Anyone out there read "The Vegetarian Myth"?
(26 posts) (15 voices)-
Griff
MemberI just read something appalling, but it sounds true to me, the same way that Primal sounds true to me, because it's supported by scientific facts.
Here's the money quote (page 125-126, paperback version).
"We're asking the wrong question. It's for the right reasons: we want a just world where every last child is fed. But our species overshot a long time ago and *it can't be done.* In the end, phantom carrying capacity can produce only ghosts, and they will be hungry ones. We're using up fossil acres, harvesting sunlight that's been stored away for thousands of years. Once it's gone, there won't be any more. "Facts are not repealed by refusal to face them," writes Catton. We - human race we - are going to have to face the facts if we have any hope of easing our way toward true sustainability while valuing human rights and preserving civic order. The alternative is a grim and ugly scenario of mass starvation, plagues, racial and tribal strife, misogyny, fundamentalism, and accelerating ecosystem collapse."
I strongly recommend this book. You will be shocked. (And it will give you some strong comebacks to people who say "but eating meat isn't sustainable!")
Posted 4 months ago # -
klcarbaugh
MemberHaha. LOVE that idea Tarlach. I tell people that we need something to wipe a lot of us out since the earth has way to many of us destructive little buggers. Always make people freak out.
It would be nice if it was quick and painless though (i.e. AIDS is doing the best job so far but I have a friend who had AIDS and it is a miserable existence... he is such an optimistic guy though and his T cell count is practically normal)Posted 4 months ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberI think the UN demographers put peak population at about 9 billion about 40 years out and then slowly declining. It's based on economic development and education levels. The best contraceptive is a well educated woman! Italy, Japan, and Russia are already below replacement levels, I think.
http://www.freetheanimal.com has a very good review of the book. I almost feel like I've read it!
Posted 4 months ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberThat's the beauty of education of women. No one has to decide who gets the firing squad, it's just not replacing those that die.
Sort of like corporate downsizing by not hiring but on a global scale!
What I find fascinating is that unspoken, so far, will be a whole new economy. Growth of business by increased population will disappear, except for local shifts. Real estate and other resources will LOSE value and could conceivably, ultimately, become a burden for owners.
This has already happened in Detroit, where for years people have just walked away from their homes. Ultimately, the city has to pay for demolition to avoid having them burn up, become crack houses, etc. Better a vacant lot than blight.
I'm not sure how many were vegetarians.......(Trying to get back on track.)
Posted 4 months ago # -
Katt
MemberEducation is a must for both women AND men. But women, as the childbearers, really should be first priority, IMO. Education among the poor is especially vital.
The problem I see when you mandate childbirth by governmental decree, is that it can lead to some serious potential abuses of the system down the road. Also, there are cultures/religions that believe that preventing childbirth is against (insert version of deity here)'s commands. Other cultural systems gain benefits from having more hands to work fields, or more mouths to feed to get benefits.
Third world populations are booming, while first world populations are slowing. Unfortunately, the third world makes up the majority.
Posted 4 months ago # -
chocolatechip69
MemberIn Iran, all women are required to stay virgins until marriage. It doesn't matter how long the woman has to wait for the wedding, so when she finally does get married the child birth in the family are an overwhelming event.
Like Katt mentioned, this situation is very different from culture to culture and I doubt that we all would be able to confirm to the same standards.
Posted 4 months ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberCC, education is not gender symmetrical. Educated men have just as many kids as uneducated, historically. It's only when the women get an education, do birthrates drop. There are a number of reasons, from realizing that they are no longer a doormat to delayed marriage and childrearing since they don't need a man for economic reasons.
Posted 4 months ago # -
SerialSinner
MemberReligion would also play a very important role in overpopulation. Secular societies tend to have a way lower birth rate than theocracies.
I think CC and OTB have a good point. It could be argued that average men are hardwired to breed with anything that moves, and that average women, risking to be abandoned and having to carry the physiological burden of pregnancy by themselves, are hardwired to be more picky.
The empowerment of women would probably result in lower birth rates. And anything contributing to the secularization of societies would also help a lot.
Posted 4 months ago # -
primalpanda
MemberSomething else to note is that in many cultures, men are already educated but women aren't, and it's entirely a power and control issue. Just as peasants were prevented from reading the bible when it was written in Latin, women can be kept at the bottom of the power structure. Also, consider those cultures where educated women are more likely to make decisions based on the health and well-being of women and children, unlike the men in power.
Men and women are both responsible for producing a child, but to have the education and knowledge necessary to take control over one's own body is essential and empowering.
Posted 4 months ago # -
SerialSinner
MemberFunding organizations promoting Christian Science could help as well.
Posted 4 months ago # -
robinbrooke
MemberI think a place to start when we want to feed the planet is to look at the reasons that people aren't able to get enough to eat. Some areas are arid and cannot support their populations. However, it seems to me that a lot of the famines and general malnourishment find their cause in human evil and greed. For example, some of the poorest people in the world, Haitian peasants from the central plateau of Haiti became landless because their land was appropriated for a dam. They didn't even get electricity from the dam which was built to benefit the only the cream of the crop. And then there was some sort of pig disease so the U.S. had all their creole pigs killed and replaced with regular pigs, who basically couldn't flourish there. So all they were left with was hardly arable land and few animals, no wonder they have nothing to eat.
I don't think the whole world could go primal, but I think that we can do a much better job supporting the population if we are willing to address injustice and war as a cause of malnutrition and global poverty. A lot of people are getting screwed over so a small global elite can enjoy a very comfortable lifestyle. The African kid in a village uses a whole lot less resources, with his garden, family cow, and cooking fire, than an American kid who fits into a whole social structure that requires foreign oil, cell phone minerals that have to be extracted in war zones, and all kinds of resource consumption.Posted 4 months ago # -
OnTheBayou
MemberI'm with ya, Robin. The causes of hunger and poverty weave a cloth that is hard to find the threads in. I believe culture is a huge factor in the well being of people. I break with my liberal friends, all cultures are not equal (in results.)
Take the island of Hispanola. The western (I think) half is Haiti. Dirt poor as we all know, deforested, everyone is trying to leave. The other half is the Dominican Republic. Poor by our standards, but not shabby by third world standards. I've heard that the border between the two is stark; trees and no trees.
So there is an island with the same land, the same climate, and two very different outcomes. Maybe it's because the DR makes all major league baseballs?
Posted 4 months ago # -
I've read the book. It is an important thing to read. I've been down the Primal road 2 years+, always evolving and growing. "The Vegetarian Myth" was an all-encompassing paradigm shift for me. I'll make it a point to re-read annually. I've loaned my copy out a fair bit. One of the most important successes I've had in converting people over to the Primal way of living, involved my 16 year old nephew reading "The Vegetarian Myth". He now possesses knowledge and the resolve to implement it for his lifetime. He's got a few other high school buddies heading down this path as well.
THAT is where our future, the human races' future, lies. Getting this info out and getting it applied. "The Vegetarian Myth" is certainly THE single book to read if a person wants to understand the full import of the Primal way of life.
Posted 4 months ago # -
I read it this weekend. I didn't want to put it down, but had to read it a little bit at a time. Lots of great stuff there: I was shocked to discover that the Middle East was once dense with topsoil & vegetation. I guess I thought it was always a desert, and that civilizations sprung out of the desert. It looks that way in the movies.
The chapter on nutrition was devastating. A lot of stuff is familiar, but there is very bad news for vegans. I have tried veganism, but never went more than a week or two without eating meat. Also, I fed one of my babies soy formula, which I sorely regret. I've been trying to get my wife to read some of the things I've been reading; the Nutritional Vegetarian chapter was one of the best short explanations of the detriments of a grain-based diet that I've seen. I'd settle for her just reading that one chapter.
Posted 4 months ago # -
maba
MemberJust finished reading this book. I loved it. Lierre Keith is such a wonderful writer. The moral and political vegetarianism chapters are written with so much emotion and passion and the one on nutritional vegetarianism with a lot of scientific citation, is eye-opening.
Posted 2 months ago # -
I have no yet read the book, but only because I can't find it. My local bookstore doesn't carry it. Although, I did have the pleasure of meeting Lierre at another talk where we got to talk about agriculture and some inter-related subjects. It wasn't until after I got home that I realised she was THAT Lierre Keith.
Posted 2 months ago #
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