Dear Mark: Is Fluoride Safe?
Today’s question addresses a contentious topic in the health arena: fluoride. It’s in (most of) the tap water we use, (most of) the toothpastes with which we brush, and even (all of) the teas we drink. It represents a bloody stage upon which skeptics and the natural health folks battle it out. Many in the Primal community would like to avoid it (as they would any government-endorsed hydroadditive) if possible; if it’s not possible, they at least want to know just how bad the stuff really is and whether its intake can be mitigated. Should we use fluoride-free toothpaste? Should we install household filters? Argh. So many questions and so few definitive answers… and here’s yet another. Ah, life!
Dear Mark,
What’s your take on fluoride? To drink fluoridated water, or to filter it? To use fluoride-free, natural toothpaste, or is it one of the benefits of living in a modern world?
I can’t seem to find any conclusive evidence on the web as to whether it is good or bad, and while I asked my dentist, I would love a second opinion. (his waiting room was full of posters advocating a “low meat, low fat diet”…)
Thanks,
Annika
I’m probably going to take flak for this one, but so be it. I’m not particularly concerned with fluoride in the water. While I’d definitely prefer it weren’t added to almost every municipal water supply in the country, I think we have far bigger fish to fry when it comes to health. Avoiding blatantly poisonous foods like grains, sugar, and industrial seed oils is the most important thing we can do, followed by getting adequate amounts of exercise, sleep, and sun while reducing or mitigating stress. Once you’ve got the chest freezer full of pastured animals, a good workout regimen dialed in, a source of pastured eggs you can rely on, the perfect sleeping position entrained, and you’re waking up without an alarm clock totally refreshed and energized, then you can think about installing an expensive reverse-osmosis filter for your entire house or importing Nepalese glacier water. Before that, I don’t think it’s worth the trouble.
But don’t take my word for it. Let’s look at the evidence. I’m going to focus on a recent report on current EPA standards regarding fluoride by the National Research Council’s Board on Environmental Studies and Toxicology. Before you assume that these groups, being governmental bodies, are automatically suspect, note that the EPA requested the report and, in response to the NRC’s findings, has recently recommended a reduction in the maximum allowed dose of fluoride to be present in drinking water. They also suggest an optimum dose to be added – 0.7 mg/L – down from the previous 0.7-1.2 mg/L range. Currently, the average fluoride content of fluoridated municipal water supplies is 0.8 mg/L.
There is strong evidence that fluoride does offer protection against dental caries, but “the more the better” is probably not true and most recent reviews of the evidence suggest that topical fluoride (as in toothpastes, gels, and foams) are more effective than systemic fluoride. The NRC report references several literature reviews that conclude “the major anticaries benefit of fluoride is topical and not systemic,” and a more recent study finds that evidence for topical fluoridation is far stronger than for municipal water fluoridation (PDF). In fact, fluoride is most effective in the “post-eruptive” period, or after teeth have begun to appear, rather than as a preventive measure. As for systemic fluoridation? 0.7 mg/L of drinking water seems to be the sweet spot where cavity protection peaks. In fact, some studies show that as fluoride concentration approaches 1.2 mg/L, cavity incidence increases (PDF), right in line with the NRC’s recommendations and just under the average dosage in most water supplies.
Fluoride appears to become really problematic to humans in two scenarios: when intake is extremely high; and/or when intake of other important micronutrients and minerals is low and inadequate. The primary health issues ascribed to fluoride consumption are bone health and thyroid dysfunction, for which there is ample evidence – but that doesn’t mean the amounts we typically get from fluoridated water are sufficient to provoke them. As per usual, the dose makes the poison.
Opponents of fluoridation claim that fluoride makes for brittle bones, low bone density, and higher fracture rates. Proponents claim the opposite. The truth appears to be someplace in between. One study looked at different populations in China with different levels of naturally-occurring fluoride in the water ranging from 0.25 mg/L to 7.97 mg/L. Fracture rates increased at both extremes, with the lowest rates coming in populations with water fluoridation at 1 mg/L and the highest rates coming at between 4 mg/L and 7.97 mg/L. So, ultra low levels weren’t protective, l0w-to-mid levels were, while mid-to-high levels were definitely not.
It seems that, unsurprisingly, how fluoride affects bone mineral density depends on factors beyond just the amount of fluoride you’re getting. Calcium matters, for one. Rats on a calcium-deficient diet displayed impaired bone density and strength when given fluoride at 10 ppm and 45 ppm, while it took fluoride at 45 ppm to induce bone density problems in rats with sufficient calcium. Note that it only took sufficient calcium rather than supranormal amounts of it to protect bone density. Vitamin D matters, too; researchers induced rickets in vitamin D deficient rats by giving mega doses of fluoride (between 30 mg/L and 100 mg/L, unheard of doses that you’d never encounter in real life). Giving vitamin D prevented rickets, even though intestinal absorption of fluoride was increased with vitamin D supplementation. And it looks like magnesium interacts with fluoride, too. Magnesium deficient rats have more fluoride in their bones and teeth, and a magnesium deficiency increases fluoride absorption rates.
Iodine status of the organism interacts with, and sometimes predicts, how fluoride will affect the organism. For example, rats with sufficient iodine intake are able to tolerate drinking water with a fluoride content of 10 mg/L without negatively affecting thyroid status. At 30 mg/L, those same rats display reduced thyroid function and increased thyroid weight. If rats are iodine deficient, however, 10 mg/L of fluoride is enough to severely hamper thyroid function. Iodine deficient cows are also more vulnerable to fluoride’s effects on the thyroid.
Since we can’t give megadoses of fluoride to iodine-deficient humans in RCTs, human studies are mostly epidemiological, and thus not conclusive. That doesn’t make them any less interesting, though. Workers in an aluminum processing plant showed signs of fluorosis and thyroid dysfunction; fluoride is a common byproduct of aluminum plants, so aluminum workers are exposed to an inordinate amount of fluoride on a daily basis. 65% of workers with more than ten years of service at the plant and 54% of workers with stage 2 fluorosis had hypothyroidism, while 76% of the workers diagnosed with chronic fluoride intoxication (indicated by liver damage) also had hypothyroidism. In other words, the greater their exposure to fluoride, the greater their chances of developing hypothyroidism. The average intake for workers was 10 mg of fluoride per day. For comparison’s sake, most fluoridated tap water contains around 1 mg/L fluoride, so you’d have to drink 10 liters of tap water just to approach the amounts these workers were taking in. Another study actually tried to use fluoride as a treatment for hyperthyroidism. Out of fifteen patients with clinical hyperthyroidism, six responded well to fluoride treatment, with basal metabolic rate lowering to normal levels and the symptoms of hyperthyroidism abating. Although fluoride treatment was considered statistically ineffective in the other nine patients (most of whom had Grave’s disease, an autoimmune hyperthyroid disorder that isn’t really linked to iodine intake), some displayed modest signs of improvement nonetheless.
Overall, iodine status seems to determine whether fluoride will negatively affect the thyroid. Excessive amounts of fluoride exert negative effects regardless of iodine status, but standard fluoridation should be pretty harmless to the thyroid as long you get enough iodine.
They also looked at data on fluoride and various cancers, cognitive deficits, reproductive dysfunctions, liver/kidney/immune systems, but found nothing conclusive. Acutely elevated intakes beyond what you’d get from 4 mg/L exposure was linked with liver and kidney damage, but no evidence that normal intakes are dangerous. They also note that folks with renal impairments tend to accumulate and absorb more fluoride than people without kidney problems (since excess fluoride usually passes through the kidneys en route to the toilet). I recommend reading the linked sections, as they go over all the evidence and explain why it might mean something or why it might not. I’m not totally convinced we have nothing to worry about. There’s a lot to wade through, including some interesting cancer epidemiology.
What about other sources of fluoride? Fluoride isn’t just in the water we drink. It’s also in the products that use tap water, like soda and beer. It’s in tea leaves, with black having the highest levels and white having the lowest. Although one woman even developed severe skeletal fluorosis from drinking two gallons of tea each day for thirty years, tea consumption has reams of epidemiological and clinical evidence for its benefits that can’t be thrown out simply because of the fluoride content. Moderation is key, and longer brewing times increase fluoride release. It’s also commonly found in toothpaste. A pea-sized dollop of fluoride toothpaste has about 0.3 mg fluoride, while a larger, commercial-esque serving contains upwards of 2.25 mg. Don’t swallow your toothpaste (whether you use fluoride-free or not) and you’ll be okay.
Bottom line? Fluoride is a ubiquitous trace element that you can’t completely avoid, so to lose sleep over it is probably counterproductive. To wage campaigns against it and spend your days raging about it probably cause more stress and harm than they help. It’s in the food, in the soil, in tea leaves, in the water, and in any product that uses or includes municipal water. The best advice is first to avoid processed food, which you already do (right?). Next, eat lots of plants and animals to insure mineral repletion (while avoiding grains and legumes rich in mineral-binding phytic acid). Then, get daily sun or take a vitamin D supplement. Last, eating good Primal food means you’re avoiding the processed junk and sugary drinks that are high in fluoride. After that, I think you’re good. If you’re anything like me, you’re probably getting most of your hydration through real food, rather than gallon jugs of bottled water – so there’s another avenue of avoidance. To be on the safe side, check the local levels of fluoride (some naturally occurring water sources have levels far higher than the 0.7 mg/L-1.2 mg/L they add to water, so even non-fluoridated areas could be getting really high levels, which you do want to avoid) and respond accordingly. A reverse-osmosis filter, while expensive and somewhat wasteful, will remove fluoride.
It may be that I’ve been sheltered from water fluoridation – Malibu only recently got fluoride added to the water supply – but I haven’t noticed any ill effects, and I drink both tap and tea. High levels are harmful, but they aren’t common. One estimate pegs average daily intake of fluoride for a teenager living in a fluoridated area at around 1.85 mg. For non-fluoridated teens, it’s 0.86 mg/day. For people living and eating Primally? I’d wager it’s even lower and safer than that. You gotta look at the big picture. Complete avoidance of fluoride in all forms is impossible (and unnatural – remember, fluoride occurs naturally in water), so just make sure you’re good in all other aspects of health and let the chips fall where they will.
Did I miss anything? Are normal physiological doses of fluoride as dangerous as some people say? Is it all worth stressing over? I’m totally open to being enlightened. Let’s get it going in the comments (and I know you guys got plenty of ‘em!).
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Posted By: Mark Sisson
I am fortunate to have grown up without being subjected to fluoridated drinking water, and now live in Vancouver, one of the last remaining big cities where municipal drinking water is not fluoridated.
I had very limited access to sweets as a child, was taught proper oral hygiene (including flossing) from a young age, and have always visited the dentist at least once – if not twice – per year.
At 31, I am still 100% cavity-free, and have had no major dental or orthodontic work other than having my wisdom teeth extracted.
I do use fluoridated toothpaste, but I decline the fluoride treatments my dentist offers.
I suspect that diet and oral hygiene have a far greater impact on prevention of dental caries than fluoridating municipal drinking water.
Just one missed point:
Fluoride is accumulative! Now recalulate your answers because this becomes a vital issue especially for those with kidney impairment, diabetics and those with immune system malfunctions.
This “fluoride” is also classified as a poison, the bags say “do not ingest” and there is no regulation on the quality – it remains an industrial waste and an envirnmental pollutant – humans play an important role in the environment – or hadn’t you noticed?
Cheers from Australia where we are fighting this government madness.
Yeah ….and we are swimming in a sea of Nitrogen (gasp!) ….and argon (oh no!) and Carbon dioxide (oh my!) and when I drink water I’m ingesting Hydrogen (eek!) …….chemicals, chemicals everywhere!
isn’t it so cool to be sarcastic! Don, don’t be ridiculous.
That’s exactly how I rate him.
I’m neither a dentist nor a doctor but I do have a qualification in Biochemic Medicine.
I’ve studied fluoridation for about eight years and I still question why the dental fraternity consistently say “it is natural and it comes from rocks and is an ingredient in toothpaste” – why is it necessary to lie when it is natural and safe?
Yes it does come from rocks but when it is subjected to extraction by powerful acids it changes its chemical “formula”.
Why is fluoride extracted and why does it become a waste product? Why don’t they release it into the atmosphere?
They remove the fluoride because natural fluoride is found in minscule amounts and with other minerals – fluoride if left in fertiliser would kill the plants – it is not natural to “top up natural minerals” with an S6 poison to an “un-natural level”.
Super Phosphate fertiliser “destroys” natural minerals in the ground, in crops, in animals that eat the crops and humans that eat the crops or the meat – as someone further up said – my mother distilled our water – yes removed all of the minerals and thus depriving you of healthy teeth and bones – this canot be fixed through consumption of fluoridated water!
Hi,
I thought I would throw in my experience with the subject of fluoridation here because I truly have a unique perspective on it.
I grew up in Newburgh NY, the 2nd town to ever get fluoridation. It was part of an experiment on fluoridation back in the 1940′s. The town of Newburgh got fluoridation, and the town of Kingston did not.
Of a greater note, my pediatric physician that I went to as a child was none other than Dr. Russell Scobie, the pioneer of fluoridation. The test was one of his many projects over his life to promote flouridation. Often he would comment on it. (The water plant in my hometown is named after him).
My connection to this doesn’t end here though. It was noted in the town records of Middletown (right up the street from Newburgh) that the Mayor conducted her own experiment. Former Middletown Mayor Gertrude Mokotoff supported fluoride in theory. She had even done her own little fluoride experiment. Her first two kids never took fluoride. When she had twins in 1955, she gave them fluoride supplements. The result? Her older children had lots of cavities. Her younger children had none. (from the records of the town).
It doesn’t stop there either. I met her son Charles (Chucky) Mokotoff when I was 8 years old at summer camp. I think the problem is that people don’t want it foisted upon them. They want a voice. Nothing wrong with that, as long as the voice is the voice of reason. Think about what they put in water for sanitation. Do you think that you could drink water from a public water supply if there weren’t chlorine in it? Would you like to try? I was in Egypt last December. I saw the difference. Trust me- you don’t want the untreated water. You don’t want to me exposed to it.
Primaldog, people have survived millions of years drinking untreated water. Force greedy industry to stop polluting, using chemical pesticides, drugs, etc. Then we won’t have as much disease. Fluoride can not prevent cavities if you eat soda and pastries. Don’t kid yourself that it was the only variable in Mokotoff’s family. Maybe her older children got formula and the younger ones got breast milk. Maybe the older ones were exposed to pollution more before environmental laws changed. Any number of variables can explain. My own experience is different. I brushed mainly with water and seldom flossed for ~18 years with no cavities. I started drinking lots of soft drinks and eating french fries, suddenly nine cavities in rapid succession. I stopped eating soda and eating other garbage and haven’t had cavities in 7-8 years, despite brushing mostly with water. I also avoid the tap water as much as I can and get my water from foods. Don’t think that your theory of fluoride is the only possibility.
My sister-in law’s daughter had perfect teeth. Her son had terrible teeth. Same everything else. This proves that we should put estrogen in drinking water to prevent tooth decay.
This is the most uneducated thing ive ever heard…Im a dentist and hormones have no effect on your teeth. Everyones calcium efficiency is different related or not…it about how you take care of your self.
How about adding motor oil to the water supply as a cure for baldness?
That’s almost as silly as saying drink sunscreen to protect from sunburn.
“To wage campaigns against it and spend your days raging about it probably cause more stress and harm than they help. It’s in the food, in the soil, in tea leaves, in the water, and in any product that uses or includes municipal water.”
It’s in tea leaves, but we’re not dosed with tea; we choose to drink tea, if we do at all.
Flouride is a non-essential additive to municipal water. Chlorine is added to disinfect, keep water safe to drink, and can be easily filtered out. Flouride, on the other hand, is providing nothing that good dental care wouldn’t cover. The sole purported reason is to control tooth decay. Tooth care is not and should not be a government-controlled function.
Along the same lines you could make an argument for involuntary dosing of vitamin D in public water sources for “the good of the people,” but that still wouldn’t make it right.
Actually – there is one company that “regulates” your imported fluoride that is advocating just that but with the minerals magnesium and calcium – and if you know anything about “interactions” you will understand why this is not a good idea!
My toothpaste and deodorant is equal parts coconut oil and baking soda with a hint of mint extract!
I’m somewhat surprised to see Mark take this stance. Sure doesn’t seem very Primal to me, either.
I’m fairly certain I have an allergy to fluoride. I used to vomit when getting the mandatory pink/brown toothpaste “treatments” on “Dental Health Day” in school. I was the only kid that reacted like that IIRC.
I’ve used fluroide-free toothpastes for years now. No problems yet. But I get choked up and puke-y if I use fluoride toothpaste while visiting others. I’m to the point where I’m going to just use water or baking soda in a pinch if I must.
Although I don’t advocate consuming fluoride, I appreciate Mark’s stance. Many here may not agree with it, but hey, Mark’s a person like everyone else with unique beliefs, thoughts, and opinions. To place other issues above fluoride, as he stated, seems acceptable. Can you blame a man for being honest?
If we agreed with everything Mark said, well then, we become sheep! Fluoride or no fluoride, these kinds of posts should make everyone do some more research to formulate their own thoughts on the issue.
This is why I keep coming back to Mark’s blog day in and day out. His articles are well thought out. He has done tons of research. Most of all though, the lifestyle he advocates is both healthy (and backed up with more research) and PRACTICAL. Mark isn’t creating a cult of a few extremely dedicated followers (well maybe a few). Mark is taking real human nutrition to real human beings. I have been both following this diet, and advocating it for my clients for several weeks now and seen both great results and adherence. This article is a perfect example of health concern hierarchy. Flouride is a minor concern when compared with excessive weight game and excessive slothfulness and mark puts that right at the top. However, it is still a potential concern, and he makes the article meaningful. I know I am just singing praises here, so i apologize for my rant. Flouride to me is not really a concern, as mark said, you would have to be drinking tons of water and tea, and swallowing toothpaste, to see any effect. For those of us who eat primal, we get less exposure than most, so I am not too worried about it.
Furthermore, for those who’s comments reflect anecdotal evidence against Fluoride, remember as a blogger, your credibility is everything. Mark has to base his posts and opinions off of sound scientific evidence or he will lose his credibility in the scientific arena. If that happens the common man will lose a strong advocate for real nutrition. The government powers that be can just write us off as a “fad diet.”
it may not be an issue for you or mark, but the problem is that it’s being delivered to everyone without their consent and without control to individual dose.
“you would have to be drinking tons of water and tea, and swallowing toothpaste, to see any effect.”
That is completely false. 40% of current adolescents in the US have fluorosis.(CDC)
Fluoride bio-accumulates and is persistent in the environment. The longer we introduce fluoride into our environment the more we will see it’s toxic effects. It’s just going to get worse…
so what do we do about it then? because i’m not going to stop drinking tap water. i ain’t rich.
shz, you can get spring water for less than a dollar a gallon most places. You can also get water by eating food. There are people who suggest relying on foods like milk, eggs, fruits, and pure juices for water. The person who said you can’t live without water is wrong. People have lived without any drinking water and the body adapts to conserve water. People in the past didn’t guzzle water like people today have been brainwashed by big media and the government to do.
I agree. It is being delivered without our consent, however, it’s not beyond our control completely. While I do believe mass fluoridation must be stopped, we can bypass most of the effects by simply refusing to drink tap water. Don’t you find it a little strange to rely on the government for our water source? That’s surely not Primal.
I said it before, but high quality spring water, harvested personally from wild springs, might just be the way to go. Of course, with all the dumping, fracking, and polluting that’s going on, our springs have the potential to become damaged.
Just like we feel better knowing exactly where our food comes from, it’s important to know exactly where our water comes from.
About 15% of adolescents have enamel fluoridosis (fluoride staining of enamel) even in areas where there is no fluoridation and water has low levels of fluoride. The highest levels of fluoridosis are in naturally fluoridated areas (38%), followed by areas fluoridated to the optimal level (26%).
See
“Prevalence and trends in enamel fluorosis in the United States from the 1930s to the 1980s.” J Am Dent Assoc, Vol 133, No 2, 157-165.
nm looked it up under google, ouch, some people can’t even stand up
how do i know if i have fluorosis?
is that something i can feel, or see? sorry new to this
Enamel flurosis (which is what the figures above refer to) is when your teeth have tiny specks of white in the enamel.
This isn’t serious and is usually unnoticeable unless you look for it.
I noticed it for years before I knew what it was. It started when I moved from well to city water.
I use one of these filters http://www.crystalquest.com/Fluoridefilters.htm
Really hope it works because it is super affordale.
Many countries in Europe that used to fluoridate their water have stopped because it has been seen that the fluoridated water doesn’t actually help. Fluoride only “works” when it is applied directly to the teeth. Otherwise the fluoride tends to build up in the bones and cause many problems later on in life. Also, there have been studies on remote tribes that had no form of dental hygiene yet had none of the problems we in the industrialized world have. However, once western food was introduced into these tribes, dental decay became rampant. Coincidence?
It always goes back to Weston A Price IMO,people in the past did pretty good without flouride…we live in a feedlot
Fluoride is utter poison. Take a look at the back of a tube of toothpaste. It has “drug facts”. Fluoride is considered a drug. So you are being given a drug with no without your permission. And THEN is says to call poison control if swallowed. Keep in mid the “dose” of toothpaste recommended, which is just a pearl sized drop. Swallow that, call poison control!
I’ve invested in a whole house filter to remove all added fluoride.
And don’t forget that Germany found fluoride very useful in Poland. It helped keep the polish population calm as they were sent off to the concentration camps. It’s no coincidence that Prozac and a few other antidepressants contain fluoride.
It’ s also no accident that most of Europe has now banned fluoride being added to water.
Water fluoridation is not a way of pacifying a population, you’re veering off into paranoid fantasy.
Prozac contains a fluorine atom in its structure, it also contains nitrogen, oxygen and carbon atoms. Similarly, the anti-fungal agent fluconazole also contains fluorine, nitrogen, oxygen and carbon atoms. because these two drugs contain the same types of atom, you think they have the same properties?
It is the arrangement of atoms in a molecule that create its properties, not some form of simpleminded atomic bookkeeping.
Go and learn some basic chemistry.
Go learn some basic history.
Read Wikipedia’s page on “Unethical Human Experimentation in the United States”
As part of its atomic bomb research, the Atomic Energy Commission (AEC) sponsored experiments to test the health effects of putting fluoride in drinking water. Fluoride, which was a common byproduct of atomic bomb manufacture and of chemical manufacture in general, and was widely used as a rat poison, had numerous known adverse health effects at the time. The AEC was worried about lawsuits filed by workers at their bomb manufacturing facilities, and residents who lived nearby, who were being exposed to large amounts of fluoride and were experiencing severe health problems, and in some cases dying, as a result of exposure.[86][87] Initial water fluoridation tests were performed on the citizens of Newburgh, New York and took place from 1944 to 1956 as part of a classified operation known as “Program F”. With the assistance of New York Department of Health personnel, they then gathered blood and tissue samples from the citizens of Newburgh to test the effects.[87] According to a 1948 issue of the Journal of the American Dental Association, mention of the adverse health effects of fluoride was censored by the AEC as a threat to “national security”.[86][87]
Your conspiracy theory was about the use of fluoride as a mind-control agent by the Nazis in Poland.
This quotation about industrial fluoride poisoning in America. Poland isn’t in America.
Oh, sorry. Two different Daves.
One of the characteristics of conspiracy theorists is that anybody who tries to point out reality automatically becomes part of the conspiracy.
Anyway, you’ve got the wrong man.
I was the guy on the grassy knoll, shooting at JFK with the Martian ray-gun I got from Roswell.
“you’re veering off into paranoid fantasy.”
…Are you an Elitist Egotist? Yah, show off with a little chemistry talk. If you really knew chemistry, you would know it’s not just some “simpleminded arrangement of atoms into a molecule”.
I’ve also read that fluoride interferes with the pineal gland http://www.fluoridealert.org/health/pineal/
In case anyone is interested, I actually just posted a recipe for a remineralizing toothpaste that I make (primal approved) this is safe for babies and those with thyroid problems. From my experience, it also helps whiten teeth and improve cold sensitivity. http://wellnessmama.com/2500/homemade-remineralizing-toothpaste-recipe/
Thank you for your link.
Been looking for a good toothpaste replacement for months but gve up looking.
This is a good one…xept I probably won’t use this weird sugar Xylo…
Fluoride is toxic to bacteria. It ruptures the cel membrane. So fewer cavaties makes sense. It destroys the bacteria that “eats” the sugar and carbo on yer teeth and thus cause tooth decay. It is toxic to humans too in highre concentrations. Nice stuff
Thank you Mark for this informative article.
People seem to have mixed opinions on the toxic waste product in our drinking water but as you said the diet is what’s important before even thinking about changing water or toothpaste.
If we all eat crap I don’t think it matters if you gulp toxic water down your throat on top of it.
I drink only steam distilled water when I’m thirsty…but I do take Azomite red clay mineral daily.
It says there are 900ppm of rock fluorine (F) in it on top of the other 76 or so minerals listed.
Also, don’t certain minerals render others neutral?
Like selenium does mercury, sulfur does arsenic, or something like that?
I wonder which element neutralizes fluorine.
I believe either boron or iodine displace fluoride.
Ok, REALLY have to disagree with you, Mark.
First off, I’m a little bit on the conspiracy theory side of the boat, but what’s the best way to get rid of waste?
Dump it in the water! It’s a waste product, riiight? The Nazis used fluoride on the Jewish people in WWII to make them more docile and easy to control. Then after the war ended, the United States were so interested in mind control that they took these scientists under their wing. The result? Domestic mind control experiments (MkUltra).
Ok, perfect. Waste turned into population controlling water additive! Now we just need to make them want it by saying if they don’t have it in their water, their teeth will fall out.
Since fluoride has been added to the water supply, the dental health in this country has seen a decrease. It’s the American way; layer one problem on top of another in a never ending game of Jenga. If people ate little sugar or carbs (I still agree with you on everything else)and brushed their teeth once in a while like they’re supposed to, we wouldn’t have tooth decay.
Also, our mouths are extremely good at absorbing chemicals. That fluoride on your toothpaste could go right though
the mucous membrane and into your blood stream.
From what I understand, the fluoride is only an element, not a mineral, so therefor, molecules from it are made. The mineral fluoride which occurs naturally isn’t soluble in water, while the chemical they put in our water, is.
Also, I’m not a big fan of the “A little is Ok, but a lot is bad” idea. Sounds like a Monsanto spokesman trying to sell me genetically engineered corn with synthetic herbicides sprayed all over it. If it’s bad, it’s bad. End of story.
When people grow hydroponically or in soil for that matter (I do both), water quality is of the utmost importance. That’s why I use a carbon filter, but I look forward to getting an RO soon. Also, all that chlorine can harm plants (and your gut’s microflora),too.
If we’re trying to live like our ancestors, why do we need this faulty chemical stew in our water? Grok drank from brooks, rivers and streams, not water from Britta filters after it’s been sent though miles and miles of PVC pipe (a toxic plastic causing hormone
problems, contributing to the hypothyroidism). Besides, if fluoride is for our teeth, why do we wash our laundry, cars, hands, pets, and selves with it? I’m sure it’s not good for local wildlife being flushed out with our city’s waste,either.
If I want my reverse osmosis or distilled water. I just take my glass gallon jugs down to my friendly neighbourhood Kroger and fill them up for 35 cents a pop. Frankly, I think finding pasture fed beef and free range eggs is MUCH harder. I know, I’ve been looking. And I live in Ohio.
Sorry to act so critical, I’m really a nice gal, but when I starting reading this it just made me so mad I thought I’d scream and pull my hair out.
Fluoride being good for you or not harmful is just another piece of CW we need to steer clear of. Remember, water is a BIG percentage of total body mass, choose your sources wisely.
“The Nazis used fluoride on the Jewish people in WWII to make them more docile and easy to control.”
Who told you that? What is your source? A random anti-fluoride website?
This is a bizarre anti-fluoridation conspiracy theory, nothing more. See
Peter Knight “Conspiracy theories in American history: an encyclopedia, Volume 1″ p264
Part of our history in school.
Like you guys cover civil war…we cover Hitler.
I went to school in Britain, and Nazi mind-control through fluoridation wasn’t in the syllabus.
Maybe it is secret history only taught in private schools?
Says the one who got Blitzkrieg’d…
“This is a bizarre anti-fluoridation conspiracy theory, nothing more”…Sounds like another sadistic elitist egotist.
Amen.
Looking into this, I suspect people may be confusing bromide with fluoride. Bromide was used as an anti-anxiety drug in the 1800s.
The history books in public schools change every few years. I haven’t seen many nutrition books telling the truth either. Don’t we rely on blogs and private write ups for our info anyways?
Flouride in our drinking water is not good period. However, I just had a though. What are the “evil” government people drinking? does obama not drink tap water? (in my case, Julie Gillard)
There are massive conspiracies regarding flouridation, chem trails and other things about killing of the population and making us dumber but what are the crazy NWO governemt politicians doing to protect themselves from these things? do they all drive down to the local natural spring to collect fresh spring water or wear hazmat suits when walking around in public?
They most likely don’t drink tap water, no.
I hear rumor they have their own organic gardens that their personal chefs personally prepare their meals. Except for George Bush, who likes bologna.
Ok, here is something I found quite interesting:
HARMFUL EFFECTS OF FLUORIDE Fluoride is used as an insecticide and a roach killer. Even at the level they use to fluoridate your public water supply, usually at the rate of about 1 part fluoride for every million parts of water (1 ppm) by weight, it causes severe problems. As little as one-tenth of an ounce of fluoride will cause death. It is more poisonous than lead and just slightly less poisonous than arsenic. No one will die from drinking one glass of fluoridated water, but it is the long term chronic effects of drinking fluoridated water that affects health. Dental fluorosis is one of the earlier signs of fluoride poisoning, appearing in mild cases as a chalky area on the tooth, and in more advanced cases, teeth become yellow brown or black and the tips break off. Fluoride in the drinking water leads to fluoride levels in tissues and organs which damage enzymes. This results in a wide range of chronic diseases. Fluoride weakens the immune system and may cause allergic type reactions including dermatitis, eczema and hives. It causes birth defects and genetic damage. Fluoride is likely to aggravate kidney disease, diabetes and hypothyroidism. The amount consumed in drinking water has been shown to lower thyroid activity in humans. It also causes the breakdown of collagen which results in wrinkling of the skin and the weakening of ligaments, tendons and muscles. There are a number of ways that fluoride can be administered. The most insidious way is through the drinking water. Some of you have it in your mouthwashes, or in your toothpaste, or you may take a fluoride supplement which is dispensed in pills or drops.
Fluoride Toxicity Cure:
Chapter ” ARE YOU PROTECTED FROM THE HAZARDS OF MODERN LIVING? ”
“A few years ago, I ( Ann Wigmore ) asked Dr. GH Earp Thomas of the Bloomfield Laboratories in High Bridge, New Jersey, to do an experiment for me. He placed a small amount of wheatgrass juice in a jar of regular tap water and he tested it for fluoride and other chemicals present in the water…
Both of us were surprised by the results!
He concluded, “Fluorine rapidly combines with calcium phosphate and other kinetic elements to lose its toxic properties, and harden teeth and bones. that is why fresh grass would act as a catalyst to speedily change the acid fluorine into a beneficial component with a positive reaction…
By using wheatgrass, which is comparatively rich in calcium phosphate, it would remove any free fluoric acid and change its negative charge to an alkaline calcium phosphate fluoride combination with a positive reaction”
I was amazed (Ann Wingmore )
not only did wheatgrass neutralize the toxic effect of fluorine but it converted it into an ally in maintaining healthy bones and teeth! I don’t recommend that you drink tap water, though; pure spring or purified water taste better and is much better for you. But if you cannot obtain spring or purified water, pour a little wheatgrass juice into regular tap water, and it will make it more healthful…”
………………………………
Raw dairy also has high amounts of calcium phosphatase.
That chapter is chemical gibberish. Ions in solution exist independently, adding more of one salt will not change the charge of the ions of other dissolved salts.
Based on that excerpt, you’d be wise not to believe anything else you read in that book.
Also, they conveniently use the word ‘Fluorine’ in the Wheatgrass section binding with calcium phosphate…
Fluorine isn’t what’s in the tap water, the garbage that makes up fluoride is something totally different.
You may be right.
“Raw dairy also has high amounts of calcium phosphatase.” <— don't know why I typed that…had a brain fart …sorry.
Here is the agenda behind Water Fluoridation:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=C7wvjypxGW0
Hi,
I thought I would throw in my experience with the subject of fluoridation here because I truly have a unique perspective on it.
I grew up in Newburgh NY, the 2nd town to ever get fluoridation. It was part of an experiment on fluoridation back in the 1940′s. The town of Newburgh got fluoridation, and the town of Kingston did not.
Of a greater note, my pediatric physician that I went to as a child was none other than Dr. Russell Scobie, the pioneer of fluoridation. The test was one of his many projects over his life to promote flouridation. Often he would comment on it. (The water plant in my hometown is named after him).
My connection to this doesn’t end here though. It was noted in the town records of Middletown (right up the street from Newburgh) that the Mayor conducted her own experiment. Former Middletown Mayor Gertrude Mokotoff supported fluoride in theory. She had even done her own little fluoride experiment. Her first two kids never took fluoride. When she had twins in 1955, she gave them fluoride supplements. The result? Her older children had lots of cavities. Her younger children had none. (from the records of the town).
It doesn’t stop there either. I met her son Charles (Chucky) Mokotoff when I was 8 years old at summer camp. I think the problem is that people don’t want it foisted upon them. They want a voice. Nothing wrong with that, as long as the voice is the voice of reason. Think about what they put in water for sanitation. Do you think that you could drink water from a public water supply if there weren’t chlorine in it? Would you like to try? I was in Egypt last December. I saw the difference. Trust me- you don’t want the untreated water. You don’t want to even be exposed to it.
Fluoride is not safe. It is a toxic waste product of the fertilizer and aluminum manufacturing industry. The most widely used fluoride that goes into your municipal tap water has traces of heavy metals, including lead, mercury and arsenic. The exact components we’re trying to remove from the water. Great info can be found at Fluoride Action Network (http://www.fluoridealert.org/). Also, this is a great interview with Chris Bryson, author of “The Fluoride Deception” http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7319752042352089988# And here is a stetement made by Dr. Hirzy at a US Senate Hearing back in 2000. Little has changed since then http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRLz4a7lDVM The addition of fluoride to drinking water is purely medicinal, and is in violation of our individual rights. What most people don’t realize is that they are also getting dosed with any processed food that requires water for manufacturing. Any of these products can also have fluoride. We are being vastly overdosed. Let them leave it in toothpaste and let people make their own decisions.
Mark,
it’s Mark !;-)
I must say that the biggest issue –and a very serious one– is the displacement of Iodine by fluoride.
My recommendation would be to steer clear of fluoride as much as possible and to actually supplement with Iodine (Lugol’s) instead!
Mark
This is such a frustrating discussion. The whole fluoride conspiracy thing is pretty tiresome. Mark’s post is right on. In the scheme of life, water fluoridation should rank pretty low.
Since so much commentary here relies on qualitative experiential data, I’ll say I credit fluoridation and conventional dental care to preventing any cavities until I was in my mid3ls with an incredibly poor diet….one that woukd put me in the top ten of a Primal Hall of Shame. I favor fluoridation until naughty carbs and processed foods are eliminated from the general population diet. If you don’t want to drink it, you can easily decrease your intake, but I think its time, worry, and money wasted for the most part.
Not enough alarmism here!!!
An industrial waste product added to our drinking water doesn’t seem like a good thing or a minor thing.
I am surprised no one here has mentioned the link between fluoride, aluminum and alzheimer’s. I’m too lazy to make the case here but it’s out there.
Europe does half the water fluoridation the U.S. does and suffers half the alzheimers.
I buy RO water at walmart. I think decades of fluoride ingestion combined with antacids and antiperspirants might be a big deal.
ALZHEIMER’S DISEASE AND FLUORIDE
Evidently Alzheimer’s Disease came along after people started using aluminum cookware. Isabel Jansen, R.N., wrote of a simple experiment regarding the use of aluminum pots, where it’s easily proven that the aluminum and the fluoride content in water, both increase dramatically.
Fluoridated water activates dormant aluminum
“In January 1987, experiments performed at the Medical Research Endocrinology Dept., Newcastle upon Tyne, England, and the Physics Dept of the Univ. of Ruhana, Sri Lanka, showed that fluoridated water at 1 ppm, when used in cooking in aluminum cookware, concentrated the aluminum up to 600 ppm, whereas water without fluoride did not. (Science news 131:73)
They suggested that because of the known fact that aluminum is neuro-toxic and is in abnormally high concentrations in the brain of Alzheimers and other neurological disease victims, including AIDS, that these findings raise questions about adding fluoride to the water supply of communities to reduce tooth decay….
Because of these findings, a test was made of Antigo, Wisconsin water which has been fluoridated for 33 years. The water was examined by a certified Wisconsin laboratory, and showed that when it was used in cooking in aluminum cookware, it concentrated the aluminum by 833 times and increased the fluoride content by 100%.
The maximum allowed aluminum content of water is set by the World Health Organization at 200 micrograms per liter. This makes Antigo water, when cooked in aluminum, 75 times over the maximum. No test was made of distilled water, as the Antigo Water Dept. does not dispense distilled water.
I have heard from certain sources that flouride has an estrogenic effect on humans, though I couldn’t pull a study out of my ass to prove that.
If that’s the case, it’s just one more thing contributing to the emasculation of young American boys.
If not, than let’s all build shit and blow it up!
A little late on this thread, but the excellent podcast How Stuff Works has an episode on fluoride. Goes into the controversy and why we started fluorinating our water in the first place.
I like the helpful information you provide in your articles. I’ll bookmark your blog and check again here regularly. I’m quite sure I will learn many new stuff right here! Good luck for the next!
As somebody suffering from fluoride poisoning, I feel it should be avoided at all costs, even by healthy people. I lost years of my life to severe Fibromyalgia only to discover the cause of Fibromyalgia is fluoride poisoning from the drug Cipro. (www.earthclinic.com for more info.) I have since begun a chelation program and my life is returning to normal. I recommend avoiding fluoridated drugs at very least (actually, all drugs). My family also tries to avoid all fluoridated water sources, as well. In fact, I can trace my more severe episodes of fibromyalgia to periods when my water sources changed. My experience is anecdotal but the research is out there. Save yourself the pain I experienced and avoid a toxic substance.