H1N1 Vaccine .. safe or using fear to make $$?
(143 posts) (45 voices)-
runnerchick26
MemberI am a very healthy 27 year old female - and I am 7 weeks pregnant. I have been struggling with the decision whether or not to get the Swine Flu vaccine. Of course I am in a supposed "high risk" category for flu infection, which I have been told over and over could kill me or end my pregnancy. My issue with the vaccine is - Squalene - it is an adjuvant to the H1N1 vaccine to help deliver the vaccine into the immune system. While Squalene is naturally produced by the human body - I believe it is harvested from sharks as well?- some doctors believe that when it is introduced into the human body through injection, the body is now reprogrammed to fight Squalene - naturally produced or not. Squalene is also found in the controversial anthrax vaccine which is still considered experimental on military personnel and has been linked to Gulf War Syndrome, autoimmune disease and arthritis.
It is described on the World Association for Vaccine Education website as "Too dangerous for human use, Squalene is not licensed for use in the United States. Oil adjuvants like squalene have been ordinarily used to inflict diseases in animals – for experimentation and study".
It reduces the amount of vaccine needed per dose .. Thus making the drug company’s alot more money. I would hate to make a rash decision based on fear that might have adverse lifetime effects on myself or my baby. But is it worth the possible risk for the “protection”?
Help!Posted 4 weeks ago # -
I won't be getting it! Not that I would get one ever but a first-round flu-shot kinda scares me. Round 1 - Guinea Pigs.
Posted 4 weeks ago # -
No shot for me.
Posted 4 weeks ago # -
No vaccine for me. If we were talking about tuberculosis, here, then maybe...but this is the FLU, people.
Yes, it spreads rapidly. Yes, it kills a few people. So does the seasonal flu.
I just don't think the risk of H1N1, even if you get it, is as worrisome as the risk of the vaccine. My opinion.
I think you nailed it in your post title: There is money to be made. Lots of money. And fear is a tried and true sales tactic.
Posted 4 weeks ago # -
eyeshield9
Member+1 for no shot.
I think our systems can handle this disease (as with most modern ones)...if we're in "prime/al" mode
We're far more capable than we really are, it's just these dang creations that hijack our psychs. We're tempted to trade-in our optimal condition for momentary bliss ~ nothing more than a flood of neurotransmitters. IMHO
Posted 4 weeks ago # -
Indiscreet
MemberHere's an amusing little conspiracy vid.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWGv8T0POi4&feature=player_embedded
And then there's this.
http://www.worldstarhiphop.com/videos/video.php?v=wshhkBQ5sPObB628E8LL
Posted 4 weeks ago # -
wug
MemberI work in a non-clinical role in a women's hospital, so I got it for free. I've never had much issues with vaccines. I'm sure I would have fought it off anyway, but I see is as getting to control when my body builds it's antibodies. Maybe my view of how vaccines work is a bit too simplistic?
Posted 4 weeks ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberAs usual, hype and misinformation. Not that the decision isn't individual, but one needs to go into this with a clear, non-emotional head.
1. Vaccines are NOT big business, it is not a significant revenue stream. Most seasonal flu vaccines aren't even made in the US because of the low profit. No glory compared to Viagra or statins.
2. I didn't know about Squalene, so of course, looked to Wikip for some info. As to the link with increased antibodies with Gulf War vets, it was one study only and the summary conclusion was: "It is important to note that our laboratory-based investigations do not establish that squalene was added as adjuvant to any vaccine used in military or other personnel who served in the Persian Gulf War era." A later study reported that many humans have squalene antibodies in their blood, regardless of whether or not they received squalene from a vaccination.[12]
Not exactly an incriminating indictment.
Eyeshield, I gotta tell you, and I mean no slight, but that is such an ignorant statement. Because we eat a certain way we will most assuredly shrug off illness? Most of the non-Western world was eating what we would call Primal in 1918. Did not help those millions and that flu is a kissing cousin to the swine flu.
I'd certainly get the shot.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
Ecala
MemberI don't think that was an ignorant statement at all! OTB sometimes you are such a know-it-all! (you don't, btw)
Eating "primally" means getting the right vitamins from whole foods and fats and healthy, non-toxic sources (if you're doing it right that is). Also by avoiding toxins, sugar & other poisonous things (like flu shots!!)
That is basically why I feel comfortable knowing I will probably not get the flu-- swine or seasonal. Because I take care of myself. I don't get colds - I haven't had the flu in probably over 10 years. I don't get sick! Knock on wood!
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
I got the seasonal flu vaccine for free through my workplace but probably will not get the H1N1 vaccine. I don't feel it's right for myself, a healthy adult, to get that vaccine when those with more risk cannot get it due to shortages.
Unfortunately, just because you're healthy as a horse doesn't mean you're not at risk. There's so many factors at play with each and every person's risk of exposure through contact, living environment, and working condition.
Now, that said, I feel those living and eating primally have a better chance to recover more quickly from flu and illness. This has been my case for the past few years. I may get sick, but I'm up and running quickly.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
Diana Renata
MemberNo shots for me. I've never had a flu shot and I don't intend to ever get one. I've not had the flu in nearly a decade.
The thing people don't realize with this flu shot stuff, and I wish I could remember where I learned this- when you get the flu shot during flu season, you're put yourself at risk of actually getting the flu because the vaccine temporarily distracts your immune system, makeing you susceptable to getting sick. In reality, people should be getting the flu shot earlier in the year, not when they're most at risk of getting sick.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
eyeshield9
Member@OTB
None taken.
However I still maintain that we're far more capable if we don't self-compromise our immune systems. 1918? Most ate primal then? According to the wiki article it started in China, wasn't rice a staple there since 9000 years ago? I'm no expert, maybe you've read studies on this or something, do cite?
Given that CVD factors, diabetes, even cancer ~ all modern-day illnesses ~ can be slowed or reversed by eating primaly, I'll stick to my beliefs, not that we're invulnerable to illness, just that our chances lower drastically on its own (sans shot).
@Ecala
Curious, 10 years no illness? Have you been primal that whole time? I've only started ~ July'09. None since then though.Posted 3 weeks ago # -
Ecala
MemberEyeshield-- I've had a couple of colds here and there (actually went close to 2 years without one). But the 10 years statement was in reference to not having the flu. I'm sure it's been longer to tell the truth, but overall I don't get sick. Knock on wood!
No, I've only been eating this way for approx a year'ish but I've always ate relatively healthy I think.
I agree, keep your immune system stoked, and you'll ward off a lot of viruses and bugs that come your way. I don't see how that wouldn't be an obviously conclusion ??
Hmmm margarine started making more of an appearance around the early 1900s. Actually according to wiki margarine became very popular in the late 1910s. I'm not saying that margarine caused that flu then but I'm not saying that it didn't contribute to poor health either.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
maba
MemberI was just talking to the hubs about this. Since he's a healthcare worker, it's mandatory for him :( I wish he didn't have to take it considering this is the first batch and god know how rigorous, or lack thereof, the testing has been. He already got his regular seasonal flu-shot.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
LPCRoy
MemberI would really read up on this if I were you. The Vaccine is just as safe as any other flu vaccine that's ever been produced since WWII. The same process is used, they just train it with a different strain. Also, it's MUCH easier for them to vaccinate against a pandemic flu instead of seasonal flu b/c there is 1 big uber strain as opposed to thousands of variations that have to be chosen between.
Pregnant women are among the highest risk group that should be vaccinated.
It really is a shame that the H1N1 vaccine has brought the vaccine controversy back to the forefront. Read this month's wired http://www.wired.com/magazine/2009/10/ff_waronscience . It really is quite dangerous...diseases like whooping cough are resurfacing in areas where vaccination is frowned upon like the bay area....Polio was on track to be wiped off the face of the planet just like Small Pox was until a rumor spread around Nigeria that the vaccine caused infertility, and now Nigeria exports most of the world's Polio. These rumors are far from harmless, they kill people. As noted before, vaccines are hardly big business...Big Pharma doesn't want to be in that industry b/c they make very little money and are open to big class actions law suits, so why bother. As it turns out, science can do some good in this world.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
I won't be getting it. I've never had a flu shot and I don't intend to start with all the hype surrounding this year's flu either.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
void_provocateur
MemberAnother wired article: http://www.wired.com/geekdad/2009/10/h1n1-yes-you-should-vaccinate-your-kids/
Vaccines have virtually no profit margin. That's why big pharma doesn't advertise them. They are made by mandate from govt. and are only paid barely enough for the trouble, but their incentive to get it right is to lose business with the biggest clients in the world (US govt. UN etc)
Swine flu vaccine isn't necessary for most but those in the danger zone age-range. The rest of us would probably survive it. Though to be fair the real danger in not getting vaccinated is getting sick and passing it to someone who can't defend themselves. (which is my only objection to those who refuse to get their kids the regular vaccines and put my kids in danger until they reach the age where they can get all their shots.)
Either way my point is that of all and any reasons to deny vaccines (not just H1N1, but all) the only strange reasons to not get them are the, "it's not needed, it's for profit" and the "it causes autism excuse"<-- that particular myth has been put down so many times and in so many ways but it just won't die. But that's for another forum and another day.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
OnTheBayou
Membervoid, there is a 4 page thread here on childhood vaccinations, yes or no. What amazed me is not so much the "No!" quotient, but that said posters could NOT see that they are benefiting from most everyone else getting the vaccines! Just total disconnect and denial.
Nor could they see that they then become vectors to start respreading diseases long thought pretty much historical.
Talk about denial, not just science or honest opinion.
@karlin, who is "We?" Your family? Has it been positively identified as H1N1? And after that, if it is H1N1, you wouldn't want a simple, safe, inexpensive way of not getting it? I do not get it.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
runnerchick26
MemberDon't get me wrong - I agree with vaccine in general - My child will receive all necessary childhood vaccinations - maybe not all at once - but he/she will receive them. I had spinal meningitis as a child - a serious illness is nothing any parent should have to go through with their child – especially if it is preventable.
My issue with the H1N1 vaccine is the squalene - I have heard through the grapevine there are preservative and adjuvant free vaccines available…you just have to find and request them.
So it seems the only feasible reason adjuvants are in the vaccine is to get as much out and at as little cost as possible - damaging effects or not – why not make them all that way?
I am definitely between a rock and a hard place.. however if I can get a dose without the crazy (and I feel unnecessary) additives, I would feel comfortable getting the vaccine. I could never forgive myself if I did get the flu and it compromised my pregnancy.Posted 3 weeks ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberSee my comments on Squalene above, or go to wiki. Grapevines are not exactly reliable sources for science.
An adjuvant is not an "extender," to make it cheaper. It is a necessary component to make it work at all. The ARE all made that way.
No rocks, no hard places, it's just a flu vaccine.
Posted 3 weeks ago # -
Its perfectly valid to say that eating a certain way will help to prevent disease, since most of our immune system is in the gut. eating sugar suppresses the immune system. Squalene wouldnt be the only thing to bother me on top of my list would be thimerosol and formaldehyde.
I wont be getting any flu shots any time soon. I will be diligently taking vit d, getting exercise, avoiding sugar, and crowded places.
Posted 3 weeks ago #
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