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  1. #11
    OldSchhool's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    what about dumbbell flyes?
    No, they kind of try in that they allow the arms to come together but the resistance starts to act in the wrong direction after a certain point. You squeeze them together at the top but there is no resistance on the pecs per se. Doing flyes between a cable crossover from the bottom pulleys would provide resistance through the full arc.


    Regarding the bench press I think there is actually a bar with moveable sleeves seperated by a spring, that would go a long way to providing a full ROM even though the tension at the top is caused by the spring and not the resistance.
    Last edited by OldSchhool; 10-15-2013 at 03:25 PM.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchhool View Post
    No, they kind of try in that they allow the arms to come together but the resistance starts to act in the wrong direction after a certain point. You squeeze them together at the top but there is no resistance on the pecs per se. Doing flyes between a cable crossover from the bottom pulleys would provide resistance through the full arc.


    Regarding the bench press I think there is actually a bar with moveable sleeves seperated by a spring, that would go a long way to providing a full ROM even though the tension at the top is caused by the spring and not the resistance.
    Man, pecs are weird. Like there's no way in nature to really use them fully.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Man, pecs are weird. Like there's no way in nature to really use them fully.
    Pectoralis Mayor is more like a cluster of different muscles focusing on different tasks...

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Man, pecs are weird. Like there's no way in nature to really use them fully.
    A boxers cross punch would be one of the few ' real life ' actions !

    I guess this guy had a similar idea when he made this video:

    Last edited by OldSchhool; 10-15-2013 at 09:33 PM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Do you mean down 20%? I can't believe your squats are down from 500 lbs to 100, or from 250 to 50...
    Yes. Sorry, I edited that sentence. Thanks.

  6. #16
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    By compound movements I mean exercises or lifts that require movement about more than one joint. I think that's the best way of putting it. Because while barbell curls and calf raises involve more than just one muscle, those secondary muscles are only contracting statically, produce no movement, and therefore can't count as compound movements by my definition.

    By isolation exercises I mean exercises that require movement only about one joint. So while barbell curls and calf raises involve more than one muscle as stabilizers, they are isolation movements. They target one specific muscle.

    I think that's a good thing to take note of because contrary to common belief, you don't need the muscle to be worked through the full range of motion in order to work it well. You just need a good contraction. And in some situations a muscle can be required to contract hard in order to stabilize and make the joint remain in a static position. Take the farmers walk for example. With that the traps and wrists contract statically to hold the weight, but but it makes your wrists and traps HUGE when compared to any other movement that I've ever done. Shrugs and other pulls can't even compare.

    Anyways, the main point of my original post was that isolation exercises surely have their place. For a muscle that isn't getting worked to it's fullest extent with the compound movements you are choosing, spending even a few minutes at the end of your workout with an isolation movement for that specific muscle could be just what will do the trick.

    For example, the triceps get worked in the bench press and will get big from it over time. If you work the bench press hard and the triceps are still lagging and holding you back, triceps extensions of some sort should help.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripped View Post
    By compound movements I mean exercises or lifts that require movement about more than one joint. I think that's the best way of putting it. Because while barbell curls and calf raises involve more than just one muscle, those secondary muscles are only contracting statically, produce no movement, and therefore can't count as compound movements by my definition.

    By isolation exercises I mean exercises that require movement only about one joint. So while barbell curls and calf raises involve more than one muscle as stabilizers, they are isolation movements. They target one specific muscle.

    I think that's a good thing to take note of because contrary to common belief, you don't need the muscle to be worked through the full range of motion in order to work it well. You just need a good contraction. And in some situations a muscle can be required to contract hard in order to stabilize and make the joint remain in a static position. Take the farmers walk for example. With that the traps and wrists contract statically to hold the weight, but but it makes your wrists and traps HUGE when compared to any other movement that I've ever done. Shrugs and other pulls can't even compare.

    Anyways, the main point of my original post was that isolation exercises surely have their place. For a muscle that isn't getting worked to it's fullest extent with the compound movements you are choosing, spending even a few minutes at the end of your workout with an isolation movement for that specific muscle could be just what will do the trick.

    For example, the triceps get worked in the bench press and will get big from it over time. If you work the bench press hard and the triceps are still lagging and holding you back, triceps extensions of some sort should help.
    I would highly doubt someone who is strong in the bench press would suffer weak triceps. The bench press to me is a primary tricep/shoulder exercise that also happens to involve the chest albeit to a limited degree. I'd expect the more likely scenario would be that their pec development might suffer if they are the type that uses a lot of front delt during their presses.

    I do agree that some muscle groups might need some specialisation though, side delts come immediately to mind as many people find their front delts dominate when doing compound press movements.The forearms and neck might also benefit from extra work.
    Last edited by OldSchhool; 10-16-2013 at 08:36 AM.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchhool View Post
    I would highly doubt someone who is strong in the bench press would suffer weak triceps.
    Now you're talking sense!

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Man, pecs are weird. Like there's no way in nature to really use them fully.
    I see what you did there.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ripped View Post
    By compound movements I mean exercises or lifts that require movement about more than one joint. I think that's the best way of putting it. Because while barbell curls and calf raises involve more than just one muscle, those secondary muscles are only contracting statically, produce no movement, and therefore can't count as compound movements by my definition.

    By isolation exercises I mean exercises that require movement only about one joint. So while barbell curls and calf raises involve more than one muscle as stabilizers, they are isolation movements. They target one specific muscle.
    Front delts, pectoralis minor and other muscles are contracting in barbell curl, and I am sore as hell today in my abs from the lying triceps extensions and barbell curls that I did yesterday, so I am not sure that your distinction is sound here...

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