May 22 2008

Raw Meat

By Worker Bee
96 Comments

Raw MeatIt’s about the most primal, albeit not necessarily attractive, image you can conjure: dirty, disheveled, muscular cavepeople in rough animal skins and furs partaking of the uncooked prize from the latest hunting endeavor (or perhaps another predator’s leftovers). Fast forward to today. Our more “civilized,” better dressed, contemporary selves follow the maître d’ and sit down to intricately painted dinnerware and linen napkins to partake of, you guessed it, raw meat. And then pay big bucks for it, to boot. Sushi, steak tartare, carpaccio: they’re considered delicacies of sorts. And while sushi has caught on in the last twenty years or so, Saveur still calls steak tartare a “forbidden pleasure.”

Steak Tartare

For some of us, raw meat of some variety is regular fare. For others, well, it just gives us the willies. Our culture, among the biggest meat lovers, seems to have the hardest time envisioning it in its more “natural” state. We have grills the size of Texas, after all. The closest we usually get to the primal side is using a spit. But raw meat in some form or another has a hold on virtually every other culture. Raw fish dishes, in particular, are common in many Asian cultures. A number of Middle Eastern cultures enjoy recipes with raw goat meat. Inuit cultures eat raw fish and reindeer as a regular and primary part of their diet.

Proponents of raw meat claim that any kind of cooking reduces the healthfulness of meat. And then there’s the issue of cooking-associated toxins like HCAs and AGEs. Yet, let’s face it. We don’t live in primal times. Conventionally raised and mass processed meats carry a higher risk of bacterial contamination (think E. coli and salmonella among others), and that’s serious business.

But not all meats carry the same threat. Those who eat raw meat as a regular part of their diets often seek out small farms and game butchers to ensure healthier conditions and the likelihood of healthier meats to begin with. Sushi connoisseurs choose restaurants that have strict “sushi grade” standards for their fish. The FDA doesn’t regulate that label, but it does require that all raw fish other than tuna be frozen at temperatures cold enough to kill parasites. Some chefs freeze the meat to 70 degrees below zero and claim there’s no detectable difference in taste or texture.

Sushi

Harriet V. Kuhnlein, Professor of Human Nutrition at the Centre for Indigenous Peoples’ Nutrition and Environment at McGill University in Montreal believes that raw meat is a healthy option, provided it’s clean: “Every time you process or cook something — anything — you are likely to be losing nutrients at every step. As long as this meat is still microbiologically safe, it is at its best raw or frozen fresh.”

There are a few groups who are strongly advised against eating raw or undercooked meats: pregnant women or those trying to conceive, young children, “the elderly” (not our word), patients receiving chemotherapy or those who are taking immunosuppressant medications, and people with weakened immune systems.

So, what to do if you’re interested in giving raw meat a try? Source matters. We suggest you shop carefully. Ideally, you should know the farmer and the processor. When going raw, cleaner is even more important. Put your meat in deep freeze if you want to have that added peace of mind about parasites. (Freezing is acceptable to most raw foodies, but they do contend that freezing kills the natural enzymes of foods.)

Primal Fusion

Consider using alcohol based dips and especially marinades (port wine, vodka, etc.) that may help kill bacteria. Citrus based marinades are thought to be somewhat helpful in this regard, but don’t count on them to do as much as a good ounce of alcohol. Better to mix the two if your taste calls for it. Finally, if the head is willing but the stomach is weak, try searing the meat and leaving the middle uncooked. Add a flavorful dip, and you’ve got yourself the best of the primal and contemporary in one tasty tidbit. We’ll call it primal fusion.

So, what do you think of raw meat? Thoughts, questions, recipes, raves?

jelleprins, Alexandre Chang, obscene pickle, ulterior epicure Flickr Photos (CC)

Further Reading:

Safe Cooking Temperatures

How to Eat Enough Protein

Dear Mark: Pondering Protein

Hunting Ethics

Subscribe to Mark’s Daily Apple feeds

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96 thoughts on “Raw Meat”

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  1. It is so hard to find good steak tartare in the US anymore. Most trendy places have switched to tuna tartare or some other permutation…but it just ain’t even close.

    1. Im really intriqued by the raw diet especially since I have developed so many digestive problems in the past few years and food intolerances.

      The Paleo diet seems to help the most, but Im still having issues.
      My question is I tried raw liver, by blending it into a smoothie a few times and every time I always feel nauseous for 2 hours after….and then fine afterwards, but those 2 hours are not fun….no diarrhea just nauseous.

      also I order from US meats…organic and pasture raised.

      Any thoughts would be appreciated!

      1. I get raw grassfed beef liver and heart and slice them finely. I soak them in my home-brewed kefir, leave them overnight on counter to begin fermenting a little. Then, I refrigerate and it lasts indefinitely. Before eating a slice, I add some more kefir (the best probiotic around). Nothing I’ve ever eaten that’s had kefir added has ever made me sick and I know that its probiotics are neutralizing any harmful bacteria. Anyway, after a week or so, I start to see some bubbles, which means that some alcohol is forming in the ferment, which helps preserve it further. I love the sliced kefir-fermented beef heart. It smells a little but I know what it is and think of it as the kefir sort of “cooking” the meat but leaving it in its raw consistency. I eat both that and the liver and feed both to my granddaughter since she’s been seven months old. It gives her so much energy and the B-12 in the “raw” meat provides me with a needed vitamin to combat depression. It is her favorite food. I highly recommend it. If you want more information, just reply to me.

        1. Thank you. It’s exactly what I’m looking for. i got Pneumonia when I was a baby and for my whole life have been dealing with a systemic yeast infection. I’ve worked with kefir before, but I moved, and don’t see it in the freezer. Tomorrow is the Torrance Farmer’s market and I can get some at the Organic Pasture booth. Would love to see your receipe.

        2. Hi Cynthia, this is very interesting to me as I have been looking into the “primal” way of eating.. raw meat.. raw dairy.. would love to gain some knowledge from someone that has experienced eating this way over a long period of time!

  2. So can the human body process all types of raw (fresh, clean) meat–pork, chicken, rabbit, etc.?

    1. Yep!
      I’ve eaten elk, pork, boar, moose, beef, oysters, raw organs, raw dairy, you name it. Fresh and frozen, but I prefer fresh. Except chicken, haha. I always thought chicken was gross to eat, and I love my pet chickens. Having pet chickens, I realized just how gross they really were.

  3. I’ve recently switched to raw eggs for breakfast. Can’t beat the prep time. Would love to eat raw meat more often, for the convenience alone.

    It’s difficult to get a feel for the real risks because there is so much overblown anti-bacterial nonsense going on these days.

    1. Yes, I have been eating raw meats of all kind along with raw eggs and dairy for 5 yrs. Never any ill effects….quite the opposite! Big time energy and optimal health! I have loads of great recipes and all of the campers that come here get somewhat converted in to raw meat lovers! =) “Rawk on” Retro-Raw

      1. Hey,
        If you’d be so gracious as to pass on a few of your favourite marinades/sauces/recipes for raw meat (beef, pork, fish)
        it would be very much appreciated!
        I realize you posted this two years ago haha thanks regardless

        Alec
        (sublime_dointime@hotmail.com)

    2. Hi Mark, I’m just getting started with eating raw. I need to get clear on how to prepare the meat correctly so that I can eliminate any possible pathogens and parasites. Could you refer me to a detailed resource for preparing the meat before eating (marinades used, times to let meat marinade, etc.)? Much appreciated!

  4. I would love to try raw steak or fish, provided it was prepared in some way. I don’t know if I could just tear it off the bone raw… And I still feel squicky about raw chicken or other birds, but I understand that it’s due to socialization.

    I’ve been trying to get more comfortable with dealing with meats, really tearing a chicken carcass apart to get everything or crockpotting bone-in meat instead of deboned. I used to live on ramen, and let my DH cook any meat for the most part. But awhile ago I realized that I would have to get over the squicky feelings and just deal with it. If everyone else through all of history could do it, then so can I.

    Sometimes I still go “yeugh” at certain things, but when I consider how the meat I used to eat was processed for me (fast food & packaged stuff) I realize that it’s way less disgusting to handle it myself.

    Sorry to tangent, the point is that mentally, yes, I do want to eat raw meat. But I think I need to first get handle on some of the more basic stuff to get to that point.

    1. I did alot of research on eating raw steak, but i only found speculations from people who havent tried it. Literally ten minutes ago i opened a package of lean steak for pan frying i got from the market, sprinkled some tasty spices on it and ate about four medium size slices, it tasted great. we’ll see how i feel tommorow lol

      1. Good for you Shaun! it takes courage to try raw meat for the first time. Please keep us informed.

        Kind regards,

        Steve H

        1. Shaun,

          :~)

          I forgot to ask…are you supplementing with an omega-3 rich source (such as cod liver oil), to address the omega-6 to omega-3 imbalance? That is a good idea if you are eating non-grass fed raw meat. In fact is a good idea regardless of the origins of your meat (and fish) intake.

          Kind regards,

          Steve

      2. i’ve been eating raw meats(only chicken and beef) and i’ve never gotten sick from it. but i’ve also been doing so since i was a kid, so my body is used to it, if you’re a first time eater, chances are you might get sick, or you also may be unlucky enough to get a bit of meat that’s infected(paratie, bactieria, virus, etc, people will say you will get sick, but that just shows that they too have fallen prey to the FDA’s lies

        1. I have also been eating raw meat since I was a kid. I remember sneaking it when my mom was cooking; rabbit, lamb, beef, pork, etc. Never could stomach raw chicken.. Texture is too much like boogers for me, but like you, I have never gotten sick from it.. Quite the opposite, it enhances my mood tenfold, gives me lasting energy, and has helped maintain a good healthy weight. I would love to see the social stigma associated with eating raw meat vanish, but until that happens, I will continue NOT telling my partner what I’ve consumed for the day :p

        2. I do have a question I have been eating raw meat on and off for 6 months, never got sick, but I do get dark circles under my eyes after i eat it??? And it will go away after a day or two? any input anyone?

  5. FRESH (not frozen and thawed) raw tuna. Maguro. Mmmmm. Flesh that melts in your mouth. Mmmmm.

  6. I did try sushi and sashimi when we lived in Japan, but didn’t care for the texture.

    I used to like my steaks medium. Now I prefer them almost rare, so much more flavor and so tender!

    Don’t think I can manage uncooked chicken!

  7. Thanks for the article! I’m regular raw meat/eggs/salmon eater and I find it easier to recover at DOMS when I have eaten raw food after gym training instead of prepared. Anyone noticed the same?

  8. pet cats used to be fed scraps of real food – including raw meat, since the pet food con merchants got in on the act, they discovered that early recipes caused cats to decline in health – they discovered that cooking the meat destroyed an essential protein – purine i believe – so they lived once it was added. of course they don’t consider problem of diabetes and obesity caused by the rice the put in cat (junk)food- ever seen a wild cat eat rice? – me neither

  9. oops – correction

    taurine is the amino acid that is destroyed by cooking meat

    so raw meat is more complete – it may even be more easily digested

    m

  10. Yup, Markus, it’s taurine which is destroyed in cooked cat food. Taurine is abundant in heart tissue, but not skeletal muscle, so even feeding raw meat scraps night not provide enough. I prepare raw chicken (www dot catnutrition dot org for the recipe) for my two cats with a heavy duty grinder, though the heart muscle is often difficult to source in the quantities I need, so I have to add taurine capsules.

    Plus, cats need calcium from the raw bones to balance the phosphorus in the skeletal meat. That’s why I cut and grind up the chicken, bones and all. Cooked bones are too brittle and shouldn’t be fed to animals. An additional benefit to this “species appropriate” cat food is that the feces don’t smell at all in the litter box, and dry up quickly, like coyote skat. Cat’s GI tracts are so acidic and short that there isn’t much residue left of the meat, organs, and bones.

    Heather, if you have a dog or cat and started to feed raw food regularly, you would quickly adjust to handling raw meat and poultry. My squeamish factor greatly reduced when I realized how much healthier my cats were on real food.

    I’m intrigued by raw meats and probably could use the meat I get from direct farm sources (though I don’t know their butchers). I’ve had carpaccio in restaurants but not at home. I will eat sushi without a problem, but I don’t love it the way some people do. Maybe I’m too focused on remembering the names or the restaurant bill to enjoy it :-).

    But mostly I am trying to find ways to cook organ meat (offal) in ways my family likes. If I can get somewhere with that, then I may branch into the raw meat route (I have pork and bison heart, liver, and kidney in the freezer now, waiting for inspiring recipes). But my son finds a certain Mr. Bean and Steak Tartare dvd skit so funny I might have a hard time serving it to him.

    1. I started feeding my cat a raw food – grain free diet a few months ago, and he has never looked better! Shiny fur, muscular, and bouncing around like a kitten (he is 13)… I got him late in life so he hasn’t always had this type of diet.

      When I was a kid I loved the taste of raw hamburger….. I was lucky I didn’t get really sick eating it! Now, truthfully I can’t stomach the taste of any raw meat except for Tuna Sashimi, Ahi Tuna and rare beef. So I probably would cross this off my Primal eating list as a “not gonna happen”.

  11. I have always eaten my steak basically just warmed up. Then, since finding sites like this and learning more about nutrition in a year than I thought possible and finding a source of true grass pasture raised cow meat, I now occasionally eat straight up raw meat.

    Not as an actual dish yet, though I don’t quanitfy dishes anymore, but while trimming grass fed sirloin off the bone for marinade once I tasted a piece and didn’t quite stop. Now whenever I prepare some true grass fed I seem to always eat at least a little or more raw, and it is so delicious!

    I do the raw egg bit for breakfast too at times. I actually like to crack three into a half cup of grapefruit juice, stir lightly and swoosh!

    Awesome site by the way!!! Thank you so much for sharing so much knowledge!

  12. Some Ethiopian restaurants in St. Louis have raw options on some of their dishes. I generally enjoy them but wish they would cut the pieces a little smaller as they can be quite tough.

  13. I’ve been eating quality raw beef for 2 months now with no problems. It takes no time to cook, and depending on the cut is very tasty. I’ve been eating grass fed hormone-free ribeye, london broil, t-bone, and few other cuts from Texas Longhorn and red/black angus. I get the longhorn from a local rancher and the cow from Whole Foods. Please visit my blog for documentation of my experiences. Thanks for posting this entry!

  14. I was in Peru a month ago, enjoying their local delicacy “ceviche”, or raw fish, in a good restaurant. Now I’m 11 days into an 18 day treatment for intestinal parasites. Maybe it wasn’t the ceviche. Whatever. I’m not going to die, but I have missed 4 weeks of the cross-country ski season. For me, eating raw meat is not worth the risk unless you, probably like Grok, saw the meat killed with your own eyes. Modern raw meat travels from somewhere, somehow, killed by someone, killed some unknown time ago, to your table.

    1. What program are you doing? Every other program I run into says I should pretty much fast on water and prepare for lunacy? Any advice? =)

    2. I first tried ceviche when I was about twelve. Mu friend’s uncle fish in the bay right in our city I believe. They “cooked” the fish by squeezing citrus right in front of me. I didn’t get parasites. At age five I got parasites, but I hadn’t eaten any raw meat. Only an ant two years earlier. They treated me
      Right away with herbal parasite pills & have not had parasites since. At age 37 doctors thought i might have parasites, but i was vegan by then many years, & they tested me & it wasn’t parasites. Past forty I started eating raw meat, raw fish etc. I get tested from time to time. No parasitic infection yet.

  15. Graham, good point. Sorry to hear about your experience. That’s certainly a possibility when traveling abroad – or even in the USA for that matter. I wish you a speedy recovery.

  16. I’ve noshed on raw meat a time or two (mainly for the lulz), but until recently I hadn’t had it as part of a meal.

    The other day, though, my little brother and I went backpacking. We brought a picnic lunch, which for reasons of convenience I decided to make (and keep) cold. Well, as one may imagine, this provided a bit of a problem – the Primal diet does not enable one to eat things like lunch-meat sandwiches, and well-cooked meat is positively disgusting when cold.

    It was the perfect time for some Grok-style raw meat.

    I heated a skillet, added a bit of oil, and tossed in a chunk that I’d sliced off a beef roast. Added some salt, browned it, and took it out. (I wouldn’t have browned it first, but the dairy where the meat came from is notorious for its germ-ridden facilities.) Stuck in the freezer to chill, then stuffed it in the backpack with my salad and LB’s sandwich and spaghetti squash.

    I can now say with certainty that there is nothing like sitting on the ground out in the wilderness munching on a piece of cold, raw meat. Even in the blah, brown, dry desert, it was absolutely fantastic. (LB even picked up some wild mustard to eat on his sandwich – very caveman of him.)

    One thing I would definitely have to say is that raw meat is best cold. Once you stop thinking about it as “eew, raw meat!” it takes little effort to eat through the entire piece, and it’s tender and quite tasty.

    Unfortunately, I have yet to convince our mother of this fact… she only likes her meat when it’s well-done. (Hates it cold, though. I wonder if I should mention the connection.)

    1. Gotta try Alton Brown’s method for easy beef jerky. No cooking required just marinade and dry. Doesn’t matter if its hot, cold, or raining, delicious beef is ready for consumption

  17. I remember as a baby back in Siberia I was delighted to have small cubes of raw horse liver. So much so in fact I would call it chocolate (as acquiring actual chocolate was luxury even the well off could scarcely enjoy)

    Another dish we enjoyed in the old country was Stragonina, the absolute freshest fish one can imagine. Caught in pristine rivers in the dead of winter through holes in the ice, frozen moments later in the cold conditions, then brought home and enjoyed, still frozen, by shaving off slivers of flesh and letting it melt in your mouth.

    I haven’t been able to bring myself to trust meat in North America enough to eat it any less than medium rare, but one day I hope to once again eat something like the “chocolate” of my childhood.

    1. Raw horse liver questions. Was it refrigerated, or frozen, or quickly seared? Did it have any kind of seasoning, or sauce? Is raw beef liver comparable at all?

      Practically everyone seems so against eating horsemeat in the U.S.A. nowadays.

      My family owned horses and cattle and even though I love horses I don’t understand why they are so against eating horsemeat here now.

      I admit I wouldn’t particularly want to eat my favorite riding horse but I don’t see anything wrong with eating horsemeat. I would eat it if it wasn’t an individual horse that I was emotionally attached to. I raised a calf that I wouldn’t have wanted to eat either, his name was Buddy and he would come when I called him, yet I eat beef almost every day.

      Is eating horsemeat common in Siberia? I think a lot of horsemeat is eaten in France.

      Is beef, or lamb eaten raw in Siberia?

      I have only eaten beef raw in small amounts with a little salt and pepper sprinkled on it. Gina

      1. Is eating horsemeat common in Siberia? I think a lot of horsemeat is eaten in France.

        They eat horsemeat throughout the Pyrenean belt, because this region was one of those in which, during the last descent of the ice-sheets onto the Continent, the horse was domesticated by the men with white skin. Such is the Magdalenian Culture. Real “Paleo” men.

        We would not even exist if it weren’t for our ancestors eating horsemeat, for only the horse — as we see in certain Siberian tribes who subsist this way today on the reindeer, and are themselves the ancestors of the Eskimos — could break through snow pack to obtain lichen for sustenance. Or our people ate them.

        Horse is a fetish in America because no one here had to rely on it for meat. The Injuns took their cue from the Spaniards who re-introduced the horse and hunted the buffalo from horseback. The horse is nothing more than a giant showpiece for Americans, probably reflecting the same mentality among the English. But go to southern France, Asturias, Kazakhstan or best of all Kyrgyzstan, probably Siberia as well, and people eat it because it’s common livestock or traditional.

  18. I’ve been eating raw meat, raw fish, raw eggs for some years now, and love the stuff. So practical too…grab and eat.

    I don’t have ready access to grass fed meats, so it has to be regular meat bought from the local butcher. I balance the omega-6 bias in such meats with omega-3 from cod liver oil and regular oily fish consumption. Grass fed is definitely better, without a doubt.

    Kind regards,

    Steve H

  19. What a great site this is and what great contributions as well.
    I don’t eat a lot of red meat but I am thinking of going raw when I do. This site has helped me heaps. Thank you.

  20. Hah! Whenever I hear someone talk about eating raw meat, it’s in the same sentence as “crazy”. I personally love the taste of raw beef. I used to sneak into the kitchen and steal some off my mom’s cutting board when she wasn’t looking (in hindsight, a dangerous stint since it wasn’t properly decontaminated). Never got sick from it, though. But I’ve never admitted this craving to anyone for fear of sounding… well, crazy. One way I can pig out on raw stuff is having sushi (about once a month, I don’t like the fact that it’s wrapped in white rice, but it tastes so damn good).

  21. I finally took the step into eating raw meat. I got some venison backstrap and instead of cooking it, the thought to just eat it raw overwhelmed me. OMG, it was SO GOOD!

    I have grass-fed beef in the freezer. I’m really looking forward to eating it raw. I also have pastured(wild) boar, but I’m not 100% sure it’s safe.

  22. Raw beef doesn’t actually taste like much of anything… it’s bland but has got a coppery smell (I suppose that’s the blood) which is actually pretty enjoyable, it’s only the stringy, slimy fatty parts that are hard to eat raw. Chicken breast raw is almost the same as cooked, just a slightly different texture. Raw fish (depending on the species) often tastes much better than it does cooked.

  23. Just a quick anecdote from a lurker cum practitioner:

    4 or 5 years ago I bought some pancetta and some other meats in the ‘fancy italian’ section of my local store. Had just landed a decent job and wanted to treat myself.

    Well, over the weekend I ate a pound of pancetta raw, thinking it was cooked and meant to be eaten that way. Literally when I was chewing on the last slice I read the back of the package that said how you must cook before eating!

    So, 2 days, 1 pound of raw pork, no problems. Granted, not sure of what processing or preservatives but hey, it’s an anecdote!

    Cheers,
    noah

  24. I have always had an urge to eat meat raw when I was cooking food. Didn’t matter what it was, with the exception of chicken since i dislike the texture either way. But it simply tastes better, richer and if you want to get fancy with it, do a nice tar tarre topped with a raw egg yolk. Points worth considering.

    1)Bacteria is found on the surface of the meat, the inside is sterile. If you worry about bacteria, cut off the outer layer, it only has to be a carpaccio thin slice.

    Always..ALWAYS mince your own beef, always. When it is minced, now you have a million surfaces for potentially harmful bacteria to thrive on. So if you eat it minced, you cut it yourself and eat it right after preperation.

    2)In Italy they make delicious hams that are left to dry as they are, in a tree for more than a year. Then you just scrabe of the mold and get down to business because…see point 1

    3)In Greenland you can get delicious whale meat prepared in a similar manner. These folks only got scurvy when the good christian folks from Denmark told them to start cooking because they were disgusted by thei habbits.

    4)not all parasites are unwanted as long as it is a mutual deal. The new buzz for allergy treatment is…intestine worms. who’d have think? We have just become to sterile for our own good.

    someone here talked about eating raw bear meat. This is a very bad idea as bear meat is notorious for tough parasites that offer up shitty host/parasite arrangements. Even indiginous people native to the bear cook it for hours on end. Game is not a good idea I reckon, the likeliness of parasites is greater.

    Knowing your cow, or atleast a buthcer who knew it should go without saying.

    Happy munching omnivores

  25. I wanted to add; If you cannot look your dinner in the eyes you should not eat it.

    it works on several levels, really.

  26. you said that cooking ‘kills’ the enzymes.

    I would just like to say that enzymes aren’t alive, so they can’t die.

    Anyway, eating raw meat seems really stupid. For thousands of years humans have been eating meat cooked, we just aren’t adapted to eating it raw anymore.

  27. It breaks down enzymes, they become defunct, useless, a problem, feel free to take ap ick if dead does not work for you.

    We have been adapted to a raw everything diet for millions of years before we took on a new fancy, which in the real time scale, is but a couple of hours ago. Our biology has not changed radically since we came out of the tree/out of the water/god created us.

    1. Great posts Noah. I agree. I’m just getting started with eating raw. I need to get clear on how to prepare the meat correctly so that I can eliminate any possible pathogens and parasites. If you would share with me a comprehensive resource (or even just your recipes/marinades/marinade times) for preparing the meat before eating I would great appreciate it. Thanks!

  28. Cooking not only separated us from animals but helped develop the human brain. Cooking is not a hap hazard option. Raw is not always a good thing, if ever.

    1. Cooking developed the human brain? I think your brain’s been cooked!!

      I eat supermarket steaks blue rare, all you need is a good high-heat fryer and you get full flavor that is (almost) as good as raw. If I have the time and energy, I drive out to the only meat processer that I personally trust with my raw cuts, and treat myself to a beautifully raw steak. I’m a huge lover of raw salmon as well.
      I haven’t made it to poultry yet, mostly because my “guy” doesn’t do any poultry, and I’ve never plucked a chicken, so I just don’t know enough about it to find a reliable source. Mass production has done us an incredible disservice when it comes to bacteria.

  29. Cooking is what seperates us from animals? Our brain developed because of cooked food? are these things you would like to prove, because I know each of these claims to be -at their best- misleading.

    1. I’d love to hear more about your experience! How long have you been eating raw meat for? Do you have a website/ journal?

  30. I had steak tartare once when I went to Poland and it was AMAZING. I’ve never seen it in the US. I’d eat it right now if I could! 🙂

  31. I have to chime in here – (advisory of some sort – don’t read if you’re squeamish.)
    last winter my uterus went crazy and tried to kill me. So, I basically bled continuously from February until June when I had the hysterectomy. During that time, (and for the first time EVER for me) I CRAVED raw beef. CRAVED!! So – I ate it. (Now,you should know that I live in a ranching community, and buy beef by the half from friend-ranchers – slaughtered off grass, processed locally, if that makes a difference) Tartar, slivers from the steak before cooking, bits of the hamburger,sometimes sitting down and eating a 4 or 6 ounce portion raw.) clearly now, looking back I was lacking a nutrient of some sort, but it tells me that your body will tell you when it needs something – LISTEN!! And now, when I hanker for cow meat uncooked – I eat it! Most of the time I’m a medium rare sort of lady, but there are times when that soft texture, mineral taste just calls to me. So – I answer. My body knows what it needs. (pass the tenderloin…)

  32. So tell me, is it actually safe to eat raw chicken? Most of modern day society will say you must be absolutely crazy to eat raw chicken. The risks of getting salmonella and such are incredibly high aren’t they?

    1. Most of modern society consumes cupcakes and dozens of cans of Diet Coke per week.

      Pastured raw chicken is safe. Industrial raw chicken is not. This relates to how the animals are raised. If the chicken was raised hurriedly, given grain to eat, injected with whatever sinister concoctions and placed beneath another chicken to be shit on, probably one would not be safe eating its carcass.

      A pastured hen is another story altogether. It pecks around for buggies, it shits on the ground and is not shit on, and the one major risk factor is ingesting grass or browse contaminated by wastewater or fertilizers. If the pasture is clean and the chickens browsed properly, there is absolutely no danger of bacteria associated with unsanitary industrial conditions.

  33. I loved eating my steak blue rare but now knowing I can eat it right off the cow sign me up. Don’t know if I’m too keen on the raw chicken concept little worried about the sickness not cool. But show me the sushi and the beef

    Grok on

  34. Ah – yes! My kind of subject!

    I love raw cow muscle meat.
    I can definately tell the difference in how I feel after consuming raw meat vs. cooked.
    Raw makes me energetic after consuming it and I have to eat less to feel satisfied.
    When I consume cooked meat I get slightly tired afterwards.
    Bovine meat is the only meat I can consume raw, I can’t get over the fear of parasites in chicken, fish and pork so I cook all those.

    And a smoothie made of raw goat’s milk + raw egg yolk (drain the whites) + 1 banana is to die for!

    Oh – and semi raw beef liver and onions!

    RAWR !

  35. Used to eat Tartare growing up in Austria.The butcher would grind it right there in the shop,on a smaller grinder,than the one used for regular-
    ground ( so,no extra fat !),mix it with raw egg and onions,salt and pepper, on rye-bread : GOOD!!!Eat raw eggs nowadays
    only if they are pasteurized,(Salmonela
    danger).

    1. If it’s been pasteurized, it has therefore been cooked and all the benefits of eating it raw have therefore been destroyed. Pastured chickens, in a clean environment will lay clean eggs. (Little to no salmonella danger.)

  36. I loves me some RAW meat!! I find it’s several orders of magnitude more tender, tastier, easier to digest—just SUPER YUMMY!
    Just a bit of salt, pepper, and a touch of chili.
    Of course Mark’s exhortations on evaluating quality sources apply–I don’t do feedlot meat raw. I also make beef ceviche quite a bit–yep, lemon juice, tomato, cilantro, garlic & some spices–let it marinate for 20 inutes or so. Magnificent!

  37. Raw beef and fish I like….pork and chicken….I don’t think so (they’re filthy).

  38. I’ve tried raw lamb liver, raw fish and raw chicken.

    My naturopath picked up some parasites that weren’t agreeing with my body (whipworms). My guess is it was the chicken. Apparently most store bought chickens undergo some kind of quick boiling process (a slow-food friend of mine learnt this from conversations with chicken farmers- Australia)

    I loved the raw fish though, it tasted salty. It wasn’t yet 24hrs old.

    I’d never have raw pork, there’s a lot more risk there.

    Sally Fallon (from book Nourishing Traditions – highly recommended)strongly encourages eating good quality raw meat but freezing it for two weeks to kill parasites. For city dwellers, I think it’s a good compromise. I’m guessing that’s where a marinade of lemon juice, kefir or raw apple cider vinegar can help restore enzymes. I’m still curious about the enzyme issue though, because I wonder which enzymes are destroyed and which ones the lemon juice etc add.

    Any info anyone?

  39. I went tot he store tonight and bought a half pound of Atlantic salmon…cut the skin off in a very thin slice…cubed it and ate it raw. Very good. I am ok with eating raw beef, but I like it room temp…not cold.

  40. I think you might want to avoid Atlantic Salmon, AFAIK, it’s farmed, which means things like sea lice and the pesticides used to get rid of them, lack of access to what Salmon normally eat, toxins from the feed, artificially colored, lower Omega 3’s, though it has higher fat (which means worse O3:O6 ratios), etc.

    Go for Alaskan instead if you can get it.

  41. Love my steak blue rare, with nothing more than a quick flash-sear in a scorching hot, bacon-greased cast iron skillet, some kosher salt and black pepper dusted over the surface before throwing it in for a few seconds on each side. Flash-sear the outside, barely warm in the middle. I cook good, locally pasture-raised pork chops the same way. RAWR indeed. Tartare is maybe my favorite treat in the world. Raw fish, cold-cured pork in the form of prosciutto, etc. I haven’t been able to look rare poultry in the proverbial eye, but haven’t seen much indigenous cultural support for that anyway, so will happily enjoy long, slow-roasted birds. Otherwise bacon is just about the only meat product I want cooked crispy (mmm… bacon).

    Now I’m struggling with the notion of seeking pregnancy, and my natural inclination to eat meat as raw/rare as possible. Do I truly need to start cooking the sh!t out of my good, locally-raised, all-pastured, grass-fed beef, eggs, and milk? The conventional advice is to avoid everything from soft cheese to lunch meat, but if primal eating is good for me, shouldn’t it be good for baby, too, assuming primal sources of clean, whole foods? Maybe my taste and needs will shift in pregnancy and I’ll start craving well-done steak?

    No pro in their right mind in this litigious “conventional wisdom” society would advise me positively in this direction on the record, but where can I find realistic info on true risk?

    1. but if primal eating is good for me, shouldn’t it be good for baby, too, assuming primal sources of clean, whole foods?

      There’s a comment above from a woman who had a uterine problem which caused her to bleed excessively, thus losing iron, which gave her cravings for blood, essentially. Menstruation itself has been implicated in uterine cancer in that this periodic sloughing of the uterine wall encourages excess cell-growth, and statistically, the more cells that have to compensate for a wound, the likelier they are to make mistakes in copying and cause cancerous growth. So, though I don’t know how exactly pregnancy works, which is pretty stupid actually, I doubt you’ll find yourself craving raw flesh as you will not be menstruating, but of course I don’t know the psychology or etiology of cravings and you may anyhow.

      My guess, from very light and scattered reading, is that fetuses and infants cannot handle certain enzymes or whatever found in soft cheeses and honey. I myself don’t believe it — I’ve known Russians who swore by honeyed sweets given them as tots, and I find it hard to believe French toddlers are never given pieces of brie or something by their parents. This would presume that entire human cultures prior to the advent of American conventional wisdom kept their infants and their soft cheeses (or honey) rigorously separate. Doesn’t add up.

      Do as much as research as you can and make sure your meat was treated better than 90% of humans, slaughtered and handed over to you as hygienically as possible. After a good freeze, I believe it will be safe for your spawn.

      I mean, this is all about what our Upper Paleolithic ancestors ate. It isn’t like they themselves ate raw meat and cooked the rest for their kids.

  42. At least in the past several thousand years (in civilized cultures) most peoples have eaten grains. There’s evidence of flour from 30,000 years ago. Few people in the past could afford to eat meat. The animals were worth more alive. Only the rich were able to eat them. That’s not the case today, but it was back then. When you rewind back further to hunting and gathering you see more meat eating, but we’re not the same kind of people we were back then. Our brains were mostly the same, but other things have changed.

    I would say we’re moving away from meat eating for a variety of reason, but I don’t think it will ever go away completely. Soon we will grow meat artificially but from there it’s all about dietary concerns and whether it’ll even be needed or not.

    I would be careful eating it raw. We’re not equipped to eat it that way. If you look at predators in the wild the differences between them and us are many. It’s not just about their capability to hunt and kill better than we do (disregarding our higher intelligence and better use of tools) but it’s also about their digestive track and taste buds among numerous other differences. Their body just is not the same and you need to be careful.

    The reason eskimos ate raw meat safely was because of the freezing temperatures (reduces bacterial growth) and the salt water (causes bacteria to shrivel up or something) and also because they ate their food faster.

    Even the military recommends cooking it to if in a survival situation because the odds are not in your favor to eat it raw. It just doesn’t make sense.

    It makes a lot more sense to cook meat and have a balanced diet that includes lots of fruits and vegetables, anti-inflamattories like ginger, exercise, sleep well, manage stress levels so they’re healthy, eat the walnuts and almonds at lunch, put those berries in your oatmeal, eat some fish, eat some fruit our taste buds are perfectly made to taste it. And so on. A balanced diet is the most important thing of all and most people get too much dairy and meat and processed carbs and not enough veggies and fruits and unprocessed/unrefined grains like oatmeal. The problem is not that we’re not eating raw meat, it’s that we’re not balanced in how we live our lives.

    1. It won’t go away because we’re not herbivores, and not built to subsist entirely on herbivorous foods.
      Our digestive tract (not “track”) is that of a predatory omnivore, not that of a ruminant or hindgut fermenter. Survival situations where a soldier may not have experience carefully handling and cleaning a carcass, and likely to eating wild animals which may or may not be carrying parasite loads (etc) are different than normal life, where we can know our meat is clean and healthy, fed on a biologically-appropriate diet, and handled with care to prevent cross-contamination. It just makes sense. But hey–no one’s forcing you to eat your meat rare or raw. Are they?

      As far as “not being the same people” we were before the agricultural revolution, well, you’re mostly just wrong, there. There are a few genetic changes, but no major alterations in our digestive tract, dentition, essential nutrient profile, or really any other marker for determination of optimum diet. “Unprocessed” and “unrefined” grains are no more appropriate food for homo sapiens sapiens than they are for canis lupis or sus scrofa. Grains simply aren’t food for anyone but birds. Not cows, not dogs, not pigs, not people.

      Incidentally, vat meat is not anything like close to mass production. Though it’s possible to replicate the cells, there still is no way to replicate the texture, or the flavor, or the nutrient profile of a grass-fed cow on the hoof, or wild venison. You can keep your lab-grown frankenfood, no thanks. People need animals for survival. I don’t want to live in a world where our crops are dependent on petroleum fertilizers and industrial processes, and our meat comes, shapeless and flavorless, from a vat of agar. Count me in on clean air and warm sunshine and sunny grass pastures and blueberry patches inhabited by geese and ducks and chickens.

      1. Bravo!

        He had some real points — re freezing temp and biological differences — but the rest is homily. What about the theory that mankind was shaped in the crucible of rapid climate variation in the Afar, where a plethora of bipedal hominids flourished and went extinct? They would not have had constant access to the SWPL omnivory that’s held up by Pollan & co. One should not mistake Whole Foods for nature. The truth is that these urban browsers want to push their mode of life upon us because we are a threat to them. Any loss of citizenry is to the state (a dense agrarian political entity) a loss in profits. Ten-thousand fewer consumers of grain and “fresh veggies” are so many tons of grains and produce gone to waste. This is the same Western agrarian-capitalist war against ancient modes of life the American state wages on the pastoralists of Afghanistan, for example, or McDonald’s in Nepal and Bhutan, or the forcing of Bedouin tribes onto fixed plots or cities.

        1. What a load of paranoid B.S.; no one is pushing their mode of life on you, unless you let them. The way of life today is ‘marketing’; if you don’t buy into it, you won’t be a victim. There is no ‘agrarian-capitalist war’ (what inflammatory phraseology!) against pastoralists (who are nearly as far from hunter-gatherers as agriculturalists), someone just wants their land.
          Tone it down a bit.

    2. Why are you on a Paleo site recommending grains, even if it is unrefined?

  43. I want to start eating raw meat I know that thats how we were meant to get our energy, every time i have meat in a meal i am just disappointed and dont even want to finish the meal, this may sound weird to some but the only meat i ever want to eat is raw. does anyone know a good place to start? I have a very strong stomach and rarely get sick any ideas? oh and i do not have access to grass fed just normal grocery store ( i can get grass fed elk though but it would be a month or so) please help I want to taste what meat is supposed to be. thank you
    -kirsten

    1. The teeniest morsel of raw lambs liver (beef is a much stronger flavour). You mentioned elk – I’ve not had that, but I did get a very nice piece of venison liver which had a stronger flavour than that of the lamb, but it was still very pleasant. Believe me, the first bite is the hardest and then you wonder why you hadn’t tried it before!

      Ground/Minced meat is very nice too and a great place to start – just make sure it’s very fresh, of course, due to bacterial contamination worries.

      In both cases, however, I would not buy meat for raw consumption in a normal grocery store. Probably better to wait for your elk.

  44. I enjoy the odd bit of sushi or smoked salmon, raw lambs liver, home-made beef jerky or corned beef and some ground/minced beef from the local butcher (who pretty much makes it to order on the day, so not much risk there.) I also start the day with an egg-yolk and viili (similar to yogurt) smoothie.

    And though perhaps the salmonella risk of raw chicken might be dealt with by source/preparation (and salmonella is a known bacteria with standard treatments), I do think that raw pork is simply too dangerous.

    I read up about trichinosis (the parasite that can infest raw pork) and it’s a very real risk. The parasite is too small to see and by the time you know you have a problem, it’s possibly too late – and probably harder to treat than a bacteria. (Bear meat has the same risk, btw.)

  45. I have been on a raw paleo diet for almost 8 years now…I eat nothing but raw meat and raw/fermented produce. In all of the years on this diet I have never gotten sick from eating raw meat. I have a genetic condition called Grave’s, an aging disease. I almost died twice from it before getting on this diet. At 32 I looked in my 40’s. Now I am 45, and people seriously think I am the same age as my 23 year old daughter. All my wrinkles disappeared, I have perfect body tone and elasticity, perfect skin, incredible energy, excellent health, and have no signs of aging.
    My disease is in complete remission, and the goiter and bulging eyes I had due to the Grave’s disease are completely gone.
    Living food creates a living body, dead food leads to cellular death and decay. It is seriously not good to treat the meat with substances to lower bacterial levels, or freeze at extreme temps…the point of living food is it is ALIVE. The only way that things like salmonella become dangerous, is if they are previously heated, as it changes their molecular structure, and makes them dangerous. Seriously, salmonella is an actual building block of life, and is in the prokaryote family…the very building blocks that help compose you!
    I do make sure my meat is not treated with carbon monoxide, which most grocery stores do. I get my meat from Safeway, and my organ meats from a local natural butcher. I am currently experimenting with raw pickled meats.
    Raw chicken and turkey are great marinated in lemon juice and soy sauce. Raw beef is great on it’s own, seasoned, marinated, or whatever floats your boat. Raw fish is great marinated or on it’s own. There are a lot of meats to try and experiment with.
    Though pregnant women, sick people, children, etc.,are warned against eating it, they are the people that need it most. Give your animal when they are ill nothing but raw meat, and see how fast they recover. My one cat was chronically ill with parasite issues and liver problems…but on a diet of raw chicken he is is now without any of these issues. He is almost 12, and looks no more than 5 or 6…beautiful coat, and he never gets ill.
    There is nothing I miss about cooked food…it is weird eating dead things.

    1. Hi I was just interested in hearing more about your experiences with eating raw meat. I’m about to start taking it up and would love to hear about favorite recipes, organ meats and just raw meats in general. Thanks. -Chris

    2. I curious to learn more about salmonella that way you talk about it. Can you help?

  46. I used to eat raw meat, I would leave it out in the air for a couple hours or days depending on the ambient temperature and never had any problems with sickness. In fact, I found the meat to be at it’s tastiest with just a little white mould forming on the surface. I stopped eating raw because if I had any cooked protein I would throw up or have diarrhea for a couple days. This made social eating a bit of a problem as not many people want to be near you when you chow down on an aged piece of raw meat (it does smell a bit funky).

  47. How can you tell if you get a parasite problem ie what are the symptoms

  48. My buddies and I used to go to HEB, buy a pound of raw salmon, have the butcher cut it up into cubes and we would dip it in soy sauce and eat it. I stopped when I learned that the salmon was not sushi-grade. From reading Mark’s article, I now know that “sushi-grade” is not an FDA-regulated label, so I might try it again.

    Someone was talking about pastured poultry. Is that different from “free range?” If not, “free range” is another term that is not regulated by any governing body and, oftentime, merely means that the poultry have access to the outdoors. Said access could theoretically only be a trapdoor, and “outdoors” could theoretically be a 4ft by 4ft fenced-in, grassless area.

  49. To jet : You were getting dark circles under your eyes because your liver was going into cleanse mode. Dark circles and bags under the eyes are caused by liver congestion.
    Parasites only occur if eating a lot of cooked, unhealthy, or carb based foods(grains, potatoes, winter squash, beans,sugar, etc.). Parasites are the bodies clean up crew when your body is so backed up/toxic, you cannot eliminate and digest properly. Parasite levels are higher in countries that eat raw meat, because most of these people eat a lot of carbs/cooked food as well. I never recommend eating raw meat unless a person eats carb free and mostly raw. Before I got on the raw paleo diet, I had a reoccurring parasite issue, and would treat for them about once a year…now I do not get them at all.
    To the pregnant lady…children born of raw paleo mothers turn out incredibly healthy. I know a woman on the raw paleo diet that recently had a baby…excellent health, and at 8 months is now eating ground up raw meat as well…he loves it! If I could go back in time, that is what I would have done with my two children. I am blessed my daughter is on the same diet as me as well, but she wishes I had started her as a child.

    1. hi, you seem the most seasoned in this field on this page, and i am in line with your ‘getting life from life’ concept– but i am just afraid of one thing, the possibility of parasites that would leave the intestinal tract and go to my brain ir eyes and do bad things. ive looked up cysticercosis and neurocysticercosis from worms like T. solium, and they do exist. so this is my fear and if you could help me understand this situation a bit more i would be so appreciative. i dont fear salmonella or anything that wouldnt leave my digestive tract. ive been doing raw eggs over a year and raw meat a few months on and off. probably 6 pounds of raw meat in last 2 months. i want to only eat raw forever but i really want to get a better grip on the parasite thing. ive been buying organic grassfed from whole foods but recently switched to an amish farm in pennsylvania, amos miller’s

  50. I used to like my meat and fish undercooked and now don’t cook it at all. Living in Australia, I am able to purchase kangaroo mince for less than $9 per kilo, and now eat it straight out of the packet. I often eat raw fish or raw chicken. I also have raw free range eggs, a delicious easy snack, simply punching a hole in each end of the egg and sucking the delicious contents into my mouth. I particularly enjoy these foods after doing heavy manual labour, or after a heavy gym workout. I recover more quickly by eating these foods. I also eat raw vegetables. I love the wide variety of enjoyable combinations of flavours and taste sensations with delicious colourful fresh crisp crunchy juicy vegetables and herbs or ginger etc. I feel very much alone in my enjoyment as the people who I know seem to be so entrenched in the popular belief that uncooked food is unsafe etc. So I usually eat alone. I have learned that people dislike the smell of raw broccoli or raw cabbage on my breath, so confine myself to more socially acceptable foods at times. Last night I went out with friends to a restaurant, and enjoyed smoked salmon salad. No dressing. Just two pieces of lemon. And some of my friends liked the look of that when the waiter brought it to the table. It was the first time in years that I actually really enjoyed the food served at a restaurant! I was happy to leave a tip for the waiter, and to thank the restaurant staff for a delicious meal.

  51. been eating raw meat since I was a child, only three years ago did I get really sick (not from raw meat, but from a McDonalds) and my stomach hasnt been the same since, unfortunatly.
    I am working on becoming completly well again.

    I still eat raw liver weekly, with no ill effects, drink blood, eat raw heart and kidney and muscle meat and have so far not had a problem.

  52. There is technically no more danger in eating raw meat then there is in eating a steak medium/medium-rare. In order for parasites and bacteria (if they exist in the meat) to be killed off, an internal temperature of 145°F must be achieved. This just doesn’t happen in any meat cooked less than well done. I was a chef for over 10 years and would often eat beef tenderloin raw while I was trimming it and to this day have had no adverse effects from eating properly handled raw meat. (I once got food poisoning from cooked chicken wings…but found out later the meat had been mishandled by a well meaning hostess and then cooked in under heated oil with too many wings in the fryer. This is food toxicity. Quite different than bacteria.). In any event, the social stigma and publishers basic desire to cover their butts from lawsuits due to the (mostly) uneducated masses mishandling their food, has blown this whole issue WAY out of proportion.

  53. I hope more of you will get past your fears. Those of us eating raw meat feel GREAT. In 3 years I’ve never gotten sick — even better, I’m in the best shape ever. The fear of germs is unfounded. That in itself is a great freedom to realize.
    This youtube video addresses the fears: http://youtu.be/Z9g_EGbnfxo

  54. I have eaten raw meat almost every day for years!
    Without going into detail, bacteria and parasites in and on good quality (grass-fed, unprocessed, and organic) meats are actually good for you! Among other things, they have a positive effect on our immune systems. Unfortunately, cooking kills these beneficial organisms. Other reasons to eat your meat raw include the presence of biophotons in raw meat, the absence of, or greatly lower quantity of heat-created toxins (think AGEs, PAHs, and HCAs, just to name a few) in raw meat, and, of course, the presence of enzymes in raw meat.
    For more in depth info you should read: ‘The Raw Paleo Diet & Lifestyle: why I eat my meat raw and why you should too!’ It’s an ebook, available on Amazon [Kindle] and smashwords.com: https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/366528

  55. Hey very interesting site and article. I have read many of the comments, but not all since it are quite many 😛

    Anyway to the point, I always loved ALL raw veggies. (not joking. I even munch down one or two slices raw potato sometimes ever since I am a kid. I lately read you’re supposed to get sick from that, oops… :’) but never had issues), and I have always LOVED rare steak to bits.
    Usually when I bake a steak, I just sizzle it for a few secs on each side, and even then I feel like “wasting” the meat. Lately I just ate a WHOLE raw steak just like that, and my god… it was so tasty! I must be crazy, as I know plenty of people who gag at the idea, but I just love that FULL, juicy taste, as opposed to this dulled, burnt taste of baked meat. I also love raw salmon. When I discovered (as a kid/teen) that salmon can be eaten raw I have ever wanted to just eat a whole filet whole. Lately I bought myself a big piece of fresh, delicious salmon, and I was actually about to bake it, until I took a raw bite… and decided to eat it whole like that. It was even better than baked!

    But when it comes to, well, OTHER types of meat, I am curious how those will taste… but also afraid. I feel this old conditioning “don’t eat pink pork or chicken” coming up again. All places say you CAN basically eat it, IF you buy it from a local farmer, yadda yadda yadda. I buy most of my meat organic, but there are virtually NO local “small scale” farmers in the area where I live, and I can’t help but wonder… is the risk of eating a raw organic pork chop that much higher than of eating a raw organic whole steak or salmon slice?
    Some sites even go as far as suggesting you ‘gamble’ each time you put raw food into your mouth. Well holy fuck, are they crazy!? If that is a gamble, your immune system probably is wrecked! I just feel like our society is wayyy to squeamish about hygiene and bacteria and all of that. We don’t have an immune system for no reason. And if you live in a sterile environment that will even be worse for you, cause your immune system will go nuts and attack your own body cells!

    Anyway, can anyone tell me how high the risk is, and how serious the effects could be if it goes wrong. (also compared to a raw steak. As oddly enough I am not scared about that at all. Probably cause my parents told me beef is “safe” to eat red, while pork/chicken has to be TOTALLY TOTALLY TOTALLY well done, or you will DIE! (lol, no))

  56. I know this post is more than 8 years old now, but if Mark or any other Primal expert/researcher sees this, would bringing the temperature of poultry/red meat up to “body temperature” (average mammal body temperature, ~100 degrees Fahrenheit) make it easier to digest/consume? Raw fish is fine cold since they’re cold-blooded, but we may be more keen to eat warm/hot meat since we would recognize it as a “fresh kill”.