H1N1 Vaccine .. safe or using fear to make $$?
(145 posts) (46 voices)-
OnTheBayou
MemberI show, I think pretty well, that the sky is not falling, and yet I'm advised that it's my undies that should remain unknotted?????????
Fox "News" may say what you want to hear, but in terms of accuracy and objectivity it is worse than a joke. It is a propaganda machine for the far right wing. Roger Ailes' has said so.
Welcome to the Matrix.
Posted 4 months ago # -
Fox News tells it like it is, btw. Like it REALLY is.
No, it doesn't. It really doesn't.
Please tell me how the above clip is "telling it like it is." Beck was accessing a dealer-only website and portraying it as the government taking over private citizen's personal computers. This is a blatant misrepresentation designed to frighten viewers.
FoxNews is the most biased news network today. However, editorial bias is the nature of the game; all the anchors on the all the major networks put a personal spin on the news. This is not the problem. The main problem with Fox is that it actively promotes a political agenda. What about the Tea Parties and the 9-12 March? Is it seriously appropriate for a "news" outlet to promote these events and then cover them? If that is not a conflict of interest in reporting, then I do not know what is.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I live in Mass, too, & they can't force anyone to be immunized for anything. I checked on it about 2 - 3 weeks ago when the legislation was first proposed. Besides, this isn't enough to go around and right now it's only available to "at risk" people.
What we're doing at my house is taking extra Vitamin D, and elderberry (it shores up cell membranes making it harder for the virus to penetrate). On Monday my kidlets have their annual with the pediatrition & we will be discussing the flu. We all had it in Feb and it was extremely miserable & I'd prefer not to have a repeat. My older daughter and I got secondary infections, too. Completely craptacular.
BTW, this *IS* a very deadly flu. It's the same type of flu as the 1918 influenza. It settles deep in the lungs, not just the upper respiratory tract like the regular seasonal flu. It has already killed twice the number of kids than the normal seasonal flu.
Posted 4 months ago # -
PrimalGoddess
Memberhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nTgyakGAddM&feature=player_embedded
ck out the video and you decide
I would never give this vaccine to my kids
my son is sick right now with Swine flu he is 9 and said "Mom this is just like the normal flu" he is on herbs that are stronger then Tamiflu without all the side effects from my Naturopath! he is getting better already and fever has broke...watch the video xoxo DarlenePosted 4 months ago # -
SerialSinner
MemberDarlene, seriously...
I am extremely appalled of how miserably incompetent the scientific community is at marketing it's knowledge.
Why hasn't the scientific community managed to find a way to make it's message more compelling and appealing to the masses? My take is that they assume that the majority will respond to rational arguments and evidence the way they do. Well this is obviously not the case.
Right now, the scientific community is losing against pseudo-scientific charlatans, paranoid conspiracy theorists and superstition-based institutions in many fronts.
For some reason, many people seem to find the statements of, say, an Ivy-League post-doc in pharmacology, as equally valid or even less important than the ones from someone with no background whatsoever in the field. Because *all* scientists are squares and probably employed by big-pharma...
And Fox News says things the way they really are? Seriously??? I'd rather watch The Onion.
Posted 4 months ago # -
LPCRoy
MemberRight now, the scientific community is losing against pseudo-scientific charlatans, paranoid conspiracy theorists and superstition-based institutions in many fronts.
I'm not sure if I really want science to do what it takes to win that battle. Part of the reason why some people find pseudo-science more convincing is the fact that science is a slow, well thought out, deliberate process that always questions itself. Science gets things wrong and admits it as part of the scientific method. Science never makes absolute statements because it knows not to (RE: Theory of Evolution for example...people latch parts where science has admitted "We don't know how that happened" or the fact that it's called a Theory). Drugs have to go through clinical studies and years of testing. Doctors have to go to decades of schooling. It's hard!
Snake-Oil Salesmen are not limited by any of this. Your Naturopath will claim 100% certainty that they know what's going on with you and that their medication is what's best. In fact, they're so certain that they don't need to submit their claims to clinical testing (why bother because the jealous greedy big pharma doctors will just try to destroy the results, right?)
SS, Going through the other videos the person who made "The Dose Makes the Poison", I found this gem as well
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lh7e-ZDHnowPosted 4 months ago # -
SerialSinner
MemberThanks for the video LPC. That channel always has something interesting to offer.
I do believe that the planet would be better-off if scientific knowledge was more appealing, or at least was seen as more trust-worthy, than superstition or pseudo-science.
We only need to watch the news to see the damage that is directly and indirectly caused by religion-induced hatred, "alternative" medicine, misconceptions about race, gender and social orientation, and of course, diet.
If people paid more attention to "square, nerdy, big-pharma-sell-out" scientists and actually realized they might know what they are talking about, many would be better off.
Posted 4 months ago # -
We only need to watch the news to see the damage that is directly and indirectly caused by religion-induced hatred, "alternative" medicine, misconceptions about race, gender and social orientation, and of course, diet.
I completely agree. Exalting belief leads to nothing but grief.
I often wonder why sensationalized conspiracy theories are so appealing to many people. Is it the thrill of rebelling against the mainstream? Or is it just the excitement derived from hearing about danger and scandal? Maybe it is a combination of both, plus a sense of belonging to a elite group that is "in the know."
Part II of Dawkins' 2007 documentary "The Enemies of Reason" discusses the pitfalls of belief in the health industry:
http://bit.ly/1XD0ATPosted 4 months ago # -
SerialSinner
Memberedit: social orientation = sexual orientation
Shine, I think we are all, to some extent, bothered by uncertainty. And it's this discomfort resulting from not-knowing what, imo, drives us to seek knowledge and understanding. We all have different tools to deal with not-knowing though. My idea of the world would probably be very different had I chosen to become a lawyer, for example.
I stress the importance of making science more non-scientist-friendly because sometimes it's not that easy to "reprogram" our brains to be more accepting of new sources or ways of processing information.
If there was a fringe movement pushing a new knowledge system as a better way to understand reality while referring to science as naive, I have to recognize that I would be biased against it, and would probably have trouble giving it the benefit of the doubt.
But then, if I was introduced to it in a more science-friendly way, I might take it more seriously.
Also, if you add the fact that many scientists are socially-handicapped, uncharismatic and bad-looking, the issue gets even more complicated...
Posted 4 months ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberSS, right on.
Science education, which reached a peak when I was a kid, that post-Sputnik time, has fallen by the wayside. It's pretty much now relegated to the nerds and careers in engineering or biology. The average kid is just plain scientifically illiterate. We see a lot of results of that right here on this forum.
Even if one cannot spout scientific chapter and verse, science trains for critical thinking. Another casualty of many movements, both political and social.
Posted 4 months ago # -
yay... i am NOT responsible for THIS vaccine debate.
on that note... my wife is 5 months pregnant.
We have decided to forgo any flu vaccines.
Posted 4 months ago # -
@SS: Since moving to Texas a few years ago and encountering Evangelical Christianity in the flesh, I have become fascinated with how fear of the unknown drives so much human behavior and thought. I wonder why some chose the route of faith and belief over reason and evidence; is it that the former is easier? Is it because fear is so strong an emotion that it compels an emotional response?
One of the biggest arguments against science that I encounter here is, "well, science doesn't have all the answers." This is usually followed by an example of a scientific theory that was proven "wrong." Of course, this stems from that fundamental misunderstanding of the scientific process.
I really cannot understand why scientific thinking has been so misaligned today. Like OTB says, even if one does not pursue a career in science, critical thinking and a reliance upon evidence yields a stronger basis for understanding the world around us than a maelstrom of emotional beliefs. (Btw, OTB, I am going to email you with questions from that other thread when I get a chance; I am drowning in research for two term papers atm.)
@Maleficarum: Lol!:) These vaccine threads seem to have a life of their own. I don't think that it is a bad thing; healthy debate is crucial to healthy thinking.
Posted 4 months ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberAmen, Shine. I look forward to hearing from you.
My three kids and ex all wound up living in Texas. Sigh. So, I've observed that culture a lot for 15 years. It's like those Tourist Bureau ads say, "It's a whole 'nuther country." It sure is! I always bring my passport....just in case.
Posted 4 months ago # -
go_ginger_go
MemberPlease don't fall for the hysteria and fear-mongering.
If you're healthy and are eating primally (no sugar, which suppresses your immune system) and supplementing, you should be fine. Just wash, wash, wash your hands (for a minimum of 10 seconds every time with warm, soapy water -- most people don't do this properly and, thus, are merely spreading the germs around on their hands), stay away from places like movie theaters until this thing runs its course, and get lots of rest. My friend swears by vitamin D. I swear by an essential oil called Thieves, which I've been keeping on me at all times since this started.
No way am I getting the shot, despite being pressured into it by my employer (a hospital). The ONLY time in my life I've ever had the flu was the one time I was coerced into getting the flu vaccine.
Posted 4 months ago # -
LPCRoy
MemberPlease don't fall for the hysteria and fear-mongering.
.
.
.
No way am I getting the shot, despite being pressured into it by my employer (a hospital)The irony of this post runs deep. We all just pick and choose which hysterian and fear-mongering we fall for :). Don't kid yourself into thinking skipping the vaccine, especially working in a hospital, is a risk-free choice. It's trading one kind of risk for another.
And the hospital is pressuring you to get the vaccine not for your own good (although that's part of it b/c they'd like to keep you at work), but also for the good of all those around you. You may be superman because you take an oil that claims to prevent the flu, a claim I find no scientifically valid references for, but not everyone around you is, namely the at risk population in your hospital.
Posted 4 months ago # -
go_ginger_go
MemberRoy: I don't work in patient care and am actually only on-site 3 hours out of 40. The rest of the time I work from home. Regardless, a lot of nurses feel the same way I do and are highly leery of this vaccination. Only a tiny percentage of direct patient caregivers who want it have even received it; it's simply not available. By the time it is, this thing will have blown over. The nurses aren't spreading it; from what we're experiencing, the true incubator is the schools.
Bayou: Actually, yes. :) Here are Mark's thoughts on the matter.
http://www.marksdailyapple.com/how-not-to-get-swine-flu/Posted 4 months ago # -
erik.cisler
MemberOnTheBayou, I'm not sure if I detect sarcasm, but hand washing and Vitamin D supplementation (whether by sun or by capsule) are almost certainly protective measures one can take, vaccine or no, to avoid influenza. There's credible circumstantial evidence that Vit. D deficiency is actually the primary antagonist (cloudy, sunless winter, when serum D is at its lowest in people, is flu season, while in the tropics, flu incidence seems to spike during the rainy season).
The Vitamin D council has some interesting stuff on the flu/D connection, too: http://www.vitamindcouncil.org/newsletter/vitamin-d-and-h1n1-swine-flu.shtml
Or, if you're worried about "biased" sources (as if anyone's gonna get rich selling cheap Vitamin D3), here's the Scientific American's report on a study showing those with a deficiency were more likely to get the cold or flu: http://www.scientificamerican.com/blog/60-second-science/post.cfm?id=vitamin-d-deficiency-linked-to-more-2009-02-23
Most doctors will mention the hand washing thing, and I wish more would mention Vitamin D. Alas, it gets no serious attention. Those with respiratory diseases and compromised immune systems should probably get the vaccine just to make sure, but if you're otherwise healthy (and eating Primal) a good serum D level should suffice.
But yes, the hysteria over the vaccine is a little ridiculous. It may not be necessary for most of us, but it's not going to kill you.
Posted 4 months ago # -
LPCRoy
MemberWhile hand washing is most definetly effective against spreading most sicknesses and has been a staple of modern medicine and public health, it does appear that it may not be enough to prevent the spread of H1N1, I ran into this last month.
http://www.newsweek.com/id/215435
It looks like H1N1 may spread mainly by air, but then another article I read (but can't find now) stated that since it causes diarrhea unlike most flus, touch could be an important transmission vehicle. This is why it's easier to buy bunk...science is hard and people disagree!
Point being, keep washing your hands (just as the CDC recommends), but don't think it completely protects you.
The Vitamin-D research is interesting as a preventative measure for the at risk people...yet another reason for me to use my sunlamp during the winter! But I would NOT follow the advice of the Vitamin D salesman! His "cure" dosage is 4x the level that will produce toxicity!
http://www.merck.com/mmpe/sec01/ch004/ch004k.html#sec01-ch004-ch004k-BABBBEAE
Vitamin D is fat soluable which means you can, in fact, get too much of it. 50k IU/day over a sustained period of time will be toxic...I wouldn't dare take 200k IU/day unless under the supervision of a medical professional.
Posted 4 months ago # -
LPC - Yes, mucus / cough spray is a huge transmission factor along with surface bacteria which can live anywhere from 2 to 8 hours.
Hand washing, avoiding those who are hacking up a lung, not touching our faces/eyes/mouth, and covering your cough are still some of the best things we all can do.
Posted 4 months ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberI take 6000 IU's of D daily, plus all this Florida sunshine, so it's not like I don't appreciate how it might help me in life.
Taking care of two ancient, frail people, I wash my hands a LOT.
I'm just saying that if you think those two things and eating primally will be as effective as vaccination, you are wrong, whoever "you" might be.
I'm neither in a high risk group, nor am I in crowded public places a lot, and I have a generally optimistic attitude about being healthy. BUT, if I was in high risk, and there was plenty of vaccine, I sure as hell would get it.
"I believe in believing....." http://tinyurl.com/ylxb6o5
Posted 4 months ago # -
I'm an RN in a hospital, but since I work in the OR, I'm not likely to be exposed to a high-risk population. I used to get the seasonal flu shot when I worked on the inpatient floor, but I stopped getting it when I transferred to the OR. Despite being a nurse, I'm not very pro-vaccine. My kids were selectively vaccinated, and we delayed almost all the vaccines. I researched each one and made my own risk-benefit analysis.
Last year, I thought H1N1 was way over-hyped; this year, I'm not so sure. We are seeing widespread flu in most of the country, which is unheard of in October. I think it has the possibility of becoming VERY widespread. Some schools here in Vermont have closed because so many kids are out sick. What makes me most nervous is that, unlike seasonal flu which generally kills only the elderly and immunocompromised, H1N1 is hardest on young adults.
I'm going to get the vaccine as soon as I can, and so is the rest of my family. The hospital where I work offered it to staff in higher-risk areas, then they ran out, so we are all waiting for more to be available. My daughter is supposed to get it in school next week, but I'm not holding my breath - lots of school clinics are being canceled because of the shortage. I would NOT get the nasal spray, though, because it's a live vaccine.
Posted 4 months ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberGood, balanced observations, Annika.
I agree that last spring was a lot of fear and hype. A lot of epidemiologists pretty much had this predicted as things, er, died down by summer. A quite summer, then bang. Hmmmmm....just like the swine flu of 1957 and the 1918 pandemic, IIRC.
I was in Texas last April when people there started dying. The only deaths in the country at the time. I was going to get some dental work done across the border from Del Rio and my family's Nervous Nellies were freaking out because of all the deaths in Mexico. Well, let's think about this. The deaths were almost all in overcrowded, way to the south, Mexico City. No reported cases along the border. OTOH, I'm sitting 50 miles from a dead kid in San Antonio.
So, of course, I went to Cd. Acuna, had great work done again cheap, and I didn't die. Nor anyone else there.
Posted 4 months ago # -
So is the virus having a big impact in the US then? Over in the UK it's pretty much faded from news headlines, and "luckily" (completely wrong word there) has only killed people with pre-existing conditions.
However the Government decided to stop counting the number of cases diagnosed, and the illness itself is milder than the normal annual influenzas.Mind you, the weather is still mild and fine (15 degrees C where last year we had snow!) so maybe time will tell...
Posted 4 months ago #
Reply »
You must log in to post.