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Thread: Should drugs be legalized? page 4

  1. #31
    Urban Forager's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
    3) Perhaps this is cynical of me, but I believe that it is not a secret that the drug laws are a failure. I believe that it is widely known in powerful circles, but that they see the usefulness of the policy as well. It removes a fairly large portion of the economically unviable, which is the cornerstone value of our "culture". In this sense, it is doing exactly what it is designed to do. Setup a societal strainer, like one uses to wash pasta with, to ensnare those that would otherwise be useless to the machine. That is incredibly sad if true, but the evidence supports it.
    ^^^^ This I think could be the real purpose of the drug laws. The laws remove a large portion of the "unproductive" members of society. Their number are not reflected in unemployment figures, while they are incarcerated they can't vote, they are in effect hidden from the economy. And by incarcerating a significant sector of the population a whole new industry is created: the prison industry. Decriminalize drugs and just imagine how the unemployment numbers would skyrocket! Then you'd have cops, prison guards, prison employees and drug users and producers with nothing to do.

    I'm all for legalizing drugs, but where I live that would be the nail in the coffin of the local economy. Gov't jobs, health care and pot, there isn't anything else and the pot growers are the only ones with any extra $$$ to spend.
    Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychicsinlove View Post

    We have had all the talks. Basically I told him about problems that can piggyback with the drugs (the law, expulsion, etc.) and the problems that can come with the drug itself (possible addiction, not making nationals b/c health isn't optimal, etc.)
    Just curious have you researched any of these negatives yourself? In particular in regard to health and addiction potential. If in a couple of years he starts to research these 'truths' and discovers that neither pot nor shrooms are addictive nor have long term health impacts then he will feel a bit let down and start to doubt you.

  3. #33
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    Simple answer....yes....all of them.

  4. #34
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    I do know that a couple years ago, he was in a catatonic state. I couldn't "wake" him up, and he kept lying there with his eyes half open. I finally roused him and he was a drugged zombie. I almost took him to the ER myself, and I didn't care at the time about addiction, research, truths. All I knew was This Is Not My Son. Some substance was in his body and I wanted it out of his body, out of my house, out of our lives.

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by not on the rug View Post
    regulate and tax it. Have a set age (21) like alcohol. Have dui laws. and educate the public. Nobody "trips" on meth or coke.
    lol.....I love the idea of educating the public for that particular reason alone!

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by not on the rug View Post

    the idea that drug dealers are "targeting" kids makes me think that you're not as worldly as you'd like to believe. perhaps you've watched one too many afterschool specials


    In the real world, they are targeting kids. They are primarily targeting them to be mules and "independent contractors" though. Maybe that starts with a little product or introduction to the business. Go to one of those shady parts of town and watch the middle school bus stop and tell me what you see. Young kids are targeted by gangs to bring them into the business so they are the ones holding the bag so to speak. So if anyone is going to get arrested or shot at, it is an expendable kid.

    And making drugs legal sure sounds great on paper but what drugs? All drugs? Do you think that honestly puts the gangs out of business? And how do we regulate? Do we allow drugs made with drain cleaner? And if it is about the right to put whatever you want in your body ok but when that substance causes you to act violently toward other people it starts to affect others' rights to not get stabbed in the eye. Not to mention it possibly puts exponentially more people on the road under the influence. That starts to again be infringing on the right to not die in a ball of fire.

    Interesting points but I just dont see it as simple as make it legal and the bad guys are taken out of the equation or that no one else's rights are affected. Nor do I see someone addicted to legal heroin being necessarily productive to society. Then again, when I look at the legal drug business currently I am not filled with confidence in our abilities to regulate.

  7. #37
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    I'm on the fence when it comes to legalization of drugs vs. decriminalization. On one hand currently there is the organized crime controlling the production and distribution - The Mafia (heroin), Jamaican gangs (crack), and the Medellin Cartel (cocaine) who would stand to lose billions in drug profits from legalization, especially those at the top of the hierarchy; on the other hand, those functions (control over production as well as huge profits from taxation) would be transferred to the govt if drugs were to be legalized. There's no doubt that some illegal drugs are destructive and can potentially cause death, but so do many FDA approved ones....

    Obviously the status quo - "the drug war" is a major failure, people will do what they want to do. The idea that anyone could have control over what I do with my body is plain ridiculous too.

    In Portugal most drugs were decriminalized over 10 years ago, and this was proven to be a major success.

    Ten Years Ago Portugal Legalized All Drugs -- What Happened Next? | Alternet

    For those looking for clues about how the U.S. government can tackle its domestic drug problem, the figures are enticing. Following decriminalization, Portugal eventually found itself with the lowest rates of marijuana usage in people over 15 in the EU: about 10%. Compare this to the 40% of people over 12 who regularly smoke pot in the U.S., a country with some of the most punitive drugs laws in the developed world. Drug use of all kinds has declined in Portugal: Lifetime use among seventh to ninth graders fell from 14.01% to 10.6%. Lifetime heroin use among 16-18 year olds fell from 2.5% to 1.8%. And what about those horrific HIV infection rates that prompted the move in the first place? HIV infection rates among drug users fell by an incredible 17%, while drug related deaths were reduced by more than half. "There is no doubt that the phenomenon of addiction is in decline in Portugal," said Joao Goulao, President of the Institute of Drugs and Drugs Addiction, at a press conference to mark the 10th anniversary of the law.
    Because of our "democratic" voting system however I don't expect any drug related policies to change in this country any time in the near future.

    Psychicsinlove, I am also a parent of an adolescent. I think the question is why do kids do drugs in the first place?
    I have open and honest conversations on this topic with my son that go well beyond the "drugs are bad" speech, I even share personal experience. Of course I will not have a say in what he does once he is an independent adult, but I want him to be informed, be capable of critical thinking and have his body and mind unadulterated for as long as possible, without giving him the impression that he is living inside some protective bubble.
    Last edited by Graycat; 12-10-2013 at 10:03 AM.

  8. #38
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    Graycat I told DH it would be like us being told by Big Brother no more alcohol. For us it is a social thing. I would think it was ridiculous, but would probably shore the rest up for extremely special occasions, make a yearly illicit batch of "moonshine" and reminisce about the good old days. LOL. It would not affect me strongly as I don't have an addictive personality.

    With DS, I am such a hard azz on the boards about this BECAUSE I saw him in that altered state. He DID have a personality change. His friends DID go to the ER. I was terrified. I'm sorry I came across as such a militant hard azz, but I didn't preface my rant with my backstory. My job is to keep him in one piece until his brain catches up with his body.

  9. #39
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    The whole economy targets kids, they are the biggest most vulnerable market. I find it odd that people all of a sudden get protective of kids when it comes to drugs but all the other products that are marketed to kids are just fine. Set your 2 yr old in front of TV and start programing his brain while he's in a semi catatonic state and no ones going to criticize that!

    Obviously having drugs illegal isn't going to make them unavailable.
    Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychicsinlove View Post
    I do know that a couple years ago, he was in a catatonic state. I couldn't "wake" him up, and he kept lying there with his eyes half open. I finally roused him and he was a drugged zombie. I almost took him to the ER myself, and I didn't care at the time about addiction, research, truths. All I knew was This Is Not My Son. Some substance was in his body and I wanted it out of his body, out of my house, out of our lives.
    That's fair enough, I agree I've been at festivals before and seen people under the influence of powerful psychedelics, it's not a pretty sight (generally, they can barely stand and look like zombies) however I've experienced shrooms myself (where legal I'm not in the US) and taken in the correct atmosphere, with proper respect, the right dose and among the right people at the right age 18+ they can have an enormously beneficial impact. Needless to say keeping them illegal doesn't encourage this kind of use. It is not harmful to the body however and definitely not addictive.

    From my research pot is ok in moderation but can become a problem if used to self-medicate for anxiety or pain. It is a lot safer than alcohol however and can offer insight if used in moderation.

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