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Thread: Evidence that Taubes and Lustig are both wrong!!! page 11

  1. #101
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    Like the great man Jimmi once said "No reason to get excited"
    Man seeks to change the foods available in nature to suit his tastes, thereby putting an end to the very essence of life contained in them.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by MaceyUK View Post
    Like the great man Jimmi once said "No reason to get excited"
    Wasn't it his great buddy Bob who said it first ?

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by KimchiNinja View Post
    Yeah but both Taubes and Lustig are probably more or less right, or at least more right than the public health "experts".

    Taubes just points out that starting in the early 1800s this idea that sugar/carbs makes you fat has been around, and there has been a lot of evidence it is in fact true. That evidence has been ignored by public health people.

    Lustig just points out that sugar is really freakin' bad, and probably the cause of lots of problems (same thing Weston Price observed in his travels).
    Yes, exactly. Also, Taubes documents something that I have personally lived through. The mass changing of the American diet. I remember back in the 70s if you ordered the diet plate it was a hamburger patty, cottage cheese and a melon wedge. Everybody else ate chicken and dumplings, turkey with gravy sandwiches and mashed potatoes with real butter, or steak and potatoes. When mom made cookies she used real butter or crisco. We often had bacon and eggs, pot roast on Sunday, sometimes even steak. I believe at one point steak was cheaper than chicken. Good mid-western cuisine dripping in butter and lard or crisco (crisco made things lighter and flakier so that's why we used it.)

    Then in 1980 they said that lard and butter and steak and eggs were bad for you and would give you heart disease. They also told us they made you fat. So now the diet plate became pasta primavera. We all stopped eating steak and switched to pasta and bread. We bought fat-free cheese, fat-free cookies, baked potato chips. Everybody who said all the junk food is equally fat to carb wasn't there in the 80s. Fat-free sour cream, fat-free salad dressing, Pam to spray your pan so you didn't use any fat to cook with. The ratio of carbs to fat in the diet changed hugely and the protein went down since meat was going to kill you (only eat one serving the size of a pack of playing cards, blah blah blah.)

    I'm now old enough to have grand-children. What I think happened is such a fat-free diet messed up the delicate balance of hormones and set off mutagenic or teratogenic processes. The children today are getting diabetes II in childhood now. The people today who are obese gave up on fat-free everything and just said screw it. They are the ones who are doing the high crap fat, high crap sugar to excess, but they were probably also born broken, making it worse. Meanwhile, food is very expensive and our salaries are worse than they were in the 70s so to hide the fact that we actually can't afford good food anymore, there are subsidies and other structures both formal and informal in place to make food cheaper by filling it with crap fillers and cheap processed commodity ingredients. Turkeys injected with fake butter and brine seem juicy and good for thanksgiving. Spaghetti sauce in a jar with a significant portion of the calories replaced with corn syrup seems like a good value. Heck, even black pepper cut with sugar is $2 cheaper than real black pepper. So now, even people who are trying to be decent and healthy have fewer options for healthy ingredients and even thin and relatively healthy people are getting diabetes and struggling to keep the weight off once they hit 40.

    But you (charlii) can go ahead and pretend that none of this happened and continue your bizarre fight against two people who speak more eloquently and learnedly than you, people who have actually done research and helped people. And for what purpose, I don't know. I wonder what you get out of it? Some kind of feeling of superiority? It's a train wreck to watch you writhe and froth at the mouth around here.

    Quote Originally Posted by KimchiNinja View Post
    Stop.

    Just please, stop the insanity. I'm so sick of Westerners babbling on about "yeah but Asia does it so we can too!". Guess what? It's not working for you so shut up. Also unless you get on an airplane and live in Asia, you don't know shit.
    Exactly. I went backpacking with a Japanese man. His wife made him bring healthy foods on the trip. He really just wanted to taste all the great American junk food. What do Americans usually bring backpacking? Mac-and-cheese, Mountain House, granola, peanuts etc. What do Japanese? Dried steamed brown rice, seaweed, natto, chicken, pork and beef, dried green veggies and carrots.

    Quote Originally Posted by charlii View Post
    This is typical of anyone in the western world who isn't overweight, do the people who are lean eat paleo or even any whole foods? No. They all eat white flour, factory eggs, grain fed meat especially high omega 6 pork and chicken. The only difference is they don't binge out on sugar containing foods. Some eat their fair share, but like not all smokers get lung cancer not all people are susceptible to the hyper rewarding effects of palatable foods.
    The people who are lean are not saying "fuck it" because they weren't born damaged by 3 generations of low-fat, cholesterol will kill you, meat will kill you messaging. They probably prioritize meat, even processed meat, over pastries when they shop. The ones who are trying really hard to be healthy are eating vegetarian or eating tiny amounts of meat and not getting enough protein. They're afraid of cholesterol so they aren't getting the building blocks of sex hormones and are getting fertility treatments and little blue pills. Some diet and exercise themselves to extremes. The lucky ones probably had grandmas and moms who kept on cooking with lard, butter and crisco, who kept serving pot roast for dinner and pork chops. Or beans with a ham hock or whatever. The sick and obese said fuck it long ago and just eat whatever tastes good.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchFry View Post
    Wasn't it his great buddy Bob who said it first ?
    I stand corrected....but Jimmi said it better...even Bob admitted that
    Man seeks to change the foods available in nature to suit his tastes, thereby putting an end to the very essence of life contained in them.
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  5. #105
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    sbhikes..I can come to no other conclusion other that you are a simple minded sheep repeating the only thing you understand. You don't even get my point it's like trying to teach an autistic 5 year old. At no point have I said any of the things your are claiming, I eat a high fat diet plenty of butter, eggs, fatty meat and no point have I said fats are bad other than omega 6 oils. My point is carbohydrates do not cause obesity and fructose doesn't cause obesity because of fatty liver....bread, potatoes, milk and fruit have been eaten for thousands of years with no obesity anywhere. To me you just seemed overwhelmed by the point I am making and are doing the usual low carber backed into a corner bullsh*t which makes you look like a complete idiot to anyone with above average intelligence. The problem here is not that I am wrong but your brain is incapable of grasping the point.

  6. #106
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    Just because someone disagrees with you doesn't mean they don't understand or that they are stupid. Dawkins vs Gandhi would illustrate the point.
    Man seeks to change the foods available in nature to suit his tastes, thereby putting an end to the very essence of life contained in them.
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    She clearly doesn't understand because she is saying I am wrong because obesity has increased as fat consumption has gone down. I 100% agree that a diet high eggs, butter, meats and saturated & monounsaturated in general is optimum I have never said fats are the enemy other than omega 6. My point is carbohydrates in general do not cause obesity. The reason low carb diets work is because you take sugar from the diet, not carbs. She clearly does not understand.

  8. #108
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    Your powers of reductionist thinking are unsurpassed, charlii.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 180 x 2. Current Deadlift: 230 x 2

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    Your powers of reductionist thinking are unsurpassed, charlii.
    Explain to us all where I have gone wrong then?

  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by charlii View Post
    sbhikes..I can come to no other conclusion other that you are a simple minded sheep repeating the only thing you understand. You don't even get my point it's like trying to teach an autistic 5 year old. At no point have I said any of the things your are claiming, I eat a high fat diet plenty of butter, eggs, fatty meat and no point have I said fats are bad other than omega 6 oils. My point is carbohydrates do not cause obesity and fructose doesn't cause obesity because of fatty liver....bread, potatoes, milk and fruit have been eaten for thousands of years with no obesity anywhere. To me you just seemed overwhelmed by the point I am making and are doing the usual low carber backed into a corner bullsh*t which makes you look like a complete idiot to anyone with above average intelligence. The problem here is not that I am wrong but your brain is incapable of grasping the point.
    take it down a notch with the insults or you'll be the next one on the banned list. doesn't take a genius to understand that you're being beyond offensive to a lot of people when you start spouting comments like that
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