IF causing anxiety, heart racing, euphoria
(33 posts) (14 voices)-
The title says it all. Right now my typical IF consist of a monday night fast (last meal around 4-5 pm as a late lunch), skip breakfast and lunch the next day and eat again 4-5; and the same on thursday night/friday.
Right now, the skipped dinner night isn't too bad, but in the morning I'm experiencing some heart racing, anxiety. I got plenty of energy in spades and occasionally mild bursts of euphoric feelings (which I don't mind). But forget about coffee on fasting days - it'll trigger panic attacks.
My one concern is whether its bad, or if I need to up my calorie content. Originally I was doing about 1500-1700 calories on fasting days, and didn't experience much hunger of ill effects at all. Now my fasting days are more like 1000 calories and I'm getting these symptoms. Given my size (283 lbs, 5'10", 34% fat) and my BMR (about 2500) I didn't think that was too low, but maybe it is.
Posted 4 months ago # -
GtrBMart
MemberI've been successfully combining the Warrior Diet with the PB for a month now (plus the Warrior Diet for a month+ before that). I IF every day. My one meal a day is somewhere in the time frame of 6-8 PM. I recommend you eat until you feel satisfied, regardless of how many calories it is. Some days I undereat and some days I overeat but I never have any ill effects the next day besides maybe being hungrier or not as hungry at dinner time.
Posted 4 months ago # -
bobbylight
BlockedTo be honest I don't agree with IF. If I don't eat enough during the day I get a head ache, something that pretty much never happens under any other circumstances. I doubt my body is giving me a headache because I'm doing something good for me.
Also, there is a serious lack of scientific evidence. This article was linked by Mark in his article about IF.
http://www.ajcn.org/cgi/content/full/86/1/7
This is an excerpt from the conclusion.
"However, it is important to note that the human studies examined in this review are limited; they all lacked control groups and used short trial lengths. "
Also, this article wasn't even specifically about IF, but actually about fasting every other day. Honestly, I don't see a need for it and I don't think it is beneficial at all.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Raphael
MemberI believe that if you get headaches during IF it is because you're body still depends on carbs for fuel - at least to some extent?
That used to happen to me every single day when I started the PB - I would get a headache from not eating for only 6 hours. When I upped my fat intake - I'd say it's around 70% right now - my headaches were gone and I can IF for 24 hours (or maybe more) if I wanted to.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Rocco, seems you have been dipping calories lower and lower and meeting unfavorable results! And be sure to keep an eye on the macronutrients, stay very low on the carbs gives me a smoother ride on IFs. As I am ultra low carb day to day, my fat stores are always at the ready as I have normalized my blood sugar. No insulin trapping the precious ebb and flow of fat.
Fiddle with it, ditch the caffeine all together for a while. And make the "I" for intermittent count. Try not to force it, and try to make fasting happen when it happens. Plan, of course, but don't force.
If it feels weird enough that you have questions, it probably isn't the best thing for ya!
Posted 4 months ago # -
bobbylight
BlockedRaphael, even if my body were to get used to IF and I could do it without getting headaches, why would I? And to be honest I don't think it is the carbs, I think it is the total amount of calories I am getting. If I don't eat enough, I just don't feel right. And I think this reaction is evolutionary. It is your body saying "GET SOME FOOD!"
I just don't buy the whole IF thing.
Posted 4 months ago # -
BlazeKING
MemberYou need to eat more calories. I do the PB/warrior diet of eating just one big meal a day at night and I have gotten great results with fasting everyday. I have been following it for 6 months or so. It is a little more extreme ...but you sometimes do have to increase your calories a lot for a day or two especially if you are new to fasting. I don't know if you are or not. The body adapts over time and those feelings die down some. It's a good feeling IMO. You are like a lion that is hungry...you are alert and on the prowl. I ask myself, do I want to be a grazer everyday, like a cow, or a grand feasting predator like the lion?
Niklas/Raphael - for me personally I workout on an empty stomach early afternoon and generally eat at 6 or 7 pm. I usually eat a pound or more of meat and a lot of veggies, a lot of times in stews. Then some nuts/nut butter or eggs, + some berries at the end
Posted 4 months ago # -
bobbylight
BlockedRaphael, can you show me studies (not animal studies) that prove your point? One thing I have realized is that even if a trusted source on dieting (mark for example) says something, do some research for yourself. Look at the studies that these people reference as well as the studies that say the opposite of what these people are pushing (because there likely are studies that say the opposite.)
Don't just trust people, do your own research.
Posted 4 months ago # -
BlazeKING
Memberbobby, if you quit cigarettes or alcohol binging you get a headache but you are doing something good for yourself. Your body is used to eating. It's an addiction to eating and your headache isn't surprising. Your body expects food soon and it's not getting it. It will adapt quickly to IF, just space out the meals more and more every day so you can get your body used to not eating all the time.
I like IF because it gives my digestive system rest and moves energy to repairing. Sleep does the same since it is technically fasting, but it isn't long enough. Fasting improves insulin sensitivity, increases HGH, and it's hard to argue about the longevity studies of intermittent fasting. Frankly, I enjoy food more now when I am not eating all the time.
Posted 4 months ago # -
bobbylight
BlockedI don't know. Personally I don't think that rats = humans in dietary studies. It seems that IF has a positive effect on insulin, but if you are eating a low carb diet as it is, it barely even matters.
Check out this study. It is extremely short term (2 weeks) and extremely small (8 people) but it just came out this week.
"CONCLUSIONS: IF does not affect whole-body glucose, lipid, or protein metabolism in healthy lean men despite changes in muscle phosphorylation of GSK and mTOR. The decrease in resting energy expenditure after IF indicates the possibility of an increase in weight during IF when caloric intake is not adjusted."
Basically it is saying that when you are doing IF, you are burning less calories while resting. Meaning that there is a possibility of gaining weight while doing IF. It makes sense to be honest...especially from an evolutionary stand point.
I mean, if your body is only getting food every so often, it has to conserve energy. So it is going to slow things down so that it will slow down starvation. It makes total sense.
I totally support fasting for spiritual or mental reasons...as for nutritional reasons, I don't think the science is behind it.
Posted 4 months ago # -
bobbylight
BlockedBlazeking, saying I am addicted to food is like saying I'm addicted to water or air.
Also, here is a study (another small one...6 people) about athletes fasting for ramadon. This includes fasting of food and water during sunlight (if you weren't aware). Anyway, it says that they lost weight (probably due to the lack of calories) but their level of plasma growth hormone did not change at all between the before fasting, 1 week in, and 4 weeks in.
Anyway, here is the study
Posted 4 months ago # -
Lee Miller
MemberThe bottom line is one thing... If you give your body half a chance, it tries to heal itself. Think about it, when youre sick you really arent hungry. Youre body has the ability to heal itself. We are so conditioned to eat at certain times and at certain intervals. Especially now with the six meals a day craze...its hard to think we can go with 2 maybe only 1 meal a day...kinda scary. Anyway like most would agree...listen to your body and eat when hungry. Sometimes though you may be hungry for entertainment, friendship, or activity instead of food.
Posted 4 months ago # -
bobbylight
BlockedAlso, check this study out. Apparently people fasting during ramadan have a harder time concentrating than people not fasting.
Other than decreased body weight (which in another study body weight stayed the same) I have yet to find any positive effects of IF. Can someone point me to a human study that shows these positive effects?
Because honestly, if you believe in the whole evolution knows what is best for us health wise, you would have to believe we evolved under the same conditions as mice to get the same effect from fasting...right?
Posted 4 months ago # -
Niklas
Member@bobbylight
the best short and referenced book I have read on IF is "Eat Stop Eat" from Brad Pilon. Pilon doesn't suggest a warrior diet style but what I liked is all the studies including those showing we need little protein and protein underconsumption doesn't result in muscle loss or the studies showing that even after 2 consecutive day of not eating our "metabolic rate" doesn't slow down at all.Posted 4 months ago # -
bobbylight
BlockedThis one is interesting. It is a review, and I don't know any of the sources they used (unfortunately), but it says that Calorie restriction and IF are good for the prevention and treatment of alzheimer's and Parkinson's.
So that is positive, though unfortunately I cannot find any actual studies that back it up.
Posted 4 months ago # -
bobbylight
BlockedNiklas, if you just looked at the first study I posted, that came out this week...
it states that there is a decrease in resting energy expenditure while IF. This seems to go against the study that says that your metabolic rate doesn't slow down. Maybe if you stop for two days it won't slow down, but if you eat every other day for two weeks (like in the study i just posted) it will slow down.
Posted 4 months ago # -
lil_earthmomma
MemberBobbylight, I consider IF to be eating when your body tells you too, not when someone else tells you to.
Sometimes I don't get hungry all day. Should I eat anyways? I generally don't.
A headache, dizziness, shakes etc. definitely are your bodies way of saying "EAT!!!" lol
Posted 4 months ago # -
erik.cisler
MemberThree doctors' extremely positive experiences with IF:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleURL&_udi=B6WN2-4JFGFM7-1&_user=10&_handle=V-WA-A-W-CV-MsSAYWA-UUW-U-AAZUYUBBUZ-AACYBYVAUZ-AWZWYZAYU-CV-U&_fmt=summary&_coverDate=12%2F31%2F2006&_rdoc=3&_orig=browse&_srch=%23toc%236950%232006%23999329997%23624953!&_cdi=6950&view=c&_acct=C000050221&_version=1&_urlVersion=0&_userid=10&md5=96c00cfa4fff7eb7671448500eabcb1e
Posted 4 months ago # -
bobbylight
BlockedI can't really relate to not getting hungry. Unless I have the flu or something, I am eating at a regular schedule. The times I eat my meals usually fluctuate depending on how hungry I am, but I always get 4 meals in during the day.
Also, to be honest, I think that if you don't get hungry all day you should eat anyway. But maybe that is just me. The thing is though, if you are eating normally and on a schedule every day, you will not have days that you don't get hungry. Your body is used to your schedule and it gets hungry accordingly. I tend to think that it is only after you start introducing IF to your diet that you have days where you don't get hungry at all.
Posted 4 months ago # -
bobbylight
BlockedThanks eric for posting the study. I would like to look further into the study though. I wonder how they found they tested and found these improvements in their health or if it was purely observational. They don't mention anything about study subjects, so I'm not sure. Also, I would like to look into the spanish study as well. They mention that the number of days that the control group was in the hospital was much higher than the IF group...but that could be thrown off by a few people being in the hospital for a long time. I don't think "overall days in the hospital" is the best thing to look at when looking at overall health.
Either way it is an interesting study...thanks eric.
Posted 4 months ago # -
bobbylight
BlockedThis study states
"This experiment is the first in humans to show that intermittent fasting increases insulin-mediated glucose uptake rates, and the findings are compatible with the thrifty gene concept."
I'm actually embarrassed to say that I don't really know what "insulin mediated glucose uptake rates" are, but I think the study is saying it is a good thing :)
Here is another one saying fasting in ramadan can be bad for your ability to think correctly
"CONCLUSION: The major changes during Ramadan fasting are chronobiological and behavioral. They could be responsible for the high incidence of road traffic accidents and the reduction of working hours during the month of Ramadan."
Posted 4 months ago # -
I LOVE IFing occasionally. I was skeptical at first too, but when I found this series of articles:
... I decided to give it a try. (That link is just to part 1. Click on to the other parts when you finish reading that one.)
I think it's a GREAT thing to do, and I love the way my body feels when I'm doing it... really peaceful. I might have a couple stomach growls at first at normal "mealtimes" (because yeah, your body does just start to expect food if you're on a schedule) but that goes away in a few minutes and I realize I'm not actually hungry because my body still has energy from other sources.
I've even done some fasted workouts and had no problems with energy.
To the OP, it seems like you definitely need to get in more calories though - 1000 is about how low I go on a "low" IF day under normal circumstances (though I had a couple 700ish days recently), and I'm only 130 pounds. It seems like you'd need more than me! And try making sure you have a good amount of fat. Fat seems to really make me feel stable... worth a try.
Posted 4 months ago # -
IFing only works if you listen to your body. This week, I haven't IFd because I've had to take some hefty medication that I can't take on an empty stomach. But instead of going mad for food, I've just been eating a handful of nuts (if that) and then taking the medication.
When I IFd the week before, I only fasted until my body was properly hungry. Some days that was 24 hours, some days less. If you are getting a racing heart, headaches and any other untoward effects, that means you need to eat.
It's quite difficult to begin listening to your body, when we've all been used to eating as a routine and stuffing ourselves with carbs.
But if IF doesn't work for you - don't do it!
Posted 4 months ago # -
Anand Srivastava
MemberIF is the analogue of Grok not catching prey. IF is easier if you have been low carb before going into IF. I would guess that it is good for your body because it stresses your body. Its like HIIT. It forces your body to adapt.
If you were to do IF for a very long time, then the body will need to lose some muscle to obtain the required glucose. This is the source of reduced BMR. We don't know how long that period is. It will depend on your metabolism. I would think people able to burn fat efficiently will be able to survive without dipping into their muscles for about two days. This works out because the body with full glycogen stores has enough to provide for this time, including physical exertion.
I would think the proper way to do a long IF will be to first have a high carb meal (to have as much glycogen as you can, I think 150gms in a single meal would be more than enough), then a low carb or zero carb meal, to prime the body for burning fat as fuel, and then to take a long IF. This IF could possibly go upto 2 days without any loss of muscle mass. A small amount of muscle mass is not a problem anyway, it builds back immediately.
If you are doing IF for shorter term or you are not doing any high intensity exercise then precarbing is not required. 24 hour fasts are normal, they shouldn't be a problem at all even with exercises, for people not eating much carbs.
The problem with Ramadan is that people eat too much wheat/rice, which might be the cause of problems. They should actually stick to just meat and possibly veggies. They do lose a lot of weight during that time. They also eat a lot of bad fats (refined oil).
Posted 4 months ago #
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