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Thread: Question about how to eat sauerkraut....bit confused page 2

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceangrl View Post
    Well, we'll see how this goes. I am just using what I have. I'm using a 1.5 qt tall jar with a flip top attached lid with a rubber gasket. I removed the lid and have the jar covered with a cloth. It's in the same darkish, not freezing room as my kombucha so the room has good mojo. Everything is covered with liquid by several inches except for floating bits. I'll watch for mold. Hopefully, I won't have to buy a special crock.

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    As Jimm said, you only need to allow for the CO2 to escape. I use a Korean kimchi crock, which just has a lid that sits on top - no seal. Sits on my kitchen bench
    Four years Primal with influences from Jaminet & Shanahan and a focus on being anti-inflammatory. Using Primal to treat CVD and prevent stents from blocking free of drugs.

    Eat creatures nose-to-tail (animal, fowl, fish, crustacea, molluscs), a large variety of vegetables (raw, cooked and fermented, including safe starches), dairy (cheese & yoghurt), occasional fruit, cocoa, turmeric & red wine

  2. #12
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    Just took a leaf of cabbage and covered the liquid with it and weighted it down with a weighted glass. No more floating bits exposed. Then I covered the lot with a cloth to keep any fruit flies or dust out. I think this is gonna work. Fingers crossed.

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    It's counterintuitive to me that I can just store it in the fridge, not submerged.

  4. #14
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    Saber, you really can. Sealing the jar and putting it in a cold environment stops fermentation and inhibits bacterial growth. Same with Kombucha, cheeses, doughs etc.

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    I'm trying to get a fermentation group going but haven't had time to nurture it. There you can see the airlock mason jar lids I made for about $2.50 each (identical ones sell on line for almost $20).

    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum/group173.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by oceangrl View Post
    Well, we'll see how this goes. I am just using what I have. I'm using a 1.5 qt tall jar with a flip top attached lid with a rubber gasket. I removed the lid and have the jar covered with a cloth. It's in the same darkish, not freezing room as my kombucha so the room has good mojo. Everything is covered with liquid by several inches except for floating bits. I'll watch for mold. Hopefully, I won't have to buy a special crock.
    Rubber gasket style "fido" lids work great for Sauerkraut. You should have left it on. Easiest way to make kraut and practically no chance of mold that way.
    My Recipes are at: www.southbeachprimal.com

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by SouthBeachPrimal View Post
    Rubber gasket style "fido" lids work great for Sauerkraut. You should have left it on. Easiest way to make kraut and practically no chance of mold that way.
    So confused because everything I've read says dont close it up. How do the gasses get out if you clamp it shut? Do you open it to let them out and then clamp it shut again?

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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sabre View Post
    It's counterintuitive to me that I can just store it in the fridge, not submerged.
    Quote Originally Posted by oceangrl View Post
    So confused because everything I've read says don't close it up. How do the gasses get out if you clamp it shut? Do you open it to let them out and then clamp it shut again?
    You're dealing with live organisms here. Eventually they die or go quiescent. Beer & wine & champagne is hermetically sealed, right? This is when you take a fruit or grain containing sugars like fructose or maltose and add a live culture, yeast (often saccharomyces cerevisiae). The sugar is food to the yeast. There is a finite amount of sugar in this confined container. Once the yeast use up the sugar, they die (or once the high concentration of their waste, ethanol, kills them) or they become greatly reduced in number. Then it is safe to close up the system without too much fear of explosion. There are sometime secondary in-the-bottle fermentation but there are many ways to make booze.

    Fermenting food functions the same way, it's just a much more complex number of organisms involved producing many more by-products. The key player is not a yeast, but a bacteria of the genus Lactobacillus. similar to yeast. It produces carbon dioxide and lactate anaerobically just as you do when you exercise and use aerobic metabolism.

    If you're not a science junky, I don't recommend you go off and research aerobic vs anaerobic metabolism in order to understand this. You don't need to know the science to do this perfectly (or to have a fish tank or to keep a compost pile in your yard). The science is less than 200 years old. Using fermentation to feed us is at least 6000 years old. However once you are comfortable with the practice, learning the science of what you are doing will help you to fine tune & tweak your process. Plus it's way-cool.

    Temperature comes into play because these are cold blooded organisms (there are ectotherms, poikilotherms, etc). Their mitotic rate of growth, respiration and activity is temperature-related. Goldfish are cold-blooded, too. If you take two 1" goldfish from the same spawn and put them into separate but identical fish tanks, only one is 10 degrees warmer than the other, the warmer goldfish will grow faster, eat more and produce more waste (give THAT to your kids for a science project!).

    The same is true with bacteria in your ferment. Your fermentation (making beer, kombucha, sauerkraut, whatever) will happen much faster at 70F than 60F. If you use an air lock you can verify this by counting the number of air bubbles per hour (give THAT to your kids for a science project!). And conversely, once the lactobacillus have used up a great deal of their fuel then go into refrigerator temperatures, they pretty much go dormant and produce no gasses.

    This hasn't been mentioned in the conversation but another HUGE factor is surface area. If you make a ferment with food cut up into 1"x1" squares, and the same ferment with food chopped fine or run through a food processor, the finely-chopped stuff will ferment absurdly faster.

    Here is what I do, stepwise:

    1. Chop up food (fine chop)
    2. mix with unprocessed sea salt (~3tbsp/quart)
    3. pack it into mason jars
    4. tamp down with a rolling pin that does not have handles (essentially a dowel) until liquid is over food
    4. leave no more than 1" head space (if I have to top off with a brine, I use a 150g salt in 1 gallon water brine or juice more veggies).
    5. put home-made airlock lid onto mason jar, leave on kitchen counter (in a tray in case one blows up as one always does).
    6. wait until gas production through the air lock peaks, then slows. The amount of salt you use and the amount of time you allow the ferment to happen is personal taste. Keep good records of what you did & what you like.
    7. Once gas production is barely happening, take the airlock lids off and seal up air-tight for storage in cool dark basement.
    8. Take one jar out of storage and open to consume, keep opened container in fridge with air-tight closure.

    Sandor Katz is the popular authority on this. I suggest watching all of the Youtube videos you can find featuring him. His book "The Art of Fermentation" is an incredible text book, but possibly overwhelming for a beginner. I recommend his "Wild Fermentation" first. I've met him at one of his seminars- a really engaging and entertaining guy. Sally Fallon Morel also has lots to say on the subject.

    ~Jimm
    Last edited by Jimm; 10-14-2013 at 09:13 AM.

  9. #19
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    I have been brewing my own booch for about 9 months. I use a continuous brew. Sometimes I'll make a batch brew if I want to share. I only close it up during second ferment and flavoring. So..that is probably what has me confused.

    So Jimm (love the comments about the science projects), should I put the lid and gasket back on my fido jug and just burp it every day or two or just leave it with the cloth cover? Can I buy the lids with the spout for my fido jars?

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  10. #20
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    Thanks! Gotta keeps the kids enriched, out of trouble and more importantly quiet!

    I may be crossing the conversation streams. When I speak generally about lactofermentation, I'm thinking of something like sauerkraut.

    I should have established that a kombucha/vinegar process is not the same as making sauerkraut. A SCOBY is a colony and there are both aerobic and anaerobic processes going on. It should be done in a warm, open vessel with cloth or something that hopefully only lets air through, not mold spores.

    here's Sandor's take
    Making kombucha, an excerpt from 'The Art of Fermentation' | The Splendid Table

    Fermeting (like sauerkraut) with a fido lid should be sealed tight with occasional burping. kombucha should not be sealed with a fido lid. I haven't seen airlock lids for fido jars. You might be able to use the balloon method if you can find one that will stretch over the jar lid (Trojan Magnums?)

    waterbottlewithballoonscience.jpg

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