron, b12, amino acids, EFAs, it’s all in there). Providing nothing’s causing insulin resistance such as fat, there’s little reasons for sugar to linger in the blood. I’ve experienced many diets and I believe fruit is a good dietary staple.
Look at Asian countries such as Japan and China and see how traditionally they have high levels or grain in their diet yet little disease, even if you want to argue that their diets have reasonable amounts of animal fats also. What does it matter if they calorie restrict or not? It’s irrevelant. Believe and do what you wish but I’d just like to suggest that people look into both sides more deeply and try them before coming to conclusions. I’ve researched both sides heavily and am happy with my choices yet my mind still welcomes new arugments.
I’m sorry, but early man ate grains. Maybe not the same ones, but they ate grains.
here is a quote from the 100 year old man named fauja singh who recently completed the toronto marathon about his strict diet:
“I never thought of running a Marathon then. But slowly it grew”. What surprises many is that he supports his eight stone and six feet tall body frame with a very simple vegetarian diet. “I am very careful about different foods. My diet is simple phulka (chappati), dal (lentils), green vegetables, yoghurt and milk. I do not touch parathas, pakoras, rice or any other fried food. I take lots of water and tea with ginger.”
so….i will now await others to provide a list of people who are COMPLETING MARATHONS AT 100 YEARS OF AGE WHO DO NOT TOUCH GRAINS…..come on lets see ’em (he he he)
You guys are so weird.
I admittedly didn’t read the whole blog, but I still think he’s a bit of an idiot. Unless this whole page is just a joke, in which case my bad. The first paragraph lost any shred reliability that this guy has. The cells “rupture”. Oh no! Rupture is a bad word. The cells are designed to rupture you dumb ass. And release the lubricant for nutrients to be able to cross into our bodies and keep moving. That’s like saying skin growth is bad, because the cells die to form a protective layer. Anyways, it is an interesting thought though that grains are all great for you. I’ve already known that about simple carbs and potatoes and stuff. But then again where else do we get energy? It sounds like a lot of hard work and will put our diets way out of balance if we have to get all our calories from meat dairy and salad. 😛
“They are a distinctly Neolithic food that the human animal has yet to adapt to consuming.” tell me this. how are humans going to adapt to eating wheat if people do not eat it? Grain food will be more important than ever when the veggie and animal farming fails.
Im just a little confused about the rice idea….native americans have eaten rice for centuries, as have the chinese and japanese, who have among the longest life expectancies on earth. While I do agree that there are a lot of negatives with grains, I don’t feel that they are all created equally. Oatmeal has been shown to have numerous health benefits, while other things endorsed on this site, such as red meat, has been shown to contain carcinogens if cooked to a certain temperature. As I scientist, I am skeptical and quite frankly, I think grains in moderation are perfectly fine.
no need for grains?
what a load of crap!!
seriously!
just to let you know , i am from a country
80% of our daily food is grains
15% is vegetables and fruits
5% milk and eggs
we eat meat 2-3 times a week (small amount)
our bodies are so strong and tough
+ our sexual life is beyond amazing!
we don’t know Viagra lol
now after i moved to canada , i see people here are so WEAK , seriously , you look bigger but you have no real strength
you got all kind of diseases from caner to diabetes !
to the people who believed this article
don’t let others fool you !
please read about the benefits of lentils and whole wheat , other grains before start attacking little things
every food has it’s good and bad , just eat the right amount
I would just like more in the way of scientific evidence for your rant. I have no doubt you believe what you say… but belief doesn’t convince people. You basically call me an idiot for eating grains and base it mostly on personal opinion… you need more links to reference your points, that way your rant can be calm and productive… not resorting to negativity to try to validate your point insulting.
I will right away grab your rss as I can not find your e-mail subscription link or e-newsletter service. Do you have any? Please let me know so that I could subscribe. Thanks.
grains = famine food.
Why are so many people stating so much speculation as fact. Things like, “cavemen ate this….” or statements like “Eliminating grains from my diet made me healthy…”
really? How do we know exactly what cavemen ate? Did they keep a journal of all their meals on the walls of every cave around the world? No. Is it possible that those claiming they are healthy now perhaps lost weight and that is why you are healthy? I have read many scientific studies that show high occurances of cancer and heart disease with the consumption of dairy and animal protein (meat). Has anyone seen “Forks over Knives”? I decided to do some research after watching it because I was skeptical. Well long story short… I’m convinced that dairy and high consumption of meat leads to heart disease and maybe some cancers as well. Why are we suppossed to eat like a caveman, especially when nobody really knows every last thing they ate. So in conclusion I’ve decided to go vegan for a month and see how I feel. I try to keep an open mind to things. I will keep you updated on my new vegan progress. I am on day 3 of no animal products and the biggest difference I notice is I don’t feel lethargic like I used to. If you want to know more look up “Forks over Knives” very interesting to say the least.
You are ignorant about the proper cooking methods needed to obtain the nutrition from legumes and grains. I hope you like colon cancer cause that is what your future may look like on a high animal protein diet.
People, really, when you say that steak causes cholesterol, what about people who never eat it yet have high bad cholesterol? The cause is unknown. Eat steaks if you enjoy them. Listen to your body. For example I not a steak fan, I eat meat once a week and not always read meat, it is chicken or pork.
and herein lies the rub. if everyone on the planet who is eating the typical ‘meat n potatoes’ at every meal were to get some common sense and cut the meat down to once a week like you stated, we’d be 50% of the way towards a better planet. saving the fact that the other 50% percent would require the same type of reduction of heavily processed ‘junk’ foods. if the modernized countries began to eat like this, the vegetarians and vegans wouldn’t even feel the need to preach their philosophy anymore either. win win. high bad cholesterol can be caused both by over consuming not only fatty meats, but processed foods, nuts, sugars, oils etc. meat is part of the list, especially high amounts of red meat, but you are right it is not the only culprit
Lectins are bad?? All foods have lectins in them, why are grain lectins bad? Hmmm, cows eat grain?, but meat good?? Kind of seems like you are picking and choosing? I totally agree we don’t need to eat grains or the amount we do, but let’s at least be consistent, you can’t have it both ways.
Cows are not supposed to eat grains, and if you read Mark’s book or read any halfway decent book on nutrition, you’ll see that they DON’T recommend eating grain fed beef. You should be eating grass fed beef and pastured chickens.
Umm the reality is, in my opinion, that most people on these diets eat meat from the local store and not grass fed beef. Just sayin’
Yeah, forget grains. They only led to the DAWNING OF CIVILIZATION.
Reason to eat grains: they taste nice, and we don’t just eat for nutrition. There’s no reason to eat chocolate or drink alcohol either, but they’re nice too. Eating and drinking for pleasure as well as for pure nutritional benefit makes eating a lifestyle rather than a life sentence. Agree that most people eat too many grains, but going to the extreme of not allowing them at all can very easily lead to obsession with food which, let’s face it, we’re getting close to as a society.
Why does everyone keep referring to Taubes GCBC as gospel. Do a little research people, his science in more than one instance has been proven wrong. Does he have some good points? Yes. It’s amazing how people get so full of themselves that ‘THEIR’ diet or lifestyle is right and everyone else is wrong. It’s also interesting to note that most people from what I have read on different Paleo forums cheat. The 80/20 rule. Seems to me though of us that eat ‘normal healthy’ diets with limited grains and limited meats with lots of fruit and veggies, we’re all pretty much in the same place.
Just my opinion.
People can decide whatever they want to eat. I myself am a vegan- no animal products (meat, eggs, dairy, honey)- and I am trying to wean myself off of flours, sugar, and refined oils. Basically, I want to eat fruits and vegetables the rest of my life. I’m not arguing that anyone should be like me, and I don’t want anyone else to try and persuade me to be like them.
In general, our society eats too MUCH of EVERYTHING. Most cancers, health problems are simply caused by that alone. If a person starts eating a healthy amount of calories, however, there are still health problems related to eating certain things. There are certain foods which I would consider poisons to the body.
– Refined sugars and breads/flours (all forms) – send blood sugar into a hyper- and hypo-glycemic states, provide fuel for cancer cells.
– Meat with high saturated fat (beef, veal, pork, ham, chicken-yes it is just as high as beef- ) – high LDL sat. fat which is the only fat known to clog arteries (therefore strokes, heart-attacks, biological erectile dysfunction – all blood related disorders).
– Refined oils – too much fat. Unless you’re stocking up for winter- which even Minnesotans try to avoid- it’s better to get fat from nuts and seeds (not butters).
– Dairy – why would I drink from a cow’s teet? Crossing species, and age groups, is really weird.
– Eggs – again, I really don’t enjoy the idea of eating the baby juice of a different species.. kinda gross.
I live in a 3rd world country, India, so it’s amusing to see all the concern about the harm that grains may do. Looks as tho’ a statiscally insignificant part of the US population (pl correct me if I’m wrong) has suffered reactions to gluten, and other similar consequences. But please, folks, look at the larger picture of the world.
Sure we’ve been on grains and agri-products only for the last 10000 yrs out of a million or two on the planet, but in this period a large part of the planet’s population has survived and thrived reasonably well on a grain-centric diet. Can we claim that as a species we are unsuited to digestion of grains and legumes? Not if you ask the zillions below the poverty line world-wide, to whom grains are survival and meat a luxury.
Agreed that animal protein may be better, but is it a realistic proposition for the world’s population as it is today. It’s well-known that a veg diet takes less of the planet’s resources than breeding animals for food. And with today’s emphasis on grass-fed beef et al it’s even more unrealistic to expect the bulk of homo sapiens to switch to healthy animal protein. A miniscule proportion may be able to do it at gradually increasing cost (the US probably still has a lot of wide open spaces), but is this what we should be propagating? Food for thought?
I agree with you mark I always feel unsatisfied after a grain loaded meal…
Nothing beats a good steak with veggies.
Grains give you amazing sleep, and are the most powerful anti-stress nutrient
That’s why mark complains all the time he he hasn’t figured out how to control stress
They won’t make you fat if you exercise and eat them post workout
great stop eating grains….and the world would starve in a week…by the way eating whole grains in moderation will help keep a healthy gut and promote an active and alert lifestyle…better than living on salad and pesticide covered root vegetables all day……who wants to live to 100 and shit and piss yourself in a corner of a nursing home being bathed by minimum wage paid pissed off staff..
listen to you all babble. let ppl eat what they want and worry about yourself. your not going to change the average americans mind on nutrition. the paleo lifestyle needs to be left alone to “evolve” just like everything else in this world.
“On the Internet, inside information is currency, and there will always be counterfeiters among us”
Ha! Very first “Related Posts” is “Now You Can Drink Your Grains” We can’t win!
Ha! Very first “Related Posts” is “Now You Can Drink Your Grains.” We can’t win.
There are many things Science can’t explain. All doctors say that it is necessary to wear sunscreen to block UV rays. We know how wrong that is and we need sun’s rays for vitamin D. Similarly, dissecting foods into its basic nutrients and arguing that grains are unhealthy or we don’t need grains isn’t the right approach. We need all kinds of wholesome plant based foods to achieve the right nutrition and optimum health. I always take Scientific result with a pinch of salt.
Lots of good information on Mark’s blog…
…and a lot of people who sound like their chosen lifestyle is making them tense, judgmental, hostile, mean, and socially primitive/narcissistic.
Is this an effect of the paleo diet?
I call BS
Actually, eating grains without proper preparation is bad. I’ve been researching this a lot lately and I found that soaking the grains breaks down phytic acid and helps the nutrients and minerals to absorb in our body; whereas the phytic acid was killing them. I’ve been baking my own bread for years, but began soaking the grains recently. Now my bread makes me feel fuller and is so tasty. Since I’ve been soaking my grains I feel better, don’t need as much coffee and I don’t feel the need to eat as much. Grains unsoaked are like poison. So either find a company that soaks their grains prior to baking or invest your time in making your own bread. It’s worth it!
Frick. My friend was right
Credentials please? Are you a nutrition MD? PHD? Really? The world is not so black and white. I hear people screaming, All carbs, no carbs, no fats, all fats, it is ridiculous! Have you even considered grains (without gluten) like buckwheat (which has no wheat or gluten), amaranth, and quinoa, with extremely different nutritional profiles. There are a reason people have been using these grains since the beginning of time. No carb is created equal. Just like fats, unlike the name fat implies we need healthy fats for brain function, our brains are in fact 80% fat. Want to know why people are obese and sick? Because of 1. processed foods and the addictions they cause, 2. pesticides from non organic products 3. not enough macronutrients from veggies and fruit.. not because of grains.
People are obese and sick because of their diets, lack of exercise and stress reduction. Diets for many people include handy processed or fast food with many addictive additives added and low nutritional density. Even foods grown today are deficient in minerals unless the farmer replaces them into the soil, add pesticides and herbicides that are now incorporated into the food itself instead of just on the plant. Corn for instance has no similarity nutritionally to corn grown 50 years ago because of hybridization and being genitically modified. We farm and grow our own organic gardens, freeze and can our produce and give it away. It is canned in glass jars opposed to the BPA lined cans used by mfg. I grow many heirloom vegetables–the taste is phenomenol. Farmer grows corn, soy beans and wheat. Wheat is another product that is not at all similar to what it was 50 yrs ago and soy in my opinion should not be eaten unless it is in fermented form due to its estrogenic promoting effects. Another huge area to research is fats! Canola oil made from rapeseed was originally made as a lubricant for machinery, it is also one of the most touted “good” oils–I never use it! My fats are organic butter, limited use, virgin cold pressed olive oil, pure organic cocoanut oil for higher heat use, also walnut or hemp oil for salad dressings. Coconut oil is high in saturated fats which many MD’s think is “bad”; however
it is composed of medium chain fatty acids needed by every cell in our body and for energy. Bruce Fife’s book Coconut Cures in packed with info on the many uses for this oil which also has a long shelf life. Excellent for skin care all over the body, enhances the immune system and dozens of other benefits. I have been using it almost exclusively (sometimes mixed with honey) as a spread on whole grain toast eaten only occasionally and when I need an energy boost 1 tablespoonful just to eat. Farmer is 80, I am 75, no pharm meds, wt normal, travel worldwide and eat to survive–feed our bodies. And as said before, we are not all alike, thank goodness so part of our life journey is to learn what enhances it and what to leave behind.
HELP!!! I’ve given up grains an feel pretty darn good, but I cant lose any weight. I cant figure out what I am doing wrong!
I’m glad this article referenced so many scientific studies otherwise I might of assumed the author was just making it up from his limited laymans knowledge…oh wait
What a load of rubbish while grains are definitely not the most micronutrient rich food there is no evidence to suggest that Grain based foods eaten in moderation are detrimental to human health in fact the opposite is true especially for those performing exercise.
The argument that humans havent been eating grains through most of their recent history suffers from the fallacy that throughout most of our recent history we have been eating leaves and fruit and living in trees. We had much shorter life expectancies than today and drunk alcohol long before the invention of agriculture and just try telling me that’s healthy.
What there is evidence for is that giving up meat is actually a far healthier choice than giving up grains
If anyone wants to know my sources or studies referenced please email me, if anyone wants to know the reputable sources referenced in this article I can list them now if you like:…
Thank you for posting this. I first learned about gluten and what it was about three years ago. My sister was having some really unpleasant IBS-like symptoms, and after visiting a doctor, he suggested she abstain from gluten and see if it helped. It did help her, so I started looking up info for myself. I am not gluten intolerant or anything like that, but since then, I have more or less abstained from gluten and I find that it not only has helped me loose weight, but I generally just feel an overall sense of well being.
Many people still do know about gluten, what it is, what foods you find it in, and what it does to your body, so I think it is great that more and more people are trying to get the word out.
There is no gluten in rye… to make rye bread rye flour is mixed with other grains to develop gluten. Get your facts straight; also it seems you are reading 1 or 2 informative research projects and drawing you own askew and drastically different conclusion. For every article out there agreeing with your argument there are an insane amount of research articles that could give information to disagree with you. It is important to combine all the research and weigh the pros and cons and you have not done this. I feel terrible knowing there are people taking your opinion (yes opinion) as fact instead of doing their own research and making up their own minds based on pros and cons.
if grains are bad, why didn’t we all die by the time of the egyptians?
Many of us did and others had shorter lives. The non agriculturalist peoples had stronger bones and taller bodies, which is a reason that less civilized tribes could sometimes overpower civilizations. Usually ten farmers could defeat one non agriculturalist.
Basically grains enabled people to live in a state of ill health.
“Is there a good reason for anyone (with access to meat, fruit, and vegetables, that is) to rely on cereal grains for a significant portion of their caloric intake?”
Yes, advancing human evolution. It’s not my fault all you grain/carb-intolerant folks have been too slow to catch up genetically.
I was wondering if Mark or anyone else commenting here can help me:
I eat very minimal meat (chicken and fish once a week if anything), avoid milk, eggs, and processed foods. Now after reading this I’m considering removing bread and rice to the extent possible from my diet as well. However, I can’t live off of fruits and vegetables (+nuts) my entire life. Are lentils a grain? And pasta? I’m wondering what other variety I can add to my diet.
Hi everyone:
I’m on day four (who’s counting, right?) of eliminating grains. I just realized I am making a morning smoothie that does contain rice and pea protein, but other than that, no grains at all. I feel good emotionally, the gut is not as distended, but I feel pretty tired and hungry pretty much all the time. I’m enjoying my meals very much (grass fed burger last night, no bun, avocado/tomato salad, some fermented cabbage and marinated pickles) but I’m just wondering if there’s a sort of “breaking point” where it becomes easier? I’m really feeling like this is the lifestyle for me, due to the nagging health issues (sinus headaches, bad digestion, achy joints) but I have to say, I usually feel much better in the morning after a bowl of cereal for dinner (i.e. no meat) instead of the meat heavy meal I had last night. Anyone willing to share their experience?
its the same with nuts and seeds dopey ..soak and dry and store
Being disatisfied with all the overprocessed muesli that’s made available to us in supermarkets I’ve been looking up recipes all evening to make my own, minus the sugar and unnecessary fats etc…and lo, here i find myself in the midst of a very intelligent debate on the curse of the grain, the main components of muesli 🙂 The last few hours have been spent researching the benefits of each grain with the emphasis on those gluten free. I’m enlightened further by all the info written on here. I can see how it all gets confusing but clearly some arguments are well presented and others are, well, not so…it doesn’t mean they’re wrong in their ramblings tho. Personally, at the age of 47 and about to hit the menopause, i’m interested in being the healthiest i can be before i go beyond redemption and thus hurtling into old age with a host of ailments. I also have narcolepsy. I can probably, if i really put my mind (and pen) to it, list certain foods that will definately fatigue you all, and some that boost energy thru the roof. My diet is a major factor in my present stability and since being diagnosed a few years ago i’ve lost 6 stone thru careful planning and experimentation. I concur It’s all in the balance and as someone said earlier….I would advise that all concerns are researched and work out what’s best for YOU. Fact is, we are not all the same. We each have our own genetic makeup aswell as other factors such as inherited disorders, lifestyle factors such as finance, demographics, social inconvenience and personal tastes and preferences. I’m only slightly overweight…but i have quit smoking recently and gained about 6lb instead of some likely lung disease that will rob me of my dignity, my looks and eventually my life 🙂 I’ve been smoking since i was 8 years old…so this was my biggest health issue…and now i’m onto the next. I am fairly versed in good/bad foods….food is also my passion, if i have to eat it to survive then im gonna enjoy it! Right? So…back to the muesli debate. I eat a very balanced diet that works for me…this includes grains such as oats, chia, quinoa and also i need to eat physillium husk for fibre. Trust me…nothing else works for me. If i don’t have these grains, i back up quicker than the worlds biggest semi trailer and it’s not pretty!!! My skin also goes to ratshit…and that’s when i cut all the grains/carbs out. I panicked after losing 9lb in 2 days on a high lean protein/green veg/eggs diet…my neck was scrawnier than a prized turkeys! I don’t eat white rice, white potatoes, white bread (rarely eat bread at all actually). I eat low fat, hardly any dairy or alcohol, nothing excessively. I do eat the occassional cake, cookie, dessert, prime steak, lots of vegetable (mainly greens) and certain fruits. A contradiction of a diet?? hell yeah…and guess what? I feel ok, i look pretty good too apparently (for my age). So what’s my problem…well, i just wanna cut out the crap that’s being poured into our groceries, the processed stuff….i wanna be able to make my own healthier but tastier muesli for my breakfast, my own healthy soups for my lunch…varied, satisfying and tasty abut not poisoned out of my control. I’m STILL taking charge of my own health, i’m still learning what works best for me and what i can do without. I’ll die anyway, and THAT my friends, is THE only single certainty in this life. No-one is wrong on here…not in my opinion anyway. We all have different experiences, we all have valid points and it’s all because we all have different things going on in our very different bodies. As i’m sure Mark intended….let’s keep it informative, debatable and worthy….not personal, sarcastic and proud. Each to his own….as they say. Love, Laugh, Live….healthily balanced. Oh, and this is what triggered my recent concern with grains: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dr-mark-hyman/wheat-gluten_b_1274872.html
I have recently opened my eyes to the grain filled existence that most of us live. I remain an addict but have vastly reduced my intake while eating far more veggies, nuts and fruit ! I have to say, i do feel better with far more energy, less stomach problems etc. There are many opinions here on what we should consuming for reasons of either nutrition or also sustainability ….. I wonder has anyone here turned towards eating more insects, most are not only edible but also rich in nutrients and plentiful.
really? grains are bad for you? i dont know what drug youve been messing with but your completely wrong. lets say you want to be healthy and start working out daily. when you workout for the first 30min the energy comes from carbs. and where do you find carbs? thats right, in grains. so without adequate carb consumption you wont be able to achieve a healthy lifestyle because your workouts wont prosper because of inadequate carb consumption
Im way late getting to post here but I just wanted to add my experience after following a strict paleo diet and I’m at the 1 1/2 month mark.
1. At 170 lbs and being a very active person I trimmed down 8 lbs. Following my reg exercise and eating all I want. I do not count calories.
2. Cured my acne. Ya I CURED my acne I’ve been living with forever. (this was a happy accident):)
3. My blood sugar is perfect. I haven’t felt lightheaded or sluggish(needing sugar fix)
4. Im feeling 100 times better not relying on grains for food energy, and as a result of the strict regimen of fruit and veggies and fatty foods I no longer ‘crave’ bread,Doritos,candy bars, or crap food I could do without.
I’ve gone from thinking I was a healthy person to actually being and feeling very healthy. You just gotta want it!
where are your share buttons! I’d love to share this all over the interwebs, it’s the best explanation of this subject I’ve read yet.
Why Is Gluten Bad For You http://www.aboutgrain.com/why-is-gluten-bad-for-you/
I am confused. What is the difference between a seed(pumpkin, sunflower, etc.) and a grain(wheat, corn)? Is fresh corn on the cob OK? How about sprouts (alfalfa)?
I totally understand why grains are useless and all, but back in the caveman days, the earth had far less people on it. Is this primal blueprint sustainable today? Are you suggesting that we try to reverse the agricultural revolution and go back to how civilization once was? Grains feed the world, keep us alive. A switch back would cause severe lack of food, starvation, war, destruction of the environment, etc. I’m curious to know what your take is on that.
Actually, we already have all those things.
The Earth’s large population was ‘enabled’ (in the worst sense of that word) by the ag revolution. Large families are only necessary in the disease-ridden, patriarchal, territorial scheme necessitatied by an agricultural economy. Quite frankly, what upside is there to 8 billion people on the planet? If the population ever decreases greatly for whatever reason, I am all for keeping it low going forward.
There is no other explanation comes to my mind other than this sentence:
“Being spoiled little bratz”.
You know what? You don’t have to eat anything, just stop eating altogether and be a little help to the rest of us; maybe soon you’ll stop consuming air…
I’m not a fan of acting like a big jerk, but seriously?
Why would anyone wrote an article, just to try to convince itself through messing up with others’ minds?
Grains, you sleepyhead, are nature’s one of the most incredible features: They contain the life; in a “suspended animation” state. They contain the basic ingredient of a life on any place that is suitable. Once grains get in touch with water, they begin to thrive, every, single, one of them!
Infact, your meat eating brain and fat storing tummy doesn’t really need to eat anything for a whole year! You can drink water and that’s it! You do NOT deserve food!
Trying to bad mouth grains would be the stupidest thing to kid yourself from whining and saying “mom, i don’t wanna eat that…”
Don’t eat it, you unnecessary abuser of the content! Apparently, you don’t deserve to eat OR “thrive”.
Next time when you found some food on your plate, DO NOT EAT IT!
Let bacterias have it; after all, they have more integrity than your poor existence.
…
What a nerve…
Everyone is different. There are billions of people on this earth whose primary source of food is grains and they don’t seem to be doing too bad consuming so called “No benefit, plain evil” food source.
I don’t believe their is significant scientific data which is peer reviewed to CONCLUDE that grains are evil.
Well with your arguments you could apply this to any nutritious food. Fruit and vegetables are rich with antioxidants, vitamins and minerals, aswell as seeds, nuts etc. People don’t get problems because of grains but because of overconsumption of a certain nutrient. That applies to any product. You should rather write about bad impact of synthetic, processed foods, junk and candies because the health disadvantages from them are much greater. It is wrong to make people feel guilty about eating bowl of pasta whereas 1 in 3 people of US are overweight from eating too much junk(not grains). Again, point on words – too much.
Wow, just wow… grains are unhealthy now. Hey, while you’re at it tell us how meats, vegetables, fruit, dairy and sugars are all unhealthy too! Ever heard of moderation? I guess we will all have to resort to just living off of the air we breathe. It amazes me how people come on to sites like these and lap up the pseudo-science without doing some kind of research first.
He has lots of research and does not at all state that meats, vegetables or fruit are unhealthy and supplies a valid diet to implement using those healthy foods..Oh and aboslutely sugar is unhealthy clearly you have done ZERO research and completely missed the point of this proposed diet (which is just that, a proposed diet for those who have an open mind to consider it) which totally considers moderation as its basis.
I have a question. I understand that grains are not part of a healthy diet and that we do not need to eat them. Do you believe that complex carbs are important though? Do you think it’s necessary to eat potatoes, rice, and quinoa in order to have a balanced diet?
So what I can never understand is:
– wine invented around 8000 years ago (all these numbers from wikipedia, so forgive if not 100% accurate)
– chocolate invented around 3500 years ago
– bread invented around 30,000 years ago
Yet according to this site, wine in moderation is OK, some good quality chocolate is OK but grains are bad. But we have had 4 times as long to get used to eating grains as wine, and about 10x as long as chocolate!
So if our food choices should be made on what homo sapiens ate in the distance past, shouldn’t we prefer (good quality) grains over chocs & wine??
I never see anything explaining why this is wrong.
Really, it comes down to how you feel after you eat. I feel better when I don’t eat grains. Period. I lose weight, I don’t crave sugar, I don’t bloat, fart, burp, I’m less depressed, I have less pain, I don’t get sick as often, etc.
+1
Great article you got here and I like how you had all your sources for studies just so that we know this is true. I have really cut down on my grains though I do have a piece of ciabatta bread daily.
This article seems to be highly biased. I am a professional baker and have taken several nutrition classes and much of this does not mesh with what I have learned. Also, this article seems to have jumped on the ‘gluten is bad’ bandwagon. How about other grains? Are they bad too? Quinoa? Amaranth? Rice?Wheat and wheat relatives are the only targets here.
Firstly, insoluble fiber is good for you. It binds everything together so that going to the bathroom is easier. I used to have constipation problems as a kid and the medicine I was given was either fiber in pill format or something that drew water to my bowels. Insoluble fiber also does that job. As an adult most of my problems are gone now but I still eat a high fiber diet to prevent that. Grains are also not only the only source of insoluble fiber. Almost all other plants have some of this too. It is just cellulose from the cell walls of the plants that helps provide structure. The incidence of bowel cancer is on the rise because so many people eat processed food.
Secondly, grains are full of good nutrients – as long as they are whole grains. There is a reason that grains were the staff of life.
Thirdly, gluten is not a poison. Grains and all other edible plants have been selectively bred to taste better, be easier to digest and have greater yields. Gluten is simply a protein. One that is important for your diet if you eat little to no meat. Yes, people with Celiac or gluten allergy should avoid it, just like people who are allergic to soy should avoid it. That doesn’t automatically make it bad for everyone else.
Fourthly, no plant really wants to be digested! There are plants that require the outer husk of their seeds to be digested away before they can sprout, but this is a way to allow for greater distribution and/or to provide a rich environment for germination. However, they don’t want other parts to be eaten. This is why apples have cyanide in their leaves and seeds. Or why many wild relatives to cultivated plants are bitter tasting. We have bred plant toxins down to little or nothing over the millennia.
Fifthly, the roughly ten thousand years we have been eating large amounts of grains is plenty of time to evolve to digest them. Many herding cultures have evolved to be able to digest lactose in less time than that. If something is going to make it easier for us to exploit a food source, evolution WILL select for it. Cooking is a sort of predigestion. That is why we don’t have giant molars or huge fermentation vats in our guts. We didn’t need them to eat tough plant food.
Anyway, this is long winded. The problem with grains is people eat too many processed ones (processing is also like predigestion. That is why they are often higher in calories) and they eat too many along with too much fat and not enough exercise. Everything in moderation.
Please Mark.
Make an official list of foods we CAN eat.
And update it too, in case you find more like these evil grains that we shouldn’t eat.
I just read an article twice as long about how grains are good for you in SO MANY WAYS. This article was from the Harvard school of public health. I’m thinking of trying a grain free diet just for the heck of it. I think where alot of people get confused is merita white bread versus some minimally processed whole wheat bread. Both are grains, but white bread has a much longer journey from harvest to consumption (aka the process). Too much of anything is bad so I think we are all safe if we just make conscious decisions about food. Unless you have celiac disease and gluten allergies
And so the new dietary big bad approaches! Honestly people, if you have followed up on the entire food/health obsession thats taken root over the past decades you would realize that all the food scientist dosen’t have a clue about whats good for you and whats not. What can be said though is that the western diet is not good for us – every people/country that adopts it gets sicker! My advice – eat fresh food, not all that processed garbage (fructose and glucose) and exercise a lot more then you do today – you know deep down that you should 🙂
Hello. I do not eat grain – just organic Buckwheat. Good site. Raw and Vibrant.See – youis.org – For the bigger picture. Thanks Roland.
Great post. My question is what if you don’t want to eat meat (I know it’s a paleo blog)? What should you eat?
Thanks!
I was hitting 200lbs (33 years old, 5’6″) and I decided that enough was enough. I didn’t just go on a diet, I changed my eating habits. I eliminated ALL wheat products from my diet, and only ate whole foods (no more “light”, “low-xyz”, etc.). And I lost 30lbs in 3 months! My skin rashes went away, my knee pain went away, my mood went from “so-so” to great, I slept great, I had as much energy as I did when I was a child (really), and sex was awesome again. About a year later I started eating wheat again (I don’t know why, I wasn’t even craving it) and gained 20lbs, and some of the problems came back right away. Wheat is bad, I know – and I am going back to eating right again, and this time I’m saying bye to that poison for good!
I just heard about this “grains are really bad for you” for the first time this week. And from a medical source. So this site is part of my research.
There I was, thinking that by increasing our intake of wholegrains and consuming less and less prepackaged foods, I was doing good for myself and my family!
“Healthy” bread, oats and pasta are currently an important part of our intake.
Finding it hard to take this in. A radical change necessary? Where do we start?
I’m lucky enough that I don’t suffer any side effects from eating grains. That said, I’m attempting to move towards a more high protein/fat diet and reduce the number of carbohydrates I consume period.
However, there’s one reason to eat grains you didn’t include in your arguments. They’re freaking delicious. I can cut granola and cereal and crackers and all that out and not really miss it, but you will only take my Sourdough bread out of my cold, dead hands. My general approach to life is “everything in moderation.” It may not be healthy to eat bread for three meals a day every day, but for most of us, it’s not going to kill us to indulge every once in awhile.
I am sure there was a lot of research done the author on the subject of grains but I wonder where the information or rather the source of it comes from? I know in the Biblical times especially in the Old Testament, people ate grains. There is a lot of mentioning about eating bread in the Bible. If it was good for me, why isn’t good for us?
Read the book Lose the Wheat, Lose the Weight. Grains have evolved into a super-sized wheat which is super-sizing us! Great book. Explains how we get atherosclerosis, skin issues, hypothyroidism, etc. A quick read and very informative. I give it a thumbs up.
No grains = no beer, so you’ve lost me already.
Why is it that every time someone adopts a diet that involves completely abstaining from eating a particular food (meat, dairy, grains, etc) those who adopt said diet feel the need to preach it and push it on the rest of us?
This happens *without fail*. “I don’t eat meat/grains/dairy, so neither should any of you!”
Eat what you want, dont eat what you don’t want to, but leave the rest of us alone, please and thank you.
How about we all just don’t eat food.
I would suggest coconut flour or almond flour as being healthier than rice, quinoa or whole grains. Nut flours have more protein. Whole grains have more of the anti-nutrients than processed flour, so you won’t be absorbing certain nutrients. I heard in an interview by someone that research showed (sorry I can’t give the source more than it’s a free show you can listen to on blogtalkradio by underground wellness/Sean Croxton) eating quinoa produced a detergent (negative, possibly inflammatory) effect in the body. I’m just trying to share info that can help. If you feel you need to research it more for yourself, please do 🙂 And as someone else mentioned, if you feel bad after eating a certain food, don’t eat it, even if it’s supposed to be healthy. David Getoff gives this advice also. Everyone’s bodies are similar to a certain degree, but we also have differences unique to us, including which foods our bodies like or don’t like.
The PREVENTION is natural not chemical…
however, the TREATMENT after the fact is chemical…
Which side of the coin do you want in 10 years?
What we do against health now will catch up with us.
NUTS HAVE THE SAME ANT-NUTRIENTS SO I’M ASSUMING THE INFLUENCE ON THE BLOOD SUGAR IS WHY GRAINS ARE OFF THE PRIMAL LIST OF APPROVED FOODS?
Please list your sources after your articles. I am trying to get good articles to write my argument paper. Thanks
http://www.outlawfitnesshq.com/why-grains-and-gluten-arent-bad-for-you read this article, and how it totally owns this pseudo scientific garbage.
Frankly, I don’t get the point of any of this.
Not to be a party-pooper but as Rodney Dangerfield once remarked, “Even if I eat real healthy & take excellent care of myself, one day I’m going to get very sick and die.”
My point is if you are in good general health, (don’t have celiac or other food allergies) lean, athletic, good vital signs, blood pressure, etc (I am), what is the point of denying yourself simple pleasure like an occassional piece of toast, pizza, pasta, etc?
I found this site in my quest to solve a life-long insomnia problem. As a process of elimination I have eliminated all wheat, pasta and dairy.
Frankly, I dont feel any different and feel resentful that I can’t have the foods that satisfy me.
Again, I don’t get the point of these extreme dietary views…nobody is getting out of this alive…no matter how “healthy” you eat…
Yes ! As well as fantastic nutritious qualities Grains do have a protective reproductive shield that can be damaging to our human digestive systems. But the good news is that these damaging properties are greatly removed ( No longer needed ) once the growing propagation process has begun. The answer ? If you really must have grains then why not germinate them for 2-3 days. It may be better to eat a healthy living grain than …. a Dormant Toxic One .
A charde
Just a note. As to wondering why grains are on the food pyramid. Someone may have already said this, but the comments are so long it would take me a month to read thru them. Anyway, grains are on the Department of Agriculture Food Pyramid BECAUSE THE FARM LOBBY IS EXTREMELY POWERFUL IN THIS COUNTRY. If nobody ate grains, where would Iowa be?!?!?
It still be the place where everyone has given up on their dreams.
I think that today (modern day) most people are also eating a lot more convenient foods…. The processed foods that were not available back in the caveman days….. The processed foods are so full of chemicals, maybe that is why we are in a health crisis….These chemicals causing cancer and all sorts of other health related issues. Dairy is bad for you because it is processed…. raw milk may be a little dangerous, but i hear it is better for you than milk u buy in a store…. We need o get rid of all this processed crap people are eating… maybe that is the reason we have intestinal problems, asthma, allergies, etc….
Your site wins the award: WARNING – Dietary information on this site could be harmful to your health and wellness!
Avoid grains in your diet? Good grief… Another site promulgating nutritional myths. Stamp out this growing and misleading myth !!
The examples you gave supporting not eating grains are as weak and misleading as the facts that you presented.
Consider, some grains offer excellent sources of antioxidants ( black n kidney beans) in addition to high fiber. Oh yeah, the recommended amount of daily fiber is over 35gr which a minority of people consume. Replacing meat and dairy products with grain products (not processes) will improve your health and wellness. The list of benefits of grains in ones diet was not properly outlined nor explained. Everyone, talk to a dietician or nutritionist and ignore quack websites that spread nutrition myths like this one!
Your comment is a real wealth of misinformation. Black and kidney beans are grains? News to me. Talk to a nutritionist? Seriously? They are still promoting the same bad advice they were promoting 75 years ago. If you want a load of real dietary quackery, talk to a traditional nutritionist.
Fact is, most if not all grains are now genetically modified to maximize profit but not health. They also directly contribute to weight gain if not burned off as energy by a WHOLE LOT of exercise. If you think that old, erroneous food pyramid (that promotes many servings of grains and dairy) is such a good idea, perhaps you can explain why so many people who adhere to traditional diets are fat and unhealthy.
I have been researching it a little bit now, and I think that the whole genetically modified reasoning is actually one of the better reasons not to eat the grains. It seems that when the problems started.
Oats! They’re so tasty & satisfying when cooked up just right. But they can cause explosive farting for so many hours afterwards that you can’t get any sleep, even if you ate them for breakfast. Of course it isn’t like this for everyone. Who knew?!
The three most genetically engineered crops are corn, soy, and wheat. Wheat is actually considered a poison and it has been genetically tampered with, according to the information on this weblink: naturalnews.com/037133_wheat_gluten_poison.html
Soy should be consumed only if fermented as in miso soup or Korean fermented bean paste soup/stew. Here’s information about why unfermented soy is bad for human health (Frankencorn is also mentioned here in which 100% of it is GMO): http://www.naturalnews.com/036736_GMOs_drought_corn.html
I will be giving a presentation at a health center about GMOs/GEOs and it will be packed with information, most of it substantiated by peer reviewed research/journals. A lot of the research is deliberately withheld or buried because it negatively affects the perception of powerful companies and groups that care about people only as commodities; and consequently the truth affects their profits.
Hello,
I eat grains, breads, and cereals all the time everyday I would say >150grams per day.
I am very fit, I have no gastro issues, no significant health issues, and I feel great.
Based on your article heading “why grains are unhealthy” and your book as well, why should I stop eating carbohydrates?
I can understand some people cant metabolise them as well as others, but you are suggesting that EVERYONE should eliminate them.
I mean, you dislike that the national guidelines encourage everyone to eat grains, and now you are encouraging everyone to not eat them.
Why aren’t we informing people that some can tolerate grains/carbs and some people cannot, rather than still telling people misleading information?
The original diet is fruits, grains and nuts. That is how God designed it from the beginning. We shouldn’t even be eating meat. Fast food is making people fat and all the crap that they’re putting in our foods like msg, aspartame, high fructose corn syrup. All poison!
You are totally inaccurate and deluded.
Very well written. Since cutting back on all grains I have found an energy level not felt since my early 20’s.
I love/hate your blog, and I am sure that you adore that reaction.
I personally find all of the above reasons moot points for me. I am 31 years of age with an 18.5 percent BMI. My bristol scale is terrific. I have an incredibly high water, raw food, fat, meat, and veggie intake. I drink two cups of black coffee daily (my choice) and eat a single serving of properly prepared grains of primarily the oat, and spelt varieties (also my choice). I feel AMAZING! I do not have headaches, chronic fatigue, or anything hinting that I struggle with grain consumption. The mass majority of my dairy is a cultured, raw kefir, and the only other beverage I drink other than water and coffee is my brewed kombucha. I have gone weeks without grain, and felt no difference or improvement. Can someone for the life of me tell me why I should believe that paleo is the way, the truth and the life.
I would seriously love other reasons.
I am just not buying it.
Now what I do agree with is that the public is primarily clueless how to care for their bodies, and for that reason I love ya! I really do!
But why the ultimatum?
Thanks for your time,
Danielle
Citing a study and then using a part of it to support your claims, while considering another part complete rubbish makes for a poor argument.
i think you have to look at the 192 countries in the world how do they advertise food how do they accept it, its doesnt take a rocket scientist to work out the americans are on huge portions and the japanese are eating rice and fish and outlive everyone this seems down to diet i think brits jut need to re educate as people are stuck in there ways we need more smoothie bars in towns and cities not mcdonalds an cake shops this is down to government aswell
All very well but I just had an Indian and had some naan bread. And it was well nice.
From what I’ve read about grains in the recent scientific literature, it seems that grains are really good for you, and form a big part of a healthy diet. I was wondering whether there were any peer-reviewed articles that anyone could point me to, to suggest that grains are actually unhealthy? I see that Mark has put across his personal testimony of how they affect him, but it seems that you’d need a heap of really good research to counter all the evidence based pro-grain literature that is currently floating around. Any further reading would be much appreciated (not blogs or opinions, just scientific, peer-reviewed articles please).
hi there mark — i was just wondering, having been reading a lot of your stuff and recently made a switch independently to 50% raw foods, what your stance is on the theory that it was our increased use of carbs as fuel that, by offering a faster energy source, directly contributed to the increased brain size and intelligence that we have now?
You need to deepen your research on humans of the Paleolithic age. They DID gather and consume grains and legumes. Not that I consider gluten to be good for me in particular, but it’s always good to understand the TRUTHFUL reasons to observe one’s dietary restrictions.
Good god. Most of the world eats grains, and as far as I can tell if eaten in moderation there’s no harm no foul. Every single one of my relatives who lived into their late 90’s eats – or ate – grains – gasp! As far as me – My 70-something parents, my brother and I eat predominately South Indian & Medteranean style food – fish, grains, beans, and lots of veg. We are all thin and healthy and none of us take any medications or have any health issues.
I am boggled by the USA’s approach to food, which treats it alternately as either medicine or threat. Food is food. Enjoy it, eat it with others, eat everything in moderation, and stop fretting about toxicities or imagined threats.
Now there are people with honest-to-god food allergies and intolerances. That’s different. Far be it from me to tell a celiac to eat wheat, for example. But most of this stuff for most of the population is just trendy nonsense.
could not agree more
I watched the documentary ‘Forks Over Knives’ on Netflix. I’m now a vegan because of it, and now you guys are telling me to not eat grains and beans. Where do you think I should get my proteins? I really do not want to eat meat because of the harmful health issues associated with it.
Just read the wheat blog. Did not see any references or scientific studies-did I miss them? If so please point them out.
I do not eat meat and I hate vegetables. Where does that leave me?
More misinformation. I’m appalled at the level of ignorance of the author, this article (and the entire site) really is a disservice to everyone.
So I came across this article linked from another site. I have been doing CrossFit and Paleo for the past six months now. I am down 55 lbs and 5 pants sizes. And I feel good. But I am not convinced on the whole grains are evil thing. Vegans have almost the exact same argument about meat. (I like Paleo way better than Veganism by the way.) So I asked a buddy who is a R.D. about the whole phytic acid thing. He said that it is a real thing, but eating Vitamin C can counteract that by making the nutrients more bioavailable. I’d love to get your thoughts.
First the public is told that eating whole grains is good for them. Now the public is told that eating grains isn’t good for them. Who’s right? Who’s wrong? What do you believe?
I think the best way to find out if grains, or any food for that matter, is or isn’t right for your body is to work with a nutritionist who can tell you what to eat. Then again, if she says, “You need to eat animal protein,” and you’re a vegetarian, you’re back at square one.
Sigh.
Now I need to do some research of my own because I eat grains, albeit not every day, but I do eat them.
Years ago during the Atkins craze, I tried it and felt miserable. Now, my Naturopath put me on a no-grains diet (I’m a vegan now). And just like before I feel miserable, have no energy, and have actually gained 5 lbs. I think it’s possible that some people feel better without grains… but I feel like my body was made to eat them. So bring on the rice, quinoa, corn, and spelt please!
Laura, how long did you try the “no grains” diet? If it was less than 2-3 weeks, please look up “low carb flu” and try it again. Coming off a high grain/high carb diet can cause a lot of ill feelings, but once those go away, most people (like, 99.9%) feel great.
If you buy into this article, then you deserve the consequences. I’m not going to cite a bunch of sources to back my statement (that’s your job, and frankly, it’s your right to believe whatever you want), but this article, as a whole, is far from totally accurate. Whole quality grains are healthy and good for most people. They provide nutrition, energy, and fiber. And grains are not served as sticks and twigs as described in the article. This author has some key points, but don’t believe everything he says. He’s on a mission, and that mission is to say controversial things, get attention, and make money. Nothing wrong with that. We all need money. But just think for yourself and decide if full grain exclusion is sensible.
READ THIS BOOK…
WHEAT BELLY, by Dr. William Davis…
you will be amazed …
Read this book, you will be amazed…
“WHEAT BELLY,” by Dr. William Davis
Thank you…
Sage
Read this book… you will be amazed…
WHEAT BELLY, by Dr. William Davis…
thank you,
Sage
Hi..
Wow.. Lots of information.. I’ve lost 141 pounds – more healthy but I realize that grain is not good for us..
I’m curious that is lentils or chickpea or any beans part of grain? or legume?
I know that they are part of legume but I’m just want to make sure..
What about couscous? It is part of wheat.. is that right?
you mentioned that we are allowed to eat grains once a while..
I grew up on a farm.. Now everything makes sense..
Thank you for sharing it with us and look forward to your response..
Sonia
I refer vegans and vegetarians to this article anytime they say grains are healthy and that we need them in our diets. It irks me to no end… but I guess they don’t know what they don’t know. They don’t realize their baseline of wellness could increase significantly by switching to Paleo/Primal. I’ve never felt better in my life. It’s the best decision I ever made and only took me (nearly) 28 years of my life to get there.
Anyone have suggestions on how to ward off non-Paleo/Primal believers? I’ve had an impression on a number of individuals who are jumping into the Paleo world, but still have some who adamently oppose it.
Hi!
I found interesting the topic of not-eating-grains. However, we believe, fermentation does break down much of gluten, so is quite safe to eat.
We are eating sourdough bread and my husband who had before always complains for digestion, feel just fine. Otherwise, my son is celiac, so I`m transforming his standard celiac-diet for a better one.
I looked at the wikipedia-site for grains and a few of them are in my regular diet. Lentils, quinoa and chickpeas. Do they fall in the category of unhealthy grains or can i continue to eat them?
As with all things, I’m sure much of it is done to create jobs & industry. Government makes people ill by promoting foods that mess with our body, we are then forced to pay big pharma to cure us. Natural diets can prevent & even cure disease, but it’s got to the point that no one can afford to eat natural. Going organic or gluten free etc costs much more these days than the pills big pharma will prescribe to treat certain conditions you may get from not being able to afford to eat healthy organic or gluten free! It’s shameful what humanity is allowed to do to their fellow human being purely for self gain.
We should argue on the internet about this. Nothing more productive than internet arguing. If you doubt the claims of the article – do your own research, try living this way for a month or two and see how you feel. I agree nobody should swallow every idea on the internet hook line and sinker but I question the intelligence of anybody that doesn’t apply the same scrutiny to any claim made by the media, the government or pharma/biotech.
Take your own health seriously – make up your own mind. All the papers and proof in the world wouldn’t change my mind about this lifestyle. I lived for nearly 10 years thinking I had Crohn’s disease because numerous GI doctors wouldn’t even entertain the idea that it could be gluten. When you go from filling a toilet bowl with blood to feeling 18 again because of lifestyle change like this you know better than to question the results.
I don’t press this lifestyle on anybody in my life, but when they ask how I went from a chronically ill 330 lb man to a picture of health 225lb man (I’m 6’5″) I tell the truth. To hell with them if they don’t listen.
Is it for everybody? Nope. Is it for me? yep. Is it for you? Find out for yourself.
I have been on this diet for 3 days now and I just realized that the argument for not eating grains is that they are seeds. Because seeds have protective mechanisms like pyruvate and etc, we should avoid them right?
Wouldn’t the same go for nuts like almonds, peas, walnuts and etc since they are still seeds of a plant??
Am I missing something? Someone help me out please
This is going to sound crazy to everyone, and I hope that some good ideas come forth. I feel so much better eating wheat than not. I have a severely impaired GI tract- motility is basically non-existent. Diagnoses are: gastroparesis, chronic intestinal pseudo-obstruction (CIP), colonic inertia, and anismus. Additionally, the anatomy of my stomach and small intestine has been drastically altered as a result of the disease process. I had my colon completely removed at the age of 21 (now 27). I went paleo and gluten free for years and experienced NO improvement of symptoms. Granted, my health problems will not and cannot be solved by diet, but by trial and error, I have discovered the “good” foods (the ones my system tolerates), and the “bad” foods (the ones that will level me for weeks). With any type of rice, I get a ton of bloating and gas, and it’s constipating like nobody’s business. Wheat causes me none of the above problems. In fact, my gut actually functions better when I eat it. I haven’t touched soy or dairy in over a decade (been sick A LONG time!). I was grain-free for over two years, and honestly never found it harder to have a BM. Literally, no stool would pass. Add a backed-up problem to a gut that is already very, very slow…let’s just say it’s a world of pain. I have had every celiac test under the sun- results are all negative; every scope is abnormal as a result of the disease process. Tested negative for every autoimmune condition under the sun. My diet is mainly lean proteins (chicken, turkey; can only handle red meat on occasion- usually bison) and certain fruits and vegetables; one serving of grain (again, wheat settles the best- weird, I know). I’m not asking anyone to try to solve my extensive GI pathology (this is a progressive condition), just looking for ideas as to why my gut functions and feels so much better on wheat. It’s not a temporary “high”, like what can occur when you crave the foods you’re allergic to. My elimination diets have been conducted systematically and over a period of years.
Ok. I understand the idea’s presented, but people have been eating grains for a very long time. If they were so toxic wouldn’t we have died off by now? Also grain are not the only foods that contain toxins. All you have to do is eat the wrong fish once and your dead. The problem with diabeties is the fact that we add sugers to grains, Instead of simply taking out the toxins threw cooking and mealing. To me there is no real reason to not eat grains. Yes the FDA has there priorities in the wrong places. Yes Americans consume way to many carbs mostly from bread. But there is no place to say you should not eat grains. Beans and rice is the only reason why most of the world servives, and the rice plays an equal part to the beans. P.S. Some beans (legumes) are also toxic if not cooked.
Interesting and entertaining article, however, regarding your comment on dairy… some of us may be able to “tolerate” it, but no human on the planet has the enzymes necessary to break down casein so we are unable to fully digest it and it has even more dire consequences than the dreaded grain has. If you have not already read it you may find T. Colin Campbell’s work “The China Study” informative. This esteemed research scientist spent 40 years researching the subject.
In any case, a predominantly plant based diet is the way to go. That, however, does not necessarily include grains, of course.
don’t believe everything you read on the internet, just listen to your body. There is no one size fits all diet plan. Grains are very nutritious, filling and full of vitamins and minerals. They have to be whole grains not refined or processed. Brown rice, steel cut oats, quinoa, buckwheat, amaranth, millet, etc are excellent. My digestion is so much better and energy level improved when I eat whole grains. Never let anyone tell you what’s good for you and what’s not. Do your own research, work with your diet and settle in on what works best for you, not for them.
I think the “You need the vitamins and minerals!” section is really the only one you need to dispel the notion that grains are essential for a healthy diet. Any nutritional benefit provided by grains can be gotten from other, healthier sources. You want fiber? Eat whole fruits and vegetables. Anti-oxidants? Eat whole fruits and vegetables. Vitamins? Eat whole fruits and vegetables. Replace most or all of your grains with fruits and vegetables, and you will be a healthier person. It’s that simple.
Dear Mark, following your reply to its logical end, you would not be consuming anything but a few of the most nutrient-dense foods. For example, why would you consume grass-fed beef (the lean muscle meat) when you could get orders of magnitude more nutrition from the liver. You would just consume the liver, every meal, day after day. But we don’t do this (even though it is possible in this time with the great availability of foods) because you would miss out on variety, a very important component of successful diets. This link you might find interesting (it is written especially for your comment): http://www.arthurhaines.com/10-July-2013.html . Best wishes in health.
May I ask if phytates only block minerals if they’re eaten with the meal from which you’re specifically getting these minerals?
What if for example, I get a cup of green tea (which contains phytates) in the morning an hour before I eat anything?
This is ludicrous. As a professional in the field of eating disorders, it is garbage like this that confuses the clients I treat and fuels their distorted thoughts. I will never believe that plants that grow from the earth, and that taste to delicious are bad for everyone. This is complete BS.
I am actually here because of my ED (EDNOS) which means, “Eating Disorder Not Specified” for those who didn’t know.
I’m not sure to stay away from grains or just have them in moderation. Thankfully I am getting help with my disordered way of eating, and how I feel and think about food….
Mark – Thanks for the incredibly insightful post. Your views are certainly respected by the community which is why I was surprised to see some weak arguments chipping away at the credibility of this otherwise enlightening post. For instance, your gluten argument does hold a lot of weight in the scientific community but your fiber argument is alarmingly weak. You’ve discounted the conclusions of the one scientific study you referenced because you didn’t like how they described fiber’s interaction with cells in the GI. Then, to support your point of view, you reference Konstantin Monastyrsky, who is neither a scientist nor a doctor. Finally, you end your whole argument by saying “there’s plenty of fiber in the vegetables and fruit I eat” which implies that fiber is necessary and completely discounts that whole argument.
Your articles are very valued in the health and nutrition community but I would encourage readers to investigate further and get numerous perspectives. This goes for all blogs including yours and mine.
Finally, thanks for generating this great dialogue among your readers. I can feel everybody becoming smarter about what they eat!
So, are nuts safe?
Though I do feel it is important to “rebel” (for lack of a better word) against many USDA suggested foods, this is (in my opinion) another case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Modern grains (particularly wheat) have some real health detriments, especially when eaten as a staple. However, there are wild grains with very different qualities and have been used as staples by indigenous people (without creating health problems).
A given scientific study may show that fiber is bad. But note that wild plant foods (non-cultivated foods that were eaten by paleo hominids) were much higher in fiber than todays engineered foods. Virtually all the produce in the supermarket has been genetically modified (through breeding) to create foods that have more calories and less nutrition per unit mass than their wild progenitors. If fiber is truly bad for us, this would speak poorly of plants actually eaten by wild hominids.
Toxic antinutrients (such as phytic acid) are also present in nuts and other foods recommended by many paleo authors. The presence of antinutrients does not, in and of itself, demonstrate a food should not be consumed. Phytic acid can be dealt with through soaking, sprouting, and (most effectively) fermenting. Using this as an excuse to avoid grains (or nuts or various seed-like fruits including quinoa and amaranth) isn’t providing the entire picture. We are humans and we use our knowledge and resourcefulness to acquire and process foods to make them more nutritious (in this case, eliminate compounds that detract from the nutrition of harvested foods).
A wild grain that is an important staple in my house in northern wild rice (Zizania palustris), harvested using traditional methods from water courses in Maine. This grain has no gluten (like some other traditional grains). This wild plant was a staple of indigenous people of the Great Lakes region. Note that these people could produce well-formed bodies (broad faces with all teeth–including wisdom teeth–emerging straight and uncrowded). People who consume wheat as a staple are not able to derive the nutrition they need, as evidenced by the fact they can’t build proper form (all indigenous people around the world who consumed wild foods, in some cases including non-cultivated grains, were able to build broader faces than we can on our supermarket diets).
It is important (I feel) to not generalize too much. The Paleo Diet is a poor representation of what paleo hominids ate, because (for example) the vast majority of the plant foods heavily relied upon didn’t exist. If anyone eats an actual wild diet (one that more closely mimics the plant foods eaten in paleolithic times) you will rely on large variety of plant foods and that may include wild grains. The nutritional profile of wild rice is impressive (for a grain), as it exceeds wheat in many vitamins and minerals and has a much better omega 6 to omega 3 fatty acid profile (fully 30% of its fats are ALA). The fact that wheat is a poor choice for a staple doesn’t mean (in my opinion) that all grains should be avoided. Grains were consumed by paleo hominids and more modern-day indigenous people without creating the issues we see in those that rely on wheat as staple. Context is critical. Thanks for your writing, it is a pleasure to read.
Mark – Thanks for the incredibly insightful post. Your views are certainly respected by the community which is why I was surprised to see some weak arguments chipping away at the credibility of this otherwise enlightening post. For instance, your gluten argument does hold a lot of weight in the scientific community but your fiber argument is alarmingly weak. You’ve discounted the conclusions of the one scientific study you referenced because you didn’t like how they described fiber’s interaction with cells in the GI. Then, to support your point of view, you reference Konstantin Monastyrsky, who is neither a scientist nor a doctor. Finally, you end your whole argument by saying “there’s plenty of fiber in the vegetables and fruit I eat” which implies that fiber is necessary and completely discounts that whole argument.
Your articles are very valued in the health and nutrition community but I would encourage readers to investigate further and get numerous perspectives. This goes for all blogs including yours and mine.
Finally, thanks for generating this great dialogue among your readers. I can feel everybody becoming smarter about what they eat!
My complete response is here: http://whatsnickeating.com/2013/05/28/why-grains-are-unhealthy-a-response/
What about Einkorn – The Original Wheat?
http://www.tropicaltraditions.com/einkorn-ancient-grains.htm
This is the same wheat found in the tombs of Egyptian Pharaohs,
and it’s very different from today’s wheat.
I was told that the reason wheat was so bad was ‘because it had
been genetically modified so many times’ – well this stuff has probably
never been modified ..
And it’s organic ..
Also, isn’t Black Rice a grain? Sounds like this one may be healthier
than blueberries?
I tend to wonder if grains are that bad, or if we are just eating the
wrong ones (like Monsanto’s gm wheat)?
hablo por mi experiencia,,sufro de la tiroides e intestinos desde hace dos años,,,he sufrido mucho,,y todo esto debido al cambio de alimentacion,,,,empece a comer mucha soya, granos etc y luego mucho estres,, y empezaron las taquicardias,,,,,he estado casi a morir,,,hozpitalizada,,,,muy mal….. he dejado de comer granos y guten,,,,eso me ayuda mucho,, tampoco como carne roja,,,solo pollo y pescado,,,verduras, nueces, futas,etc—— soy cristiana adventista,,,y creo en el vegetarianismo,,mas no creo en los granos,,,,creo en Dios y no en el mono,,,,pero de que el gluten es dañino,,,lo es!!!
Well, I can’t seem to search the commends, so hopefully this hasn’t been posted already.
Anyway archeologists now claim that our distant ancestors, the one’s the palio diet is supposed to emulate, actually ate grass and whatever else they found on the African savannah. And that means grains, because grains are seeds.
Though I don’t doubt the science of why grains may be bad, especially in the large quantities of the modern diet. But one of the tenets of Palio is that our ancestors didn’t eat such things. Well, as it turns out, science shows that this could be more assumption than fact.
Responses?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-22752937
“Why do Paleo and Atkins-style diets (i.e. low-carbohydrates) cause constipation?”
Ironically, this title along with an explanation, appears in the referenced
Fiber Menace by Konstantin Monastyrsky. Perhaps Mark (or whoever the proofreader was) Didn’t think anyone would actually follow up on the “supporting evidence”.
There is no bonafied, double blind test with significant numbers of participants over a significant span of time that proves or even suggests that a Paleo diet is better. Excuse me for wanting factual supporting evidence for amazing claims (which happen to create a fair amount of income for the ones making the claims).
I love the eat whole foods method here but should ALL breads and grains be eliminated? What about cultures who eat grains all of the time(like Asians) who are some of the most healthiest people on the planet? Other cultures seem to know the key to moderation better than Westerners do. How ever I will definitely be REDUCING my intake of carbs in the form of pastas and grains.
I eat grains every day, and I’m fine.
“What is food to one man may be fierce poison to others.”—Lucretius
Your evidence from Dr. Paul L. McNeil, a cell biologist at the Medical College of Georgia regarding high fiber foods banging up against the cell lining, is actually an incorrect reference for your argument as the article actually states:
“When you eat high-fiber foods, they bang up against the cells lining the gastrointestinal tract, rupturing their outer covering. What we are saying is this banging and tearing increases the level of lubricating mucus. It’s a good thing.”
Dr. McNeil discovered that frequent cell injury and cell repair occurs when we eat. Dr. Paul L. McNeil then goes on to say, “It’s a bit of a paradox, but what we are saying is an injury at the cell level can promote health of the GI tract as a whole.”
I would be wary of the rest of this person’s “research” also. It is obvious it isn’t very well done.
I have fatigue due to nodules in the thyroid and really low levels of DHEA and progesterone. Im 38. I am intolerant to wheat and cow’s milk, yeasts, malt, etc.
Would you recommend a vegan diet? I have tried in the past but was not good.
I would appreciate your expert advice.
Thanks
Enjoyed your writing on grains. Incidently I recently read the book Fiber Menace, which led me back to proper food combining (as in “Fit for Life”). I quit the ‘mega-fiber’ and I’m better for it. These days I hardly ever eat grains. I agree that fruits and vegetables likely have enough fiber – and how natural is it anyway to be OD’ing on grain fiber and destroying one’s mucosa (shudder)…
We’ve always eaten inconvenient foods like grains. The paleo world never talks about acorns. They were the premiere paleo food — literally the entire temperate world ate them as the bulk of their diet for thousands of years, but we certainly don’t have the ability to digest them. They need to be prepared by us to be nourishing, and then they are superb food. If we could deal with preparing our acorns properly, then we can deal with our grains, too. soak, sprout, ect. I do think that acorns are a lot better food than grain, though.
I feel so IRRITABLE when I eat grains!! I also feel “off” and less coordinated and agile. If you suffer from anger or irritability, try resisting grains and you may see a difference. Ditto if you wanna be at the top of your game physically.
I eat grains (gluten free ones due to intolerance) but I know without delusion, they’re a less optimal way of getting complex carbs than a sweet potato or even (gasp) white potato. They’re also a less optimal way of getting other essential nutrients than getting them from vegetables, fruits, nuts, seeds, fat and grass fed meat. There aren’t any nutrients in grains that you can’t get from foods closer to the source and easier to digest. Also, most processed grain cereal products have to be fortified with vitamins, presumably to make up for the empty calorie consumption which presumably leaves less room for eating foods naturally high in vitamins and minerals.
But, grains are available, socially acceptable and relatively cheap. When I see unhealthy people try and “get healthier”, I have nothing but encouragement for them even when they opt for more wholegrains. This is because as their journey progresses, I usually see them gradually and naturally/ unknowingly increasing their intake of vegetables and effectively crowding out the need for excess grains.
Grain Fed Chicken = Paleo?
I once flew (Flight for Life – EMS) a 14 year old female to a Pediatric ICU with an exacerbation of a gluten allergy after eating pork from her family’s ranch. The receiving ICU doctor stated that the consumption of grain fed pork led to her acute illness.
Question: Where is grass fed chicken sold?
I have seen grass fed beef in the market, however, I have never seen grass fed chicken.
Sincerely,
Kim Allen, RN, EMT-P
Then what carbohydate (that is not a vegestable) is healthy and we can eat then?
What about sprouted grains? Just about all the breads I eat are sprouted. Does that make a difference?
I think I’ve now referred this post to over one million people! Ha! Keep up the good work this information is invaluable.
I believe fibers from whole grains are good but you need to eat whole grain in moderation. The My Plate Method (which happens to replace to old food pyramid) tells just that. Too much whole grain is also not that beneficial because the carbs from grains will only be converted in fat and nothing else. And if you are trying to lose some weight, this is going to be a bad news for you.
It’s really great how you’ve taken all the normal reasons that people have for eating a lot of grain and debunked the rumors. Grain can be good in certain quantities but it’s not absolutely necessary. This was very interesting to me and I’m definitely glad I read it.
Mark(or anyone who cares)! Could you please re-post the link to Stephan’s article?
I found a link to the study mentioned in the ScienceDaily Article, here it goes:
http://www.plosbiology.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pbio.0040276;jsessionid=F75A1A5FD1C7B1C5005B62BC4CF207F1
What about those of us who run 50+ miles per week with another 5-6 hours of weight training on top of that? ??!! How on earth do I eat 3200 calories per day of salad? 😉
i appreciate your concerns about grains but we all need grains for health. The prayer “Give us this day our daily bread” (Matt 6.11) still rings true even in our day.
How important are grains?
Grains make up the most abundant foodstuffs in the world, and for many populations they truly represent “the stuff of life”. What an array in variety they present: barley, wheat, oats, rye, buckwheat, corn, rice, millet! Unfortunately, many areas of the earth feed the bulk of their grain to the livestock and eat their nutrients secondhand – in meat products.
Grains
Are you being robbed of the best part of the grain?
When you choose a variety of cereals and breads mainly in the unrefined form, you have available so much more nutrition than is present in the refined and “enriched” kind. We commonly think that milling removes only a few vitamins and minerals but does not affect the rest of the kernel, and that the enrichment program that is now mandatory throughout the United States makes up for these losses. It is estimated that more than 20 nutrients are removed in milling, and enrichment restores four of these nutrients. The four that are restored are three of the vitamins of the B complex -thiamin, riboflavin, niacin, and the mineral iron. since the enrichment program has been in effect, several deficiency diseases of the B vitamins have largely disappeared.
Some of the best-quality protein, as well as other nutrients, including plant oils, is found in the germ and bran that often go into livestock feed. (Isn’t it strange that animals are often better fed than we are?) Since whole-grain cereals and bread provide moderates amounts of protein, excellent sources of B vitamins, and some of the vital minerals, they should be amply represented in a well-chosen diet.
Start your day off with good cereals
From what I read about lectins, they do not seem nearly as bad as you deem them to be, on the contrary, they seem to be beneficial. From the regulation of cell adhesion, to targeting certain proteins and delivering them to lysosomes. Also, on the point of Phytic Acid, I’m reading currently that yes, it does deem certain minerals unabsorbable, but not infinitely, only a percentage of these minerals will not be absorbed (not saying that it’s a small or large percentage, or this makes grains worthwhile, just that it is not ultimately bad/dumb to eat grain.)
“Lectins are bad.” FYI, not all of them are! Lectins are a carbohydrate binding protein, but not all lectins are the same. There are many forms of this protein depending on the source. Some have adverse side effects in the gut, others do not. Veggies and grains both contain lectins.
“..Studies on the effects of lectins on the gut have revealed that oral administration of low doses of lectins can have many beneficial effects on the digestive/absorptive efficiency of the gut, its immune system and bacterial ecology and that, by modulating the secretion of gut hormones, some lectins can influence the body’s endocrine system with beneficial consequences for general metabolism.”
Source: Pusztai, A. (1993) Eur. J. Clin. Nutr. 47, 691-699
As a scientist, I am sick of reading paleo blogs about antinutrients and how they are harmful when those people writing them do not understand the underlying mechanisms of proteins and their effects on the body.
Just because Mark says “Lectins are bad” does not mean that they are! Do your research and think critically about what you read.
Maybe I’ll start a paleo blog, one based on actual scientific research that has been done AND is cited.
Show me your references, Mark!
I think the ancient ,wiser peoples generally got around the potential problems of grains by realising that ‘instant’ was a pipe dream …they thrived on the ‘staff of life’ by well fermenting/predigesting or by sprouting them.
Oh yes, obviously the cornerstone of human society, who’s advance and development allowed the formation of civilization itself is “unhealthy”. How long do you think planet could support the human population without the staple of it’s diet?
Why eat grains? We are lucky enough to live in a standard of living that allows us to eat meat and select vegetables. Grains feed the masses, imagine Asia without rice or the west without wheat. We wouldn’t have the over population problem we have now as we’d still all be Grok, although most of us would never have been born.
The paleo diet is healthy but it also expensive and unsustainable in the world sense. Grains are the reason we exist now, we are the lucky few who don’t have to eat grains to survive anymore, most people on earth don’t get this choice.
Mark, I agree with the argument against eating grains and limit my grain consumption as much as possible, but how can you be against fiber to support your reasoning?
What about vegetables and nuts? They contain fiber, and they are obviously good for you.
Hey Mark S.!
I have been enjoying your website for a few months now. I found it through google after a lady sitting next to me on a long flight challenged me to look into the science behind wheat (I am a scientist, and she wasn’t getting far with me by arguing anecdotally).
I accepted her challenge and started reading articles here and elsewhere (wheatbelly came up quite a bit as well as your site). The evidence confirmed my lifetime of personal data. For example, when back in the day I would prepare (refined wheat) pasta with clam sauce. I would stuff myself and yet be ravenous an hour or two later. Why?
Now a grilled or broiled salmon fillet with a huge side of steamed broccoli keeps me filled for hours, hmm… why? Well of course you explain why in detailed article after article, filled with the latest research findings. You obviously do your homework! I have a Ph.D. physics, so I can often recognize lazy thinking when I see it. Yours is not. Keep up the excellent website, please!
Emma, Zac,
So the BMJ and researches from institutes at Lund University and University of Copenhagen are not qualified in you views?
believe it or not, I came up with a similar nutritional theory on (of) my own before I ever heard of a “paleo” diet.
I am not interested in anything “paleo”, or vegetarian or vegan, or atkins or anything that gives a single name to all the things we put in our mouths, but if there is anything that comes close to my views it is the “paleo”.
My progression was as follows: I first concluded that stories about bad “saturated fats” and “bad” cholesterol were bullshit.. I read a bunch of studies on these things from people who generally have no clue what they are talking about (epidemiologists, medics, “nutritionists” etc.) and get their info from the latest fda/cdc bulletin. Saturated fats burn clean, and why would we store body fat for “consumption” if they were so unhealthy? Half of your brain consists of cholesterol. Your cell walls are fat.. Eskimos eat incredible amounts of fat and have no heart disease..
I than concluded that it is utter bollocks that you should have I do not know how many meals per day.. I eat twice a day and I am fine.. I mean, you can not possibly think that we have to digest ALL the time?
I concluded that normal food is severely lacking in protein and fat.. one should eat more meat and eggs.. that is also “bad” according to the “theory”. How can it be bad? Fat and protein is what your body consists of for the most part.. (minus water), and fat is just so tasty..
btw. fats and proteins also elicit an insulin response, and so does the gut.. even more so than sugar..
You need some sugar in your diet, especially if you are training.. Personally, never had problems with milk, it is good for me.. I mean, if it is good for the babies.. cheese and butter too.
But the biggest revelation was how long I could go on for on a plate of beans and sausage, bacon and onions (with bread), eggs and bacon, fat cheese and similar foods without getting tired..
So I ll eat a steak whenever I can get some, eggs, and anything fatty and unhealthy like cheese and I feel GREAT.. and will not be hungry the whole day..
I guess there is no need to discuss fruit and veggies, everyone agrees those are good for you.. although I wouldnt over do the veggies you have to cook..
Although I have no problem wit pasta, bread or corn, I concluded that these can not have been our natural diet from an evolutionary standpoint cause they are a pain in the ass to prepare.. I mean really, there is some serious technological advancement in making those edible (ok, you can eat corn if you cook it). I still eat them, although not much.. I figure, if I am going through the trouble of eating in the first place, I might just eat something more substantial than that..
What else.. yeah, never experienced gluten or lactose intolerance (or heard of them until recently, or know anyone with it), and I guess it is just one of those health epidemics endemic to the USA. I also have never seen anyone “US fat” in Europe (unless american tourists)..
Seriously, there is something wrong with you guys over there, and I highly doubt it is down to “gluten”, “phytic acid”, or lectins..
My dad and uncles, and their friends were eating a typical village diet (milk, cheese, butter, eggs meat/ham/bacon/lard, veggies, some fruit, bread) for the most of their life and they were STRONG in a way most power lifters strive to be, without ever having done “strength training” (so I guess there is something to be said about volume) or “recovering” properly.
Italians that eat a lot of pasta do not look like Americans.. they look fine..
Point being, you are just eating too many chemicals and GMOs in your diet..
I just want to put another perspective in this thread. I love grains. When I eat them, I enjoy eating them. And I feel good from my food. I am in good health and always have been, no allergies, no digestive issues, good energy, slim and fit – middle aged but lookin good.
so I feel quite comfortable avoiding any diets that focus on cutting out entire food groups. I also can;t quite get with the way that foods are carved into these generic niches – like “fats ” “proteins’ and “carbs” like the should be considered entirely separately. It seems like food combining, and the way that one thing interacts with another, holistically, got left off the menu.
When I look for foods to eat, first I want what is minimally processed, non gmo, preferably organic and fresh and local as I can find. I don’t eat junk food, I don’t eat out too much, I don’t eat anything that has been made low fat, I don’t have a sweet tooth. I didn;t eat sweets much as a kid (strict parents lol) and grew up mostly eating vegetables and organic foods I think that helped a lot. Instead of focus on eliminating ingredients, I focus on what it is I do want to eat – which is a variety of delicious ingredients
I do eat meat, fish, dairy, lots of vegetables, legumes, fruits, seeds, nuts, grains, and some fermented items. I like a balance, and eat a mix of cooked and raw preparation choices. I like a variety in my food. As far as grains go, I don’t eat grains based meals every day but i do eat them as ingredients here and there, I may use some barley, or oats, teff, or once in a while wild rice. sometimes chick pea flour (a legume). I eat quinoa (a seed). I like kasha once in a while. And sometimes I eat a bowl of pasta! Yes, made with wheat. I know it’s been processed, but…Yum! Enjoying your food is pretty important – for happiness and for digestion.
I think our bodies were designed to eat many different types of food from various sources – including hunting sources and including foraging sources – so including meats, eggs, fishes, grains, seeds, nuts, sprouts, pollens, roots, and fruits, etc.
I do try to back up my choices with studies and reading information and other people’s experience – but mainly I trust what is right for me to eat from listening to my own body. And my foods may change too, as I age, I will have to see.
I think the anti grain thing is really blown out of proportion, sorry. People overdo it with one item. Look at a standard american diet – it doesn’t include the food group grains! It includes an overabundance of mainly corn and wheat (not to mention these are the most altered genetically and over processed and full of pesticides) – pretty much eating wheat every day, sometimes three times a day. That is not a balance! That is taking one or two limited ingredients and over consuming them. No wonder people get sick, gluten intolerance etc, they just overdosed their bodies for years on the same thing. That is like starving while overeating.
And corn is put in just about everything you can think of in the form of an additive, from some yogurts to tofu to cheese to iodized salt to vitamin pills to ‘natural flavors”. It might even be in a gas used to ripen vegetables for the store shelf. So we overeat these things until our bodies develop a sensitivity to it, and then blame the entire food group. Yay!
I don;t know why people imagine that our ancestors didn’t crush up seeds and grains to eat. I bet we also chewed on bark and branches and the tender shoots of grasses, as well as dug up quite a lot of tubers and legumes. I think we shook the wild wheat into our skirts and put it in a stew with berries and roots and animal bones.
Also, not everyone is intolerant to the same ingredients – Some people can tolerate more meat than others too. Some people can do fine on a vegetarian diet and others do not.
Limit things? Sure, But exclude all those beautiful ingredients from my cooking repertoire entirely? Sorry, not for me. I’ve never found that carbs in my diet posed a problem for me at all.
However, if you said it was best to avoid extra processing on the food or go as minimally processed as possible, I would agree entirely….
Hey Cara,
You sound like me a month ago, before trying the primal diet. 😛 Yes I was an absolute bread aficionado, someone who goes to artisan french bakeries and pays over $10 for a pound of fresh, warm bread.
I cannot argue with the cultural and gastronomial significance of bread. It’s a sacrifice, definitely, especially if one has been eating GOOD bread (99.5% percent of bread consumed in western societies is pretty dismal.)
That said, after giving it thought, as a little kid, I’ve never liked pastries and breads too much. In fact, what I was always enthusiastic about was what we can call paleo food.
And after a week of going without any grain, I find I don’t miss them at all. I don’t get a craving of “man I’d totally eat a baguette right now”. In fact, the thought of most pastries is just unappetizing to me.
So what I can recommend is before jumping to conclusions, try the grainfree diet for a month, and re-evaluate your standpoint after.
In reality, grains have only one, single thing going in their favor. They are cheap. Super cheap. It’s cheap to grow them, cheap to store them, cheap to transport them. They don’t need cooled warehouses, cooled or even closed trucks. You just pour them in a pile and put a roof above, storage has been taken care of.
That’s the alpha and omega of why we as a race are so obsessed about them. 🙂
Well I feel DUMB! It took a super cool comic with a link to lead me here, and now I feel like a total moron for not researching this SOONER.
I mean, the only reason I picked whole grain for my sandwiches recently was because EVERYONE was saying how healthy it is, and blah blah blah. Thought I’d give it a shot.
Never felt more horrible in my life, now that I think real hard about it. I was such a happy person before EVIL GRAINS!!!! Nothing but protein, veggies, nuts, and the occasional indulgence in the wrong type of food (chips, candy, soda, etc).
I want to rub it in my boyfriend’s face! Always griping about his weight and mood. He eats grains as much as I consume protein, and I consider myself (half jokingly) a carnivore!
Excuse me while I bake some fish and pull out the salad I bought just the other day. I’m going to celebrate with more meat and leafy goodness!!! 😀
Let me first say my diet since the late 70’s has been similar to what is explained in these articles, but I do eat grains and very little meat, especially red meat. What I mean by little is I do not consume meat daily and when I do it is usually fish, although I do eat other meats on occasion and when it’s read meat I prefer wild or bison and not fattened cattle most people eat. Wild meat is what primal man ate and is a much healthier meat.
You have to understand, primal man before the onset of hunting tools was a persistent hunter (ran for days running down prey, much like a wolf pack) and like wolfs he did not eat everyday not meat everyday. Only when they caught prey, which may take days and even weeks or they would scavenge dead prey from other predators if they found it. Point is meat was not a daily or even a weekly part of their diet.
About grains being bad for you because they are a seed and not to be consumed or digested. These articles recommend eating Nuts. Guess what, Nuts are seeds. You can’t denounce one item for being a seed and not the other.
Can you please explain to me how this diet is going to be sustainable for the growing and modernizing population on our planet? How many animals need to die for each person to eat each week? Given how long it takes to raise animals, how is this at all sustainable? Would it become a free-for-all on anything still living in the wild? If we all eat more eggs, how many more male chicks need to die as a result of that? We are not a small group chasing mammoths any more! As a yoga teacher, I aim to lighten my footprint by only occasionally eating ethically raised meat from adult animals. How can a person lightly ethically justify consuming animal foods as a sole source of their protein rather than a traditional vegan diet, with just an occasional consumption of meat?
Because a traditional ‘vegan’ diet makes me feel weak, sick, and brain dead. Gluten makes me very sick, I have an intolerance to large quantities of fructose, and also have trouble with legumes. Reverting to a primal diet of foods that could be hunted or gathered has restored my health and brought my vitality back. If more people grew their own vegetables and raised their own livestock, it would be far more sustainable. The world cannot continue to sustain the booming human population, whether a few people choose to live primally or not. I would much rather ‘live long and prosper’ than to exist miserably on a vegan diet.
Thank you Danielle, I agree with you completely. I’m a reformed vegetarian that came close to be being diabetic from that wonderful diet. There are a lot of people out there proselytizing about vegan or vegetarian diets and most of them aren’t old enough to have proven the point. I don’t believe that they will survive the diet for 20, 30 or 40 years. I personally know a vegan who after 30 years on the diet is now paleo after recovering from cancer and then being plagued with other numerous health problems. She was an “ethical” vegan who has decided it is better to sacrifice a cow or chicken once in a while and live to tell about it. Besides the argument continues to rage on both sides about whether raising animals “the correct way”, or destroying pasture lands to grow produce is worse for the environment. Animals raised the correct way fertilize the earth naturally. The majority of produce is grown in a manor that will defoliate and destroy the earth. The vegans think they know the answers but they refuse to listen to the other side of the story.
Hello! I have a question! I am researching all of this paleo stuff and I have a question. I have seen that coconut is highly recommended, but it has a higher % of Phylates than wheat flour. Can you help me understand why, then, phylates would make wheat flour bad?
http://www.thenourishinggourmet.com/2012/01/coconut-flour-and-phytic-acid-does-it-need-to-be-soaked.html
Seriously Jenny, I think it depends on which site your read! I have read the exact opposite!
Grains are a part of our modern agricultural heritage to keep a larger than normal population of humanity fed. Unfortunately, the cost to our health is insidious. Our nearest genetic relatives do not live on grain. They live on fruit, vegetation, and small animal protein. We were never intended to live on grains.
You’re crazy. Unless you’re intolerant, grains are fine. Rather than finding phobias where they don’t exist and creating completely antisocial dietary restrictions, focus your energy on meditation or your passions- or developing friendships or your career.
I have been on the paleo diet for a month and have actually gained weight and my digestion has not improved. I always feel hungry too. I think I am eating too many fats. Thoughts?
Hi maryellen. If you have liver or thyroid issues, you would want to eat lower amounts of protein and fat, according to Dr. Berg (he offers lots of great info on youtube as well as his own website).
When I followed Mark’s suggestion of removing grains and keeping sugars/carbs at a level to lose weight, I did see results as well as my skin cleared up. But some people need to tweak, because we’re not all exactly the same 🙂 So I hope you check out Dr. Berg’s vids, he also suggests natural things like diet and supplements.
This vid specifically comes to mind to address your question, just go to youtube and copy/paste or type it in –
The Body Type Diets – What to Eat for Each Type
I’m trying to keep an open mind and research grains. While the author makes some good points, what in the world does “income inequality” have to do with this? I smell an agenda, which makes the entire article suspect.
Thank you for this information. I think there is a lot of truth in what you write. BUT, there is something which always stops me from following ANY fanatical looking advice:) Now I knooow I’m European and will never get used to the American way of uh..’bam! wam!’ speaking. Maybe that’s where the fanatic note comes from, just a cultural difference. That aside, humans have lived long without grains and that was fine, but it is only after we started cultivating them that human population started to bloom. Now, I’m not saying that quantity is better then quality but it does say something about those ‘demonic’ grains;) Also I don’t believe that any diet based on ONE point of view is good for anyone, the more different things we conquor (foodwise!) the better it is for our existance, and our adaptation for the future…I even think that a completely ‘virgin’ body is not going to do well in a world like ours. Ofcoourse eating as healthy as possible is a great way to go, but a body is perfectly capable in dealing with the ocasional loaf of bread, even more then one daily. Alllll over the world, even for the most of primal cultures bread is a part of daily food, let me not even start about rice! Many generations of healthy individuals have been raised on that stuff and went on to have a great life. It’s about balance and variety.
Food should also be fun, like life. Not too serious, when you know you then can make choices and play with all kinds of food and ideas. Noone has eternal life and even the healthiest of people sometimes get snatched from this world early.
It’s all in mindfulness when it comes to nutrition and knowledge about how to prepare it. Our ancestors have learned long ago how to prepare all kind of foods so that toxicity (almost ALL food has some level of toxicity) doesn’t get too much free play…we lost the knowledge, but even then we continue to thrive in numbers. I guess what I really want to say is lighten up, baguette is really not the evil in the world. Like the brilliant comedian Steve Hughes said about saaaay secondary smoke:’ there are people from Chernobyl still alive for f* sake! ‘ They look weird but they’re still here!,’;)
I’m just addressing one point of what you said about “a body is perfectly capable in dealing with the ocasional loaf of bread”. If someone gets migraine headaches from eating grain, they can NOT eat an occasional loaf of bread and deal with it except with a high amount of pain. This is just one example of a testimony I’ve seen for people suffering with migraines.
I can’t recall the person’s name, but he has researched gluten very thoroughly and makes the claim that not even one person can digest it, so not even one person should be eating it. For EVERY person who eats it, whether they notice any symptoms or not, it coats the surface of the intestines preventing nutrient absorption, as well as causing inflammation for up to 3 months.
If you choose to eat grains, that’s your choice. The information should be available to everyone, so they know grains can and usually do cause health problems. In conventional medicine, it’s called informed consent. You know what bad things can happen, but you decide to go ahead with it.
Sorry, I will address another comment you made. You said, “Food should also be fun”. The sole, true purpose of food is to nourish and allow the body to grow and repair itself. People can get creative and still eat healthy, tasty real food. But they need to understand that so much of what is considered food, is not.
I’ve stayed away from gluten for a year and a half now. Several weeks ago, my thyroid doctor had to lower my medication dosage because he says my body is better metabolizing it since I’m off gluten. Yeah! Besides that, no more stomach issues or other skin related problems. Great article.
Great post and thread! Mark Sisson really knows his stuff, and when he sais jump I will ask how high! For a 60 year old man, he is super fit and I agree with his lifestyle choices for nutrition and fitness!
Before following this lifestyle I was a cyclist and ate plenty of “healthy” grains! Ezekial bread, whole wheat pasta, kashi cereal etc…..
I had plenty of energy but my even though at 44 years old I was lean (5’9″ 150 lbs) at the time I still had a little bit of fat around the waste, there was no getting rid of it.
Jump to now, abs a plenty….I do ab exercise only once a week, I really believe abs are made in the kitchen. After ditching grains and sugar my body transformed into a machine and at 45 yrs old Im now in my best shape ever!
I still ride bicycles but instead of long rides (3 hrs ish) I do shorter (2 hr) rides with intervals) and started lifting weights! The best nutritional choice Ive ever made was getting of grains and sugar, give Mark Sissons 21 day challenge a try! If it doesn’t work there’s plenty of grains, sugar and processed foods waiting for you to consume!
Lol. The reason this and most diets work for people is that they are almost universally restrictive against processed food & desserts. If you think that pre-historic humans had bacon, fresh fruit and olive oil available to them on a regular basis then you need to take some classes on history, botany, and logic. Throughout history mankind (like other animals) ate what was plentiful at the time, and over winters ate food that was very crudely preserved from spoilage (drying and salting). At times this includes a lot of vegetables and fresh fruits, but only in certain times of the year. They also in all likelihood did not eat 3 meals a day like we do in contemporary american culture. You internet desk jockeys are hilarious though, so keep up the good work!
Mark,
Great post and it is so true! I love rice, but it does not love me back. I avoid it as much as possible, but in the rare occasions when I eat rice I feel bloated and lethargic. People in general eat so much grains, bread, pasta etc and they wonder why they cannot lose weight! Eat your veggies, that is what I tell my clients that want to lose weight.
Ok, you guys are gunna hate me.
We are all going to die. We are all going to suffer in this life one way or another. But do you know what’s really going to make you suffer?? Stressing out on what is bad for you and going crazy on the computer spending hours researching grains and dairy ad everything else everybody believes is bad for you now days. The emfs an radiation you guys get from your phones and computers and the stress you have from being hypochondriatic is what’s going to shorten your life. Everybody has an agenda. Everybody has a “god” in their life whether they like it or not, somthing they live by. I refuse to make obsessive health rule over me, to make me a slave. I’ve been there bfore, and you know where that road leads to? Insanity. And all roads eventually lead to death anyway, why would you want to live like that? There is only one road that will prolong your life; nothing you eat can make you live forever, except the word of God, Jesus Christ. If you fill your life with Him, you WILL live forever, and if you have faith in Him, you can even eat grains and be cured of diseases. Everybody wants two things: to be happy and to be loved. Health will not fill that void, nor will knowledge nor will money, nor will all the vegetables in the world. Only your Creator can fill that void, and I PROMISE He will if you let Him.
Well, here’s the deal, LMB, you can eat unhealthy and make yourself sick but chances are the doctors will get hold of you and won’t let you go to your creator but will keep you alive with pills and eventually life support for so long you’ll be wishing you could die. I’ll happily fret over my diet and my health and will drop dead at some point without having to suffer those things.
Very interesting article – the best I have read on reasons not to eat grains. Research seems to indicate a link between a gluten free diet and improvements in eczema – another reason for eczema sufferers to stop eating grains. Thanks for the info
Perry, you need to wake up and smell the coffee…. Mark knows his stuff and proof is in the pudding (or in my case almond butter)
Your kidding yourself thinking grains are OK in the long run…. Pick up a copy of Taubes’ “Why we get fat”
If your working out 24/7 or one of the few that can eat anything you want to stay thin grains are fine, but maybe you’ll end up skinny fat at some point. Since I stopped eating grains and sugar I have lost body fat!
Perry, first of all Taubes is a very smart man! Maybe you should read “good calorie bad calorie”, or have you? I have been of sugar for about 7 years but since going off grains about 14 months ago I’ve noticed so many health benefits, and also some posotive changes with my physique including a 6 pack!
I used to have high triglycerides and low hdl…..not any more
Btw yur original post came across like you were bashing Mark Sisson!
Perry, I respect your stance on the subject. We will keep going back and forth but all I can tell you is at 45 years old I’m fitter them ever. 5’9″, 165 lbs and a 32 inch waist. I like being super fit and eating this way makes it easy for me to stay lean, and working out helps me build muscle. I will point you back to the original article posted by Mark Sisson himself… Fairwell
Lost 10 kgs (almost 22 pounds) in 8 weeks following an Atkins / Paleo Diet.
People! This is just advice at the end of it all you can do / eat whatever is it the F*** you want!
“Oh but wheat sustains our planet!” Give me a break! How about birth control people? That great paradox called dwarf wheat is making the poorest of us obese and the only people that look the way the poor used to look are vegatarians. One more thing, all you people defending the Japanese grain consumption/life span give me another break! They live a couple of years longer than the crap that is called an American diet and they’re your hero’s? A human is designed to live 120 years and other than an anomaly here and there we can do better.
Question is ground Flax Ok?
2nd Question are Dried Sunflower Seeds Ok?
Although I saw some valid points, the biased opinion of the author is rather invalidating, because that’s just a truth in science. Worse is the down right arrogance of the author – it’s disgusting. This piece may be overall valid but my vote is tone down the cockiness. I award you zero points.
Arnold Schwarzenegger ate bread and got huge. That’s good enough for me.
It’s hard to reach a definitive conclusion on this. On one hand, carbs and dairy seem to just be pushed on us because it’s profitable; grains and pasteurised dairy keep for a fairly long time, and can be mass produced. Fruits and vegetables? Only way we’ll feed a 350 million person country is if 90% of the vegetables use growth hormones and whatnot. This leads me to a position of it being hard to accept pro-grain arguments, because it seems like the type of thing where many studies for grains would be funded by companies/organisations that benefit from it.
I don’t find it unlikely that scientific studies done that go against the flow of what’s economically sound would get buried. It’s not uncommon for conflicting studies in health industries to be shut down. Just a decade ago cholesterol was still considered to be 100% bad for you, while now they’ve distinctively found two types of packages that transport cholesterol, and cholesterol intake has a minimal effect on it… and high blood sugar leads to heart disease more than cholesterol does. Not to mention high carb intake can lead to things like diabetes and whatnot.
On the other hand, very few of these paleo, all natural etc. diets provide much in the way of factual evidence. I mean, seriously, you linked to Gutsense? The guy claims that fibre is the last thing we want and we should basically be eating nothing but starch. He even says we should avoid coniferous vegetables (lettuce, broccoli etc.)
It’s hard to find the truth between a lack of scientific evidence and potentially very corrupt industries. I don’t think I’m going to find any answers unless I become a scientist and study phytates, gluten, etc. myself.
For now, I’m cutting out grains, minimising nuts, and not using toothpaste (lots of mixed opinions regarding fluoride as well). I’ll see how things go and recommend what I’ve learned based on experience… right now there’s just far too much misinformation for me to be able to tell someone they should be paleo or not, and it’s hard to take any articles I find on the matter seriously, especially blog posts.
I just got info about your book and web site I will be getting the book,I got another book 7 weeks ago and it talked about wheat and the side affects it has on our bodies so I decided to remove it from my diet and in 4 days with pills my blood suger was at 3,4 so I removed some of the pills,7 to 10 days my 10 year or better depression was gone my blood pressure is 124 over 79 not 150,160,170 or 180 over 80 plus, My fingers has bumps on them and they are smaller. i will talk to you after I have read the book thanks
What a load of old nonsense this post is! Here’s just 1 example: Insulin increases after eating meat as well as grain. Argument busted. Next!
People have eaten grains for centuries mostly in their whole form. I have my doubts about all breads and grains being bad for you. Like anything, moderation is the key and I still think that some grains are healthy and beneficial for the diet. I get extremely bored eating salads and I have a condition that limits the amount of meat I can eat. A little oat meal in the morning a couple times a week and some pasta one or twice a week are fine in my opinion unless you have celiac disease or some other condition. To completely eliminate something that has sustained humans for centuries does not make sense to me. It reminds of the early 80’s when red meat and eggs for terrible for you. We know now that is simply not the case and in fact they are a healthy part of the diet. I still believe that grains in moderation can be part of healthy and satisfying diet.
Amazing! Its truly amazing paragraph, I have got much
clear idea about from this paragraph.
I think meat, fish and chicken from good sources in moderation is healthy….. After all where do you get vitamin b12?
Thanks for this informative article. I am really thankful to learn these facts since the majority of us consume grain on a daily basis. However, I have decided to reduce my intake last year due to weight gain.
I want to get some suggestion from you on how to have a healthy diet. Can you please make a blog on this and let me know?
People in my country need to learn how to have a healthy life.
Lol you can’t read a study saying non-sick people have a certain chemical in their stool and that means gluten is bad for them
because, key point: those people aren’t sick, the gluten is not hurting them
I’m just saying
Being a fitness addict, I’ve never found the need to consume grains. Though my mother will sometimes cook some up, I would always wonder what we’re adapted to consume, and grains doesn’t seem to fit in the list of natural foods. While the government may support grains, they also support limiting the consumption of eggs due to cholesterol. So they’ve lost my trust long ago.
I can’t believe I didn’t think of this until now though. I don’t know how I didn’t see or bring it up yet.
Thank you for bringing this up Mark!!
Thank you so much for this article. My story with grains is pretty terrifying, and boy did I learn my lesson this summer. There are a lot of factors involved, budget, convenience, kids picky tastes, and just the simply fact I needed more carbs in my diet.
I’ve maintained my 50 pound weight loss by going low carb and exercising very lightly. I also incorporated a lot of raw food cuisine that my budget would allow anyways, and found myself never with an appetite.
To get ready for bikini season, I decided to exercise more, but had very little energy to do so, low carb, and low calorie, so I started adding my favorite carbs back into my eating plans. I thought exercising would help me build muscle, and eating carbs again, would give me more energy.
It did. I felt amazing. I started eating noodles and bagels and bread again. I thought I was being healthy, and I guess I felt OK. I noticed that on days I started the day out with a bagel, I would go on a feeding frenzy, as if I was never full.
My kids loved the bagels too. During this time, was the first time my daughter went to camp. Their lunches were filled with “healthy” whole grains, in addition to me feeding her 500 calories bagels. I thought it was OK. My kids are tall and slender and get plenty of exercise.
By the end of the summer, my daughter and I had GUTS! It didnt happen right away, but maybe over a three month period. I didnt get my bikini body, despite the fact that I started working out 1 hour a day, (when before, I would do a few sun salutations). Money was still a concern. I cut out the bagels.
then, I decided to go low calorie. I made myself a big batch of Seitan. I completely killed my appetite. I was consuming about 600 calories a day two days at a time. Usually when I “fast” just for a few days. I drop five pounds no problem.
I didnt want to fast this time, because I was running 1 hour a day. Guess what, at the end of this three day period, after eating seitan everyday for 3 days, my stomach got even BIGGER! And I gained five pounds, which felt more like water weight. My face was all bloated, and my skin, lost its glow. My digestion was all messed up too.
My daughter had a puffy face and always seemed to all of a sudden have allergies. She complained of fatigue all the time, and always had colds and coughs. it wasnt even flu season. In fact, looking back, she was practically sick the whole summer.
Two weeks before school started, I cut out all bread, and some pasta, and was heavy handed on the vegees. My daughter slimmed down a lot. I immediately cut out all wheat, and I lost 10 pounds within a week.
I would’ve never beleived that wheat was bad. Because of my own personal experience, I sought out answers, found this blog, and read the book “Wheat Belly”. I threw out my 50 pound bag of whole wheat flour that I got for $5 at the grocery store.
I encouraged my daughter to see the connection between her coveted love of mac and cheese and bagels, and she is now associating salads, with health. I am looking for a non-gluten type of pasta I can swap out for her mac and cheese.
In fact, I would go on to say, that eating wheat is way worse than consuming alcohol. At least alcohol, you can do so in moderation, wheat is just killer at first bite.
It is amazing how far behind the government suggestions are than research. Grains obviously aren’t what we used to think they were and it’s amazing that even though this article was written several years ago people are still mostly unaware how bad they really are for you.
Good article. Lots of views. bottom line if it works and feels good do it. I believe moderation is the key. I have tried a lot of different things, some work for me some don’t.
This article reminds me of the Zombie-food page:
http://www.13.waisays.com/zombie.htm
Here’s an excerpt:
“Wheat- and dairy products contain opioid peptides influencing endorphin receptors in the brain. These peptides are physically addictive, causing dependence, asthma, obesity, apathy, ignorance and numbness. The same goes for beta-carbolines from prepared food. To be sharp and investigative, you ought to consume neither dairy- nor wheat-products. You don’t need those ‘foods’ at all…All wheat-products, like bread, pasta, pizza, cookies, cake and pastries contain opioid peptides. The roman rulers already new that the people wouldn’t rise against them as long as they were entertained and fed bread…Because some wheat-opioids are extremely powerful, some schizophrenics can even be cured by not eating any wheat-products…”
This is absolutely ridiculous. He actually states scientific studies and findings, and writes them off as “not good enough,” without providing any scientific evidence to the contrary. Yes I’m sure muscles are more attractive to listen to than lab coats, but this, all of this, is simply unfounded and merely a man’s opinion. And half of it is false, proven with a simple google search using credible sources. Mark Sisson, stop leading an army down your ill proven trail of misconception. You’re a nice writer, but really bad at learning the whole truth. Go to school for nutrition and then get back to this. I think it’ll open your eyes to what’s really going on in the body.
You dont need the fibers? Studies show that paleo diet included more than 100g/day of fiber.
One thing I have noticed in Indian culture, is people with high intake of chapatis ( made of grains) had higher than normal weight, and they could reduce weight by decreasing chapati intake. May be grain has more carbs , that contributes to increased wwight. Offcourse it contains fibers, but it is not the only source of fiber.
http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2014/12/07/fasting-15-hours-day-wards-obesity-study-finds
I am a grain and meat person and I know that it would be difficult for me into going primal but I really want to. I am afraid that I’m going to have a stroke anytime now with my weight and lifestyle. I am very hopeful that I could find the answer to living healthy in this site.
The standard “Euro” breakfast here in Thailand is Muesli cereal with low fat yogurt. The ingredient list of course is written in Thai language (indecipherable). I asked the nice, obese man from Brazil (who is here for 3 months to cut weight) if it was sweet. Replying in the affirmative I informed him it was most likely sweetened with high fructose corn syrup & additionally the cereal carb load in the morning was detrimental to his goals. I received a blank stare in response. Next up to relate to him the hormonal response of food in general and the importance of protein and fat. I left with the comment, no sugar, no dairy, no grains.
What about articles like those from the Harvard School of Public Health that talk about longevity experienced by those consuming whole grains and the other health benefits? Here is an example of one such article:
http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/nutritionsource/whole-grains/
Hi Mark,
Great article on grains. I was wondering whether white jasmine rice or sometimes known as Thai Fragrant rice is considered a bad grain? I am Singaporean Chinese and we eat rice with our meals sometimes both lunch and dinner, this applies to many people in other countries in Asia too. It seems that there aren’t as many issues related to diet in Asian countries so I was wondering what your thoughts are on white rice.
It would be great to hear from the others as well!
Cheers,
Sue
I have no problem with eliminating processed grains, and even making sure whole grains are consumed in reasonable quantity. But to demonize the entire category? You lost me.
Also, nothing on the ethical or environmental impacts of meat. This just cannot be ignored in any rational discussion regarding diet. Telling people to eat more meat just seems irresponsible to me. You honestly believe primal man consumed meat twice a day? Hunting is a time consuming, exhausting, and often fruitless task. Plants, seeds, and insects had to make up the bulk. I don’t care if the meat is lean or not, buying commercially raised meat has nothing to do with primal eating. Those people did not practice animal husbandry.
I seldom create comments, however i did some
searching and wound up here Why Grains Are Unhealthy |
Mark’s Daily Apple. And I actually do have a couple of questions for you if it’s allright.
Is it simply me or does it look like some
of these remarks come across like written by brain dead visitors?
😛 And, if you are writing on additional sites, I would like
to follow anything new you have to post. Could you list of all of all your communal pages
like your linkedin profile, Facebook page or twitter feed?
Grass-fed beef and free-range chicken do not mess with the environment nearly so much. When they talk about the water needed for cattle, feed lot cattle are quite damaging because the only way they get water is from drinking actual water. They are not getting any water from the grass which is freely available. In any case, I admire the moral leanings of vegetarians. Can I be a pesco-lacto-ovo-chick-atarian?
Since we all agree that the seeds of grasses are bad for us, what about fruit or vegetable seeds (apple, peppers…)?
Discovered MDA in 2010 and quit grains. So thanks for that. But I’ve started to incorporate a cheat day ala Four Hour Body which ends up being Burger and beer… And man the next day you just notice that you HARMED your body. The toilet straight after the morning coffee and repeat a few times. hahaha… needless to say no more cheat day…
What about Spelt? It that a viable alternative? My wife and I have become pretty clean but Pasta is still one of my favourite dishes. We only eat spelt.
Any thoughts?
Hey nothing is wrong with dry goods – grains and beans. It’s a good back up when you have no money, fresh meat or veggies. .. just don’t stuff tie guts with it. ..
Hey nothing is wrong with dry goods – grains and beans. It’s a good back up when you have no money, fresh meat or veggies. .. just don’t stuff your guts with it. ..
I read farmers spray roundup on all their wheat to force the slow growing green ones to come to seed so all can be harvested and not wasted, and we ingest this roundup when we eat the grain products. Something to think about. Someone needs to experiment with organic flour, and then just with the ancient grains, organic of course. Its very hard to give up bread – its bloody everywhere! But I know how I feel when I don’t have grains (far better than when I eat em)
I really don’t agree with the idea that calorie types or certain foods, except those synthetic processed ones, are the problem but rather it is about knowing intimately one’s body and what works and then following sensible eating habits.
I’ve been through many interpretations of some diets like low carb, and even more crazy restrictive ones and It just feels different to sit with friends and family who just eat without a care whatever is served on the table. They may not be eating optimally but they don’t think much about it, get by and live day in and day out.
As for me I now eat anything available without reservation but focusing on whole, unprocessed foods as possible with the occasional feast. I also do 2 24 hour fasts twice a week and currently training for a mountain marathon.
All the great people I aspire and look up to also don’t give much thought about what they eat:
Pythagoras – Was known to not consume any form of meat products and instruct his followers to do the same.
Jesus – He did eat bread, and fish but I think he and his followers just ate whatever food was available or offered to them.
Buddha – Though many believed that buddhism pushes for veganism since it tries to respect all forms of life. The buddha himself just begged for food and ate what ever was given to him.
Gandhi – Was a vegetarian but did ate some meat in and even acknowledged it’s benefits. “We should eat to live and work.”
Winston Churchill – It is well known he had a penchant for food, alcohol, and smoke and yet lived to the ripe old age of 90 years old and, at the same time, making a tremendous impact on world history.
Steven Wilson – Man, I searched the net for some tidbits of his favorite foods and absolutely nothing, don’t know what he eats but what ever it is it’s got to be good since creative and challenging music just oozes out from him.
Manny Pacquiao – eats anything from oats, white rice, tinola (native chicken stew) to pochero.
Killian Jornet – The world’s most dominant ultra trail and mountain runner’s favorite food is chocolate particularly nutella and pizza. Also he has stated he doesn’t partake of meat that much.
Ueli Steck – The swiss speed climbing power house just eats a typical swiss diet but focuses on as natural foods as possible. This does mean lots of bread and cheese.
The point of all these is that the important thing about diet is all about making as much natural choices with what is easily available to the point that we don’t have to think about it and focus on living to our fullest potential and contribute something that is more than the total food and calories we consumed in this life time.
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Hi Mark – great article. For those people who really need a few grains or are trying to cut back and switching to different grain sources while they ween off, what grains would you suggest during this process? Obviously no wheat/gluten, white rice, etc..
My first thought is quinoa and wild rice during this transition. Your thoughts?
Bread is by far one of my biggest weaknesses. But I think cutting out the grain completely and eating more salad is the way to go! Thanks for the information.
Fantastic guide, especially the points about fiber – there’s plenty in the fruits and veggies without needing all of that extra insoluble fiber from grain.
Now if I can just persuade my husband to agree with me (I’ll be showing him this asap!) 🙂
Your article makes good points. However, not all grains are created equal. Some are ok to eat while others are not so good. Some people have messed up digestive systems, not from eating grains…but from eating other processed garbage(GMO’s, HFCS, etc…) . Then when they do eat something high in fiber or nutritious, their body lacks the proper enzymes and probiotics to process it properly. I do agree that if grains are causing one a problem, then theirs no harm in avoiding them.
Its very lovely to see that grains could also be unhealthy and i learn so much reading this info.
My coffee maker broke down a few days ago, and I have not had any coffee, oh, for about four days. How interesting that I no longer have “the runs”, I no longer have to leave my position at work every 20 minutes to use the restroom. I still eat bread with NO PROBLEM, but that doesn’t mean I’m unaffected by it. Once I get used to not having coffee and my daily 3 PM diet coke, no longer crave it or miss it, then I’ll ditch the bread…..maybe I can reverse these age spots…..I think it is possible.
I think the evidence is overwhelming, especially from studies on carb restricted diets, that the majority of people who are overweight, diabetic, etc. would do best by avoiding or minimizing grains.
Look back at pictures 60-70 years ago at how thin people were. Look, even at 1960-ish movies, or think of your high school gym class (if you’re older) at the people who were considered “the fat guy/kid” and they wouldn’t even be considered very pudgy now. Something’s happened. Since 1980’s when they told us fat/eggs/butter were unhealthy, the food manufacturers responded by giving us thousands of new “food products”. They also realized, I’m sure to their glee, that they could take 27 cents worth of wheat and make it into a $4.99 box of cereal. (Grains are much more profitable than raising/selling broccoli). The rise in obesity/diabetes/cancer has corresponded with that big change in our diets. That the gov’t. subsidizes farmers to grow corn and wheat (but not broccoli or asparagus) and answers to Big Agra, Big Food, and Big Pharma , should give anybody a healthy dose of suspicion about what they are telling us.
Wheat and sugar were not consumed in any significant quantities for a million years while mankind evolved. That’s a good enough reason by itself.
(Oh, and it works for me…slim and excellent health at 53 even with menopause and sedentary job/hobbies.)
I always get the “you need the B vitamins” from the grains (mostly talking about brown rice). I’m not sure that’s true.
MDA hypothesis on grains mostly confirmed on N=1 experiment. Normally wheat will fatten me like a pig. Based on the DuckDodgers hypothesis of grain fortification, I sourced some organic non bleached non fortified white flour. Made bread, cookies, pies, pizza with it. No negative reaction, i felt great, even the cookies which had plenty of sugar had no effect. Following that I sourced some 100% sprouted whole grain bread (no fillers, conditioners, sugars, preservatives, etc) from a local bakery and started eating it daily with sandwiches for lunch. No effect on weight or hunger, it was actually filling and satisfying. However my number two’s became not pleasant and I started forming cavities and bad breath. When I stopped eating the whole grain bread my halitosis disappeared and cavities ceased.
Conclusions:
1) Fortified, bleached and adulterated white flour is definitely is a huge problem.
2) Non adulterated white flour probably not much of an issue (see Italy, France) if rest of diet is good.
3) Whole grains are a problem for general health (if not weight wise) which explains why humans ditched whole wheat flour in the first place when white flour became available, probably due to the anti-nutrients that are removed with the bran.
4) It appears that I have no bad reaction to gluten. Other issues with wheat seem to be the problem.
5) Best to avoid wheat in general and use organic non-bleached flour at home if you do.
Cheers.
On grains and insoluables, I started a low carb diet 1/1/15 and lost 35 lbs., and still on it. Problem is, I wasn’t eating any grains, no bread, rice, pizza, no sugar, no cereal, nothing with a grain base. The diet worked fine, but I had diarrhea for months. Just eating a lot of veggies and fruits didn’t seem to make any difference. So my GI doctor tried a few things, did some diagnostics, found nothing out of the ordinary (except that I had chronic diarrhea). He put me on Metamucil 2x a day. After a few days of that, things were back to normal, well, sort of. Plus I eat some homemade whole wheat bread every day or every other day in small amounts. So at least in my case I think having some fiber is necessary to keep things moving, but not moving too fast in my case. So has anyone reading this had the same issue? Have you solved it without having to take Metamucil 2x a day? This seems to be working but I don’t want to have to take Metamucil for the rest of my life.
I just came across this discussion. I agree with you spatin. I also recently reintroduced quality grains in small amounts to my diet and it has worked wonders on keeping things moving and intact, no diarrhea. I make avocado toast with a whole grain bread that I purchase from a local farmer that is awesome. You will never need Metamucil again.
NO- LET THIS BE THE LAST WORD PLEASE MARK- especially the last sentence- QUOTE
“Why Soak or Sprout?
Soaking any seed begins the processes of germination and fermentation, which have major benefits for the human diet:
•makes their minerals more available for absorption (by unlocking them from phytic acid). This includes not only the minerals in the grain, but other dietary minerals as well.
•breaks down the starches into shorter-chain vegetable starches and sugars;
•breaks down some of the proteins into peptides and amino acids;
•forms new proteins, vitamins, and other active components of the living plant.
But perhaps the most important benefit of sprouting is that turns the grain, legume, nut or seed into a vegetable! “
Despite this fact, there has not been an observed increase in mass shootings
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Awesome and I’m often amazed at how some people write a damn good article like this 🙂 I am gonna follow this and strictly no to grains!
Even though All of the data says that grains are not that healthy it still taste really awesome. 🙂
I have been following a paleo diet for a few years now, but I was watching a show with Michael Pollan, the author of Omnivore’s Dilemma, and supposedly vegetarian diets are the healthiest. In fact, Seventh Day Adventists, who follow strict vegetarian diets, are supposedly one of the healthiest, longest living groups of folks around. According to Pollan, too much meat is a bad thing, so I’m just curious to know how a Paleo expert might respond to that. I’ve also read that too much meat can cause inflammation and, as someone with an autoimmune condition, inflammation is something I’m trying to avoid.
I guess I’m just curious then about entire civilizations that survived on grains like rice? What about the Asian and Middle Eastern countries who have some of the “healthiest” populations, but have diets primarily consisting of rice or quinoa or (insert “good” grain here)? Research like “The China Study” that alleges humans remove ALL ANIMAL sources…there’s just so much information out there and I am trying to find moderation, but it all starts to sound so terrifying that I begin to fear eating anything.
Awesome article! You are so right, grains have no place in my diet anymore, ever since I kicked them out I’ve been feeling terrific!
What about oat-water? I’ve heard about it. Does not consuming the oats themselves, but making this oat-water thing make using these things any better? They’e all over the damn place, and i’m vegan.
Yep, grains aren’t needed for good health. There’s nothing in grains that you can’t get from something else.
We love this article as it’s always a challenge to help folks understand why grains are unhealthy, especially when our food pyramid shows such an emphasis on whole grains. We’ll definitely be sharing this with our followers! And one of our favorite tips to help our members: make 50% – 70% of your plate VEGGIES!
We also need to frame the conversation of no grains vs some grains in the context of our training goals. The research is clear on longevity, a low grain, low carb diet is preferred but when performance or physique goals are in the mix, things clearly need to change. Personally on “off” days, I do fine with less than 100 grams of carbohydrates from rice and potatoes but on days that I train, I’ve got to go up to 300 grams plus.
Always choose organic, non-genetically modified grains to ensure you are receiving the optimal nutritional benefit packed.
Read about it here: http://www.businessinsider.com/the-grains-with-the-most-nutrition-2016-4
https://www.gpawholefoods.com.au/choice/are-grains-really-the-bad-guys-of-nutrition/402“
ALL grains contain gluten btw. Let’s not forget about the association with the wheat glutens and zonulin in non-Celiacs too!
Hey Mark
Very nice thanks to share i am not aware of this. Helpful with me.
This is a great resource article to send to clients. It’s be so “ingrained” in people that grains are healthy (sorry, I couldn’t resist that one!).
Idea is quite impressive. We have been surviving on grains only like whole grains etc and we neglect the other minerals and vitamins.
I have got to say that I wan’t very aware of that, and when the kids are hungry after the school, I didn’t think of it too much. Thanks for this info, will check myself as soon as possible.
Hey I am a big fan but My medical school professor says your claims about gluten are complete BS.
A good read and especially useful for those following a primal lifestyle.
I do however consider grains to be a supportive staple of many cultures the world over – for people who have and still do thrive off grains. Its true, you can get what you need nutrient wise from other plant sources, BUT why avoid that source if it is readily available, well tolerated by many, cheap and can be stored, unlike produce and meat which has a limited shelf life in comparison. The antinutrirnts aren’t a problem if you soak and sprout grains. Phytic acid is broken down, bioavailability of nutrients increases as does the nutrient content. You need Employ some human intervention to elicit these changes, but the same could be said for kefir – humans need intervene to produce a richer spectrum of nutrients. No doubt grains are bad for some – genetics, microbiota, weakened digestion, refining, preparation; for others they can be incredibly beneficial protecting against heart disease, even diabetes – it all depends on who is eating them!
http://news.nationalpost.com/health/gluten-free-diets-adopted-by-rising-number-of-consumers-enhance-risk-of-type-2-diabetes-harvard-study
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/03/170309120626.htm
According to this recent study, this article isn’t right. Anyone care to shed some light?
Even the men of the cave (Paleolithic Suiperior) knew that eating them guaranteed ENERGY for hunting
http://www.pnas.org/content/113/37/10298.full
Mark you will have to add some grains to your diet
http://www.pnas.org/content/113/37/10298.ful
I don’t believe that it has ever been acceptable for someone to analyze an entire food group, having no medical knowledge, and relying on subjective observation. You might consider asking your doctor, as I am sure that they will tell you differently. (After all, they went to school for many years to be able to assert their opinions).
Mark Sisson, you are absolutely right. because to lead our engine needs several kinds of nutritional elements that can”t carry only grain. So that only cereal diet is risky to distribute others essential component.
Thank you for your article! I like the way it’s written in so reasonable way. I was thinking about adjusting my diet so it would contain less gluten for a long time, but never have been brave enough to do so. Maybe it’s time for me to change it 🙂
I am a registered dietitian nutritionist. With a variety of advanced degrees. I find it incredibly frustrating that the reality of grains, flours, breads, etc. are hidden from the public. I teach nutrition at the college level, and dietetic students are STILL being told “carbohydrates are our preferred fuel” What did gatherers eat?? Grasses, shoots, berries…yes much of what was carbohydrate. NONE of what was grain. How do we dig up the “dirt” on where this myth comes from?
I never knew that Grains are unhealthy, my friend said me once he avoids eating breads and related food because of Gluten issue. Thanks for highlighting a nice info on this.
Not trolling, but really just confused.
What about:
– https://youtu.be/BMOjVYgYaG8
– https://youtu.be/d5wfMNNr3ak
Thanks for further education or counter-balancing insights MDA/all.
Well as a newby I think all these e-mails just show that we are all different. I have found over a trial period of three years or longer the a small amount of bread improves my mental and visual acuity. However that is bread eaten with fat or protein and not sugar. I fought against this for over or years as I was brainwashed about grains being ‘poison’/.For me they are not …..my body likes them in small amounts and apart from that nothing approaches the texture of good bread. This black or white approach to nutrition is not helpful as one can always find exceptions to any rule. Assess honestly how you feel after eating a certain food, not how you feel you should feel. Give it a fair trial and go with the results. Mark is a good guide but not the absolute last word. Fresh,organic food in moderation seems a sensible approach. from whatever angle.
Great article. Why are there so many question marks throughout it though? When I see this article looks as if there are question marks where apostrophes go and unnecessary punctuations. Is it the browser I’m using or is that how it was written?
I just know that every time that I eat a piece of bread I don’t go to the toilet, all my life I’ve been having this problem. Bread, white or brown, it doesn’t matter, it always causes me constipation. I feel happy to have found this website becase normally everybody talks very well about cereals. Thanks
Why do people that live in Blue zones live long healthy lives eating grains?
Think a lot of those people eat gluten free grains.
A lot do too. Common factor, sun shine? Outdoor lifestyle? Low pollution? Self sufficient?
I would agree about lowering on grains (because of the carbs), but not stop eating it or calling them unhealthy!! Its totally not fair to say you don’t need fibers. Being a food & nutrition researcher myself, I would not agree with the details you have provided about fiber. Please go to Google scholar and just check on dietary fiber and their health effects. Not just that, there is an immensely growing PROVEN research that shows the benefits of fiber. Balance is the key to good diet. And grains are totally a part of that balance.
I agree yet I have a hard time avoiding them being a triathelete, HELP
Long grain organic white rice
whats your thought on Einkorn?
I think gluten is a lectin both from the same family of proteins. But lectins are not all gluten.
Interesting. My ibs has been fine all week, then I ate a bowl of oatmeal yesterday. Like clockwork, 24 hours later, my symptoms came back. I am also beginning to believe that insoluble fiber is the enemy of the digestive system. Apples also reek havoc on my system. Maybe I’ll stick to chicken, white rice (I know, it’s a grain, but fiberless and innocuous to me), and starchy vegitables.
With all due respect to the diet ideologues on both sides of the isle your both laughably wrong. Because the fact is your body needs only protein, vitamins, minerals water and essential fatty acids. It does not need meat, it does not need vegetables, it does not need grains or frankly any other specific food as they are mere carriers of the essential nutrients. So consider the following analogy. Two tribes collect water from the same well. The water is clean and satisfying. One tribe uses a glass container to collect the water and the other uses a lead container. Early on both tribes are well hydrated and thrive. Unfortunately, over time the traces of the lead container leaches into the water and slowly poisons the tribe using that container. So spare us with early man ate this or that as early man was lucky to survive 40 years of life, so where exactly is the long term studies regarding the impact of the random, hunter gathering they performed. Fact is they would try and eat anything they could. Sprouted grains is a better nutrient carrier than any industrial meat product and better than most vegetables in terms of breadth of nutrients. The negative impacts of Ketogenic diets is well known and reflected in the moderating instructions from proponents who have a conscience. There is no confusion that a Plant based diet along with moderate sprouted grains, <10% grass fed (100%) or pasture raised chicken and olive, coconut, avocado or seed based oils is superior based on science not some ideology which starts with a desired answer and backs into the questions and manufactures answers. Enough with the superficial processed grains nonsense…as it is no less representative of a plant based diet than industrial grain fed meat is.
That’s just the thing. Industrial meat is bad.
Grass-fed organic meat, or that from wild game, is vastly superior. If it is eaten raw, all the better because it contains more nutrients than any plant, including sprouts. Especially so with certain organs.
It strikes me that in this article you make an obvious reasons for not eating meat. That is that animals come equipped for defense. If that means they don’t want to be eaten, then along with grains, we should leave it out of our diet.
in fact, you make a very good case for going fruitarian.
Just saying.
That isn’t a valid point of view. Nothing *wants* to be eaten. Life is full of suffering and it can’t be avoided.
Lions don’t care about what some gazelle might think and neither should humans.
There is nothing that supports fruitarianism. Humans can digest fresh raw meat better than anything else. It contains more nutrients than any plant, including vitamin C.
Industrial meat, on the other hand, that’s to be avoided.
Here’s my question.
If grains are so bad, then why were the Roman legions so effective? They ate mostly grains in the form of porridge, flat bread, and hard tack. Granted, they did eat eggs, cheese, fruit, vegetables, and meat when they could find it. That doesn’t change the fact that they could march for 30 miles, set up a small fortress, then fight if they needed to. They also build roads and various structures.
All of this was done with heavy grain consumption. I know that the grains were generally soaked beforehand, which is known to make grains easier to digest.
It has been said that their “barbaric” enemies would often tire easily during battle. In particular, the Germanic, Celtic, and Thracian peoples were known for eating lots of meat and some vegetables.
I would like to know your thoughts on this subject.
Does this include rice?
Wow. why do these comments read like the youtube comments section? Alot of vitriol and hard-headedness. You’ll never change your health with that attitude. How about try the diet for a month and then comment about how supposedly bad it is?
thank you love your articles, I always translate them to my group xox
Can we please know who you are and what your qualifications are? Are you qualified to make these statements or is itall guesswork? Where are the studies that these facts are derived from?
I suspect you may be in to something but would like proof.
Thanks.