My Escape from Vegan Island
Every once in a while, I am alternately stunned and amused by what I see being promoted in the name of good health. I had one of those “stunningly amusing” episodes when I took an eight-day vacation with my family to an all-vegetarian health and adventure retreat in Costa Rica several months ago. We had joined a group of 125 headed by Dr. John McDougall, an accomplished and well-respected physician who uses a strict vegetarian/vegan lifestyle to address disease states in his patients and (ostensibly) to promote better health among the general population. I wasn’t too keen on attending, strict carnivore that I am, but I’m always up for an experiment of one and, moreover, I was convinced by my mostly-vegetarian wife and her vegan parents that our extended family would enjoy a nice tropical vacation together. And the food promised to be so yummy… so I made the leap with my wife, two kids, the in-laws and some cousins.
First off, I must say, I did have a very enjoyable time in Costa Rica with my family, rafting, diving, zip lining and hiking…but after what I witnessed during my stay, I can assure you that I have never been so certain that the Primal Blueprint way of eating – which I have embraced for over 30 years now – is the best way to achieve and maintain excellent health. Frankly, I was appalled at both the information being disseminated during this event and at what I saw being served at every meal in the name of “health food.”
I am an omnivore and always have been. Carrie, my wife, was a vegetarian for fifteen years until I convinced her about five years ago to starting adding fish to her diet to get more protein. She still considers herself, in the words of the Outback Steakhouse guy, a “semi-veg.” My wife’s parents have been strict vegans for nearly thirty years and are ardent followers of Dr. McDougall. McDougall’s own story involves having had a severe stroke at age 19 from which, at 59, he still limps. He became an MD and eventually realized that diet was an important part of the health equation. He’s a very likable and charming guy. I had a few superficial discussions with him, even attended a few of his nightly lectures. His heart is certainly in the right place, but I fear he is leading people down a wholly inappropriate dietary path. At the risk of oversimplifying, the basis of his program is that almost all starch is good, all fat is bad and meat of any kind is deadly. It is, in his words, a “starch-based” diet, high in grains and legumes.
The attendees were generally divided into two groups: those who were fairly new to the program – many of them had some serious weight to lose – and those who had been on the McDougall program for several years. Many of the latter group, I gathered, had come to McDougall originally with one or more chronic diseases and on multiple medications. Each evening, after the adventure activity of the day (all of which were pretty sedate), Dr. McDougall would deliver a lecture intended to inform the group of the evils of traditional medicine and big pharma – much of which I generally agree with – and to demonize beef, pork, chicken, fish, dairy of all kinds and most forms of soy. I got the general gist after the first evening. He’s not a fan of supplements either. But he does imply that when you eat vegetarian, you can have all you want…and therein lay the source of much amusement for me.
The lecture would adjourn and everyone would line up for the buffet line which would, at virtually every meal, include copious amounts of breads and rolls, rice, potatoes, pasta, beans, some anemic-looking steamed vegetables and a romaine-only lettuce salad. No dressings allowed. The only fat I could see was in the guacamole that served as a spread. The desert table had a variety of fruits and at least two choices of so-called “healthy” cakes. The drinks were generally overly sweetened fruit drinks.
Now I’m not one to judge. Okay, I am, but I usually keep my mouth shut – except herein. I watched at every meal as overweight, unhealthy people piled their plates with at least two pounds of bread, pasta, rice, potatoes, beans, desert cake, and a glass of fruit juice. Sometimes they went back for more. By my calculations these people were consuming 200 to 300 or more grams of (mostly simple) carbohydrates at each of three meals. There was no way these folks were going to lose fat on this trip. It was, in my view, a type 2 diabetes epidemic in-the-making.
In fending for myself, I focused mainly on the salads and the black beans mixed with a little rice. As you regular readers know, I don’t “do” breads, potatoes, pasta, desserts or fruit drinks. I think they are unhealthy. Go figure. I have to say, it sure got old after a day or two.
Of those who had already been on the McDougall program for years, I had the following general observation: they don’t look too healthy. People who subsist on grains and simple carbs at the expense of quality protein for any length of time tend to lose muscle mass, regardless of their exercise regimen. They are what we call “skinny fat“. Essentially, they have no lean tissue and yet they have surprisingly high body fat levels, despite their loose “skin and bones” appearance. Lean body mass is a major defining criterion of good health; and these folks were sorely lacking. Excess carbohydrate turns to fat pretty easily, but you can neither build nor preserve muscle with it. Herein lies the confusion for many folks: while glucose serves as short-term fuel for muscles, it does not build nor maintain them. One woman, a 62-year old triathlete who trains hours a day and competes almost every weekend authoritatively suggested that I was a fool to eat meat and that I should embrace the McDougall program as she had for 15 years. Problem was, she looked like hell. No muscle tone at all and, I suspect, a fairly high body fat for someone who fancied herself an athlete. It took all I had to keep from saying something that might have spoiled her trip!
As with any diet regimen, Dr. McDougall backs his theories up with studies. But that’s the biggest problem with the “science” of nutrition: anyone can find a study here or there that supports almost any premise. To wit: Fish is great because it’s a source of important Omega 3 fats, but fish is bad because it’s a source of toxic heavy metals, but fish is great because the heavy metals are not actually present at realistically dangerous levels, but fish is bad because the fish lobby was the one funding the study on relative safety, and on ad infinitum.
If there were a right answer, everyone would be doing it. I guess the best any of us can do is to align the “receptivity filters” in our brains with our current belief systems and create habits that reinforce those beliefs – and that, hopefully, result in healthy bodies and minds. Ultimately, I have chosen to believe that we were programmed to eat primarily small portions of meat and vegetables, with a little fruit thrown in occasionally. It works for me (53 years old, 5’10” 165 lbs and 8% body fat).
Problem is, if you have no understanding of biology or chemistry, you can easily fall for that old vegan argument that meat is bad (notwithstanding the fact that there has never, in the entire history of man, been a country, culture or race that subsisted entirely on vegetables without animal flesh of some kind). Many people do fall for it. They also fall for the old “protein leaches calcium” argument, completely ignoring the fact that bones require protein as well as weight bearing activity to promote bone density and prevent osteoporosis. Or that stress has a far greater impact on preventing absorption of calcium than excess protein in the diet. But here I am giving you my opinion again and it’s only based on studies that my filters have shown align with my own beliefs…
I was fascinated by what I saw to be the complete antithesis of a healthy diet being offered up as the healthiest way to eat. And by people willing to accept that they could eat all they want of this high-carb fare and regain their lost health in the process. Try as I might, I couldn’t avoid losing a few pounds of hard-fought muscle myself over the week. Luckily, I was able to regain homeostasis shortly after returning home. And ultimately, I was left with a confidence that following Primal Blueprint path is exactly what humans were designed to do.
What are your thoughts on vegetarianism, carbohydrates, and protein?
Be sure to stick around for today’s Tuesday 10.
(This piece was originally posted at my friend Art DeVany’s blog.)
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Posted By: Mark Sisson
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Go figure. When I first became a vegetarian, I put on a LOT of weight. I’ve since given it up after a CBC showed high cholesterol and anemia, but I still have a bad high GI carb habit.
Hey. . .just surfing along. . .interesting blog entry.
I don’t necessarily follow the McDougall program, but can say that since I gave up animal products a couple years ago, I feel far healthier and energetic. I went down from 200 lbs eating anything I want, but now maintain a healthy wait of 135 at 5′10″. I no longer have asthma, no longer am tired, and never get sick anymore. I used to get sick at least twice a year. My personal feeling is that it’s the best choice I ever made for myself.
Hey, you asked.
Great blog! I have never seen a healthy energy field (through my “3rd eye”). Ditto for yoga. Meat is grounding as it is required for the DNA to properly replicate itself. “Like needs like,” and we humans are more like animals than plants. Vegetarians tend to be spacey, or “ungrounded,” if you will…
I once asked Dr. McDougall how people were going to get adequate fatty acids to maintain healthy brains on a low saturated fat diet. Fatty acids are derived from cholesterol which comes from saturated fat. Is it consequential that there has been a rise in Alzheimer’s Disease since Americans began their obsession with consuming low fats? Of course “low fat” and “low carb” are merely marketing ploys because if you consume more calories than you burn, it will be stored as fat! The doctor glowered at me, “Well, that’s your opinion,” without answering the question.
I could go on, but suffice it, I think he could be more grounded in reality… of what people will eat, which isn’t the “third world diet” he advocates. But he is well intentioned.
I am an absolutely healthy vegan. My doc says I have the heart of a 20 year old (I am 39.7543 – lol) It does not look like the Dr. McD’s diet is very wise (and I am suspect of critiques by “strict carnivores”) but that does not discount all vegetarian or vegan diets. I am suspect of Sensibility is key. My “beef” with meat is simple: there is no way to produce it in a humane way, i.e., there is no way to nicely kill another. Simple as that. I won’t ask for others to be killed for my benefit. It is against all my morals and beliefs.
Fool- fast food or McD’s is not the diet a primal would eat. All meat is not equal. You have to eat CLEAN grass fed meats. Killing for food happens is a way of life. Do you pick up fruit that fell off the tree from the ground or do you ‘HARVEST’ whil it is still alive? It is about being Human- we are what we are. Disney gave animal faces and voices and for a huge Profit.
ALL vegetarians and vegans and Mark! I would recommend a book called The Vegetarian Myth by Lierre Keith.
I can’t resist, although I have commented on being vegatarian previously. I am 71 and have been a vegetarian for 15 years. I did it originally because of marrying a vegan lady, but then I (sumultaneously) got colon cancer and eventually learned that colon causing polyps were no longer forming inside. Previous to veget. diet my colon could have as many as 8 polyps a year; after becoming vegetarian, I have never had another polyp (in ~15 years). Also, I had an oncologist tell me at an annual exam that meat is the main cause of colon cancer. Lastly, I learned that the human colon is some 16+ ft. long, yet a carnivorous cat (all cats?) like a lion might have only a 6 – 8 ft colon. Our problem is the meat, slow to digest, stays inside too long. A cat dumps it much faster and doesn’t suffer as many consequences (that we know of).
But I did enjoy your column, and I plan to check out and watch the problems with too many grains and sugars. My weight? 155 – 160 at 5′10″ and always has been since high school. Health? Great! with no problems and especially no medication, no pain pills and no soft drinks! Ah – life is easy.
…….
Hi-
I became vegetarian 2/12 years ago, and became strict vegan 1/1/2 years ago. For me, it has it’s benefits and drawbacks. Before going veg, I ate only meat, dairy, pasta, and bread. Drank a gallon of milk every 2 days, picked the fruits and vegetables out of everything. I was a dancer, and had a muscular build. I was constantly constipated and did not get regular periods. Also, I had a short fuse. Since cutting out flesh, and then all animal by-products, I’ve lost 12 pounds of muscle mass and fat. While I enjoy having a more feminine body (slimmer arms and thighs), much of my strength is gone, along with the elasticity of my skin. I am only 33 and the skin on my arms and knees is equal to that of a 50 year old who has spent years in the sun. I did not have these problems as a vegetarian, only since I’ve become vegan. I do realize that I am not getting enough fats in my diet, as I mainly live on raw fruits and veggies. I have just added virgin coconut oil, eggs from a local farmer (I’ve met the chicken), and am trying to eat more calories in a day. I suspect my cholesterol is dangerously low as I have stopped getting my periods, again, have pains in my arms and legs, find new spider veins daily, and am constantly tired. The only conclusion I can draw at this point is that animal fats are necessary, but not flesh. Consumption of these fats should be daily, but accompanied with lots of fiber, to help it through the intestines. Any thoughts?
ALL–Please see the CHINA STUDY if you have not,
(milk and meat cause cancer);
dancer lady:–please eat nuts and seeds,
and all yes white flour is = sugar and is a waste,
try eating RAW FOODS veg as much as possible.
ray
Hi Ray-
Thanks for the note. I don’t eat any refined products and do live mainly on raw fruits and veggies. I do realize the risks of consuming meats and dairy, aside from the fact that I would never expect something to die so that I could have a particular taste in my mouth. There are conflicting views and studies about whether flesh consumption is a health risk, but I would be more than willing to read the article in question. Can you send me a link? I won’t eat animals again, but I do need to get a lot more calories and fats. I am severely malnourished and my cholesterol is too low. Any ideas about how I could raise it?
Thanks,
Toni Ann
to the tired vegetarian-
sounds like you’re seriously lacking in the b vitamin department, aside from others. i’ve been veg for over 10 years, so i have been through a lot of the same symptoms… cramping in the limbs sounds like you need some potassium. some may tell you that being tired is obviously a lack of protein, but it could be a lack of b vitamins as well.. it is something that is really hard to get from non meat sources. you should really research it. it can really put a deficit in building and retaining healthy muscles. fats really do keep the skin plump and glowing. try some avocados, and there’s nothing wrong with a little olive oil.. or olives! i’ve been reading in a dietetics text that some veggies have vitamins that are easier absorbed when NOT in the raw form, by the way. an example may be carrots.. you may want to look things like this up before you just start eating what people tell you to! there are some amazing resources out on the web. google search! i hope you feel better soon. with proper fuel, as a fellow vegetarian, i believe you should be able to lead a healthy and active lifestyle.
oh, and i’m not a dietitian, but all i really do is study dietetics. i have had a lot of issues in the past that you describe, and if you’d like my email address, i’d be happy to help you!
-liz
From Personal experience I have tried several times in my younger days to go vegetarian believing the stories about meat causing osteoporosis, cancer, colon problems etc. All 3 times I wound up losing muscle mass, feeling lethargic, and generally miserable. I was the “Skinny Fat” Person. A year ago I gave up all processed prepackaged foods. I now regularly eat organic, free range, hormone free beef, chicken, and bison and wild fish and I have never been happier or healthier. I know that most people who turn vegetarian do in fact loose weight and feel better or conquer their chronic health problems. But it probably has more to do with the fact that they are cutting out the heavily processed foods,instead opting for natural whole foods and dramatically increasing their intake of veggies and fruits and whole unprocessed grains and legumes. I know quite a few people who are or have turned vegetarian and for all of them it has been an entire dietary overhaul not just cutting meat out of their lives. Anybody is going to feel bad if they are eating nutritionally deficient starchy sugary foods. I resepect that some people give up meat for ethical reasons and I personally will only by meat from local farms where I can actually talk to the people who raised it and can assure me that it is treated kindly. But I think most vegetarians who do so for “Health” reasons would be surprised what would happen if they incorporated sensible portions of healthy meat into their diets. It’s not the great evil it the proponents of vegetarianism have made it oot to be.
Second vote on the ‘China Study’.
At the very least look it up on Amazon. There’s never been a larger scale study done on the effects of animal protein on the development of cancer and heart disease – well written and worth a few days of your time!
I was curious about that argument that protein leeches calcium out of the bones. The gist of the argument is that eating too much protein causes you to slide into a metabolically acidic state, and you need calcium to buffer the acid, so it gets taken out of your bones.
The trouble is that we don’t really understand, as yet, the relationship between blood calcium levels and how much is still left in the bones. We can see the loss after it’s happened, but this is an area we need to research more.
Besides, in my reading up on the subject I found out something very interesting: Calcium is not the only buffering agent the body uses. It also uses a certain amino acid which–get a load of this–occurs primarily in animal foods!
So it would seem Nature had this particular food nice and packaged up for us already, and we really didn’t have anything to worry about.
There’s also the point that if you use the bones of the animal, which our ancestors did, you can make broth out of them or simply gnaw on them and get a nice little natural calcium supplement that way. Once again balancing out any “buffering” your body might need to do. Go figure.
One thing I’m just not seeing in the several comments I just read is the impact that mass-producing meat has on our environment. The methane gas, the toxic runoff and waste, the chemicals used on the ‘aberrant’ animals to keep them alive and fat, the amount of water (2500 gals total per lb!), the land needed to grow the grain (which is an unnatural feed for animals)and the inhumane way these animals are raised and killed!
Being vegetarian, vegan or a raw foodist is a personal choice based on many different reasons. The stories told by people who had poor health with these lifestyles either needed a certain amount of animal protein based on their constitutions, or weren’t knowledgeable about how to get enough plant protein and fats in their diets.
I believe everyone has individual dietary needs and you just have to listen to your body. If you aren’t able to fully understand what it requires for a proper vegetarian or vegan diet, than eat meat but know where it comes from (the closer to you the better), how it was killed (visit the farm) and in small quantities (a side dish, not main dish)which means paying big bucks for quality organic, humanely-raised meat.
It is each person’s obligation to become aware of how your food reaches your table, which may compel you to make major changes. My husband and I chose to become (fish/egg) eating vegetarians because affording the highest quality organic humanely raised meat was too exorbitant. Now that we’re mostly vegetarian, we wouldn’t eat meat even if we could afford it, we just don’t desire it anymore.
But we have meat eating constitutions, so I make sure we have lot’s of beans and lentils and nuts, etc. And humanely raised organic eggs and organic butter and Alaskan wild salmon (visit http://www.seafoodwatch.org for healthy and environmentally safe fish choices).
Each of us have a responsibility to be diligent about becoming Aware and gaining Knowledge in everything we do so we can make better choices for ourselves and our planet.
There are a couple of things that need to be cleared up. Dr McDougall is promoting a whole foods plant based diet, which happens to be Vegan. I have been vegan for several years, and my choice to do so was for compassionate reasons. I looked at the cruelty involved in the production of animal products and decided it was wrong for me to partake in that. I do the best that I can to avoid using all animal products. It is important on any diet to eat a variety of foods. Just because you are vegan doesn’t mean you are healthier. If you are just eating fruit & veg, you probably arent’ getting enough calories, so you need to make sure you add nuts, grains, seeds, beans, lentils etc to the mix. If you’re eating fast food, junk or processed foods, you are also not getting proper nutrition. That goes for everyone.
You have to understand that Dr McDougall’s followers are often people who have followed the SAD (Standard American Diet)diet for decades, are overweight and plagued by many health issues and are looking for a cure. His diet recommendations do work, you can hear that from people who have followed his recommendations.
To make claims that vegans are unhealthy, have bad skin and are losing muscle mass is just silly generalizations. That’s like saying all meat eaters are unhealthy. There are many healthy, vibrant vegans out there, I count myself as one of them.
Well said Mary. I could not agree more. The statistics of heart disease, cancer, diabetes is staggering in the US and can mainly be attributed to the Standard American Diet (SAD) filled with processed foods stripped down to have little or no nutritional value. It is exceptional to note that this statistic is not found in other geographical areas. However, they adopt similar health problems when emigrating into the US. What happened here? It cannot be explained by genetics. The article erroneously claims that there have not been cultures with strict plant based diets. Obviously, the author is not familiar with the “Blue Zone” concept.
A diet has to be varied and rich in nutrients. There are unhealthy vegans/vegetarians/omnivores/carnivores. I cannot imagine any doctor prescribing a diet rich in simple carbs, unhealthy fats, sodium and cholesterol.
I am a very healthy vegan, with amazing skin, hair, more energy than my counterparts, choosing good nutritious food, plant based, minimally processed, with no simple carbs, sugars or sodium. You will find lower rates of disease from vegans than you would with those that follow the Standard American Diet.
Avoiding meat because you “cannot ethically take the life of another to feed yourself” is an irrational and untenable argument. Vegans consume plant life, which is just as wonderful, highly evolved, and elegant as animal life. What is the difference between plants and animals with respect to evolutionary and biological signifance? None. There’s no rational argument to make regarding why one non-human life form should die for our sake and another should not.
No one wishes to see animals suffer—the shepherd has a responsibility to his flock—but how do we know that plants do not suffer when we kill them? Is the suffering of plants more ethically defensible than the suffering of animals? If so, I’d like to hear the argument. But save your time because we all know that the difference is one of a human bias towards other creatures like us. The emotional bias is a widespread feeling, but we can’t build systems of ethics and morality on feelings. We need logic and reason for that.
And finally, anyone who argues that farming soy and grains is more sustainable than, for example, huge herds of free-ranging cattle and bison, has completely forgotten—or never knew—that the prairies of the American midwest were once home to some of the richest plant diversity in the temperate latitudes. But it’s gone now, ripped away to feed our insatiable appetite for cheap and unhealthy carbohydrates. And the residues of that farming is drifting down the Mississippi, killing life at the delta. Think about that the next time you bite into a faux-meat soy burger.
So my advice to vegans and vegs: dump the sanctimony and eat some meat. We’ll all be better off for it.
I gained weight as a vegetarian as well. I’ve never much cared for beef or pork. Pork kind of makes me feel ill. I’ve added back in poultry but one thing I learned when I was a vegetarian was that I need to pay more attention to what I’m putting into me. I ate those breads and pastas. I was tired lots. Now, transitioning to a cleaner eating and maybe someday attempting to eat a mammal again, maybe. It’s still a struggle to eat clean but three week step at a time and I’ll get there. Best thing now, I’m never so tired and I dont get so drained with my workouts even though I stopped the whey supplement. Even before with the supplement as a vegetarian, I would get wiped out so quickly.
I just fail to see what’s so unique or new about your caveman diet thing. It seems nothing more than a cross between Atkin’s, and the same, tired ‘whole foods instead of processed’ approach.
I’m sure it’s healthy and will be great for most people, but it’s just..not new or earth-shattering.
We already know vegetables, lean protein and unprocessed foods are best, and that healthy fats are essential (they’re like, even called ‘essential fatty acids)
That’s really just a lot of common sense dressed up as some radical return to nature.
McDougall is up to his old tricks again, this time with a new book called “The Starch Solution.” It is simply amazing what this guy tries to get pass off as healthy living. It’s as if recent scholarship on the problem of metabolic health regarding insulin sensitivity, glucose metabolism, and the like have not even crossed his desk. Moreover, he apparently believes that human history began about 11 thousand years ago. Not an uncommon belief but definitely a problematic one when considering the role of history in shaping human physiology. This man must be stopped.
Read his most recent newsletter here (if you can stand it).
http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2009nl/feb/starch.htm
I would die on this diet in about three weeks.
It’s all about bio-individuality and honoring what works for our bodies. Our biological needs change as we age, and our diets need to be tweaked as much as our workouts do. I agree w/ some of the previous posts that anyone on the S.A.D who makes a switch- whether to raw vegan, ovo-lacto veg, pescatarain, paleo or primal will enjoy tremendous heatlh benefits. Eliminating processed, chemicalized, artifical junk “food” (cue the Fuming Fuji!) and eating more fresh fruits, veggies, whole grains (sparingly) and lean protein will improve anyone’s constitution. We need to listen to our inner wisdon. Mine is pushing me towards more lean protein (with a little help from my personal trainer & naturopath) and away from fewer whole grains & dairy. Once I read my goals I may be able to add some “sensible vices” back- or I may not want to. Staying flexible is the name of the game.
I have heard many vegans claim that they are healthier than meat eaters, but the problem is they are comparing themselves to those on SAD. If they would compare themselves to those who eat small amounts of meat along with fresh vegetables, fruits, grains and no processed foods, they would not be able to make that claim. The problem as I see it is not the consumption of meat, but the overconsumption of it. The overconsumption of anything would probably have an adverse affect on health.
Although I was at one point swayed by the notion that farming animals is harmful, after reading _The Omnivore’s Dilemma_ I now see that a healthy farming system (that incorporates not just animals but also wild grasses, trees, insects, etc.) can be a benefit to an ecosystem; also, after reading Dr. Temple Grandin, I now think slaughtering can be done humanely (doesn’t mean it IS, just that it CAN be). (It even occurs to me that if we cease raising animals for food, those species will plummet down to almost nothing in number….)
Hopefully anyone experiencing health issues will take the time and effort to try new, less-processed dietary choice… just doing that will probably help!
Hehe … I am new to this site and just love what I am finding !!! …I had to comment on the McDougall post simpli b/c I lived in that “hell” for five years – and that was almost 10 years ago and I am still suffering the after-shock !
Basically, when I found McDougall, I thought I found the cure to my SAD (Std American Diet) induced lifetime of fluffiness – I DID lose weight and combined with running, looked OK in clothes for a 32 yr old female LOL ..But then came the problems that I directly attribute to 5 years on a lowfat vegan diet ..
1) infertility – cured that eventually with drugs the first time at 35 and a surprise baby at 3 after 2 years on Atkins (hmm)
2) hypothyroid – I have been on thyrod meds for almost 10 years and still have issues there
3) skinny-fat … My picture must be in the dictionary there next to the definition LOL ! … the destruction of lean body mass and metabolic breakdown has been difficult to overcome
4) I have also found that I have some adrenal issues and gluten intolerance … who knows what else ??!!
I lift 4 times and do HIIT twice a week but am still working on the food thing -I have read a bunch of Michael Pollan, Nina Planck etc – good for general food info but not so much on the fitness – Looks like I can finally get it all together here !!
Thanks for all the great info here and I am going to get the book
liz
oh, did I mention that Dr McDougall’s writings persuaded me to consume large quantities of soy ??!! – in all forms – milk esp – I would definitely say that played a large part in all my issues – sigh !!
second baby was at 39 – not 3 – hehe !
and of course you probably know that soy destroys the thyroid? This is espececially dangerous in infants on soy formulas but it applies to adults as well.
yes, I had to learn that the hard way LOL !! What a bill of goods about the soy – grrr
Mark, DeVany and yourself have been a big inspiration to me. As a Type 2 diabetic I started with Atkins in Dec at 266, journeyed through Low carbs IF and now Primal. Clean is the ONLY way to eat- it makes you think (sort of a hunt and gather) about what you put in your mouth. Keeps fast food at bay even when really hungry which IF has stopped dead in its tracks.
Anyway, this starch, veggie meal plan sounds alot like the Lifestyle Center of America folks. I tried that diet for the 30 days and gained 20 lbs, my numbers were off the charts. Bad information to a public that likes to over eat is like pulling a trigger of a gun aimed at their head. Shame on them and their bank accounts.
meant to add- tipped the scales at 224 this morning. And actually have a body I can remove a shirt and not look like a pig. I give Pavel and kettlebells a huge plus here too.
Keep up the great work.
That was the stupidest vegan diet I’ve heard beyond raw vegans. It’s suppose to be a ratio of 1:1:2 carb:protein:vegetables. That idiot saying carbs were unlimited. He should be sued for malpractice and bludgeoned for being the most misleading vegan leader I’ve heard of so far. Bad enough doing it to yourself wrong but dragging others down with him is just unacceptable. He’s a joke even in the educated vegan community. I’m sorry you had to deal with such a bad example.
When I was a veg for a few years it was the most unhealthy I ever felt. I became anemic, after about two years I began to daydream about meat. This helped me realize maybe my body was trying to tell me something? I feel much better now that I have a balanced diet and have quit demonizing meat.
If anyone is sanctimonious and self-rightous, it is the meat-eaters. I really can’t imagine why anyone is offended that some choose not to eat meat or animal products. Perhaps the meat producers?
It’s absurd to compare the pain and fear felt by fellow mammals and other sentient animals to that (if any) of plants.
I’ve never heard of McDougall or his books or his buffet, but a well-informed vegetarian or vegan will eat a big variety of vegetables and fruit, and all kinds of beans and lentils and nuts and seeds. Breads and cereals and pasta should be whole grain. Nobody should be eating simple carbs.
I just found an excellent book at my local hospital’s community health library: “The New Becoming Vegetarian.” Everything you need to know. Another book, which is endorsed by the Cancer Treatment Centers of America and contains extensive information about foods to help prevent and/or treat cancer is “How to Prevent and Treat Cancer with Natural Medicine.”
Wow, some great insights into delusional belief systems in these comments. I mean, the science is pretty simple – replace carbs with natural fat and protein, eat whole foods, short intense exercise, de-stress. All this vegan = good talk is ridiculous – if you aren’t getting adequate protein and fat, then the macronutrient composition of your diet is HIGH CARB – complete with all the biochemistry that comes with it. Sure, vegetables are better than doughnuts, but that doesn’t make consuming them alone, optimal.
As for the China Study, I suggest those of you citing it as evidence of your vegetarian superiority might like to first learn a little about evaluating studies, the difference between correlation and causality, and the value of epidemiological studies for anything other than hypothesis construction. I have no dog in this fight – I eat lots of meat and lots of green leafy veg, but I must admit that I do dislike idiots who have mistaken their interest in a topic for authority on it.
I married a vegan, who chose it over me in the end. He had really low energy, low moods, and low libido. He could not keep up with me who was four years older, and would be really cranky, because he would often not eat breakfast.
the marriage was a disaster because of his inflexabibity. I begged him to give up the diet, but he thought he was doing it for his health. He used to say he was “optimized” metabolically, but I argued that if “you don’t move much, you don’t need a lot”.
He thought it would help his high cholorstoral (214), but he did not exercise at all.
He was really fearful of pain and the sight of blood, which I think was more of the reason for his choice.
I did develop a healthy eating style because of him, but chose organic veggies and meat instead of following down the “vegan road”.
Did I also mention, he did not cook for me, and I had to cook for him. Oh and lastly, when we did get married, he was shocked by the price of organics- so perhaps he was simply trying to save money.
I would never date a vegan/vegetarian ever again- too restricting at so many levels.
Great post. I am new to MDA and I love it already. I am awaiting my copy of PB [which I hope will arrive really, really soon
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I had been a vegetarian for most of 2008 because I hoped and believed it would be a healthier choice, and would help me lose weight… Can I hear a whatever!! I picked up a lot of weight and along with that, Insulin Resistance.
I know that low-carb works, but aching bones made me drop off the Atkins bandwagon faster than you can say Steak and Eggs.
I think the Primal Blueprint really makes sense because it is a balanced lifestyle program, that not only promotes healthy unrefined and unprocessed food choices, but really goes that extra mile in helping one realize life should be enjoyed at every level, work or play.
Avoiding grain products really makes sense, because every nutrient we can possibly get from grains are readily available in fresh produce and a lot easier to digest.
This makes total sense. Hubby and I will both be implementing this lifestyle.
Thank you Mark for a great website.
Elsie
South Africa
Low- carb especially as developed by Dr Atkins SAVED my life. If people read the book and not the synopsis, they would have far better results and understanding of the diet. I still used Atkins low carb practices in my Primal/IF lifestyle with great success. If left to the ADA and bozos like Ornish and the “grain is good for you so eat lots and no meat” folks- I’d be shooting insulin several times a day- just to break even. Today I use no meds at all, lost 50 lbs, gained a washboard belly and decent muscle tone for someone my age. Thank God for Atkins and all the folks on his shoulders.
Thank you for your blog! I’ve been looking at both sides of the dietary issue for a long time now, as I have Lyme disease and want to get well. I tried the McDougall diet for six months, along with my husband, and we felt well for a time, but I noticed after awhile that I no longer felt strong and my husband was starting to look haggard (even though he said he felt fine). His cholesterol went down 40 points from 180 to 140, but now I’m reading cholesterol may not be the bogey man after all, as might not be fats (The Cholesterol Myth) (Eat Fat, Loose Weight).
Anyway, we’ve decided to add back grass fed meat, but still do a lot of vegetables. We always have done no to low sugar, and whole grains. I have gluten intolerance and lactose intolerance so that complicates diet even more also.
Listen to your body is GOOD ADVICE. While on McDougall, I felt that I just had to have eggs! Then, I just had to have a steak (went to Outback for my son’s birthday) I’ve never been a big steak eater. My body was telling me something, even before we decided to quit McDougall.
The Bible says it well: Moderation in all things.
You seem very long on unsupported rhetoric, (except for your own testimonials to yourself), while McDougall has about 35 + years of solid evidence, backed by a large large amount of independent and historical data,supported by medical research. Still not enough for you?? Let’s try this…in less than 9 full days at a seminar in Santa Rosa,Ca, I went in taking 16 prescription meds and about 9 supplements. I came out taking 5 prescription meds, no supplements, and of the prescription meds, the amounts have either been halved or quartered. My BP & blood sugars are as good or better than when I went in and all my other numbers are better. I’m almost a month down the road, 20lbs lighter, feel better and have no new problems. McDougall’s had all the big guns fire at him without a hit. Your qualifications are what? You base your conclusions on what?
Sorry, just read your bio…essentially, you’re a jock that became an entrepreneur…not a lot of substance there…just a lot of supposition…not a lot of research either…just you searching for a paycheck…not much in the way of data from independent sources either…gotta tell ya sport…I’d love to see you try and support your theory against McDougall with the doc himself live…
P.S. You denigrate the 62 year old lady that competes in triathlons “ALMOST EVERY WEEK” by saying “she looked like hell. No muscle tone at all and, I suspect, a fairly high body fat for someone who fancied herself an athlete.” Well, now we all know that you are in fact interested only in image and not substance. Additionally, you ignore the evidence in front of you because you think it doesn’t look pretty…Pay attention here…SHE’S 62, COMPETES IN TRIATHLONS NEARLY EVERY WEEK, HAS BEEN ON THE PROGRAM 15 YEARS!!! .. and yet, you have the unmitigated gall to SPECULATE, (NO REAL EVIDENCE MIND YOU), she’s NOT HEALTHY???? What kind of drugs are YOU ON??? Tell ya what hot dog…how many triathlons do you compete in every month?? Think you’ll be able to compete IN ANY when you’re 62?? Prove it.
@ Smedley –
I’m a little baffled at how you think it is ok to bash someone else for their thoughts with nothing but rude and insulting comments?
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and as far as I can tell Mark didn’t state any of his in a mean way – he simply said, from hi experience, what the food regimen was like and how the people at the retreat looked.
You, however, seem to feel that you have the authority to say what you please, how you please, while telling others they don’t have that priviledge.
Please, tell me how that can be?
I have no opinion, one way or the other, about what Mark said (I eat meat, mostly because my boyfriend does; but I do wish I could cut back a bit – although not for any other reason than that I’m not a huge fan of red meat), but I also don’t feel that anyone should try to force their views and opinions on other nor make anyone else feel bad about what they feel or think.
Next time you stop by a site that has informationa/stories that you don’t agree with, try to think before you write. You’ll look less stupid and might actually enhance the reading experience for everyone.
There are so many contradictory studies and theories and diets and examples of what happened to real live people. How do you make sense of any of it? I agree all our genetics and bodies are different, but really that only complicates things.