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Thread: How fat will everyone get? page 12

  1. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Urban Forager View Post
    The obesity problem is so much more complex than what I'm seeing on this thread.... "people are obese because they eat too much crap food". Well yeah, that's true but there is a lot more to it. For starters you have corporations that produce food that has no nutritional value (subsidized by the government) and some of the most clever minds relentlessly marketing those products to the public (especially children), a public that has no back ground in nutrition and no idea how to prepare whole foods. A public that is over over worked and under paid with no time to prepare foods from scratch. A public that has no time to devote to exercise. A public that is exhausted, alienated and depressed and told that the remedy is treats. Not to mention CW promoting the food pyramid and low fat foods. A public that is so stressed out that they are desperate for some form of escape from their mundane and lonely lives.
    Thanks for making a smart post.

    Part of it is beliefs -- Americans believe independence from their environment exists (personal choice). Thus the individual is always to blame - "you made yourself fat" or "you voted for them, it's your fault". Blame is never placed on the environment, if you do correctly observe that environment makes things the way they are people will say "man up", or "own it". It's part of the culture.

    Look guys, if you put a bunch of rats in a cage, and make available to them the American aggregate food supply (30% grains, 20% grain oil, 15% sugar, 15% meat, 10% dairy, 10% plant) the inevitable will happen. Perhaps one rat will go for the meat and plant, and another will go for the grains and sugar, but overall they will be a bunch of metabolic syndrome rats. How can it be any other way?

    Yet when you look at a country instead of a cage of rats it is somehow different?

    It's already been tested all over the world, and the results are in. When you start shifting a culture's diet to the American diet, the same thing always happens. You can keep saying "personal choice, nobody forced them to eat it". But if you run this test on 100 countries it will come up the same every single time. Reality is trying to tell you -- your belief is not correct.

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Einstein

  2. #112
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    Quote Originally Posted by turquoisepassion View Post
    Have you actually lived in the inner city slums? The only food available to buy is processed crap. I can't even find a banana that isn't rotten sometimes. Add on the fact that people don't have a car and can't afford the $5+ round trip public transportation (assuming there is one) to the grocery store at least weekly, and you have a problem.

    The "cheapest food" for middle class neighborhood grocery store might be a potato and some bananas, but some of these stores have extremely rotten produce. Preparation tools (pots, pans, spices, oils, fats) are expensive to accumulate at the beginning. Storage space is limited. Large fridge/freezer might not be an option. Etc.

    So packaged chips, cake, and hamburger helper it is.

    This is why I think all of the "week long challenges" for food bloggers to have a small budget for food in order to mimic poor people is ridiculous. Pure ego stroking that they are better than those poor folks. Meanwhile they complete the $25 a week challenge by shopping at Costco (cost to get membership, not available as an option to poorer neighborhoods), using their fancy $$& cookware and fancy $$$ spices, spend 3 hrs in the kitchen a day (most poorer ppl are working long hours and can't do the same), and pat themselves on the back at the end of the week (not like someone with no end in sight).







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    This was me a few times, along with the fiance. A few places we lived in didn't even have a stove, so we got pretty good at microwaveable food. Even now, when times are better, I find myself second guessing cookware purchases. I have a single cast iron pan, a miniature frying pan and a single pot. Borrowing a crockpot, too.

    Additionally, something that occurred to me recently, was how expensive operating things in the house can be. Biggest power draws are the fridge and the stove. While cooking with said stove, I find myself wondering just how much it adds to the cost of the meal, though at this point it's mostly idle curiosity. I also would rather not have to spend time cooking, as I am a pretty busy person, working full time, school full time and trying to run a household. I eat a lot of tinned foods - corned beef hash is kind primal...

    And good point on the no end in sight. When you're down in the muck, it's sometimes hard to think that thing's will get better. I had to fail a lot and go backwards to get as far ahead as I am now.

    M.

  3. #113
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    It sounds to me like the fat haters have a problem with gluttony. Sounds like some kind of moralistic holdover from their Puritan past. I often feel that taco guy who pops in to rant now and then also has a huge Puritan streak with his irrational hatred of dietary fat. I have learned over the decades that it is not wise to look down on others because whatever it is that you feel superior for not having you will one day wake up having exactly that.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Heaviest squat: 180 x 2. Heaviest Deadlift: 230 x 2

  4. #114
    Ripped's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimchiNinja View Post
    People in the USA are the way they are because the aggregate food supply is what it is. Individuals (those of us on this site) may specifically choose only certain foods in that food supply, but the population will always eat the aggregate food supply. That's the way reality works.

    …and the food supply became the way it is from government intervention, not demand from the people.
    From a look at the general population, meaning most people, I agree with this 100%.

    And most of this one too.

    Quote Originally Posted by KimchiNinja View Post
    Thanks for making a smart post.

    Part of it is beliefs -- Americans believe independence from their environment exists (personal choice). Thus the individual is always to blame - "you made yourself fat" or "you voted for them, it's your fault". Blame is never placed on the environment, if you do correctly observe that environment makes things the way they are people will say "man up", or "own it". It's part of the culture.

    Look guys, if you put a bunch of rats in a cage, and make available to them the American aggregate food supply (30% grains, 20% grain oil, 15% sugar, 15% meat, 10% dairy, 10% plant) the inevitable will happen. Perhaps one rat will go for the meat and plant, and another will go for the grains and sugar, but overall they will be a bunch of metabolic syndrome rats. How can it be any other way?

    Yet when you look at a country instead of a cage of rats it is somehow different?

    It's already been tested all over the world, and the results are in. When you start shifting a culture's diet to the American diet, the same thing always happens. You can keep saying "personal choice, nobody forced them to eat it". But if you run this test on 100 countries it will come up the same every single time.
    Quote Originally Posted by KimchiNinja View Post
    Reality is trying to tell you -- your belief is not correct.
    But I can't agree with this. It is true for most people.

    But based on what you're saying, that means I'm going to get fat if I move back to the USA and there's nothing I can do about it. It isn't true. I lost weight and kept it off when I was home, and I can do it again. Because I know how to eat right. Free will seems to be working in my favor.

    Let's just look at things rationally and from a sociological perspective. With the truth you are telling, which is based on statistics, we can predict that if you were born in the USA you will be more likely to be overweight. This is just the same as how we can predict that if you were born in India you'd be more likely to be a hindu. But we are only saying "more likely".

    So sure most people in the USA are overweight and to an extent it isn't their fault. They are only playing with the cards that were dealt to them at birth.

    However, there are clearly exceptions to the rule. People can make a difference. They can change. They can make their lives better. And that's where free will and personal choices come into play.

    I'll admit that some excuses are legit to an extent. But it doesn't do any good blaming your problems on society and playing the "poor me" game. It doesn't help you solve the problem. It was hard for me to figure out how to lose weight and keep it off and gain control over my weight for life. And part of those problems I do partially blame on society. Why didn't anyone tell me I was fat early on? I didn't know. That part wasn't my fault. However, when I finally did make the decision to change, I made the decision and put forth the effort to do so because I wanted to.

    All I'm saying is if any of the excuses are legit, and clearly some of them are, they're only useful at identifying where the problem came from so that you can try to figure out how to fix it. Once you make the decision to fix it, if you can figure out how, you can do it. Even while living in the USA.

  5. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by turquoisepassion View Post
    Have you actually lived in the inner city slums? The only food available to buy is processed crap. I can't even find a banana that isn't rotten sometimes. Add on the fact that people don't have a car and can't afford the $5+ round trip public transportation (assuming there is one) to the grocery store at least weekly, and you have a problem.

    The "cheapest food" for middle class neighborhood grocery store might be a potato and some bananas, but some of these stores have extremely rotten produce. Preparation tools (pots, pans, spices, oils, fats) are expensive to accumulate at the beginning. Storage space is limited. Large fridge/freezer might not be an option. Etc.

    So packaged chips, cake, and hamburger helper it is.

    This is why I think all of the "week long challenges" for food bloggers to have a small budget for food in order to mimic poor people is ridiculous. Pure ego stroking that they are better than those poor folks. Meanwhile they complete the $25 a week challenge by shopping at Costco (cost to get membership, not available as an option to poorer neighborhoods), using their fancy $$& cookware and fancy $$$ spices, spend 3 hrs in the kitchen a day (most poorer ppl are working long hours and can't do the same), and pat themselves on the back at the end of the week (not like someone with no end in sight).







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    That really sucks. I used to just walk to and from the grocery store in the snow when I was in college. It was pretty far.

    But anyways, I just want to say that I am a positive thinker and I believe that you can always improve your life if you try. Just because you only have access to junk food, it doesn't mean you HAVE to eat more of it.

    Additionally, like I said, anyone can make their lives better if they try. You can get a better job. You can move to a different city or even to the country. There really is many options. The USA has been known for centuries as the land of opportunity, the place where you can go from rags to riches. I did that, I grew up in the lower class and came out on top because I tried and continued to press for improvements in life. I eventually found a way.

    If someone grows up in a city like that and it's no good, they can find a way out.

    Knowing this should be motivation.

    There are a lot of people who were born in the USA who complain that they weren't given a fair hand, that they are unfortunate and don't have the opportunities that other people had. But for all those whiners and complainers out there, I am sure their are MILLIONS of people from all around the planet who would LOVE to have that opportunity (to live in the USA) and would do just about anything they could to have it.

    I have known PLENTY of people who moved to the USA from other countries, some with little to no money, some even from VERY poor backgrounds such as having a dirt floor and having to walk just to get a pail of water to bathe in or cook with. And of those people they all made something good out of their lives. I know one guy who told me that between him and his family they only had $100 to share when they first stepped foot into the USA and had to drink water out of the sink at the rest stops because they couldn't afford to buy any; he told me after a few years of living in the USA he and his sister went those years without a single day without work. I even knew another few guys who were going to engineering school full time AND had to work 40-50 hours per week on the side just to pay their tuition.

    Summary:
    1. People born in the USA whine and complain that they have no opportunities and use it as an excuse to be losers for life and never better themselves. They fail to realize what great opportunity they have, so they never do anything good.
    2. Foreigners come in, work HARD, and make something of themselves. They take advantage of the opportunity.

    So how is that related? Yes, I understand, some situations suck and there isn't much you can do, at least temporarily. But with desire and determination, you can always find a way to make your life better, even if it's hard, and even if it takes more time. A child can't help it if their parents only fed them junk food their whole lives and didn't instill healthy beliefs. But that same child, when old enough to think for themselves, they can change if they decide that they wanted to.

    Isn't that what most people did on this forum? We are a community of people who wanted to better ourselves. So we did it.

  6. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimchiNinja View Post
    Thanks for making a smart post.

    Part of it is beliefs -- Americans believe independence from their environment exists (personal choice). Thus the individual is always to blame - "you made yourself fat" or "you voted for them, it's your fault". Blame is never placed on the environment, if you do correctly observe that environment makes things the way they are people will say "man up", or "own it". It's part of the culture.

    Look guys, if you put a bunch of rats in a cage, and make available to them the American aggregate food supply (30% grains, 20% grain oil, 15% sugar, 15% meat, 10% dairy, 10% plant) the inevitable will happen. Perhaps one rat will go for the meat and plant, and another will go for the grains and sugar, but overall they will be a bunch of metabolic syndrome rats. How can it be any other way?

    Yet when you look at a country instead of a cage of rats it is somehow different?

    It's already been tested all over the world, and the results are in. When you start shifting a culture's diet to the American diet, the same thing always happens. You can keep saying "personal choice, nobody forced them to eat it". But if you run this test on 100 countries it will come up the same every single time. Reality is trying to tell you -- your belief is not correct.

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Einstein
    Exactly and if you add in what turquoisepassion said we are getting somewhere.

    Here's another component: public schools. The main purpose is teach deference to authority and passivity. Twelve years of programming (minimum) combined with the requisite daily dose of propaganda from media and you end up with a public that trusts (or at least relies on) experts (medical profession) to tell them what's good for them.

    The programming starts at birth, mothers are given what looks like gift bags in the hospital full of lovely products. Then they are sent home with little or no support. At this vulnerable time in their lives they are easy prey to corporate marketing. Every mother, unless they are crack heads, wants to do what's best for their child, they don't set out to make their kid sick and obese. But the culture bombards them with toxic options. Like Kimchi said it's in the environment. Set the wee tike in front of the TV, because you are a good parent, have them watch Sesame Street while eating Oaty O's and apple juice. It really doesn't make a whole lot of difference; the kid could be watching anything and eating anything the results are the same: passive consumption with critical thinking suspended.

    Powerful forces converge (not a conspiracy but just common interests) to make a buck off the masses. To point a finger at the tired public that succumbs to the onslaught only obscures the truth and adds nothing to the understanding of the problem.
    Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

  7. #117
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    Ripped, Bravo for you! You found your way to a better life. But your experience is not universal.

    Here's a story: when my husband was in graduate school we lived in a pretty rough part of a big city. Hubby loves to garden so he revived a patch of dirt and turned it into a garden. The little boy from next door (he literally lived in crack house) was curious and came over to check out what Hubby was up to. Hubby dug up a carrot, washed it off and gave it to him. The boy was shocked he said " you mean you can eat that, it came out of the dirt!" Who knows what that kid normally ate but he certainly didn't know where real food comes from. The point is we don't all start at the same place.
    Life is death. We all take turns. It's sacred to eat during our turn and be eaten when our turn is over. RichMahogany.

  8. #118
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripped View Post
    I don't know where you've gotten filipino food or if it was even real filipino food, but they actually have a reputation for having the worst food in south east Aisia. When I first got here I just about hated every meal. Coming from the USA, it really does take a while to get used to. The one thing I did like however was the plainness of the food, clearly not for the taste, but because it doesn't make you fat. I've even seen thin people eat what we would consider insane amounts of rice without any trouble.

    I do like the desert halo halo though. It's mixed fruit in crushed ice, sometimes they put one small scoop of ice cream with it. Consider a large halo halo desert that leaves you feeling stuffed at only perhaps 300 calories, and compare that to a large friendlies sunday that leaves you feeling sick at over 1,000 calories! Yup, it's a difference in style!!!



    This doesn't surprise me. Filipinos are used to eating plain food that you can eat as much as you want of without getting fat. My bet is that the food here is more plain than in other Asian countries. It's islands and it's hard to get a lot of stuff here. Mostly all they eat is fish, rice, and bananas. Even milk is expensive because they don't have as many farms as we do.

    They are also very short and small people. So if they eat American sized meals just like everyone else, they will surely get fatter.
    Okay as someone from this ethnic background and who lived in Philippines for many years, I can tell you that people there choose to eat junk food just like anybody else in other countries. As a kid, we always ate fresh food. We had rice breakfast lunch and dinner and even at snack in the afternoon after a nap. We ate mostly fish at times we would have chicken or pork on special occasions rarely anything with beef. Sure we had chips but they were treats, my family didn't store any of that crap. We had desserts on occasions. One thing that was always a staple was fresh vegetables mixed with some kind of broth with tamarind or guava.

    We were poor but I was not starving. Maybe it was just my family but we didn't eat in excess. We ate when it was time to eat with the rest of the family. We didn't snack around all day, nibbling on food. I was a skinny kid. We played outside with jumping ropes, chased each other even when there was a thunderstorm.

    One thing is what I know for sure is being fat is not acceptable amongst social circles especially for women. We don't come with oh hey she's just curvy. If you are not thin you will hear all about it from families.

    Btw halo halo is really good...

    I don't know what you mean by the food is plain. it's definitely not. Rice for sure because it has to mix with the main meals and plus you can make it as fried rice for breakfast.
    Last edited by cayla29s; 11-07-2013 at 09:55 AM.

  9. #119
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    I like puto.

    We have a Filipino population around here (probably naval/marine wives and their extended families). There are a few markets around here, but it's mostly processed garbage from what I can tell. There's a Filipino restaurant in one of the "Oriental" markets I've been meaning to try out. Lumpia appears to be a big deal, so I will try that out.

    As a kid, my diet started out ok (lots of homegrown stuff) but as my dad had less time/energy to work the garden, we had more and more crap. I'm willing to bet about 1/3 of the protein I consumed between 4th grade and 12th grade was in hot dog form...

    M.

  10. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimchiNinja View Post
    Look guys, if you put a bunch of rats in a cage, and make available to them the American aggregate food supply (30% grains, 20% grain oil, 15% sugar, 15% meat, 10% dairy, 10% plant) the inevitable will happen. Perhaps one rat will go for the meat and plant, and another will go for the grains and sugar, but overall they will be a bunch of metabolic syndrome rats. How can it be any other way?

    Yet when you look at a country instead of a cage of rats it is somehow different?
    It's not quite the same thing. Demand drives supply. Do you think the fast food industry is so large because people have no choice and just eat at their establishments, or do you think it is so large because so many people like fast food? What would happen to the fast food restaurants if people started choosing healthier options? Would McDonald's close its doors? No, they would evolve and change their food to match the demand.

    If the public will start to choose more unprocessed, wholesome foods, the food supply will change to offer more unprocessed wholesome options.

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