Raw Milk
(48 posts) (21 voices)-
Jedi
MemberI realise this isn't completely primal but here in France raw milk is illegal. This week I was in the mountains with some kids form our school an we did some work for a cow shepherd and we bought some great raw cheese from him. I asked f he could sell me some milk and actually I had to sneak down to the cowshed early in the morning with a bottle hidden from view to get it, it was delicious.
just interested if it is illegal in your country too?
Posted 8 months ago # -
It is illegal in some of the states. I live in Ohio, so its illegal here. What I do is buy a portion of the herd, a herd share. That way, when I get my raw milk I am recieving milk from my share, and simply pay for upkeep. Raw jersey cow milk is SOOOO GOOD! Have you had raw goat milk? Totally different that store bought.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Ecala
MemberI think if you boil it, it will defeat the purpose. The benefits of raw milk are the enzymes which are destroyed when heated (which is what happens with pasteurization).
From what I understand, E. coli occurs more often with pasteurized products!
Maranne, as long as the farmer is safely handling the milk and using sterile equipment, you should have no problem consuming raw milk.
I go right to the farmer to purchase raw milk (legal to buy where I live in Massachusetts, but only at certified farms). I've never had any problem- and have NEVER gotten sick from it.
Posted 8 months ago # -
tallguy
MemberAs a child growing up in the country, we had, every single day 'green top' which is raw unpasturised milk, the top 4" of the bottle was cream, nectar me thinks !!
Jedi - I see you live in Nice, you are sooooooooo lucky the Cote D'Azur is my favourite holiday destination, every year wow. My wife and I and 2 boys will be down in Cannes in 4 weeks time, away from the ratrace, living an enviable life for 2 weeks !! Antibes, Juan Le Pins, Port Grimaud, Nice, Monaco, Grasse, Mougins here we come !!!Posted 8 months ago # -
Jedi
MemberHi Tallguy, I am indeed lucky, and count my blessings everyday... mild climate, shorts for 6-8 months of the year, mountains and hiking/skiing/snowshoeing 1.5-2 hrs away, Mediterranean, Italy half an hour away, Med. cuisine... I could go on :) where did you grow up?
Posted 8 months ago # -
natalienw
MemberI just found milk at Whole Foods that is un-homogenized..what exactly does that mean? And it states that they only heat it to 180 deg. When you first open it there is a nice cream layer on top and it smells so good. I was surprised to find that at Whole Foods, and reasonably priced with a glass bottle refund if you return it to the store.
Posted 8 months ago # -
tallguy
MemberJedi, I grew up in Derbyshire, our milk came straight from the farm.
One of the many things I love about the South of France is just putting my shorts on every single day knowing that when i look out of the window there's a 95% chance i will have chosen correctly !! Isola is quite near for skiing isn't it ?? So are you a native or a settler ?? So do you think mergeze would be classed as primal ?!?! This is first year i will be going down with my primal head on rather than my carb gourging one, so I will have to look out for all the primal fare in Geant/Carrefour. Any recommendations ??Posted 8 months ago # -
Jedi
MemberI am a settler, been here 10 years, have lived/worked in/visited nearly 50 countries but very glad to have rooted myself here. Yes Isola is 2 hrs away :)
..
I think Merguez from a local butcher would be more primal than from Carrefour/Géant... and local butchers are not necessarily more expensive here..... I personally would go for a lot of fresh fish while you are down here and hit the markets daily...sorry to derail the thread a little :)
Posted 8 months ago # -
Jedi: you are living the dream! HOW are you able to travel that much? Awesome.
Regarding pastuerization, I agree with Ecala. The good stuff is killed during the process. Ive been raw milking it for about 4 months, no problems, and it TASTES SO much better!
Posted 8 months ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberIsn't a cow shepherd sort of like a sheep cowboy or something? Oxymoron! Ha ha.
I think raw milk is another off the scale health food issue. So what if a few enzymes or whatever get kiboshed? Does our health decline because we don't get them? We don't even need milk, it's mammalian baby food. Grok probably never knew it's taste except for maybe from those big mammoth teats! Ha ha.
The benefits of pasteurization FAR outweigh the negatives. Far more people have been saved from diseases from it than health issues due to lost enzymes.
Homogenized, natalienw, only means that the cream and skim milk are combined so that they don't separate. Wikipedia says this: "Milk homogenization is accomplished by forcing the milk at high pressure through small holes. Yet another method of homogenization uses extruders, hammermills, or colloid mills to mill (grind) solids. Controversy exists as to the health risks of consuming homogenized dairy products, specifically as regards the circulatory system.[citation needed]"
Posted 8 months ago # -
musajen
MemberBayou - my understanding is that pasteurization kills off all the enzymes in milk, enzymes our body needs to properly digest it. Without those enzymes the body does not digest and absorb the nutrients properly. Plus, when those enzymes die, they don't go anywhere - they become a sort of pollutant in the milk and cause allergic reactions in a lot of people.
I've also read that pasteurization was absolutely necessary when urban areas started sprouting in the U.S. in those early days. The dairy's situated around, say New York, to provide daily milk to it's inhabitants were absolutely filthy. Cows were packed in, dirty, and diseased and the milk was frequently contaminated with puss and fun little diseases. This is often still the case with massive dairy operations. Buying raw milk off the local farm usually yields healthier, cleaner cows and a much lower risk of disease.
Plus, have you ever tasted raw milk? I haven't tasted it myself, but I buy as close to raw as I can since I can't find a local provider. I buy organic, pasture-fed, hormone/antibiotic free, vat-pasteurized, non-homogenized whole milk and the flavor is amazing. This coming from someone who frequently fought over wether she was going to drink the milk forced on her at the dinner table as a child. I now LOVE milk - and those little globs of fat that float in my glass are an added bonus.
Of course, it's questionable wether we really need milk in our diets and that's a choice we all get to make in our primal journey. Since I just discovered good milk, I don't want to give it up yet but as I monitor my progress in primal living it's something I will consider cutting out if it's hampering my results.
Posted 8 months ago # -
maba
MemberI got raw milk yesterday, gosh, it tastes like liquid ice cream!!! It came with the usual warning of how consumption of raw milk can be harmful blah blah. The husband dear saw it in the refrigerator and was aghast and said I was taking my my diet WAY too far and he said if at all I fall ill, that I was warned!!!
In your personal experience, have any of you had any negative side effects from drinking raw milk? Is all the negative rep associated w/ raw milk warranted?
Posted 8 months ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberThis only opinion, not so rare here, eh?
First, as adults we have no need for milk. On a low carb diet, it is bad, the lactose is a sugar, of course.
Second, do not confuse the high fat of full fat milk with raw. They are the same if from the same breed of cows. I did decades of 2% milk and finally decided, "Eff it, I love whole milk." That was pre-PB.
Third, modern farmers offering raw milk are careful and it is probably safe. Is it superior? Well, maybe. In what way? One gets enzymes or such that we don't need? From a product that we don't need? Frankly, does not compute to me.
Fourth, goat's milk makes me almost wretch. I have tried it any number of times including straight from the goat farm 1/2 mile from where I once lived. No thanks! (A side note: Andrew Carnegie in his last years could consume only goat's milk for his diet. Probably why he opined, "To die rich is to die disgraced."
Posted 8 months ago # -
OTB- good point, why worry if we arent supposed to drink it. There is a whole bacteria/enzyme relationship and how it compares btwn raw and past. milk.
BUT, I would say if we are going to consume milk (us bad PBers) should we not try to get the best we can? Since I have been drinking raw milk, I actually use less milk, because now I am all "quality over quantity" when I used to be the reverse. I usually use it for kefir or sometimes just to drink, but man... its tasty.
Also, I have had raw goat milk before, and I LOVE it. Apparently goats dont produce year round though, with their supply being spotty at best. Its a rare treat for me.
PS How are those free avocados treating you? ;)
Posted 8 months ago # -
We can even use raw milk to make Greek Yogurt!!! (Yummy!)
Posted 8 months ago # -
Posted 8 months ago #
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Thanks for posting that awesome link, sassafrass!
Posted 8 months ago # -
Raw milk isn't necessary, some people can't tolerate it very well.. But man, for those of who can, what a great health source. Native populations around the world have subsisted healthily on diets heavy in raw dairy--just look at Weston A Price's studies or follow up work by Ronald Schmid MD. Most importantly, look up Pottenger's Cats--these studies are simply alarming. Raw milk can be very healthy, that's what the research said. We adapted to eat it.
In Pasteurization, enzymes are lost, vitamins break down, helpful bacteria die.. I look at it like this - vitamins don't come alone in nature, they come in packages. Vitamin c and e work together, that's a simple example. If you take a whole bunch of vitamin C, you should also take vitamin e, or else your body will take the vitamin e out of its cells. Sugar comes with a package of vitamins, minerals, nutrients, fiber, etc. that you don't get when you eat processed sugar. So when you eat a bunch of processed sugar, without all the other stuff in a sugar cane or sugar beet, your body has to strip a quite a number of vitamins and minerals from your cells just to process that sugar. It's an antinutrient.
Similarly, pasteurization throws off the balance of milk, which in my view is a supreme health food. Pasteurization and homogenization took place for no reason other than to promote long distance distribution of milk from different farms, all mixed together, preventing accountability. If each farm was locally accountable, do you think there would be ecoli and pus in the milk?
Posted 8 months ago # -
TomD
MemberRaw milk is a delicious healthy food. Pastuerization and homogenization denatures the milk. If you don't believe me, try this test. Take some raw milk and regular store bought milk and leave it out on the counter for a week. The store bought milk will sour and putrify. You will get sick if you drink it. The raw milk will ferment into even a healthier curds and whey. Safe and healthy to eat.
Whether PB or not is a different story.
Posted 8 months ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberPasteurization took place to stop the spread of bacteria in raw milk, Sam. Cows would step in the milk bucket, hey, no problem, right?
Homogenation is something the public likes. Average lazy folk did not like shaking the milk jug every time they wanted a drink, homogenation fixed that like a car fixes walking.
Milk is not "balanced" for anything except a calf. What we get as a drinker of it has nothing to do with that. It doesn't matter if some enzymes or vitamins or whatever are up or down because milk will not be consumed as a sole food. It is eaten with other things that, just like all foods, some giveth and some taketh.
Much ado about nothing, scientifically. I don't have any problem with people who want it, there shouldn't be any legal barriers, which there are in many states. (My bit of libertarian streak.)
Adults just shouldn't be drinking much milk, anyway.
Posted 8 months ago #
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