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Thread: Andrew Kim Absolutely Crushes the Ridiculous Notion of Being "Fat Adapted" page 8

  1. #71
    Euphoric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MEversbergII View Post
    ChocoTaco (man, what a weird name for this forum...), you should do like a month long "day in the life" kind of thread some time, showing what your diet / exercise life is like.

    M.
    He sort of had that with his Food Porn thread. The guy can cook.

  2. #72
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    It would be mostly food pictures...
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    I invite you to go back through my post history and find a single line in anything I've written where I've said "everyone," "everybody" or "all" should do any one specific thing. I'm confident you won't find a single occurrence, and I'm equally confident you're making this up in your own mind.

    Are you *sure* a 16 calorie teaspoon of sugar in your coffee is going to destroy your health, or are you wildly exaggerating? Are you sure a single apple will keep you up all night, or are you embellishing to make a point? I am not calling you a liar, but I've found so many inconsistencies in what people say they do versus what they actually do it makes my head spin. Remember, we are on a forum where the majority of people consider ice cream, doughnuts, chocolate bars, potato chips, Cheetos and Doritos "carbs" even though they are as high if not higher in fats than carbs. What we think we are addicted to and what we think we react poorly to is often wrong since we tend to take biased, myopic views.
    He he he, caught me red-handed! It's true that I over-exaggerated. I occasionally indulge in sugar treats. But i'm really not exaggerating by much, and I WILL feel the effect of that teaspoon of sugar even if I don't flat out crash and burn from it. That teaspoon will still make me feeling unpleasantly hyper. I do eat fruit, and honey too, and it doesn't have as much of a bad effect (even though I have to restrict those as well) as refined sugar no matter how diluted the latter have been. Couldn't tell you why, but that's how it is. I very much prefer being fat adapted when I have the opportunity to stay that way.

    The thing is, I don't need to quote you on posts where you've literally written the words 'everybody' or 'everyone', because I can still turn to phrases such as, say, 'Andrew Kim Absolutely Crushes the Ridiculous Notion of Being "Fat Adapted"', just to name one example.
    If being fat adapted is truly ridiculous, then obviously that would apply to everyone or you should seriously consider using different words to communicate your point. From my point of view, Kim isn't even close to crushing anything here. in fact, if being fat adapted is a bulls eye target, and Kim's article is a bow and arrow, you're still trying to shoot the target with your back facing the bullseye board. That isn't 'crushing' a 'ridiculous notion'. That's just beating a dead horse. :P

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by drjoyous View Post

    That may change in the future, depending on how i feel. Choco may sometimes rub some of us the wrong way (me too...) but he has good ideas to CONSIDER, just as many others do. Does he sometimes rant? Sure. So what? If you react to his rant with dismissiveness and don't listen (to him or anyone else that sets you off...), you let his feelings dictate your own. Let him be who he is!
    Here's the deal with choco...

    Choco hates PUFA's he blames every metabolic malaise squarely on them.

    Then you got the other respected board members, neckhammer, rich mahogany, myself and many others all disliking PUFA's too. But we all agree that there are other factors (some more prevalent) that contribute to metabolic malaise's (like over consumption of cheap carbs). We try to explain this time and time again but he don't want to listen. He doesn't want to CONSIDER the stance of many of us and therefore we don't consider his stance. It usually devolves into what many other posters described in this thread (ie choco throwing the toys out of the pram).

    So here we are again, choco with the broken record repeating, "it's the PUFA's", not comprehending why mark and many forum posters are mostly ok with his food pyramid and carb curve (they do need a little refinement). We aren't all butthurt by the fact that some PUFA's are discretionary, choco is on a crusade (can you see his little sword and shield) to rid the blueprint of PUFA's.



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  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reindeer View Post
    He he he, caught me red-handed! It's true that I over-exaggerated. I occasionally indulge in sugar treats. But i'm really not exaggerating by much, and I WILL feel the effect of that teaspoon of sugar even if I don't flat out crash and burn from it. That teaspoon will still make me feeling unpleasantly hyper. I do eat fruit, and honey too, and it doesn't have as much of a bad effect (even though I have to restrict those as well) as refined sugar no matter how diluted the latter have been. Couldn't tell you why, but that's how it is. I very much prefer being fat adapted when I have the opportunity to stay that way.

    The thing is, I don't need to quote you on posts where you've literally written the words 'everybody' or 'everyone', because I can still turn to phrases such as, say, 'Andrew Kim Absolutely Crushes the Ridiculous Notion of Being "Fat Adapted"', just to name one example.
    If being fat adapted is truly ridiculous, then obviously that would apply to everyone or you should seriously consider using different words to communicate your point. From my point of view, Kim isn't even close to crushing anything here. in fact, if being fat adapted is a bulls eye target, and Kim's article is a bow and arrow, you're still trying to shoot the target with your back facing the bullseye board. That isn't 'crushing' a 'ridiculous notion'. That's just beating a dead horse. :P
    Being "fat adapted" doesn't exist. People who are severely insulin resistant feel better excluding carbohydrate because it keeps their blood sugar stable. It isn't because of some kind of "fat adaptation." You're simply taking the issue of blood sugar spikes out of the equation.

    This sends a poor message because blood sugar spikes are not unhealthy. They are extremely healthy, and spiking your blood sugar promotes insulin sensitivity, not insulin resistance. Avoiding blood sugar spikes promotes insulin resistance - your insulin cannot drop below a certain point, so when you avoid the spikes, in order to metabolize more FFA's to pick up the slack from the lack of glucose, your body becomes physiologically more insulin resistant to compensate. The average low carber is much more insulin resistant than the average high carber.

    The above is not metabolic syndrome, but rather a natural responsible to a low carbohydrate diet. In the context of metabolic syndrome, it is important to note that carbohydrate does not cause it (like paleo tends to imply). Some people think eating carbs tires out the pancreas and overtime you become insulin resistant because of chronic insulin production, but this is a ridiculous notion because protein causes the pancreas to excrete just as much insulin as carbs, and in addition it must work even harder to excrete glucagon - meat would be even more harmful to the pancreas! What metabolic syndrome is is a runaway fatty acid metabolism. When a healthy person consumes sugar, what is supposed to happen is the sugar is quickly cleared from the bloodstream and shuttled into mitochondria where it is oxidized as fuel preferentially. Free fatty acid metabolism is decreased while sugar metabolism is increased. In a person with metabolic syndrome, the sugar enters the bloodstream but it cannot be cleared quickly enough. Blood sugar stays high, so even when you eat sugar, you continue to burn fat. That's not what's supposed to happen. I make the joke often that diabetics are the ultimate "fat burning beasts" because they never stop burning fat, even when you give them sugar. My belief is this situation is caused by too much polyunsaturated fat and not enough nutrition (i.e. antioxidants) to stave off the damage oxidizing PUFA does to the human body. Sugar is actually protective against metabolic syndrome because it keeps insulin sensitivity high. I believe it is the fatty acid composition of the American diet leading to all these health problems - too much PUFA in relation to SFA. Keep your SFA:PUFA ratio high and cycle sugar into your diet often to maximize your insulin sensitivity. If you're already unhealthy, the prescription is a little different, but that's my belief and understanding.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 11-07-2013 at 07:46 AM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  6. #76
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    I always appreciate Choco's take on things and the actual foods he recommends are healthy. I eat like that and feel great, way better than on VLC, but I also didn't have a ton of damage to fix. His arguments are reasonable.

  7. #77
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    Hi Choco,

    What is your understanding of how sugars (either/or sugar and sugary stuff like honey or whole fruit across the glucose-fructose spectrum) are treated by the body v. starches (e.g., potato, rice).

    Thx

  8. #78
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    If you disagree with Mark Sisson so much, why are you part of his forum?

  9. #79
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    I enjoy these debates and get a lot out of them. I find that opposing views have really helped me question and grow my knowledge of nutrition and diet.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by OneDeltaTenTango View Post
    Hi Choco,

    What is your understanding of how sugars (either/or sugar and sugary stuff like honey or whole fruit across the glucose-fructose spectrum) are treated by the body v. starches (e.g., potato, rice).

    Thx
    Sugars have generally less impact on blood glucose levels because of the fructose component, which isn't very insulinogenic and must be broken down in the liver. A person with strong insulin resistance would likely have better luck eating fruits than starches. Fruits are more challenging for the body to metabolize than starches, so the "calorie burn" is higher eating fruits than starches. Starches are superior for workout recovery because they are easier to metabolize and are more preferentially stored as muscle glycogen than fruits.

    Personally, I don't care. I eat both. I would recommend limiting refined sugar just like I recommend limiting refined fats since they are high calorie/low nutrient. Meats for fats, fruits and tubers for glucose.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

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