Why Grains Are Unhealthy
I find that grain bashing makes for a tasty, but ultimately unsatisfying meal.
You all know how much I love doing it, though. But no matter how often I sit down to dine on the stuff (and I’ve done it with great gusto in the past), I always leave the table feeling like I left something behind. Like maybe I wasn’t harsh enough about the danger of gluten, or I failed to really convey just how much I hated lectins. If I didn’t know better, I’d think the mere mention of grains was eliciting a crazy insulin-esque response and throwing my satiety hormones all out of whack. I was filling up on anti-grain talk, but I just couldn’t fill that void for long.
Well, I’ve got the hunger today, and this time I aim to stuff myself to the point of perpetual sickness. I don’t ever want to have to look at another anti-grain argument again (yeah, right). If things get a little disjointed, or if I descend into bullet points and sentence fragments, it’s only because the hunger has taken over and I’ve decided to dispense with the pleasantries in order to lay it all out at once.
So please, bear with me.
Apart from maintaining social conventions in certain situations and obtaining cheap sugar calories, there is absolutely no reason to eat grains. Believe me – I’ve searched far and wide and asked everyone I can for just one good reason to eat cereal grains, but no one can do it. They may have answers, but they just aren’t good enough. For fun, though, let’s see take a look at some of the assertions:
“You need the fiber!”
Okay, for one: no, I don’t. If you’re referring to its oft-touted ability to move things along in the inner sanctum, fiber has some unintended consequences. A few years back, scientists found that high-fiber foods “bang up against the cells lining the gastrointestinal tract, rupturing their outer covering” which “increases the level of lubricating mucus.” Err, that sounds positively awful. Banging and tearing? Rupturing? These are not the words I like to hear. But wait! The study’s authors say, “It’s a good thing.” Fantastic! So when all those sticks and twigs rub up against my fleshy interior and literally rupture my intestinal lining, I’ve got nothing to worry about. It’s all part of the plan, right?
Somehow, I’m not convinced that a massive daily infusion of insoluble grain fiber is all that essential. And that “lubricating mucus” sounds an awful like the mucus people with irritable bowel syndrome complain about. From personal experience I can tell you that once I completed my exodus from grains, the IBS completely stopped. If you’re not yet convinced on the fiber issue I’ll refer you to Konstantin Monastyrsky’s Fiber Menace. Anyway, there’s plenty of fiber in the vegetables and fruit I eat. Which takes me to the next claim:
“You need the vitamins and minerals!”
You got me. I do need vitamins and minerals, like B1 and B2, magnesium and iron, zinc and potassium. But do I need to obtain them by eating a carb-heavy, bulky grain? No, no I don’t. You show me a serving of “healthy whole grains” that can compete – nutrient, vitamin, and mineral-wise – with a Big Ass Salad. What’s that? Can’t do it? Thought so.
“But it forms the foundation of the governmental food pyramid!”
You know, I should have just started the entire post with this one. I could have saved my fingers the trouble of typing and your eyes the trouble of reading. Governmental endorsements are not points in your favor, grain-eater; they are strikes against you. An appeal to authority (unless that “authority” is actually a preponderance of scientific evidence, of course) does not an effective argument make. Conventional Wisdom requires consistent, steady dissection and criticism if it is to be of any value.
There’s a reason grains are first and foremost on the list of foods to avoid when following the Primal Blueprint: they are completely and utterly pointless in the context of a healthy diet. In fact, if your average unhealthy person were to ask for the top three things to avoid in order to get healthy, I would tell them to stop smoking, to stop drinking their calories (as soda or juice), and to stop eating grains. Period. Full stop. They really are that bad.
I’ve mentioned this time and again, but the fundamental problem with grains is that they are a distinctly Neolithic food that the human animal has yet to adapt to consuming. In fact, cereal grains figured prominently in the commencement of the New Stone Age; grains were right there on the forefront of the agricultural revolution. Hell, they were the agricultural revolution – einkorn wheat, emmer, millet, and spelt formed the backbone of Neolithic farming. They could be stored for months at a time, they were easy enough to grow in massive enough quantities to support a burgeoning population, and they promoted the construction of permanent settlements. Oh, and they were easily hoarded, meaning they were probably an early form of currency (and, by extension, a potential source of income inequality). And here’s the kicker: they were harsh, tough things that probably didn’t even taste very good. It also took a ton of work just to make them edible, thanks to their toxic anti-nutrients.
Toxic anti-nutrients? Do tell.
Living things generally do not want to be consumed by other living things. Being digested, for the most part, tends to interrupt survival, procreation, propagation of the species – you know, standard stuff that fauna and flora consider pretty important. To avoid said consumption, living things employ various self defense mechanisms. Rabbits, for example, with their massive ears, considerable fast-twitch muscle fibers, and nasty claws, can usually hear a predator coming, outrun (out-hop?) nearly anything, and (in a pinch) slash a tender belly to shreds. Blue whales are too big to fit into your mouth, while porcupines are walking reverse pincushions. Point is, animals have active defense mechanisms. They run, fight, jump, climb, fly, sting, bite, and even appeal to our emotions (if you’ve ever seen a puppy beg for a treat with sad eyes, you know that isn’t just accidental cuteness) in order to survive. All the while, predators are constantly evolving and generating adaptations.
Plants, though, are passive organisms without the ability to move, think, and react (for the most part). They must employ different tactics to ensure propagation, and they generally have to rely on outside forces to spread their seed. And so various methods are “devised” to dissuade consumption long enough for the seed to get to where it’s going. Nuts have those tough shells, and grains have the toxic anti-nutrients, lectins, gluten, and phytates. (Of course there are some obvious exceptions. Fruits are tasty, nutritious, and delicious so that animals will eat them whole and poop out the seeds, preferably into some fertile soil. The seed stays intact throughout the digestive process; it is indigestible by design. No seed “wants” to be digested, because this would defeat the purpose. They “want” to be swallowed, or borne by the wind, or carried by a bee to the next flower, but they do not want to be digested.)
Some animals are clearly adapted to grain consumption. Birds, rodents, and some insects can deal with the anti-nutrients. Humans, however, cannot. Perhaps if grains represented a significant portion of our ancestral dietary history, things might be a bit different. Some of us can digest dairy, and we’ve got the amylase enzyme present in our saliva to break down starches if need be, but we simply do not have the wiring necessary to mitigate the harmful effects of lectins, gluten, and phytate.
Lectins are bad. They bind to insulin receptors, attack the stomach lining of insects, bind to human intestinal lining, and they seemingly cause leptin resistance. And leptin resistance predicts a “worsening of the features of the metabolic syndrome independently of obesity”. Fun stuff, huh?
Gluten might be even worse. Gluten, found in wheat, rye, and barley, is a composite of the proteins giladin and glutenin. Around 1% of the population are celiacs, people who are completely and utterly intolerant of any gluten. In celiacs, any gluten in the diet can be disastrous. We’re talking compromised calcium and vitamin D3 levels, hyperparathyroidism, bone defects. Really terrible stuff. And it gets worse: just because you’re not celiac doesn’t mean you aren’t susceptible to the ravages of gluten. As Stephan highlights, one study showed that 29% of asymptomatic (read: not celiac) people nonetheless tested positive for anti-gliadin IgA in their stool. Anti-gliadin IgA is an antibody produced by the gut, and it remains there until it’s dispatched to ward off gliadin – a primary component of gluten. Basically, the only reason anti-gliadin IgA ends up in your stool is because your body sensed an impending threat – gluten. If gluten poses no threat, the anti-gliadin IgA stays in your gut. And to think, most Americans eat this stuff on a daily basis.
Phytates are a problem, too, because they make minerals bio-unavailable (so much for all those healthy vitamins and minerals we need from whole grains!), thus rendering null and void the last, remaining argument for cereal grain consumption.
What, then, is the point to all this grain madness? Is there a good reason for anyone (with access to meat, fruit, and vegetables, that is) to rely on cereal grains for a significant portion of their caloric intake?
The answer is unequivocally, undeniably no. We do not need grains to survive, let alone thrive. In fact, they are naturally selected to ward off pests, whether they be insects or hominids. I suggest we take the hint and stop eating them.
And with that, I’m done. I don’t think I could eat another bite.
Get Free Health Tips, Recipes and Workouts Delivered to Your Inbox
Posted By: Mark Sisson
Very timely, as I read this in my school’s buffet. I’m going to grab some more salad!
Very well said. When I spoke to one of fellow nurses about my dietary habits and explained that i don’t eat grains or potatoes legumes etc, she said “but how do you get your starches” like it was some sort of required food group. And this from a NURSE. She should know better, but many don’t because they just spit out what they are taught. And therein lies our problem…
That’s because she’s learned it from the doctor.
Realize that a lot of these nurses are taking this from actual classes, real professionals and researchers, not reading it online where anybody can post anything quite obviously.
Ummm…well Doctors take about a days worth of nutritional classes in the 4-8 years of medical school. That really isn’t good. Look it up. My husband works at a hospital (security) and has been told how much nutrition classes they’ve had, and they’ve said about 8 hours while they were in medical school. Anything over and above that(for them personally has been little to none), they had to learn on their own. But let me ask you, if you’re not taught to learn about nutrition in school to be a doctor or nurse, then why would you think that’s important to study once out of medical school? You’d probably think, I’ve already been taught what I was suppose to know about the human body, now it’s my job to keep up with the newest drugs coming out, and diseases, not the cause. Because that’s what they teach you in school. They are symptom chasers. I do believe Doctors have they’re place, if you’re having a heart attack, please go see a doctor. But if you have cancer, diabetes, high blood pressure, ect. please contact your local herbal doctor and talk to them about the problem. They will take care of it through natural remides. Also I do suggest coming to this site, and reading the blogs.
How many more hospitals and ER rooms have to be filled, before we get the hint…they don’t know how to cure us. The know how to stick us with needles, and pump us full of drugs our bodies don’t know what to do with. It’s so sad to see. My heart goes out to everyone who takes the Dr.s advice and gets worse. Yes Dr.s have helped people, but if it wasn’t for the conventional wisdom of, you’re sick go see a Dr. we wouldn’t be in that position to be saved. If we just took the time to research, how much greater our lives would be. Yes we’ve had our share of ER visits, my son has a bowl problem, why? Because of his old diet. We’re on a new road, and it’s going to take time, but I’m certain this is the road to recovery. Thanks Mark for posting this, and all the others. Everyone has given me much food for thought.
Thanks Mark – I have been slipping lately and this was the article that I needed to read.
Sometimes reminders like this and a little reinforcement are useful. Thanks for reading, Alex!
A reminder for me about how much I don’t miss them
Hey Mark, new to you, but like what you are saying about no grains, they have never made me feel good. What else to eat besides fruits a veggies, Maybe this brocitis will go away. see ya.
Dan: Try a steak.
For my Sustainability class my group is supposed to brainstorms ways we can cut back on food consumption on campus (ASU). One proposition will be to cut outs grains and sugars from campus. consuming only nutrient-dense food will derive undistorted satiation, and ultimately require less calories.
“if your average unhealthy person were to ask for the top three things to avoid in order to get healthy, I would tell them to stop smoking, to stop drinking their calories (as soda or juice), and to stop eating grains.”
You wouldn’t have no added or processed sugar as a top 3?
Which of Mark’s Top 3 would you have replaced with your suggestion?
Well the more I think about it, my suggestion, no sugar, pretty much covers the no soda suggestion, so I guess that one.
You?
I like the way Mark presented his Top 3 because many people think they’re eating healthy even while they’re drinking juice. While some foods with added sugars may at least provide a tiny bit of nutrition, sugary drinks are really at the bottom of that list.
While the avid readers of MDA already know this, I think it would be more helpful to newbies who still follow CW.
There are plenty of unhealthy people who don’t smoke.
agreed but the statement was if I had to tell people three things to a healthier lifestyle. No one was suggesting that just because you don’t smoke it means your healthy.
“If you’re not a smoker, don’t start” — how’s that — {:~)
Any number of things could make it into the top 3 on any given day. Of course it depends on the audience, too. As Kristin J touched on above, for your average guy or gal on the street just cutting out soda would be a major step in the right direction. But, yes, of course, processed sugar is right up there (and soda sort of covers or implies that).
Sugar is a grain! Right? So no grains covers it.
Well, no, it depends on where the sugar comes from. If it’s from corn syrup or sorghum, then OK. Sugarcane’s a whole different critter.
I think it’d have to be a top four suggestions. Because sugar, no matter where it comes from, is more and more implicated in metabolic syndrome and diabetes due to its fructose content. It also operates as an antinutrient.
I only drink diet (but a lot of it). Am I going to die for different reasons?
This is a perfect reminder- esp with the holidays fast approaching. While I might enjoy a wee bit of quinoa or hummus now and then, my consumption has dropped dramtically over the last 9 months since I’ve been on the PB. Grains really don’t appeal to me any more, thankfully. Excellent post!
Why cut out hummus? It’s not a grain as far as I know.
It would be nice to get a clarification on this since as an Israeli cutting hummus out of my diet would be very close to impossible.
-Rafi
Beans are a no-no on the PB- I just threw them in there since some grains & beans are 20% for me!
There’s no reason to cut out legumes, but they are high in sugar (they’re carby). I’m a vegetarian so I eat legumes on days I don’t eat eggs to get my protein in. Also hummus is the sort of thing where a serving is a tablespoon, so you’re not even really eating that much hummus (or shouldn’t be).
They are a bean…legume. Not allowed on PB dirt
Cordain has a great lecture on how grains (and lectins, of course), are linked to multiple sclerosis. It’s scientific but rather easy to understand.
http://www.youtube.com/user/miladskaya#g/c/7227FC56E6473A9B
Here is a good reason for eating grains, they taste good. Stop worrying about your diet and enjoy your life. Give vegetarianism a chance.
Grain-based foods do taste and smell good, I agree. But hardly a good reason to eat them regularly. Gonna have to do better than that.
This post (Grain Relapse) is perfect timing, as I have been slipping into daily consumption again. Back on the wagon now!
G=G (can’t even bring myself to spell it out), glad you brought this up. That was to be one of my other major points under “no good reasons to eat grains.” They taste terrible. The only way to make grains even reasonably palatable is by adding sugars, spices, salt, cream, yeast, jams, spreads or sauces. What’s the point to that, other than adding cheap calories that easily convert to glucose? Just eat real food. Name a grain that tastes anything other than bland when its eaten all by itself. Beige glop any way you cut it.
BTW, I did give vegetarianism a try 30 years ago and it make me sick and weak. That’s why I host this site.
Could you please let us all avid readers know the vegetarian experiment as a separate post? I’d love to hear it
I agree. One of the things I realized after switching to Primal was that those cookies, cakes, biscuits, whatever might taste good, but I could never take a pinch of flour and eat it. EW! Definitely a disconnect there.
Almond flour on the other hand…mmm.
maybe you became sick and weak from vegetarianism because you are mentally sick and weak? And don’t you think that eating dead animal carcasses is bit cave-man like?
There are plenty of RAW protein sources that are far more digestible than dead meat. i.e.: hemp, chlorella, spirulina, organic cage-free eggs, etc.. etc.. etc..
I have been a veggie for years and am stronger than you will ever dream of being.
btw, what is so indigestible about spouted hulless oats?
The “cave-man like” thing is the whole POINT, Jay. Our genes didn’t evolve just because our minds did. They still expect the same things that Grok ate – meat, animal fat, and the occasional non-starchy vegetable. We did not evolve to eat grains and we are still not evolved to eat grains, regardless of what you think.
While you read “The Vegetarian Myth,” I’ll have a rare steak, thanks.
I wanted to go vegan. At one point I believed the health arguments because I didn’t know any better. It made me fatter and sicker. You can’t live on just green plants because they don’t contain enough calories and you’d have to do nothing but eat all day. You need an energy-dense source of food. If you’re vegan, that has to be grains.
The tendency for type 2 diabetes runs in my family, and I was already showing outward signs of metabolic syndrome. I lasted maybe two or three months on a vegan diet because it was making me fatter and sicker.
By the way, you can’t separate the mental from the physical, because the brain is a bodily organ just like your heart or stomach. If vegetarianism makes people mentally sick and weak that’s hardly anything to recommend it.
I have a way better time digesting minimally-cooked meat than I do seeds or algae or bacteria (spirullina is blue-green bacteria). And I would rather eat things that are easily obtained through low-tech means than be dependent on the factory food system for a bunch of germs in a capsule.
Sprouts are a whole nother matter from unsprouted seed. In that case you’re eating a plant, not a grain anymore.
Got any more insulting questions? Try this: keep them to yourself.
Wow, those posts before me are both pretty ridiculous. First, I’d like to address the gem of a statement that ‘our genes didn’t evolve just because our minds did,’ because it betrays some ignorance of how evolution works, and scientific illiteracy is a pet peeve of mine.
Alright, then: genes changing and mutating is what causes evolution. So, if you are saying that something evolved or that some part of something evolved like you say that our minds did, it is only because we evolved because our genes have changed.
Vegetarianism can only make you weak and sick if you are not eating the right things. If you get enough protein, which is very easy to accomplish by eating beans or a variety of other foods, enough vitamins, which again is simple since most fruits and veggies are loaded with them, and enough minerals.
The biggest mineral being iron, which is not as bioavailable to us from plant sources, meaning that for every gram of iron we eat from plants we will absorb less than we would if we ate the same amount from an animal source. This isn’t a huge problem, however, since there are plenty of vegetables, mostly the dark green leafy kinds, that have iron in them.
So, if you take nothing else from this and just skim through, know that almost everything this blogger writes is probably wrong. I’ve only read this one post, but it is full of misinformation. Just do yourself a favor and do a little research about what he is saying before you take it to heart. Just because he blogs doesn’t mean he is qualified to give the kinds of advice that he does.
i’m sure you get this all the time. but i think that your eating recommendations are silly.
there are so many things wrong with the suggestion that cereal grains should be eliminated from the human diet altogether that its hard to know where to begin.
first of all..human society as it is today could not possibly survive without grains. billions of people depend on them for survival BECAUSE they are high in calories.
calories are what people require to do work. now granted, grains are not exquisitely high in nutrients, but they are not designed to be.
but whatevs…attempt to recreate the imaginary scenario of supposed caveman days.
Clearly your new here, dr. dune. Take a look around the site before you call my recommendations silly.
High in calories doesn’t mean good for you. When you start to look at the science behind the Primal diet (not as a weight-loss diet but as What You Eat), you will see that it’s much more beneficial for the human body than the Standard American Diet.
My cholesterol has gone down, my blood sugar has gone down, my weight has gone down, my arthritis and migraines have disappeared – because I stopped eating grains. You can deny it all you like but there’s a huge wealth of information out there for people who aren’t blinded by the conventional beliefs in this area. I hope you take your blinders off.
How can you “enjoy your life” if your diet is plaguing your overall health and vitality? (By the way, this is coming from a vegetarian. A grainless vegetarian.)
Hey Emily, I have a vegetarian friend who is curious about eating Primally but does NOT want to start eating meat. Any advice for her?
While I’m sure Mark has plenty, I’ll give you my take. The obvious one is to emphasize vegetables and cut out grains. Cutting out grains is definitely the most important and often the most difficult for vegetarians. Refined grains should definitely go first, followed by wheat/bread products, and then whole grains (oats, quinoa, buckwheat, etc.)
Mark’s “big ass salad” works for vegetarians, too. Omit the meat and replace with avocado or raw nuts and use an oil or nut based dressing (I make my own). Basically, center your meals around vegetables (not starchy vegetables), especially nutrient-dense leafy greens, and add things like organic eggs and raw nuts and seeds. Eggs from your local farmer’s market are not only more humane but exceptionally more delicious than organic store-bought eggs. I don’t do much dairy, but I think the best choice is organic plain greek yogurt.
Raw vegetables and raw nuts are great, easy primal/vegetarian snacks. And while Mark has had some qualms with the Raw Vegan diet, a ton of it is primal-friendly and obviously vegetarian. It involves making protein and fat rich foods out of raw nuts, seeds, herbs, and oils. It’s worth looking into.
Hope that was some help!
As a vegetarian, I’m curious about what works for you, Emily, too. I agree with basing one’s diet around vegetables, but do you just accept a lower-protein diet than meat-eating primalists, or do you compensate otherwise?
what is indigestible about spouted hulless oats, and btw, quinoa is not a grain but a seed and is highly digestible if sprouted.
Good call. And cocaine addicts enjoy the drug-induced euphoria. Same with Heroin users. Addicts crave the junk their addicted to, just as I used to crave bread and pizza crust and breakfast cereal (made from whole grains and minimal added sugar no less) when I was addicted to them. Now that I’ve cured my addiction, I don’t find those “foods” appealing any more. AND I feel so much better than when they were a part of my diet that it is unthinkable to me to even imagining a return to those “foods.” I used to get such bad gas from consuming grains that I used to look at my schedule to check when the next appointment for someone to come to my office was just to make sure I didn’t create an embarrassing situation-if you know what I mean. Same with my commutes by car. If I knew in advance that I had to pick up someone that day, I’d hold it in so to speak (which is quite uncomfortable on a 30+ minute commute!). Since going Primal, I’m now liberated from that grain-induced problem!
Ha, now that you mention it, I notice that I never have bad gas anymore, whereas it used to be bad enough that I’d have “exit strategies” for work or school because holding it in was so painful.
Alas, I still crave grains – specifically bread. But wheat makes me feel bloated and strangely sleepy when I gorge, so it’s not TOO hard to avoid anymore. Thank goodness I never liked rice or corn in the first place, though.
Icarus, I used to have that bloated and sleepy thing going on about 2 hrs after I ate anything with wheat. It got much worse before I figured out I have a sensitivity to gluten. Stop eating wheat, rye, barley (sorry, no beer anymore!) and you’ll feel a lot better.
Yeah you’re right! I don’t get bad gas anymore. At ALL. It used to be the worst part of a coast-to-coast flight was holding it in for 6 hours, but since I went primal, I rarely even have gas, and when I do it doesn’t clear a room.
Grains do not taste good. Save for piping hot bread out of the oven, most grains need flavor enhancement from sweeteners like sugar or sucralose or fats like butter or olive oil to be palatable. Does anybody eat just pasta without sauce or unsweetened cereal without milk? Nope. On the other hand, meat, fruit, and some vegetables can be enjoyed plain.
I love the consistency, smell and taste of bread. And I do enjoy what it brings to a sandwich (grilled cheese!). However I also realize what that stuff is doing to my body, and I have striven to eliminate all grains from my diet. However I allow myself the occasional pizza or one piece of toast with my eggs. Usually rarely, but lately more and more. And I have felt the difference, and am even more resolved to kick the grain/carb habit. This site helps so much in this effort. Like an alcoholic, I know I am never immune from falling off the wagon.
I love eating pasta, oalmeal, quinoa, etc, plain. I find this article very interesting but let’s stick to actual facts; taste is an entirely subjective thing.
Kiore, somehow I can’t believe you like that crap plain when there are so many other healthy, tasty choices. Remind me never to eat at your house
Meat tastes good. Give omnivorism a chance!
Hey, that’s great news — I think I’ll start drinking a gallon of scotch a week again, because I like the taste — thanks! :~)
Have you read the recently published book by Lierre Keith, “The Vegetarian Myth?”
She was a vegan for 20 years. Destroyed her health and the book makes a devastating case against vegetarianism, not only on health grounds, but environmental as well.
Yep, she’s both a radical environmentalist and feminist, and she shows vividly how destructive agriculture is to the planet, and how beneficial free-ranging animals are to the environment.
You might want to check it out.
It’s amazing that some of us wacky lefties actually do use our brains, huh?
I’m going to go have a nice medium-rare steak now, thanks.
Did you knowingly follow up “stop worrying about your diet and enjoy life” with, “Give Vegetarianism a chance”. You literally just said, don’t worry about your diet, instead change you diet. I personally just stumbled onto this site so if you have a similar post about why vegetarianism is unhealthy id love to know about it.
i liked this post, i have tried paleo in the past and started losing weight and feeling better immediatley. i stopped however because i still wasn’t convinced i should eat meat( i was a vegetarian from 13-about18) you have to think about grains/beans/dairy..these foods can NOT be eaten in the wild! to eat grains one needs to build a fire step one, and as far as i know we are the only creature who has figured that one out…step two you need a vessel to boil water clay/stone/metal/glass i don’t know but you need to make something that will hold the water and not melt on the fire,step 3 go out and search the land for grains/beans they are hard as rocks and ya they don’t want to be eaten!! i wonder how we figured out how to cook these hard inedible seeds? something most people don’t think about, but think about how much effort goes into making grains and beans edible, while meat veggies fruit and eggs even honey can all be eaten raw wild readily available nutrition! as far as taste goes, plain grains all by themselves are not very tasty they are PLAIN not gross just plain. anyway, i’m glad i came across this article very inspriring
Do you really think there aren’t any animals that eat grains and/or beans? Just because they’re hard to get to doesn’t mean something won’t try; in fact, I’d probably assume the opposite of that. The harder something is to eat, the more animals are trying to eat it. That’s why it evolved to be so difficult to get to.
i never said that actually..i think that animals including us take nutrition wherever we can get it! i was just making an observation that we are the only creatures that cook something into becoming edible which can make you wonder if we should eat it or not. now what you just said about something being harder to eat makes it evolve into becoming harder to eat is silly, seeds are very important to plants because they are the future of their species all seeds are difficult to eat because of this reason…i am still a vegetarian on most days but will occasionally have meat i eat lots of grains and beans and i loooooooove bread. i’m not sure if we should eat grains and beans or not which is why i tried the paleo for about a week. the one thing i noticed was how easily meat is digested while the grains gave me heartburn and seemed to sit in my stomach for hours
Great stuff Mark. Once again had to forward this great post to all my family members!
I have now heard all of the above from people – usually while they stuff their mouths with cake or cookies. I guess the irony of “what about fiber” and lack of vitamins and minerals was lost on them…
“humans arent meant to eat grains” which is why every known civilization bases their diet off of some type of grain or starch.You cant name one that doesnt. Grains arent unhealthy , taste is subjective, and “primal” cultures today eat grains, dairy ect. and none of them do hiit or lift weights.
So if i eat a bowl of oatmeal, im basically going to die a slow horrible death. Got it.
I read the book and it makes a lot of sense but this is getting crazy. I’ve read people debating the carb count in TOMATOES?!?!?!
I didn’t get that message, the one about the slow horrible death. There’s ample proof that grains were not meant to be digested by humans. You can take it or leave it, but there are a lot of people that I know personally that were just as skeptical as you seem until they went without for a month.
You should try it if you haven’t already. I mean what is 30 days in an avg. lifespan of 77 years?
Not sure about the tomato thing. I haven’t known this site to ever be concerned with counting carbs, just eating healthier carbs.
Healthier carbs should be the first concern. Counting is secondary. Depending on your goals, you may need/want to reduce your carb input. I’ve used the Zone diet in the past to help me portion my macronutrient intake. Helpful, but I would suggest to anyone thinking about the Zone to only treat it as a guideline, and not as a full-on diet prescription. I found all the measuring and meal timing to be too burdensome. The general Primal rules are much better.
I’m with you, Tim, on how carb counting can get ridiculous. That is why, unless you are regimenting your diet for the sake of weight loss, I don’t recommend people do it (and even then not all the time).
Glad you liked the book.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dont-let-the-perfect-be-the-enemy-of-the-good/
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/dear-mark-8020-revisited/
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/will-momentary-compromises-derail-your-efforts/
Uh, so what???? lol
Carb counting is a Low CARB thing, not a paleo thing. It is really only important for diabetics or people who are so carb sensitive that eating fruit makes them ravenously hungry for all carbs, grains, fruits, sugars and other starches.
CARbs in a tomato…
That is basically people who have ruined their metabolism with grains and sugars. Tomatoes are fruit, and they have to take those into account if they are trying to keep their carb intake below a safe (for them) level). This concern is not related to paleo eating except that the diets are similar and they have recipes that they can glean to each other.
As a diabetic, it is in my best interest to carb count EVERYTHING, including tomatoes, which are actually a fruit and quite high in sugar. I might have two tablespoons of chopped tomatoes with a salad, but no more than that because my blood sugar goes through the roof if I do.
Oatmeal’s got one of the highest amounts of phytates of any grain so, long story short, yes.
Now, I love oatmeal (at least, with sweetener in it). In fact it was one of my staple foods in my vegan phase. I was already short on essential minerals and I think the oats just made it worse.
Hi Mark -
Just finishing your book today.
In regards to grains, I’d appreciate your opinion on this product, which I have as part of a morning smoothy:
http://www.ultimatelife.com/CatalogMealBenefits.htm
It is primarily greens, not grains — but it does have millet in it.
Thanks,
Paul
What’s your opinion on soaking grains first, Weston A. Price Foundation style?
Or sprouted grains. I’m curious also.
I tried sprouted bread this weekend, and as Mark pointed out above, it’s very tasty…when slathered with a generous helping of golden-yellow pastured butter.
Taste aside, I think if you don’t have a sensitivity to gluten, then soaked/sprouted/fermented grains overcome some of the main health detriments associated with grains and listed above; that is, they preserve nutrients (unlike polished grains) while getting rid of *most* antinutrients (unlike those “healthy” whole grains.)
But they’re still a bit carby – one slice of toast will run you 14g of carbs, and seriously, who eats one friggin’ slice of toast at a time? That’s 28 carbs for breakfast or a sandwhich, which, while probably much better than white bread, is probably still best used in moderation, like good milk. (Pastured butter, on the other hand, imo can and should be used in nearly everything…)
I’m not Mark, but I think WAPF guidelines for grains are extremely important for folks in poverty who can’t afford a lot of meat and/or don’t have the storage space for perishable whole foods. These folks are going to be heavily dependent on grain, and presoaking that grain in an acidic medium will render it a lot safer.
Very timely for me as well. Thank you. I’ve been struggling a bit lately in figuring out what’s good and bad for my individual system, and this is a great reminder of why I should never ever consider grains. Even if they taste good, they’re not worth it!
I posted this on Twitter, but might as well just place it here…
I think it’s a wise idea to avoid the grains, but when there are two people involved and only one of them is decidedly primal, sometimes the primal person has to make concessions.
In my house, dinner is whatever my wife puts on the table when she cooks. I’m extremely blessed that she is fairly on-board with primal foods, but there are times where we will have pasta or home made pizza… maybe a couple times a month. I think it’s a small sacrifice for me to make in order for her to not feel the burden of *my* dietary convictions when she doesn’t 100% believe in it. It’s a worthwhile sacrifice. Considering how much she and I have both changed our eating habits for the better, I can’t be happier. I don’t want to spend too much emotional effort nit-picking because in comparison, it’s only one small piece of a much bigger puzzle.
That’s what the 80/20 rule is for
If eating the occasional pizza is all it takes for you both to eat healthy the rest of the time, you’re doing quite well.
Absolutley! I have a family of 5 including my mother at home. No one else is “on-board” It makes everything a little more complicated. And you have to weigh your relationships into the mix. I think fundmentalism in any form isn’t a good thing. I still kept grains in the morning for a few weeks, but cut them out completly. I feel better then I ever have in my life! I don’t have interest in making exceptions, except for rare occassions. Beleiveing i am a food addict..cutting out grains and refind sugar is essential! So glad to have found PB and crossfit too!
Good point on the importance of making concessions. My fiance is very nonprimal, and sadly nothing I have been saying or doing has made a dent on his outlook (OK, so he switched from regular to diet coke, sigh). I do all of the cooking, and the primal way of cooking is further made difficult by the fact that he does not eat most veggies, nor many varieties of meat (oh and NO seafood of any kind). Anyway, we try the best we can — I’ll usually make him a potato side that I won’t eat, and buy low-carb tortillas for his beloved chicken fajitas. Thank god he loves steak almost as much as I do.
I was really stressed out in the beginning, but now realize it isn’t worth it since that isn’t helping anyone — if/when he is willing to make a change, I will be thrilled. For now, we do what we can to avoid going to bed angry
Thanks for the insight. I wish I could find myself a decidly primal/paleo-crossfittingesque-wonder-girl to avoid having to make those kinda sacrifices. Pretty damn rare amongst student life though… “ZOMG FREE DOMINOS AT FRESHERS!!”
So where do you go to school?
Haha! very smart!
I almost answered that without even realising.
You’re right. I should give it an honest go for 30 days and see how i feel. Right now i only eat oats for the most part anyway-so hopefully it isn’t too hard.
Sorry for the vague post by the way, i was in a hurry.
Tim – I miss oatmeal, too. I was thinking I might try heating up some almond flour in heavy cream and throwing a few berries in. Who says hot cereal has to be oats?
I miss oatmeal the most.
A couple times a winter I soak my cracked groats and cook them in a slow cooker.
Yummy. But I need a carbo-nap soon after.
I read groats as goats… Funny image
slow cooked cracked goats, mmmmmmmm….
Timely. I ordered a low-carb six dollar burger (per your recommendation) at lunch and they mistakenly gave me a regular six dollar burger. I was going to go ahead and eat the bun, then read this. It’s now sitting in the garbage.
hey marc. could you post some of the great science papers you have written on paleo and grains. thanks man.
Great article Mark,
I’m confused though, what makes the fiber from fruits and veggies desirable?
While I agree with most of the post, Mark fails to include the reasoning behind the article about the benefits of fiber: “It’s a bit of a paradox, but what we are saying is an injury at the cell level can promote health of the GI tract as a whole.”
Only including the words “rupturing”, “banging”, and “tearing” is an emotional appeal that exploits the traditionally negative connotations of these words. I thought dispelling, not reinforcing, traditional conventions was the goal of this site.
Nate, I’m just quoting verbatim the article in Science Daily (and linking it directly so anyone can read it). And yes I AM dispelling CW in that paragraph, since I am clearly questioning the rationale of the those terms (dispelling) as they could possibly apply to good gut health.
Well isn’t banging and tearing muscle fibers through hard lifting what gets them (and us) to grow stronger?
Intestinal lining isn’t muscle fiber. You absorb a lot of substances through it and it interfaces with your immune system so this is not something to play around with.
My husband and I quit eating ALL grains this past March to reduce my triglycerides and improve my husband blood sugar level, and I received the unexpected result of having huge amounts of inflammation leaving my body more flexible than it had been since I was a small child! I am still amazed and thankful each and every day! Unless there are unexpected circumstances, I seriously do not see myself EVER eating grains again, especially wheat. Thanks for the site Mark!
That’s exactly my story. Quit grains, most especially wheat, and my inflammation dropped significantly. It dropped to the point where I don’t have to take meds anymore for IBS and I don’t have chronic foot pain. I now use my foot as a guide for inflammation levels. My body is functioning (and looking) SO MUCH BETTER without grains.
Mark et al.
Forgive for writing this, but I must pose a question.
Mark mentions cereal grains, and other things like spelt, millet, etc. However, are things like brown rice “less bad” for you? I would say it cant be any worse for you than a processed grain like flour.
Please divulge.
The term “cereal” means ALL grains, including rice and corn. It is a term used to describe the seed of any member of the grass family. That is, grains.
if we’re avioding cereal grains, i.e. all seeds of the grass family are we avoiding Asparagus also?
You eat asparagus seeds? Weird. I didn’t know they were edible.
Forgot to mention that Corn and Rice are in the grass family.
Thanks for laying this all out. Keep preaching also it needs to be repeated. I’m coming around on this – have cut way back on them and I’m leaner and feel better generally. But it’s tough in this ADM-centric world of ours it’s tough
If I eat grains only one day, the next day is a digestive disaster.
Any young person who doesn’t yet have IBS, or the like, take heed now. Don’t wait till you develop these conditions.
Wish this site had been around 20 years ago!
Rachel Allen- I second this!! I ate grains most of my life with no symptoms (I’m now 38) and just recently developed IBS. After giving up grains (and beans, sugar & almost all dairy) 2 months ago, I have eliminated my symptoms!
I, too, wish this site had been around 20 years ago!
)
Excellent Post and VERY important. I developed Crohn’s at 23 and put on all kinds of drugs. I’ve since quit grains and the drugs and have had my inflammation levels drop significantly and I literally have no markings that would show that I have Crohn’s anymore.
Don’t wait to quit grains, quit them now especially if you are of European descent. GI will doctors will say diet has nothing to do with it. They are either liars or very misinformed. Diet is EVERYTHING.
Excellant article Mark. I have been turnded on to the Paleo way of eating since reading Neanderthin. I have never felt better after giving up my grains. Potatoes were harder to give up since I am Irish. LOL.
I love your website and your articles are very well written. Here is another site that give more of the bad effects of grains, potatoes, milk, etc.
http://www.earth360.com/diet_paleodiet_balzer.html
I never was a big grain-eater or grain-lover, so scaling back consumption to zero was easy.
Then again… by cutting them out, I discovered just how many grains I had actually been consuming via mindless noshing. A few crackers here, a few chips there…
Once I made the decision to pass them by, I found I was regularly stopping myself from grabbing grain junk because “Oh yeah, I won’t eat that anymore”.
Cutting out snacking by 90% and ditching those sugars/starches/grains made a huge difference in my weight and body composition, even with no change in exercise habits. I am a solid 15 lbs less than what SAD had fixed as my low “do-not-cross weight threshhold”, and yet no cravings.
My body/mind isn’t going wacko trying to revert to its “normal” weight. This **is** my normal weight! It’s so easy it’s unreal. Usually by now – heading into winter – I had always been afflicted with chronic cardio burnout and massive carb cravings. You know, to get back to a supposed “set point” [only to have to lose the flab again the following summer].
Now I have plenty of room in my diet for fats I could never enjoy in the past, plus some new ones I find absolutely delightful (coconut, macadamia oil). That means I am eating foods that I am supposed to be eating to keep everything working properly. I feel great and am now looking forward to focusing on a better exercise scheme, instead of wanting/needing to get away from it all. (I am 5′5″ and 115#)
Grains, it wasn’t even nice knowing ya…
Thanks for the solution to the maize, Mark.
OMG! 115# at 5′5 …you’re my new motivator.
Been around 150# (height 5′5) since high school..I’m now 22.
WHAT? Really? Ugh.. Im so ill informed on everything food-wise. I will never go veg or vegan but I can ditch grains no problem.. I need to start from square one. I guess this sites a good start..
I feel so guilty reading this over a bowl of pasta. Tomorrow, a salad is a must.
I’m often amazed at how some people have been primal for so long, yet they fall off the wagon still.
I’m going to write about this on my site.
Honestly I think that some of us are more “addicted” than others. Even though there is a huge burn-out and long-term effects there is pleasure involved initially in eating grains for many people.
It’s like being a drug addict in a society where it’s frowned upon if you’re NOT using it…
Nice Post. I have been off grains for a while and always feel much better without them. No bread, pasta or processed food at all and I still manage to maintain a heavy muscle mass, a solid muscular foundation and very little in the way of cravings at all.
I have read a number of people who enliken no grains to counting carbs. The two are mutually exclusive. I still maintain at least 40% carbs through healthy whole food choices such as yams & potatoes plus a wealth of fruits and veggies. Carbs are not the enemy…processed food IS!
Carbs are the enemy if you’re already halfway to diabetic. It’s great for you if they don’t bother you. Honestly, when I’m low-carbing I find I can get away with some. But too much is too much.
I’ll take Mark’s statements about grain one step farther and say there’s nothing in plant foods that you NEED that you can’t get from animal foods. Plant foods are relatively cheap, and some phytonutrients turn out to be useful to people who are already metabolically damaged, but aside from that… well, there are carnivorous traditional cultures, but no vegan ones. I’m sure there’s a very good reason for that.
WOW! Thanks for laying it all out there Sir Marcus!
After I ditched the grains last June I found out why I was experiencing chronic, low level pain. I even told my sister once that I was really concerned about it.
But the visual proof of not having grains – and lower carbs generally – was my toenail fungus stopped. As in a clear line across my nails that matched in time to my grain cessation. The fungus is still doing a bit of rear guard action, but pretty soon it should be all gone.
On of my fellow nurses was a vegetarian. She told me she finally had to add meat to her diet because her body could
t stand it any more, she was sick and weak all the time.
I have a niece that’s a vegetarian. What’s interesting is that she’s a twin. Her sister is not a vegetarian. You can tell the difference. The veg looks pale and weak and has worse skin. Wish I could talk some sense into her.
It is certainly very easy to be an unhealthy vegetarian or “carbotarian” as I call it. However, we shouldn’t dismiss the possibility of a vegetarian who doesn’t eat grains, eats primarily nutrient-dense vegetables and fat, and plenty of organic eggs. I can say with confidence that I am the healthiest person I know (in person, anyway!) and that’s the diet I follow.
I plan on doing a blog post sometime about the risks of vegetarianism and the way it can still be a healthy diet. While it’s sometimes challenging to maintain great health on a vegetarian diet, there’s a slew of moral and environmental issues that vegetarianism addresses that often gets overlooked on many primal/anti-vegetarian blogs. Let us not forget what (conventional) meat consumption is doing to the planet and to an enormous amount of living creatures.
The moral and environmental issues with the meat industry are huge yes. I believe that’s why we need a huge change in farming procedure. I don’t think people should stop eating meat as a result but rather stop supporting the companies that are causing these issues if they possibly can. The horrors of the meat industry are just one example of the consequences of the money-power-play running behind the scenes of governmental systems. So ultimately we gotta ask, how do we fix the system?
We gotta take the powa back! UUGH!! >:)
The moral and environmental issues, as I’m sure you know, are almost entirely averted by eating pastured meat, eggs, and dairy – that is, by encouraging animal husbandry that truly deserves the name and farming practices that respect the animals that nourish us and give us life (and clothing, and fertilizer, and labor, and and and…) And of course, organic farming is basically impossible without the use of animal waste for fertilizer, and I don’t think egg-laying hens and milk-giving cows produce enough waste to sidestep that fact, which is why vegetarianism is impractical for an environmentally-friendly system of agriculture in the long run. Veganism is especially so.
I guess the main problem lies in the fact that eating animals still involves killing them, which, if it’s as painless and cruelty-free as possible, I don’t personally have a problem with. But, different strokes for different folks, I guess. Also, grass-fed meat/eggs/dairy is damn expensive, but, in my opinion, worth it on a moral level and possibly a nutritional one as well.
Well said. If it’s at all affordable it’s absolutely worth it.
While, in theory, it’s true that, as you say, grass-fed meat is worth it on a moral and nutritional level, not everyone can actually afford to eat that way. The primal lifestyle is, in its ideal form, an expensive one as well. I hope to someday be able to buy food like that, but for now I avoid meat, because I wouldn’t want to eat the meat I can afford.
As opposed to the clear-cutting required in most plant agriculture which, of course, does absolutely nothing to the environment because deforestation isn’t the first step in desertification.
This is the elephant in the living room that no veg*n seems to want to acknowledge. Nobody has to raise an animal in a battery farm. Anybody wanting to raise cabbages has to clear land first.
I absolutely agree with this. Since cutting out all grains and grain derivatives, I have been IBS free. That’s 5 weeks with no IBS. I used to suffer at least once a week, with the most awful, debilitating pain which would leave me curled up on the floor in agony.
Now, meat, fish, veg, limited fruit and limited nuts are what I eat. I am healthy. I live my life deciding what and when to eat rather than food dictating to me.
Great post again Mark!
This post was great to remind me about why I am making these changes, and encouraging me to keep at it. Last night I made us our first real Primal evening meal. But I decided to include things that my husband normally loves – chips, rice and crisps. So I made a roast pork tenderloin, fried cauliflower rice, sweet potato chips and beetroot crisps. My husband was really impressed – even with the meal being grain free.
So flaxseed (linseed), couscous and Quinoa are not grains? i usually use these in recipes instead of rice etc.
I don’t think that grains dissuade consumption, as we can easily digest them, and the whole world eats them every day. They just aren’t best for you.
Alex, couscous is a wheat based food. I can’t remember if it is a form of pasta or a steamed and cracked form but it is wheat based.
Couscous is tiny pasta
Mark, do you think that nuts and seeds are indeed healthy to consume? You make the argument that fibre can be deleterious to health. Yet, nuts are very high in fibre and not easy to digest for many. As a fan of nuts, i am beginning to think they should be avoided. For instance, everytime i look at my fecal matter after having eaten nuts, i noticed numerous bits of nuts, even though i chewed the nuts as best as i could. I think that humans might absorb little nutrients from nuts, and that they may cause more harm than good in that the fibre might damage our GI tract. Your thoughts?
peter, I am a fan of eating nuts. Most people digest nuts (and nut butters) quite easily. Understand, I am not against fiber per se, I am simply saying that we get all the fiber we need from vegetables, fruits and nuts. We just don’t need to get added fiber in any way from grains.
Peter – you might want to look into the Weston Price Foundation’s website (www.westonaprice.org) and read up on how to ‘process’ nuts so that they are more edible. WAPF recommends that nuts & seeds be soaked and dried before consumption. This will neutralize anti-nutrients in the raw nuts. If the nuts & seeds are soaked and dried correctly they become crispy and delicious. Several companies sell nuts like these but they are pricey. Some people I know do all this at home with a dehydrator.
WAPF also recommends that all grains be soaked, fermented or sprouted before being used or consumed. This does neutralize the anti-nutrients that Mark mentioned in his article and it does help in digesting the grains. However, I’ve found from my own experience that this still doesn’t go far enough and that I feel better if I avoid grains.
Alex,
Quinoa and flax are not grasses, they’re still seeds though, they might contain lectins and phytic acid, but couscous is cracked wheat!
Just because the others, who would be starving otherwise are eating them doesn’t mean they are good for you. You can easily digest them if they’re prepared and cooked properly. Not getting sick after the meal is not the sign that the food is beneficial, but that is tolerated by the digestive tract.
“The seed stays intact throughout the digestive process; it is indigestible by design.” – I think you meant to say ‘by chance’ here. Just sayin
Not to open a can of worms.
If you read the article again you’ll understand that it isn’t by chance. It’s a defense mechanism that evolved through the process of natural selection.
But evolutionary mechanisms evolve by chance. There’s no brain in the seed going, “Hey, if I were indigestible, I’d be so much more successful!” and then making it so.
That was fun. Will you give us your best spiel on soy? I’ve heard good and bad things about soy for a long time. What do you have to say?
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/soy-scrutiny/
Hey Mark,
I get the argument against wheat, rye, and barley (especially for Celiac Disease sufferers). What about rice? From what I’ve read and from what my friend who has Celiac Disease, rice is safe and as long as it’s not enriched with a wheat-based additive and you’re sure to wash/polish the rice before cooking (something that all Asian’s do and from what I’ve read, it removes a great deal of the lectins as well), you’re good to go.
Hmm…sounds like Rice might be good for an endurance athlete for post-workout and/or possibly mid-workout replenishment when glucose stores are tapped out (although tubers would work too).
Jon, rice is a great source of cheap carbohydrate that readily converts to glucose. Full stop. Rice is not a good source of any other nutrient. On the spectrum of worst to “least worst” I suppose rice is less offensive than wheat, rye, corn, etc. but only because it is lower in the other antinutrients.
Oh yeah, back when I first gave up grains, I also gave up corn. Throughout my grain relapses, the only time I’ve relapsed on corn was while eating polenta because I didn’t realize that’s what it was I didn’t really have a reason for giving up corn. It just seemed starchy and unnecessary. What’s your opinion on corn?
Benji, corn is as bad or worse than any other grain. Iowa corn growers don’t even eat corn (as quoted in “king Corn” movie)
You know, meat is a touchy subject. Grok was the prey for a long time before he was the predator. When humans finally started eating meat, it was scavenged meat in very small amounts and was usually regurgitated due to food-poisoning. Meat is important. But, sitting down to a huge steak isn’t exactly easy on the digestive system. Small amounts of meat are a much healthier option. Also, large game was a no-no for a lengthy period of time after Grok and his family finally learned to hunt together. Red meat was almost always eaten in small amounts. Seafood wasn’t all difficult to come by, but fish was dangerous to try and catch. Think about it. Bears.
I have no idea where you get your information, but it is certainly in conflict with what most of the records show.
Think about it, Mark. Bears. Maybe he meant that Grok and his kin would have eaten the bears, too, as well as the fish? Yeah, I think that’s what he meant.
On a more serious note: it’s a somewhat controversial issue, but some would attribute the relative absence of large mammals on earth to overhunting by humans in pre-agricultural days. In any case, any anthropologist will tell you that neanderthals, humans, and our immediate ancestors in the homo genus probably subsisted *mainly* on large ruminant mammals, like the aurochs – forerunner of cattle. (Aurochs, aurox, ox, get it?) So I have no idea where Benji gets his info. And, there’s even less reason to believe that they would have eaten “small portions” of Woolly Mammoth steaks (I mean, it’s got ‘mammoth’ in the name, how on earth do you even eat small portions?) because Grok and co. were presumably not tainted by the anti-red meat biases of nutritionists and dietitians…
That idea that humans killed off the megafauna is accepted in many academic circles but is under pretty serious debate in others. Just given the metabolic consequences of eating meat, including the typical hunger levels, I have a hard time believing paleolithic humans gorged on huge amounts of it. You’re just not that hungry on a meat diet, and as low as their fertility rates were, it wasn’t like each tribe had to feed a lot of people.
While we probably killed off a few species of megafauna, I don’t see how we killed them all.
However, climate change was going on when the megafauna were dying off, which is just as likely an explanation for their demise as anything.
Human beings are primates. The primate order is an insectivorous order. Even the so-called “vegetarian” gorillas and orangs pick nits from their fellows and offspring and eat them.
Bugs are meat. I know culinary and religious types don’t want to admit it, but it is. Insects are kingdom Animalia, period, full stop.
We were eating meat long before we started scavenging kills. By the way, we still eat our meat rotten. That’s what “aging” means.
Dana,
Just a quick note on this. I agree. Insects are meat. But according to what I’ve read about Dian Fossey’s observations, the insect eating by primates is a social/cultural thing. It’s not done for pure nutritive purposes.
There is an interesting article in today’s NYtimes.com about the megafauna issue. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/24/science/24fauna.html
Could you maybe also do a post on dairy? I just showed this to all my non-paleo friends who were like wtf….why no grains? The next step I need is to also show them why I limit dairy. Thanks so much for your work!
I would also love to see this. I already ate mostly fruits/veggies/meat before I went full paleo, but I also indulged in greek yogurt, cheese, and the occasional slice of bread with tuna. I now have an awesome resource to point people to when they ask about my lack of grains, but still don’t have a really definitive, consolidated one for dairy.
“but the fundamental problem with grains is that they are a distinctly Neolithic food that the human animal has yet to adapt to consuming.”
>> Correct but there is a problem with your theory. There is a percent of population that is now ADEPT to eating grains. I know of a few people who can have a whole wheat bagel and bounce of walls. As for me, it puts me to sleep which is why I tend to avoid it as much as possible.
It’s a simple test. Eat a meal consisting of grains and notice how you feel. If you feel tired, grains aren’t for you. If you feel fine… you are one lucky ba**ard!
FitJerks, adept at eating grains is an interesting choice of words. Many people are adept at it but have still not adapted to it. Read some of the comments above from people who thought they were “adept” grain eaters for years, but only after they cut grains did they realize the impact grains had had on them. I say we are all unadapted to eating grains – it’s just that some of us manifest problems immediately while others (like myself) take 30 or 40 years to manifest.
And it’s not a simple test. I felt fine after every grain meal I ever ate. It was only after giving up grains that my mild arthritis disappeared, my occasional IBS disappeared and other subtle issues that I had chalked up to “age” or stress disappeared.
Fitjerks, its interesting how your words are literally a copy and paste of what Poliquin says about carbohydrates. Like Mark says, it may take YEARS for symptoms to manifest. I literally had the same issue as Mark with the occasional IBS, just though it was stress. Always seemed to happen when I was travelling too…fun stuff. Glad I figured all this stuff out early (22 years old, Primal for over a year now). Whether you “feel” anything from grains why bother consuming them when you could use those calories some much more efficiently by getting more from Fruits/Veggies?
Just because they don’t get tired doesn’t mean anything. A meal shouldn’t leave you bouncing off the walls anymore than it should leave you wanting a nap.
Caffeine makes you bounce off walls too. Doesn’t mean you should consume it all the time. If a food’s going to make me immediately experience an energy surge I’d ask myself what it’s doing to my hormone and neurotransmitter levels. And I probably wouldn’t like the answer.
Mark
would love to hear you opinions on sprouted grains and rice a la Weston Price, Nourishing Traditions
Hi Mark,
Thanks for this post. We had our first child nine months ago. Since then it’s been pretty much nothing but homemade baby food (fruits and vegetables) and breast milk (Tried rice once. Very constipating). During that time I have also taken to reduce my grain consumption and introduce more fruits and veggies.
For a while I thought my IBS and other digestive issues were due to a fructose sensitivity, but what I’m now finding is that reducing grains has help more than reducing fruits. I’m also learning more about salycilates. Have you done any research on that yet?
Anyway, as our baby grows, we are feeling intense pressure from our doctor to introduce grains into her diet (because doc claims she cannot get enough calories from fruits and veggies) and from the Italian grandparents who can’t wait to introduce her to pasta.
And quite honestly, the reason I haven’t eliminated grains completely from my diet is the cost. I’m finding it hard to entirely replace those calories with fruits and veggies without spending much more money. Same thing with my daughter. As she needs to eat more and more food, it’s very tempting to introduce grains for cost reasons.
Thanks for listening!
If you are feeding your baby breastmilk on demand she/he is getting all the calories she/he needs! Even at one year and beyond babies do not “need” grains or even really that much extra food. It is not uncommon for exclusively breastfed children to get around 80-95% of their calories from breastmilk at one year. Your child will be leaner than other children but that isn’t a bad thing.
Oh yeah, eat more fat.
We are Italian as well so I know what you mean about the grandparents! We love to throw grammy’s bolognese sauce over grilled eggplant and zuchinni! mmm. mmm. mmm! The kids love it b/c they’ve been raised to think eggplant and zuchinni’s are kid food. Our daughter (11) didn’t figure out that most kids wont eat such things until it was too late and she was already in love with them! As far as grammy goes, as long as we’re eating her home made sauce, she’s usually cool with it!
Also, Replace those calories with more fat. Our 11 year old plays very competitive club sports and requires enough calories to fuel her demanding (but rewarding) energy out put; Our 15 month old has just (in the last few months) begun really exploring his taste buds. Both love almond butter on bananas, ham and cheese slices, sliced tomatoes and mozarella, mashed cauliflower w/butter and one of their favorites- wild rice w/plain greek yogurt (true wild rice-which I believe was given the thumbs up by Mark in a previous post- not the wild rice blend). Hope some of those options prove helpful and Good Luck!!
I’m going to add this post to my bookmarks, and pull it back up the next time I begin to forget that grains are NOT good for humans. Thanks, Mark!
Cutting out most grains has definitely improved my health (fat loss, strength gain, and asthma symptoms gone). Recently I’ve added back in small amounts of oatmeal with no negative effects. I’m intrigued by the positive health benefits of beta-glucan in particular. This complex polysaccharide has been associated with improving immunity, reducing insulin resistance, reducing appetite, and lowering LDL levels (see http://bit.ly/4ooc2K and http://bit.ly/1WEuO3). If you don’t like or don’t want to eat oatmeal, you can also get beta-glucan from mushrooms, or take as a supplement.
Interestingly, the gluten in oats doesn’t seem to cause problems for most people who are gluten intolerant (http://bit.ly/2Iotzo).
Am I “grain apologist”? Maybe.
For those of you who miss oatmeal, why not experiment and see how it effects you? I totally agree that humans don’t NEED grains for health.
Mark -
I do P90X, which I know you were involved in creating, and in fact P90X recommends adding whole grains into our diets. For example, oatmeal is a now a breakfast staple for me. Or, take a look at Tony Horton’s list of top 10 snacks (http://www.howtobefit.com/tony-horton-top-snacks.htm). Grains are definitely not a large majority of my current diet, but I do eat them.
So, definitely being a non-expert, how should I be interpreting this (very conflicting) information/advice ?
Thanks.
dfgh1234, do most of the P90X workouts and eat Primally!
Ok. I’m game. I’m on the “FatShredder” nutrition phase (remember that?) and so my protein to carb ratio it pretty high already, and if I replace a few grain based items with healthy fats and veggies I will be moving close to your primal guidelines.
But I have a follow-up question: Regarding the concept of the post-workout Recovery Drink (3:1 or 4:1 carbs:protein ratio), would you still recommend that ? The RD was/is highly recommended within P90X, yet it will be difficult to keep carbs below ~80g if using a RD.
dfgh1234, re: P90 I was paid to develop a drink for a workout program that called for intense work every day. That’s my profession (developing supplements to fit a demographic and a budget). That meant replacing carbs after every workout. The P90 program is NOT the same as the Primal Program. In PB, I don’t recommend training that hard every day, nor do I recommend eating that much carbohydrate every day…but if you choose to do P90X, you probably need to replace those burned carbs. Hence the RD.
In response to your second reply: Thanks very much Mark.
We are Primal P90Xers…the primal diet is so much yummier anyway!!
I should disclaim… I do not P90X every day, so I don’t have a need for RD’s. I have no muscle confusion…Tony Horton would be so disappointed! Either way, I have created my own schedule and incorporate the work outs into it. My fave’s are the core, plyometrics, and the yoga x. Once or twice a week, I challenge my 11 year old to 10 “sprint races”. We mark off point start and finish and she always kicks my butt! BUT, we have a great time!
I forget where I read this (probably a WAPF thing) but children fed oatmeal had significantly more cavities than children who ate non-grain based foods for breakfast, all other things being generally equal. Oats still have anti-nutrients in them and do not have that much in the way of nutrition to give back, even when soaked a la Weston A Price, especially compared to an egg.
It depends on the children. I found a free copy online of Price’s Nutrition and Physical Degeneration book and he found isolated cultures eating oatmeal. But they also had access to high amounts of dietary minerals. If you’re going to eat something chock-full of phytates (and oats are like that), you need to up your fat and mineral intakes to balance it out. Most people don’t do that because the heavy grain eaters are also cutting back their fat intake.
As a skinny SOB, I need to consume starch to remain as ‘thick’ as possible. What do you recommend – potatoes?
Mark,
My dad is always coming up with different reasons of why we should eat grains. He says man has been eating grains since the start of time. Every time I tell him, to a degree, exactly what you said in today’s post. That was perfect timing because there was solid evidence why grains are the worst! He did ask a question ,though, that I couldn’t answer. What did Grok do in the winter when there wasn’t a lot of readily available fruits and veggies?
Grok ate meat during the winter (and, well, all year round). Maybe some roots as well. Grains are only available naturally (i.e. not farmed) one or two months out of the year, and those months are not during the winter.
Although you probably won’t see it stated as such on this site, there is no dietary requirement for any kind of plant matter in the human diet. There are examples of modern day hunter-gatherers who lived entirely on meat. There are also examples of HGs who lived/live mostly on plants, seafood, and/or small animals, and they don’t rely on grains either, instead going for the roots, shoots, fruits and leaves of plants.
While I generally agree with what Icarus wrote, I’d clarify that modern HGs have been know to exist almost exclusively on Animals (not just meat). In fact, it is dangerous to only eat the meat (i.e., animal muscle tissue) and not also the organs if you are not consuming vegetables or coconut oil. We need fat and their nutrients, which are found at much higher ratios in the organs rather than in the muscle.
That’s what I meant… I forgot that most people don’t consider “meat” to include organs or fat. Meat is a weird word, anyway; some don’t consider it to include poultry or fish, even. (I do.) You are right in that fat mostly hangs outside the organs (visceral fat like leaf lard) and on the back (subcutaneous fat like bacon grease) on wild animals, although of course the most prized cuts of meat, like rib or loin meat, will contain a good amount of fat as well. Fat-soluble vitamins are stored when consumed in excess, so much fat at every meal and occasional liver (high in vitamins A and K2, and a bazillion other nutrients) is definitely recommended IF one were to try to live this way, as some no-carbers do. Which I think is kinda unnecessary, but definitely do-able if done properly.
Thanks for the clarifications, though.
I’ve been wondering, grains are indeed bad to eat, but how about oatmeal baths ?
Lazar, I would DEFINITELY not eat an oatmeal bath.
Lol, ok, I was concerned that maybe grains are bad for the skin also. Guess not
So how do you answer to Asians (Japanese in particular)who have white…I mean really white rice, as a regular part of there diet. I mean, they are some of the healthiest people in the world and live the longest.
The famous longevity of Japanese people through their lifestyle choices may be attributed to many factors e.g copious amounts of fish, stress mitigation… Yes they live long and yes they eat lots of white rice but correlation does not imply causation. Imagine how long they might live if they didn’t eat all that rice!
They still get hardening of the arteries and that’s not due to Westernization. A study was done after WWII comparing autopsies of Japanese and American soldiers and found roughly equivalent levels of artery-hardening. There were more Japanese eating traditional diets at that time than there are now.
And believe it or not there’s a diabetes epidemic brewing over there. Funny how it hasn’t picked up much press here.
I’m not sure what their traditional fat intake is like but they eat so much seafood that they probably get a relatively high mineral intake compared to us. They also eat a lot of vegetables, and they love pickled foods. These all make a difference.
Oh, I should add that the traditional way of making rice over there is different from how we do it. They wash their rice and soak it overnight. I don’t know how many antinutrients are left in polished white rice, but soaking it in vinegar, an acidic medium, would do away with whatever was left after the bran was removed.
Dana Carpender, a low-carb writer, says she’s heard that rice causes a lower insulin response than other grains. I don’t know if that’s true but it’s an interesting idea. If I’m in ketosis from low-carbing and eat rice I can usually stay in ketosis as long as I don’t eat huge amounts.
excellent post as always, much fire.
I have two very tangential issues to raise.
Grains are equally bad if not worse for our pets, and I would urge anyone listening to find one of the grain-free, by-product free pet foods out there for your little guys.
On a much more frivolous note, i’ve been good about ditching grains but there is an undeniable, near primal, male urge to turn anything into a sandwich.
I’m down to ezekial sprouted grain english muffins with all excess muffin forked out–just enough crust to hold pastured butter and then it becomes my blt or egg mcmuffin or my po’ boy sausage with mustard.
man’s gotta have a sandwich.
Better yet, ditch the whole kibble idea and feed fresh, whole foods in the form of meat, edible bone and organs to your canine and feline friends! Anyone looking to do so, can contact me privately for help. I’ve fed a “primal diet” to my dog pack and one cat for over 9 years now.
Laura,
I am interested in your pet’s diet (I have 2 cats); please send info. Thank you.
Hi,
Thanks for offering and sharing your guidance on the primal diet for our wonderful pets. I just rescued a 5 year old golden retriever. Right now I am feeding him natural balance brown rice and lamb. I have given him red meat and chicken…but seems to have a very fragile intestinal track and gets diarrheah….(live in an apt…blah blah blah)….anyways… would love for you to share your lovesly wisdom.
Warm hugs,
Keren
Orijen is an excellent high protein grain free pet food which I use for my two cats.
My youngest one, a pure bred Maine Coon is getting really big on it!
Blue whale jerky?
I saw this posted above but didn’t see a response unless I missed it.
“if we’re avioding cereal grains, i.e. all seeds of the grass family are we avoiding Asparagus also?
Kitty wrote on November 6th, 2009Reply”
is Asparagus ok? I just want to check since I love it. I could basically have it at every meal and be happy haha.
Thanks in advance, Rob
I guess people are too lazy to type “asparagus” into Google and select the Wikipedia page reference to it. From that page: “Asparagus officinalis is a flowering plant species in the genus Asparagus from which the vegetable known as asparagus is obtained. It is native to most of Europe, northern Africa and western Asia.[1][2][3] It is now also widely cultivated as a vegetable crop.”
I.E., asparagus is not a grass. Eat up!
PS. Why this question in particular? ‘Cause it looks a little bit like grass?
Hmmm, according to what I’ve read, Asparagus is a grass. It might be outdated info, but that’s what I read. Now WHERE I read it is anybody’s guess. I read all over the net and books by the handsful so… I ask questions. and when I go to tell someone what I read here, I won’t be able to tell them where I got that either. It’s a curse, I can remember WHAT I read, but not WHERE I read it.
“I can remember WHAT I read, but not WHERE I read it.”
Welcome to the information overload revolution.
I even preserve a lot of stuff. You should see the mess that’s my [Mac] desktop, etc.
Asparagus is a shoot – the very young, very early protrusion of a plant stem. Shoots are nearly always mentioned as one of the plant foods that hunter-gatherers, modern and ancient, would have pretty easy access to, so feel free to eat up.
Also, being that it’s a green vegetable, it’s very, very low in carbohydrate, even fiber, because the plant is so young. Much lower than any grain, which grow quicker because, as annual plants, they have very short lifespans. It’s also one of my very favorite veggies, so I may be a teensy bit biased, but nothing I’ve said is untrue, so, again, eat up.
I took my kid to the grocery store the other day. It’s great going through the produce aisle and telling him about all of the vegetables and fruits (even though it’s still a struggle to get him to try them). We’ve nicknamed Broccoli the King of All Vegetables, and Asparagus the Queen of All Vegetables.
I like that! Mind if I copy cat?
This post is a good read and your line is a great way to get kids on the stuff. There might be a few people swiping your line now!
I ditched gluten over 6 years ago and had a fantastic improvement in health. I soon realized that I feel even better when I avoid all grains and sugars. My diet now is mostly paleo-like.
Oatmeal often contains high amounts of gluten from cross contamination. If one has celiac disease or gluten sensitivity it is recommended that only certified gluten free oats be consumed. But it is a grain so I avoid oats too.
Article about The Dark Side of Wheat http://ezinearticles.com/?The-Dark-Side-of-Wheat—New-Perspectives-on-Celiac-Disease-and-Wheat-Intolerance&id=1818855
I have a question about your anti-toxins section. As veggies are also plants, shouldn’t they have massive anti-toxins also?
This has been perplexing me for a while. It’s clear that the seeds would really not want to be eaten, but shouldn’t the arms and legs of plants also have a defensive mechanism?
We’ve clearly seen that in nightshades and what not… so how does that work into the picture?
SJ, we’ve been eating fruits and vegetables for millions of years and have truly adapted to the compounds found in some of them (even though many don’t really resemble the original plant forms because we have selectively grown them for sweetness and taste).
These compounds (phenols like flavonoids and ellagic acid or organosulfides like sulphorophane, indols like allicin, etc) may have been part of those plants defenses, but for us they have antioxidant and other protective benefits because we adapted to them. Grains and legumes have defensive compounds to which we have NOT yet fully adapted.
Folks are mistakenly listing quinoa as a grain. Quinoa is not a grain; it’s a seed that contains all of the essential amino acids, so it’s a fantastic source of protein. If one is concerned about potential phytic acid content of quinoa, simply rinse before cooking. As a competitive bodybuilder and mixed martial artist, I eat 2 cups of quinoa every day. Amaranth and raw buckwheat groats also contain all of the essential amino acids, so i would definitely include those are acceptable foodstuffs, though quinoa is the best.
Ok then answer me this?
How am I suppose to make a sandwich?
I don’t do many grains but dang?!?!
Learn not to have sandwiches.
Use lettuce for a wrap. If you must have something that’s more like bread, do a Google search for “oopsie roll.” A lady named Jamie VanEaton worked out her own version of Atkins’s old homemade low-carb rolls using eggs and cream cheese. OK, not primal maybe, but they work in a pinch.
Dennis, why do you assume you need to have a sandwich as part of a healthy diet? A sandwich was always intended just to be a vehicle to eat the good stuff that was between the bread. Why not just eat that? I haven’t had a sandwich for 10 years and don’t miss the concept one bit.
It just makes it easier to carry?!?!? lol
Mark, my thoughts are with the very rigorous workout outs (P90X) 6 days a week, carbs are essential. I know I have to change my thinking, but quite a shift especially when I have a family that thinks I am nuts…
However, I didn’t realize how grains weren’t not a natural dietary process.
A whole lot of new information to digest.
As an undiagnosed celiac for about 45 years, now diagnosed and gluten-free for 3.5yrs+, grain-free for 1yr+, I must mention the importance of KNOWING if you are celiac before going grain-free. Many posts describe symptoms of celiac (bloating, IBS, gas, arthritis etc); going grain-free is great, but if you cheat once in a while you’re undiagnosed celiac/gluten ingestion continues to harm your body and put you at higher risk for GI cancers and lymphomas.
I wish I’d known 20 years ago (at least) about this stuff, too. *wahhh*
My integrative MD finally went full gluten-free 4-5 mos. ago (not sure about grain-free) and notices great improvement in her joints (she notices when she challenges it by eating pizza – she’d previously attributed it to sodium or cheese…).
Also, to the person who asked about introducing grains to an infant, there is discussion in the celiac community to wait until at least 1 yr (Dr. Fasano’s doing a 20 yr clinical trial – only in yr. 2), or discuss this with a good allergist. You might consider your family history. Google “Dr. Fasano baby grains” and/or visit celiac.com for discussions. Not everyone on celiac.com is a gold-standard biopsy proven celiac, btw.
As a celiac I really appreciate this info getting out there to support my current lifestyle choice. Thanks Mark
.
I forgot: even though I’m mostly Paleo, I still eat yogurt. I still have inflammation (latest hsCRP is 6.something, down from 12.something, not sure why). Not sure if it’s the celiac, hypothyroidism, dairy or what. My legs feel full of lactic acid no matter what I try (exercise exaccerbates it). It takes a week to recover from heavy exercise. Any ideas?
Also, this might be of interest to some with grain symptoms relieved by Paleo:
http://www.recognizingceliacdisease.com/21.html
I was always puffy around the middle and grumbling in the intestines until I gave up grains by reading your website. It was like a total change in my shape… All of the sudden my midsection got flat in a hurry and I didn’t feel like crap all the time.
TrailGrrl
I’ve always had a gut feeling that I should just eat meat and vegetables. I don’t feel full and bloated like I do when I eat grains. Since I quit the grains I have felt SO much better, and my cravings for starchy foods have simply disappeared.
I’m just wondering about the marathon runner or the person who needs extreme energy / carbs. They tell me they can’t cut out the pastas or grains. Is there really a reason to eat grain for more energy is there another means to attain the same result?
<>
Chris: As a Masters All-American marathoner, I can tell you that the Primal approach grains has had a net-zero impact on me, in terms of energy. We cannot overfill our tanks with carbs and expect to gain any benefit from it, right. If all carbs are depleted between 30-120 minutes from the time we start running, does it make sense to carb-load in any event? I don’t carb-load before a race, except to eat Gu Gels immediately before, during, and immediately afte a race. This way, I’m recruiting those carbs for energy when I need them. There is a school of thought that states hat all carbs are gone within 4 hours of ingenstion anyway, so, if we buy into that, why would we carb-load.
All I needed was a viewing of the movie Food Inc and that made me realize how BAD grains are (despite conventional wisdom, I work in health care).
Thanks for the reminder Mark.
PS: I did the whole vegan thing years ago currently paleo and loving it!!
My wife is vegetarian but pretty much eats grains and soy meat replacements. Her cholesterol is through the roof. Ive been trying to get her off of grains for some time, now Ill start trying again.
Mark,
I’m curious if you might do a similar post on legumes. I have seen contradictory evidence that often points to beans being unhealthy for some of the same reasons as grains……..
For those of us who still like grains every so often, may I suggest Xtreme Wellness! High Fiber, Low Carb Tortilla Wraps by Ole Mexican Foods (no, I am not employed by them). Remarkably, they have 5 grams of carbohydrates, 12 grams of fiber and 8 grams of protein for each wrap and are very satisfying. They also contain no sugar, no lard, and no cholesteral. I think they have hit the nail on the head with these.
Too bad they don’t have lard.
Are they flour tortillas or corn tortillas?
I think you might’ve missed the point of this site.
“think about it. bears.”
lmfao.
I agree that we have not evolved to eat grains, but if I’m going to be completely honest with myself, I also admit we have not evolved to eat meat–despite the fact that I continue to eat meat daily.
While I love Mark’s blog and Primal blueprint for helping people with practical dietary re-balancing in a cultural context, it’s hard not to agree with Lauri Forti’s posts on human’s true natural diet from the evolutionary biology perspective:
http://www.ecologos.org/omni.htm
The common thread in paleo/primal and raw diets is the elimination of grains and dairy, which is why I’ve decided to work towards those, instead of elimination of meat.
Not sure what you mean by “it’s hard not to agree with Lauri Forti.” I just went to that site to review her argument. She has her agenda, and I can’t fault her for that, but she has no idea what she’s talking about. None. It’s all typical vegan/vegetarian convoluted drivel. Talons, fangs, claws, etc.
Human beings are primates. The primate order is an insectivore order. Bugs are meat. Look it up. Kingdom Animalia.
We *are* meat-eaters. In fact, we owe our large brains to meat-eating. We’re just not obligate carnivores like cats–we get by with some plant food, like dogs do.
Yet another amazing post Mark!
Wow…you’re asking to do away with centuries of tradition! How would the French (and many other cultures) deal with this and all their traditions of good bread? And…they are overall healthier than we trendy, food-faddish Americans.
The bread and the sweets are why there are any fat French at all–and trust me, there are. But they eat so much more animal fat than we do. If they didn’t smoke, they’d leave us in the dust.
Hi all,
I removed sugar and grains from my diet since January,
stopped fruits since march,
I have been eating non-starchy vegetables,fish,fowl and lamb (not organic or free-range) since June this year.
Started portion control in protein since 15 days to take 59gms protein per day which is my lean muscle mass weight..( as a result I am able to stop eating easily when I am satisfied without uncontrollable feeling of wanting to eat more ,which often lead to binge eating…)
I feel like my insulin level has come down a lot in 15 days ..I was showing symptoms of hyperinsulinemia last year .Not anymore..no more binge eating these days.Also I eat only two or three meals a day.
My fasting blood sugar shows 85mg/dl and postprandial BS is between 97-105 mg/dl after any meal .
Blood pressure 115/75 mmHg ( last year 130/90 )
But today my lipids showed the worst result..
TC- >500.. (checked three times) , last year it was140 mg/dl
TG- 132 mg/dl
HDL- 42 mg/dl
I am an Asian male of 38 years..
Resistance training with weights ,also 30-40 minute walks most days of the week.
Could anyone please explain why my lipids could be at such dangerously abnormal levels?
Does it take so much time for lipids to become normal ?Should I wait for a few more weeks and check again?
Thanks, Krish
( just don’t want to go on medication )
Krish… if you go to the forum on this site and check it out there are some posts on blood pressure. Apparently when your HGL is low it throws off the calculations they use to figure out your total Cholesterol levels. There’s more detailed information in the forums, so really… go there and check it out!
OK, overall, there’s probably no reason to worry about your cholesterol. The overall number could mean anything from day to day because every cell in your body makes cholesterol. Your body needs it, so it keeps it around. Could be that in your particular instance it’s using all that cholesterol as repair material for whatever damage you’d done to yourself in the past.
Meanwhile let me share some recommendations from Dr. Michael Eades’s new book. Check these:
Apo-B: If this goes down but your LDL stays the same or goes up, it means your LDL particle size is larger, which is a good thing.
Lp(a): Below 30mg/dl
HDL vs TG: Divide your TG number by your HDL number. If the result is less than 5, that’s also a good sign.
Or you could ask your doc to get the lab test that counts LDL particles directly, because the usual method is to use an equation that, as the other commenter stated, is skewed by low triglycerides. Direct count of LDL is expensive, though, and your insurance may or may not cover it.
You could also try eating more saturated fat and cholesterol, odd as that sounds. If you’re eating it, your body doesn’t need to make as much of it.
what about alcohol? is it really a bad thing to consume?
Not to be glib or snarky but, it’s a toxin is it not?
A toxin is by definition a “bad” thing to consume. How bad may depend on dose, and body type and other factors, but it’s probably more unhealthy than, say, Milk.
Different toxins do different things. I was reading a paleo blog yesterday where they were talking about that. Seems most mammals enjoy getting intoxicated and pursue it whenever they can. And our bodies are well-equipped to process alcohol, whereas they are not equipped to process phytic acid or enzyme inhibitors, which are the toxins present in grains.
And let’s not forget herbal medicine, which we have used for most of our species history and which depends on self-defense toxins present in many plants.
You can lead people to water, Mark… but they’re still going to choose the soda.
Love ya, man. Don’t let the tofurkeys get you down.
Wow, let me guess… you haven’t read “Good Calories, Bad Calories” by Gary Taubes yet?
Synopsis: A compilation of decades (pushing a century and a half, if memory serves) of research that refute that exact, ridiculous premise (among others).
Caloric deficits do not work. Thermodynamics and metabolism are not so simple-minded. If portion sizes were the key, everyone who ever tried a caloric-deficit eating plan would lose weight.
(Oh, and is coming to my website and leaving trollish comments really necessary? I think not. Let’s just be civil, okay?)
I personally believe in quality not quantity. I’m not about “losing weight” I’m about being strong and healthy. If I’m hungry I’m going to eat as much paleo food as I need WITHOUT fear of “gaining weight” because it just doesn’t happen when you eliminate grains from your diet.
Been there done that, everything but fruitarian and I’ll tell you this is the only way to go.
Grain free and loving it
WE are already stressed out with the work we have. I can’t eat 8 tiny PORTION SIZES as you say throughout the day, I am a normal human being that can have say 4-5 meal max heartily . I can’t carry a journal that counts what i eat, the number of calories etc. and get stressed about it. If you even know how a grok eats, he doesn’t need 5000 calories to stay full, he’ll eat whenever he’s hungry and
drink when thirsty, thats how human beings evolved for millions of years. Guess what Steroids,pills,supplements would just be better than eating at McD to get ripped or lose fat. but thats not the point, its about natural,healthy living.
40 yrs of accumulated BS in your gut that you call “research” is better than how our DNA was designed to be for 40,000 + yrs?
Thanks Michelle .I will try that.
If insulin is present in the bloodstream at sufficient levels, yes, it will promote fat storage. That’s its *job.* It’s a storage hormone. Calories have nothing to do with it. Over and over I talk to fat people who say they eat very little and yet they can’t dump their fat stores. I have experienced this myself. Insulin is the reason. As long as it’s elevated, REGARDLESS OF YOUR CALORIC INTAKE, you will not lose weight.
Try looking at the reverse to understand this: how many fat type 1 diabetics have you ever met, who couldn’t blame it on an incorrect insulin dose?
So my being able to eat almost three thousand calories a day of low-carb food and still lose weight doesn’t mean anything to you? I’m a hundred pounds overweight, by the way. (The only reason I am is I keep jumping off the wagon. I blame no one but me, I’m just “telling it like it is.”)
Prove it. Calling Taubes names does nothing but discredit you. Proof. Real proof held up by the experiences of real people.
I’m 5′6″ and in the 240s weight range and sedentary. According to your low-fat diet quacks I should be eating something like 1000-1500 calories a day. I don’t have to eat that little. I can eat three full meals a day and the weight still starts coming off. And I don’t exercise more either. There are benefits to the right kind of exercise, but weight loss isn’t one of them unless you’re killing your lean mass.
Spurlock consumed too much sugar and vegetable oil. I can lose fat eating at fast food places–I ditch the buns, avoid the fries, and don’t touch the sugary drinks.
A bunless Baconator with Caesar side salad at Wendy’s is one of my staple going-out meals when I’m low-carbing. Yum, yum, yum.
Obviously, you haven’t paid attention to the science behind fat loss. I call troll.
Those 40 years of accumulated research are based on faulty premises which cannot be supported with current data. Try reading recent research and you’ll find a very different picture.
But as you’re a troll, I doubt you’ll do anything of the sort. Keep peddling your grains, honey. I’m not buying.
Jane, I’ve lost 50 pounds in three months doing nothing but eating low-carb. Apparently Lyle doesn’t know his stuff when it comes to people with metabolisms like mine.
Let me give you a free clue: You won’t succeed with your “arguments,” such as they are, on this site. Everyone here is wise to the idiocy of conventional nutritional thinking, and isn’t going to be convinced back. So give it up, honey – you don’t know what you’re talking about.
And to demonstrate that you’re not going to convince me, I’m not going to read or respond to anything else you write, because frankly, I have far more important things to do with my time than waste it on a CW troll. Bye-bye now.
Ok can someone please tell me what “CW” stands for?
It seems like almost every thread I’ve ever read on the internet has ended in some heated argument.
I agree that it is annoying and sometimes infuriating to be preached to about nutrition by a person who has no concept of a variety of metabolic rates and conditions.
However, not everything that isn’t stated in this site qualifies as conventional wisdom. Many of the people who comment on these threads tend to just be repeating what they’ve read here or elsewhere, and that is how conventional wisdom develops and becomes a problem.
for 2 years i have been eating oats and steel cut oats….or have been trying to eat them every couple days. was very bothered by the fact that i coudl produce enough natural gas to fuel my house for the winter after eating them. thought i had issues with not processing them. so glad i came across your informaiton. i am throwing them away. no more gas!
thanks
I love my toast. I love my sandwiches. I love my white rice. I love my cereal, it’s the only way my body can tollerate milk. I also believe in everything in moderation. With that in mind, I see nothing wrong with having a turkey sandwish along with a glass of orange juice or apple juice. (I’m broke, can’t afford all the over the top prices of so many “healthy foods”.)
If the human digestive system hasn’t evolved, then why do we no longer need our appendix?
* sorry I suck at spelling. That’s a legitimate question btw, not sarcasum.
Kasey ~ Perhaps we do need our appendix. It has been proposed that the appendix gives a “safe house” to the good gut bacteria and these can be used to recolonize our intestine after exposure to a pathogen. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17936308
Even though we may be able to live without all our body parts, that doesn’t mean they don’t serve a purpose. We have not discovered everything about how our bodies work.
As far as healthy food costing more, I have found my improved health is worth every cent. I am also saving money by visiting my doctors less often.
If you are having trouble tolerating milk(except with cereal), you may want to listen to what your body is telling you. I don’t eat grains as I am gluten sensitive and feel better off all grains. I don’t drink juices or eat rice as they will cause my blood sugar to spike. Again, we have to listen to our bodies.
Grains are terrible! This is the TRUTH. Its easy to see just look at chinese and japanese cultures, all they eat is rice and use wheat to make other stuff like dumplings, and just look at their life spans and cancer rates and diseases. sickness and disease are running rampid through they’re 5000 year history
Something tells me that you’re not Asian and that you should re-check your facts about the culture and diet. Wheat is a more recent thing due to Western influences, but rice has been a main staple in the diet for thousands of years and the longevity of the elderly in all Asian countries is relatively high (much higher than in the US and Europe). It was only when Western influences happened is when things turned south. I’m not just talking about diet, lifestyle changes happened as well but on a more intense scale (i.e. more desk jockeys working 16 hour days with no vacations and high amounts of stress). But that seems to be only in metro areas within Asia at best. You start expanding further and incorporate the rural areas and you’ll see that the countries as a whole are still living a hell of a lot more cleaner than the US.
Did you ever think about how many people smoke in China?
It’s not often that we will take drastic action with a commenter, since we encourage debate. In fact, there actually aren’t that many naysayers out there. Having said that, you’ll note that we have removed comments from Jane Carraro, MichaelS, Rick Santos and Lisa because a) they are all the same person and b) he/she just couldn’t play nice.
Boo! Hiss!
(just kidding)
But then we might not get to hear the cool response’s like Griff’s…
Aww, WIWR, you flatter me. Trolls bring out the snark in me. I’m not sure sometimes whether that’s a good thing or not.
You do have a point, you don’t need grains but don’t sway the facts to make it seem like they are unhealthy. I have actually never met a single healthy person in my life who did not eat a healthy amount of whole grain foods. Processed grains are crap, agreed and sandwiches are delicious. Odds are, however, your diet will lead to cancer somewhere along your digestive tract soo….. have a nice time with that.
I just want to point out that the comment from “Griff” about “swaying the facts about grains” is NOT me posting. As you can see, my avatar does not appear on the comment, and it’s my belief that the person in question is trolling and using my name on purpose.
Grains have been repeatedly shown to do damage to the gastrointestinal tract and to the connective tissues. Look up “lectins” and “leaky gut syndrome” for a real kick.
As for cancer, it’s not caused by eating meat and fat. It’s been repeatedly shown that glucose – which grains break down into in the body – is what feeds cancer cells. Cancer cells can’t process ketones; their mitochondria simply don’t have the capability to process anything but glucose, where normal cells can process either glucose or ketones (along with short- and medium-chain fatty acids). Stop eating grains and other foods that break down into glucose, and you’ll halt cancer in its tracks because you’ll starve the cancerous cells.
Maybe you didn’t read the fiber article all the way through, but they said it was a GOOD THING. Actually, they said that right after your quote. And your Salad doesn’t have any nutritional info except the macronutrients. And really, overall, your article is simply wrong information. Our bodies are made to digest everything, just occasionally people have dysfunctions. Like people are allergic to something. 1% of the population doesn’t account for everyone quite obviously.
I feel bad for all of the people who read this and think that they should avoid whole grains because they didn’t look into your research.
Just reading all of these comments are just making me angrier. Please read the articles he links, he is only taking what he wants to hear from them. The fiber roughing about our tract is a good thing because it is creating mucus, if you read the full article. That in itself should tell you that you should not trust him and he is going to twist words and facts in order to sell his book.
I’m right there with you man. It’s like “scientists” tell me I need white blood cells. These white blood cells crash into bacteria and literally kill themselves, exploding inside of me to fight bacteria.
Exploding inside me? Yeah right. It doesn’t take a scientist to know that exploding is bad, and exploding inside of me is worse. I plan on going in to the doctor and asking them to take my white blood cells out.
I mean who knows more right? Some guy who spent his whole life studying “science” or people like you or me – real guys on the street who really understand what is going on.
Keep on fighting the brain washing man. Your common sense is a breath of fresh air.
Bread Kills!
1. More than 98 percent of convicted felons are bread users.
2. Fully HALF of all children who grow up in bread-consuming households score below average on standardized tests.
3. In the 18th century, when virtually all bread was baked in the home, the average life expectancy was less than 50 years; infant mortality rates were unacceptably high; many women died in childbirth; and diseases such as typhoid, yellow fever, and influenza ravaged whole nations.
4. Every piece of bread you eat brings you nearer to death.
5. Bread is associated with all the major diseases of the body. For example, nearly all sick people have eaten bread. The effects are obviously cumulative:
* 99.9% of all people who die from cancer have eaten bread.
* 100% of all soldiers have eaten bread.
* 96.9% of all Communist sympathizers have eaten bread.
* 99.7% of the people involved in air and auto accidents ate bread within 6 months preceding the accident.
* 93.1% of juvenile delinquents came from homes where bread is served frequently.
6. Evidence points to the long-term effects of bread eating: Of all people born before 1839 who later dined on bread, there has been a 100% mortality rate.
7. Bread is made from a substance called “dough.” It has been proven that as little as a teaspoon of dough can be used to suffocate a lab rat. The average American eats more bread than that in one day!
8. Primitive tribal societies that have no bread exhibit a low incidence of cancer, Alzheimer’s, Parkinson’s disease, and osteoporosis.
9. Bread has been proven to be addictive. Subjects deprived of bread and being fed only water begged for bread after as little as two days.
10. Bread is often a “gateway” food item, leading the user to “harder” items such as butter, jelly, peanut butter, and even cold cuts.
11. Bread has been proven to absorb water. Since the human body is more than 90 percent water, it follows that eating bread could lead to your body being taken over by this absorptive food product, turning you into a soggy, gooey bread-pudding person.
12. Newborn babies can choke on bread.
13. Bread is baked at temperatures as high as 400 degrees Fahrenheit! That kind of heat can kill an adult in less than one minute.
14. Most bread eaters are utterly unable to distinguish between significant scientific fact and meaningless statistical babbling.
In light of these frightening statistics, we propose the following bread restrictions:
1. No sale of bread to minors.
2. A nationwide “Just Say No To Toast” campaign, complete celebrity TV spots and bumper stickers.
3. A 300 percent federal tax on all bread to pay for all the societal ills we might associate with bread.
4. No animal or human images, nor any primary colors (which may appeal to children) may be used to promote bread usage.
5. The establishment of “Bread-free” zones around schools.
Some caveats:
Indigestible fiber (not necessarily from grains, but from other vegetable matter) feeds your intestinal flora. The latter colonize your gut and work in tandem with your own immune system to keep pathogens from gaining a foothold, via “competitive exclusion.”
The friendly flora also make a certain amount of nutrients and energy from food more available to you, by digesting stuff you yourself can’t. They also seem to have a powerful role to play in warding off cancer and other diseases (see http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2009/12/butyric-acid-ancient-controller-of.html)
Also, Remer and Manz’s studies on “Potential Renal Acid Load” make a quite compelling case for the direct effects of dietary minerals on resulting internal pH balance, which seems to have serious implications for health and fitness. Long story short: some things you eat are acidifying (esp. high protein food), others are alkalizing (green vegetable matter), and you want to maintain a judicious balance between them.
You can get a sense of how to maintain this balance by reviewing a table like http://www.thepaleodiet.com/nutritional_tools/acid.shtml
What for? Enlighten us!
One of the most important things to note about the USDA Food Pyramid is that it’s put out by the US Department of AGRICULTURE. They have a vested interest in putting out the food pyramid as they do.
I don’t know where to start. I just finished reading Marks’s article about unhealthy whole grains. I’m an obsessive-compulsive, binge eating, food addicted soul who has spent her entire life up and down, and all over the scale. Not to mention the food pyramid! My weight is out of control once more, and I’m currently suffering a sciatic injury. When I visited my chiropractor the other day he swore me OFF ALL WHOLE GRAINS. I didn’t want to believe; I want to retaliate(for some reason); I have fear, doubt, and skepticism? I’ve been sitting here on the computer looking up neagative arguments against whole grains in the diet, and I stumbled upon Mark’s article. I have to say, you’re the first to put things so easily understandable, and I wanted to thank you for that. I feel I want to dip my toe into the pool. Where does one start? Tell me what I CAN eat, not what NOT to eat, and why. Also how is best to prepare it. Recipes? These are practical ideas to help the masses buy into the truth; arming them with the tools necessary to take this plunge. Thank you.
a lot of controversy on this topic
Ok Mr. Sisson can you write out a list of foods that i can/should be eating? i would never have thought grains were unheathly
please include all foods from snacks and breakfast lunch and diner. Just a simple list i can reference to obviously if this is not too much trouble for you. If you can would you be able to include also foods i should not/never eat. thank you so much. Or if Mark can’t do this can someone else here help me out and show me a list? thanks again
-Mike
For the record I, personally, eat grains, whole grains, but I am taking seriously the possibilities suggested here, and doing my research. I have noticed that as I cut back on grains over the last 2 years and increased my consumption of fruit and non starch veggies I have felt far more energetic, and capable, than previously. And that as I do so, when I do eat grains, more sporadically than before, they have a more profound effect on my sense of vitality and liveliness.
Ain’t scientific observation or fact, just an anecdote with all of the biases inherent.
Rachel,
I’m not trying to be cute, though no one could be blamed for suspecting that you were, and I’m not trying to be unpleasant or a snit. But some things need to be said.
I think you could have raised a valid point about the value of whole grains, but instead you chose a different path. I think that you could have contributed better to your fellow commentators from your ideas on these points had you not been so flippant, dismissive, and snarky.
What you did above would be called arguing from authority, except you weren’t really arguing. And that’s a problem. You were making proclamations and issuing directives which isn’t really arguing, though it’s sort of like a kind of rhetoric.
Sort of.
When arguing from another’s authority, it is best not to be snarky about it. This poorly reflects on the one being snarky.
So, even if you were actually arguing from authority, and you weren’t even arguing, this is considered a logical fallacy in argumentation. They teach us these things in 11th grade English, or at least in better schools. Baring this, you would typically learn what fallacies are in arguing and logic in college.
When to make recourse to the amorphous authority of “a real nutrition course: nothing is said about the quality or credentials of those teaching such a “real nutrition course”- heck, what in your eyes would constitute a “real nutrition course” anyway?
Have you honestly read much of the new research on these matters? Beyond research (which always suffers from the biases of the researchers) have you taken the time to actually speak to people who have cut grains out of their diet, with success, and seem healthier for it?
Anecdotal evidence is weak, of course, but this does not mean that there may not be something interesting beneath the surface of accounts of many people who are cutting grains out of their diet, that may point to things that have eluded the authorities that you esteem simply because their biases and assumptions have simply blinded them, possibly, from making certain considerations.
Sadly due to the nature of the Internet it is possible for an otherwise very intelligent person to come off sounding like a fool. It’s a limited communications media.
That said, before throwing out proclamations and directives from authority it would be good to reflect on what you are writing.
“You need to take..” and “whole grains are needed..” are a directive, and a proclamation, respectively. A softened directive – you didn’t say “get thyself to a real nutrition course now”, “you need to take..” a nutrition course is a bit softer. But it’s still a directive, or awfully close to one.
In other words you are directing one to do X, and then stating – presumably – on the basis of the results of that directive that Y is true, without an actual argument as to why this is the case.
Good rhetoric, a quick shot shaming tactic, but not a sound or persuasive argument.
Maybe you should at least look into both sides of the issue in greater depth before just blurting out an opinion as fact.
The comment about seeds do not want to be digested, really opened a new door. My family can’t believe that cutting out grains is a good thing. We are Bible believers, and in the Bible it talks about eating grains, or so they have told me. The meat of the fields, is the quote I’ve heard so far. I do not want to contradict the Bible, but until I research that further, I’m staying away from them. Even still, they harvested them differently, then. I’ve lost the most weight in the shortest amount of time, gained energy, and feel better, by cutting out grains, and refined sugar. We’ve only been on this diet for 3 weeks, but I feel such a difference. I will be doing more research on the issues. Thanks for all the info. It’s great to get so much information in one place. It’s always great when you get to take charge of your health.
That book also tells you not to wear clothes made of more than one type of fiber, that slavery is perfectly fine, and all kinds of other absurd things. I don’t think it is the best place to go for nutritional, or any other type of, advice.
Yeah, buying into the primal blueprint requires at least an acceptance that evolution is real (It most certainly is.)
I wouldn’t trust the Old Testament as a source for scientific knowledge about what is best for your health.
I’m sorry but I do have to disagree about reading the statement about the Bible and scientific facts. Things have changed allot in the last few thousand years. And I DO NOT believe in evolution! No one will ever convince me, and I’m not going to start that war. It’s a personal decision, and the answer does not start with evolution or Creation, but an entirely different subject that I will not go into since it’s neither the time or place.
There are many things in there we shouldn’t do, but just like any other history book, it tells you the whole story and not just the fluffy parts. Just like Alexander the Great, and Cesar, and all the other kings, did terrible things, we still put them in the record books. That doesn’t mean, just because they’re story is told we should follow them. But however if The God who you Pray, and Worship tells you to eat something, you better eat it. Like I said I haven’t researched this yet. I will be doing a study on it. I will not come to a conclusion without also keeping in mind that we do not have the same rituals they practiced 6-10,000 years ago. You do not have to be an evolutionist to learn about good nutrition, or about your health(since we should all want to keep learning). We just keep in mind what we’ve been told what is good, and what isn’t. Then research if we are staying true to the process or to for go them “product” all together. I do thank Mark for all the info. It has helped me, to know how to choose better foods. Back then they couldn’t tell you about the different oils, and cheeses, since they didn’t have them yet. That’s all.
It’s true, you don’t need to accept the fact of evolution to practice good nutrition, although it will certainly help you to be a more scientifically literate person and it will definitely help you to understand why certain food choices may be better than others. And, for the record, the Bible is a terrible history book; unless you think that our planet is the flat center of the universe, and that the sky is the only thing keeping the water in space from crashing down on our heads. I’m very interested in what you believe ‘the start of everything’ to be, if it involves neither evolution (Which, strictly speaking, does not really talk about the start of anything but picks up after everything has already begun. But that is just me being nitpicky.) nor creation.
Regardless of your evolutionary misconceptions, however, the fact remains that grains are not unhealthy; like everything else they can be detrimental to your health if eaten in excess, but they are a useful source of fiber as well as carbs, which are pretty essential for most people. And unless someone on here has a link to a serious, well-designed scientific paper I will very likely remain unconvinced.
Ray, read this http://www.direct-ms.org/pdf/EvolutionPaleolithic/Cereal%20Sword.pdf and then tell me grains are healthy
I haven’t read that whole paper yet, but from the first 20 pages it seems that they are making a case more for moderation of the consumption of grains than for the complete exclusion of them from the diet, which I agree with. They don’t have enough nutritional value to justify basing an entire meal plan around them, but that doesn’t mean that they are going to kill you if you eat them frequently and in moderation.
I have read many of Mark’s articles with great interest and I finally feel I’ve read enough of them to form an opinion on his beliefs.
I think the way that Mark advocates eating is healthy, but it is also extreme and unrealistic for most people. To those who like it: Great! I’m glad it makes you feel good. But I doubt that it’s right for everyone. The “primal” diet requires unnecessary dietary restrictions and guilt over wanting to eat normal foods when a person could achieve the same results by counting calories, cutting out processed food, adding fruits and vegetables, and eating a moderate, healthy amount of whole grains. The paleo thing is just another bandwagon for people to obsess over and most of them to try and fail at because they lack the willpower to go the rest of their life without a sandwich or a slice of pizza. And I hardly believe that’s a fault of theirs. We live in a very different world than the cavemen did, and just as we are genetically predisposed to whole, natural foods, we are also predisposed to enjoying diverse types of food that we find palatable. I would rather see people make realistic changes to their diet that end up making a huge positive effect on their health than try something as extreme as cutting out ALL grains, failing, and going back to eating like crap all the time.
The only food that I believe is a complete unmitigated evil is refined sugar (and by extension “white” carbs), and this is due to personal experience. I cut sugar out of my diet and switched to eating only vegetables, fruits, nuts, lean meats, and whole grains. I lost tons of weight and never felt better. I no longer craved sugar or most refined carbs at all. But I also ate lots of grains.
I think the jury is still out on all extreme ways of eating. I think there are multiple dietary paths one can walk to achieve healthy eating, be it the Mediterranean diet of olive oil, protein, grains, and veggies, the Japanese diet of rice, fish, and veggies, or something of your own invention, as long as it includes whole, unprocessed foods with high nutritional value with the right ratios of protein, fat, and carbohydrate.
My personal opinions about healthy eating lean towards paleo, but I’ve simply seen nothing to suggest that grains are going to kill you. If it’s any consolation, I think that paleo is infinitely better than vegetarianism, which is a joke and is going to do nothing but make you sick and anorexic or sick and fat, depending on the quality of your diet. Or Atkins, the “all bacon, all the time” diet.
In closing: Don’t drink the Kool Aid, folks – on any nutritional belief. If Mark’s way of eating appeals to you and makes you feel good, do it. But if you want to focus on getting healthier and fitter without having to give up every single thing you enjoy eating, do your own research on nutrition and see what conclusions YOU come to, and change your diet accordingly.
Way to prove my point, Griff.
I do examine my own beliefs (they certainly aren’t all correct – I’m only human and I don’t know everything) and I wasn’t condemning yours. I simply don’t share them. Had you had paid attention to the substance of my post, you would have noticed that I agreed with your beliefs on many points. I’m sure there are many people at MDA who can live this lifestyle and do it happily. I’m glad for them and you – as I stated. But I do not believe it is the ONLY way to get fit and healthy. That is where my beliefs and the beliefs of this website part ways. Other than that, I think you guys largely do good work. Anyone on a paleo diet is eating way better than the average American, whether they are 100% religious about omitting grains or not. Nor will I stoop to being unpleasant and condescending to sway someone to my opinion. I could care less if people share my beliefs – differences of opinion make the world go round. You do it your way, I’ll do it mine, and hopefully everyone makes decisions that leave them both happy and healthy.
Just wanted to mention that you can still eat pizza, bread, pancakes, and muffins. And you still get lots of calories, protein, carbs, and healthy fats. Just replace your flour with Almond flour, or another type of flour if you’re allergic to almonds. There’s a couple of recipes on here, like Primal pancakes, and Son of Groks’ pizza you could try. We’ve eliminated all flour, and trying to eliminate as much grains as we can. We eat them only when money is tight, or at a friends house. We eat lots of veggies, with a moderate side of meat most meals. Since finding out I’m expecting with our third child, I’ve been craving flour like foods, so I eat (almond) Maple Cinnamon muffins (that are amazing) and pancakes, and I’ve been craving meat, and eating more fruit and veggies. I’ve been eating tons of food, but still loosing a small amount of weight, (from the previous child weight gain). I started eating better just before I got pregnant and ever since I’ve been loosing about 1-2 lbs a week, I’m not dieting, just eating healthy. My body is getting rid of the excess body fat on it’s own. We can still eat at people’s houses, and I’m not going to completely stay away from grains, just if they are whole and only once in awhile. I will eat wild rice once in awhile, but not make my diet around them. I’ve found from Mark’s site he’s all about moderation, and do what you can. He just doesn’t like grains at all. If the way our soil and processing the wheat has no to little nutritional value, why eat them? You wouldn’t choose to eat another food, just cuz everyone else does, or it seems normal. Everyone eats at McDonald’s, should we eat there, because it’s normal? No, although you can eat there, and find some marginally nutritious food (like the salad), doesn’t mean you should be eating it. Just like we don’t eat iceberg lettuce, because of it’s low nutritional value, we don’t eat grains as a form of nutrition. I’m happy to hear you’ve lost weight by eating healthy and even with grains. Everyone has a different need, if it works for you and you have no problem with grains, more to you. Just wanted to let you know there are alternative recipes that you can make, just take out the refined flour (and other alterations. Even cutting out sugar will help you loose weight. Hope you stay healthy in your endeavor, how ever you choose to eat. We all wish everyone the best of health!
The ideas you have implemented with your family sound great. I would be interested in trying almond flour. I already use ground flaxseeds and flaxseed oil.
Thanks for telling me about it. I didn’t intend to sound rude in my earlier posts but I realize I probably did. You are absolutely right in that if anyone gets healthy, they eliminate a lot of the things Mark doesn’t like anyway, because there are many foods made from grain which are unequivocally terrible for you. I know that simply cutting out sugar helped me immensely. I just truly believe in moderation and doing what works for you. And you are right, eating grains because “everyone else does it” is not a good reason at all. I am just not convinced they are completely terrible or that anyone can yet prove that. But if you stop eating grains (or limit them) and feel better and lose weight, who cares what scientists (or anyone else) say? Obviously it works well for you and you are the best judge of your own health. That’s why I encouraged everyone to do their own research and figure out what works for them.
mmm….oatmeal. I’m sure humans aren’t actually meant to eat grains, but nowadays it seems like we’re not meant to eat anything depending on who you ask. who cares, I want to live my life! no one has ever died from eating grains, you know.
Hello, I found this article very interesting.
I do have a couple questions/comments though…
I do want to lose weight, but I find it hard to stick to diets(which is almost laughable in my case).
This “no grain” thing is intruiging..but I wonder what food is really left to consume(healthy-wise) for me.
I know this sounds silly so far, but let me explain that I am a vegetarian (have been for many many years). So it’s already like I am on a strict diet..and to tighten it more?
Most my diet consists of grains. If I take those out will I just be left with fruits and vegetables?
I do already know the answer to this (mostly), but I was wondering if anyone maybe had any ideas or suggestions.
Maybe I’m thinking too broad?
No grains means no spagetti/pasta, no bread, no pizza, no bakery sweets, no (tacos?) and such. (?)
Oh yes, and fyi I’m a vegetarian who hates salad. Why? Because it’s not filling to me, and seems only good with dressing…which are mostly bad for you anyway. So salads seem healthy…but aren’t very much in reality (so it seems to me).
@Kenzie: The answer to this is: stop being a vegetarian.
Please, please get and read “The Vegetarian Myth” by Lierre Keith, if you do nothing else today. You need animal fats and animal protein in order to really be healthy. Those are what our bodies evolved to eat. I know this goes against everything you’ve ever been told by doctors and nutritionists, but they are working on bad information from bad science that was done irresponsibly with an agenda.
Then, once you’ve read her book, get Mark’s book and read it, too. Please, for your own health’s sake. You’ll find this the easiest “diet” to stick to ever, because it’s not a diet. It’s avoiding processed crap and things we were never meant to eat – like grains. You can make tacos in a lettuce wrap and pizza on a cauliflower crust. Bread and pasta is out, but trust me, you’ll get used to not having bread or pasta anymore. They really are overrated, and terrible for you.
For filling food, you need fats and proteins first, and carbs last. Carbs are never filling. So have a salad with steak in it, or high-fat fish like tuna, or dark-meat chicken. As for salad dressings – the ones that are bad for you are the ones that have vegetable oils and sugar in them, like most “italian” dressings and pretty much all reduced-fat or fat-free dressings. If you make a good oil-and-vinegar dressing from olive oil, or if you make your own blue cheese dressing, they’re insanely good – and good for you.
Finally, stick around here and join the forums, and you’ll be able to ask and get answers to pretty much any question you have about the Primal way of eating and living. I’ve dropped nearly 80 pounds in six months and my blood sugars are completely under control. My doctor says my tests are non-diabetic now. My arthritis and migraines are gone (it turns out I’m allergic to both wheat and gluten) and I no longer have to use a wheelchair. Any of that sound familiar? If you’ve been a grain-dependent vegetarian for any length of time, I’d be surprised if you don’t have a bunch of physical health problems that your doctors can’t figure out.
Best of luck to you!
It really perplexes me how anyone can take themselves seriously or expect others to take them seriously when they cry conspiracy like this. Tell me, exactly, what agenda doctors and nutritionists could possibly have to publish bad science saying that vegetarianism is good for you? Were they forced to do it by the extremely influential and powerful asparagus lobby?
It is very possible, and not even difficult, to get enough protein and fats in your diet as a vegetarian; there is nothing special about meats that make them the exclusive source of the types of fats and proteins that we need.
Your last paragraph is absolutely ridiculous. Whether or not all of that is true and exactly how you present it, it is irresponsible to say that removing grains from your diet caused it. It is much more likely that you made more than just simple dietary changes to get those kinds of results. Correlation is not causation, and since there isn’t a pandemic of people being killed/severely sickened by grains I think it is a safe bet that they aren’t any more dangerous than any other commonly consumed food.
I’m off all medications for my diabetes. I’ve made no other real changes than what I was eating. I stopped eating grains and sugars, and everything changed. If telling people about that is irresponsible, then I’ll happily embrace that label. I love being irresponsible when it means that people will stop eating the poison they’ve been told is food.
You see, I’ve seen proof that this is real and it works, and I’m far from the only one here who has. Your doubt is what’s ridiculous. The science is firmly on the side of people who eliminate Neolithic foods (and processed crap and vegetable oils) from their diets, and we’re going to outlive you doubters -and by a lot. So feel free to keep eating your poisonous grains. I’m opting out and I’m going to do everything I can to convince other people who need to stop eating them to opt out too, because I KNOW it works. I have my body and my lab tests as evidence.
You think there’s no pandemic of people being killed or severely sickened by grains? What do you call diabetes, heart disease, high blood pressure, stroke, and cancer – all of which have been conclusively linked to grains and sugars? Gee, I’d call that a pandemic.
It’s a shame that you can’t handle the truth, but then again, and sadly, most people can’t. Sorry to hear that you’re one of them. I won’t be responding to you further as I have better things to do with my time than argue with a brick wall. Have a good day, now.
Is that why when people have heart disease their doctors recommend that they stay away from grains and vegetables, but eat plenty of red meats?
Those are some pretty bold claims you’re making; show me a paper that links cancer to grains and sugars and I will concede that you are more informed than me. But I am very doubtful that you will do that, since there is no evidence to support that claim.
I am no more of a brick wall than you are, seeing as I am open to evidence contrary to my opinions. You see I am not going to belligerently stick to my guns if you prove me wrong; on the off-chance that I am incorrect about this I would love to be shown. So please, find some data to support your side and prove me wrong.
Oh well thank you, this is all very interesting.
I really couldn’t start eating meat though. I’m not a vegetarian because of “animal rights” or nutrition reasons.
I just can’t stomach the thought of eating flesh and tissue n blood vessels etc.
To me..(and I know this is absurd) it’s like: I wouldn’t eat a person, so I wouldn’t eat an animal.
And either way, I’ve distanced myself from meat for so many years that even just the smell of it makes me horribly nauseous.
Not to say that people who do eat meat are awful or cannibals or anything. It’s just not what I do.
And I don’t know if I’m horribly “grain-dependent” per say. I really just don’t eat a lot.
My doctors do reccommend vitamins…that I don’t really take. Because lack of some vitamin makes it hard for me to do some excercises..
Like, even in-shape. I sometimes find it extremely difficult to catch my breath to the degree of almost fainting.
But that only bothers me one in awhile.
Thinking about it…I drink liquids a lot. Lot’s of water…because I think milk tastes gross. (lol)
But thank you for reading my comments and replying! I appreciate it, very much. You have a nice day/night
@Ray:
First of all, most doctors don’t keep up on the science that’s been coming out for the last ten years or so which roundly debunks the fat-is-bad, carbs-are-good hypotheses. They’re operating on medical knowledge that’s twenty years or more out of date. They got one day of nutrition classes in medical school, based on faulty research conducted by Ancel Keys in the first half of the last century, which he conducted with an anti-fat agenda. They know next to nothing about the science behind nutrition, and they’re in the pockets of the pharmaceutical companies. I don’t trust doctors any farther than I can throw them, and you shouldn’t either.
Here’s some books I recommend to people who doubt that this is real and that it’s supported by scientific findings:
The Great Cholesterol Con, by Anthony Colpo
Eat Fat, Lose Fat, by Mary Enig, Ph.D. and Susan Fallon
Mark’s book, of course
Protein Power LifePlan, by Drs. Michael and Mary Dan Eades, as well as their website at http://www.proteinpower.com
This video by Gary Taubes, who holds advanced degrees from Harvard and whose life work is debunking bad science, explaining the science behind this way of eating: http://www.dhslides.org/mgr/mgr060509f/f.htm – this is a talk he gave at, I believe, Berkeley, explaining some of his findings in Good Calories, Bad Calories, which I also recommend.
Here’s some links for you.
Sugary soda linked to pancreatic cancer risk: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSN07113352
Cancer cell metabolism tied to sugar: http://blog.mesothelioma-aid.org/2010/02/12/cancer-cell-metabolism-could-be-key-to-new-cancer-therapies/
On cholesterol and what a crock of crap the cholesterol-leads-to-heart-disease hypothesis really is:
http://www.healthbeatblog.org/2008/02/the-cholesterol.html
http://www.businessweek.com/print/magazine/content/08_04/b4068052092994.htm
No link between saturated fat and heart disease:
http://www.edmontonjournal.com/health/Sugar+hazardous+health/2544651/story.html
http://www.healthcentral.com/diabetes/news-458538-98.html
You may also want to check out the movie “FatHead” by Tom Naughton, which explains most of this in a very entertaining and scientifically sound manner.
I wish you a good day looking at these links and reading these books. I hope this will show you that what you’ve been taught by conventional wisdom is nonsense and that we really do know what we’re talking about here at MDA.
Oh, and to Ray: all grains break down into glucose. So any grain you eat is really no different than eating straight white sugar. To your body, they’re exactly the same substance.
That’s pretty ridiculous. Your body doesn’t instantly break grains down into glucose; it takes time. Eventually they are broken down into simple sugars, but saying that eating grains is equivalent to eating straight sugar is exaggerating things quite a bit.
It really depends on the type of carb that you’re eating, too; complex carbs are broken down much more slowly than are simple carbs and will thus be converted into sugar and released into the blood stream more gradually.
@Ray: I’ve attempted to post links for you but I think they may have been eaten by MDA’s spam filter. I’ve notified Mark; hopefully they’ll show up at some point soon.
But you see, Ray, the point is that they ALL break down into glucose – whether slowly or quickly doesn’t make a bit of difference. Glucose causes an insulin response. An insulin-resistant body (as most American bodies are) can’t handle that much insulin or that much glucose, and it causes real health problems.
My blood sugar meter tells the truth: a meal of high-fat steak and a big-ass salad leaves my blood sugar in the 90s both before and after the meal (and I’ve tested at one, two, three and four hours after, and it’s never varied). A meal of regular semolina pasta or white rice with sauce? Sugar spike into the 180s two hours later, which is when blood sugar is supposed to return to “normal” after a meal. A meal of whole-wheat pasta or brown rice with sauce? Sugar spike into the 160s two hours later, and into the 240s three hours later (because of that vaunted digests-slower “advantage” you’re touting). That’s not an advantage – that’s cellular poison.
I would suggest that you work on learning about the science, instead of holding on to conventional wisdom that is laughable in its unscientific-ness.
Whether you think they are or not, most people aren’t diabetic and don’t need to worry about the occasional spike in blood-sugar. I’m not saying that everyone should have diets high in carbs, because you clearly shouldn’t if you are diabetic.
For most people that slower digestion is an advantage, since it will allow their bodies more time to naturally lower their blood sugar. A diabetic who is insulin resistant (I can’t recall if that is type I or II) should definitely watch their carb intake, and for them a diet without grains will almost certainly be beneficial.
However, since this is not the case for the majority of the nation’s population it is not very scientific to say that it is. I am very science literate, which is beneficial since I am currently studying math and biology, and I would never extrapolate results to the general population from a study on diabetics (or any other minority group), let alone a study performed on one person.
I would have to disagree with you. I think the high rates of insulin-dependent diseases, including diabetes but also including obesity, high blood pressure, and heart disease, are indicators that a rise in insulin is a problem for *everyone* in the nation (indeed, the Western world!), whether or not they’re diagnosed with insulin problems (for backup on these claims, please read the Eades’ book Protein Power and/or Protein Power LifePlan, although the earlier book goes into more detail about the connection between elevated insulin levels and diabetes/obesity/heart disease/high blood pressure etc., and they’ve had over 30 years of clinical practice to back up their claims).
Let’s face it, the pancreas eventually gives out if you flood the body with carbs repeatedly, as most Westerners do. We’re not designed to run exclusively or even primarily on glucose. If we were, the pancreas would be about six times as big as it is. Obviously we run on things other than glucose – primarily ketones. If you think about it, the science is sound.
I would really suggest that you read Mark’s book before continuing with this conversation. If you don’t believe it after you’ve read the science behind what he’s making public here, then more power to you – but a lot of your questions and skepticism could be answered by reading his book and a few others. (Like I said earlier, I posted a link comment and I think MDA’s spam filter probably ate it; I have contacted Mark and we’ll just have to wait for it to come back up.)
“Obviously we run on things other than glucose – primarily ketones.”
That right there is completely false. Our primary energy source is glucose; we are capable of using ketosis to convert fatty acids into something more usable, but it is definitely not the first thing our bodies go for.
This isn’t to say we can survive on only glucose, because we obviously need other nutrients, but those are used for mostly things besides providing us with energy. Our bodies even store excess energy in the form of glycogen, which is a carbohydrate. I’m not sure why our bodies would do this if carbs are so terrible for us…
Also, I cannot find anything that Eades has done or anything that proves he actually knows what he is talking about. From what I have found, however, it seems like a lot of what he wants to do is sell people books/supplements.
*sigh*
Fine, Ray. You believe what you like. I’m studying for a major examination, I’ve wasted far too much time on this conversation today, and I don’t have any more time available to continue trying to convince someone who doesn’t want to listen to the evidence available. Meantime, as I’ve already said before, I’ll be getting healthier and fitter, and living longer, and you can take your doubt wherever it will lead you – but it won’t be to health.
Take care now.
I don’t understand what you think you gave me that I should consider evidence… You do know that anyone can write a book and put whatever they want in it, right? Just because a publisher thought it would sell doesn’t mean that it has to have actual, factual information in it.
I want real proof. Without actual research which is done well and preferably peer-reviewed and replicated by other researchers there is no reason to believe the claims that you are making, if only because it makes absolutely no biological sense whatsoever.
I’d also like to point out that you haven’t argued against any of my claims. You’ve simply kept assuring me that it has, and will continue to, work for you and so it must be true. That is pretty overwhelming in its unscientific-ness.
Ray, the proof you want is in the books I’ve referenced. Colpo’s and Taubes’ books are chock-full of peer-reviewed research that you can look at. As I said, I do not have time to discuss this with you further. Have a nice day now.
Here’s the only good reason to eat grains: it beats starving to death when there are no other options. I’m glad my ancestors survived the Dark Ages long enough to reproduce.
But these days, we don’t have to eat poison to survive. And make no mistake, grains are poison.
I say this as somebody who ate and adored grains in generous quantities throughout life. How I laughed, reading the grain-lover comments to this article! “But grains are tasty!” “But what would I eat if not grains?” “I’m a real guy from the street who really understands what’s going on (so don’t confuse me with the science)!” LOL. In my carb days I would probably have written something similar. So would many of my morbidly obese relatives.
But one day in my carefree youth, my intestines basically fell apart. I spent seven years baffling the doctors and wondering what progressive, degenerative illness I had contracted before I found the Primal Blueprint and tried ditching grains. Within a week all my symptoms were gone.
But lifelong eating habits leave their mark. This weekend I decided that as a treat for being so orthodox, I’d try one of my old favorite foods, some lightly breaded chicken nuggets (Chick-Fil-A, if you must know). There were only 30g of carbs in the whole thing, and I was really feeling fit, so I thought, surely I can stomach this. Could a tiny amount of grain — just enough to provide a crispy texture — really be so bad? It didn’t feel bad after eating. In fact I rather enjoyed the fleeting carb rush.
But this morning, the bill came due. My weight spiked overnight by three pounds, from the look of it all on my belly, and rather than springing out of bed as usual, I felt sluggish and slept in. Thank goodness today’s a fast day and my metabolism is back under control.
Hear Mark now and listen to him later: Grains are poison!
I told myself I was done with this, but I cannot let this kind of ignorance float around unabated. It doesn’t make any sense at all, whether grains are good for you or bad for you or neutral, for 30g of carbs to make your weight spike by 3 lbs.
It takes ~3500 Calories for you to gain 1 pound. There are about 4 Calories per gram of carbohydrate. There were ~4*30=120 Calories in the chicken you ate, which is way less than would be noticeable on its own. Also, fat doesn’t only go to one spot. It is spread throughout the body, albeit unevenly so it might appear as though it all went to your belly.
I call shenanigans on your story, sir.
Ah, I see you’re really making use of the resources I pointed at, Ray. Except not, because if you had, you’d know that it’s actually a quite common reaction for someone avoiding grains to have when they come into contact with grains. If you’d read “Life Without Bread,” for example, you’d know that.
Therefore, I call shenanigans on your request for proof, as it’s obvious you don’t really want any. If you did, you would have gone and read some of the resources I pointed you at before responding here again. Now the truth comes out: you’re just a troll, and that means I don’t have to pay any further attention to anything you say.
Have a good (if misguided) life, Ray.
The thing is, you and I are apparently using different definitions for the words ‘proof’ and ’science.’ You see, I don’t consider a book to be science. Unless it is actually peer-reviewed (which is uncommon for books) then I am not going to bother with it. I don’t want the author’s opinion, I just want the facts.
And it doesn’t make any sense at all that a small amount of carbs would make you gain weight. Unless it was all water weight, in which case it doesn’t really count, then I am very skeptical that it happened that way.
You linked to some articles, but not really scientific ones. A short, one page writeup does not count as a scientific argument. You should probably lay off the ad hominems, too; whether or not my life is misguided does not change the facts.
what about raw sprouted grains??? Its bad too?
I’m glad I stumbled across this website because for the most part, grains were not a big part of my diet, but then I “felt” like I should be eating some kind of grain, and I started incorporating oatmeal, but then I started bloating and having IBS (which I have never had when I wasn’t eating ANY grains, come to think of it) and I just noticed that when I do eat grains, the IBS flares up as opposed to when I’m just eating fresh vegetables and fruits. I currently eat a diet consisting mainly of fruits and vegetables and some meat occasionally. The only problem I have with meat is that the meat that is readily available today is pumped full of hormones and god knows what else. I was wondering if anyone had any suggestions on a “healthier” type of meat, such as organic (but that can be pricey) or maybe fish is a better option? Thanks
Also, is flaxseed okay?
Thanks for all the information
now I finally understand why I started bloating recently. I’ve been doing a lot of research and cut out all processed foods. Since then, I’ve lost about 7lbs. Naturally, I cut out “whole grains” because they were processed as well.. But I felt guilty because I’ve been raised my whole life on grains and was taught that they were “essential”.. You know what they say, “bad habits die hard.” So I added in some oatmeal back into my foods and for some incredulous (to me) reason, I started bloating and getting digestive issues like IBS. I was completely baffled and I did some research on the internet. Some websites said that it was only my digestive system “getting used to” the amount of fiber I was adding into my diet.. But c’mon, I think my body would be able to tell me that something isn’t right and that I should listen to my body.. which led me to your website.. Needless to say, it all made sense and I cut out my oatmeal. No more bloating. IBS is going away.
Thank you, thank you.
And I just ordered a copy of your book after scouring your website.
Thank you for having the guts to tell the truth amidst all the lies that those agribus and meat lobbyists feed us
the author of this article is truly retarded
Ummm, Jane…I’ll bypass the “beyond ignorant” diss. Did you not read any of the 211 comments prior? Did you not read the post itself? Your suggesting wheat germ is “one of the most healthful things you can eat” tells me you either work for a wheat germ company or drank heavily their KoolAid somewhere along the line. This is perhaps the most anti-grain site you will ever find. I doubt I’ll change your mind. Rest assured you won’t change mine.
Meantime, I’ve cut out all grains and all beans, and all processed carbohydrates, and my fasting blood sugar has dropped from 198 to 98, and my HbA1c has dropped from an 8.1 to a 5.4, while my triglycerides have gone from over 200 down to 84, and my arthritis, migraines and IBS have completely disappeared. Not to mention that I’ve dropped 55 pounds since August 13th. Or that my doctor is in awe and scratching his head because he can’t figure out how I managed to do all this in just three months.
But you keep telling yourself that Mark doesn’t know what he’s talking about and that this is dangerous for my health, you doubters. Just keep telling yourself that while I keep getting healthier and thinner, and you keep getting sicker and fatter. I’m sure your belief system will stand you in good stead when we’re both in our 80s and I’m still strong and athletic and hiking mountains while you’re in wheelchairs and walkers in nursing homes.
Do have a nice day now.
You need to take a real nutrition course, whole grains are needed in the diet.
You need to look at the science. Whole grains are toxic to human beings.
You should try to chill out. I’ve read all your comments in this thread and you are extremely aggressive about your beliefs. I’m glad you’re doing well and feeling so great implementing Mark’s ideas, but you’d do well to respect the viewpoints of others. I think the reason you are so zealous about this is that you are losing weight and feeling better more than any science. I’ve read the papers Mark has posted and I’ve drawn a different conclusion. I’ve “looked at the science”, and I do in every area of my life. I’m an liberal atheist who likes to learn about everything and do my own research on nutrition and other sciences in my free time, so I’m no stranger to people telling me that my opinions on everything are wrong and horrible. If you simply argued convincingly and allowed people to draw their own conclusions a lot of them might end up agreeing with you. By violently insisting they are wrong, wrong, wrong and preaching to them about how grains will kill them and everyone they love, they’re just going to close the thread and go make a pizza.
Jessica, I’d say you’re the one who needs to look at your beliefs. They’re beliefs and unsupported by facts. Your arguments are in no way convincing. They’re just more of the same spouts of conventional wisdom (i.e. nonsense that people believe when they don’t know what they’re talking about) that all of us have been subjected to over the years.
If you had really looked at the science, you’d be convinced. Your weak arguments about “Well you’d have to give up normal food” and “nobody can really do this in the long-term” are just that, weak. Look at the forums here on MDA and you’ll find many people who do both and don’t look back, either.
You’re simply trying to deny reality, and frankly, it’s pathetic. But believe what you like – and enjoy your pizza (and your eventual heart disease, diabetes, and high blood pressure), dearie. Meantime, I’ll be getting healthier, stronger, and fitter.
I won’t say it’s been nice conversing with you, but it’s definitely been an experience.
I think this comment really sums up this article well.
“I doubt I’ll change your mind. Rest assured you won’t change mine.”
No matter the evidence against me, I won’