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  1. #1
    magicmerl's Avatar
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    Kombucha Sourdough 24hr Pizza

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    Anyhoo, I've been experimenting with authentic sourdough pizza recently and have cross-pollinated some citizen science from an artisan pizza board with our own love of lactofermented goodness on here.

    Apparently through some dark magic, lactofermentation can reduce the amount of gluten in sourdough bread to 12 parts per million (while the threshold for something to be gluten-free is 20PPM): http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1932817/

    Quote Originally Posted by the science behind using Kombucha as the Sourdough starter
    Lactofermentation is just combining water and flour together, then letting the germs battle it out. The dough starts at about PH7, which steadily lowers over the course of a week as the bacteria fight it out and die off. At about PH5, the bad bacteria that will make you sick are dead, and the good lactobacillis carry the day.

    A pizza afficianado theorised that starting with pineapple juice (which is PH5) would mean that the good bacteria could start right away without waiting for all of the bad bacteria empires to rise and fall as the PH slowly lowered. She tried it. Success!

    I told my lovely and talented wife of this startling discovery, and she suggested using Kombucha instead of pineapple juice, since it's already PH5 and contains active Lactobacillis. I tried it. Success!
    Here's the recipe for a single pizza

    125g flour
    80g Kombucha
    3g salt

    The day before the Pizza Day
    1. Mix the lot by hand for about 1 minute into a rough mass, cover and leave
    2. Rest for 15 minutes, knead for about 5 minutes or until completely uniform
    3. Repeat step 2 up to another 3 times, if desired (I usually skip this as I am lazy)
    4. Leave in a covered bowl for bulk ferment at room temperature

    Pizza Day
    0. Preheat oven to max temp
    1. Dust work surface with flour, then roll/stretch sourdough out into a thin pizza base. Transfer to a tray.
    2. Add toppings sparingly.
    3. Cook. (My oven maxes out at 250C, and take 9 min to cook. you want to cook pizza as hot as you can)
    Last edited by magicmerl; 12-22-2013 at 01:43 PM.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

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  2. #2
    Heyo Jay's Avatar
    Heyo Jay is offline Senior Member
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    Haven't had any paleo pizza ever. This makes me wanna do it up!
    My interesting paleo weight loss blog

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    This paper describes the use of a more complex formula, consisting of sourdough lactobacilli selected for their peptidase systems and fungal proteases active specifically towards gluten, than the above-cited studies for the manufacture of wheat bread having a concentration of gluten of <20 ppm.
    You can believe what you want to believe. But the probability that you can duplicate these results and produce an end product that is safely gluten-free using whatever lactobacillus culture you have on hand is nothing but wishful thinking, in the absence of test data. I have been told many times that sourdough is absolutely positively safe for celiacs because of this study. I have never seen a single analysis that would indicate the results have been duplicated outside of the laboratory.

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    magicmerl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    You can believe what you want to believe. But the probability that you can duplicate these results and produce an end product that is safely gluten-free using whatever lactobacillus culture you have on hand is nothing but wishful thinking, in the absence of test data. I have been told many times that sourdough is absolutely positively safe for celiacs because of this study. I have never seen a single analysis that would indicate the results have been duplicated outside of the laboratory.
    Yeah, here's a breakdown a little further. Basically, normal bread is 80,000 gluten ppm, sourdough clears out about 96% of that, dropping it to 2,000 ppm, while using fully hydrolysed wheat flour in the sourdough yielded the 8ppm bread (effectively gluten free) .

    So this type of pizza is still not good for celiacs or gluten intolerent people.

    But if you're not gluten intolerent, I think it can fall into the 20%.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    Anyhoo, I've been experimenting with authentic sourdough pizza recently and have cross-pollinated some citizen science from an artisan pizza board with our own love of lactofermented goodness on here.
    Thanks, this interests me very much. We are gluten-reduced here, mostly to help DD manage her acne, but also because less is looking more and more like a good idea. I've been using einkorn wheat for occasional baking, but buying frozen GF pizza dough at $6 a pop for the times we have pizza. A kombucha sourdough sounds delicious.

    I'm guessing it's unflavored kombucha? And regular all-purpose flour? Maybe I will try one einkorn and one dwarf, side by side.
    50yo, 5'3"
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    magicmerl's Avatar
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    It's the normal kombucha that we make to drink, which takes 1.5 cups of sugar, 6 teabags and an Apricot Teabag (to make roughly a gallon of kombucha). And yes, just plain white flour.

    I made some for my parents and a friend last night. Was awesome. These were my toppings:

    Marinara (1 440mL tin of tomatoes, pureed, with salt, pepper, garlic and oregano added)
    Olives
    Feta
    Fresh Basil
    sliced mushrooms
    A thin layer of grated cheddar cheese

    There was also some 'kiddie' pizzas with salami, pineapple and cheese for the less refine palates, but for some reason I think that the sweetness of the pineapple and the general meaty tastes are largely superfluous.
    Last edited by magicmerl; 12-29-2013 at 04:45 PM.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

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    breadsauce's Avatar
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    Interesting. But surely a "normal" sourdough culture would also have lactobacilli as well as various other strains of good bacteria and yeasts? So it should also reduce the gluten massively during a long fermentation? (Say, 48 hours minimum in the refrigerator?).

    Also, wouldn't rolling the pizza out using ordinary flour re-introduce a LOT of untreated gluten? I think I'd rather roll the dough out on either rice flour or potato flour or some other gluten free flour.

    But the idea appeals very much! On the same basis, perhaps it would be possible to make pastry for pies etc using flour and butter and using kefir rather than water to mix it? Then leave for 24 / 48 hours to ferment...

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    magicmerl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by breadsauce View Post
    Interesting. But surely a "normal" sourdough culture would also have lactobacilli as well as various other strains of good bacteria and yeasts? So it should also reduce the gluten massively during a long fermentation? (Say, 48 hours minimum in the refrigerator?).
    Yes, absolutely. However, I already have a Kombucha production line going (my kids drink it like water) so it's nice to not have to have too many things culturing at the same time.

    Quote Originally Posted by breadsauce View Post
    Also, wouldn't rolling the pizza out using ordinary flour re-introduce a LOT of untreated gluten? I think I'd rather roll the dough out on either rice flour or potato flour or some other gluten free flour.
    This is a great idea, thankyou. I will steal it.

    Quote Originally Posted by breadsauce View Post
    But the idea appeals very much! On the same basis, perhaps it would be possible to make pastry for pies etc using flour and butter and using kefir rather than water to mix it? Then leave for 24 / 48 hours to ferment...
    Yep.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

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