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Thread: ChocoTaco369, this is for you: page 14

  1. #131
    eKatherine's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by not on the rug View Post
    Not going to defend choco because he's a big boy and can defend himself. But could the result of that argument be that choco actually learned something from the discussion and added that new knowledge to his repertoire? As opposed to the other people on this site who double fist the "calories don't matter" koolaid and then bury their heads in the sand. People who learn and evolve should be applauded, not mocked
    The issue is that this exact same argument takes place on many sites. This comes up on every diet forum repeatedly.

    No one ever really "learns" anything from it. The roles are pre-scripted and all actions are fully choreographed.

    It's usually started by The Iconoclast, who has personal anecdotal data supporting his contention that it's not about calories. Or it's not all about calories. Or it's not all, ever, only about calories, if The Iconoclast has done research. And even if The Iconoclast hasn't done any research, the supporters in his Chorus have, because there's lots of research studies that do suggest all sorts of ways that It's Not Nearly That Simple.

    The defender of the CICO faith is The CICO Warrior. In many sites and in many cases, The CICO Warrior understands none of the issues involved. The CICO Warrior and his Chorus may repeatedly parrot "Laws of Thermodynamics, nyah!" and other such meaningless tripe they don't understand. If the CICO Warrior is intelligent, he may incorporate some of the more incontrovertible counter-arguments of The Iconoclast and his Chorus, but only to pay lip service and maintain his contention that "X and Y may be true, but it's still all about CICO!"

    Because none of the argument is about science. It's about the belief that being thin is a clear demonstration that a person is healthy, exercises properly, and eats right. It is a moral argument that states that, against all evidence to the contrary, no one would be overweight or unhealthy had they not deliberately made bad lifestyle choices, bad lifestyle choices they made to offend The CICO Warrior and his Chorus. That it's really easy to lose weight by just eating less and moving more, so easy that people have to work really hard to avoid it, so easy that hundreds of millions of morbidly obese people have lost weight down to their target and kept it off forever, except that essentially no one does, the number rounding down to zero.

    They believe that you become a psychic by looking at a person's physical appearance and instantly know their medical history, diet, and exercise program without ever having spoken to them. That eating disorders are a blessing for a fat person, even if the eating disorders kills them.

  2. #132
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    magnolia1973 is offline Senior Member
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    But could the result of that argument be that choco actually learned something from the discussion and added that new knowledge to his repertoire?
    It might be!

    http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
    Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

  3. #133
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    dilberryhoundog is offline Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by not on the rug View Post
    Not going to defend choco because he's a big boy and can defend himself. But could the result of that argument be that choco actually learned something from the discussion and added that new knowledge to his repertoire? As opposed to the other people on this site who double fist the "calories don't matter" koolaid and then bury their heads in the sand. People who learn and evolve should be applauded, not mocked
    Choco doesn't learn things, he sprouts whatever is gunna get him the most pats on the back. Even if what he's sprouting goes against what he said previously. He will never say sorry or admit he was wrong. He does grab other peoples mantras and then strut around as tho he invented the concept (my post a little back was a tip of the hat to this).

    If you interrupt his little back patting circle by calling him out on some bullshit he is saying, he gets very agitated and resorts to low blows and hissy fits. It is very hard to have a civil debate with the guy.


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  4. #134
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    not on the rug is offline Senior Member
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    Like I said, I'm not defending the guy. Just thinking out loud
    I have a lot of hard miles on my body from before I realized I'm not 100% invulnerable. Now I just think I'm 75% invulnerable. -Mr. Anthony

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  5. #135
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    ChocoTaco369 is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by canio6 View Post
    Choco and others have stated many times that there are things that affect both sides of the CICO equation but at the end of the day calories still count. If (I am making this up for an example) diet coke f*cks up your metabolism to the point where you burn less calories this would have an effect on the CO part. If you have a jacked up thyroid this might have an effect on the CO part. If you underestimate what you eat this matters to the CI part etc.

    So yes CICO is not as simple as X in - y out = weightloss but that does not mean the whole concept is flawed.

    The guy who got me into primal lost 50 pounds eating primally. He then gained 30 pounds eating primally with more calories. Same foods different amounts. Yes, he weighed everything, kept a log etc. Yes, he did it on purpose.

    My wife has lost 90+ pounds. She eats carbs. She eats wheat. She drinks 6-8 diet cokes a day. She cut calories. It worked.

    Does that mean it works for everyone as written? No. But that does not make the premise false.
    I'm not going to go through 14 pages at this point, but this answer is good enough to the reality.

    To the OP: you either screwed up counting your calorie intake, you screwed up calculating your TDEE, or most likely of all - both. There is no way you can track your calorie output, either, so that's kind of a crazy statement.

    Different foods, exercises and metabolic conditions influence your "calories out." If you want to lose weight most effectively, you should be trying to maximize the hormones that generate the best state for body composition. This is healthy thyroid function, high testosterone, low estrogen and youthful labs for pregnenolone and DHEA, since they are the precursors for all your hormones.

    The best way to do those things: high protein intake, adequate fats AND carbohydrates from quality sources (saturated animal/coconut/dairy fats preferred, fruits and potatoes preferred for carbs) and low levels of toxic or irritating foods (you know what they are). Reduce "added calories" from added fats/oils, added refined sugars, drinking calories, alcohol, etc. Yada, yada.

    Oh yea, and lift heavy weights and sprint 1-2 times a week. Simple.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 12-13-2013 at 09:52 AM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  6. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    Choco doesn't learn things, he sprouts whatever is gunna get him the most pats on the back. Even if what he's sprouting goes against what he said previously. He will never say sorry or admit he was wrong. He does grab other peoples mantras and then strut around as tho he invented the concept (my post a little back was a tip of the hat to this).

    If you interrupt his little back patting circle by calling him out on some bullshit he is saying, he gets very agitated and resorts to low blows and hissy fits. It is very hard to have a civil debate with the guy.


    Sent from my iPhone
    You got me. I'm trying to build up as many religious followers as possible so the new book I'm writing ends up on the NY Times Best Seller's list. Isn't that why you're here right now?

    Sometimes you worry me that you think about me this much.

    This goes for a lot of you. How the hell is there a 14 page thread about me that I haven't even seen or responded to yet? Don't any of you have jobs? Christ.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  7. #137
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    ChocoTaco369 is online now Senior Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    Thank you. I didn't want to be the only one who remembered his flip flop. The most important thing I've learned from him is that on the internet, bloviation tops information.
    You should learn to flip-flop on things sometimes. I'm proud that I can admit I'm wrong in the face of better information and rigorous self-experimentation. Most of you guys are too proud and would rather claw at a concrete wall for years until your fingers bleed than admit you're wrong, turn around and use the door.

    Developed opinions through self-experimentation vs religious belief. Many on this forum are in the latter.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  8. #138
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    Don't any of you have jobs? Christ.
    My job is boring; it is more fun to bloviate and try and get men to take shirts off.

    http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
    Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

  9. #139
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    ChocoTaco369 is online now Senior Member
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    I'm really more of a trenchcoat flasher. I think ball shots are frowned upon here.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  10. #140
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    I'm really more of a trenchcoat flasher. I think ball shots are frowned upon here.
    I'm hopped up on enough carbs today that it would entertain me. I know it would entertain a few others as well.

    http://maggiesfeast.wordpress.com/
    Check out my blog. Hope to share lots of great recipes and ideas!

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