Meet Mark

Let me introduce myself. My name is Mark Sisson. I’m 63 years young. I live and work in Malibu, California. In a past life I was a professional marathoner and triathlete. Now my life goal is to help 100 million people get healthy. I started this blog in 2006 to empower people to take full responsibility for their own health and enjoyment of life by investigating, discussing, and critically rethinking everything we’ve assumed to be true about health and wellness...

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July 15, 2012

Weekend Link Love – Edition 198

By Mark Sisson
265 Comments

Because ninjas never sat down to type WordPress blogs.

Speaking of ninjas, let Al Kavadlo show you how to do a kip up.

Should we kill animals that kill humans?

A recent study suggests that “dense acellular carbohydrates” (in other words, grains) were found to promote inflammatory intestinal microbiota, as opposed to carbohydrates from “cellular tubers, leaves, and fruits.” Sound familiar to anyone else?

The Human Food Project quizzed a group of 37 microbiologists about their thoughts on diet and gut flora, including what a diet that promotes a healthy microbiome would look like. The results are pleasantly unsurprising.

New research shows that traditionally-shod runners who go barefoot for the first time immediately improve their running economy and adopt a shorter stride length.

All the more reason to support pastured (or at least organic) poultry: antibiotic use in chickens has been linked to bladder infections in humans.

Did you know that the Paleo diet is uncivilized, unhealthy, and untrue? That we’re just all a bunch of savage bloodthirsty heathens? Yeah, apparently it’s true. Seriously, though: a $50 gift certificate to PrimalBlueprint.com to the person who comes up with the best comeback or rebuttal in today’s comment section. The Worker Bees and I will judge. Contest ends at midnight PDT, July 17 – two days from now.

Co-evolution, schmo-evolution; pit bulls are natural born killers. Right?

Recipe Corner

Time Capsule

One year ago (July 15 – July 21)

Comment of the Week

Oh boy, you’re putting your foot in it again, Mark! ;o) *says the grandma who is younger than you and who is also interested in the science of it*

– Yup, I shoulda known, Janet and Estelle. My apologies to all the grandmas out there.

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264 Comments on "Weekend Link Love – Edition 198"

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Honeybuns
Honeybuns
4 years 4 months ago

I just read a bit from Forks and Knives and I stopped reading at the “artery clogging” bit about this WOE. My husband,who had a heart atack from high cholesterol and plaque, just shocked his cardiologist with completely normal arteries. No plaque AT ALL!!
So, that argument does not hold water.

ravi
4 years 4 months ago

i too could not get past the “the hunter-gatherer diet is REPULSIVE”

… but’skuse me, my grilled kidneys with tripe and garlic sauce are being dished up… (hey honey! don’t forget the liver paste and oxblood gravy!!)

yum!

ravi
4 years 4 months ago

and BTW – if you file-up and temper the down-side of your fork, you can cut through some knarly tendons and gristle and pretty much forgo the knife–

Christina208
Christina208
4 years 4 months ago

Haha. Love it. I love how, like the ‘repulsive’ comment, the entire article is a series of quotes taken horrendously out of context. It is honestly a joke. I was so mad I don’t have a facebook any more, because I would to comment and rip that thing apart piece by piece. I am sitting here fuming with my copy of The Paleo Diet sitting next to me.

Christina208
Christina208
4 years 4 months ago
I tried to reply to this article: http://www.vegsource.com/news/2012/06/the-paleo-diet-is-uncivilized-and-unhealthy-and-untrue.html This is what I wrote, but it got promptly deleted and I am blocked from further replies. Sigh. That’s what I get for trying to help some fellow former vegans out I suppose. If anything I was probably too conciliatory in an attempt not to alienate other vegans. That said, my last paragraph was not too nice I guess. peaceonplate, I eat a plant heavy paleo diet and ama a former vegan. Unfortunately my celiac disease has caused so mach intestinal damage that I could no longer tolerate any grains and developed… Read more »
John
John
3 years 10 months ago
What a great response. Thank you. I was a vegetarian for years, then “McDougall” starch based vegan last year. I lost weight when I just ate oatmeal for breakfast and salads for lunch and dinner. When I added starches at every meal as prescribed by the McD plan, my blood sugars begin to rise. My a1c jumped from low 7s to mid 9s in five months. Not a healthy diet for diabetes, or at least for me. Now I’m doing a mostly plant based low carb diet with small amounts of free range eggs, turkey and fish. I just started… Read more »
Richard
4 years 4 months ago

No plaque AT ALL!! – I need to clean my teeth my often 😉

Andy
Andy
4 years 4 months ago

Carry on reading for even more misinformation. It is a hoot!

Apparently it “takes 4,000 to 18,000 gallons of water to produce the beef used to make one juicy hamburger.”

Yes, that one hamburger took up to 18000 gallons of water to be produced! How much would a whole cow take?

Christina208
Christina208
4 years 4 months ago

UM, you guys- apparently “The Starch Solution” is an actual book?! I have been sitting here laughing aloud because it looks like a joke. The Starch Solution. Are you kidding.

“The Starch Solution is an easy and powerful way to achieve the very best of health.” – Dr. Neal Barnard

“You’ll be doing the happy dance when you read this book! Hallelujah, and bring on the pasta!” – Kathy Freston

Well, I have gotten my laugh in for the week. De-evolution at its best. Take some krill oil, peeps.

ravi
4 years 4 months ago

hey – there is a whole weight-loss diet called “Losing Weight with Bread”

yes – really , no sh*t

Christina208
Christina208
4 years 4 months ago

Yeah. And according to this jerk paleo is trying to give people good news that leads to unhealthiness by allowing the keep their bad habits? Right. I’m going to go eat some wonder bread with mashed potatos now. It’s OK though. I put transfat laden margerine in them. No animals had to endure the trauma of being milked to make ghee. So much healthier than my wild caught salmon.

TJ Crane
TJ Crane
4 years 4 months ago

Primal Living…bringing you civilization for 2 million years … and counting…

Alice
Alice
4 years 4 months ago

The “dense acellular carbohydrates” link makes fats sound bad: “[…]with fat able to effect a “double hit” by increasing systemic absorption of lipopolysaccharide.” I like the idea of looking at food from the POV of “Is it made of cells.” Are there fats made of cells?

Alice
Alice
4 years 4 months ago

(Obviously animals have fat cells…I was thinking more about coconut and olive oils).

Graham
4 years 4 months ago

I think the point is that high fat in the presence of high dense acellular carb intake is really bad.

I believe this is why you can have a scientific study concluding that fat is bad, when in reality, it’s the other stuff that is causing the problems.

Steven
4 years 4 months ago

Dietary fat has been found to increase LPS transport, but this doesn’t make dietary fat ‘bad’ anymore than making TLR4 ‘bad’.

http://high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com.au/2009/02/fats-absorbing-endotoxin.html

The real problem with LPS is probably intestinal permeability, FODMAPs and a weak immune system.

http://thepaleopremise.blogspot.com.au/2012/02/obesity-symptom-of-underlying-pathology.html#Mechanisms_of_Leptin_Resistance

Graham
4 years 4 months ago

So no intestinal permeability = no postprandial increase in blood LPS ? Interesting!

Steven
4 years 4 months ago

Probably not. Cream by itself raises LPS by ~40%. But from Peter’s post what would seems to happen is LPS increases, the immune system’s activity increases, this lowers the gut bacteria until the immune system and gut bacteria strike an equilibrium.

The problem may arise if this negative feedback system no longer works in the contexts above where the immune system is overwhelmed.

Thanks for the question. I may add this to the post

Graham
4 years 4 months ago

Steven,

I tried to comment on your article, but couldn’t. Your discussion is obesity pathology is fantastic and I love an article that requires a table of contents and citations into the 90’s!

Steven
4 years 4 months ago

Thanks Graham

Sandy
Sandy
4 years 4 months ago
Best response would be to send John McDougall, M.D. a dinner invitation, seeing how he thinks we should be practicing cannibalism in order to be authentic. About killing man eaters, yes, we should. And the edible ones, like the alligator, should go on the menu. And people who feed wild animals should be beaten about the head and neck. I grew up in Florida and it was pretty common knowledge that alligators tended to be fairly timid unless cornered or defending their nest. They become a problem when they lose their fear of humans, often due to ignorant people feeding… Read more »
Kristina
Kristina
4 years 4 months ago

I live in Florida and I work on a beef ranch. I can honestly say that I drive by hundreds of the healthiest cows I’ve ever seen on my way in, and I’ve seen more than one alligator, too!

Michael
Michael
4 years 4 months ago

I don’t see why we have the right to kill any animal that happens to kill us. I don’t see why we think we have the right and domaniance over every animal. If an animal killed an entire village and threatened more people, yes, it should be put down. But overall, what gives us the right to control how Mother Nature works?

Sandy
Sandy
4 years 4 months ago

Problem is, people have already destroyed how mother nature works in these animals. These animals that have to be killed have stopped being afraid of humans and started associating us with food. They didn’t just happen to kill a human out of the blue. And humans have always tried to change how mother nature works, sometimes even succeeding, such as selective breeding, which you can thank for dogs, cows, domestic horses and assorted other animals we live with. And yes, this often involved killing.

Amanda
Amanda
4 years 4 months ago
We have a similar issue here in Australia at the moment. There has been an increase in shark attacks in Western Australia, so the kneejerk reaction is to allow culling of sharks (even though White Pointers are a protected species). In reality, it is probably more likely a side effect of overfishing to feed the ever-increasing human population…the sharks are simply looking for something to eat. If we enter their territory, I believe we have to expect that there is a certain level of risk involved. When they start coming onto land looking for food in my territory, they should… Read more »
Mia
Mia
4 years 4 months ago

As a Western Australian scuba diver I agree completely with Amanda. If I choose to be in the shark’s territory I accept the risk. Part of being a sentient and intelligent human being is accepting that there is a food chain and we won’t always be at the top.

Great whites are, and should remain, a protected species.

tcseacliff
tcseacliff
4 years 4 months ago

hey,
where in fla is the ranch? I live in palm beach county. good beef there? always lookin for supplie!

Kristina
Kristina
4 years 4 months ago

They don’t sell direct, unfortunately. They wholesale it. Dinner on the hoof!

Chuck
4 years 4 months ago

I was wondering the same thing! I’m in Tampa

Debi
Debi
4 years 4 months ago

You can check out the Eat Well site to see if there is a ranch close to you. http://www.eatwild.com/products/florida.html

Ashley G.
Ashley G.
4 years 4 months ago

Nah, this guy’s brains would taste like crap!

Max Ungar
4 years 4 months ago

Holy Crap Mark! That website is currently being torn apart. Really amazing how strong the paleo community is. Awesome job everyone!

Graham
4 years 4 months ago

My big contribution was to make sure everyone realizes that if you have an M.D. behind you’re name that you’re infallible, and that a “lay person” couldn’t possibly be intelligent enough to learn science and apply it, since learning is confined to the halls of medical school and teaching hospitals.

Something new I learned from all the discussion… You must have earned “respect” in order to be correct – that seems to be these people’s most important criteria when judging scientific evidence.

Kristina
Kristina
4 years 4 months ago

That’s what it ends up being all about.

Mostly I’m pursuing a medical education (osteopathic) because no one will listen to someone with a minor in biochemistry, but they will listen to a DO (provided they know what a DO is…)

ravi
4 years 4 months ago

…. my question is – how do you put up with all that DO-DO you have to listen to in med school….? 😉

Max Ungar
4 years 4 months ago

Also looks like a bulk of that article came from another John McDougall article, from his website: http://www.vegsource.com/news/2012/06/the-paleo-diet-is-uncivilized-and-unhealthy-and-untrue.html?fb_comment_id=fbc_10150993837358726_22956186_10151002475853726

Also worth commenting on

whistler
whistler
4 years 4 months ago

Medical doctors are practitioners, not experts. One of the public’s problems is its regard for doctors as experts, particularly when said doctors don’t actuallybdo research or even read literature.

Kristina
Kristina
4 years 4 months ago
I’m working on a chemistry minor at the moment, and I’m trying to find out if there is a possibility for a DO/PhD program at the schools I’m most interested in. Here’s a link for you for the American Physician Scientist Association: http://www.physicianscientists.org/ And I’d deal with it first in the same way I dealt with the DO-DO in undergrad: question all the things. Second, I feel that having physicians who are also scientists is important, but you can’t change it by pointing fingers and talking about how it needs to change. I have the opportunity to be the change,… Read more »
Graham
4 years 4 months ago

Good for you, Kristina!

Christina208
Christina208
4 years 4 months ago

Um thank you. I love how anyone who disagrees with this lifestyle decides to suddenly take the position (or maybe they had it all along) that listening to your body is a terrible idea.

Christina208
Christina208
4 years 4 months ago
I’m glad that site is being torn apart after vegsource took down my totally civil comments that literally tore that article apart section by section. I at least take satisfaction in knowing they had to go to the trouble of reading at least part of it to delete it. Sadly though, the misinformation is still up there. Some people really don’t care about the truth and just want to pat themselves on the back for how ‘kind’ they are, even though another article on that site actually makes fun of the way paleo people look. (“Paleo Authors are Fat” or… Read more »
Judy
Judy
4 years 4 months ago

“If You Repeat a Lie Often Enough, It becomes the Truth”
We were eating egg substitutes, margarine, vegetable oil, skim milk, whole grain everything, lean meat without bones and washing it all down with 8 glasses of water each day and at least an hour of cardio.
If PRIMAL is a lie, I am happy to live the rest for my days in blissful ignorance munching on my chicken bones and playing in the sun. GROK RULES!

Emily Mekeel
Emily Mekeel
4 years 4 months ago

Agreed!

Annette
Annette
4 years 4 months ago

+1

mars
mars
4 years 4 months ago

+1

Allison
Allison
4 years 4 months ago

+1!!!

doghug
doghug
4 years 4 months ago

+1!!!!!

Toothfairy
Toothfairy
4 years 4 months ago
It’s pretty clear the Dr. McDougall is writing staunchly from the bastion of conventional wisdom. While I assume his medical training was from a time well before the Primal Blueprint was on the scene, his unwavering bias and barking out of well-established “facts” shows to me at least he is simply reacting, instead of learning. Modern health professionals must keep up with the latest stuff – it’s called “Continuing Education” for a reason. It is imperative that our health providers keep up with the times and evolve to meet the new standard of health. My advice go McDougall would be… Read more »
Kristina
Kristina
4 years 4 months ago

Even the current nutritional education is provided by the same entities who provide CW: The ADA, the AHA, the USDA. Unless a doctor has a background in biochemistry, it’s just too easy to stop at the words “artery-clogging saturated fats” and accept it without trying to learn the physiological and chemical mechanism for that claim.

Dan
4 years 4 months ago

I totally agree.

I can say that there is a glimmer of hope in the future. My friends and acquaintances who are currently studying are actually learning the right way, and I often discuss with them how refreshing it is to see the “conventional wisdom” slowly washing away.

yoolieboolie
yoolieboolie
4 years 4 months ago
Dr. McDougall’s piece is nothing other than a fine example of the fact that even scientists are capable of religious zealotry. Cherry picking scientific evidence, using a poor understanding of the diet he’s attacking, and using opinion as a persuasive element, Dr. McDougall makes it clear that in his mind, we cannot “all get along”. Thanks but no thanks, Doc. I’ll continue to be a free thinking human striving to live the best life for me, and I encourage others to do likewise. I may be biased with a general distrust of doctors (because of the institutionalized and unfortunate brainwashing… Read more »
dragonmamma
dragonmamma
4 years 4 months ago

That Ninja Standing Desk is a really clever design. I’m tempted to get one even though I don’t have a laptop or a door to hang one on! Clever ad campaign, too.

After watching Al’s Kip Up tutorial, my husband wants me to make that my new goal, just because it looks so cool. (By the way, I’ve also heard it called the Chinese Get Up.)

Kari
Kari
4 years 4 months ago

My father had a Pit Bull babysitter growing up in the 40’s. I loved to hear stories of Tippy. My dad was a small kid, and small kids get picked on. Not my dad. His faithful friend by his side kept the bullies at bay. She was with the family 16 years, and was a kind, patient dog, unless one was going to cause harm to her family. Then she would only have to curl her lip back and give a low growl and people respected that. A great article! Thank you for posting it.

Robb
Robb
4 years 4 months ago

In the good Doctor’s defense, when I tried to do a low fat, vegetarian diet for a month I was in a pretty foul mood too.

yoolieboolie
yoolieboolie
4 years 4 months ago

lol! so true

Kristina
Kristina
4 years 4 months ago

Enough said, there. For every hundred calories I counted, one more person out there should be glad I didn’t lose my mind and become the starving, mindless cannibal this man thinks I am now.

Jess
Jess
4 years 4 months ago

Ha! That’s awesome…

ravi
4 years 4 months ago

i wish there was a way to measure the dysfunctional, aberrant logic and violent, abusive tendencies caused by CW –

(as if we need a study to prove that one…)

Emily Mekeel
Emily Mekeel
4 years 4 months ago
Here is what saddens/angers me: Paleo followers and vegetarian followers probably have the same mindset, that is, to prevent/reverse disease and eat the best diet possible to obtain optimal health. While I am Primal, I don’t shy away from articles promoting the vegetarian lifestyle because I want to obtain ALL the facts. Unfortunately, the article for Forks Over Knives was heavily biased, sensationalist, and overwhelmingly uncited. Let’s just go from the top shall we? 1) Ketosis is a state of illness which promotes weight loss because people become to sick to eat: False. Operating of course on the premise that… Read more »
yoolieboolie
yoolieboolie
4 years 4 months ago

also, loved the pit bull piece. 🙂 awww, puppies!

Paul
Paul
4 years 4 months ago
The majority of the greatest crossfit athletes in the world live by a strict paleo diet. Dr. McDougall believes that ketosis is an “illness” brought forth by low-carb/high-fat diet such as eating Paleo, thus achieving “illness” seems like the greatest benefit to reaching my personal health goals. “If you repeat a lie often enough, it becomes truth” – Which is evident by our country’s adherence to the FDA’s ever changing food pyramid and the American obesity epidemic “The Hunter-Gatherer Diet is Repulsive” – To a bunch of overweight Americans suffering from high blood pressure, CVD, and diabetes. You gotta try… Read more »
Graham
4 years 4 months ago

Part of the issue is people thinking that Paleo or Primal is a set of hard and fast rules and we all sacrifice babies to the paleo Gods…

I have never come across a more informed group of people than those who eat primal.

Robb
Robb
4 years 4 months ago
I agree with you, I’ve seen people lose weight and improve their health via diet changes in different ways. However, all of them had the common thread of drastic reduction or elimination of sugars and starches. The mistake I see a lot of times coming out of the Vegetarian/Vegan camp is this across the board condemnation of the main aspects of the S.A.D. without breaking it down into its parts and evaluating each. Plus because a lot of people adopt a vegetarian or vegan lifestyle for moral or ethical reasons that injects an emotional component into it that you just… Read more »
Kristina
Kristina
4 years 4 months ago

I have to disagree, because I’ve seen both. I don’t ever go to paleohacks, for example, because the moment a person suggests anything that isn’t 100% pure paleo by-the-book, the personal, emotive attacks on that person start… exactly the same way the Everything-in-Moderation crowd attacts vegans and paleo eaters alike.

It bothers me that food becomes so divisive. It’s supposed to bring us together, not tear us apart. Instead of finding common ground in pursuing real, healthy food, it’s an all-out turf war for cyberspace.

Graham
4 years 4 months ago

I haven’t spent much time there, but let’s try to fix it! The last thing we need is paleo/primal being another religion!

Zach
4 years 4 months ago

“Grandparents, women, and children did the gathering, while men hunted. Glory always goes to the hunters.”

Clearly John McDougall never met Julie Foucher.

HighlySkeptical
HighlySkeptical
4 years 4 months ago

Please see this photo:

Taken about 1910 by explorer & photographer Frank E. Kleinschmidt, it shows Inuit women leaving on a hunt. Note 2 of the women are Inuit; the third, the tallest, is Kleinschmidt’s wife, who the Inuit women taught to spearfish on the ice, as shown here. While Inuit men usually did the hunting/fishing, it was not unknown for women to hunt/fish together on occasion. This photo is in the Collection of the Library of Congress.

em
em
4 years 4 months ago

Yeah, I found that really offensive. Even a woman with a baby on her hip can snare fowl or net fish. The hypocrisy of crying Sexism! while depicting women as helpless requires a special kind of asshat.

Tim
Tim
4 years 4 months ago

Awesome comment em. Right on. Completely agree. When I went through school in Anthropology it was drilled into my head that we see all kinds of live ways in the cultural melange that is humanity… Women have and do participate in all ranges of activities in part because cultures are different but also because women are different. Some can’t wait to have a baby on their hip while others hunger for the spear. Just like men, just like anyone.

-Tim

Christina208
Christina208
4 years 4 months ago

AMEN. Also- it is utterly illogical and has nothing to do with NUTRITION. Even if H/G societies were sexist, so was EVERYONE post agri revolution and arguably more so- which doesn’t freaking matter because it has NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS ISSUE. Asshat indeed.

Kristina
Kristina
4 years 4 months ago
I can’t even begin to rebut this article. Firstly, there are dozens of ways to approach a “paleo” diet. You are referencing one book by one man. “Research published in the journal Nature (on June 27, 2012) reports that almost the entire diet of our very early human ancestors, dating from 2 million years ago, consisted of leaves, fruits, wood, and bark—a diet similar to modern day chimpanzees.” Exactly. Prehumans. No human posesses the enzymatic activity or the necessary gut bacteria to digest cellulose, the main component of your precious Nature Valley Carboard & Granola bars. In fact, only ruminants… Read more »
Graham
4 years 4 months ago

Kristina, FTW!

Christina208
Christina208
4 years 4 months ago

Kristina, you did what I wanted to but was too lazy to. Well said.

Paul
Paul
4 years 4 months ago

Nice work 🙂

miked
miked
4 years 4 months ago

she’s got this one! nice! shooting down all the prehuman evidence for why we should be eating plant based! so much misdirection in this guys article!

Geoff
Geoff
4 years 4 months ago
Civilization is in the eye of the beholder. To me, uncivilized is a way of eating that enslaves humanity to a diet comprised of the commodities of industrial agriculture for the benefit of big business. To me, uncivilized is a diet that nurtures pandemic diseases of modernity for the benefit of big insurance and big pharma. To me, uncivilized is a body of self-annointed experts that disempower human beings from accepting their personal responsibility for fostering their health for the benefit of big universities, big medicine, and big government. To me, uncivilized is advancing a personal agenda through calculated lies… Read more »
yoolieboolie
yoolieboolie
4 years 4 months ago

^^^ agreed, indeed.

mars
mars
4 years 4 months ago

++1

jake3_14
jake3_14
4 years 4 months ago

Well of course the doc. can! That’s why he can defend his position so well — his position is morally superior!

Delete the last line, post it in the FOK comments section, and claim your $50 gift certificate!

ravi
4 years 4 months ago

+1!

Cynthia
4 years 4 months ago

I think you mean self-appointed, not self-annointed.

Batesie
Batesie
4 years 4 months ago

I’ll take the babies brain deep fried in coarse ground wild rice, you can have the super sweet ice cream. anyone else out there eaten a person recently, can’t decide what side to have??

Kristina
Kristina
4 years 4 months ago

My fiance had to have something on his face cauterized last week, and he said it smelled like bacon when the dermatologist started soldering his face. I’d say anything that goes with bacon should therefore complement a person very nicely. Including more bacon.

andrea.
4 years 4 months ago
Dear Dr. McDougall, I am writing to thank you for showing me the light. For a period of time, I was seduced by the primal way of eating and living. You can see how I would have fallen under their spell. They promise increased energy, better health, mental clarity, and more sex — all while eating bacon, steak, delicious coconut curries, and chocolate chilli. I mean, it’s basically the perfect con, isn’t it? It wasn’t until reading your post that I realized this group had a much more nefarious agenda than helping me live longer, healthier, and happier. No, it… Read more »
AD
AD
4 years 4 months ago

Everyone watch out for this double agent!

Bebe
Bebe
4 years 4 months ago

LOL!! I think you probably just scored yourself a gift certificate!

Kristina
Kristina
4 years 4 months ago

^^^ This girl has WIN, in spades.

TJ the Grouch
TJ the Grouch
4 years 4 months ago

Guess what the good doctor peddles:
http://www.rightfoods.com/

Brahnamin
4 years 4 months ago

Bloody Brilliant!

Amber
Amber
4 years 4 months ago

Awesome!

Clare
Clare
4 years 4 months ago

“Meat is good. Vegetarians might disagree, but this is because they’re scared, weak people who are afraid that if the world runs short of cattle, they’ll be eaten first. They’re right.” – Chaos n Pain

Quiet Reader
Quiet Reader
4 years 4 months ago

Who wants to eat a vegetarian? Yuck! They probably have way more O6 than O3! The only good thing about them is– wait for it–

ALL THAT SATURATED FAT. 😛

Kitty
Kitty
4 years 4 months ago

Hahaha!!!

Christina208
Christina208
4 years 4 months ago

I hope you are a writer, Andrea. You are hysterical and your comment was the only thing that made my massive irritation after reading that piece subside.

Tim
4 years 4 months ago

Oh MAN that was friggin’ hilarious. I vote for Andrea!

-Tim

Patrick
Patrick
4 years 4 months ago

Someone googled “why paleo is bad”

Claudio
4 years 4 months ago

I left my 2cents in the discussion. The article is biased and provocative, but what can we do, we cant’ save the entire world

A.Stev
A.Stev
4 years 4 months ago

In the name of Asclepius! That Dr. McDougall should have his medical licence revoked.

I’m starting to think doctors should have to have their licences renewed every five years or something like First Aid certification has to be. Maybe we could filter some of these morons out or at least make them better informed.

TJ the Grouch
TJ the Grouch
4 years 4 months ago

Revoking this idiot’s medical license won’t make a difference. You cannot argue with “stoopid”. As a retired physician, diabetic, I lost 58 lbs. on paleo, my blood chemistry looks great and I look forward to many long years of enjoying my retirement. We all need to learn and to take responsibility for ourselves and our health.

A.Stev
A.Stev
4 years 4 months ago

“We all need to learn and to take responsibility for ourselves and our health.”

That process would be a lot easier (especially for the masses of people not good at thinking critically) if morons like this weren’t out there peddling mumbo jumbo and hiding behind a medical degree and confusing people.

Groundhog
Groundhog
4 years 4 months ago

I can’t imagine anyone other ADM, Cargill, Monsanto, and the shills for these corporations caring what I eat.

BillP
BillP
4 years 4 months ago
Honestly, the question about animals that kill people was just trolling. Of course it’s completely situational. If a drunk breaks into a tiger’s cage and gets eaten, should we label the tiger a man-killer and kill it? Of course not. If there is a rabid, aged or injured man-killer stalking and killing people for food in the wild, sure, kill it. You have to be careful about the exact circumstances and also understand the impulse to retaliate. Too often in history, the impulse has roots in the farmer’s hatred of all ‘vermin’ or ‘predators’, and his dissociation from the real… Read more »
Tim
4 years 4 months ago

BillP! How dare you advocate a measured reasoned response that respects nuance and context. For shame! (Not that I’m saying that’s not something people do here… just that people don’t do it much period)

Isn’t pretty much everything best dealt with in this way though? Yet what I like to call ‘Binary thinking’ where people just reflexively choose one side or the other of an issue is far more common.

-Tim

Michael
Michael
4 years 4 months ago

Three steps to a more civilized primal experience:

1. Always wear a tie or an ascot during mild cardio,

2. Whilst partaking of meat and offal (using a knife and fork of course), remember to extend your pinky finger,

3. During play (ascot optional), remember to encourage your comrades with cheers of “good show old chap,” or “I say – capital frizbee toss my good man!”

Nigel
Nigel
4 years 4 months ago

That might be the greatest thing I’ve ever read!

Kristina
Kristina
4 years 4 months ago
Yeah, I’m posting twice today, but now that I’ve gone over the sore points of that article, I have to ask (and I asked the commenters over there, too): Why do we have to constantly attack each other over how to eat? Not everything works for every person. I’ve cured my own prediabetes, lost weight, and achieved beautiful lab results eating Paleo. One of my close friends does it eating a vegan diet. Other friends of mine do vegan+fish, paleo+dairy, gluten-free, dairy-free, paleo+traditionally prepared grains… We run the gamut between high fat, moderate fat, moderate carb, low carb, plants, animals…… Read more »
Tanja
Tanja
4 years 4 months ago

I think you are right Kristina.
Why all this negativity? Our goal is the same. Health and richer lives. Who cares if one does it Paleo and another does it Vegan. We need to remain focus.
I am Paleo myself but I respect and admire all who makes an effort to change their life to the better.

em
em
4 years 4 months ago

Why? Because it’s sad to see sick children. 🙁

I see fat kids, scrawny kids, pale kids with allergic shiners, kids on daily meds for all sorts of ailments that kids shouldn’t have… All things we know will go away if their parents just fed the poor things real food.

Kristina
Kristina
4 years 4 months ago

I’m all about fighting for real food. It’s the arguing about which real food is the “realest” that bugs me. Get to the “real” part and let it be.

ravi
4 years 4 months ago
have to agree with kristina – i am appalled that our “civilized” world tolerates people with serious eating disorders like veganism to literally starve their children in the midst of affluence and plenty. after several attempts to sincerely and heartfully communicate this to several young vegan parents whose shy (frightened) waif-like offspring were clearly suffering for their parents ignorant – no, downright stupid choices. they will diverge genetically if they survive – our brains have already shrunk by 10% since the advent of agriculture – to continue down the herbivore path will simply lead them to become herbivores with all… Read more »
A.Stev
A.Stev
4 years 4 months ago
I’m not sure who your comment is directed to exactly… I realise you’re trying to be the ‘voice of moderation’ but I think you’re missing the point. Paleo is an umbrella term that encompasses a wide variety of ways of eating; it’s pretty flexible (there are very few “you MUST”s), but this whole idea of “everyone is different” only goes so far. There ARE things that are near-universally bad that people shouldn’t eat. ‘Anything goes’ is just as bad as super-strict ‘Eat only this specific way’. The people here DO eat for health rather than an agenda… we only ‘fight’… Read more »
Kristina
Kristina
4 years 4 months ago
Paleo isn’t an umbrella term to everyone. To some, there is no “mostly paleo” or “paleo plus dairy.” There are just as many absolutists in Paleo Land as there are everywhere else. My theory is that we have more Crossfitters, so the meanness is reduced by self-preservation. It SHOULD be an umbrella term, but unfortunately there’s divisiveness here, too. And my idea of “everyone is different” doesn’t extend to the SAD or CW. I simply mean that as long as you’re doing what’s physiologically and biochemically correct, then to you-know-where with everyone else. In my idea of everyone getting along,… Read more »
A.Stev
A.Stev
4 years 4 months ago
If your ‘anything goes’ policy *doesn’t* apply to CW or SAD then what’s your point exactly? This Dr. McDougall is promoting CW and bad science, not a “Can I handle a little dairy or not?” or a “Am I doing what’s biochemically correct?” approach. Sure, we all have the same goal of being healthy but even you admitted that not every approach (CW & SAD) works. We can’t all just get along, explore our biochemistry together and not fight when there are people who are promoting completely invalid approaches. We *have* to fight when people try to push BS as… Read more »
Kristina
Kristina
4 years 4 months ago
I’m sorry if that’s what it sounded like. I should proof my posts to see how they sound instead of assuming they say what I’m thinking they say. I was expressing my frustration with the rigid attitudes and emotive attacks everywhere, not just from people like these guys who would know better just by having an organic chemistry textbook in the same room. The people who aren’t getting along are the people who have already decided to eat real food but keep sniping at each other over purism. Looking back I obviously wasn’t clear and didn’t bridge the gap between… Read more »
Tim
4 years 4 months ago
I understand your frustration with this behavior. I used to feel it too but I’ve moved to a different place where I feel that even though I’m not out there judging people, looking to find their faults and point them out, others are and that it doesn’t necessarily mean they are wrong and I am right… just that we are different. It’s not paleo or veganism that’s to blame, it’s people. People can get dogmatic, people can be rigid, people can look to place themselves above others. I don’t believe it’s something we can change. It just is. The judgers… Read more »
mars
mars
4 years 4 months ago

Dr. McDougall makes a fortune off his line of “Dr McDougall’s Right Foods” line of crappy processed grain-based grocery store shelf pseudo-food.

Nuff said.

DUBS
DUBS
4 years 4 months ago

totally.

“John McDougall, MD, is medical director of the McDougall Program”

Val Karpov
Val Karpov
4 years 4 months ago

I started reading the forks over knives post, but then I remembered that article on The Onion about the open-minded guy who realized he spent his entire life listening to bullshit. So I just went back to eating my Big-Ass Salad =)

Kristina
Kristina
4 years 4 months ago

You can’t argue with salad. I think we should have a meeting with this doctor over salads and see what kind of vicious flesh-eaters we are then.

alex
alex
4 years 4 months ago

Hahaha the onion , brilliant .

We should be just open minded enough that our brains don’t fall out.

dutchess759
dutchess759
4 years 4 months ago

Just read the Onion article, hilarious!

I’ll also take the liberty of quoting it: Dear Dr. McDougall, “your idea isn’t good and you are wasting our time and you need to shut up right now.'”

Jason Lowenthal
Jason Lowenthal
4 years 4 months ago
Usually, when you have someone espousing something so vehemently, they have an ulterior motive involved. My observation suggests to me that Dr. McDougall so strongly believes in his lifestyle, he cannot possible understand why other lifestyles also make sense to some people. We as humans have the same problem with Religion, Politics, or anything else that can polarize viewpoints. In his case, I imagine that he also has money riding on people believing him. No offence Mark – I know you do to because of all of the wonderful merchandise you sell to people who love the Primal lifestyle. That… Read more »
Allison R
Allison R
4 years 4 months ago
You make a great point! As with any argument – people are very committed to their viewpoint and are unlikely to keep an open mind. I think the part of the article at Forks that made me the most sad is the response in the comments. The supporters of the article wanted to know why so many paleos were reading it! What? I’m sorry. I must have been too busy stuffing my face with bacon to realize that I am not allowed to read articles with a viewpoint in opposition to my own. As a librarian and a champion of… Read more »
alex
alex
4 years 4 months ago
rebuttal” the starch solution uses exactly the same formula as “Paleo” eliminate the processed shit and eat whole food.” in summary , try to get the bulk of your calories to maintain your weight eating as much bland starch as possible and watch the pounds fly off. At a certain point you want quality of life not just to weight less. The tag line of His book(yes he’s selling a book to free you from paleo) is as the eating plan for the (debunked) The China Study. He praises starches ability to create Large civilizations then chides civilizations for their… Read more »
marika
marika
4 years 4 months ago

Since the americas were not in the european radar until 1492 it would have been an impossibility for the romans to have even known about corn or potatoes (which are new world crops), much less eaten them. Just a little heads-up.

Graham
Graham
4 years 4 months ago

Just like the movie “Forks over Knives,” I wasn’t able to make it very far in that article…prop-a-gan-da!!!

Jamie
Jamie
4 years 4 months ago

In the USA, civilized = consuming subsidized kibble; Healthy = medicated; Truth = 65% obesity and mounting. Is our lifestyle uncivilized, unhealthy, and untrue… YES IT IS! We are Primal. We are going “against the grain”. We chose to munch plants and animals over kibble. We play in the sunshine rather than plugging into the Borg. We seek to redefine what is civilized, healthy, and truthful! Grok on!!!

Liz
Liz
4 years 4 months ago

Love this point; several other readers have noted this “Doc” is very much influenced by mainstream media and government “science,” etc, but I think this comment says it so simply. What is civilized or uncivilized anyway?! And if it’s defined by some power- or fame-hungry propagandist, why the hell should we care what’s civil or uncivil? We’re totally making t-shirts that will say “Against the grain,” by the way, thanks for the inspiration 🙂

dan
dan
4 years 4 months ago

Forksoverknives;

Well, what a load of lies in there to boot as well as just bashing meat… how did this guy become a doctor?

I think the best, meat-eating, barbarian response comes from Robert E Howard’s Conan:

‘Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing’.

Run, you bandy legged, pudgy little icon of civilization; the barbarians are coming to eat you.

Chris
Chris
4 years 4 months ago

That article is so full of untruths it’s not even worth the trouble of rebutting.

First, he associates the human diet with that of a primate which never evolved a large brain by eating meat. Then he claims that the reason why we don’t compare our diet to primates is because of sexism.

Then it just gets worse from there…

Jodie Jantz
Jodie Jantz
4 years 4 months ago

Not mine but I think it fits, thanks for the site.

If you hear that someone is speaking ill of you, instead of trying to defend yourself, you should say: “He obviously doesn’t know me very well, since there are so many other faults he could have mentioned.”
-Epictetus

Chris
Chris
4 years 4 months ago

The article claims that grains are good because they allowed the rise of civilization which allowed for conquerors like Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan to form great warring empires.

In summary, grains are good because killing and wars are good.

em
em
4 years 4 months ago

Seriously, right? The invention of private property, wealth, government? I mean, antibiotics are awesome (when used judiciously) and I love being able to expect that all my children will survive to adulthood. But let’s face it, “civilization” is a mixed bag.

Also, can we get a big “thank you very much” on behalf of all the hunter-gatherer societies, whom he does not consider “civilized”…? This article is just dripping with Western Male bias.

Tercio
Tercio
4 years 4 months ago

Two points come to mind. First, follow the money. from his website, 10 day live in program:
Rates
Full Participant
(medical care, laboratory, etc.)
$4,360/person (double) $4,960/person (single). Hmmm, and they give Mark a hard time for selling some supplements.

Second, THUNDERDOME!! Two men enter one man leaves, Grok and Dr.McDougall. Odds anyone?

BillP
BillP
4 years 4 months ago

Right, the live-in program: it’s a safe bet, since nothing will get fixed, he’ll have plenty of repeat customers.

Jo tB
Jo tB
4 years 4 months ago

“If you repeat a lie often enough it becomes the truth”
Ancel Keys comes to mind.
SAD diet proponents come to mind.

“They base their hypothesis largely upon a flawed review of contemporary hunter-gathers”.

Ancel Keys based his hypothesis largely upon his own flawed review of the Mediterranian diet.

I could go on, but I think you get my drift.

Bobert
Bobert
4 years 4 months ago

Every society that adopted grains has shown a decrease in health and more importantly, brain size. So we devolving as a global populace. Sorry but I dont want my great grandchildren to be monkeys because of quaker oats.

Nelly
4 years 4 months ago
Leaving all the bad science and suspicious ulterior motives (someone said this guy has a high-starch “health” food line for sale??), my biggest beef (hah!) with the article was the fact that one its main points essentially boils down to “because, um, ew.” Really, now. You’re a grown man with letters after his name. You’re just embarrassing yourself, as well as insulting the countries and cultures whose culinary canon includes the “icky” parts of the animal, like, oh, osso buco and fois gras and blood pudding and haggis, to name just a very, very few. Personal distaste is not a… Read more »
pam
pam
4 years 4 months ago

Dr. Mc Dougal, you are absolutely correct! All of us primal eaters are evil cannibals who are out to devour everyone who is not like us. Please help us get back into the civilized crowed. You know the one that chugs down Pepsi products and devours junk food. The same group that overlooks or turns a blind eye to the fact that the companies that make their “food” use fetus organs in their taste testing procedures?? Now who are you calling cannibals!!!

mars
mars
4 years 4 months ago

“companies that make their “food” use fetus organs in their taste testing procedures??”

I’m sorry…what?

Noel
Noel
4 years 4 months ago

What do you expect from a group whose brains are shrinking at the rate of 1% per year, according to the latest studies.

ravi
4 years 4 months ago

can you document that? no seriously – do you have a reference – i would love to have that in my arsenal…

Linda
Linda
4 years 4 months ago

I’m always surprised at the hatred that comes out of vegetarians towards meat eaters. It’s like a religion of true-believers. He must suffer from a bacon deficit. If I ate his food products I’d be hungry & fat.

Erik
Erik
4 years 4 months ago

Here’s my comeback:

What can I say? You can’t save people, so I won’t even try. I could attempt a rebuttal, but there’d be no convincing you in the face of such strong denial. Nevertheless, the truth will out, as they say. What I can tell you is that I spent the last 10 years as a vegetarian—the wholesome kind, who cooked all his meals from scratch, everything unrefined and unprocessed—and not until just recently did I ever feel alive. To each his own, though, and you can eat however you want, and so will I.

Allison
Allison
4 years 4 months ago

Not sure if many others noticed, but the author cites a study as evidence that the Inuits (Alaskan natives) get heart disease due to their high-protein diets. I was very eager to check the study because I have always read the opposite. And low and behold! The study concludes “High-carbohydrate diets, particularly in the form of high-glycemic index carbohydrate, have the ability to directly induce atherosclerosis.” So he quotes a study that directly contradicts his statements. That’s just sad!

Clare
Clare
4 years 4 months ago

I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed this. The traditional Inuit diet (i.e. before flour and sugar were introduced through trade, and started causing disease, surprise surprise) has been shown time and again to be excellent for health, vitality and longetivity in some of the harshest living conditions on Earth.

How many sheeple would click the link to investigate further, though?

I also noticed he provided no source for his claim that hunter-gatherer societies subsisting on starches are “free of these diseases”. I call shenannigans!

Go_Hard
Go_Hard
4 years 4 months ago

*Runs to shed to find broom*

Olivia
Olivia
4 years 4 months ago

Dear McD,
So proliferating the human population beyond belief thanks to the “agricultural revolution” is environmentally friendly ? Please tell me how that has led to less CO2 emissions.

Ah well, perhaps your method is what I have been waiting for to cure my Celiacs disease… “the gluten solution” ! I’ll be your test subject. The experiment is simple: You feed me grains, then sit in an enclosed space with me for a while. I guarantee you’ll change your mind.

PS .. 1 word: Phytoestrogens. Not exactly what I look for in a man.

Groktimus Primal
4 years 4 months ago

Perhaps they could try dropping propaganda leaflets from airplanes 🙂

Beth
Beth
4 years 4 months ago

That article was very hard to digest.

Cody
Cody
4 years 4 months ago

I have to apologize, but I cannot write a rebuttal, because halfway through McDougall’s article I started craving some meat and had to head to the BBQ, but 2 points stood out:
1) if the Neanderthal ate all those “starch grains”, where are they now?

2) the whole human brain-eating thing made me realize that zombies have been around 4ever!

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