Is It Primal? – Sprouts, Agave Nectar, Tapioca and Other Foods Scrutinized
Since it seems to be popular with this crowd, and we’re never running out of questionable foods, I figured I’d take the time to put together another round of “Is It Primal?” I got most of these choices from the comment sections of previous posts, along with follow-up emails. As always, feel free to fill in the blanks after the post. I have a strong feeling this will become a recurring series of posts, and I’m going to need plenty of material. Today, we’re talking about seven foods: sprouts of all kinds and origins; agave nectar, nectar of the metabolic syndrome gods; soy lecithin; coconut aminos, what hipsters have moved onto from tamari; tapioca, gummy starch; animal skin, food of the gods; and Quorn, “food.”
Let’s go:
Sprouts
Sprouts are a bit like sprites, in that they’re all over the place, agile, and difficult to get a bead on. Whether it’s pro-sprout or anti-sprout, solid data is tough to pin down. For one, “sprouts” is an incredibly non-specific term. Sprouts can come from legumes, grains, vegetables, and nuts. In other words, if it’s got a seed, you can get a sprout from it. And so you can’t look up the nutritional data for “sprouts,” because that would be like looking up the nutritional data for “meat.” It could be almost anything.
What we need to analyze, then, is the sprouting process. Does it do anything bad? Good? Is it neutral?
Sprouting tends to convert some of a seed’s sugar into vitamin C (to act as an antioxidant for the plant). That’s good. We no longer make vitamin C ourselves, so we need an exogenous source. Not a lot, but some.
Sprouting tends to reduce phytic acid (but not saponin content).
What about specific sprouts? I dug up a few citations:
Sunflower sprouts have anti-glycative and antioxidant effects, due to their elevated cynarin content.
Broccoli sprouts sound great, particularly for type 2 diabetics. In a double-blind placebo-controlled trial, they reduced oxidized LDL (and improved the oxLDL/LDL level) and decreased triglycerides in diabetic patients. They also reduced insulin resistance in type 2 diabetics. And finally, they reduced oxidative stress in type 2 diabetics.
If you’re making your own, note that antioxidant levels wax and wane throughout the sprouting process, at least in broccoli sprouts. Sulforaphane, the potent antioxidant responsible for many of broccoli’s benefits, declines upon germination, then increases slowly until hitting its high point at 48 hours post-germination, after which it declines. But don’t worry; glucoraphanin, which converts into sulforaphane, increases during the first 12 hours, sharply drops, then rises again, reaching the highest levels at 72 hours post-germination. Of course, glucoraphanin requires the enzyme myrosinase for conversion, but broccoli sprouts are particularly high in myrosinase, so you’re ending up with plenty of sulforaphane either way.
I see no reason why sprouted celery seeds, broccoli seeds, radish seeds, or lettuce seeds wouldn’t be perfectly Primal. Lentil, oat, or bean sprouts? Probably not technically, although even those would be far less problematic (bean sprouts go great with spicy Thai food on a hot day). Just be aware that they have been linked to international E. coli and salmonella outbreaks, probably due to the warm, moist growing conditions required for sprouts.
Verdict: Primal, depending on the starter seed.
Agave Nectar
Agave nectar is a favorite whipping child of the Primal set, but we should substantiate our claims, don’t you think? We need to justify those welts, especially since a few of you guys were wondering (hoping?) about its place in the Primal Blueprint.
Agave nectar is insanely high in fructose. Of the sugar present, up to 92% of it is pure, unadulterated fructose. That’s considerably more than table sugar, most honey, and even high-fructose corn syrup. If we want to avoid fructose, agave nectar must also be avoided.
However, the recent honey post shows that not all sugar behaves the same. Honey – a “natural product” – contains a wide range of bee-based phenolic compounds that appear to render its sugar content less harmful than, say, a dose of HFCS with the same amount of fructose. Since agave nectar is also “natural” (it’s gotta be, with “nectar” and an exotic word like “agave” in the name), could it too be different than other sugars. No. A recent study found that while stuff like honey, molasses, and maple syrup all contain significant amounts of antioxidants that potentially mitigate the metabolic damage wrought by the sugar therein, agave nectar – along with refined sugar and corn syrup – has almost none. Even raw cane sugar beat agave nectar out in the antioxidant category.
Verdict: Not Primal.
Soy Lecithin
Many of your favorite darkest chocolates contain soy lecithin as an emulsifier, promoting smoothness and a luscious mouthfeel (whatever that means). Dark chocolate? Great. Anything with “soy” in it? Bad, or so we have been conditioned to react. But is it?
In a previous Dear Mark, I made the case that a little soy lecithin in your chocolate is nothing to worry about, even going so far as to mention the choline content as a benefit. Since the influx of questions on soy lecithin, however, I’ve revisited my stance and found some new evidence. It seems that across a whole host of soy products, soy lecithin was the most estrogenic (though estrogenic activity was found in almost all foods tested, even non-soy ones). And in “frozen rat spermatozoa,” soy lecithin – but not egg yolk (another source of choline) – interfered with mitochondrial function. Contrary to my previous assertion that soy lecithin cannot trigger soy allergy in allergic people, another study found that soy lecithin could contain “hidden soy allergens.”
I would caution any soy-sensitive individuals to stay away from soy lecithin, just to be safe. If you’re worried about missing out on a great dark chocolate, plenty of legit brands contain no soy whatsoever. Just check your labels. I would also suggest that any chocolate eaters with unexplained unpleasant symptoms make sure the chocolate they favor contains no soy lecithin, and try switching to a soy-free brand for a month. If you feel better, you might implement soy lecithin avoidance as a general rule.
Everyone else, don’t shy away from good dark chocolate. Just don’t eat it too often, supplement with soy lecithin, nor feed your baby dark chocolate.
Verdict: Not Primal, but small amounts in occasional chocolate shouldn’t be too bad for most people.
Coconut Aminos
Coconut aminos are the soy sauce replacement du jour, a gluten-free, soy-free combination of aged coconut sap and sea salt that tastes somewhat like soy sauce. It’s not an exact match, but it’s not really trying to be an exact match. Coconut aminos are their own beasts, and these happen to be tasty beasts.
That said, there’s nothing really remarkable or magical about them. Its purveyors like to talk about the presence of 17 amino acids, but so what? Trace amounts of certain amino acids in a sauce that you’ll consume by the tablespoonful probably aren’t going to amount to much of anything. Consume it for the unique taste and the lack of soy and wheat.
Verdict: Primal.
Tapioca
I’ve covered tapioca flour in a previous Dear Mark post, in which I gave it a relatively clean bill of health. Tapioca is simply purified cassava starch, with basically everything else removed. My original pronouncement hasn’t changed much. It’s fine as far as starches go, if you’re active and using the carbs. I would’t go overboard with it, especially if it comes in pudding or boba tea form, but it’s definitely a “safe starch.”
The major downside is that it’s just starch. It’s extremely low in anti-nutrients, sure, but it contains almost no nutrients, either. The biggest claims to fame of a cup of the stuff are 2% of the RDI for folate and 2.4 mg of iron. It won’t do you much harm, but it won’t do you much good, unless all you’re after is glucose.
Verdict: Primal.
Animal Skin
I almost didn’t include this one, because I figured it was a no-brainer, but then I figured that if several people are asking about the suitability of animal skin on a Primal eating regimen, it’s likely that a lot of people are avoiding it just to be safe. I think that’s a tragedy, and I aim to rectify and prevent it.
Animal skin is fantastic. In the past, I’ve discussed my love for sockeye salmon skin (bacon) and roasted chicken skin, but not everyone shares my enthusiasm. At restaurants, I often see people delicately remove chicken skin with polite disgust on their faces. At my local seafood market, I’ll often ask the guys behind the counter to save me the Pacific salmon skin that people have removed. I think they’re nuts for doing it, but I’m happy to take advantage of their mistakes.
Although I wouldn’t recommend eating charred, crispy animal skin every day of the week (although braised, gently-cooked animal skin is fine all the time), animal skin in and of itself is highly nutritious. Salmon skin is high in omega-3s. Other animal skin is high in animal fat, plus collagen and gelatin, which are excellent for joints, nails, hair, and skin while providing a nice counterbalance to a regular intake of muscle meat. As long as the animal in question was healthy and fed a good diet, I would never shy away from a serving of animal skin.
Verdict: Highly Primal. If you’re not eating it, send it to me.
Quorn
Until today, I’d always assumed that Quorn was a mock meat derived from corn, a grain. That makes perfect sense, right? I mean, it sounds like “corn.” Now that I realize it’s a mock meat derived from a fungus, I feel betrayed. I suppose I understand the decision – Fusarium venenatum doesn’t really have a ring to it – but it’s not really the origin of the stuff that turns me off (although that doesn’t help). It’s the fact that Quorn (do I have to capitalize that?) is fake meat, and people are presumably eating it despite the presence of actual, real, delicious, nutritious meat.
Vegetarians? Any vegetarian who chooses Quorn as a protein source over pastured eggs is nuts. Oh, and speaking of nuts, I’d eat nuts for protein before Quorn, too. Vegans? Sure, go ahead and eat your quorn for protein. I’m frankly not all that interested.
Before you fill your chest freezer with Quorn Tenders, Quorn Cumberland Sausages, and Quorn Tikka Masala (all real products, by the way), however, read about the allergic reactions people have had to Quorn. Some sources claim 4.5% of people who eat Quorn get sick, while other sources say just 1/140,000 report adverse reactions. I don’t think it’s a huge risk unless you’re sensitive to molds, but it’s something to keep in mind.
Verdict: Not Primal, but not because it comes from a fungus. Just eat some meat, dude.
That’s it for today, folks. I hope I didn’t crush any dreams or ruin any dinner plans (agave nectar marinated Quorn steaks, served with a soy lecithin-emulsification). I just wanted to keep you honest.
Do the same for me and leave a comment. Thanks!
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Posted By: Mark Sisson
“nor feed your baby dark chocolate”
Err what? Why? My 2yo has been eating 80% since she was 1 year or so… Should I be concerned?
Also, isn’t chicken skin particularly high in Omega-6?
I started drinking Coke when I was, I think, 5 and have been a caffiend since. In high school I moved on to energy drinks and drank them just about every day.
I also had an experience with red whine around the age of 5 (I think it gave me a strength boost – I was at a wedding reception at a farm and lifted one end of a plow with ease while two older kids stood there in awe) and accidentally got high off cough syrup as a kid a few times (I recently discovered this through self reflection).
I crave all the above, though I don’t drink much.
Whenever I was sick with a cough as a kid even if my throat didn’t hurt I always wanted cough syrup and I’d ask my mom for it. I loved drinking it from the spoon even though it tasted gross, and then I’d feel better. I thought it was because I wasn’t coughing and the syrup just took away cold symptoms. Dextromethorphan is a semi-synthetic opiate with a wide range of pleasurable effects. No wonder I loved taking medecine so much when I was younger, like the banana-flavoured antiobiotics I slurped down regularly through an alligator spoon for my constant ear infections until I had tubes in my ears. I also had plenty of sugar as a kid. Cereal, pancakes, fruit roll-ups (“made with real fruit!”), “fruit snacks”.. that was a huge part of my diet.
Mark,
How about Luo Han juice used as a natural sweetener? I’m thinking it’s like stevia and therefore primal, but is it really
Quorn ‘…comes from a mold organism (Fusarium venenatum) that was discovered in soil by scientists in the 1960s. This organism is then multiplied en masse in steel containers with some added sugar and nutrients and then contrived into foods such as burgers, sausages and meat.’ – Dr John Briffa
Not a natural food just because it is manufactured from mold in dirt.
Thanks for the input Dr John. I’ve never heard of this Quom-stuff til now. It’s disgusting! Worse, I must have eaten it and didn’t know it (like so many foods). And contains sugar? All I can think of now is moldy meat burgers, moldy sausages, and probably moldy spaghetti and ravioli. Humans can be really sick in the head sometimes.
I love chicken skin…. its almost the whole point of roasting chicken… duh.
Good write up, but doesn’t clarify sprouts enough for me. A later comment mentions “goitrogens”. Real? Concerned?
Animarchy, as a bug eater, I recommend you check out bee larvae. Tasty, numerous, big and more than one reference discusses how the larvae were an early intended food source for people.
thanks for the conversation folks.
Thanks, you just gave me an idea… Buying bugs at pet stores.
Love this info….thanks, Mark!!!
The study about mitochondrial function in frozen-thawed spermatozoa is about ram, not rat, sperm.
Thanks for the heads up about soy lecithin. I only eat it in chocolate, and assumed it was such a small amount as to not bother me, but it’s worth eliminating and testing.
Just found this website on chocolate ingredients, sort by cacao content and start at 100%. Looks like Green & Blacks is soy lecithin free as well as several others. Just not sure how available they all are but worth checking out.
Doh, might help to attach the weblink!
http://www.ceder.net/chocolate/view.php4
I used to eat quorn but I started getting sick – like really sick when I ate it. In my research I found that it’s not just some “fungus” found growing under a tree in Ireland or whatever – but it’s a highly processed fungus they made in a vat – and then they add a bunch of sugar and other stuff to it to make it taste good – it’s definitely not primal! Yeah, anyway, I like sprouts on my salad… but lately, i’ve just been eating pears on my salad – way tastier!!
*btw-OLD email address
I always appreciate these posts but I really don’t GET why PRIMAL is so hard for everyone? I am probably…gosh 75% primal, i’d guess, but I follow a few simple rules i’ve picked up from various places:
1. If it doesn’t have a mother or it doesn’t come from the ground-it’s not going in my mouth.
Narrow that further-
2. I don’t eat grains, legumes, or dairy.
3. Whole foods only.
I don’t get much more specific except to eat organic, grass fed, and free roaming as much as possible.
WHOLE FOODS. It’s not that hard.
Surely you just forgot to mention number
4. Healthy fats.
I’m with you on numbers 1, 2, and 3…it’s not that hard to eat right. But it is hard to find the good foods. Fortunately, I can raise all my own food…chickens, sheep, goats, veggies and very little fructose (fruit). I adore healthy butter, and the good salts. I’m eating a tablespoon of butter right now…yummmy
I do miss some old favorites: spaghetti, mac and cheese, and burgers. So I splurge (fall off the wagon) once in a great while. Then back on the good stuff, feeling no guilt.
Many people have hassled me over my love of chicken and salmon skin…it’s one of the best parts! Thank you for the vindication. ; )
Question about skin: if it’s not organic skin, is it still a good idea to eat it?
I was under the impression that in non-organically raised meat, that the skin has the highest concentration of toxins?
I’ve been wanting to eat pork rinds, etc but havent found any “organic” ones and am scared off by te possible toxins.
Please advise
Ps: salmon skin, a little crispy on the outside, with that creamy omega-3 rich fat on the inside: pure heaven.
My understanding is that the toxins do tend to concentrate in the skin, so this yet another reason to eat organic chicken and wild salmon. I love pork rinds too, and would be curious to know if organic ones are available as an indulgence once in awhile.
i LOVE salmon skin!!! yummmm today i had some
Fairly new to the Primal diet but learning a ton. Agave nectar as noted in this blog is a “no-no”. What are the three most “primal accepted” types of sugar? One for say coffee or tea, one for sprinkling on fruit and perhaps one for baking?
Xylitol is not bad for baking, but baking usually involves some kind of flour, so you’re treading a treacherous path no matter how you slice it. As an occasional treat, okay, but daily primal muffins are a bad idea and a crutch.
Honey and real maple syrup are okay in moderation. I know some people that put honey in their coffee.
You don’t need to sprinkle sugar on fruit. Especially once you have cut down on the amount of sugar you consume, you’ll be surprised that even vegetables taste kind of sweet.
Mark’s done at least one post entirely on sweeteners, so you could look that up for more on the biochemistry.
Thanks for warning me about quorn mark.
Doesn’t Quorn products contain wheat flour as a binder and wheat gluten?
I used to sometimes eat Quorn but not now as it has gluten in it according to the list of ingredients here in the UK. Just thought I’d mention it, cos I don’t eat wheat flour or gluten, and I’m trying not to ingest gluten in any shape, form or way.
I, like a few others, am having a hard time understanding why some people find it so difficult to determine what they should/should not eat. Granted, when it comes to certain whole foods I do understand some of the confusion–but I don’t understand why so many people are buying/eating so much packaged and processed food. I guess I’m just so spoiled living down here where the only things I buy in packages in the supermarket are cleaning products and toilet paper.
I also don’t know if the meat I eat is organic or grass fed or whatever but it doesn’t matter to me because it is what is available from the butcher. I only buy locally raised chicken and chicken eggs, alpaca from the nearby Andes, beef that is raised in the central and southern regions of Chile, and fish/seafood that I either catch myself or buy from the sea port.
Yes, I do eat cheese and won’t give it up for anyone or anything. I love it and I eat it almost every day with no adverse affects. I did try a 30 day “no cheese” test and felt no different physically during or after I reintroduced it, so it isn’t causing me any problems. I feel deprived without it and my life is not about deprivation.
I also don’t want to have to “learn” to like something. If it tastes like shit then it tastes like shit. Period. I don’t care how good it is for me. I won’t take supplements because I know I can get all my vita-nutrients from the food I eat.
I guess I can’t sit around getting my knickers in a twist about every little thing. Life is too short–even if you do live to be a 100+ to spend so much time worrying and tying yourself in knots about every little thing. If you feel good and are eating as well as you can–yes, finance and likes/dislikes definitely play a role–then you are probably fine. So what? One thing you really enjoy, like crispy chicken skin, is not from an organic source and you eat it a few times a month–seriously–you’re going to worry about that? You probably get more toxins from the air around you than the small amount you might pick up from non-organic chicken skin every once in a while. The worrying and sitting on your ass in front of the computer researching everything until your brain is running in circles when you could have been outside taking a walk does more damage.
Oh, when I say “you” I don’t mean anyone in particular, just a general word meaning “anyone who is having these kinds of concerns.”
Love your post!
Amen.
You just spoke volumes. And by “you”–I meant you, you wise woman!
Without your vetting of foods, I would be somewhat lost.. I began the ‘Primal’ diet 3 months ago, so to have an invaluable resource as this site and your knowledge is so helpful…Thank you for the diligent research!
Very interesting to read on the USA vs. UK websites the ingredients in the same Quorn products. The UK items have fewer ingredients. But nothing I’d ever eat.
Thank you for the post on Agave. People keep saying it’s a healthy sugar substitute, when it’s actually as good as high fructose corn syrup or some other extracted-sugar-syrup. Now I have it confirmed.
Love your work Mark… Thanks!
I have recently joined in on primal eating and have a couple of questions to ask. With all of the talk about fats, I haven’t notice you talk about organic coconut oil, just the greatness of virgin olive oil… don’t you think it is equally as good or better?
My daughter read parts of a book a Dr. wrote on wheat and how it has changed since the 1940′s and the rise of celiac disease. He himself has that and said that when he made bread from farmers that raised their wheat as it was anciently without modifing it to have more gluten, it didn’t effect him at all. What is your thoughts about making your own bread using ancient grains? I order all my burgers protein style when I eat fast food, but every once in a while a hot, toasted piece of bread covered in butter or organic coconut oil sounds pretty good!
Any suggestions for acid reflux/hiatal hernia conditions?
Thanks for all posts and help with my questions!
I make bread for my family, I personaly dont eat it, but I cant control everything they eat and want especially with 2 small boys and wife that is still on the fence about primal. So I bake. I do sourdough bread, fermented for 3 days. The difference is that I use Kefir for the starter, and I ferment the loaf for 3 days not just the starter. By day 3 most of the bad stuff is preaty much gone. Its a great bread and more like a primal early ansestor to the quick rise 1 hour loafs of today. Even a 16 hour rise isnt enough. Using Kefir is great as I dont have to care for the bread starter. One tip is to put the doug into a bowl and brush with coconut oil to keep stuff from drying. I also grease the pan wit duck fat when I bake!
Fermented stuff is great for reflux, so I have read. I eat it every day. I used to have reflux only when eating comercial cream, which sux but thats my body telling me to not eat it so I listen, you will probably find what your cause is by experimentation. I have no issues with Kefir and that is the only dairy besides butter that I have.
Michal,
Question re: Sourdough
Would you please clarify your sourdough recipe?……we are making good clean sourdough and not having a lot of success with raising a nice loaf…….any assistance would be appreciated……I make my own Kefir from Raw Goasts Milk daily and would really like to make great Sourdough as we have eliminated so much and that includes all grains – this would be wonderful to have for those that miss bread!
Thanks, Esther
I sorta do the same stuff but I use a wild starter, do you do the same? I ferment the “dough” for 2 days then make the actual dough. Bake the bread in a dutch oven then it is really good. I use a mixture of almond meal and coconut flour and I only make it when I really need it.
“I have recently joined in on primal eating and have a couple of questions to ask. With all of the talk about fats, I haven’t notice you talk about organic coconut oil…”
Here is one of Mark’s thorough articles on all things coconut, including coconut oil:
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/the-wonderful-world-of-coconut-products/#axzz1vkF1ITqG
I had terrible reflux, medicated, for years — until twice-weekly yoga completely cured it. I don’t think it was the yoga per se, I think it was the improvement in my posture / strengthening of my back.
Never heard of Quorn (and don’t know how to pronounce it) but unless it tastes like bacon I’ll stay clear of it (quorn bread and quorn chips doesn’t sound too bad though)…with you guys on the animal skin…That’s the best part of any animal!
Pronouced Kworn.
Never had it. Always thought the idea was vile and never healthy.
We LOVE chicken skin at our house. In fact, my 2 1/2 year old gets really upset if I buy skinless, boneless chicken thighs for dinner because they are missing his favorite part! We had roast chicken last night, and I think he ate about half of the skin on there…and would have had more if we let him. We found out the hard way that his stomach really can’t handle any more than that
.
Another nasty with Soy Lecithin is that it is extracted with hexane which is neurotoxic. Much of which would be evaporated off but there would still be trace amounts which is enough to make me want to avoid it. It was in my protein powder so I switched to a non emulsified plain one. I then found it was in my dogs food so switched brands. I had no idea how much it is used. Its even a supplement or used in supplements.
Boy am I with you on the animal skin, Mark!
All those years of boneless, skinless chicken breasts make me cringe now. What was I thinking?! Now I just roast everything and it is divine.
Just FYI: quorn is nowhere near vegan…it is chock full of egg protein and whey. And yeasts and other not so nice stuff. My guess is the reason so many people have adverse reactions to it is that it is full of some of the top food allergens but folks dont realize that until it is too late.
I’ve never heard of quorn before. I don’t get it. If you want to eat fake meat made of fungus then make a great big portabello mushroom and pretend it’s steak.
I also find it odd how people struggle with the “is it primal” question so much. Animal skin? How could anyone ask such a silly question. This blog is full of posts about bones and organs so of course skin is primal!
Basically eat green plants and animals. Avoid reproducing your former foods with fake primal substitutes (aka “candy cigarettes.”) Start there and everything will begin to make sense and soon enough it’ll become obvious that coconut aminos and quorn and agave syrup are unnecessary so why even worry about them.
“…agave nectar marinated Quorn steaks, served with a soy lecithin-emulsification”
Thanks for the idea! I will incorporate this into our next menu cycle for EliteEATS. I’m sure all my crossfitting clients will enjoy it
but is frozen rat spermatozoa primal??
lol