Dear Mark: Primal Blueprint Superiority?
Dear Mark,
If you’ll bear with me for 4 paragraphs, I’ll get to the question which is the purpose of this email!
My name is Greg, and I’ve followed your blog for a few months now. I’m grateful for the knowledge you’ve shared about nutrition. Thanks to you, I’ve eliminated virtually all white flour and processed sugar from my diet, and I’ve dramatically reduced my intake of carbs. I’m still relatively indiscriminate with fruits and dairy, so I wouldn’t say I’m a Blueprinter yet, but I’m significantly closer than when I first started reading your posts.
I came to your site with no “symptoms” from my previous lifestyle. I wasn’t carrying excess weight, my sugar intake wasn’t egregious, and I was a pretty fit 40-year old. Having said that, I was open to challenging my “default” food choices, and some of my fellow CrossFitters swore they saw performance gains after going Caveman (along with Paleo and Atkins).
My only reservation about the Blueprint was – and still is – the science. It’s not that I don’t appreciate the enormous lengths you’ve gone to base your system on above-board studies and peer reviewed literature. (I’m deeply impressed by the education you’ve amassed on your own.) It’s more that I wonder whether current science is sophisticated enough to unlock the potentially nuanced relationship between our bodies and our food. Yes, transfats are poison. And processed foods are certainly less nutritious/more harmful than whole foods. (Although no one seems to have a problem with supplements, which aren’t “whole”…)
But have we really unlocked the secret of how the body is “ideally” fueled? And is there only one answer? I don’t think so – but I do know that people thirst for the assurance that they are following “the one true way”. To me, that explains why certain diets attract cult/religious-like followings. For example, my wife works with people who swear by the blood-type diet. That’s absurd, right? But so is the literal narrative behind most religions – and that doesn’t stop people from having faith. As long as there’s no irrefutable way to isolate dietary choices from the myriad of other variables that affect a test population’s health, people will develop all sorts of (flawed) theories and support them with incomplete/misleading research. (I know how much that bugs you – since you love to tear apart poorly executed “academic” studies and papers.)
And this (finally!) brings me to my question: Why aren’t Italians all dying at 57? To be less cute: if the Blueprint is definitively superior to other modes of eating, why don’t we see populations that eat high levels of wheat-based carbs falling prey to illness and/or early death? We could single out Italians, Chinese (with their gluten), or many other long-thriving cultures that don’t eat Primal. My (totally unproven) hypothesis is that multiple foods interact with our system in ways we don’t fully comprehend. Maybe the dangers of that first plate of penne are counter-acted by the traditional second plate of animal protein. Or maybe it’s the salad, wine, olive oil, etc…
Anyway, I’m really interested in your reaction. (I’m not Italian, so don’t worry about insulting penne!) I find your Grok narrative/metaphor to be a very appealing and seemingly intuitive model for making food choices. But I can’t quite square that with counter-indicating models that don’t seem to be suffering from their “Grok ignorance”.
Thanks again for sharing your knowledge. I really appreciate the thoughtful and valuable contributions you make to this field of study.
Best regards,
Greg
Los Angeles, CA
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Greg,
1) There is no right answer – only choices. I just want to know the ramifications of my choices. That’s what drives me to look further.
2) Whether you eat Primally or Vegan, Mediterranean or SAD, you’ll still probably live a relatively long, relatively healthy life if you exercise. 80 years or 100. Who’s counting? The rest is more about nuances and small percentage changes in overall risk factors. Oh, and lean mass.
3) Italians may not eat as much pasta as you think (or as Italian Americans eat), they may eat more olive oil and healthy animal fats, they may walk more, they may handle stress better as a culture. Chinese don’t eat as much rice as you think. They eat a ton of vegetables and a fair amount of animal products. Having said that, they may both have a large percentage that react poorly to gluten, but who don’t report it. Who knows?
4) Anyone (including me) can find some research that supports their theory. Science is always full of holes. I love poking holes in other peoples’ science. Especially the China Study. Eat Right 4 was a neat concept that had no basis in reality after about 200 years ago. But it caught on with a bunch of people. Sometimes the scientists are so close to the method that they miss the big picture. Sadly, most of those who do the focused studies are not real visionaries. They are almost mutually exclusive concepts.
5) So MDA is my opportunity to put it all out there and see what people think. I may not be right (I think I am, though), but few people are in a position like me to combine solid experiences in endurance training, coaching, nutrition, research, drug-testing, supplement design and writing…and then synthesize those all into a world-view that makes pretty good sense in the context of evolution.
Take what you like from our posts, comment when you have a chance, disregard whatever doesn’t resonate with you, and tell your friends about MDA!!
Cheers,
Mark
I’d love to hear your thoughts on this, readers. Hit me up with a comment in the board!
Further Reading:
Dear Mark: Don’t Call It a Diet
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Posted By: Mark Sisson
I think Riceball’s explanation is right on.
There’s a great scientific explanation in Gary Taubes’s wonderful book, “Good Calories, Bad Calories” (www.amazon.com/Good-Calories-Bad-Gary-Taubes/dp/1400040787). Taubes cites research by Ahrens, who thought it was due to a relative lack of calories compared to high levels of physical activity found in these (typically, in the past) impoverished populations.
I can’t recommend this book highly enough — Taubes is an award-winning science writer who has basically gone back and examined the research on diet over the last 100 years and assessed its quality, validity, etc.
The book gives you the ammo to refute all those questions from the diet mainstream:
– “But your brain needs [dietary] glucose.” – It can also run on ketone bodies, glucose synthesized from the amino acids in protein, and glucose synthesized from glycerol. You don’t need to eat starch.
– “High-protein diets damage the kidneys.” That research was conducted on RABBITS.
– “But how about the Chinese and their high-rice diet?” — see above
The NY Times article by Taubes that started it all is here: http://www.nytimes.com/2002/07/07/magazine/what-if-it-s-all-been-a-big-fat-lie.html He is also a correspondent for the journal Science.
Interestingly enough, my experience with starting the primal blueprint has been the opposite of Katie’s.
As a binge purger, eating more primally and cutting out grains has finally allowed me to let go of the “OMG, those 50 extra calories will go straight to my thighs!” mentality. Before pb, even when I ate what I wanted I till I felt full, 2 hours or so after a normal (carb-based) meal I would immediately get headaches, and hunger pains, which usually lead to more snacking on fruit/grain based snacks and eventually a massive binge.
But by switching to a more pb regimen, I’ve managed to cut waaaay down on the binges. I find it near impossible to binge on hard cheese, the salty-ness and richness make you start feeling sick much faster. Also, since you don’t get to the accompanying sugar rush from carbs, it forces you to realise how pointless slf-medicating with food is and that it’d be more effective to deal with what triggered the binge in the first place.
Went off on a bit of a tangent there, but that’s my two cents. I’ve been an avid reader of this blog for quite a while now, and love the clear cut explainations and accompanying pretty pictures
See, my problems are not generated by being hungry. I rarely binge when I’m hungry. And I can binge on anything: bread, cookies, donuts, deliciously salty cheese, scrambled eggs. It doesn’t matter what it is, because it never satisfies. And even knowing the science and my own experience, I have fewer problems when I say that having a piece of whole wheat toast is not going to hurt me. It’s the same reason that I smoke on occasion: the increased possibility of lung cancer or a rise in blood sugar/insulin and all that means, these are both preferable to the certain destruction of my teeth, fingers, and digestive tract.
In addition, if the eating disorder is not driven by wild swings in blood sugar, consuming self-limiting foods doesn’t really matter. When you use it to run away from emotions and everything you don’t want to deal with and to avoid feeling anything at all, you will never eat enough and you will never throw up enough. Eating according to the Primal Blueprint will not help that.
That’s a great letter, Greg. It echoes my own reservations about the PB exactly.
I have eaten carbs as my primary food my whole life. A few months ago I started to read this blog – and a great one it is too, Mark! The arguments for the PB diet are compelling, but I couldn’t put my finger on why I never actually embraced the diet. It was only until I tried to explain the idea to someone else, that I realised I couldn’t recall reading any scientific facts to back up the PB.
I do agree that science probably isn’t advanced enough to prove what’s good for us and what’s not. Look at how different the health sciences were 100 years ago compared to now. Certainly, what used to pass as being ‘healthy’ has changed! And I think in relation to diet, there is still a lot for us to discover.
The number of people who have tried the PB and found it to work for them seems like a good argument for PB. And likewise, the number of people who are on other diets and enjoying a healthy lifestyle is also very compelling.
Being a very science-minded person myself, I find it difficult to convince myself to make significant lifestyle changes without at least some scientific backing. I’m still not sure if and when I’ll try the PB, but who knows …
There’s so much great stuff here- from Greg’s letter to the various wise replies.
Andrew- your comment above was really interesting for me to read. Like you, I’m a former vegetarian/ pescatarian (20 yrs!) and former chronic cardio-addict. My diet has slowly evolved from veggie junk food to a more whole-foods based diet. But my naturopath & her boyfriend, a personal trainer, finally convinced me (after years of houndng) to try the Paleo/Primal lifestyle. I’ve taken the 30 day Primal Blueprint challenge (I heart MDA!) I’ve been buying my produce & occasional raw milk dairy at local farmer’s markets for over a decade-now I buy my protein there as well. It was really hard to start eating meat again, but I took to turkey & chicken pretty quickly. I’ve moved onto bison burgers (these take a little getting used to!) I am on supplements galore to help balance my hormones. At the gym, I now do only intense weight lifting and sprints on alternate days- both workouts last 45 minutes. It’s so much better than taking endless spin or cardio-sculpt classes! And I bike outdoors & take yoga on my off days. It’s perfect.
This Thurday marks my 30 days. While I have not noticed a significant difference in my body comp (that will be confirmed when I visit my naturopath next week) I fully expect to see a decrease in fat & increase in lean muscle mass as time goes by. I have noticed I am much less humgry than when I consumed whole grains & beans with abandon. My hair is shinier, and my itchy/flakey scalp is a thing of the past. I am also seeing my regular physican for an annual next week. I am looking forward to what he says & what my labs reveal. I fully expect to report back with all good news!
My father died of melanoma & my mom is a breast cancer survior, and I feel that taking control of my health the PB way is the wisest choice for me. I wish I had known about this site a few years ago- I could have shared it with them, and perhaps their health would have taken turns for the better. I’ll never know.
But I intend to stay on the PB for the rest of my life – it makes perfect scientific sense to me!
About grains, it really bothers me that it’s so promoted in that old food pyramid. I have a cousin that is a dietician and she was taught to believe in it and she thinks it’s healthy, i’m healthier than she is, that speaks in itself doesn’t it! I wish everyone would find MDA and know the truth how bad grains are for you and eating Primal is the healthy way to go!!!
The big things make a big difference. Cut out candy, sodas and junk food and you’re going to be much healthier. Start exercising and being active in general and you’ll live longer. At that point, adding a few more or a few less apples a day will make some difference but it’s going to be pretty small.
All these cultures live a relatively healthy lifestyle. It may not be primal, but it’s also not McDonald’s central.
Gal
I live in Campania, Italy (Southern Italy) were they are famous for their pasta and pizza … which they eat a lot of including other various sweets. Not at all like the diet of Rome and further North. They, as a group, are short, fat, weak (I play Rugby, and have never played with/against such weak opponents), and die young. In fact, my neighbor died two months ago at 55 from complications to diabetes. The more traditional diet is plant and meat based, with a little pasta and sometimes some potatoes, but very few of them eat that way anymore. Especially the younger generation, and they are extremely unhealthy. When I go to the grocery store here, it is as bad as the states when it comes to processed foods. Of course there is a section for the traditional food, which I take advantage of, but that is not what is primarily bought by the average Southern Italian.
If you are concerned about the science behind a PB type diet, try reading the book about the Metabolic diet. It will give you more studies and references than you could ever want. They advocate using a once a week carb-up for hormonal/body building purposes. It works, but I don’t think you feel as good as the PB diet. In fact, sometimes during the week (especially after the carb-up), you feel down right sick. However, using the diet I got the strongest I have ever been. (405 bench, 500 dead-lift, 475 squat) I am now following more of a PB diet, because I am trying to lose weight and am not as concerned about strength as I was before. I feel a lot better, and am losing weight (fat) faster. This post kind of got away from me, I hope it helped.
Just thought I should add some observations on my Chinese relatives.
Calorie restriction: I calculated my average daily calories while staying in China: ~1200 (I ate as my family did too). And I wasn’t hungry. The only reason I can guess at for this is that the food’s ALWAYS the same. There isn’t any “Oh, feel like some Indian tonight?”. All meals are home-cooked, and they’re all the same flavor family. I mean, you CAN go to Pizza Hut or KFC if you want, but it’s generally viewed as a special treat (and it is–KFC’s a popular date place over there).
Another note, but I don’t know if it’s just my family–when we go out to restaurants on weekends or special events, we don’t order rice. At big parties and banquets it’s not normal to eat rice either.
And and I noticed when my aunt and uncle wanted to lose weight, she just stopped eating rice at dinner and ate only veg.
No sugar, too. Like, ever. Sometimes a piece of fruit after dinner, if in season. It’s actually because of my family that I knew fruit wasn’t too good even before I started hearing about Primal–my great-aunt became diabetic after a long affair with lychees.
Yup, diabetic on FRUIT.
Donna – It can make quite the argument when you come up against someone who has studied diet and nutrition! I try not to comment too much but the other day couldn’t help it as the topic of health and nutrition came up with a friend who is a fitness/Health professional. The conversation really revved up when I said that ‘basically most of what you believe in, my beliefs are the opposite.’ These people have gone to uni and studied for years for their degree so I can see why they stand their ground. I think that it is fantastic how for me personally, only been into the PB for approx five months can see from my own results that my new way of eating and fitness far out ways my former decades of the ‘old way.’ The results do speak for themselves and so for me to turn everything on its head is a major augment with most people, after all I was one of those ‘most people’ not too long ago – which is why I don’t get into it with friends/family, only those that are genuinely interested.
Yes it would be so good if others found the knowledge that we have found, only I think we are the minority.
I’m so glad someone wrote that e-mail because I’d been wondering about the exact same things.
Dr John, you’ve inspired me.
Once I get through my beers, I’m going to join you.
Greg, excellent questions. The fact is science is very difficult to conduct and interpret, and hardly anyone who claims to know the answers knows what they are talking about. Stay skeptical.
Cobalteffect — if you’re looking for science to back up the PB, try Gary Taubes’s book (“Good Calories, Bad Calories”). It has all the detailed science you could ever wish for, written by an award-winning science writer of national reputation.
Wow what a fascinating thread! The observational stuff from Riceball et al. is interesting. Backs up a quote I can’t attribute “in the Third World the poor are thin and the rich are fat, in the West the poor are fat and the rich are thin”
More quotes I can’t attribute: Genes load the gun, the environment pulls the trigger
Our funky genes had obvious survival factor, in times of food shortage we could probably outsurvive nondiabetics, or as yet someone else wrote “we survive famines, but feasts kill us” and currently we’re stuck in energy stashing mode. It’s probably a matter of degree, we’re the dietary canaries in the coalmine. Probably a third of the population carry a form of the “thrifty” gene set and our government is expecting a third of the population to become diabetic. No expense spent on prevention.
Here’s another vote for Taubes (it’s called The Diet Delusion in the UK), a massive and hard to read book but well worth the effort, he ties together a wealth of stuff we used to know, but were instructed to forget, with modern research.