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Thread: Evidence that Taubes and Lustig are both wrong!!! page 16

  1. #151
    Terry H's Avatar
    Terry H is offline Senior Member
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    Start a new potato thread and let's find out.

  2. #152
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    Did you even read what he was writing, Otzi?

  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timthetaco View Post
    Did you even read what he was writing, Otzi?
    this

  4. #154
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    This topic is awful. Lots of "I said so", and personal incredulity. Disinformation galore too. Also, as routinely shown by these so called "experts", not even a degree can save you from being horribly wrong. In the case of dismissing based on credentials, this is a dirty act, and no one learns anything from that. If we take whatever at face value we learn NOTHING. Of course, unless you're formulating new hypothesis constantly you're learning from various other people, why is this discredited all of sudden? Surely if something flies in the face of basic, studied, and proven science it's worth looking into rather than taking it just because one claims x and has y credentials.

    Fuck that.

    Regarding leptin: correlation =/= causation.

    Levels of leptin increase in the serum in obese individuals and drop during weight loss. There is a direct correlation between the amount of body fat an individual carries and the circulating levels of leptin. Leptin activates the anorexigenic axis for appetite suppression in the hypothalamus by increasing the frequency of action potentials in the hypothalamic POMC neurons by depolarization and reduced inhibition by local orexigenic neuropeptide-y neurons. In no way does this implement insulin in the cause of leptin deficiency, this is pseduoscience and nonsense and implicating insulin in the main cause of obesity. Haven't we thoroughly debunked this enough already? In fact, elevated serum leptin is one cause of insulin resistance from obesity due to GFAT overexpressing. Leptin should naturally take a back seat to insulin, as excessive leptin stimulation is indicative in inflammation as well, because leptin expression is under complex control. Leptin expression is inhibited by androgens and is stimulated by estrogen, so men, should naturally have lower levels of leptin anyway. Leptin expression has been shown to be increased by sex steroids, glucocorticoids, cytokines, and toxins released during acute infection. Mice with leptin deficiency have higher levels of testosterone.

    So, what is their point again? Oh, right, more cherrypicked science and distorted facts.
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  5. #155
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    I believe that a number of people reported him as being rude and that's what got him banned. I reported him, too, but I didn't notice he had already been banned, so it wasn't my doing.

    You know, after those Peat people finally explained that it wasn't really about eating sugar all day long and actually described their diet, it was like oh that's just primal with more dairy and fruit. Big deal. I eat like that now and then myself. But this charlii guy was never going to be like that. He was cray-cray.
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  6. #156
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    Taubes and Lustig are very 2011... I would have hoped this discussion could have moved on and progressed by now. Ray Peat has most of the answers about obesity, which is the caused mostly by vegetable oils and grains (eg fast food) and the lack of restraint a whole new generation apparently has, probably due to being spoiled by their parents (and society in general).

  7. #157
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    Taubes and Lustig never had their time, as they've never been correct.
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  8. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timthetaco View Post
    Did you even read what he was writing, Otzi?
    Of course I read it. This isn't much different than the 1000 other threads just like it. I guess I just never saw anyone banned before. I thought a moderator took it upon themselves to do it, but if it was because of people's complaints, that's different.

    If that's what it takes, I'm surprised Zach, Derp, ChocoTaco, and I weren't banned in the Paleobird heyday. I just hate seeing banishments. Rude people should be dealt with by not talking to them, or ignoring them. Despite his tone, I thought this was a good thread--it even got Lazarus involved. Lots of people have similar conclusions as the OP, it's nice to hammer them out like this.

  9. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Lots of people have similar conclusions as the OP, it's nice to hammer them out like this.
    Really, it isn't.

    It's fine to disagree with people, but not to insult them.
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  10. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Of course I read it. This isn't much different than the 1000 other threads just like it. I guess I just never saw anyone banned before. I thought a moderator took it upon themselves to do it, but if it was because of people's complaints, that's different.

    If that's what it takes, I'm surprised Zach, Derp, ChocoTaco, and I weren't banned in the Paleobird heyday. I just hate seeing banishments. Rude people should be dealt with by not talking to them, or ignoring them. Despite his tone, I thought this was a good thread--it even got Lazarus involved. Lots of people have similar conclusions as the OP, it's nice to hammer them out like this.
    I'm honestly still here waiting for the evidence that white sugar is harmful in and of itself. Whenever I asked for citations, or proof, it gets tap danced around. You can't with a straight face honestly believe refined sugar has contributed to all the ailments that people claim it does, yet offer no conclusive evidence, and only show that white sugar is harmful in either obscene amounts, coupled with seed oils, or not even sucrose itself. People seem to lump them all together.

    Half of the conditions can be explained away by huge sugar intake and lack of proper nutrients, honestly. I argued with Paleobird about it for a while, and she usually resulted in linking CW articles about teeth and then calling me a bunch of names like "junkie".
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