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  1. #51
    westes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noodletoy View Post
    non-fermented dairy, like cream and milk, has lactose. milk sugar. that's where the carbs come from. it's not added sugar, so is not an ingredient, per se. where you read you could chug cream ad infinitum i certainly don't know. it's not a food group on its own.

    EVERYTHING YOU EAT will cause an insulin release. that is normal and healthy.

    let go of the glycemic index. seriously. let it go. it's stoopid. the numbers are based on eating that food in isolation, which you won't be doing.

    if you want to focus on eating lc foods, that's your prerogative, but i think you're too busy taking each food as a "micro", instead of exhaling and seeing the bigger picture of what's on your plate. if your breakfast is 4 eggs, cooked in a bit of fat with a pile of sauteed mushrooms/peppers/onions and a handful of blackberries you are not going into a diabetic coma. if you want to forgo fruit because it terrifies you, eat a lot of organs and shellfish as well as a wide array of colorful veggies. we don't "need" fruit but it's damn tasty.

    i have been eating lc for 4+ years and primal for 3+. i completely geeked out at the beginning making sure i was hitting all sorts of micros. now it's just how i eat. you seem to be stripping the joy out of anything edible.
    noodletoy, I don't understand why your posts always have to have made up conversations, where you put words into the mouth of the person you are responding to that he or she never said. Seems like a lot of unnecessary conversation.

    First, I never said that cream had added sugar. Where did that come from?

    Second, you should read the ingredients list for your typical organic whipping cream. It has < 1 gram of sugar in it. It is almost 100% fat. I am lactose intolerant, but I can drink a gallon of cream and not have a single lactose related disturbance. I digest cream just fine, because it effectively has no sugar of any consequence.

    Yet, for reasons I cannot understand, cream makes my blood sugar slowly rise. Not sure it matters why. The glucometer tells me when my sugar is rising and I can just back off whatever food causes that without understanding why it causes that.

    Regarding fermentation, does someone sell a fermented dairy cream product? I am guessing that fermentation is something you only see in cheeses and yogurts? I would certainly try fermented cream if that was a product.

    Let go of glycemic index is fine. I can use glycemic load. But it sounds like what you are saying "forget about measuring blood sugar" and that is the most irresponsible thing you could say in a public forum. What if a person is diabetic? What if they are borderline diabetic / prediabetic? What if they just have very high fasting glucose? You are telling that person to not worry about blood sugar? Do you know how crazy and irresponsible that statement is?

    Do you understand what happens to a person's vascular system when their blood sugar stays above about 130? They get inflammation of the internal linings of the arteries. They get kidney, and retina, and other body organ damage. They get circulation problems. And the best science suggests now that living with even blood sugar above 100 exposes you to greatly increased risks of cancer, heart disease, etc. If you want to live to be 100 and be in perfect health right until the last few years, you need to have low blood sugar.

    Your message is particularly irresponsible to an American audience, because there is an epidemic of obesity and diabetes and prediabetes. Currently 8M Americans have diabetes. Now - read this please - 79 MILLION Americans now have prediabetes. That is fully 25% of the US population.

    Diabetes and Prediabetes Statistics and Facts | NDEP

    And your advice to those people is to stare at their plate, enjoy their meal, and stop worrying about blood sugar.

    You know, you and I are on opposite ends of the same ruler. I think we have nothing more to say to each other.

  2. #52
    Barnyard's Avatar
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    I just made my first frittata with onions, mushrooms, and grass-fed ground beef and eggs in cast iron skillet.....pretty damn good! I just used what I had in my fridge....I am definitely gonna play around with this, this could be a go-to quickie food for me. And a great 'substitute for fruit' for breakfast if that's what you're lookin for.....although I tend to agree with many of the posts here indicating you are overly worried about glycemic index and load....
    The life I have today is far better than I deserve.......

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  3. #53
    westes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barnyard View Post
    I just made my first frittata with onions, mushrooms, and grass-fed ground beef and eggs in cast iron skillet.....pretty damn good! I just used what I had in my fridge....I am definitely gonna play around with this, this could be a go-to quickie food for me. And a great 'substitute for fruit' for breakfast if that's what you're lookin for.....although I tend to agree with many of the posts here indicating you are overly worried about glycemic index and load....
    I made a frittata the other day as well, and I have nothing but good things to say about it. It was tasty. The opportunities for food variety are abundant. It made me feel great. It is a convenient snack between meals (just open the fridge and grab a slice). And it doesn't move my blood sugar very much.

    Thank you so much to the original poster who suggested this. I already ordered a cast iron skillet to make frittatas and a cookbook specific to frittata. This is going to become a daily thing for me.

    Regarding worrying about glycemic load, etc. Let me try to explain this once without having to answer the usual hecklers.

    I had fasting blood sugar of 115. That's high. That's close to diabetes. A typical Paleo meal of fruit and cream was moving me up to 130 to 135. After a good sized lunch I was hovering at 135. Those are dangerous levels of glucose. It's not at all abnormal to want to get that down.

    Without resorting to any drugs or extreme measures, I bought a glucometer and went on a mission to fix this myself. In less than three weeks with that glucometer, I have my fasting glucose down to 78. I still get my post-meal glucose above 110, but as I learn more about which foods affect my own glucose levels, I hope to get that down under 100.

    As I tried to explain in my prior message, glucose levels above 130 cause damage to the body, and levels above 100 are associated with much higher risks of certain cancers and heart disease. Further, nearly 25% of the US population - 79 MILLION people - now live with a similar condition. My doctor never said squat to me about the implications of such a high fasting glucose number. He said "Hmm, you are probably insulin resistent, and you have high LDL numbers. We should think about statins." That was the contribution of the medical profession to my high fasting glucose.

    So I took responsibility for my own outcome. And I'm fixing what was broken. I don't think I should have to apologize to anyone for it.

    Further, given that 25% of you have the same condition I have, and you probably don't even know it, you should be concerned about it too. But it's your life, and I'm not pushing you to be a different person than you are.
    Last edited by westes; 12-22-2013 at 06:28 PM.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by westes View Post
    noodletoy, I don't understand why your posts always have to have made up conversations, where you put words into the mouth of the person you are responding to that he or she never said. Seems like a lot of unnecessary conversation.

    First, I never said that cream had added sugar. Where did that come from?

    from you:


    Quote Originally Posted by westes View Post
    Hi Turquoise. So glycemic load of potatoes suggests it will raise glucose 20 to 30 points. That's a lot. As part of going Paleo, I'm working on having a low fasting blood sugar and reducing the spiking during the day.

    Since buying a glucometer (I am NOT diabetic, just fighting high fasting glucose), I have made amazing discoveries. For example, foods that I thought were primarily fat - like organic whipping cream - end up having sugars bound up in the fat that are not on the ingredients list. So eating a lot of cream starts to raise my glucose over the course of many days.
    Second, you should read the ingredients list for your typical organic whipping cream. It has < 1 gram of sugar in it. It is almost 100% fat. I am lactose intolerant, but I can drink a gallon of cream and not have a single lactose related disturbance. I digest cream just fine, because it effectively has no sugar of any consequence.

    Yet, for reasons I cannot understand, cream makes my blood sugar slowly rise. Not sure it matters why. The glucometer tells me when my sugar is rising and I can just back off whatever food causes that without understanding why it causes that.

    Regarding fermentation, does someone sell a fermented dairy cream product? I am guessing that fermentation is something you only see in cheeses and yogurts? I would certainly try fermented cream if that was a product.
    i buy local grass-fed cream. are you buying uht cream from the supermarket? you're wasting your money. it's a dead food. you can make creme fraiche out of cream that is low-temp pasteurized or raw by fermenting it yourself. further, a "paleo meal" isn't a bowl of fruit and cream. a serving of cream is 1-2 tablespoons, which is negligible carbs, yes, but if you're drinking quarts? not so much lc anymore.

    Let go of glycemic index is fine. I can use glycemic load. But it sounds like what you are saying "forget about measuring blood sugar" and that is the most irresponsible thing you could say in a public forum. What if a person is diabetic? What if they are borderline diabetic / prediabetic? What if they just have very high fasting glucose? You are telling that person to not worry about blood sugar? Do you know how crazy and irresponsible that statement is?
    i am not giving this advice to everybody, but to YOU. a person who is NOT diabetic.

    Do you understand what happens to a person's vascular system when their blood sugar stays above about 130? They get inflammation of the internal linings of the arteries. They get kidney, and retina, and other body organ damage. They get circulation problems. And the best science suggests now that living with even blood sugar above 100 exposes you to greatly increased risks of cancer, heart disease, etc. If you want to live to be 100 and be in perfect health right until the last few years, you need to have low blood sugar.

    Your message is particularly irresponsible to an American audience, because there is an epidemic of obesity and diabetes and prediabetes. Currently 8M Americans have diabetes. Now - read this please - 79 MILLION Americans now have prediabetes. That is fully 25% of the US population.

    Diabetes and Prediabetes Statistics and Facts | NDEP

    And your advice to those people is to stare at their plate, enjoy their meal, and stop worrying about blood sugar.

    You know, you and I are on opposite ends of the same ruler. I think we have nothing more to say to each other.
    honestly? since most americans are so very fat, i'd venture most of them are "pre-diabetic". however, those millions are not on here suspecting blackberries are going to kill them. YOU ARE. instead of grains, faleo breads and lots of snacking, i've already suggested eating low carb for you, as well as more animal protein, bigger meals and intermittent fasting. i've been eating that way over 4 years and all my cw markers are excellent. but yeah, i'm just talking out of my ass.
    Last edited by noodletoy; 12-23-2013 at 06:20 AM.
    As I ate the oysters with their strong taste of the sea and their faint metallic taste that the cold white wine washed away, leaving only the sea taste and the succulent texture, and as I drank their cold liquid from each shell and washed it down with the crisp taste of the wine, I lost the empty feeling and began to be happy and to make plans.

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  5. #55
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    Two things I would LOVE to get for the holiday season instead of *insert crummy desert here*

    First this:

    BaconExplosion_Retail.jpg

    Next these golden nuggets from here http://www.amazingribs.com/recipes/p...cracklins.html

    perfect_cracklin.jpg

    Mmmmmmmmm.....I would so love the person who sent me some of these in place of some fruity cake

    Lol....right after I posted this I decided to send a Bacon Explosion to my mom and dads house!

    Edit: Woops guess I should read posts and re-read thread titles! I thought the title was something along the line of "what to give rather than fruit cake"...dunno how I came up with that. Oh, well...still a good enough reason to order the Bacon Explosion!
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 12-23-2013 at 09:08 AM.

  6. #56
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    Nuts are polyunsaturated fats and omega-6, and those are the rancid nasty ones that harden LDL and cause all kinds of nasty conditions.

    If you are going to go for nuts, try macadamia. They have by far the lowest polyunsaturated content, mostly monounsaturated.

    Coffee I love, but that's not a carbohydrate source.
    Yes, macadamia is great with coffee. Soaked and dehydrated nuts work for me, and some of them have more carbs than macadamia, like cashews, but if you are excluding them, I understand. You can try some cocoa nibs or a crunch fresh vegetables, like cabbage, cucumber or radish or a mush from squash or a root vegetable (but if fruits are out, you might want to avoid tubers).

    I love leftover coleslaw for breakfast, packed with cabbage, celery, peppers, and a few tomatoes and carrots with a bit of fish....

    You can also try properly soaked beans, and, yes, I know they are not primal/paleo, but they do wonders for blood-sugar regulation. Well, for me. I assume.

    Just how much carbs are you aiming at breakfast? A refreshing smoothie from tomatoes, tomato paste, celery and spinach with a touch of lime might be an option, depending on your grams of carb.

    EDIT: If you disagree with any of my suggestions, please do not bite my head off. I did not mean to insult your intelligence or anything like that.
    Last edited by Leida; 12-23-2013 at 10:52 AM.
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  7. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by westes View Post

    Thank you so much to the original poster who suggested this. I already ordered a cast iron skillet to make frittatas and a cookbook specific to frittata. This is going to become a daily thing for me.
    I am thrilled that I could help

  8. #58
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    If you're hankering for numbers, have fun with this 50-page chart:

    International table of glycemic index and glycemic load values: 2002

    The GI winner for grains is... barley, with a GI of 25.
    The winners for fruits are grapefruit, cherries, and peaches.

    Or, make up a plate savory food at night, and zap it for breakfast the next day. Primals very quickly lose the need to eat traditional breakfast foods for breakfast. I would have ground beef and kale for breakfast and think nothing of it.

    EDIT: Wowie, this is interesting:

    Milk, full-fat
    Full-fat (Italy): 11
    Full-fat (3% fat; Skånemejerier, Malmö, Sweden): 21
    Full-fat cow milk (Dairy Farmers, Australia): 31
    Full-fat (Canada): 34
    Full-fat (USA): 40

    Either the studies for milk are widely variable, or something is very different about North American milk. Are diary cows corn-fed?
    Last edited by oxide; 12-23-2013 at 01:23 PM.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

  9. #59
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    While Pumpkin is considered a fruit....... It's a lower sugar fruit than most, so it could be a good option for you? You could warm it in the microwave if you want it warm, and sprinkle it with cinnamon!

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