Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 30

Thread: Killing dinner page 2

  1. #11
    Lyte's Avatar
    Lyte is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    102
    Shop Now
    If those people were meat eaters and saying "No dont kill the poor duck," they're idiots and I see your point.

    I don't agree with slaughtering animals for food unless you have to to survive.

    I'm a pescetarian and I hate eating fish (love the taste, however, just like I loved the taste of meat but still gave it up) but I do it for my health. Every time I throw a piece in the oven I consider its life and thank it for its unwilling sacrifice that will strengthen me (knowing that such thoughts likely don't matter a twit to the fish and just make me feel a little better). I also do it knowing I would not have a problem fishing (and have done so before).
    If there were better sources of protein and fat that were healthy and plant based and as effective, I would be all over that (sucks that soy turned out to be such crap).

    Having said that, if you're going to eat meat, killing it yourself and having it for dinner (or buying it directly from the farmer who butchered it) is "the way to go". I wouldn't look at a picture of a duck that said "christmas dinner" and think "Oh no, don't" but I definitely look at the meat section in conventional grocery stores and shudder. If you're going to slaughter an animal, give it a good, healthy life and some damn dignity and respect... not penned up shoulder to shoulder in a dark room where its life is essentially torture.

    That's just my 2 cents...

  2. #12
    Lyte's Avatar
    Lyte is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Maryland
    Posts
    102
    Quote Originally Posted by edennperez1 View Post
    I have NO problem eating the animals that God gave us to eat.
    When I was six years old and learned where meat came from, this is the exact argument my mom tried to use to convince me not to become a vegetarian. Didn't work on me then, definitely doesn't work now.

    Not trying to argue with you in particular, I just hate that argument as it holds absolutely no water and doesn't address the issue.

    Quote Originally Posted by edennperez1
    I'm not going to snatch my neighbors dog and roast him, just a duck or chicken or other nameless animal! LOL! I see nothing wrong with that.
    That's the problem with the meat industry today. That dog was "just a nameless animal" until someone came along and gave it a name and decided the dog should live in their house. The "nameless" animals have just as much significance to the world as the "named" ones. There is no difference. You may as well say it's not okay to kill a family member but as long as it's a stranger, get out the shotgun if they piss you off.

    These strains of thought are devoid of meaning and should never be used to justify taking life. I eat fish and do so knowing full well what I'm doing, and it pains me. I unfortunately have yet to find a balance in my personal diet where I can lose fish and still be healthy.

  3. #13
    Urban Forager's Avatar
    Urban Forager is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    2,124
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenry Hennings View Post
    Recently, I've come to the opinion that if I personally didn't kill that animal, then I won't eat it. Yeah, that makes me a vegetarian/vegan whatever, and I'm on a primal forum where everyone gets moist over meat.
    I find the removed stance we (nearly) all have to be such a destructive one. Forgetting that animals do in fact live, breath, feel emotion, and have consciousness all for the sake of the meat consumption through indiscriminate slaughter, I feel, is wrong. I've mentioned the !Kung tribe a few times before, and after every kill, a ritual of thanks takes place, but all H/G tribes honour and respect the lives they take for the rewards they bring. They don't waste a thing.
    Also, I personally think that a true primal diet doesn't have as much meat and fat as believed... I still believe meat was vital for evolution and health, just not so much. Vegetarianism, with a steak thrown in, provided I kill it. Thats what I believe to be the true 'Primal' diet.

    My 2 cents.. (Pence.. I'm in Britain!)
    I can understand and appreciate the desire to take responsibility for the food you eat but I think that eating a vegetarian diet is
    just as problematic. If you are not raising your own food, whatever you eat you will be contributing to the destruction of some life. When eating plants it's easier to mentally distance oneself from the destruction. For example if you're a vegan the foods you eat are probably not gathered in your immediate area, they are grown somewhere else and shipped to you. That system of food production and distribution is incredibly destructive to life on so many levels but when the food arrives there is no visible blood. There is no way around the fact eating involves some death. I can see avoiding meat because you're squeamish but I definitely don't think that being a vegetarian is more humane.
    Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

  4. #14
    JoanieL's Avatar
    JoanieL is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Laissez le bon temps rouler!
    Posts
    6,550
    The corporations that grow produce do just as much destruction to the planet as CAFO meat producers.

    There are many endangered livestock breeds because we don't eat them. We don't eat them, no one raises them. They're domesticated so if no one raises them, they die out. The Livestock Conservancy

    Learning to hunt is of course a worthy endeavor. As is learning to grow one's food, or anything else that improves a skill set for hardship. But let's say some folks' idea of Nirvana happened and we all grew/raised/hunted every morsel we put in our mouths. The corporations would be hurt. That's a good thing because they produce unwholesome food. But the family farmers and the ones who are doing it organically and healthfully would also be hurt.

    And, examining hunting, is it fair to use a gun? If we take it further, shouldn't the most advanced method we use be a cross bow? And what about the elderly or disabled? If unable to hunt, no meat for them?

    Is farming for one's family wrong because we take away the freedom to roam free from our domesticated livestock? I've yet to see a cow or chicken strike for better wages.

    I'm playing devil's advocate, so I'm using farfetched examples or taking things to goofy extremes. But just like I'm not going to sit in front of a sewing machine (I've done it and it's my idea of hell) to make my own clothes, I'm not going to give up the things I like about city living so I can "justify" eating animals. What else are they here for?

    Eat meat; eat vegan; hell, eat boogers if you want to. No need to justify it. The planet has much bounty to give us - from both kingdoms. While I do everything in my power to keep CAFO animals from my plate because I think they're not treated humanely, I see not much difference between an animal that gets knocked out, then hung up and killed, and one who runs in fear of its life from a hunter.

    I am absolutely not against hunting. It just seems inefficient for most of us. If it takes me 20 minutes of labor in the workforce to earn enough money for a meal, it doesn't make sense for just me to take up hunting. Others have different circumstances and hunting totally is efficient for them.

    I almost forgot. Using the whole animal. You can bet donuts to dollars that every part of the animal is used in the food industry. Blood is dried and goes into fertilizer or is used in sausages. Hides are used in various ways as are bones. Anything unpalatable to the average human is ground up for animal food. BigFood didn't get rich by wasting anything that can be sold. Again, not defending them, but food waste comes from throwing away finished product that is still palatable.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

    B*tch-lite

  5. #15
    Hannakb's Avatar
    Hannakb is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,093
    Quote Originally Posted by Lyte View Post
    If those people were meat eaters and saying "No dont kill the poor duck," they're idiots and I see your point.
    Yes they are meat eaters.

    My reply was local, organic, ethical eating.
    My stepdads reply was we know it's had a better life then the roast chicken you bought from the shops.

    Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

  6. #16
    sbhikes's Avatar
    sbhikes is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Santa Barbara
    Posts
    8,710
    That used to be my rationale for being a vegetarian that ate fish. I didn't feel capable of killing an animal, except that I had done a lot of fishing growing up so I knew I was capable of that. So I was a vegetarian that ate fish now and then.

    I suppose these days, outside the basic health concepts for eating paleo, I feel strongly about avoiding grains and soy because I do not want to support those industries. I feel bad when I support the CAFO meat producers these days, but at least I'm not contributing as much anymore to all that is wrong about corn, soy and wheat.

    I can't be perfect. I can't make myself crazy trying to be perfect either. But at least I can say no those who would poison both me and the planet with their beans and grains. And hopefully in my efforts I can say no to those in the future who would further poison me with their pills.

    Whatever. Hypocrisy abounds in all of us. At some point we just have to be human and let it go.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Highest squat: 167.5 x 2. Current Deadlift: 190 x 3

  7. #17
    Mutton's Avatar
    Mutton is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    165
    Quote Originally Posted by Jenry Hennings View Post
    I've mentioned the !Kung tribe a few times before, and after every kill, a ritual of thanks takes place, but all H/G tribes honour and respect the lives they take for the rewards they bring.
    I like the idea a lot, it would be great if we all respected the animals we eat a lot more. I don't think it necessarily follows that everyone should kill their own dinner though; I think even in very primitive tribes only certain members would perform the hunting, even if it was all the adult males etc. So the others were in a very similar position to us, in that the meat was provided by someone else. I guess, then, its our responsibility to try and make sure as best we can that the people providing are properly respecting our food on our behalf. Which brings me to the position I think a lot of people here have, which is to avoid feedlot animals etc and seek out free range etc.

  8. #18
    Urban Forager's Avatar
    Urban Forager is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2012
    Location
    Northern California
    Posts
    2,124
    This seems like an appropriate place for this link:

    Kalahari Killers - YouTube
    Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

  9. #19
    TheyCallMeLazarus's Avatar
    TheyCallMeLazarus is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Northeast Kingdom, Vermont
    Posts
    911
    I would like to think that the situation I have locally is pretty similar to what HAD been the way human food was processed and obtained for millenia....

    -- The next home down from mine, several miles away, is a younger couple with two small children. They own a chicken farm, a BIG one, and they have a lot of old fruit trees like blueberry, strawberry, etc. The wife spends a lot of time at home with the kids, thus she has a lot of fruit stuff I'd never have time to make. The husband owns a saw mill, so he is the go to for almost any building material you need.
    -- Another older couple own several cows, and it is his full-time job to milk them and raise them, some for meat.
    -- An old lady at the library makes butter, cream, and all form of processed dairy. Her cheddar is knock your socks off.
    -- Young couple that lives literally in the middle of the forest, WALKING to their home a quarter mile from the dirt path every day with a little girl, he spends almost every weekend fishing. It is pretty much his #1,#2, and #3 hobby. Ironically enough, his wife hunts a lot of small game.

    Myself, I get 2-3 commodities that none of these others can get on their own:
    1) Large game, such as bear, deer, or moose.
    2) Fowl, such as ducks, wild turkeys, grouse, etc.
    3) Rabbits. I raise them myself....

    It is pretty simple, and I think it is what humans did for a really long time: I trade these things for the other stuff I either don't have the time or knowledge to get myself. I also have a big veg garden (zero fruit, but that may change this year), and I make an effort to grow things they don't have.

    Between my own efforts and a group of about a dozen people, I can easily afford to never go to the real "store". I even grow my own herbs and spices.

    The really painful truth is not that most people are separated just from their food, which they clearly are, but that they are separated from any skills or realities that go with the natural world. Most vegetarians have not witnessed what it takes to level a field to grow something on, the death you must bring to grow much of anything, just as they cannot fathom an animal death......I have seen deer ripped into pieces, alive, by wolves and coyotes. I have walked the woods in March and seen their skelatons in rows, starving to death together 2-3 at a time.....most people are completely distanced from any semblance of connection to nature, or real nature.

    For so many city-people I know (I was one for years through school), their view of nature is this sweet honeydew of a place with frolicking animals, flowers in bloom, etc. It is compassionate, fair, humane.....for me, nature is the force that brings death, brings starvation or freezing to death, all in a BARELY equal measure to its astonishing beauty....the reality is that most people, even people that consider themselves "connected" to nature, have humanized nature. They have made it into what they want it to be, not what it truly is.

    There is a lot of high-minded talk about "Respect" for nature, but is very often their humanized nature....true respect for it comes not just in it providing for you, but in your acknowledgement that it has SPARED you, for another day at least. It comes from understanding and being able to face up to your impact on nature, the death you must walk with in order to live, not stow it in far away places or create myths about how you can magically have no impact. Without this respect from both ends, it is a fake respect to me.

    In my area, there have been many conservation studies on the lives of animals such as deer. One of the shocking things they have found, and a man named Tovar Cerulli has written brilliantly about it, is just how efficiently deadly nature truly is.....as an example, they have found that the 3-year survival rate of deer, even once hunting deaths are removed, is about 24%....Read that again. That means that 3/4 of all the cute little deer fawns do not make it to age 3. Many starve or are killed by predators.

    It is easy for a lot of people that have not spent a lot of time actually in unsheltered nature to build up this image, but I do not have to participate in that delusion. The reality is that the 2 year old male deer in my freezer downstairs had a high probability of being either eaten alive or starving/freezing to death, so my .300 bullet through his chest killing him almost instantly was a vast improvement. Humans, through an unimaginable amount of work, are able to sometimes get old with dignity and die of simple age.....nature doesn't play that game. Nature cuts your throat the second a stronger animal is around to take your place. There is no deer Medicare

    It's a paradigm of thinking that would take a novel to fully explain, but I have learned that a lot of people have no idea what nature really is. We are separated from real nature, real humanity, real skills that keep us separated from it, all to a point that will never be fully redeemed. It is all incredibly clear.

    At least here I can put these thoughts down without 100% blank stares of confusion, which is what the average vegetarian gives me.
    Last edited by TheyCallMeLazarus; 12-28-2013 at 07:34 PM.
    "They now look to a single and splendid government of an aristocracy, founded on banking institutions, and moneyed incorporations under the guise and cloak of their favored branches of manufactures, commerce and navigation, riding and ruling over the plundered ploughman and beggared yeomanry." - Thomas Jefferson, 1826

  10. #20
    Hannakb's Avatar
    Hannakb is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    1,093
    Lazarus I wish I lived in a community like that.
    The closest we have come was swapping 1kg honey for a dozen fertile eggs (8 hatched, 7 still alive, can tell 2 are roosters so far &#128523.

    Sent from my HTC_PN071 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •