Grain Relapse
I find that grain bashing makes for a tasty, but ultimately unsatisfying meal.
You all know how much I love doing it, though. But no matter how often I sit down to dine on the stuff (and I’ve done it with great gusto in the past), I always leave the table feeling like I left something behind. Like maybe I wasn’t harsh enough about the danger of gluten, or I failed to really convey just how much I hated lectins. If I didn’t know better, I’d think the mere mention of grains was eliciting a crazy insulin-esque response and throwing my satiety hormones all out of whack. I was filling up on anti-grain talk, but I just couldn’t fill that void for long.
Well, I’ve got the hunger today, and this time I aim to stuff myself to the point of perpetual sickness. I don’t ever want to have to look at another anti-grain argument again (yeah, right). If things get a little disjointed, or if I descend into bullet points and sentence fragments, it’s only because the hunger has taken over and I’ve decided to dispense with the pleasantries in order to lay it all out at once.
So please, bear with me.
Apart from maintaining social conventions in certain situations and obtaining cheap sugar calories, there is absolutely no reason to eat grains. Believe me – I’ve searched far and wide and asked everyone I can for just one good reason to eat cereal grains, but no one can do it. They may have answers, but they just aren’t good enough. For fun, though, let’s see take a look at some of the assertions:
“You need the fiber!”
Okay, for one: no, I don’t. If you’re referring to its oft-touted ability to move things along in the inner sanctum, fiber has some unintended consequences. A few years back, scientists found that high-fiber foods “bang up against the cells lining the gastrointestinal tract, rupturing their outer covering” which “increases the level of lubricating mucus.” Err, that sounds positively awful. Banging and tearing? Rupturing? These are not the words I like to hear. But wait! The study’s authors say, “It’s a good thing.” Fantastic! So when all those sticks and twigs rub up against my fleshy interior and literally rupture my intestinal lining, I’ve got nothing to worry about. It’s all part of the plan, right?
Somehow, I’m not convinced that a massive daily infusion of insoluble grain fiber is all that essential. And that “lubricating mucus” sounds an awful like the mucus people with irritable bowel syndrome complain about. From personal experience I can tell you that once I completed my exodus from grains, the IBS completely stopped. If you’re not yet convinced on the fiber issue I’ll refer you to Konstantin Monastyrsky’s Fiber Menace. Anyway, there’s plenty of fiber in the vegetables and fruit I eat. Which takes me to the next claim:
“You need the vitamins and minerals!”
You got me. I do need vitamins and minerals, like B1 and B2, magnesium and iron, zinc and potassium. But do I need to obtain them by eating a carb-heavy, bulky grain? No, no I don’t. You show me a serving of “healthy whole grains” that can compete – nutrient, vitamin, and mineral-wise – with a Big Ass Salad. What’s that? Can’t do it? Thought so.
“But it forms the foundation of the governmental food pyramid!”
You know, I should have just started the entire post with this one. I could have saved my fingers the trouble of typing and your eyes the trouble of reading. Governmental endorsements are not points in your favor, grain-eater; they are strikes against you. An appeal to authority (unless that “authority” is actually a preponderance of scientific evidence, of course) does not an effective argument make. Conventional Wisdom requires consistent, steady dissection and criticism if it is to be of any value.
There’s a reason grains are first and foremost on the list of foods to avoid when following the Primal Blueprint: they are completely and utterly pointless in the context of a healthy diet. In fact, if your average unhealthy person were to ask for the top three things to avoid in order to get healthy, I would tell them to stop smoking, to stop drinking their calories (as soda or juice), and to stop eating grains. Period. Full stop. They really are that bad.
I’ve mentioned this time and again, but the fundamental problem with grains is that they are a distinctly Neolithic food that the human animal has yet to adapt to consuming. In fact, cereal grains figured prominently in the commencement of the New Stone Age; grains were right there on the forefront of the agricultural revolution. Hell, they were the agricultural revolution – einkorn wheat, emmer, millet, and spelt formed the backbone of Neolithic farming. They could be stored for months at a time, they were easy enough to grow in massive enough quantities to support a burgeoning population, and they promoted the construction of permanent settlements. Oh, and they were easily hoarded, meaning they were probably an early form of currency (and, by extension, a potential source of income inequality). And here’s the kicker: they were harsh, tough things that probably didn’t even taste very good. It also took a ton of work just to make them edible, thanks to their toxic anti-nutrients.
Toxic anti-nutrients? Do tell.
Living things generally do not want to be consumed by other living things. Being digested, for the most part, tends to interrupt survival, procreation, propagation of the species – you know, standard stuff that fauna and flora consider pretty important. To avoid said consumption, living things employ various self defense mechanisms. Rabbits, for example, with their massive ears, considerable fast-twitch muscle fibers, and nasty claws, can usually hear a predator coming, outrun (out-hop?) nearly anything, and (in a pinch) slash a tender belly to shreds. Blue whales are too big to fit into your mouth, while porcupines are walking reverse pincushions. Point is, animals have active defense mechanisms. They run, fight, jump, climb, fly, sting, bite, and even appeal to our emotions (if you’ve ever seen a puppy beg for a treat with sad eyes, you know that isn’t just accidental cuteness) in order to survive. All the while, predators are constantly evolving and generating adaptations.
Plants, though, are passive organisms without the ability to move, think, and react (for the most part). They must employ different tactics to ensure propagation, and they generally have to rely on outside forces to spread their seed. And so various methods are “devised” to dissuade consumption long enough for the seed to get to where it’s going. Nuts have those tough shells, and grains have the toxic anti-nutrients, lectins, gluten, and phytates. (Of course there are some obvious exceptions. Fruits are tasty, nutritious, and delicious so that animals will eat them whole and poop out the seeds, preferably into some fertile soil. The seed stays intact throughout the digestive process; it is indigestible by design. No seed “wants” to be digested, because this would defeat the purpose. They “want” to be swallowed, or borne by the wind, or carried by a bee to the next flower, but they do not want to be digested.)
Some animals are clearly adapted to grain consumption. Birds, rodents, and some insects can deal with the anti-nutrients. Humans, however, cannot. Perhaps if grains represented a significant portion of our ancestral dietary history, things might be a bit different. Some of us can digest dairy, and we’ve got the amylase enzyme present in our saliva to break down starches if need be, but we simply do not have the wiring necessary to mitigate the harmful effects of lectins, gluten, and phytate.
Lectins are bad. They bind to insulin receptors, attack the stomach lining of insects, bind to human intestinal lining, and they seemingly cause leptin resistance. And leptin resistance predicts a “worsening of the features of the metabolic syndrome independently of obesity”. Fun stuff, huh?
Gluten might be even worse. Gluten, found in wheat, rye, and barley, is a composite of the proteins giladin and glutenin. Around 1% of the population are celiacs, people who are completely and utterly intolerant of any gluten. In celiacs, any gluten in the diet can be disastrous. We’re talking compromised calcium and vitamin D3 levels, hyperparathyroidism, bone defects. Really terrible stuff. And it gets worse: just because you’re not celiac doesn’t mean you aren’t susceptible to the ravages of gluten. As Stephan highlights, one study showed that 29% of asymptomatic (read: not celiac) people nonetheless tested positive for anti-gliadin IgA in their stool. Anti-gliadin IgA is an antibody produced by the gut, and it remains there until it’s dispatched to ward off gliadin – a primary component of gluten. Basically, the only reason anti-gliadin IgA ends up in your stool is because your body sensed an impending threat – gluten. If gluten poses no threat, the anti-gliadin IgA stays in your gut. And to think, most Americans eat this stuff on a daily basis.
Phytates are a problem, too, because they make minerals bio-unavailable (so much for all those healthy vitamins and minerals we need from whole grains!), thus rendering null and void the last, remaining argument for cereal grain consumption.
What, then, is the point to all this grain madness? Is there a good reason for anyone (with access to meat, fruit, and vegetables, that is) to rely on cereal grains for a significant portion of their caloric intake?
The answer is unequivocally, undeniably no. We do not need grains to survive, let alone thrive. In fact, they are naturally selected to ward off pests, whether they be insects or hominids. I suggest we take the hint and stop eating them.
And with that, I’m done. I don’t think I could eat another bite.
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Posted By: Mark Sisson
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Very timely, as I read this in my school’s buffet. I’m going to grab some more salad!
Very well said. When I spoke to one of fellow nurses about my dietary habits and explained that i don’t eat grains or potatoes legumes etc, she said “but how do you get your starches” like it was some sort of required food group. And this from a NURSE. She should know better, but many don’t because they just spit out what they are taught. And therein lies our problem…
That’s because she’s learned it from the doctor.
Thanks Mark – I have been slipping lately and this was the article that I needed to read.
Sometimes reminders like this and a little reinforcement are useful. Thanks for reading, Alex!
A reminder for me about how much I don’t miss them
Hey Mark, new to you, but like what you are saying about no grains, they have never made me feel good. What else to eat besides fruits a veggies, Maybe this brocitis will go away. see ya.
Dan: Try a steak.
For my Sustainability class my group is supposed to brainstorms ways we can cut back on food consumption on campus (ASU). One proposition will be to cut outs grains and sugars from campus. consuming only nutrient-dense food will derive undistorted satiation, and ultimately require less calories.
“if your average unhealthy person were to ask for the top three things to avoid in order to get healthy, I would tell them to stop smoking, to stop drinking their calories (as soda or juice), and to stop eating grains.”
You wouldn’t have no added or processed sugar as a top 3?
Which of Mark’s Top 3 would you have replaced with your suggestion?
Well the more I think about it, my suggestion, no sugar, pretty much covers the no soda suggestion, so I guess that one.
You?
I like the way Mark presented his Top 3 because many people think they’re eating healthy even while they’re drinking juice. While some foods with added sugars may at least provide a tiny bit of nutrition, sugary drinks are really at the bottom of that list.
While the avid readers of MDA already know this, I think it would be more helpful to newbies who still follow CW.
There are plenty of unhealthy people who don’t smoke.
agreed but the statement was if I had to tell people three things to a healthier lifestyle. No one was suggesting that just because you don’t smoke it means your healthy.
“If you’re not a smoker, don’t start” — how’s that — {:~)
Any number of things could make it into the top 3 on any given day. Of course it depends on the audience, too. As Kristin J touched on above, for your average guy or gal on the street just cutting out soda would be a major step in the right direction. But, yes, of course, processed sugar is right up there (and soda sort of covers or implies that).
Sugar is a grain! Right? So no grains covers it.
Well, no, it depends on where the sugar comes from. If it’s from corn syrup or sorghum, then OK. Sugarcane’s a whole different critter.
I think it’d have to be a top four suggestions. Because sugar, no matter where it comes from, is more and more implicated in metabolic syndrome and diabetes due to its fructose content. It also operates as an antinutrient.
I only drink diet (but a lot of it). Am I going to die for different reasons?
This is a perfect reminder- esp with the holidays fast approaching. While I might enjoy a wee bit of quinoa or hummus now and then, my consumption has dropped dramtically over the last 9 months since I’ve been on the PB. Grains really don’t appeal to me any more, thankfully. Excellent post!
Why cut out hummus? It’s not a grain as far as I know.
It would be nice to get a clarification on this since as an Israeli cutting hummus out of my diet would be very close to impossible.
-Rafi
Beans are a no-no on the PB- I just threw them in there since some grains & beans are 20% for me!
There’s no reason to cut out legumes, but they are high in sugar (they’re carby). I’m a vegetarian so I eat legumes on days I don’t eat eggs to get my protein in. Also hummus is the sort of thing where a serving is a tablespoon, so you’re not even really eating that much hummus (or shouldn’t be).
They are a bean…legume. Not allowed on PB dirt
Cordain has a great lecture on how grains (and lectins, of course), are linked to multiple sclerosis. It’s scientific but rather easy to understand.
http://www.youtube.com/user/miladskaya#g/c/7227FC56E6473A9B
Here is a good reason for eating grains, they taste good. Stop worrying about your diet and enjoy your life. Give vegetarianism a chance.
Grain-based foods do taste and smell good, I agree. But hardly a good reason to eat them regularly. Gonna have to do better than that.
This post (Grain Relapse) is perfect timing, as I have been slipping into daily consumption again. Back on the wagon now!
G=G (can’t even bring myself to spell it out), glad you brought this up. That was to be one of my other major points under “no good reasons to eat grains.” They taste terrible. The only way to make grains even reasonably palatable is by adding sugars, spices, salt, cream, yeast, jams, spreads or sauces. What’s the point to that, other than adding cheap calories that easily convert to glucose? Just eat real food. Name a grain that tastes anything other than bland when its eaten all by itself. Beige glop any way you cut it.
BTW, I did give vegetarianism a try 30 years ago and it make me sick and weak. That’s why I host this site.
Could you please let us all avid readers know the vegetarian experiment as a separate post? I’d love to hear it
I agree. One of the things I realized after switching to Primal was that those cookies, cakes, biscuits, whatever might taste good, but I could never take a pinch of flour and eat it. EW! Definitely a disconnect there.
Almond flour on the other hand…mmm.
maybe you became sick and weak from vegetarianism because you are mentally sick and weak? And don’t you think that eating dead animal carcasses is bit cave-man like?
There are plenty of RAW protein sources that are far more digestible than dead meat. i.e.: hemp, chlorella, spirulina, organic cage-free eggs, etc.. etc.. etc..
I have been a veggie for years and am stronger than you will ever dream of being.
btw, what is so indigestible about spouted hulless oats?
The “cave-man like” thing is the whole POINT, Jay. Our genes didn’t evolve just because our minds did. They still expect the same things that Grok ate – meat, animal fat, and the occasional non-starchy vegetable. We did not evolve to eat grains and we are still not evolved to eat grains, regardless of what you think.
While you read “The Vegetarian Myth,” I’ll have a rare steak, thanks.
I wanted to go vegan. At one point I believed the health arguments because I didn’t know any better. It made me fatter and sicker. You can’t live on just green plants because they don’t contain enough calories and you’d have to do nothing but eat all day. You need an energy-dense source of food. If you’re vegan, that has to be grains.
The tendency for type 2 diabetes runs in my family, and I was already showing outward signs of metabolic syndrome. I lasted maybe two or three months on a vegan diet because it was making me fatter and sicker.
By the way, you can’t separate the mental from the physical, because the brain is a bodily organ just like your heart or stomach. If vegetarianism makes people mentally sick and weak that’s hardly anything to recommend it.
I have a way better time digesting minimally-cooked meat than I do seeds or algae or bacteria (spirullina is blue-green bacteria). And I would rather eat things that are easily obtained through low-tech means than be dependent on the factory food system for a bunch of germs in a capsule.
Sprouts are a whole nother matter from unsprouted seed. In that case you’re eating a plant, not a grain anymore.
Got any more insulting questions? Try this: keep them to yourself.
How can you “enjoy your life” if your diet is plaguing your overall health and vitality? (By the way, this is coming from a vegetarian. A grainless vegetarian.)
Hey Emily, I have a vegetarian friend who is curious about eating Primally but does NOT want to start eating meat. Any advice for her?
While I’m sure Mark has plenty, I’ll give you my take. The obvious one is to emphasize vegetables and cut out grains. Cutting out grains is definitely the most important and often the most difficult for vegetarians. Refined grains should definitely go first, followed by wheat/bread products, and then whole grains (oats, quinoa, buckwheat, etc.)
Mark’s “big ass salad” works for vegetarians, too. Omit the meat and replace with avocado or raw nuts and use an oil or nut based dressing (I make my own). Basically, center your meals around vegetables (not starchy vegetables), especially nutrient-dense leafy greens, and add things like organic eggs and raw nuts and seeds. Eggs from your local farmer’s market are not only more humane but exceptionally more delicious than organic store-bought eggs. I don’t do much dairy, but I think the best choice is organic plain greek yogurt.
Raw vegetables and raw nuts are great, easy primal/vegetarian snacks. And while Mark has had some qualms with the Raw Vegan diet, a ton of it is primal-friendly and obviously vegetarian. It involves making protein and fat rich foods out of raw nuts, seeds, herbs, and oils. It’s worth looking into.
Hope that was some help!
As a vegetarian, I’m curious about what works for you, Emily, too. I agree with basing one’s diet around vegetables, but do you just accept a lower-protein diet than meat-eating primalists, or do you compensate otherwise?
what is indigestible about spouted hulless oats, and btw, quinoa is not a grain but a seed and is highly digestible if sprouted.
Good call. And cocaine addicts enjoy the drug-induced euphoria. Same with Heroin users. Addicts crave the junk their addicted to, just as I used to crave bread and pizza crust and breakfast cereal (made from whole grains and minimal added sugar no less) when I was addicted to them. Now that I’ve cured my addiction, I don’t find those “foods” appealing any more. AND I feel so much better than when they were a part of my diet that it is unthinkable to me to even imagining a return to those “foods.” I used to get such bad gas from consuming grains that I used to look at my schedule to check when the next appointment for someone to come to my office was just to make sure I didn’t create an embarrassing situation-if you know what I mean. Same with my commutes by car. If I knew in advance that I had to pick up someone that day, I’d hold it in so to speak (which is quite uncomfortable on a 30+ minute commute!). Since going Primal, I’m now liberated from that grain-induced problem!
Ha, now that you mention it, I notice that I never have bad gas anymore, whereas it used to be bad enough that I’d have “exit strategies” for work or school because holding it in was so painful.
Alas, I still crave grains – specifically bread. But wheat makes me feel bloated and strangely sleepy when I gorge, so it’s not TOO hard to avoid anymore. Thank goodness I never liked rice or corn in the first place, though.
Yeah you’re right! I don’t get bad gas anymore. At ALL. It used to be the worst part of a coast-to-coast flight was holding it in for 6 hours, but since I went primal, I rarely even have gas, and when I do it doesn’t clear a room.
Grains do not taste good. Save for piping hot bread out of the oven, most grains need flavor enhancement from sweeteners like sugar or sucralose or fats like butter or olive oil to be palatable. Does anybody eat just pasta without sauce or unsweetened cereal without milk? Nope. On the other hand, meat, fruit, and some vegetables can be enjoyed plain.
I love the consistency, smell and taste of bread. And I do enjoy what it brings to a sandwich (grilled cheese!). However I also realize what that stuff is doing to my body, and I have striven to eliminate all grains from my diet. However I allow myself the occasional pizza or one piece of toast with my eggs. Usually rarely, but lately more and more. And I have felt the difference, and am even more resolved to kick the grain/carb habit. This site helps so much in this effort. Like an alcoholic, I know I am never immune from falling off the wagon.
Meat tastes good. Give omnivorism a chance!
Hey, that’s great news — I think I’ll start drinking a gallon of scotch a week again, because I like the taste — thanks! :~)
Have you read the recently published book by Lierre Keith, “The Vegetarian Myth?”
She was a vegan for 20 years. Destroyed her health and the book makes a devastating case against vegetarianism, not only on health grounds, but environmental as well.
Yep, she’s both a radical environmentalist and feminist, and she shows vividly how destructive agriculture is to the planet, and how beneficial free-ranging animals are to the environment.
You might want to check it out.
It’s amazing that some of us wacky lefties actually do use our brains, huh?
I’m going to go have a nice medium-rare steak now, thanks.
Great stuff Mark. Once again had to forward this great post to all my family members!
I have now heard all of the above from people – usually while they stuff their mouths with cake or cookies. I guess the irony of “what about fiber” and lack of vitamins and minerals was lost on them…
So if i eat a bowl of oatmeal, im basically going to die a slow horrible death. Got it.
I read the book and it makes a lot of sense but this is getting crazy. I’ve read people debating the carb count in TOMATOES?!?!?!
I didn’t get that message, the one about the slow horrible death. There’s ample proof that grains were not meant to be digested by humans. You can take it or leave it, but there are a lot of people that I know personally that were just as skeptical as you seem until they went without for a month.
You should try it if you haven’t already. I mean what is 30 days in an avg. lifespan of 77 years?
Not sure about the tomato thing. I haven’t known this site to ever be concerned with counting carbs, just eating healthier carbs.
Healthier carbs should be the first concern. Counting is secondary. Depending on your goals, you may need/want to reduce your carb input. I’ve used the Zone diet in the past to help me portion my macronutrient intake. Helpful, but I would suggest to anyone thinking about the Zone to only treat it as a guideline, and not as a full-on diet prescription. I found all the measuring and meal timing to be too burdensome. The general Primal rules are much better.
I’m with you, Tim, on how carb counting can get ridiculous. That is why, unless you are regimenting your diet for the sake of weight loss, I don’t recommend people do it (and even then not all the time).
Glad you liked the book.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dont-let-the-perfect-be-the-enemy-of-the-good/
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-8020-revisited/
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/will-momentary-compromises-derail-your-efforts/
Uh, so what???? lol
Carb counting is a Low CARB thing, not a paleo thing. It is really only important for diabetics or people who are so carb sensitive that eating fruit makes them ravenously hungry for all carbs, grains, fruits, sugars and other starches.
CARbs in a tomato…
That is basically people who have ruined their metabolism with grains and sugars. Tomatoes are fruit, and they have to take those into account if they are trying to keep their carb intake below a safe (for them) level). This concern is not related to paleo eating except that the diets are similar and they have recipes that they can glean to each other.
As a diabetic, it is in my best interest to carb count EVERYTHING, including tomatoes, which are actually a fruit and quite high in sugar. I might have two tablespoons of chopped tomatoes with a salad, but no more than that because my blood sugar goes through the roof if I do.
Oatmeal’s got one of the highest amounts of phytates of any grain so, long story short, yes.
Now, I love oatmeal (at least, with sweetener in it). In fact it was one of my staple foods in my vegan phase. I was already short on essential minerals and I think the oats just made it worse.
Hi Mark -
Just finishing your book today.
In regards to grains, I’d appreciate your opinion on this product, which I have as part of a morning smoothy:
http://www.ultimatelife.com/CatalogMealBenefits.htm
It is primarily greens, not grains — but it does have millet in it.
Thanks,
Paul
What’s your opinion on soaking grains first, Weston A. Price Foundation style?
Or sprouted grains. I’m curious also.
I tried sprouted bread this weekend, and as Mark pointed out above, it’s very tasty…when slathered with a generous helping of golden-yellow pastured butter.
Taste aside, I think if you don’t have a sensitivity to gluten, then soaked/sprouted/fermented grains overcome some of the main health detriments associated with grains and listed above; that is, they preserve nutrients (unlike polished grains) while getting rid of *most* antinutrients (unlike those “healthy” whole grains.)
But they’re still a bit carby – one slice of toast will run you 14g of carbs, and seriously, who eats one friggin’ slice of toast at a time? That’s 28 carbs for breakfast or a sandwhich, which, while probably much better than white bread, is probably still best used in moderation, like good milk. (Pastured butter, on the other hand, imo can and should be used in nearly everything…)
I’m not Mark, but I think WAPF guidelines for grains are extremely important for folks in poverty who can’t afford a lot of meat and/or don’t have the storage space for perishable whole foods. These folks are going to be heavily dependent on grain, and presoaking that grain in an acidic medium will render it a lot safer.
Very timely for me as well. Thank you. I’ve been struggling a bit lately in figuring out what’s good and bad for my individual system, and this is a great reminder of why I should never ever consider grains. Even if they taste good, they’re not worth it!
I posted this on Twitter, but might as well just place it here…
I think it’s a wise idea to avoid the grains, but when there are two people involved and only one of them is decidedly primal, sometimes the primal person has to make concessions.
In my house, dinner is whatever my wife puts on the table when she cooks. I’m extremely blessed that she is fairly on-board with primal foods, but there are times where we will have pasta or home made pizza… maybe a couple times a month. I think it’s a small sacrifice for me to make in order for her to not feel the burden of *my* dietary convictions when she doesn’t 100% believe in it. It’s a worthwhile sacrifice. Considering how much she and I have both changed our eating habits for the better, I can’t be happier. I don’t want to spend too much emotional effort nit-picking because in comparison, it’s only one small piece of a much bigger puzzle.
That’s what the 80/20 rule is for
If eating the occasional pizza is all it takes for you both to eat healthy the rest of the time, you’re doing quite well.
Absolutley! I have a family of 5 including my mother at home. No one else is “on-board” It makes everything a little more complicated. And you have to weigh your relationships into the mix. I think fundmentalism in any form isn’t a good thing. I still kept grains in the morning for a few weeks, but cut them out completly. I feel better then I ever have in my life! I don’t have interest in making exceptions, except for rare occassions. Beleiveing i am a food addict..cutting out grains and refind sugar is essential! So glad to have found PB and crossfit too!
Good point on the importance of making concessions. My fiance is very nonprimal, and sadly nothing I have been saying or doing has made a dent on his outlook (OK, so he switched from regular to diet coke, sigh). I do all of the cooking, and the primal way of cooking is further made difficult by the fact that he does not eat most veggies, nor many varieties of meat (oh and NO seafood of any kind). Anyway, we try the best we can — I’ll usually make him a potato side that I won’t eat, and buy low-carb tortillas for his beloved chicken fajitas. Thank god he loves steak almost as much as I do.
I was really stressed out in the beginning, but now realize it isn’t worth it since that isn’t helping anyone — if/when he is willing to make a change, I will be thrilled. For now, we do what we can to avoid going to bed angry
Thanks for the insight. I wish I could find myself a decidly primal/paleo-crossfittingesque-wonder-girl to avoid having to make those kinda sacrifices. Pretty damn rare amongst student life though… “ZOMG FREE DOMINOS AT FRESHERS!!”
So where do you go to school?
Haha! very smart!
I almost answered that without even realising.
You’re right. I should give it an honest go for 30 days and see how i feel. Right now i only eat oats for the most part anyway-so hopefully it isn’t too hard.
Sorry for the vague post by the way, i was in a hurry.
Tim – I miss oatmeal, too. I was thinking I might try heating up some almond flour in heavy cream and throwing a few berries in. Who says hot cereal has to be oats?
I miss oatmeal the most.
A couple times a winter I soak my cracked groats and cook them in a slow cooker.
Yummy. But I need a carbo-nap soon after.
I read groats as goats… Funny image
slow cooked cracked goats, mmmmmmmm….
Timely. I ordered a low-carb six dollar burger (per your recommendation) at lunch and they mistakenly gave me a regular six dollar burger. I was going to go ahead and eat the bun, then read this. It’s now sitting in the garbage.
hey marc. could you post some of the great science papers you have written on paleo and grains. thanks man.
Great article Mark,
I’m confused though, what makes the fiber from fruits and veggies desirable?
While I agree with most of the post, Mark fails to include the reasoning behind the article about the benefits of fiber: “It’s a bit of a paradox, but what we are saying is an injury at the cell level can promote health of the GI tract as a whole.”
Only including the words “rupturing”, “banging”, and “tearing” is an emotional appeal that exploits the traditionally negative connotations of these words. I thought dispelling, not reinforcing, traditional conventions was the goal of this site.
Nate, I’m just quoting verbatim the article in Science Daily (and linking it directly so anyone can read it). And yes I AM dispelling CW in that paragraph, since I am clearly questioning the rationale of the those terms (dispelling) as they could possibly apply to good gut health.
Well isn’t banging and tearing muscle fibers through hard lifting what gets them (and us) to grow stronger?
Intestinal lining isn’t muscle fiber. You absorb a lot of substances through it and it interfaces with your immune system so this is not something to play around with.
My husband and I quit eating ALL grains this past March to reduce my triglycerides and improve my husband blood sugar level, and I received the unexpected result of having huge amounts of inflammation leaving my body more flexible than it had been since I was a small child! I am still amazed and thankful each and every day! Unless there are unexpected circumstances, I seriously do not see myself EVER eating grains again, especially wheat. Thanks for the site Mark!
That’s exactly my story. Quit grains, most especially wheat, and my inflammation dropped significantly. It dropped to the point where I don’t have to take meds anymore for IBS and I don’t have chronic foot pain. I now use my foot as a guide for inflammation levels. My body is functioning (and looking) SO MUCH BETTER without grains.
Mark et al.
Forgive for writing this, but I must pose a question.
Mark mentions cereal grains, and other things like spelt, millet, etc. However, are things like brown rice “less bad” for you? I would say it cant be any worse for you than a processed grain like flour.
Please divulge.
The term “cereal” means ALL grains, including rice and corn. It is a term used to describe the seed of any member of the grass family. That is, grains.
if we’re avioding cereal grains, i.e. all seeds of the grass family are we avoiding Asparagus also?
You eat asparagus seeds? Weird. I didn’t know they were edible.
Forgot to mention that Corn and Rice are in the grass family.
Thanks for laying this all out. Keep preaching also it needs to be repeated. I’m coming around on this – have cut way back on them and I’m leaner and feel better generally. But it’s tough in this ADM-centric world of ours it’s tough
If I eat grains only one day, the next day is a digestive disaster.
Any young person who doesn’t yet have IBS, or the like, take heed now. Don’t wait till you develop these conditions.
Wish this site had been around 20 years ago!
Rachel Allen- I second this!! I ate grains most of my life with no symptoms (I’m now 38) and just recently developed IBS. After giving up grains (and beans, sugar & almost all dairy) 2 months ago, I have eliminated my symptoms!
I, too, wish this site had been around 20 years ago!
)
Excellent Post and VERY important. I developed Crohn’s at 23 and put on all kinds of drugs. I’ve since quit grains and the drugs and have had my inflammation levels drop significantly and I literally have no markings that would show that I have Crohn’s anymore.
Don’t wait to quit grains, quit them now especially if you are of European descent. GI will doctors will say diet has nothing to do with it. They are either liars or very misinformed. Diet is EVERYTHING.
Excellant article Mark. I have been turnded on to the Paleo way of eating since reading Neanderthin. I have never felt better after giving up my grains. Potatoes were harder to give up since I am Irish. LOL.
I love your website and your articles are very well written. Here is another site that give more of the bad effects of grains, potatoes, milk, etc.
http://www.earth360.com/diet_paleodiet_balzer.html
I never was a big grain-eater or grain-lover, so scaling back consumption to zero was easy.
Then again… by cutting them out, I discovered just how many grains I had actually been consuming via mindless noshing. A few crackers here, a few chips there…
Once I made the decision to pass them by, I found I was regularly stopping myself from grabbing grain junk because “Oh yeah, I won’t eat that anymore”.
Cutting out snacking by 90% and ditching those sugars/starches/grains made a huge difference in my weight and body composition, even with no change in exercise habits. I am a solid 15 lbs less than what SAD had fixed as my low “do-not-cross weight threshhold”, and yet no cravings.
My body/mind isn’t going wacko trying to revert to its “normal” weight. This **is** my normal weight! It’s so easy it’s unreal. Usually by now – heading into winter – I had always been afflicted with chronic cardio burnout and massive carb cravings. You know, to get back to a supposed “set point” [only to have to lose the flab again the following summer].
Now I have plenty of room in my diet for fats I could never enjoy in the past, plus some new ones I find absolutely delightful (coconut, macadamia oil). That means I am eating foods that I am supposed to be eating to keep everything working properly. I feel great and am now looking forward to focusing on a better exercise scheme, instead of wanting/needing to get away from it all. (I am 5′5″ and 115#)
Grains, it wasn’t even nice knowing ya…
Thanks for the solution to the maize, Mark.
WHAT? Really? Ugh.. Im so ill informed on everything food-wise. I will never go veg or vegan but I can ditch grains no problem.. I need to start from square one. I guess this sites a good start..
I feel so guilty reading this over a bowl of pasta. Tomorrow, a salad is a must.
I’m often amazed at how some people have been primal for so long, yet they fall off the wagon still.
I’m going to write about this on my site.
Honestly I think that some of us are more “addicted” than others. Even though there is a huge burn-out and long-term effects there is pleasure involved initially in eating grains for many people.
It’s like being a drug addict in a society where it’s frowned upon if you’re NOT using it…
Nice Post. I have been off grains for a while and always feel much better without them. No bread, pasta or processed food at all and I still manage to maintain a heavy muscle mass, a solid muscular foundation and very little in the way of cravings at all.
I have read a number of people who enliken no grains to counting carbs. The two are mutually exclusive. I still maintain at least 40% carbs through healthy whole food choices such as yams & potatoes plus a wealth of fruits and veggies. Carbs are not the enemy…processed food IS!
Carbs are the enemy if you’re already halfway to diabetic. It’s great for you if they don’t bother you. Honestly, when I’m low-carbing I find I can get away with some. But too much is too much.
I’ll take Mark’s statements about grain one step farther and say there’s nothing in plant foods that you NEED that you can’t get from animal foods. Plant foods are relatively cheap, and some phytonutrients turn out to be useful to people who are already metabolically damaged, but aside from that… well, there are carnivorous traditional cultures, but no vegan ones. I’m sure there’s a very good reason for that.
WOW! Thanks for laying it all out there Sir Marcus!
After I ditched the grains last June I found out why I was experiencing chronic, low level pain. I even told my sister once that I was really concerned about it.
But the visual proof of not having grains – and lower carbs generally – was my toenail fungus stopped. As in a clear line across my nails that matched in time to my grain cessation. The fungus is still doing a bit of rear guard action, but pretty soon it should be all gone.
On of my fellow nurses was a vegetarian. She told me she finally had to add meat to her diet because her body could
t stand it any more, she was sick and weak all the time.
I have a niece that’s a vegetarian. What’s interesting is that she’s a twin. Her sister is not a vegetarian. You can tell the difference. The veg looks pale and weak and has worse skin. Wish I could talk some sense into her.
It is certainly very easy to be an unhealthy vegetarian or “carbotarian” as I call it. However, we shouldn’t dismiss the possibility of a vegetarian who doesn’t eat grains, eats primarily nutrient-dense vegetables and fat, and plenty of organic eggs. I can say with confidence that I am the healthiest person I know (in person, anyway!) and that’s the diet I follow.
I plan on doing a blog post sometime about the risks of vegetarianism and the way it can still be a healthy diet. While it’s sometimes challenging to maintain great health on a vegetarian diet, there’s a slew of moral and environmental issues that vegetarianism addresses that often gets overlooked on many primal/anti-vegetarian blogs. Let us not forget what (conventional) meat consumption is doing to the planet and to an enormous amount of living creatures.
The moral and environmental issues with the meat industry are huge yes. I believe that’s why we need a huge change in farming procedure. I don’t think people should stop eating meat as a result but rather stop supporting the companies that are causing these issues if they possibly can. The horrors of the meat industry are just one example of the consequences of the money-power-play running behind the scenes of governmental systems. So ultimately we gotta ask, how do we fix the system?
We gotta take the powa back! UUGH!! >:)
The moral and environmental issues, as I’m sure you know, are almost entirely averted by eating pastured meat, eggs, and dairy – that is, by encouraging animal husbandry that truly deserves the name and farming practices that respect the animals that nourish us and give us life (and clothing, and fertilizer, and labor, and and and…) And of course, organic farming is basically impossible without the use of animal waste for fertilizer, and I don’t think egg-laying hens and milk-giving cows produce enough waste to sidestep that fact, which is why vegetarianism is impractical for an environmentally-friendly system of agriculture in the long run. Veganism is especially so.
I guess the main problem lies in the fact that eating animals still involves killing them, which, if it’s as painless and cruelty-free as possible, I don’t personally have a problem with. But, different strokes for different folks, I guess. Also, grass-fed meat/eggs/dairy is damn expensive, but, in my opinion, worth it on a moral level and possibly a nutritional one as well.
Well said. If it’s at all affordable it’s absolutely worth it.
While, in theory, it’s true that, as you say, grass-fed meat is worth it on a moral and nutritional level, not everyone can actually afford to eat that way. The primal lifestyle is, in its ideal form, an expensive one as well. I hope to someday be able to buy food like that, but for now I avoid meat, because I wouldn’t want to eat the meat I can afford.
As opposed to the clear-cutting required in most plant agriculture which, of course, does absolutely nothing to the environment because deforestation isn’t the first step in desertification.
This is the elephant in the living room that no veg*n seems to want to acknowledge. Nobody has to raise an animal in a battery farm. Anybody wanting to raise cabbages has to clear land first.
I absolutely agree with this. Since cutting out all grains and grain derivatives, I have been IBS free. That’s 5 weeks with no IBS. I used to suffer at least once a week, with the most awful, debilitating pain which would leave me curled up on the floor in agony.
Now, meat, fish, veg, limited fruit and limited nuts are what I eat. I am healthy. I live my life deciding what and when to eat rather than food dictating to me.
Great post again Mark!
This post was great to remind me about why I am making these changes, and encouraging me to keep at it. Last night I made us our first real Primal evening meal. But I decided to include things that my husband normally loves – chips, rice and crisps. So I made a roast pork tenderloin, fried cauliflower rice, sweet potato chips and beetroot crisps. My husband was really impressed – even with the meal being grain free.
So flaxseed (linseed), couscous and Quinoa are not grains? i usually use these in recipes instead of rice etc.
I don’t think that grains dissuade consumption, as we can easily digest them, and the whole world eats them every day. They just aren’t best for you.
Alex, couscous is a wheat based food. I can’t remember if it is a form of pasta or a steamed and cracked form but it is wheat based.
Couscous is tiny pasta
Mark, do you think that nuts and seeds are indeed healthy to consume? You make the argument that fibre can be deleterious to health. Yet, nuts are very high in fibre and not easy to digest for many. As a fan of nuts, i am beginning to think they should be avoided. For instance, everytime i look at my fecal matter after having eaten nuts, i noticed numerous bits of nuts, even though i chewed the nuts as best as i could. I think that humans might absorb little nutrients from nuts, and that they may cause more harm than good in that the fibre might damage our GI tract. Your thoughts?
peter, I am a fan of eating nuts. Most people digest nuts (and nut butters) quite easily. Understand, I am not against fiber per se, I am simply saying that we get all the fiber we need from vegetables, fruits and nuts. We just don’t need to get added fiber in any way from grains.
Peter – you might want to look into the Weston Price Foundation’s website (www.westonaprice.org) and read up on how to ‘process’ nuts so that they are more edible. WAPF recommends that nuts & seeds be soaked and dried before consumption. This will neutralize anti-nutrients in the raw nuts. If the nuts & seeds are soaked and dried correctly they become crispy and delicious. Several companies sell nuts like these but they are pricey. Some people I know do all this at home with a dehydrator.
WAPF also recommends that all grains be soaked, fermented or sprouted before being used or consumed. This does neutralize the anti-nutrients that Mark mentioned in his article and it does help in digesting the grains. However, I’ve found from my own experience that this still doesn’t go far enough and that I feel better if I avoid grains.
Alex,
Quinoa and flax are not grasses, they’re still seeds though, they might contain lectins and phytic acid, but couscous is cracked wheat!
Just because the others, who would be starving otherwise are eating them doesn’t mean they are good for you. You can easily digest them if they’re prepared and cooked properly. Not getting sick after the meal is not the sign that the food is beneficial, but that is tolerated by the digestive tract.
“The seed stays intact throughout the digestive process; it is indigestible by design.” – I think you meant to say ‘by chance’ here. Just sayin
Not to open a can of worms.
If you read the article again you’ll understand that it isn’t by chance. It’s a defense mechanism that evolved through the process of natural selection.
But evolutionary mechanisms evolve by chance. There’s no brain in the seed going, “Hey, if I were indigestible, I’d be so much more successful!” and then making it so.
That was fun. Will you give us your best spiel on soy? I’ve heard good and bad things about soy for a long time. What do you have to say?
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/soy-scrutiny/
Hey Mark,
I get the argument against wheat, rye, and barley (especially for Celiac Disease sufferers). What about rice? From what I’ve read and from what my friend who has Celiac Disease, rice is safe and as long as it’s not enriched with a wheat-based additive and you’re sure to wash/polish the rice before cooking (something that all Asian’s do and from what I’ve read, it removes a great deal of the lectins as well), you’re good to go.
Hmm…sounds like Rice might be good for an endurance athlete for post-workout and/or possibly mid-workout replenishment when glucose stores are tapped out (although tubers would work too).
Jon, rice is a great source of cheap carbohydrate that readily converts to glucose. Full stop. Rice is not a good source of any other nutrient. On the spectrum of worst to “least worst” I suppose rice is less offensive than wheat, rye, corn, etc. but only because it is lower in the other antinutrients.
Oh yeah, back when I first gave up grains, I also gave up corn. Throughout my grain relapses, the only time I’ve relapsed on corn was while eating polenta because I didn’t realize that’s what it was I didn’t really have a reason for giving up corn. It just seemed starchy and unnecessary. What’s your opinion on corn?
Benji, corn is as bad or worse than any other grain. Iowa corn growers don’t even eat corn (as quoted in “king Corn” movie)
You know, meat is a touchy subject. Grok was the prey for a long time before he was the predator. When humans finally started eating meat, it was scavenged meat in very small amounts and was usually regurgitated due to food-poisoning. Meat is important. But, sitting down to a huge steak isn’t exactly easy on the digestive system. Small amounts of meat are a much healthier option. Also, large game was a no-no for a lengthy period of time after Grok and his family finally learned to hunt together. Red meat was almost always eaten in small amounts. Seafood wasn’t all difficult to come by, but fish was dangerous to try and catch. Think about it. Bears.
I have no idea where you get your information, but it is certainly in conflict with what most of the records show.
Think about it, Mark. Bears. Maybe he meant that Grok and his kin would have eaten the bears, too, as well as the fish? Yeah, I think that’s what he meant.
On a more serious note: it’s a somewhat controversial issue, but some would attribute the relative absence of large mammals on earth to overhunting by humans in pre-agricultural days. In any case, any anthropologist will tell you that neanderthals, humans, and our immediate ancestors in the homo genus probably subsisted *mainly* on large ruminant mammals, like the aurochs – forerunner of cattle. (Aurochs, aurox, ox, get it?) So I have no idea where Benji gets his info. And, there’s even less reason to believe that they would have eaten “small portions” of Woolly Mammoth steaks (I mean, it’s got ‘mammoth’ in the name, how on earth do you even eat small portions?) because Grok and co. were presumably not tainted by the anti-red meat biases of nutritionists and dietitians…
That idea that humans killed off the megafauna is accepted in many academic circles but is under pretty serious debate in others. Just given the metabolic consequences of eating meat, including the typical hunger levels, I have a hard time believing paleolithic humans gorged on huge amounts of it. You’re just not that hungry on a meat diet, and as low as their fertility rates were, it wasn’t like each tribe had to feed a lot of people.
While we probably killed off a few species of megafauna, I don’t see how we killed them all.
However, climate change was going on when the megafauna were dying off, which is just as likely an explanation for their demise as anything.
Human beings are primates. The primate order is an insectivorous order. Even the so-called “vegetarian” gorillas and orangs pick nits from their fellows and offspring and eat them.
Bugs are meat. I know culinary and religious types don’t want to admit it, but it is. Insects are kingdom Animalia, period, full stop.
We were eating meat long before we started scavenging kills. By the way, we still eat our meat rotten. That’s what “aging” means.
Dana,
Just a quick note on this. I agree. Insects are meat. But according to what I’ve read about Dian Fossey’s observations, the insect eating by primates is a social/cultural thing. It’s not done for pure nutritive purposes.
There is an interesting article in today’s NYtimes.com about the megafauna issue. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/science/24fauna.html
Could you maybe also do a post on dairy? I just showed this to all my non-paleo friends who were like wtf….why no grains? The next step I need is to also show them why I limit dairy. Thanks so much for your work!
I would also love to see this. I already ate mostly fruits/veggies/meat before I went full paleo, but I also indulged in greek yogurt, cheese, and the occasional slice of bread with tuna. I now have an awesome resource to point people to when they ask about my lack of grains, but still don’t have a really definitive, consolidated one for dairy.
“but the fundamental problem with grains is that they are a distinctly Neolithic food that the human animal has yet to adapt to consuming.”
>> Correct but there is a problem with your theory. There is a percent of population that is now ADEPT to eating grains. I know of a few people who can have a whole wheat bagel and bounce of walls. As for me, it puts me to sleep which is why I tend to avoid it as much as possible.
It’s a simple test. Eat a meal consisting of grains and notice how you feel. If you feel tired, grains aren’t for you. If you feel fine… you are one lucky ba**ard!
FitJerks, adept at eating grains is an interesting choice of words. Many people are adept at it but have still not adapted to it. Read some of the comments above from people who thought they were “adept” grain eaters for years, but only after they cut grains did they realize the impact grains had had on them. I say we are all unadapted to eating grains – it’s just that some of us manifest problems immediately while others (like myself) take 30 or 40 years to manifest.
And it’s not a simple test. I felt fine after every grain meal I ever ate. It was only after giving up grains that my mild arthritis disappeared, my occasional IBS disappeared and other subtle issues that I had chalked up to “age” or stress disappeared.
Fitjerks, its interesting how your words are literally a copy and paste of what Poliquin says about carbohydrates. Like Mark says, it may take YEARS for symptoms to manifest. I literally had the same issue as Mark with the occasional IBS, just though it was stress. Always seemed to happen when I was travelling too…fun stuff. Glad I figured all this stuff out early (22 years old, Primal for over a year now). Whether you “feel” anything from grains why bother consuming them when you could use those calories some much more efficiently by getting more from Fruits/Veggies?
Just because they don’t get tired doesn’t mean anything. A meal shouldn’t leave you bouncing off the walls anymore than it should leave you wanting a nap.
Caffeine makes you bounce off walls too. Doesn’t mean you should consume it all the time. If a food’s going to make me immediately experience an energy surge I’d ask myself what it’s doing to my hormone and neurotransmitter levels. And I probably wouldn’t like the answer.
Mark
would love to hear you opinions on sprouted grains and rice a la Weston Price, Nourishing Traditions
Hi Mark,
Thanks for this post. We had our first child nine months ago. Since then it’s been pretty much nothing but homemade baby food (fruits and vegetables) and breast milk (Tried rice once. Very constipating). During that time I have also taken to reduce my grain consumption and introduce more fruits and veggies.
For a while I thought my IBS and other digestive issues were due to a fructose sensitivity, but what I’m now finding is that reducing grains has help more than reducing fruits. I’m also learning more about salycilates. Have you done any research on that yet?
Anyway, as our baby grows, we are feeling intense pressure from our doctor to introduce grains into her diet (because doc claims she cannot get enough calories from fruits and veggies) and from the Italian grandparents who can’t wait to introduce her to pasta.
And quite honestly, the reason I haven’t eliminated grains completely from my diet is the cost. I’m finding it hard to entirely replace those calories with fruits and veggies without spending much more money. Same thing with my daughter. As she needs to eat more and more food, it’s very tempting to introduce grains for cost reasons.
Thanks for listening!
If you are feeding your baby breastmilk on demand she/he is getting all the calories she/he needs! Even at one year and beyond babies do not “need” grains or even really that much extra food. It is not uncommon for exclusively breastfed children to get around 80-95% of their calories from breastmilk at one year. Your child will be leaner than other children but that isn’t a bad thing.
Oh yeah, eat more fat.
We are Italian as well so I know what you mean about the grandparents! We love to throw grammy’s bolognese sauce over grilled eggplant and zuchinni! mmm. mmm. mmm! The kids love it b/c they’ve been raised to think eggplant and zuchinni’s are kid food. Our daughter (11) didn’t figure out that most kids wont eat such things until it was too late and she was already in love with them! As far as grammy goes, as long as we’re eating her home made sauce, she’s usually cool with it!
Also, Replace those calories with more fat. Our 11 year old plays very competitive club sports and requires enough calories to fuel her demanding (but rewarding) energy out put; Our 15 month old has just (in the last few months) begun really exploring his taste buds. Both love almond butter on bananas, ham and cheese slices, sliced tomatoes and mozarella, mashed cauliflower w/butter and one of their favorites- wild rice w/plain greek yogurt (true wild rice-which I believe was given the thumbs up by Mark in a previous post- not the wild rice blend). Hope some of those options prove helpful and Good Luck!!
I’m going to add this post to my bookmarks, and pull it back up the next time I begin to forget that grains are NOT good for humans. Thanks, Mark!
Cutting out most grains has definitely improved my health (fat loss, strength gain, and asthma symptoms gone). Recently I’ve added back in small amounts of oatmeal with no negative effects. I’m intrigued by the positive health benefits of beta-glucan in particular. This complex polysaccharide has been associated with improving immunity, reducing insulin resistance, reducing appetite, and lowering LDL levels (see http://bit.ly/4ooc2K and http://bit.ly/1WEuO3). If you don’t like or don’t want to eat oatmeal, you can also get beta-glucan from mushrooms, or take as a supplement.
Interestingly, the gluten in oats doesn’t seem to cause problems for most people who are gluten intolerant (http://bit.ly/2Iotzo).
Am I “grain apologist”? Maybe.
For those of you who miss oatmeal, why not experiment and see how it effects you? I totally agree that humans don’t NEED grains for health.
Mark -
I do P90X, which I know you were involved in creating, and in fact P90X recommends adding whole grains into our diets. For example, oatmeal is a now a breakfast staple for me. Or, take a look at Tony Horton’s list of top 10 snacks (http://www.howtobefit.com/tony-horton-top-snacks.htm). Grains are definitely not a large majority of my current diet, but I do eat them.
So, definitely being a non-expert, how should I be interpreting this (very conflicting) information/advice ?
Thanks.
dfgh1234, do most of the P90X workouts and eat Primally!
Ok. I’m game. I’m on the “FatShredder” nutrition phase (remember that?) and so my protein to carb ratio it pretty high already, and if I replace a few grain based items with healthy fats and veggies I will be moving close to your primal guidelines.
But I have a follow-up question: Regarding the concept of the post-workout Recovery Drink (3:1 or 4:1 carbs:protein ratio), would you still recommend that ? The RD was/is highly recommended within P90X, yet it will be difficult to keep carbs below ~80g if using a RD.
dfgh1234, re: P90 I was paid to develop a drink for a workout program that called for intense work every day. That’s my profession (developing supplements to fit a demographic and a budget). That meant replacing carbs after every workout. The P90 program is NOT the same as the Primal Program. In PB, I don’t recommend training that hard every day, nor do I recommend eating that much carbohydrate every day…but if you choose to do P90X, you probably need to replace those burned carbs. Hence the RD.
In response to your second reply: Thanks very much Mark.
We are Primal P90Xers…the primal diet is so much yummier anyway!!
I should disclaim… I do not P90X every day, so I don’t have a need for RD’s. I have no muscle confusion…Tony Horton would be so disappointed! Either way, I have created my own schedule and incorporate the work outs into it. My fave’s are the core, plyometrics, and the yoga x. Once or twice a week, I challenge my 11 year old to 10 “sprint races”. We mark off point start and finish and she always kicks my butt! BUT, we have a great time!
I forget where I read this (probably a WAPF thing) but children fed oatmeal had significantly more cavities than children who ate non-grain based foods for breakfast, all other things being generally equal. Oats still have anti-nutrients in them and do not have that much in the way of nutrition to give back, even when soaked a la Weston A Price, especially compared to an egg.
It depends on the children. I found a free copy online of Price’s Nutrition and Physical Degeneration book and he found isolated cultures eating oatmeal. But they also had access to high amounts of dietary minerals. If you’re going to eat something chock-full of phytates (and oats are like that), you need to up your fat and mineral intakes to balance it out. Most people don’t do that because the heavy grain eaters are also cutting back their fat intake.
As a skinny SOB, I need to consume starch to remain as ‘thick’ as possible. What do you recommend – potatoes?
Mark,
My dad is always coming up with different reasons of why we should eat grains. He says man has been eating grains since the start of time. Every time I tell him, to a degree, exactly what you said in today’s post. That was perfect timing because there was solid evidence why grains are the worst! He did ask a question ,though, that I couldn’t answer. What did Grok do in the winter when there wasn’t a lot of readily available fruits and veggies?
Grok ate meat during the winter (and, well, all year round). Maybe some roots as well. Grains are only available naturally (i.e. not farmed) one or two months out of the year, and those months are not during the winter.
Although you probably won’t see it stated as such on this site, there is no dietary requirement for any kind of plant matter in the human diet. There are examples of modern day hunter-gatherers who lived entirely on meat. There are also examples of HGs who lived/live mostly on plants, seafood, and/or small animals, and they don’t rely on grains either, instead going for the roots, shoots, fruits and leaves of plants.
While I generally agree with what Icarus wrote, I’d clarify that modern HGs have been know to exist almost exclusively on Animals (not just meat). In fact, it is dangerous to only eat the meat (i.e., animal muscle tissue) and not also the organs if you are not consuming vegetables or coconut oil. We need fat and their nutrients, which are found at much higher ratios in the organs rather than in the muscle.
That’s what I meant… I forgot that most people don’t consider “meat” to include organs or fat. Meat is a weird word, anyway; some don’t consider it to include poultry or fish, even. (I do.) You are right in that fat mostly hangs outside the organs (visceral fat like leaf lard) and on the back (subcutaneous fat like bacon grease) on wild animals, although of course the most prized cuts of meat, like rib or loin meat, will contain a good amount of fat as well. Fat-soluble vitamins are stored when consumed in excess, so much fat at every meal and occasional liver (high in vitamins A and K2, and a bazillion other nutrients) is definitely recommended IF one were to try to live this way, as some no-carbers do. Which I think is kinda unnecessary, but definitely do-able if done properly.
Thanks for the clarifications, though.
I’ve been wondering, grains are indeed bad to eat, but how about oatmeal baths ?
Lazar, I would DEFINITELY not eat an oatmeal bath.
Lol, ok, I was concerned that maybe grains are bad for the skin also. Guess not
So how do you answer to Asians (Japanese in particular)who have white…I mean really white rice, as a regular part of there diet. I mean, they are some of the healthiest people in the world and live the longest.
The famous longevity of Japanese people through their lifestyle choices may be attributed to many factors e.g copious amounts of fish, stress mitigation… Yes they live long and yes they eat lots of white rice but correlation does not imply causation. Imagine how long they might live if they didn’t eat all that rice!
They still get hardening of the arteries and that’s not due to Westernization. A study was done after WWII comparing autopsies of Japanese and American soldiers and found roughly equivalent levels of artery-hardening. There were more Japanese eating traditional diets at that time than there are now.
And believe it or not there’s a diabetes epidemic brewing over there. Funny how it hasn’t picked up much press here.
I’m not sure what their traditional fat intake is like but they eat so much seafood that they probably get a relatively high mineral intake compared to us. They also eat a lot of vegetables, and they love pickled foods. These all make a difference.
Oh, I should add that the traditional way of making rice over there is different from how we do it. They wash their rice and soak it overnight. I don’t know how many antinutrients are left in polished white rice, but soaking it in vinegar, an acidic medium, would do away with whatever was left after the bran was removed.
Dana Carpender, a low-carb writer, says she’s heard that rice causes a lower insulin response than other grains. I don’t know if that’s true but it’s an interesting idea. If I’m in ketosis from low-carbing and eat rice I can usually stay in ketosis as long as I don’t eat huge amounts.
excellent post as always, much fire.
I have two very tangential issues to raise.
Grains are equally bad if not worse for our pets, and I would urge anyone listening to find one of the grain-free, by-product free pet foods out there for your little guys.
On a much more frivolous note, i’ve been good about ditching grains but there is an undeniable, near primal, male urge to turn anything into a sandwich.
I’m down to ezekial sprouted grain english muffins with all excess muffin forked out–just enough crust to hold pastured butter and then it becomes my blt or egg mcmuffin or my po’ boy sausage with mustard.
man’s gotta have a sandwich.
Better yet, ditch the whole kibble idea and feed fresh, whole foods in the form of meat, edible bone and organs to your canine and feline friends! Anyone looking to do so, can contact me privately for help. I’ve fed a “primal diet” to my dog pack and one cat for over 9 years now.
Laura,
I am interested in your pet’s diet (I have 2 cats); please send info. Thank you.
Blue whale jerky?
I saw this posted above but didn’t see a response unless I missed it.
“if we’re avioding cereal grains, i.e. all seeds of the grass family are we avoiding Asparagus also?
Kitty wrote on November 6th, 2009Reply”
is Asparagus ok? I just want to check since I love it. I could basically have it at every meal and be happy haha.
Thanks in advance, Rob
I guess people are too lazy to type “asparagus” into Google and select the Wikipedia page reference to it. From that page: “Asparagus officinalis is a flowering plant species in the genus Asparagus from which the vegetable known as asparagus is obtained. It is native to most of Europe, northern Africa and western Asia.[1][2][3] It is now also widely cultivated as a vegetable crop.”
I.E., asparagus is not a grass. Eat up!
PS. Why this question in particular? ‘Cause it looks a little bit like grass?
Hmmm, according to what I’ve read, Asparagus is a grass. It might be outdated info, but that’s what I read. Now WHERE I read it is anybody’s guess. I read all over the net and books by the handsful so… I ask questions. and when I go to tell someone what I read here, I won’t be able to tell them where I got that either. It’s a curse, I can remember WHAT I read, but not WHERE I read it.
“I can remember WHAT I read, but not WHERE I read it.”
Welcome to the information overload revolution.
I even preserve a lot of stuff. You should see the mess that’s my [Mac] desktop, etc.
Asparagus is a shoot – the very young, very early protrusion of a plant stem. Shoots are nearly always mentioned as one of the plant foods that hunter-gatherers, modern and ancient, would have pretty easy access to, so feel free to eat up.
Also, being that it’s a green vegetable, it’s very, very low in carbohydrate, even fiber, because the plant is so young. Much lower than any grain, which grow quicker because, as annual plants, they have very short lifespans. It’s also one of my very favorite veggies, so I may be a teensy bit biased, but nothing I’ve said is untrue, so, again, eat up.
I took my kid to the grocery store the other day. It’s great going through the produce aisle and telling him about all of the vegetables and fruits (even though it’s still a struggle to get him to try them). We’ve nicknamed Broccoli the King of All Vegetables, and Asparagus the Queen of All Vegetables.
I like that! Mind if I copy cat?
This post is a good read and your line is a great way to get kids on the stuff. There might be a few people swiping your line now!
I ditched gluten over 6 years ago and had a fantastic improvement in health. I soon realized that I feel even better when I avoid all grains and sugars. My diet now is mostly paleo-like.
Oatmeal often contains high amounts of gluten from cross contamination. If one has celiac disease or gluten sensitivity it is recommended that only certified gluten free oats be consumed. But it is a grain so I avoid oats too.
Article about The Dark Side of Wheat http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Dark-Side-of-Wheat—New-Perspectives-on-Celiac-Disease-and-Wheat-Intolerance&id=1818855
I have a question about your anti-toxins section. As veggies are also plants, shouldn’t they have massive anti-toxins also?
This has been perplexing me for a while. It’s clear that the seeds would really not want to be eaten, but shouldn’t the arms and legs of plants also have a defensive mechanism?
We’ve clearly seen that in nightshades and what not… so how does that work into the picture?
SJ, we’ve been eating fruits and vegetables for millions of years and have truly adapted to the compounds found in some of them (even though many don’t really resemble the original plant forms because we have selectively grown them for sweetness and taste).
These compounds (phenols like flavonoids and ellagic acid or organosulfides like sulphorophane, indols like allicin, etc) may have been part of those plants defenses, but for us they have antioxidant and other protective benefits because we adapted to them. Grains and legumes have defensive compounds to which we have NOT yet fully adapted.
Folks are mistakenly listing quinoa as a grain. Quinoa is not a grain; it’s a seed that contains all of the essential amino acids, so it’s a fantastic source of protein. If one is concerned about potential phytic acid content of quinoa, simply rinse before cooking. As a competitive bodybuilder and mixed martial artist, I eat 2 cups of quinoa every day. Amaranth and raw buckwheat groats also contain all of the essential amino acids, so i would definitely include those are acceptable foodstuffs, though quinoa is the best.
Ok then answer me this?
How am I suppose to make a sandwich?
I don’t do many grains but dang?!?!
Learn not to have sandwiches.
Use lettuce for a wrap. If you must have something that’s more like bread, do a Google search for “oopsie roll.” A lady named Jamie VanEaton worked out her own version of Atkins’s old homemade low-carb rolls using eggs and cream cheese. OK, not primal maybe, but they work in a pinch.
Dennis, why do you assume you need to have a sandwich as part of a healthy diet? A sandwich was always intended just to be a vehicle to eat the good stuff that was between the bread. Why not just eat that? I haven’t had a sandwich for 10 years and don’t miss the concept one bit.
It just makes it easier to carry?!?!? lol
Mark, my thoughts are with the very rigorous workout outs (P90X) 6 days a week, carbs are essential. I know I have to change my thinking, but quite a shift especially when I have a family that thinks I am nuts…
However, I didn’t realize how grains weren’t not a natural dietary process.
A whole lot of new information to digest.
As an undiagnosed celiac for about 45 years, now diagnosed and gluten-free for 3.5yrs+, grain-free for 1yr+, I must mention the importance of KNOWING if you are celiac before going grain-free. Many posts describe symptoms of celiac (bloating, IBS, gas, arthritis etc); going grain-free is great, but if you cheat once in a while you’re undiagnosed celiac/gluten ingestion continues to harm your body and put you at higher risk for GI cancers and lymphomas.
I wish I’d known 20 years ago (at least) about this stuff, too. *wahhh*
My integrative MD finally went full gluten-free 4-5 mos. ago (not sure about grain-free) and notices great improvement in her joints (she notices when she challenges it by eating pizza – she’d previously attributed it to sodium or cheese…).
Also, to the person who asked about introducing grains to an infant, there is discussion in the celiac community to wait until at least 1 yr (Dr. Fasano’s doing a 20 yr clinical trial – only in yr. 2), or discuss this with a good allergist. You might consider your family history. Google “Dr. Fasano baby grains” and/or visit celiac.com for discussions. Not everyone on celiac.com is a gold-standard biopsy proven celiac, btw.
As a celiac I really appreciate this info getting out there to support my current lifestyle choice. Thanks Mark
.
I forgot: even though I’m mostly Paleo, I still eat yogurt. I still have inflammation (latest hsCRP is 6.something, down from 12.something, not sure why). Not sure if it’s the celiac, hypothyroidism, dairy or what. My legs feel full of lactic acid no matter what I try (exercise exaccerbates it). It takes a week to recover from heavy exercise. Any ideas?
Also, this might be of interest to some with grain symptoms relieved by Paleo:
http://www.recognizingceliacdisease.com/21.html
I was always puffy around the middle and grumbling in the intestines until I gave up grains by reading your website. It was like a total change in my shape… All of the sudden my midsection got flat in a hurry and I didn’t feel like crap all the time.
TrailGrrl
I’ve always had a gut feeling that I should just eat meat and vegetables. I don’t feel full and bloated like I do when I eat grains. Since I quit the grains I have felt SO much better, and my cravings for starchy foods have simply disappeared.
I’m just wondering about the marathon runner or the person who needs extreme energy / carbs. They tell me they can’t cut out the pastas or grains. Is there really a reason to eat grain for more energy is there another means to attain the same result?
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Chris: As a Masters All-American marathoner, I can tell you that the Primal approach grains has had a net-zero impact on me, in terms of energy. We cannot overfill our tanks with carbs and expect to gain any benefit from it, right. If all carbs are depleted between 30-120 minutes from the time we start running, does it make sense to carb-load in any event? I don’t carb-load before a race, except to eat Gu Gels immediately before, during, and immediately afte a race. This way, I’m recruiting those carbs for energy when I need them. There is a school of thought that states hat all carbs are gone within 4 hours of ingenstion anyway, so, if we buy into that, why would we carb-load.
All I needed was a viewing of the movie Food Inc and that made me realize how BAD grains are (despite conventional wisdom, I work in health care).
Thanks for the reminder Mark.
PS: I did the whole vegan thing years ago currently paleo and loving it!!
My wife is vegetarian but pretty much eats grains and soy meat replacements. Her cholesterol is through the roof. Ive been trying to get her off of grains for some time, now Ill start trying again.
Mark,
I’m curious if you might do a similar post on legumes. I have seen contradictory evidence that often points to beans being unhealthy for some of the same reasons as grains……..
For those of us who still like grains every so often, may I suggest Xtreme Wellness! High Fiber, Low Carb Tortilla Wraps by Ole Mexican Foods (no, I am not employed by them). Remarkably, they have 5 grams of carbohydrates, 12 grams of fiber and 8 grams of protein for each wrap and are very satisfying. They also contain no sugar, no lard, and no cholesteral. I think they have hit the nail on the head with these.
Too bad they don’t have lard.
Are they flour tortillas or corn tortillas?
I think you might’ve missed the point of this site.
“think about it. bears.”
lmfao.
I agree that we have not evolved to eat grains, but if I’m going to be completely honest with myself, I also admit we have not evolved to eat meat–despite the fact that I continue to eat meat daily.
While I love Mark’s blog and Primal blueprint for helping people with practical dietary re-balancing in a cultural context, it’s hard not to agree with Lauri Forti’s posts on human’s true natural diet from the evolutionary biology perspective:
http://www.ecologos.org/omni.htm
The common thread in paleo/primal and raw diets is the elimination of grains and dairy, which is why I’ve decided to work towards those, instead of elimination of meat.
Not sure what you mean by “it’s hard not to agree with Lauri Forti.” I just went to that site to review her argument. She has her agenda, and I can’t fault her for that, but she has no idea what she’s talking about. None. It’s all typical vegan/vegetarian convoluted drivel. Talons, fangs, claws, etc.
Human beings are primates. The primate order is an insectivore order. Bugs are meat. Look it up. Kingdom Animalia.
We *are* meat-eaters. In fact, we owe our large brains to meat-eating. We’re just not obligate carnivores like cats–we get by with some plant food, like dogs do.
Yet another amazing post Mark!
Wow…you’re asking to do away with centuries of tradition! How would the French (and many other cultures) deal with this and all their traditions of good bread? And…they are overall healthier than we trendy, food-faddish Americans.
The bread and the sweets are why there are any fat French at all–and trust me, there are. But they eat so much more animal fat than we do. If they didn’t smoke, they’d leave us in the dust.
Hi all,
I removed sugar and grains from my diet since January,
stopped fruits since march,
I have been eating non-starchy vegetables,fish,fowl and lamb (not organic or free-range) since June this year.
Started portion control in protein since 15 days to take 59gms protein per day which is my lean muscle mass weight..( as a result I am able to stop eating easily when I am satisfied without uncontrollable feeling of wanting to eat more ,which often lead to binge eating…)
I feel like my insulin level has come down a lot in 15 days ..I was showing symptoms of hyperinsulinemia last year .Not anymore..no more binge eating these days.Also I eat only two or three meals a day.
My fasting blood sugar shows 85mg/dl and postprandial BS is between 97-105 mg/dl after any meal .
Blood pressure 115/75 mmHg ( last year 130/90 )
But today my lipids showed the worst result..
TC- >500.. (checked three times) , last year it was140 mg/dl
TG- 132 mg/dl
HDL- 42 mg/dl
I am an Asian male of 38 years..
Resistance training with weights ,also 30-40 minute walks most days of the week.
Could anyone please explain why my lipids could be at such dangerously abnormal levels?
Does it take so much time for lipids to become normal ?Should I wait for a few more weeks and check again?
Thanks, Krish
( just don’t want to go on medication )
Krish… if you go to the forum on this site and check it out there are some posts on blood pressure. Apparently when your HGL is low it throws off the calculations they use to figure out your total Cholesterol levels. There’s more detailed information in the forums, so really… go there and check it out!
OK, overall, there’s probably no reason to worry about your cholesterol. The overall number could mean anything from day to day because every cell in your body makes cholesterol. Your body needs it, so it keeps it around. Could be that in your particular instance it’s using all that cholesterol as repair material for whatever damage you’d done to yourself in the past.
Meanwhile let me share some recommendations from Dr. Michael Eades’s new book. Check these:
Apo-B: If this goes down but your LDL stays the same or goes up, it means your LDL particle size is larger, which is a good thing.
Lp(a): Below 30mg/dl
HDL vs TG: Divide your TG number by your HDL number. If the result is less than 5, that’s also a good sign.
Or you could ask your doc to get the lab test that counts LDL particles directly, because the usual method is to use an equation that, as the other commenter stated, is skewed by low triglycerides. Direct count of LDL is expensive, though, and your insurance may or may not cover it.
You could also try eating more saturated fat and cholesterol, odd as that sounds. If you’re eating it, your body doesn’t need to make as much of it.
what about alcohol? is it really a bad thing to consume?
Not to be glib or snarky but, it’s a toxin is it not?
A toxin is by definition a “bad” thing to consume. How bad may depend on dose, and body type and other factors, but it’s probably more unhealthy than, say, Milk.
Different toxins do different things. I was reading a paleo blog yesterday where they were talking about that. Seems most mammals enjoy getting intoxicated and pursue it whenever they can. And our bodies are well-equipped to process alcohol, whereas they are not equipped to process phytic acid or enzyme inhibitors, which are the toxins present in grains.
And let’s not forget herbal medicine, which we have used for most of our species history and which depends on self-defense toxins present in many plants.
Grains are bad? What? That is beyond ingorant.
The last time I checked wheat germ had:
*protein
*ALA fatty acids
*vitamins B1, B3, B6
*vitamin E
*folic acid
*potassium
*riboflavin
*zinc
*calcium
*magnesium
*maganese
*selenium
*iron
*phosphorous
*and the compund called octacosanol (which helps energy)
In fact wheat germ is one of the most healthful things you can eat. It is loaded with nutrients.
Sorry, grains are not bad……..
Ummm, Jane…I’ll bypass the “beyond ignorant” diss. Did you not read any of the 211 comments prior? Did you not read the post itself? Your suggesting wheat germ is “one of the most healthful things you can eat” tells me you either work for a wheat germ company or drank heavily their KoolAid somewhere along the line. This is perhaps the most anti-grain site you will ever find. I doubt I’ll change your mind. Rest assured you won’t change mine.
And insulin definitely will not promote fat atorage in the presence of a caloric deficit. That’s a fact. Lyle McDonald says it, and backs it up.
If insulin is present in the bloodstream at sufficient levels, yes, it will promote fat storage. That’s its *job.* It’s a storage hormone. Calories have nothing to do with it. Over and over I talk to fat people who say they eat very little and yet they can’t dump their fat stores. I have experienced this myself. Insulin is the reason. As long as it’s elevated, REGARDLESS OF YOUR CALORIC INTAKE, you will not lose weight.
Try looking at the reverse to understand this: how many fat type 1 diabetics have you ever met, who couldn’t blame it on an incorrect insulin dose?
You can lead people to water, Mark… but they’re still going to choose the soda.
Love ya, man. Don’t let the tofurkeys get you down.
Come on guys, let’s tell it like it is. Let’s keep it real. If you do not create a calorie deficit , you will not lose fat. If you significantly up the calories, you’ll gain weight .
It is all about portion sizes. Remember portion sizes, nor “eating like Grok”. Many persons get fat off of healthful food , many remain slim on junk food.
You can eat like Grok all you want , but will get fat, or not lose weight if your calories and portion sizes are too large.
Portion sizes.
So my being able to eat almost three thousand calories a day of low-carb food and still lose weight doesn’t mean anything to you? I’m a hundred pounds overweight, by the way. (The only reason I am is I keep jumping off the wagon. I blame no one but me, I’m just “telling it like it is.”)
Wow, let me guess… you haven’t read “Good Calories, Bad Calories” by Gary Taubes yet?
Synopsis: A compilation of decades (pushing a century and a half, if memory serves) of research that refute that exact, ridiculous premise (among others).
Caloric deficits do not work. Thermodynamics and metabolism are not so simple-minded. If portion sizes were the key, everyone who ever tried a caloric-deficit eating plan would lose weight.
(Oh, and is coming to my website and leaving trollish comments really necessary? I think not. Let’s just be civil, okay?)
I have news for you, guy, a caloric deficit is the ONLY way to actually LOSE fat.
There is no other mechanism. Yes, all of those who lost weight created a calorie deficit.
Stop peddling snake oil salesman stuff. Taubes is a disingenuous cherry picking fraud. About 40 years of accumulated research shows calorie deficits work.
Doesn’t matter if you eat like Grok, eat too many calories – you WILL gain weight.
Prove it. Calling Taubes names does nothing but discredit you. Proof. Real proof held up by the experiences of real people.
I’m 5′6″ and in the 240s weight range and sedentary. According to your low-fat diet quacks I should be eating something like 1000-1500 calories a day. I don’t have to eat that little. I can eat three full meals a day and the weight still starts coming off. And I don’t exercise more either. There are benefits to the right kind of exercise, but weight loss isn’t one of them unless you’re killing your lean mass.
Obviously, you haven’t paid attention to the science behind fat loss. I call troll.
Those 40 years of accumulated research are based on faulty premises which cannot be supported with current data. Try reading recent research and you’ll find a very different picture.
But as you’re a troll, I doubt you’ll do anything of the sort. Keep peddling your grains, honey. I’m not buying.
You can eat at McDonald’s and be ripped. Just don;t eat too many CALORIES. You CAN lose fat on McDonald’s.
Spurlock gained fat. You know why? he ate too many calories. Plain and simple. About 5,000 – 6,000 a day.
5,000 calories of Grok food would ALSO make you fatter than a you know what.
WE are already stressed out with the work we have. I can’t eat 8 tiny PORTION SIZES as you say throughout the day, I am a normal human being that can have say 4-5 meal max heartily . I can’t carry a journal that counts what i eat, the number of calories etc. and get stressed about it. If you even know how a grok eats, he doesn’t need 5000 calories to stay full, he’ll eat whenever he’s hungry and
drink when thirsty, thats how human beings evolved for millions of years. Guess what Steroids,pills,supplements would just be better than eating at McD to get ripped or lose fat. but thats not the point, its about natural,healthy living.
40 yrs of accumulated BS in your gut that you call “research” is better than how our DNA was designed to be for 40,000 + yrs?
Spurlock consumed too much sugar and vegetable oil. I can lose fat eating at fast food places–I ditch the buns, avoid the fries, and don’t touch the sugary drinks.
A bunless Baconator with Caesar side salad at Wendy’s is one of my staple going-out meals when I’m low-carbing. Yum, yum, yum.
I personally believe in quality not quantity. I’m not about “losing weight” I’m about being strong and healthy. If I’m hungry I’m going to eat as much paleo food as I need WITHOUT fear of “gaining weight” because it just doesn’t happen when you eliminate grains from your diet.
Been there done that, everything but fruitarian and I’ll tell you this is the only way to go.
Grain free and loving it
Thanks Michelle .I will try that.
Griff and Dana Lyle McDonald PROVES THE both of you wrong.
Look up his articles. Lyle knows his stuff. Maybe if you stopped eating 3,000 calories you would not be overweight……..
Just a thought.
Jane, I’ve lost 50 pounds in three months doing nothing but eating low-carb. Apparently Lyle doesn’t know his stuff when it comes to people with metabolisms like mine.
Let me give you a free clue: You won’t succeed with your “arguments,” such as they are, on this site. Everyone here is wise to the idiocy of conventional nutritional thinking, and isn’t going to be convinced back. So give it up, honey – you don’t know what you’re talking about.
And to demonstrate that you’re not going to convince me, I’m not going to read or respond to anything else you write, because frankly, I have far more important things to do with my time than waste it on a CW troll. Bye-bye now.
The bottom line , no calorie deficit, no weight/fat loss.
You can eat like Grok all you want, 5,000 calories of Grok cuisine or ANY cuisine will result in FAT GAIN.
No caloric deficit , no fat loss.
The end. Look up Lyle McDonald.
It seems like almost every thread I’ve ever read on the internet has ended in some heated argument.
I agree that it is annoying and sometimes infuriating to be preached to about nutrition by a person who has no concept of a variety of metabolic rates and conditions.
However, not everything that isn’t stated in this site qualifies as conventional wisdom. Many of the people who comment on these threads tend to just be repeating what they’ve read here or elsewhere, and that is how conventional wisdom develops and becomes a problem.