H1N1 Vaccine .. safe or using fear to make $$?
(143 posts) (45 voices)-
syzchan
MemberNo one has mentioned this so I thought I would. Spent some time with an Obs Gyn doctor yesterday and she was recommending all her pregnant patients get the shot. One reason she listed for getting the shot was potential protection for the baby after birth. The baby can't get the vaccination for the first 6 months but if you get the shot while pregnant, it may pass on some immunity to your baby after birth.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberPeople who got the swine flu - and didn't die - in 1957 are presumed immune to this one, I think.
My mother was a year old when the 1918 flu went around, but there is no mention of it in our family history. I'm sure there are a few of her age that are technically immune.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
gazb
MemberJust saw this article: "10 things you're not supposed to know about the swine flu vaccine".
http://www.naturalnews.com/z026717_swine_flu_flu_vaccine_swine_flu_vaccine.html
OK, it's certainly not unbiased, and doesn't cite any sources for its big claims, but maybe there's truth to it? I'm not an expert so I can't comment.
Anyway I'm in the UK and I know quite a few people, including coworkers, who've had swine flu, or at least suspected swine flu. In every case it's been bad for a few days then gone again, like the regular flu. Me... I got a mild cold for two days and it cleared up again; I love my immune system!
Don't know if there's a vaccine being offered here, certainly not heard much about it.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
Vick
MemberA study out of Alabama suggests antioxidants helps fight influenza.
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2009/10/091029125538.htm
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
it's a complete fraud. there are absolutely zero scientifically based studies proving either safety or efficacy of this vaccine. the last time there was a huge influenza scare (1976), there was a similar pro-vaccine campaign from drug manufacturers and from the cdc and the fda. the vaccine caused neurodegenerative disorders in thousands of people (look up guillon barre syndrome) and the vaccine was discontinued.
in any case, the swine flu season has already peaked in america. in australia, where winter came and went, swine flu rolled through without significant problems.
check out my article on the swine flu vaccine
http://newfoodview.wordpress.com/2009/10/30/who-needs-swine-flu-vaccines/Posted 3 weeks ago # -
LPCRoy
MemberIf I read one more article saying how it's all greedy Big Pharma trying to force the vaccine down our throat, I may throw up. Do you know why we have a shortage right now? Because most of the major vaccine producers got out of the market becaues THEY COULDN'T MAKE ANY MONEY AT IT! There is such little money in vaccines that no one is really interested in it. The GLOBAL market for vaccines is a $6 Billion/year industry. The Vitamin industry is a $25 Billion/year industry JUST IN THE USA!!!! Why is the Vaccine industry so evil at less than a quarter the size of the ever so loved (and unregulated) vitamin industry?
And no, Vitamin D is not as effective as the vaccine. It helps, don't get me wrong, just as staying healthy and practicing good hygiene in general does.
The whole reason we're having this debate over if this really is a pandemic or not and if we should be overreacting is because Felipe Calderon saved all of our butts by overreacting and basically shutting Mexico down for 2 weeks. It really can't be stated enough how much this has helped slow the spread of H1N1. When I see what happend near me at WSU where it skyrocketted to 2,500 cases in a few weeks it's really scary.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
LCPRoy - you make some valid points. so let's stick to these parameters: is the vaccine safe, and is it effective.
i challenge you to show me studies that prove either of these points.
meanwhile, check out my articles discussion on thimerosol and autism. feel free to refute my points. but at least you will understand why this is an emotional issue for many.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
SerialSinner
MemberGoodfriendsam, why would the vast majority of universities doing research on the topic seem to support the thesis that there is no link between thimerosal and autism?
I am not an expert in pharmacology, so I tend to outsource judgments about drugs and their effects on people or institutions accredited to do research on them.
A search in google restricted to .edu sites seems to be a good indicator of the generalized opinion of the scientific community:
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
syzchan
MemberGuillon Barre Syndrome results from your body over-reacting to an infection, whether it be viral or bacterial. It is a known complication to any flu vaccine, even the normal seasonal one. The risk is about 1 in a million if you get a vaccination. But, people rarely die from it and most fully recover. People do die from the flu.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
LPCRoy
MemberThe easiest way to refute the Thiomersal link is a chart like this
http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/files/2008/autism_thimerosal.jpg
Denmark removed Thiomersal from all childhood vaccines in 1992...yet childhood autism continued to skyrocket.
As SS pointed out, there has not been a single study to link autism to thiomersal and yes, it has been very well studied.
http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1921679,00.html
Is a good start in the studies showing the efficacy of the vaccine. In the medical community, the only real debate around efficacy is if young children need 1 shot or 2.
To be honest though, I don't believe a lot of people's doubts about the vaccine are founded in good, solid science anyway so no amount of good, solid, science will dissuade them from their beliefs. Which is sad and goes back to our earlier arguments of what a sad state of affairs science education and understanding is in.
I honestly don't get how it's easier to believe that a Globally $6 Billion/year industry (smaller than the bicycle industry in bike-unfriendly USA...my company has small products that are bigger than this) is managing to enact some kind of global conspiracy to kill us all and keep us sick for the sake of their $6 Billion (again, I can't emphasize enough how small this is) as opposed to maybe, just maybe, science and modern medicine, an industry that's managed to DOUBLE our life expectancy in the past century and give us cures to life threatening illnesses without which a lot of us won’t be alive right now, is trying to save lives.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
thanks for arguing everyone, im happy to defend my position. if the science proves me wrong, you better trust that i will change my ideas. im sticking to the facts here. i know it sounds extreme, but try to hear me out.
serial sinner - show me one study that proves safety that is long-term, has variable populations (healthy, nonhealthy, pregnant, young, old, etc), and tests for individual and compounded toxins (formaldehyde, squaline, mercury, and the other things in the swine flu vaccine).
syzchan - look up what happened in 1976 with the GBS caused by the influenza vaccine. (here's a link to a CBS 60 minutes report on it - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFcnneAqnTM ). other causes of the disease are not relevant here.
lpc roy - http://www.naturalnews.com/027175_vaccines_autism_chemicals.html the study here shows that vaccines DO cause autism in children with mitochondrial dysfunction. do we test for mitochondrial dysfunction? no. do we know who has it? no. we're gambling with the lives of children here. here's vaccines can do to children with mitochondrial dysfunction. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/28/health/28vaccine.html
i am definitely not saying that thimerosol causes all cases of autism, but we do know it causes some. this is indisputable, am i wrong?
i looked at the time.com article. despite the headline, most of the science magazine article conclusions seem to be about the spread of h1n1, not the vaccine. show me the study parameters and findings and we can really discuss.
i'm not going to respond to any arguments about the pharmaceutical industry or their motives; this is irrelevant.if anybody wants to get really deep into anti-vaccine research, check out this article from gary null. http://www.garynull.com/SwineFluWhitePaper.pdf
anyway, this argument is history. the peak of the swine flu "pandemic" has already passed. millions of americans have already been infected, according to the cdc (reference: garynull.org 10/29 radio show). tens of thousands of people have not died. im thankful for that. australia already went through the full flu season (their winter is long gone) and there were no serious problems.
the science isnt there, that's all im saying.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberYes, I am, because in terms of statistical odds, it is the only thing that will fully protect a person. No one is making big $$$ off of it. Vaccine technology has been improved and improved since the first efforts at smallpox inoculation in the 17th century. Do you know about that?
I'm not in a high risk group. There is a shortage. If and when there is plenty to go around, I will get it.
I'm not stupid. Science and probability is on my side.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
No vaccine will fully protect a person. None are 100% effective, and all have some degree of risk (some very small, but it is there). It may be a no-brainer for you, OTB, but I had to do some research and weigh the odds before I decided I and my family should get it.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
Ecala
MemberI really like this doctor's perspective about the H1N1 flu and vaccine:
http://www.healthyalterego.com/?p=1136
Basically he states that it is a personal decision, but he does close with this statement:
I am still not subjecting my family to this vaccine. I have scientific evidence and faith that the measures I take will protect my family. I choose to have faith in my immune system supported by proper vitamin D, vitamin C and andrographis. These are known entities that have proven effect. I can’t make that statement about the H1N1 vaccine.
And then he states the following in response to a pregnant woman wondering if she should get the vaccine:
Hi Dr Huber~
Great information. I am 27 and 20 weeks pregnant and wondering if the complications of swine flu/influenza A virus are greater for pregnant women. People don’t agree with me not getting the H1N1 and flu vaccination because of the complications in pregnant women if they get it. What is your opinion? I read you flu prevention article, of those tips which are safe for pregnant women?
Hi Ashley,
The “authorities” say that a pregnant female is at greater risk and recommends a flu vaccine. If you choose to follow the standard advice then at least protect yourself from heavy metals by getting “monovalent” or single dose vaccine that will likely be free of mercury or aluminum. I really cringe at the thought of placing these elements into a developing fetus. The whole process of vaccination just is not natural. It is one thing to ingest some of these elements but quite another to inject them. Yes you are vulnerable but the effects of the vaccine are another assault on your body and fetus. A study just came out showing that of kids receiving vaccines there is a 155% increase of neurological disorders such as autism, ADD and ADHD. This study was in kids getting vaccines, not unborn fetuses but it highlights the connection. The whole idea that vaccine manufacturers are held free of any liability and that there is a VAERS (Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System) that reviews over 30 thousand reported cases per year, just screams at me that something is wrong with this whole system. I find it very scary and what makes it so scary is the secrecy, the governmental involvement, the special laws, the known cover ups. We don’t know what is going on because there is a ton of money being made and a lot of it being spent to cover up the mess. Now look what you’ve done Ashley, you have me on a rant.The healthiest alternative you can pursue is to take probiotics to aid your bowel health which houses 70% of your entire immune function. Eat a clean diet with tons of organic vegetables and drink clean, filtered water out of non-plastic containers. Take vitamin C and lots of vitamin D. Not only are these elements safe for your baby they will improve your babies health. Andrographis is contraindicated in pregnancy. Get some exercise, avoid alcohol, laugh, and wash your hands. Yes these simple and boring truths will aid your immune response. I wish you and your baby well whatever your choice but my wife never received such a vaccine for the reasons I listed above.
Thanks for your question, I’m sure you’re not alone in this dilemma.Posted 2 weeks ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberRiiiiiiiiiiight! (Sarcasm)
No doubt a good diet can ward off a lot of illnesses. One does not need to be a scientist to know that. It's another thing to say it's as good as a vaccine. Especially since this flue strikes mostly young and healthy people, ones w/o decades of diet or body abuse.
The causal link between vaccines and autism is proven beyond a doubt to be invalid. As to ADD and ADHD, here are two rather loosy-goosy behavorial diagnoses that would show up, at the least, several years after typical shot times. Rather tough to accurately make that connection.
Further, let's just say he is correct about a 155% increase. This is insufficient knowledge to make a judgment from AND it suffers from lacking the other side of the equation. If one out of a thousand people get autism, ADHD, or ADHD w/o vaccines, then a 155% increase is another person and a half for a total of 2.5 persons out of a thousand. Now, if (and I AM just making up numbers here) 5 people out of a thousand who don't get the vaccine die...... I'd say better ADD than dead, ya know?
As we know from being immersed in the likes of Atkins, Cordain, and others, many scientists can get 90-95% of something very right and then the balance is a real "Huh?"
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
Dr. Gary Huber is an osteopath. The flu is not a chronic condition brought on by poor lifestyle choices or a misalignment in the musculoskeletal system. His endorsement of the vaccine-autism link discredits anything else he says regarding vaccination issues.
Mike Adams (NaturalNews) promotes a raw diet. Why rely on his advice on vaccines and not his dietary advice?
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
Ecala
MemberRiiiiiiiiiiight! (Sarcasm)
I really don't care if you believe the flu vaccine is necessary or not, but please, refrain from the constant stream of sarcasm. It doesn't add ANYTHING to any of the topics here on MDA. I get a feeling a few people here are growing tired of your attitude. You are now officially on "ignore"
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
In today's terms, D.O.s evaluate each patient's personal health risks-such as smoking, high blood pressure, excessive cholesterol levels, stress and other lifestyle factors. In coordination with prescribing appropriate medical treatment, osteopathic physicians act as teachers to help patients take more responsibility for their well-being and to change un-healthy patterns.
from http://bit.ly/3lBMli
Osteopathy is an approach to healthcare that emphasizes the role of the musculoskeletal system in health and disease...In practice, this most commonly relates to musculoskeletal problems such as back and neck pain. Osteopathic principles teach that treatment of the musculoskeletal system (bones, muscles and joints) facilitates the recuperative powers of the body.
from http://bit.ly/11S2yp
My point is that osteopathy is geared towards achieving general wellness through an integrated approach of body systems and lifestyle factors. General wellness refers to the absence and prevention of chronic diseases brought on by poor lifestyle choices; osteopaths aim to regain body's internal ability to maintain healthy functioning, particularly through proper alignment of the musculoskeletal system. As a viral invader, the flu is an external threat and does not represent a malfunction in the bodily system due to an unhealthy lifestyle or misalignment of the spine.
I am not discrediting osteopathy in general; I agree that a holistic approach is necessary in optimizing one's health. As we all agree, nutrition and lifestyle factors are the primary determinants of our general health.
However, a healthy lifestyle is not a panacea for all ailments. Infectious diseases, like the flu, are different from imbalances arising in the body due to an unhealthy lifestyle.
Yes, he is entitled to his opinion; everyone is. However, his entitlement to an opinion does not mean that his opinion is valid evidence against vaccination. Not only does his profession address chronic conditions rather than infectious diseases, but he endorses the vaccine-autism causal link that has been thoroughly discredited by the medical community.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberOf course he is. You get flu because you have eaten/supplemented right. That's lifestyle.
D.O.'s historically have been about muscular-skeletal defects causing illnesses. Similar to chiropractic.
The D.O. "industry" has pretty much dropped that in training except for a few hard cores and is now just an alternative route to practice medicine. But because of that history, it seems that I'm more likely to see "la la" comments and theories coming from a DO than an MD. It just attracts them more.
My clinic doctor is a DO, so I'm not slamming them out of a reaction.
Posted 2 weeks ago # -
Ecala
Memberbut he endorses the vaccine-autism causal link that has been thoroughly discredited by the medical community.
I don't know enough about the autism/vaccine connection to comment on that, but which medical community are we talking about here-- conventional?
Shine, thanks for your thoughtful, well-written explanation but I don't know why I'm getting myself caught up in such a controversial topic.
Posted 2 weeks ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.