Primal tendinitis remedy?
(29 posts) (11 voices)-
murat
MemberI have written in some posts that I have difficulty to fully follow PB, concerning the "lifting heavy things" part, because of a nasty and persistent right-shoulder tendinitis that has been handicapping me for nearly 8 months now. My MD has not taken it seriously and given me some anti-inflammatory meds :-( for 15 days, without any positive consequence. I was hoping that a less inflammatory diet would help me to get rid of it but it seems to take a lot of time. I am trying to protect my shoulder from any strenuous effort, but I have not been able to not use it completely (even writing this post makes me use it, I am afraid)...
I would really appreciate if you have some ideas for quickly getting rid of it, and becoming able again to lift some weights, and do my homework in the garden ;-)Regards,
Murat
Posted 8 months ago # -
Trinkwasser
MemberI used to suffer from annoying things like not quite frozen shoulder,not quite carpal tunnel etc. The only short term thing I found to help much was direct application of ketoprofen or similar ointment, which reduces local inflammation.
Long term these things have pretty much resolved through blood sugar control, connective tissue appears to become glycated by chronic high BG levels even before "diabetes" is diagnosed. Unfortunately they do take a long time to heal and I don't know many ways to improve on that, sorry! Sometimes massaging and *gently* using the affected part helps free it up, but overdoing it can worsen it rapidly.
Posted 8 months ago # -
murat
MemberCutting the shoulder part would probably have killed him, not a very efficient evolutionary strategy :-)
Never using the arm was not either a real option for him probably, since the family had to eat some meat. I know that you can get rid of a tendinitis if you can immediately stop using the concerned member for some time (like a week if the injury is not too bad). Unfortunately, this was not possible for me at the time of this injury. Now, eight months later, I continue to live with this thing... I have even heard people loving so much their tendinitis that they keep them for years (please tell mine that I rather hate it ;-) ).
@Trinkwasser: I have tried to gently using it but, it does not seem to like it much :-(
Murat
Posted 8 months ago # -
Miriam
MemberMurat, have a look at this post - Looking for an ultimate one day meal to help with inflammation – if your doctor has put you on anti-inflammatory meds and they are not working have another look at your diet and cut out anything that will cause inflamation, even though you have said this takes time it will be worth it.
Not very primal but maybe also see a physiotherapist, they should be able to show you some exercises to help strengthen your rotator cuff.
Ice packs can also help, 20 minutes max on the area a few times a day and that should bring some blood flow back into the shoulder.
Posted 8 months ago # -
murat
MemberThanks a lot Miriam,
I was following with a lot of interest, the post you mention. I will the the ice pack solution. Maybe it can help me. I can only see a physiotherapist if my MD sends me to him (otherwise, I must pay it from my pocket - the French system is trying to copy the UK one, now).
I will also return to see my MD, but I am afraid that he will just give me more (and probably stronger) anti-inflammatory meds... I would rather prefer to avoid them.Posted 8 months ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberI am a huge fan of physical therapists! I used to work for a huge seniors operation in Denver with over 1000 participants. The number of times someone came into our program in a wheelchair or using a walker with great difficulty only to not need them in six months is great.
While physicians are an obviously important part of the healing arts, the PT's were the ones in the trenches.
I, too, have a knee issue that won't go away. It first showed up in 1995, I think. An MRI didn't show anything that was of concern, too early. Most of the time since then I would just get a bolt of pain once in a rare while. Then suddenly a few weeks ago it is back with a vengeance! I even started using my double hinged knee brace on bad days, again. And some days are better, some worse, and it even varies within the day.
Even w/o the pain bolts, everything is tender around the knee. Yet, I can walk several miles, no problem. And the pain is no different if I don't walk. I have tried aspirin and Naproxen (??)but no long term benefits. I might try the heat or cold packs.
After all, when you live in America and don't get health benefits because you are taking care of family, and you are not 65 for Medicare (which is only 80/20 anyway), you are on your own.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Catalina
MemberMurat, I'm a big believer in trigger point therapy--a trigger point is a muscle that is referring pain to another spot. There are two great books by Clair Davies about how to work on your own trigger points: The Frozen Shoulder Workbook and The Trigger Point Therapy Workbook. This might not relate to your problem, but check it out and see. Trinkwasser's post about the effects of blood sugar control was very interesting also, wasn't it?
Posted 8 months ago # -
murat
Member@Catalina, thanks a lot. There is a definitely some convergence between your post and Trinkwasser's one, since I read on the web site of the book you mention: "Frozen shoulder is most often observed in women between the ages of forty and sixty and in individuals with type-two diabetes, although a man or woman of any age may be afflicted." That indicates a correlation between this sympton and diabetes.
I have stopped taking sugar for nearly three years (except some very rare occasions like birthdays etc.) and my blood tests are very good for blood sugar. So, I am not sure that diabetes is a suspect in my case (but I am not a doctor).
The Frozen Shoulder Workbook seems very interesting! I will explore the web site and probably buy the book, since I do not see any other solution for now (I do not want to take steroids for instance). Thank you very much for pointing to it.
@OTB: I am sorry for you knee pain. I have also a small problem with my left knee and my MD is sending me to some reeducation. The echography (ERM in English? I am not sure, like with the pregnant mothers who can see their babies with this tool) has showed that my muscles are not completely arranged there as they should.
Best regards,
Murat
Posted 8 months ago # -
Helen
MemberTry not eating any tomatos, bell peppers and eggplant (nightshades) and see if that helps. You should see some relief within 2 weeks.
Also, checkout http://www.Wonderweight.com This little tool has helped me with my shoulder problems. I feel my shoulder getting stronger!
Posted 8 months ago # -
Jazz
MemberFirst post, thought I would jump in, and I am sure it will not be popular...
In my practice, I have noticed something. Shoulder and arm pain is not usually caused by the shoulder or arm. Yes, I said it. Take a good look as to why, it really makes sense once you think about it.
The arms are appendages. They hang, they simply hang. Alter the anchoring point of the arms to the body through posture, and you affect the entire structure. Imaging hanging a hammock on a crooked tree, it hags wrong.
Treat the problem and not the symptom. the thoracic spine and the abdominal/visceral area being the problems. Remove the strain of the abdominals on the spine, and guide the vertebrae back into proper position, and the arms will hang more naturally and the pain will go down or disappear. Addressing the internal organs are obviously a huge component as well, since they will carry tension through the body creating a holding pattern.
It might seem far fetched, but my clients with frozen shoulders, carpal tunnel, rotator cuff strains all walk out with reduced pain, and increased movement, with very little treatment to the arms.
Posted 8 months ago # -
murat
MemberThanks Jazz for this interesting holistic point of view. I think that being conscious about systematic issues is important. Can you tell us more about your approach to put the structure inline?
In my particular case, I am not convinced that the problem is systematic, at least concerning this specific tendinitis (my very first one by the way). In fact, I have not explained the cause of this injury, probably because I was ashamed since it definitely goes against the PB Law #9 (Avoid stupid mistakes):
Last summer we have adopted a Lab puppy. We have seen her mother and she was a very kind lab but the father "was not visible" at the moment of our visit to the family. Well, it seems there was a reason to it: our puppy seems to have some Patou (Pyrennean shepherd dog, gets more than 80 pounds when adult) genes and she was growing a lot more quickly than a lab... I have taken some time to register this simple fact. When I was playing Tug-of-War with my "six month old lab puppy" I have overlooked that she was now a 60 pounds beast and bang, I had a very hard pain in the shoulder. I have thought that it would go away naturally (second stupid mistake) and have not taken any care of it for six months (I was very busy, but this is a stupid excuse, I know). Now, I am afraid that it became permanent :-( Some friends have told me that a tendinitis can take two years to heal, but I am really tired of not being able to do any weight lift exercises and of this continuous ache as soon as I try to use my right shoulder, which is very common, since I am right-handed...
Sorry for this rather long post. This is my confession :-)
Posted 8 months ago # -
marika
MemberI have tendinitis as well, from playing a musical instrument. I quit my musical occupation completely, over a year ago, did physical therapy, iced it frequently, did exercises for it, saw an Alexander Technique teacher, etc...
Nothing helped really except not using it. It still acts up sometimes, and definitely does when I'm ever stupid enough to pull out and play my instrument again!
I've heard that from friends as well, that it can take up to two to three years to heal (and that's if you actually let it heal, fully resting it from the problematic activities).
One thing I have done recently is start eating homemade bone broth. Supposedly the collagen/gelatin in it can be good for connective tissue, so I figure it can't hurt!
Posted 8 months ago # -
Sue
MemberTry accupuncture or microcurrent therapy.
Also anti-inflammatory herbs in a high potency supplement incl turmeric, ginger and quercetin. Fish oils. Remove gluten if in diet."The most common cause of tendonitis and bursitis is injury or overuse during work or play. This is particularly true if the patient is unfit, has bad posture or uses the affected limb in an awkward way. Sometimes an infection in the bursa or tendon will cause the area to be inflamed. Tendonitis or bursitis may be linked to other conditions. These include rheumatoid arthritis, gout, psoriatic arthritis, thyroid disease and diabetes."
Posted 8 months ago # -
Jazz
MemberTwo to three years to heal is terrible advice, but you really need to look at the source. Typically, friends are not educated in rehabilitation. The body WILL heal itself, BUT it needs to be placed in an optimal environment for such healing to occur. Muscles, fascia, blood supply, nerves, joints and organs.
Even in an injury setting, I tend to look at "Why would that injury occur?" There would be something that predisposes that area to be weaker. For example: Take the massive flexibility and relative instability of the shoulders in gymnasts. Watch them do the skin the cat maneuver on the rings, and even the dislocations they can do. The are still able to place extreme torque on these joints and yet they are not dropping like flies to rotator cuff strains. (Later in life is a different story.) If you watch their training and posture, it is typically quite solid.
I still preach about the maintaining of the torso in all forms, flexibility, strength and nutrition. The arms will follow suit. Not saying ignore the symptom, as the area needs to be addressed, especially the front muscles, but a simple exercise like a back bend over a swiss ball, or the yoga pose like the cobra will dramatically improve your recovery.
A quick note on frozen shoulder and diabetes. Osteopathic belief is that they are not a coincidence, but rather the pancreas is creating a restriction in the fascia chain and referring symptoms to the arm. This again back to the core.
A little run on. I'm not trying to show off, just trying to show my take on the issue.
Posted 8 months ago # -
Trinkwasser
MemberWow, some interesting stuff here!
I scrunched an ankle badly parachute jumping.
"It's not broken" said the nurse ( a fellow jumper)
"Good!" says I.
"You may not believe it but if it *was* broken it would heal a lot quicker, you've torn a tendon"
this proved correct, and since it was my right ankle and I was driving trucks at the time I couldn't not use it so it did take over a year before it was trouble-free. :(
The other things I've done seem to be related to RSI, I managed to transfer the pains from one shoulder to the other when I moved offices and had a different layout of computer, desk etc. and likewise the wrist pains almost certainly had a mechanical origin, worsened by my BG.
Physio may be worthwhile, or an osteopath, but they can vary dramatically in competence. Avoiding wheat especially is something you're probably already doing and ditching the nightshades may be worth a try, as is adding more anti-inflammatories like the turmeric etc. mentioned above.
One thing you do NOT want to do is wait until it is nearly healed, forget about it and rick it all over again (BTDT, once I tore a muscle in my lower back, I trod on a small piece of metal on the floor which moved and BANG! I could sit, stand or lie but moving between positions was hell, and just as it was nearly healed up I dropped something and made the mistake of trying to catch it and BANG! all over again)
Posted 8 months ago # -
murat
MemberYes, I have been 100% PB concerning the carbs for one month now. Yesterday, I have stopped eating nightshades but this is not easy: we are in the middle of the tomato/pepper/eggplant season in our region. They are really perfectly delicious at this period :-( Moreover, I love all of them so, this will cause some frustration. I will keep on for one week and see if this makes any -even small- difference. The last point is very important since, this is a real risk. This week I am in vacation and have been able to protect my shoulder, but during the year I have not stopped to forget it and force it, brrr, not very agreeable, this ache!
Posted 8 months ago # -
Jazz
MemberTrinkwasser is entirely correct. The efficiency and quality of any trained professional varies from person to person. I usually tell my clients to be sure to ask clear questions, an interview in a way, with any professional they decide to deal with.
Where was the pain? Front, top or back? What was the official diagnosis? I won't pretend to be of huge assistance, but its nice to know what you have going for you.
Posted 8 months ago # -
murat
MemberHi Jazz,
I have a frozen shoulder: when I try to lift something with my right arm, that hurts just where the arm connects to the shoulder. But sometime I also feel a deep pain (similar to a numbness) on the upper part of the arm, below the shoulder, in the external part. While touching different points around my shoulder, I have found a small spot on my upper back, close to the external border of the shoulder blade and I have been massaging it for two days and I have the impression that the pain is diminishing, but I am not sure about it.
I have just received the book by Clair Davis and started to read it. What do you think about this theory of trigger points, by the way?
Regards,Murat
Posted 8 months ago # -
Jazz
MemberOk. If it is a frozen shoulder, what severity is the frozen shoulder? With it being very frozen where the joint capsule is obliterated with adhesions, it will also be a matter of time before it recovers.
If it is in the freezing or frozen stage, I would still address the thoracic spine and diaphragm/internal organs as a primary cause with the shoulders being more secondary.Trigger point therapy works, and you would find some relief with subscapular treatments especially.
Posted 8 months ago # -
murat
MemberThanks a lot for your advices Jazz!
It was very frozen. Now I can lift it without pain something like 135 degrees with my body. Then it begins to become painful if I insist. If I lift a weight in my hand (even an empty glass), the free angle becomes even lower (120-130 degrees max). Horizontal movement is quite free. The angles were lower before I begin to "play" with the supposed trigger points (I am far from an expert in this domain). I never force things any way, not to hurt myself because of my limited knowledge...
I will have to go to a osteopath (is it written like thin in English?) I think, to have some direct professional help.Best regards,
Murat
Posted 8 months ago # -
Helen
MemberHere is an update on my frozen shoulder and using Wonderweight. http://www.Wonderweight.com
I have been using Wonderweight now regularly for about 2 months now. Before I was not able to raise my left arm up completely like my right arm. So I had problems with shaving my underarms. Now when I lift up my arms, they are both raised the same , so no problems shaving the underarms.
Also, I workout with a personal trainer and sometimes he has me using this machine, where I rest my elbows on an armrest and then lift up my knees to my chest. I could only do this for several repetitions and then my shoulder would start hurting. I am able to do more reps with each time.
Okay, I still can't lift up the knees to where they should be, but I am working on this, at least now, it takes longer before I feel discomfort in my shoulder. lolPosted 7 months ago # -
Not sure how I missed this very interesting thread before! I too have tendonitis in both shoulders, and have had two very painful episodes of frozen shoulder. (Seriously, I'm no wimp, gave birth naturally to four big babies, but this was the worst pain I ever had in my life.)
The last episode required a big shot of hydrocortisone and six weeks of physical therapy before I had use of my arm again. I never knew there was a link between this condition and Type II diabetes until my rheumatologist told me last week. Makes sense...I developed gestational diabetes with my last child 7 years ago, and I'm in the 40 to 60 age range.
I really want to thank Jazz for your helpful posts. I just learned more from you than all my doctors put together. Thank you!
Posted 7 months ago # -
murat
MemberHello,
Just to give you news about this problem and its evolution. I have received the books by Clair Davies and have been working on several trigger points I have found on muscles implied in shoulder mobility. It seems that I have accumulated over time an important number of them. They disappear one by one, following my massages, and I have recovered considerable mobility for my shoulder. But it continues to hurt if I push too much my arm. I was beginning to think that a real tendinitis was nevertheless a possibility. My last hope is a very nasty trigger point that I have just discovered by searching my muscles in the light of the movements that hurt (following the kinesiology tips of the shoulder book by Davies). It hurts like a devil and it is quite big. Maybe I have found the original one from which others have derived... I have been massaging it for two days, it continue to hurt a lot. I will keep you informed.Thank you for all your tips. Jazz, I have heard your advices and pay much more attention to my body position.
Best regards,
Murat
Posted 7 months ago #
Reply
You must log in to post.