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  1. #21
    jasperb's Avatar
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    Excellent post from lazarus.

  2. #22
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    Tell me more about this young couple who have to walk a trail to get to their home. That's what I want to have. Where do you find a place that will allow that?
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    I can squat 180lbs, press 72.5lbs and deadlift 185lbs

  3. #23
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    TheyCallMeLazarus is offline Senior Member
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    @ SB

    The guy is about as "Vermont Stereotype" as you could get....a big black beard, huge glasses, wears a lot of plaid, hands that when you shake them it feels like you are grabbing a leather jacket that was left outside for several months. His wife is actually very pretty, to the point that I'm sure a lot of people double-take when they are together. It looks like this dainty princess walking around with a guy that eats bark She cleans a rabbit though faster than I have ever seen. It goes from rabbit to meat in about 25 seconds. I timed her. Beautiful.

    Their home is actually off of a snowmobile trail, called the VAST here, so in the winter they leave their truck at the road, snowmobile to the house, then walk up the hill. Keep in mind they have a toddler, with another on the way.They are hardcore.

    Mainly, you have to buy land that is open-zoning. Up where I am, this is probably 90% of it, but I know that in a lot of cities and suburbs there are a lot of rules....they will actually FORCE YOU to hook it into the grid, get municipal water, all to fit their "zoning" requirement. No one mentions this in all of their "freedom" talk. I understand the need for strict zoning within a city, but a lot of it is wanting to force even rural areas to get in line....here we don't have that problem. My state representative from my area lives on a 100+ acre apple farm with no electricity.

    1) Buy a piece of open-zoning land. It will usually be really cheap, because very few people want land with nothing nearby. I recently bought 55 acres for 36k, as I plan on putting a hunting cabin up there.
    2) Find a contractor that builds material homes. This means they will supply only the materials needed to build the home, and you get the actual builder separately. This will save a LOT of money, especially if you are able to do some of it yourself or have any friends in construction. Even without that, a straight builder won't cost that much compared to what most people pay for a finished house.
    3) Build a well and get a power source. Clear some space if you need for the house.

    I used these two companies for my land and home. Obviously I don't know the reputable people in CA, but I can't imagine these kind of companies don't exist:
    Land for Sale, Vermont Farms for Sale, Vermont Ranches for Sale, Acreage - Vermont
    Coventry Log Homes | Log Homes, Log Home Kits, &amp Prices | Website

    Best decision I ever made.
    "Man is born free.....but everywhere he is in chains."

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    And, examining hunting, is it fair to use a gun? If we take it further, shouldn't the most advanced method we use be a cross bow? And what about the elderly or disabled? If unable to hunt, no meat for them?
    Some hunters use bows to make it more challenging (fun for them), but it's better for the animal to use a gun. It's common for a whitetail hit with an arrow to run for hundreds of yards before bleeding to death. All the ones I've hit with my .30-06 haven't moved.

    And good post, Lazarus, as usual.
    In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock.

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  5. #25
    JoanieL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jefferson1775 View Post
    Some hunters use bows to make it more challenging (fun for them), but it's better for the animal to use a gun. It's common for a whitetail hit with an arrow to run for hundreds of yards before bleeding to death. All the ones I've hit with my .30-06 haven't moved.

    And good post, Lazarus, as usual.
    I really was just making a point. I honestly have no issues whatsoever with hunting for food. Or fishing, or non-CAFO farming. To me they are just different ways to bring food to table. However, the whole "morality" thing about veganism makes my ass hurt. If a person honestly believes that veganism is more healthy, then okay. But the moral thing is misplaced. Last I read, almost as much old growth forest has been cleared to grow soy beans as has been cleared to feedlot cows.

    Laz's posts are often filled with information in a clear concise way. I had an Ecology instructor who used to call it the Bambi complex - he was referring to something slightly different, which is people who are anti-hunting while they are totally unaware of how much of the deer population starves to death, or how CAFO animals are treated before they become steaks. I think that vegans who think they are more moral than omnivores have just as much of a disconnect with their food as people who think ground beef magically appears wrapped in plastic.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

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  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    I really was just making a point. I honestly have no issues whatsoever with hunting for food. Or fishing, or non-CAFO farming. To me they are just different ways to bring food to table. However, the whole "morality" thing about veganism makes my ass hurt. If a person honestly believes that veganism is more healthy, then okay. But the moral thing is misplaced. Last I read, almost as much old growth forest has been cleared to grow soy beans as has been cleared to feedlot cows.

    Laz's posts are often filled with information in a clear concise way. I had an Ecology instructor who used to call it the Bambi complex - he was referring to something slightly different, which is people who are anti-hunting while they are totally unaware of how much of the deer population starves to death, or how CAFO animals are treated before they become steaks. I think that vegans who think they are more moral than omnivores have just as much of a disconnect with their food as people who think ground beef magically appears wrapped in plastic.
    Yep, those are my pretty much my opinions, as well. Your average hunter will know a lot more about the wildlife than your average vegan/vegetarian/PETA/anti-hunting person.
    In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock.

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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jefferson1775 View Post
    Yep, those are my pretty much my opinions, as well. Your average hunter will know a lot more about the wildlife than your average vegan/vegetarian/PETA/anti-hunting person.
    It's often the hunters who are more passionate about conserving wildlife than almost anyone else..

  8. #28
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    Here in NZ our deer, pigs, wild goats and possums etc..... have no natural predators, so if we didnt hunt them we would have an even more serious problem than we do now. This country is overrun with wild animals, especially possums. Yes they are cute, and it scares the bejebbus out of you when they are staring you down, at night, in the middle of the road, but hell they eat out native birds eggs, and fauna and flora. I personally think that eating a pest would have to be the best use of resources.
    And no I do not hunt, i do not know how to shoot a gun, however two of our daughters are great shots and will bring me deer, rabbits etc.
    what i would like to say thou, is that guns are lethal in the wrong hands, so please PLEASE if you are wanting to learn how to process your own animals - learn from a master
    "never let the truth get in the way of a good story "

    ...small steps....

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jasperb View Post
    Excellent post from lazarus.
    +1

    I would love to live like that!

    I grew up on a farm with cow, pigs, sheep, rabbits, chickens, turkeys an orchard with apples, plums, peaches and a huge 1/2 acre garden. Walnut and almond trees that we sold the nuts from. We named our animals and slaughtered them. We canned fruit, vegetables and ate mostly what we grew. I loved that life and wish I could do it again.

    My kids grew up in suburbia. Sadness to me. As adults they get grossed out when I talk about slaughtering of animals. They do understand it, but it is not how they grew up and I feel I have done a dis service to them in that respect.
    44 F 5'5
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    CW 180.4
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  10. #30
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    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    Years ago - about 3 decades, when the farmers went on strike anyhow - my mother and I went up to Lynnhaven, MA where her parents lived, to give them a 50th wedding anniversary party. There was a run to support small farmers who were going on strike, and we got in it. Someone was doing a video, and they stopped us to interview us. We live on a farm. We were hearing people from Boston, and even my grandparent's neighbors say, "Food is manufactured. It comes from a factory. Peas and carrots and all vegetables are made in a factory, and then put in a can." They had nothing good to say about the thousands of small farmers who went on strike because they were losing their homes - their way of life. They had no idea IN REAL LIFE of where food originates. I was absolutely stunned!
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