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  1. #51
    namelesswonder's Avatar
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    NVM, don't want to take part in this conversation.
    Last edited by namelesswonder; 12-29-2013 at 07:53 AM.
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    Nameless you kind of read me wrong, but that's okay. I will respect your decision to not take a part of this convo.
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  3. #53
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    Most people are not being forced to sit in front of the tv and eat junk food all day.
    I will agree that most obesity is related to bad eating habits, and people need to be accountable for that. But it doesn't mean someone shovels food in their mouth all day in front of the TV. I think a lot of fat acceptance is about changing that stereotype-some fat people exercise, they are out and about, they aren't lazy, they are good employees etc. They just fuck up their health in a more visible way than the drug user, alcoholic or smoker.

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  4. #54
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    I think it's absolutely ok to discriminate, it's what we do naturally, it's why homogenous societies were widely preferred. Forcing an ideology of "tolerance" on everyone else is in fact intolerant. You don't have to like it, as I don't like liberal tolerance, but everyone should be allowed freedom of opinion. Objective morality doesn't exist. If you're really progressive and tolerant, you would tolerate someone who doesn't tolerate your political views.
    Time is passing so quickly. Right now, I feel like complaining to Einstein. Whether time is slow or fast depends on perception. Relativity theory is so romantic. And so sad.

  5. #55
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    I think it's absolutely ok to discriminate
    I agree, and it is equally OK to try and promote yourself/dispel stereotypes/take pride in who you are or try and promote/make trendy/make more acceptable, aspects about yourself.

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  6. #56
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    I don't know a single person that wakes up every morning and says.... I'm going to strive to be obese today. I spent 9 years as a vegan who ate no wheat or sugar for those 9 years. After that I ate low carb for 10 years and walked a 5k 5-7 times a week. I weighed over 225 for most of my adult life. Fat vegan, fat low carb, constant exerciser.

    Most judge but don't care about why/how a person got fat. It's assumed that we ate to being stuffed, continually. Yes, I had medical issues, but you wouldn't know that because you saw only fat and could care less because I became a non person to you unless I was annoying you. I'm far happier today in my size 8 jeans than I was in size 22. I still exercise 5-7x a week and love how much easier it is on my body. I'm a lucky one to have escaped morbid obesity. Not everyone is so lucky.

    If you have white skin, your thoughts on Affirmative Action don't mean jack to me. I grew up privledged white. I raised a brown skinned son. I worried that he'd get pulled over at 2am on a Sunday morning, just because of the color of his skin.

    Why is it so hard to be kind to each other? WTF discussing fat Barbies on MDA. Why not discuss starting neighborhood programs where kids can play outdoors and run around safely as an alternative to being couped up inside with video games while both parents work to try to survive these brutal times. Childhood obesity is an important topic. Let's be part of the solution, not part of the problem. Yup, I'm part of the 60's where we sat in jail for things like Affirmative Action and hopeful equality regardless of race, sex or religion.

  7. #57
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    I would say that I have a huge problem with equating things like gender or race with obesity.....if these reasons have to be fully explained, I don't know what to do for you. Affirmative action has about as much to do with fat-acceptance as throwing rocks does to asteroids hitting the planet. That is an outlandish equivalency.

    The fact that it is NOT openly ridiculous to make such a one-to-one is further proof of just how off the reservation political correctness has gone, in that by its very definition there is no boundary to its domain....under this thinking, almost anything can be taken as cause of sympathy and societal action, regardless of its merits of actual discrimination. Being shorter or taller than average, of any descent but white Protestant, being from a non-legacy family, having large or small noses, it could go on forever. Everyone gains the ability to write their own sob story of prejudice.

    The reality is that society has to understand that there are TWO distinct kind of personal outlier:
    1) Differences of purely genetics, with ZERO choice involved: race, disability, gender, sexual orientation, age.
    2) Differences that are a mix of the factors above and choices: hair style, education level, obesity, clothing, articulation, writing ability, pretty much EVERYTHING ELSE that makes us different.

    To be against political correctness, as I am, is not to say that discrimination in regards to #1 does not occur.....it is saying that it is patently absurd, and likely socially damaging, to give the same allowances for #2 as those things about us which are unchangeable. Recognizing and accommodating changes in society that we cannot change about each other makes us civilized, compassionate, different from Medieval Europe or parts of the modern Middle East where overt subjugation of everything in #1 is commonplace and accepted......equating these things with #2 makes us lack any definable cultural norms, which undermines any standards we would have toward behavior. This makes us have NO culture, no norms at all, and that lack of any boundary is a pretty terrifying prospect. We are already seeing it now.

    So no, there should not be a fat Barbie, anymore than there should be an impossibly portioned Barbie, as both of these reinforce a societal norm which is unhealthy and unnatural.....the larger issue of fat acceptance though has recently started to fall under the PC banner, with sad and unhealthy results.

    In reading The Fall of the Roman Empire, you will run into the same message over and over in it.....he says, and proves through countless examples, a singular facet of a culture that lets you know it is in decline. Here it is: A culture is in decline when even plainfully destructive memes, things that are obviously damaging and toxic to the culture, are accepted as normal.

    We see that in a million different places now. The corruption of politics, popular culture (twerking on national TV, anyone?), disasterous health of the population with no widespread response, military spending, and the aforementioned rampant advance of political correctness....no, it is not okay and normal to be 35% bodyfat. No, it is not normal to need heart surgery at 50 years old. No, humans are not supposed to be sick and lethargic with bodies like cookie dough. We have lost an ability to even name a standard, and it is ALL connected. It isn't about fat acceptance. It is about acceptance of things about our culture that are obviously unnatural and toxic. It's pathetic.

    Next time, I will explain how I really feel
    "They now look to a single and splendid government of an aristocracy, founded on banking institutions, and moneyed incorporations under the guise and cloak of their favored branches of manufactures, commerce and navigation, riding and ruling over the plundered ploughman and beggared yeomanry." - Thomas Jefferson, 1826

  8. #58
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    .no, it is not okay and normal to be 35% bodyfat. No, it is not normal to need heart surgery at 50 years old. No, humans are not supposed to be sick and lethargic with bodies like cookie dough.
    My neighbor stayed proudly thin via coke, adderal, diet mountain dew and starving. Not sure she did her heart any favors but she looked good. Ironically, in my time as a fat person, some of the nicest people were genuinely fit and wanted to help my health. The nastiest....haha, binge drinkers, smokers, drug abusers. Most people don't hate fat people because they might need more health resources, they hate them because they find them unattractive or need someone to be mean to.

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  9. #59
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    [QUOTE=

    Next time, I will explain how I really feel [/QUOTE]

    I look forward to that as I value your opinion whether it agrees with mine, or not.

  10. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Graycat View Post
    Which one of these is not like the others?
    Seeing as size, gender, class, and religion can all be changed, I would say the only one that isn't like the others is race.

    Now that you brought up gender, race, class, culture and religious acceptance, I should say that none of those factors imo determine specific person's 'worth or value', or that anyone should be discriminated against based solely on any of them. With that being said, what do you think of Affirmative Action?
    Affirmative action is designed -- and does well in -- decreasing discrimination against minority groups in terms of opportunities in the work place, etc, when all parties applying for the position are of equal merit.

    I know that a lot of people like to consider it reverse discrimination against white males -- but that's usually a privilege-focused response.

    Being obese is a personal choice 99.9% of the time. Period.
    Nothing like an imaginary statistic emphatically stated.

    The fact of the matter is that the causes are diverse and actual definitions are constantly shifting.

    Most people are not being forced to sit in front of the tv and eat junk food all day. People who are doing that should own up to their actions and stop blaming others for making them fat and sick.
    I know a lot of "skinny" people who do this, and a lot of "obese" people who do not do this. So, I can have anyone own up to their poor habits in eating and activity, but their *body* doesn't indicate what the situation *is* for that person. The only thing that does is the observation of their actions.

    And if someone feels prejudice towards such people, well, can they be blamed?
    Yes, and for that matter, why would anyone waste their energy entertaining prejudice against people making their own (poor) health decisions?

    For me, I can accept people as people. When you accept someone as they are, right in front of you, then you have opportunity.

    If you are prejudiced against them, then really, all you do is demonstrate how really mean you are. It's honestly mean.

    And, acceptance and tolerance are two different things.

    I'm not "forcing" anyone to tolerate anything. I'm just asserting the possibility of real acceptance and the opportunities that it provides.

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