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	<title>Comments on: Dear Mark: Insurance and Alternative Therapies</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insurance-and-alternative-therapies/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insurance-and-alternative-therapies/</link>
	<description>Serving up health and fitness insights (daily, of course) with a side of irreverence.</description>
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		<title>By: Matt</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insurance-and-alternative-therapies/#comment-511248</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Feb 2010 16:03:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=9336#comment-511248</guid>
		<description>I completely agree with your statement. i only wish it were possible considering the way our Congress and big business are set up to only work together pushing commin sense out of the way for more profits.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I completely agree with your statement. i only wish it were possible considering the way our Congress and big business are set up to only work together pushing commin sense out of the way for more profits.</p>
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		<title>By: Cooper</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insurance-and-alternative-therapies/#comment-489080</link>
		<dc:creator>Cooper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Dec 2009 00:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=9336#comment-489080</guid>
		<description>Wow, I just came across this blog post. Not sure if anyone is still reading these posts but I have to come to the defence of Alchemyguy. Everyone who tried to counteract his arguments came up with nothing but personal testimony or friend&#039;s stories. Unfortunately, this is the reason we have science. There&#039;s no way for a person to determine what factor or combination of factors cured them.  Maybe the CAM worked, maybe it was the placebo effect, maybe it was purely a coincidence, maybe it was a hundred other possibilities.

Science at least tries to separate these from what really works.  Usually FDA approved rigorously clinically tested drugs don’t work for everyone but they do work for a high percentage of people over and above the placebo effect.
Of course, that’s not to say all CAM has been properly tested.  To warrant research, CAM therapies at least have to propose a mechanism by which they work.  Homeopathy has in fact been tested but the mechanism by which they propose it works is so ridiculous that I don’t think it should ever have gotten funding in the first place.

In my opinion, anyone who would choose 1 or 2 of the 1000’s of untested CAM therapies over the conventional methods is taking a huge risk.  How do you decide which one of the untested CAM therapies to go for?  If I were to suggest anything, I would say use the conventional approach and then pick the CAM therapy you believe in the most.  At least that way you’re likely to get the biggest effect.  I don’t see anything particularly wrong with taking advantage of the placebo effect but I would not forego conventional treatment for it.
And last but not least, just because science is the best tool we have doesn’t mean it’s not flawed.  There are a lot of bad interpretations of science out there and just because a doctor gives his opinion, doesn’t mean it’s scientific.  Doctor’s are humans and can just as easily misinterpret science.  This is a pretty good website to check out http://www.badscience.net.

Judging by the responses so far, I’m probably wasting my time.  It’s pretty difficult to convince a true believer.  If you’re new, please read the responses and you’ll see that nobody offered any constructive argument to counteract Alchemyguy.  I think I’ll head over to vegan.org now, lol.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, I just came across this blog post. Not sure if anyone is still reading these posts but I have to come to the defence of Alchemyguy. Everyone who tried to counteract his arguments came up with nothing but personal testimony or friend&#8217;s stories. Unfortunately, this is the reason we have science. There&#8217;s no way for a person to determine what factor or combination of factors cured them.  Maybe the CAM worked, maybe it was the placebo effect, maybe it was purely a coincidence, maybe it was a hundred other possibilities.</p>
<p>Science at least tries to separate these from what really works.  Usually FDA approved rigorously clinically tested drugs don’t work for everyone but they do work for a high percentage of people over and above the placebo effect.<br />
Of course, that’s not to say all CAM has been properly tested.  To warrant research, CAM therapies at least have to propose a mechanism by which they work.  Homeopathy has in fact been tested but the mechanism by which they propose it works is so ridiculous that I don’t think it should ever have gotten funding in the first place.</p>
<p>In my opinion, anyone who would choose 1 or 2 of the 1000’s of untested CAM therapies over the conventional methods is taking a huge risk.  How do you decide which one of the untested CAM therapies to go for?  If I were to suggest anything, I would say use the conventional approach and then pick the CAM therapy you believe in the most.  At least that way you’re likely to get the biggest effect.  I don’t see anything particularly wrong with taking advantage of the placebo effect but I would not forego conventional treatment for it.<br />
And last but not least, just because science is the best tool we have doesn’t mean it’s not flawed.  There are a lot of bad interpretations of science out there and just because a doctor gives his opinion, doesn’t mean it’s scientific.  Doctor’s are humans and can just as easily misinterpret science.  This is a pretty good website to check out <a href="http://www.badscience.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.badscience.net</a>.</p>
<p>Judging by the responses so far, I’m probably wasting my time.  It’s pretty difficult to convince a true believer.  If you’re new, please read the responses and you’ll see that nobody offered any constructive argument to counteract Alchemyguy.  I think I’ll head over to vegan.org now, lol.</p>
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		<title>By: paleo_piper</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insurance-and-alternative-therapies/#comment-480729</link>
		<dc:creator>paleo_piper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:47:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=9336#comment-480729</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t forget that on any herbal treatment or vitamin or anything CAM is a warning that says &quot;This product is not intended to diagnose, treat or cure any disease.&quot; Which is enough in itself to snuff that helpful placebo effect so you have no choice but to get that pharmaceutical.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t forget that on any herbal treatment or vitamin or anything CAM is a warning that says &#8220;This product is not intended to diagnose, treat or cure any disease.&#8221; Which is enough in itself to snuff that helpful placebo effect so you have no choice but to get that pharmaceutical.</p>
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		<title>By: paleo_piper</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insurance-and-alternative-therapies/#comment-480725</link>
		<dc:creator>paleo_piper</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Dec 2009 21:33:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=9336#comment-480725</guid>
		<description>Mike, I&#039;m a little late, but I wanted to add to what you said, that Ayurveda is a medical system 3000-5000 years old, and I&#039;m often told it&#039;s &quot;junk medicine&quot; from allopathic doctors and CWers all the time without realising the irony.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mike, I&#8217;m a little late, but I wanted to add to what you said, that Ayurveda is a medical system 3000-5000 years old, and I&#8217;m often told it&#8217;s &#8220;junk medicine&#8221; from allopathic doctors and CWers all the time without realising the irony.</p>
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		<title>By: Alchemyguy</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insurance-and-alternative-therapies/#comment-478969</link>
		<dc:creator>Alchemyguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 04:08:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=9336#comment-478969</guid>
		<description>Ahh, one more.  Nobody ever claims that medicine can&#039;t get better; doctors, nurses and administrators work constantly to make medicine safer because nobody likes losing a patient, especially if it was because you misdosed them or misdiagnosed them or whatever the case may be.  Just because &quot;Big Pharma&quot; is out to make money doesn&#039;t make medicine some kind of failure; it means the American for-profit system needs to be fixed, not thrown out and magical belief substituted.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ahh, one more.  Nobody ever claims that medicine can&#8217;t get better; doctors, nurses and administrators work constantly to make medicine safer because nobody likes losing a patient, especially if it was because you misdosed them or misdiagnosed them or whatever the case may be.  Just because &#8220;Big Pharma&#8221; is out to make money doesn&#8217;t make medicine some kind of failure; it means the American for-profit system needs to be fixed, not thrown out and magical belief substituted.</p>
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		<title>By: Alchemyguy</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insurance-and-alternative-therapies/#comment-478967</link>
		<dc:creator>Alchemyguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 04:02:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=9336#comment-478967</guid>
		<description>@Dr Steve:  Easy with the Ad Hominem there tiger; attempting to associate me with a roundly disliked figure doesn&#039;t do anything but muddy the waters.  Doesn&#039;t actually address the question, does it?

I skimmed your website, came to the conclusion that it looks a lot like chiropractic and went forward from there.  I suppose you could be some other kind of practicioner, but judging by your response I would say that I probably got it right.  The fact that you didn&#039;t actually address the point or offer an alternative to the options I presented and instead resorted to attacking me really says everything that needs to be.

On the ~225k deaths in the medical system; No, it doesn&#039;t even remotely call into question the *effectiveness* of conventional medicine, it demonstrates that there is *risk* involved.  And just because there is risk does not invalidate everything it does.  If you want a perfect world where everything goes 100% perfectly all the time, I have bad news for you.  I would also suggest, again, that over half of those deaths are...human error by practitioners of medicine.  No shocker there, people make mistakes all the time and if you expect your medical team to be superhuman, you&#039;re also in for a shocker.

One more on that topic; lets assume for a moment that those 225k deaths are unacceptable and we ban the practice of conventional medicine.  I wonder how many people would die each year then.  I bet you dollars to doughnuts (ha!) that it would be no comparison.

You&#039;re going to do better than personal attacks and drawing incorrect conclusions from fairly clear data, Dr Steve.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Dr Steve:  Easy with the Ad Hominem there tiger; attempting to associate me with a roundly disliked figure doesn&#8217;t do anything but muddy the waters.  Doesn&#8217;t actually address the question, does it?</p>
<p>I skimmed your website, came to the conclusion that it looks a lot like chiropractic and went forward from there.  I suppose you could be some other kind of practicioner, but judging by your response I would say that I probably got it right.  The fact that you didn&#8217;t actually address the point or offer an alternative to the options I presented and instead resorted to attacking me really says everything that needs to be.</p>
<p>On the ~225k deaths in the medical system; No, it doesn&#8217;t even remotely call into question the *effectiveness* of conventional medicine, it demonstrates that there is *risk* involved.  And just because there is risk does not invalidate everything it does.  If you want a perfect world where everything goes 100% perfectly all the time, I have bad news for you.  I would also suggest, again, that over half of those deaths are&#8230;human error by practitioners of medicine.  No shocker there, people make mistakes all the time and if you expect your medical team to be superhuman, you&#8217;re also in for a shocker.</p>
<p>One more on that topic; lets assume for a moment that those 225k deaths are unacceptable and we ban the practice of conventional medicine.  I wonder how many people would die each year then.  I bet you dollars to doughnuts (ha!) that it would be no comparison.</p>
<p>You&#8217;re going to do better than personal attacks and drawing incorrect conclusions from fairly clear data, Dr Steve.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr Steve</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insurance-and-alternative-therapies/#comment-478903</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr Steve</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Nov 2009 01:31:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=9336#comment-478903</guid>
		<description>OK Alchemyguy it appears that you know exactly what you are talking about. without asking me what I do, you have concluded that I am either a quack OR in the field of medicine. You must have been attending the George W school of rhetoric (You are either with us or against us!) 

BTW, 106,000 is the side effect of correctly prescribed drugs, not allergic reactions and the like. Also, 225,000 deaths makes medicine the fourth largest cause of mortality in the US. Which does not prove the effectiveness of CAM, but certainly comments on the ineffectiveness of allopathy.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK Alchemyguy it appears that you know exactly what you are talking about. without asking me what I do, you have concluded that I am either a quack OR in the field of medicine. You must have been attending the George W school of rhetoric (You are either with us or against us!) </p>
<p>BTW, 106,000 is the side effect of correctly prescribed drugs, not allergic reactions and the like. Also, 225,000 deaths makes medicine the fourth largest cause of mortality in the US. Which does not prove the effectiveness of CAM, but certainly comments on the ineffectiveness of allopathy.</p>
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		<title>By: brad</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insurance-and-alternative-therapies/#comment-478822</link>
		<dc:creator>brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 20:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=9336#comment-478822</guid>
		<description>Yes I too have my own personal pumpjack working in my back yard to fuel my super sized diesel 4x4.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes I too have my own personal pumpjack working in my back yard to fuel my super sized diesel 4&#215;4.</p>
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		<title>By: Alchemyguy</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insurance-and-alternative-therapies/#comment-478776</link>
		<dc:creator>Alchemyguy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:59:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=9336#comment-478776</guid>
		<description>@Brad:  A fellow Canuck!  I agree, our system has some significant problems, but on the whole it passes.  I know some Americans paint our system as some kind of horror-show that sucks the life from our pocketbooks.  It&#039;s true we pay more (take note, our southern cousins; Brad did say 60-70% of his provincial tax bill, not 70% of his income; that comes to something like $1200/year if he has a similar income as myself and lives in the Saudi Arabia of the north), but I don&#039;t have to worry about being financially ruined if something terribly strikes myself or my family.  I totally agree with you though; the quality of care is very good and there is always room for improvement.

I think we&#039;re way off topic here. :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Brad:  A fellow Canuck!  I agree, our system has some significant problems, but on the whole it passes.  I know some Americans paint our system as some kind of horror-show that sucks the life from our pocketbooks.  It&#8217;s true we pay more (take note, our southern cousins; Brad did say 60-70% of his provincial tax bill, not 70% of his income; that comes to something like $1200/year if he has a similar income as myself and lives in the Saudi Arabia of the north), but I don&#8217;t have to worry about being financially ruined if something terribly strikes myself or my family.  I totally agree with you though; the quality of care is very good and there is always room for improvement.</p>
<p>I think we&#8217;re way off topic here. <img src='http://www.marksdailyapple.com/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
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		<title>By: brad</title>
		<link>http://www.marksdailyapple.com/insurance-and-alternative-therapies/#comment-478772</link>
		<dc:creator>brad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Nov 2009 15:36:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marksdailyapple.com/?p=9336#comment-478772</guid>
		<description>Alchemyguy, I knew what you meant. I&#039;m not really mad at the system when it comes to my own care either because I take responsability for my own health and guide my own care. What frustrates me in Canada is my tax money goes to pay for all the bandaid treatments given to those who dont.

Just a caution to all you Yankee&#039;s down there 60-70% of my provincial taxes go to fund my state run healthcare.

Now care wise our system is pretty good, but there is much room for improvement. I&#039;m just saying don&#039;t look north for a guide to your healthcare reform.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alchemyguy, I knew what you meant. I&#8217;m not really mad at the system when it comes to my own care either because I take responsability for my own health and guide my own care. What frustrates me in Canada is my tax money goes to pay for all the bandaid treatments given to those who dont.</p>
<p>Just a caution to all you Yankee&#8217;s down there 60-70% of my provincial taxes go to fund my state run healthcare.</p>
<p>Now care wise our system is pretty good, but there is much room for improvement. I&#8217;m just saying don&#8217;t look north for a guide to your healthcare reform.</p>
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