Vaccines
(125 posts) (30 voices)-
Maleficarum
MemberMy wife and I have elected not to immunize our daughters by the use of vaccines. Too many recent horror stories that continue to raise our awareness of just how scary the medical establishment can be.
An example would be digging into the recent problems with the HPV vaccine that they advertise on television for young teen girls. This vaccine was never tested on humans on a large scale until it was released to the general public.
The recent plans to immunize hundreds of millions of people worldwide against H1N1 is also a concern. Roughly 35,000 people die each year in the United States from the flu (mostly the elderly). The powers-that-be are claiming that the "swine flu" will claim 90,000. To me, this is a depressing number, but I do not feel it justifies injecting millions and millions of people with a known cocktail of untested vaccine, mercury, thermisol, and squaline.
How would Grok respond to the idea of being injected with a virus in order to potentially increase his immune response to similar viruses in the future?
Posted 2 months ago # -
Grok's immune system would likely have been strengthened already by plenty of exposure to healthy bacteria (i.e., not constantly rinsing one's hands in alcoholic "sanitizer").
I think vaccines, like any medicine or procedure, should be geared to "first, do no harm", and that the aggressive scheduling insisted on by conventional wisdom is not only counterproductive but actively harmful to developing children.
I will not allow anyone to put anything into my body without my consent.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Maleficarum
MemberI agree frog. More and more studies are showing just how damaging it can be to a child's immune system to receive so many vaccines at one time. Especially infants.
My wife and I feel bad that we did not realize the danger sooner. We dutifully took our 2 year old to get all of her shots up until she was 12 months old. Our youngest has not had any shots. My wife had to argue with the pediatrician in the hospital only hours after giving birth to our second child to keep him from giving her shots.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Nick
MemberThere are many vaccines that have been in use for years on millions of people and are perfectly safe. Thimerosal/Thiomersal is being phased out. Don't know if you're an autism crazy or not, but if so: http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=vitamin-d-and-autism
I agree with you on the swine flu vaccine though, which is definitely dangerous:
http://blogs.mercola.com/sites/vitalvotes/archive/2009/08/18/Swine-Flu-Shot-Linked-to-Killer-Nerve-Disease.aspxHowever, if you're going to not get your kid measles, mumps, rubella, pertussis, tetanus, etc. vaccinations, I kinda wonder. They are still out there, and they do still kill people.
Regardless, please go read up on herd immunity (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herd_immunity), lest you unknowingly take an action that contributes to the tragedy of the commons.
Posted 2 months ago # -
OnTheBayou
Memberoh mi god........
Vaccinations have been one the biggest reasons our life expectancy has increased so much in the last 100 years.
For an occasional. statistically minuscule backfire, you are willing to risk your daughter's health? Did you and your wife benefit from vaccinations? Oh, that's right, you'll never know because they worked.
And if they ever travel overseas to many places, they'll have to get them anyway.
And yes, your kids can they be the vectors to other kids like themselves, or adults with lowered resistance. Please don't do us any favors.
Do you wear your seat belts? Sure, once in awhile someone survives because they were not buckled in, but the statistics are all in favor of buckling up.
Just like getting vaccinated.
I was a Polio Pioneer, one of Dr. Salk's human guinea pigs about 1953. I got the real thing, not the placebo. I had a friend back then who wasn't so fortunate, he got polio. Years later, I had an adult friend that had no use of her legs because Mom didn't believe in vaccinations. But Mom (this is Mexico) believed in prayer and marijuana rubs on daughter's immobile legs. A life ruined because of disbelief.
If your daughters are able to "run vaccine naked", it's only because of the 99% of us that are.
oh mi god.......
Posted 2 months ago # -
bcreager
MemberMy wife and I are going through the same thing right now with our 3 month old. So far, we haven't had to fight too much with the hospital or pediatrician. Thankfully Colorado has an exempt law so they you can still get them into school.
I've been doing as much research as I can and discovered two interesting thinks. First, no doctor can say they don't recommend vaccines, otherwise they will lose insurance providers, etc. After all, health care is all about $$$, not really about our health. Second, some interesting research that vaccines aren't really the reason we have less disease, better sanitation is.
Either way, after reading how many of these vaccines are produced, there is no way I'm going to inject my infant daughter with chicken embryos, trace amounts of mercury, and other various poisons used to culture and preserve vaccines.
I don't get vaccines, and thankfully my parents prevented me from getting many of them when I was young....so why would I risk my infants health!?!?!?
Besides, don't believe anything the gov't says is good for me, after all, look at the Food Pyramid!
-bcreager
Posted 2 months ago # -
I do not believe in the efficacy of prayer to cure or prevent sickness or injury, and if I or my (hypothetical) child were traveling overseas, I would not hesitate to have us vaccinated against the nastier stuff. But I hardly think it qualifies as 'autism craziness' to recognize that the aggressive vaccine schedule promoted by conventional wisdom does more harm than good to both the individual and to the human race as a whole.
Posted 2 months ago # -
I'm a mom of 4 and even though I've been an "alternative" mom (extended breastfeeding, family bed, homeschooling, etc.) I would never dream of not vaccinating my children. There are scary diseases like whooping cough and measles making a comeback because people aren't vaccinating. It's not just a matter of the health of your own children (and I have never known a single child that was harmed in any way by a vaccine) it's a matter of the health of the entire population.
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I feel really strongly about this. I recently went to a Holistic Moms Network meeting and I was practically the only one in the room who had vaccinated her kids! I was shocked. The only reason we don't have huge epidemics of infectious diseases in this day and age is because of the advent of vaccines. I really fear that if this non-vaccinating thing catches on, a lot of people (kids!) will die.
Posted 2 months ago # -
OnTheBayou
Member"Either way, after reading how many of these vaccines are produced, there is no way I'm going to inject my infant daughter with chicken embryos, trace amounts of mercury, and other various poisons used to culture and preserve vaccines."
While I'm not up to speed 100% on the mercury as a cause of autism issue, I don't think that's gone anywhere after many, many studies. And the amount in the vaccine will pale compared to what will be picked up later in life.
Thank god for all the scientists who make all those horrible vaccines using - gasp! - chicken embryos and other unholy sacraments. Come on!
As the great politician and observer of human nature Patrick Moynihan said, "You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to your own facts." So many of my incredulous responses to posting here on MDA fall into that category.
And, my fellow traveler, what will your therapeutic response be when a child of yours gets any of the diseases that the vaccinations prevent? Who will you believe then? And if they don't come down with something, you can thank all the millions and millions of people who have hadcthe vaccines, making your children's world a safer place.
Thank you, Dr. Salk! At least I didn't get polio, the scourge of summer, unlike my friend.
Posted 2 months ago # -
bcreager
MemberI'm not worried about autism from mercury, and there are only trace amounts in most of today's vaccines, but it doesn't change the fact that its a poison, along with all the other "crap" they put in them to preserve them.
http://www.whale.to/vaccines/ingredients1.html
I'm all for doing experiments and studies on chick embryo, monkey kidney cells, calf serums, human fetal cells....heck, I'm all for stem cell research on the whole, I think its a HUGE benefit, and gives our scientific community safer (rather then use live people or animals) to test all kinds of stuff. But it still doesn't mean I want to inject it in my body.
If my daughter gets an illness or disease there is a vaccine for, I'll be ok with that. I'm taking a risk by not vaccinating her, but it is a risk I am willing to take. I've weight the pros and cons, and made my decision. But, even if she got the vaccine, she could still get the illness or disease.
If she never gets one of these diseases or illness, I'm not going to thank the millions that get vaccinate, I'm going to thanks a health immune system, a good nutritious diet, and good luck.
-bcreager
Posted 2 months ago # -
I am not vaccinated, nor are my children.
For those of you who are 'all for it', you REALLY need to do more reading up on it.
It's not all you think it is. More CW propaganda, mostly.
Posted 2 months ago # -
OnTheBayou
Memberbcreager, be sure to not buckle them up in the car. And you'll be OK when one is paralyzed for life because of polio? "Daddy, why wouldn't you let me have that vaccine?" OK, with that?
And yes, you damned well better thank the millions of people running around vaccinated. Your kids are far less likely to catch a preventable disease because there is far less of it out there......because of vaccines.
I DON'T need to read "up on it." As I said, just because there is the occasional backfire from perfection, doesn't mean you should throw the baby out with the vaccine.
If this was one hundred years ago and someone said, "I have a medicine that will prevent (long list of horrible diseases and death) in your children, but the downside is a 1 in a few thousand chances of something going wrong," would you not take that chance? Well, interestingly, the people who knew the diseases, and lived (and died) with the diseases were damned appreciative of vaccines. Now with a lot of that just being in the history books, some people forget.
Just unfrickin' believable.
Serial, the problem here is that the parents are choosing to remove their kids, not their own genes. This is only a step removed from parents that for religious reasons don't seek medical help and their kids die, no matter how fervent the prayer. If an adult wants to make a an equivalent decision, fine, one is just being stupid. But to do so for your kids based on crapola fear mongering of the highly unlikely should be criminal.
Posted 2 months ago # -
OTB, you are being way out of line with your accusations of 'stupidity'. Almost ignorant, actually.
Posted 2 months ago # -
PrimalJewishAmericanPrincess
Member"I'm not worried about autism from mercury, and there are only trace amounts in most of today's vaccines, but it doesn't change the fact that its a poison, along with all the other "crap" they put in them to preserve them."
Shit, I hope you never allow your kids to eat fish. Studies now show that 100% of fish has mercury. Best forget about lotions, too. Oh yeah, hope your kid doesn't want to wear deodorant.
This reminds of the thread about the dude didn't want to take antibiotics even though he was diagnosed with parasites; 'cause it wasn't "grok" enough. I thought this way of living was all about being as healthy as possible, not just to play who can be the best BC era caveman.
Posted 2 months ago # -
I can understand that this issue will polarise people. For what it's worth, I do think that people have forgotten that measles KILLS, polio KILLS or CRIPPLES, etc etc. I also know that herd immunity is key. I heard a couple of years ago that certain areas of London were borderline for measles because not enough children were vaccinated for various reasons. Guess what, measles made a comeback.
However I do agree it is wise to read up EXACTLY what is going into your bloodstream! I do feel uneasy about the sheer volume of early vaccinations - perhaps there is a way to spread them out more?
Having said that, a newborn baby has to cope with an entire planet full of bugs and germs so their immune system can't be as fragile as it seems.It also depends on environment - if you're out in the middle of nowhere, then good luck to you. If you're in a crowded urban centre, then I'd urge you to reconsider - more people for your kids to catch things from, but also a higher chance of them passing something else on to vulnerable groups. Are you going to give every woman you meet a pregnancy test? I mean, your family might be carrying rubella.... Not trying to be confrontational, just thought provoking (I hope!).
Posted 2 months ago # -
bcreager
MemberNot sure what seat belts have to do with vaccines. I'm guessing that you are making the connection between the "safety" of children. I do buckle my child seat in, and I use the seat belt myself...but it sounds like again your just spewing CW to me.
Seat belts is a great example of CW and gov't propaganda. If seat belts were SO important for the safety of our society, then why aren't there any seat belts on city buses, or even school buses...OH MY GOSH, think of the children's safety!!!!!
And if it was really about safety, why is it illegal for me to wear a helmet, while driving a car? Why are there not requirements that all passengers have shoulder and lap belts?
So again I wonder, what do seat belts have to do with vaccines. I can wear a seat belt without having any foreign material enter my body. I can wear a seat belt and not have to worry whether I allergic to yeast. I can wear a seat belt and not hope that the seat belt was manufactured in dirty lab and contaminated. Overall, I'd say a seat belt is pretty darn safe.
This is far more then a single step removed from religious dogma preventing medical aid. Just because someone chooses not to have vaccines, doesn't mean they reject medicine as a whole. That would be similar to saying "the news is to graphic and I don't agree with it, therefore I will never watch TV again". Don't throw the baby out with the bath water as the saying goes.
I have yet to see any evidence to support your position in your posts, rather, just ranting and raving about how stupid and naive I am, and restating CW.
-bcreager
Posted 2 months ago # -
bcreager
MemberPrimalJewishA:
Just because there are poisons in our everyday world, doesn't mean I should go ahead and eat it because it ok! Additionally, I don't reject medicine as a whole, but I will not be injecting my infant child with various poisons because "there's a chance it will stop her from catching this disease/illness!".
For me, this has nothing to do with being Grok! I was this way long before I started reading and learning about the Paleo lifestyle. If she gets some infection or other ailment that can be cured with antibiotics or other drugs, of course she will be treated. But treatment and prevention are two very different things.
-bcreager
Posted 2 months ago # -
Maleficarum
Memberinteresting responses. I suppose i am a "bad" parent because i am questioning the medical establishment's reliance on the pharmaceutical industry to solve all of our medical problems. Funny, because i thought that questioning Big Pharma was one of the key ingredients behind Going Primal.
I worry about my kids. I do not want anything bad to happen to them. I understand the risk involved in not vaccinating them. I also understand the risks involved in giving them vaccinations. I do not feel like i am a religious zealot who abhors medical care. I feel like my wife and i are making an informed decision based on current evidence.
If my child broke a limb... i would not pray for them to get better. I would take them to the emergency room for a cast. Purposely exposing a child's underdeveloped immune system to unknown substances, toxic substances, and live viruses does not sound like a preventive measure. It sounds barbaric.
I understand the concept of Herd Immunity. I suppose i can be an ass and say i appreciate the "sacrifice" your children are making to keep mine healthy. But, i do not feel this is the case. Every article i read about the fears people feel in non-vaccinated children interacting with vaccinated children focuses on the risk-transmission factor. This says that people are not as comfortable with the reliability of vaccinations in the first place. If they were... they would not worry about my child transmitting any diseases to their vaccinated child.
I say we should all wait until the age of majority to decide who should and should not be vaccinated. Yes, this puts infants and children at risk. Our infant mortality rate is already the worst among first world countries, yet we spend almost 30x more for maternity care.
Posted 2 months ago # -
chocolatechip69
MemberWhen I was born 24 years ago, I was so weak and sick all the time that the doctors didn't think I was going to make it pass couple of weeks. They shot me with any imaginable vaccine and drug trying to bring me back to life which caused me to have violent allergic reaction to any routine vaccines required for children at that time.
I didn't get any vaccines since I was 1 yr old and I had a very hard time in kindergarten and public school because of that. That said, I never gotten any of the diseases the vaccines were suppose to protect from. Matter of fact, I never gotten as much as a cold when I was a kid. My mom was pretty serious about throwing me outside barefoot in a t-shirt in 2 feet of snow so I could develop my immune system and build it without the need for vaccines.My older sister has 2 children who are ages 12 and 5. Neither one of them was ever vaccinated and both are very healthy.
By the way...an argument about "wearing seatbelts" vs. getting vaccines is irrelevant here, unless you argue that people get in car accidents because they are BAD drivers. If so, then yes, buckling up will greatly reduce the risk of getting injured during a car accident. However, if a child has a strong immune system naturally, he might very well be resistant to many diseases that people with weakened immune system are prone to getting.
Posted 2 months ago # -
PrimalJewishAmericanPrincess
MemberThe site recommendation: http://www.whale.to/vaccines/ingredients1.html
is outlandish. This site also claims that AIDS is a harmless virus, rape is justified because it gives men power that the patriarchal society needs, and a personal favorite, the holocaust was a hoax. So, sorry if I can't trust that site. Oh yeah, the site also sells homemade bombs and hand grenades. At the cost of slicing holes in your cheese, I am probably now on a government watch list.
Posted 2 months ago # -
Personally,
I'm OK with taking a risk by getting vaccinated against seriously potentially life threatening, and/or crippling diseases.
I'm not really into all the flu vaccinations, or HPV, etc.
But when I traveled to Asia, and Europe, I did get my vaccines. And a lot of em.
If/when I have kids, I'll be picky about the vaccines they do get, but I'm planning on vaccinating them.
That being said, I am a bit weary of vaccines, and I don't understand why they have to be contaminated with a bunch of extra junk. (And I do understand why people may choose not to vaccinate, and I respect their viewpoints.)
Here's a blog post by a guy I respect a lot.
He has a quick personal account of his experience with a tetanus shot. (With an extra "0.28 mg of aluminum, up to 0.3 micrograms of mercury, and up to 100 micrograms of "residual formaldehyde")
http://wholehealthsource.blogspot.com/2008/05/vaccines.html
Gotta weigh the risks...
-SeanPosted 2 months ago # -
maba
MemberI don't have kids but I've often wondered about vaccination and how they may affect some children adversely.
Here's an article from WAPF that might give you a better picture:
http://www.westonaprice.org/children/vaccinations.htmlPosted 2 months ago # -
bcreager
MemberPerhaps a government sponsored website would be better...though some could argue gov't isn't much better then Whale:
http://www.cdc.gov/vaccines/pubs/pinkbook/downloads/appendices/B/excipient-table-2.pdf
Similar data
-bcreager
Posted 2 months ago # -
bcreager
Memberchocolatechip6: There is some STUNNING information out there about the holocast. Like you said, not so much the way this site puts it, but there are sites out there that go into great detail about it. Fascinating stuff to say the least, and makes you say hmmmmmmmmmm
-bcreager
Posted 2 months ago #
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