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	<title>Comments on: Is Living Primal Good for the Environment?</title>
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	<description>Serving up health and fitness insights (daily, of course) with a side of irreverence.</description>
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		<title>By: Cowpooling: How to Buy a Side of Beef &#124; Mark's Daily Apple</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-lifestyle-good-for-environment/#comment-225722</link>
		<dc:creator>Cowpooling: How to Buy a Side of Beef &#124; Mark's Daily Apple</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 16:18:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=1654#comment-225722</guid>
		<description>[...] Is Living Primal Good for the Environment? [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Is Living Primal Good for the Environment? [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Taking a break &#171; No Magic Pill</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-lifestyle-good-for-environment/#comment-194048</link>
		<dc:creator>Taking a break &#171; No Magic Pill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2008 17:58:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=1654#comment-194048</guid>
		<description>[...] diary on display. &#8212;Nature: toxic soil could be farmable, primal living good for environment, water filters face their own hurdles, more people than penguins. &#8212;Tech stuff: barcoding [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] diary on display. &#8212;Nature: toxic soil could be farmable, primal living good for environment, water filters face their own hurdles, more people than penguins. &#8212;Tech stuff: barcoding [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Eric</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-lifestyle-good-for-environment/#comment-189160</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 20:42:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=1654#comment-189160</guid>
		<description>Methusela and others have touched on a very important point indeed: the struggle in finding the balance between optimal health (which will vary according to different experts; I, like other readers of this blog, personally choose to believe that the research out there done on the benefits of a paleolithic lifestyle have become undeniable) and optimal care of our environment and the way we interact with it. As you mention, yes, an agriculturist way of life CAN theoretically feed more people, but at what cost? More &quot;unhealthy people&quot;, taking up more arable land in order to feed even more people, indefinitely??? Lets not forget that pastured animals raised in a way that respects nature (such as Joel Salatin of Polyface farm, which Anna also mentions) can be quite environmentally friendly. This type of food production should in no way be compared to factory farming methods that are used to feed the masses today. Many acres of land are unsuitable for agriculture and pasture raised animal thus often become a very viable and sustainable solution, one that has been put in practice for many centuries in places like England and other Northern Europeean countries for instance.

If the most important criteria is &quot;being able to support as many people as possible&quot; then yes, evidently, the agriculturist way of life will allow for this. Alas it also has the potential to support a society that is rampant with all types of disease, such as we are witnessing today. But to say that a paleolithic way of life is not possible due to our society&#039;s structure is using the same argument as those who support mass vaccination, for the sake of preserving something that frankly, probably should not have been allowed to proliferate. To think any other way is entirely anthropocentric. Why should we be so numrerous? Why should we stray away from what our physiology and ancestral gene pool dictate? Are we better than nature, apart from it, better than the wisdom it is based on?

Some people will say it is elitist and entirely irrealistic to think that everyone on this planet can eat according to the Primal Blueprint layed out by Mark. But, quite on the contrary, I think it is absolutely irrealistic to think that we can continue on this path and expect a different outcome. The more food we produce (which is the ultimate goal of intensive agriculture), the more people we can support and the more sickness is bred (through over-production of refined grains and all kinds of processed foods, amongst other problems). Quality should reign over quantity alas, the food industry works completely the other way around. According to Michael Pollan, we are producing on average 20% more calories per person in America, 20% more than we need, and all these calories are shoved into people&#039;s mouth by coming up with more enticing processed foods everyday. And the solution, some propose, would be to produce more of that same food??? Hmmm.

As this article points out, choose your food accodingly (first criteria should be good quality local organic foods, or growing your own...), avoid factory-farmed foods at all cost, and only eat the amount of calories required to support a healthy lifestyle and body weight. The rest, I believe, should take care of itself. More food (low-quality food) is not the answer, and by encouraging the right type of agriculture, population will regulate itself and allow for a higher level of health, as well as environmental and social conscience.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Methusela and others have touched on a very important point indeed: the struggle in finding the balance between optimal health (which will vary according to different experts; I, like other readers of this blog, personally choose to believe that the research out there done on the benefits of a paleolithic lifestyle have become undeniable) and optimal care of our environment and the way we interact with it. As you mention, yes, an agriculturist way of life CAN theoretically feed more people, but at what cost? More &#8220;unhealthy people&#8221;, taking up more arable land in order to feed even more people, indefinitely??? Lets not forget that pastured animals raised in a way that respects nature (such as Joel Salatin of Polyface farm, which Anna also mentions) can be quite environmentally friendly. This type of food production should in no way be compared to factory farming methods that are used to feed the masses today. Many acres of land are unsuitable for agriculture and pasture raised animal thus often become a very viable and sustainable solution, one that has been put in practice for many centuries in places like England and other Northern Europeean countries for instance.</p>
<p>If the most important criteria is &#8220;being able to support as many people as possible&#8221; then yes, evidently, the agriculturist way of life will allow for this. Alas it also has the potential to support a society that is rampant with all types of disease, such as we are witnessing today. But to say that a paleolithic way of life is not possible due to our society&#8217;s structure is using the same argument as those who support mass vaccination, for the sake of preserving something that frankly, probably should not have been allowed to proliferate. To think any other way is entirely anthropocentric. Why should we be so numrerous? Why should we stray away from what our physiology and ancestral gene pool dictate? Are we better than nature, apart from it, better than the wisdom it is based on?</p>
<p>Some people will say it is elitist and entirely irrealistic to think that everyone on this planet can eat according to the Primal Blueprint layed out by Mark. But, quite on the contrary, I think it is absolutely irrealistic to think that we can continue on this path and expect a different outcome. The more food we produce (which is the ultimate goal of intensive agriculture), the more people we can support and the more sickness is bred (through over-production of refined grains and all kinds of processed foods, amongst other problems). Quality should reign over quantity alas, the food industry works completely the other way around. According to Michael Pollan, we are producing on average 20% more calories per person in America, 20% more than we need, and all these calories are shoved into people&#8217;s mouth by coming up with more enticing processed foods everyday. And the solution, some propose, would be to produce more of that same food??? Hmmm.</p>
<p>As this article points out, choose your food accodingly (first criteria should be good quality local organic foods, or growing your own&#8230;), avoid factory-farmed foods at all cost, and only eat the amount of calories required to support a healthy lifestyle and body weight. The rest, I believe, should take care of itself. More food (low-quality food) is not the answer, and by encouraging the right type of agriculture, population will regulate itself and allow for a higher level of health, as well as environmental and social conscience.</p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-lifestyle-good-for-environment/#comment-189146</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 20:18:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=1654#comment-189146</guid>
		<description>new_me&#039;s comment prompted another thought.  Lots of places in the world (&quot;developing&quot; nations) struggle now as they try to compete on the global ag commodities markets, but used to be able to feed themselves.  

But the WTO and their govts decide that instead of producing  native foods to feed local populations, they should grow cash crops to make money instead (either to pay back big WB loans or to make their elite rulers rich).   Then tax-subsidized surplus crops from huge industrial-ag nations are dumped on the global market, dropping the commodity prices even further, ruining the attempts of the farmers in developing nations to compete on an even playing field.  So they starve and we send them more of our surplus grain, which allows for reproduction, but not real health.  

Or the cash crops are unsuitable for their climate and the soil is ruined or drought intervenes, or the crops go to waste because there is no market for it (and not all of these crops are even edible without significant processing, like commodity corn, for example).  Even if it was edible, it is still too much of one thing Now they have no money and can&#039;t feed themselves well, either.  

It&#039;s a vicious cycle and there are a lot of losers for the few winners.  And it sends a location&#039;s natural resources (soil fertility, minerals,  nutrients) somewhere else instead of returning it to the local ecosystem.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>new_me&#8217;s comment prompted another thought.  Lots of places in the world (&#8221;developing&#8221; nations) struggle now as they try to compete on the global ag commodities markets, but used to be able to feed themselves.  </p>
<p>But the WTO and their govts decide that instead of producing  native foods to feed local populations, they should grow cash crops to make money instead (either to pay back big WB loans or to make their elite rulers rich).   Then tax-subsidized surplus crops from huge industrial-ag nations are dumped on the global market, dropping the commodity prices even further, ruining the attempts of the farmers in developing nations to compete on an even playing field.  So they starve and we send them more of our surplus grain, which allows for reproduction, but not real health.  </p>
<p>Or the cash crops are unsuitable for their climate and the soil is ruined or drought intervenes, or the crops go to waste because there is no market for it (and not all of these crops are even edible without significant processing, like commodity corn, for example).  Even if it was edible, it is still too much of one thing Now they have no money and can&#8217;t feed themselves well, either.  </p>
<p>It&#8217;s a vicious cycle and there are a lot of losers for the few winners.  And it sends a location&#8217;s natural resources (soil fertility, minerals,  nutrients) somewhere else instead of returning it to the local ecosystem.</p>
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		<title>By: new_me</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-lifestyle-good-for-environment/#comment-189138</link>
		<dc:creator>new_me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 20:03:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=1654#comment-189138</guid>
		<description>ooops hit a wrong button!

I&#039;ll start again....

A couple comments about some of the comments:

1.  Plastics are made from BY-PRODUCTS of the oil/gas industry.  Oil is not actually brought to surface just for the purpose of making plastic.   (I live near a plant that manufactures plastics and my husband works in the oil field.)

2.  I think that world population DISTRIBUTION and food DISTRIBUTION are more of the problem than is &quot;over population&quot; or lack of space to grow &quot;green&quot; food.  Have you ever been to Canada?  Most people have no concept of the space we have up here.  I have to drive two hours to get to a city, love it!!  (Now don&#039;t all come moving up here, &#039;cause we like our space!)  I have close friends that grow all kinds of meat 100% &quot;green&quot;, organic, grass fed.....PURE GOODNESS....there is lots of space to do it here.  If more people would get out of the big cities and start living off of the land, we could cut the demand for the intensively farmed products and increase the health of our population.  Of course, there comes with that a need to adapt your lifestyle and disposable income.

3.  When you purchase meat from a trusted distributor you don&#039;t need to see it before you buy it and so it can be wrapped in paper that is easily disposed of rather than plastic.  My meat broker friends do this as they would never want their precious, pure meat to soak in any of the contaminants from those awful plastics.

4.  One other thing to add to the main article is to COMPOST everything that you can.  Every little bit that we put back into the Earth will be given back to us many times over when we grow our own wholesome food in that rich, composted soil.  

Am loving this community and its members!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>ooops hit a wrong button!</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll start again&#8230;.</p>
<p>A couple comments about some of the comments:</p>
<p>1.  Plastics are made from BY-PRODUCTS of the oil/gas industry.  Oil is not actually brought to surface just for the purpose of making plastic.   (I live near a plant that manufactures plastics and my husband works in the oil field.)</p>
<p>2.  I think that world population DISTRIBUTION and food DISTRIBUTION are more of the problem than is &#8220;over population&#8221; or lack of space to grow &#8220;green&#8221; food.  Have you ever been to Canada?  Most people have no concept of the space we have up here.  I have to drive two hours to get to a city, love it!!  (Now don&#8217;t all come moving up here, &#8217;cause we like our space!)  I have close friends that grow all kinds of meat 100% &#8220;green&#8221;, organic, grass fed&#8230;..PURE GOODNESS&#8230;.there is lots of space to do it here.  If more people would get out of the big cities and start living off of the land, we could cut the demand for the intensively farmed products and increase the health of our population.  Of course, there comes with that a need to adapt your lifestyle and disposable income.</p>
<p>3.  When you purchase meat from a trusted distributor you don&#8217;t need to see it before you buy it and so it can be wrapped in paper that is easily disposed of rather than plastic.  My meat broker friends do this as they would never want their precious, pure meat to soak in any of the contaminants from those awful plastics.</p>
<p>4.  One other thing to add to the main article is to COMPOST everything that you can.  Every little bit that we put back into the Earth will be given back to us many times over when we grow our own wholesome food in that rich, composted soil.  </p>
<p>Am loving this community and its members!</p>
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		<title>By: new_me</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-lifestyle-good-for-environment/#comment-189117</link>
		<dc:creator>new_me</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 19:28:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=1654#comment-189117</guid>
		<description>...just a couple comments on some of the comments:

first:  plastics are made from BY-PRODUCTS</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230;just a couple comments on some of the comments:</p>
<p>first:  plastics are made from BY-PRODUCTS</p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-lifestyle-good-for-environment/#comment-189006</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 16:13:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=1654#comment-189006</guid>
		<description>Gal,

Yes, it&#039;s the big IF that is critical; I just like to make the point that not all meat production has to have negative consequences, because too few are aware of the better ways meat can be produced, though most by now are aware of &quot;factory meat&quot;.  

But part of the barriers hindering sustainable meat production (and less &quot;factory&quot; meat) is the excessive and out of proportion regulation.  This particularly is the issue with processing facilities.   There just aren&#039;t enough local facilities anymore, and that&#039;s critical for making sustainable, local meat more available and more affordable.   The regulations are created for large scale industrial operations, not small scale facilities.  And starting a facility from scratch take a huge capital investment in order to meet the regulations.  We have to find a way to remove that massive barrier if we ever want to see sustainable meat come don in price and increase in availability, so that it becomes  a real option for more people instead of just a few.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gal,</p>
<p>Yes, it&#8217;s the big IF that is critical; I just like to make the point that not all meat production has to have negative consequences, because too few are aware of the better ways meat can be produced, though most by now are aware of &#8220;factory meat&#8221;.  </p>
<p>But part of the barriers hindering sustainable meat production (and less &#8220;factory&#8221; meat) is the excessive and out of proportion regulation.  This particularly is the issue with processing facilities.   There just aren&#8217;t enough local facilities anymore, and that&#8217;s critical for making sustainable, local meat more available and more affordable.   The regulations are created for large scale industrial operations, not small scale facilities.  And starting a facility from scratch take a huge capital investment in order to meet the regulations.  We have to find a way to remove that massive barrier if we ever want to see sustainable meat come don in price and increase in availability, so that it becomes  a real option for more people instead of just a few.</p>
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		<title>By: 60 in 3 - Health and Fitness</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-lifestyle-good-for-environment/#comment-188957</link>
		<dc:creator>60 in 3 - Health and Fitness</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 14:54:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=1654#comment-188957</guid>
		<description>Anna,
I completely agree IF we&#039;re talking about sustainably grown meat.  I&#039;ve read Joel&#039;s books as well as Omnivore&#039;s dilemma and a few others.  They all pretty much say the same thing.  Organic meat farming can and is good for the environment.  

However, most people don&#039;t eat that kind of meat.  The majority of meat consumption is factory raised meat and that&#039;s actually more dangerous than mass produced plant crops.  Those CAFO&#039;s pollute a lot on their own AND they consume a massive amount of industrially produced corn which also pollutes and destroys the environment.

So by all means, enjoy organically and sustainably grown meat (I do) but be aware that not all meats are created equal.

Gal</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Anna,<br />
I completely agree IF we&#8217;re talking about sustainably grown meat.  I&#8217;ve read Joel&#8217;s books as well as Omnivore&#8217;s dilemma and a few others.  They all pretty much say the same thing.  Organic meat farming can and is good for the environment.  </p>
<p>However, most people don&#8217;t eat that kind of meat.  The majority of meat consumption is factory raised meat and that&#8217;s actually more dangerous than mass produced plant crops.  Those CAFO&#8217;s pollute a lot on their own AND they consume a massive amount of industrially produced corn which also pollutes and destroys the environment.</p>
<p>So by all means, enjoy organically and sustainably grown meat (I do) but be aware that not all meats are created equal.</p>
<p>Gal</p>
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		<title>By: Methuselah - Pay Now Live Later</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-lifestyle-good-for-environment/#comment-188899</link>
		<dc:creator>Methuselah - Pay Now Live Later</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 04 Oct 2008 13:10:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=1654#comment-188899</guid>
		<description>Also, check out http://www.themeatrix.com</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, check out <a href="http://www.themeatrix.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.themeatrix.com</a></p>
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		<title>By: Anna</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/primal-lifestyle-good-for-environment/#comment-187992</link>
		<dc:creator>Anna</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 21:06:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=1654#comment-187992</guid>
		<description>Check out www.honestmeat.com .</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Check out <a href="http://www.honestmeat.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.honestmeat.com</a> .</p>
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