The people you love to hate
(46 posts) (26 voices)-
jdl409
MemberI'm thoroughly convinced that eating primal is great for me. I look good - I feel good.
But there's this little part of me that gets super irritated/jealous of the two girls in my office who load up on Starbucks, Diet Coke, Gummy Bears and tofu burgers and yet manage to stay super slim. Is there a PB explanation for these types?Posted 9 months ago # -
timconradinc
MemberAre they young? It's just insulin doing it's thing keeping the sugar down.
It's also possible that that's all they eat, as well. I've known women like that - it'd appear that they ate whatever they want, until looking closer, and that was *all* they were eating.
Posted 9 months ago # -
I'm going to assume that the Starbucks and gummi bear eaters are pretty young since you refer to them as girls. While it doesn't make it any less irritating to watch at the time, in five or ten years their bodies will inevitably begin to reflect their poor diet choices. Your good nutrition and lifestyle choices, however, will also show through. (I'm not saying that they don't already, just reiterating that the effects are even more evident as you get older and don't show as many signs of aging.) All the make-up and anti-aging wonder creams in the world can't fix the effects of years of subsisting on Diet Coke and tofu.
But, yes, I agree it is incredibly frustrating sometimes to watch someone pollute their body and still look fabulous. I just try to keep in mind that it is temporary.
Posted 9 months ago # -
SerialSinner
MemberI think it's a two way hate cycle. Many people wonder how can I be in reasonable shape while eating so much meat and fat, and without working out that much. I know this also results in them hating me.
jdl409 you should walk around the office with nuts and bacon snacks.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Tarlach
MemberThe people I love to hate are those who say they eat paleo, but still eat legumes/honey/stevia/agave/butter/ghee/cheese/tomato/chili/tubers/olive oil/salt/soy sauce/peas/sweet potato/mayonnaise/paprika/cayenne pepper/flaxseed/protein powder/tomato pasta sauce/capsicum/maple syrup/arrowroot/millet flour/goats cheese/raw milk/kefir/vinegar/probiotics/multivitamins or anything else they try to say is paleo, but Grok never ate. They are also the ones who complain the most about cravings/no weight loss/boring food/or whatever else.
I love the fact that they are trying, but am really annoyed that they will try to justify any old thing as paleo just because they want to eat it. If you want to do it, suck it up and do it properly.
Now before anyone takes that all personally - I did say paleo and not primal, as I am aware that Mark allows most of this stuff in moderation.
As a paleo eater - I won't eat any of it.
Posted 9 months ago # -
erik.cisler
MemberHoney? Salt? Why don't you think Paleolithic man ate either of these?
Honey's obvious. Sure, it woulda meant a few dozen bee stings, but it was definitely available. Bees aren't a recent development.
Salt too. Animals use natural salt licks; macaques season their food with salt water. I imagine Grok would have caught on, too, especially coastal Grok. That white flaky stuff would be tempting - especially if he witnessed animals sampling it.
Tubers and sweet potatoes, if found, would certainly be worth the trouble to cook and eat. 8000 year old wild varieties have been found in South America. It's not like they were staples, but that's the point of modern moderation.
I hope you're not taking fish oil and Vitamins D or K2, because Grok definitely wasn't. Just make sure to eat plenty of organs and get lots of sunlight.
I don't mean to come off as rude or anything; I just think you might be missing out on a few foods that were arguably on Grok's menu.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Tarlach, who do you hate more: people who do absolutely nothing to improve their health and well-being, or people who make an effort yet fall short of some supreme paleo ideal?
The best piece of advice that I have taken away from Mark's blog is to not let perfect be the enemy of good.
Is it better to not even attempt to properly nourish one's body unless one sucks it up and does it "properly"?
Maybe for some people going paleo or primal is just some great feat for which one gains the right to wield the paleo or primal label. Personally, I couldn't care less about labels; I am more concerned with finding my own personal balance.
I'll take my tomatoes covered in olive oil and go sit in the corner.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Tarlach
MemberI hate more - the people that won't try.
But why not aim for perfect?
That's like giving up cigarettes 80% of the time??? Just smoking on the weekend won't give you the benefit of quitting properly.
If you knew something is bad for you, then why not give it up?
'I'll just have a little bit and it won't hurt me as much' is a silly idea.Mark's philosophy works fine for those that can't commit to 100% paleo. They won't ever experience the same benefits, but it's entirely up to the individual to decide what to put in their body.
Posted 9 months ago # -
trinity4
MemberI understand envy at times, wishing I could eat anything I want and not have to worry about my weight or health. But I am thankful that I do have to worry, because while I am learning to nourish myself I am growing as a person and finding new ways to be in the world. I assume that everyone is doing the best that they can with the information they have been given, and when you know better hopefully you will do better. I am learning how all the sugar and crap I used to eat was a mere symptom of my underlying issues around attachment and abandonment, an attempt to fill up an empty well. I am thankful for the opportunity to dig myself out of that hole, and grow in the process. Whether a person is fat or thin, or in between,I try to have compassion for where they are. I don't know a single person who is not envolved in some personal struggle in some facet of their life.
I also try to remember that while I am obsessing over all my choices, there is someone in the world with no choices, who would give anything for the food that I turn my nose up at just so they can eat at all.
Sorry for sounding preachy, we all just sometimes need to remember how fortunate we all are.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Daughter of Grok
MemberTarlach-What's wrong with tomatoes, paprika and cayenne peppers besides the fact that "Grok" didn't eat them? Do they actually f-up your insulin levels? Is there a scientific basis for not eating them? If there is a good case for not eating these (the three on your list that I currently do not avoid)I will cease immediately but as of now I am hard pressed to think of a reason.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Tarlach
MemberNightshades are not considered Paleolithic as they are a 'new age' food only being available to humans in relatively resent years (not during Paleolithic times). They are also known to cause or irritate many arthritic conditions, which is another indicator that humans have not properly evolved to eat them.
The Solanaceae (nightshade) family includes potatoes, tomatoes, eggplant and some scary members like Datura or Jimson weed, mandrake and deadly nightshade
Solanaceae species are often rich in alkaloids whose toxicity to humans and animals ranges from mildly irritating to fatal in small quantities.
We have also verified from personal experience that nightshades cause joint pains. Sorry, but I'm not testing long term to see if they cause arthritis too...
http://www.fitnessspotlight.com/2008/1/6/nightshades/
more here:
http://cavemanforum.com/index.php?topic=947.0
http://www.archure.net/salus/nightshade.htmlPosted 9 months ago # -
Riceball
Memberumm....
just because they can eat sugar and doesn't gain weight..doesn't mean it's good for them.
in fact, many people have the body to handle that much junk or carbs without showing problems on their figures.
but the hidden risk of harming their health is so high, that they don't make me feel jealoused at all!they could be eating at "moderation" and just use the caloric deficit to keep their body looking fit, or heck, some people could just eat endless junks without getting big at all.
but what about the internal inflammation they might have? and what about the accumuated stress they're putting on their pancreas and the accumulated harm they're creating to their insullin response?
sure, a few lucky people could get away with that too, but who's going to be able to find out if they'll live even healthier or longer if they don't eat those crap?looking thin doesn't mean they're healthy... and as good as they look now, who knows what they'll be looking like in the future? all those thin friends of mine who drink so much beer all the time doesn't mean they'll stay thin, just look at their parents.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Oh boy, I just love the "Grokier-than-thou" attitude.
Sure, we could sit around and eat raw meat and leaves, but who wants to live like that? I mean, if you're REALLY going Paleo, it's all raw too, right?*rolls eyes*
I don't hate anybody, but I do pity those who just don't get it. I hate seeing my family pig out on sweets, and pile on the potatoes, but that's because I know how bad it is for them.
Posted 9 months ago # -
@Tarlach.........our ancient ancestors didnt drive cars, live in houses, shower regularly, go to markets, farmers or otherwise or have a refrigerator to cool food or a stove barbie to cook on......so where exactly as a modern human do you draw the line?
We all have our hypocrisies in some form. I am reminded of the book chocolat, where the austere priest ends by doing a face plant in pile of chocolate.
.......*roll eyes*
Posted 9 months ago # -
Curiousfarmer
MemberHeard an interesting piece on NPR yesterday while I was mowing hay. Almost all foods are genetically modified in the sense that most of the foods we eat have been selected and bred for specific traits.
Grok wouldn't even recognize most of the plants we eat.
I just realized we have gotten way off topic. I'll continue. In Malcolm Gladwell's book, "Blink," he talks about a sure sign a couple won't stay together, contempt.
Is a smile included with all of the "eye rolling?" I'm smiling.Posted 9 months ago # -
prairiegirl
MemberBEing thin and eating like crap is just another way malnutrition manifests . . . .some people get fat, others get very thin. My brother and I are polar opposites . .. the worse he eats the skinnier he gets. I am the opposite.
Tarlach, Mark certainly doesn't eat the way you describe and I would say he has gotten pretty fantastic results despite your statement that no one who eats like that will get results as good as you ;).
Posted 9 months ago # -
Tarlach
MemberTarlach, Mark certainly doesn't eat the way you describe and I would say he has gotten pretty fantastic results despite your statement that no one who eats like that will get results as good as you ;).
My point was that someone who commit 100% will get better results than if they commit 80%, not that 80% is of little value.
80% will get you as good as Mark has done and that is better than 95% of the population is experiencing.
Posted 9 months ago # -
musajen
Memberdalvarez - I'll wait for the documentary, it's due out shortly. :)
What I hate is the weight watchers points system. It turns usually intelligent people (mostly women) into fat and protein haters.
What can possibly be good about choosing a weight watcher 2 pt snack bar (i.e. sugar) over nuts and berries or an avocado.
I'm surrounded by this at work and have to really hold my tongue when someone passes up the meat and cheease tray and reaches for the high-fiber crackers instead because it's "fewer points."
Doh!
Posted 9 months ago # -
SerialSinner
MemberI agree with Tarlach on that any consistent deviation from a primal diet could perfectly be the cause of chronic illnesses. Research seems to confirm this more and more. So at the end it depends on how much of a "health-nut" one really is.
To me, it's like buying a home theater sound system. It's cheap to go from a crappy to a decent one, it's expensive to go from a decent to a premium one, and it's extremely expensive to go from a premium one to the state-of-the-art.
Sometimes it's not worth to pay for upgrades we won't notice or at the cost of living in a shack. The question is where do we stop upgrading.
Tarlach have you found any peer-reviewed papers mentioning nightshades as a probable *cause* for arthritis? I am starting to worry.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Tarlach
MemberNothing at hand, mostly just anecdotal evidence from people who have stopped eating them.
Once I found that nightshades were new age foods,I stopped eating them and didn't spend a lot of time researching more.
I would be interested if anyone did find some scientific evidence (either way) though...
Posted 9 months ago # -
Nick
MemberHere's a study looking at the effects of solanine on intestinal epithelial cells:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17973450
Many nightshades contain solanine, particularly the deadly ones, but also potatoes and tomatoes. The above study may tell you why traditional Chinese medicine uses solanine-containing extract to treat digestive cancers. In fact, it's effective against many types of cancer cell:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16029012
Over in the Netherlands, where they aren't quite so beholden to any agricultural interests (except tulips and weed), we get studies like this one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15649828
For those of you not up on your poisons and toxicity, acetylcholinesterase inhibition is the same effect you get from organophosphate nerve gases like VX and Serin, and pesticides like diazinon. We also get one of our antidotes, atropine, from the nightshades, incidentally.
It's also kind of shocking how little the multiple is between the amount of solanine normally consumed and what's required for a toxic dose:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19286450
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18614268
Frying green tomatoes, for instance, only reduces solanine by about 50%, so you if you eat a couple of pounds of fried green tomatoes, you could die, or at least do some serious damage to your gut.That solanine kills cancer cells is all well and good, and if I ever have cancer maybe I'll look into it as a form of chemo (Vitamin D is probably a better idea). However, if you note in the study it also killed plenty of non-cancerous cells, and the other studies in epithelial cells tell us it messes around significantly with Bcl2-family pro-apoptotic proteins, and therefore the same capability to nuke colon cancer may mean it kills a healthy person's intestinal lining in some proportion. Once absorbed into the bloodstream, it will probably also do the same thing to any tissue it comes in contact with.
I don't want to give up my tomatoes and hot peppers as much as anyone, but Tarlach's definitely not just crying wolf about nightshades.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Primalchild
MemberJust to play Devil's Advocate, what if hating isn't primal? In my imagination, back in Grok's day, we all had to live and work harmoniously in our own little bands or die. Outside stresses like a rival band or predatory animals or harsh weather were clear-cut and could be dealt with directly one way or another. I think we humans begin to "hate" when we can't effectively deal with sources of stress, like loud neighbors or annoying bosses or jobs we'd much rather not be doing.
Posted 9 months ago # -
ahhgrr
Member@Primalchild, having trained as a historian (a zillion years ago), I can pretty confidently say that hate, dislike, etc., all seems to be pretty well ingrained in human society from time immemorial.
Animals don't all get along, why should we?
That said, I try not to "hate" people so much, as that in itself raises stress levels. I do get annoyed with a vast number of things, though.
And re: nightshades -- I've seen a lot of the anti-nightshade stuff as well, and find it all rather depressing since I love tomatoes and peppers. My path is to not eat them quite as often as I'd like at the moment.
Posted 9 months ago # -
Daniel Doiron
MemberComment on original post:
'' I'm thoroughly convinced that eating primal is great for me. I look good - I feel good.
But there's this little part of me that gets super irritated/jealous of the two girls in my office who load up on Starbucks, Diet Coke, Gummy Bears and tofu burgers and yet manage to stay super slim. Is there a PB explanation for these types? ''I am sure if you would take a nice big 'pinch' of those triceps (if female) or belly (if male), you will soon find that they are not SLIM, but SMALL ... VERY IMPORTANT DIFFERENCE HERE!
Take out the muscle, add a little fat...you've still got a 'small' person, but not slim !!Posted 9 months ago #
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