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Thread: Why do doctors tell us to eat stuff that's clearly bad for us? page 7

  1. #61
    TheyCallMeLazarus's Avatar
    TheyCallMeLazarus is offline Senior Member
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    I see it as an oversimplification that metabolic disease driven healthcare costs gave us the ACA, but I don't think that's necessarily what you are saying as much as it is a major contributor....

    That said, I don't really blame the USDA guidelines of grain vs meat, and all of the CW, as the major reason behind our obesity problems. Last I checked, none of my patients ever came to me and said "Well, I followed the food pyramid to a T, and still got to be 400lbs and wildly diabetic."

    I do feel that grains, especially dwarf wheat, are major contributors to our problems.....but it must be understood that it is not that too many Americans are eating shredded wheat or stone flour bread. The problem is all of the hyper-palatable concoctions that can be made with said commodity crops. As Kimchi wrote, it is the ability to take ALL of this garbage and do the ultimately economically viable thing you can to it: boost its value.

    A carrot is still just a carrot, no matter what you do with it. Same for vegetables or fruit, outside of juicing some them there is not really any way to boost their value.....but ah, what dreams may come from the commodity crops of wheat and corn, where I can take TONS of it and dice it, boil it, add a chemistry set to it, and now it is SODA. It is a bag of Cheetos, a hamburger bun, etc. I have done the equivalent of taking iron ore and turning it into an airplane wing, making a ton of money in the process.

    This is why paleo will never be a mainstream idea. Don't look for it, don't even hope for it. There is simply not enough money to be made from telling people to eat 4 main things that cannot have value added to them: wild seafood, grass-fed humane meat, fruit and veg.....look at any of those as a businessman, and you will see that there are extremely strong "rate-limiting steps" to profit off of them. Seafood is subject to seasons and catch limits, humane meat to actual nature, same with fruit and veg.

    I have to talk about paleo to complete neophytes pretty often, so I am quick to make that distinction.....do I think that people are eating far too much spelt or barley bread, and THAT is why we have this problem? No. I don't think its particularly healthful, but its not the problem. The real monster is hyper-palatable industrial food made with commodity crops, consumed in huge quantities without any prolonged glucagonic response to ever be allowed to be established.

    But yes, Kimchi's progression there was pretty scary
    "They now look to a single and splendid government of an aristocracy, founded on banking institutions, and moneyed incorporations under the guise and cloak of their favored branches of manufactures, commerce and navigation, riding and ruling over the plundered ploughman and beggared yeomanry." - Thomas Jefferson, 1826

  2. #62
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    Doctors aren't smart. Heck, we still surgically rape 50% of the male babies in this country. We're a backwards country.

  3. #63
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    That's it, Kimchi!
    Last edited by Karyn S; 12-27-2013 at 05:13 PM.

  4. #64
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    People really do eat all over the board, but what strikes me about how we eat is the feast or famine. People are either gluttons, just shoveling in crap OR they eat nothing. We seem to lack that middle ground these days. It's either a chicken salad with 3 ounces of chicken breast OR the triple burger with French fries.

    Then weird things seem to be demonized because of fat. There was an article about eggnog and how bad it is for you with the eggs and whole milk. No mention of the sugar.....but it has 300 calories. Then the "nutritionist" suggested soy nog, which despite being fat free has some odd 200 calories in it (sugar). Then she mentioned how she can't enjoy it due to soy sensitivity.

    If you don't just full on eat crap, you've cut out fat and eat weird, sugar filled foods to make up the difference.

    It's sad because the tastiest, healthiest diet is just eating a range of real, whole foods.

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  5. #65
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    caveat: don't judge me. last night saw a clip from "toddlers and tiaras". the mother gives her 2-year-old daughter a concoction they call "pixie tea." it's mountain dew, sweet tea and pixie stix dust in a giant cup. you should have seen the kid crying and jonesing while her momager made it. "it's better than juice, which is 98% sugar anyway."

    end of times.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

    ľ Ernest Hemingway

  6. #66
    magnolia1973's Avatar
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    last night saw a clip from "toddlers and tiaras". the mother gives her 2-year-old daughter a concoction they call "pixie tea." it's mountain dew, sweet tea and pixie stix dust in a giant cup. you should have seen the kid crying and jonesing while her momager made it. "it's better than juice, which is 98% sugar anyway."
    And mom will be pissed when kid gets fat and will put her on some crazy ass diet.

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  7. #67
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    What blows my mind is my family, specifically my sister's girl children. One is 22 years old. This is the first time I have ever seen her eat anything other than white bread and spaghetti-ohs. Her little sister is 12 and she is the same. She will only eat plain noodles or bread. Both of them look like ballerinas. How can you even grow a human being from a diet like this, let alone two beautiful ones? Somehow it happened though. At least the 22-year-old provides hope because she's finally grown out of it.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
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  8. #68
    oxide's Avatar
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    I can't agree with Kimchi that this was a conspiracy theory planned in advance, at least not in the beginning. More likely, the industry was just responding to each good result with another layer of processing, always in the direction of more Value Added, as Lazarus says. High f¨cktose corn syrup was invented to make cranberry juice cheaper during a sugar embargo. Once invented, it was used to sweeten everything else into a processed food. Ditto for dwarf hybrid wheat. They didn't cross-breed the wheat to sell diabetes drugs; they wanted a strain that would grow faster -- you can even grow it on cheap land in cold Canada --, use less fertilizer, and not gum up the harvester. They certainly weren't going to give up the soybean oil and waste a soy subsidy.

    I don't believe that the industry "launched" the idea that meat or saturated fat was bad. I believe that the idea was launched by vegetarians, Ancel Keys, and others. However, the industry USED that idea, heavily, to promote their own products, and they continue using that idea to sell their sweet, addictive, palatable products. It's too hard and too expensive for them to switch back. It's much easier to send an army of lawyers to attack William Davis. And on the consumer side, it's easier to accept that a Size 14 is a "real woman," or to buy Thank-Goodness-It-Fits pantyhose, or to try to sell pills and exercise equipment. I mean really, which farmer's market is going to buy commercial time on Dr. Oz?

    Didn't we see something similar with smoking? Long after they knew cigarettes caused lung cancer, the tobacco companies covered and resisted the truth. Yet, there are still smokers today...

    I don't think our society will ever be Paleo. At best, we may see some real government studies where dwarf hybrid wheat is PROVEN to cause acid reflux or diabetes in most (not all*) of the population, to where we can get a Black Box on a loaf of bread same as it is on a pack of cigs. Even then, people will still buy the stuff because they don't know einkorn wheat from modern wheat. After all, we've been eating "wheat" for 10,000 years... have you ever tried to explain to someone that, no, we haven't been eating this "wheat" for 10,000 years? I've tried, and had a high rate of failure. It just takes too many sentences, and people run away long before then.

    On a side note, Lazarus, grocers HAVE found a way to Add Value to a carrot. The frozen veggie aisle used to be just that, frozen carrots, or at most, a pea/carrot mix. Now, half the aisle is filled pre-processed veggie "side dishes" like soybean oil "sauces" or "steamer bags" that you can pop right into the nuker, or come in kits with sauce packets and you add your own processed meat. And oh, those value added bags sell 10 ounces of carrots for the same price as a 16 ounce bag of plain-jane carrots. Evidently it's too much effort to open a bag and slice a pat of butter yourself!


    ----------
    *you're always going to have that anecdote where someone eats wheat and never gets fat, or the 27-year-olds who eat all sort of junk and stay thin. Yeah, so what. We've always had the knowledge that smokers usually don't get lung cancer until they are 60, or the story of Uncle Joe who smoked two packs a day and lived to be 90. We have to go with the majority of the population.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

  9. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxide View Post
    I can't agree with Kimchi that this was a conspiracy theory planned in advance, at least not in the beginning. More likely, the industry was just responding to each good result with another layer of processing, always in the direction of more Value Added, as Lazarus says. High f¨cktose corn syrup was invented to make cranberry juice cheaper during a sugar embargo. Once invented, it was used to sweeten everything else into a processed food. Ditto for dwarf hybrid wheat. They didn't cross-breed the wheat to sell diabetes drugs; they wanted a strain that would grow faster -- you can even grow it on cheap land in cold Canada --, use less fertilizer, and not gum up the harvester.
    Actually, the primary goal of wheat hybridization since the beginning of the agricultural revolution has always been to improve its breadmaking characteristics. That means more gluten.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott F View Post
    I went to my dermatologist (I see him every 6 months for a check up). My wife took my daughter to him for acne. He put her on accutane and "the pill". I see as him and my wife doing an experiment on my daughter. My daughter is now 22 and has to take a thyroid med every day for hypothyroidism, and an antibiotic because she still has acne. I wonder if the accutane was related. Her OB sent her to a different dermatologist (in the same clinic). I'm told this doctor follows paleo. After her first visit, as she was leaving, this doctor told her, "I'm one of a very few doctors who will tell you this, but if you go on a low carb diet, cut the carbs, you'll probably get rid of you pollycysts.

    I tried to bring up nutrition to my (her former) dermatologist in regards to acne and he immediately put nutrition down as having anything to do with acne and brought up this: Twinkie diet helps nutrition professor lose 27 pounds - CNN.com. That's when I fired back at him what you read in my sig (below). The nurse chuckled. "There's no report of Eskimos having acne until one generation after adopting a Western diet. Can you explain that?"
    I ran into the low carb acne treatment by accident (because you sure won't hear about it in a Dr's office). DD had pretty bad acne that wasn't responding to any topical treatment. Doxycycline controlled it fairly well, at least kept the scarring type of outbreaks to a minimum, but I was just sick at the thought of choosing between years of oral antibiotics or permanent scars.

    Then she decided to try some Victoria's Secret model's low carb diet. Except she ended up replacing all of her grainy snacks with fruit and just cutting bread and cereal from her breakfast and lunch, so she's lower carb than a junk food junky, but rarely under 100g. What she actually ended up doing is reducing her gluten consumption by 75% or so. Her acne is gone! She's experimented with eating more and then less gluten and her flare ups correlate almost perfectly with indiscriminate gluten consumption.

    How many millions of kids are taking antibiotics or poisons like Accutane because nobody wants to say, "Step away from the Cheezits?"
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