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  1. #641
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    Let's picture the health care utopia that Grizz is envisioning. I'll just go for the obvious stuff, and let others fill in the minor details with their own minds.

    First of all, anyone can declare him or herself a doctor, hang out a shingle, and start practicing medicine. No training or education is required. Perhaps this is not exactly what Grizz means to happen, but I have personally spoken to libertarians who believe that it is not the business of the government to keep untrained people from calling themselves "doctors" and practicing "medicine". They can make up their own credentials. There would be no way to verify a doctor's qualifications, except perhaps to try to see if anybody in your neighborhood knew if a particular doctor had injured or killed anybody they knew of. They can certify themselves, like Rand Paul has done in order to suck at the government teat and earn a good living sponging off Medicare. They can sell any product or treatment they want to, no testing necessary.

    There might be doctors who prescribe the exact same treatment for any and every illness. Maybe iodine.

    There would no longer be any regulation of insurance companies. States could not set minimum benefit requirements. In fact, an insurance company can charge money but never actually pay out benefits, and you would be out of luck if you got sick to find that getting sick means your insurance was canceled. And if enough people found out that their insurance company was a scam, their premium money was wasted, and they were going to go bankrupt from unpaid medical bills, and the company's business was hurt by this, they could just change their name and victimize the same people all over again.

    Doctors could sell their own insurance products, requiring patients to purchase these products as a condition for getting treatment. No insurance, no treatment. But as with insurance companies, they could drop you and keep the money you paid if it looked like your treatment was going to be inconveniently time-consuming or costly.

    Import Canadian drugs, sounds good. Why not import from every country, like used to happen before those nasty regulations stopped that? Well of course in the libertarian health care utopia you could buy any drug you want over the internet without a prescription. No need for the government to regulate safety, effectiveness, dosage, or purity. It's a violation of the rights of the drug manufacturer to sell their product if the government wants proper labeling on drugs. Sure, buy your psychiatric drugs over the internet, dose yourself, and die as my girlfriend did.

    And if one of these quack doctors kills you or a family member, it's your own damned fault. Suck it up and deal with it. No more lawsuits to recover compensation when a doctor injures you through incompetence. Pay the lifetime costs of extended care for the person who used to be your breadwinner out of your own pocket. Don't have the millions of dollars it would take? Live in poverty and die from the inability to afford the treatments they need to survive.

    Sounds wonderful. We can all go down together.
    In a free market "utopia," if you don't trust a doctor's credentials, you can always go pick another. It would be the same with insurance companies. If a company has a reputation for denying coverage, there would be others ready to take their business with better service.

    Government isn't required to ensure a product's quality. There are already commercial services that do this (Underwriters Laboratories with all kinds of stuff and Popular Mechanics with new cars). This is currently the case with most of the supplements that I use (whey, creatine). The FDA doesn't regulate them, so I must rely on reviews from fellow consumers. It's working well.

    If a doctor killed people from negligence, they most likely would never see another patient. Even if they're not sued for a hefty sum, nobody would want to go see a doctor that has a good chance of killing them.

    People should look out for each other. But government isn't needed for that. People are happy to give.
    In matters of style, swim with the current. In matters of principle, stand like a rock.

    This message has been intercepted by the NSA, the only branch of government that listens.

  2. #642
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    Quote Originally Posted by eKatherine View Post
    Let's picture the health care utopia that Grizz is envisioning. I'll just go for the obvious stuff, and let others fill in the minor details with their own minds.

    First of all, anyone can declare him or herself a doctor, hang out a shingle, and start practicing medicine. No training or education is required. Perhaps this is not exactly what Grizz means to happen, but I have personally spoken to libertarians who believe that it is not the business of the government to keep untrained people from calling themselves "doctors" and practicing "medicine". They can make up their own credentials. There would be no way to verify a doctor's qualifications, except perhaps to try to see if anybody in your neighborhood knew if a particular doctor had injured or killed anybody they knew of. They can certify themselves, like Rand Paul has done in order to suck at the government teat and earn a good living sponging off Medicare. They can sell any product or treatment they want to, no testing necessary.

    There might be doctors who prescribe the exact same treatment for any and every illness. Maybe iodine.

    There would no longer be any regulation of insurance companies. States could not set minimum benefit requirements. In fact, an insurance company can charge money but never actually pay out benefits, and you would be out of luck if you got sick to find that getting sick means your insurance was canceled. And if enough people found out that their insurance company was a scam, their premium money was wasted, and they were going to go bankrupt from unpaid medical bills, and the company's business was hurt by this, they could just change their name and victimize the same people all over again.

    Doctors could sell their own insurance products, requiring patients to purchase these products as a condition for getting treatment. No insurance, no treatment. But as with insurance companies, they could drop you and keep the money you paid if it looked like your treatment was going to be inconveniently time-consuming or costly.

    Import Canadian drugs, sounds good. Why not import from every country, like used to happen before those nasty regulations stopped that? Well of course in the libertarian health care utopia you could buy any drug you want over the internet without a prescription. No need for the government to regulate safety, effectiveness, dosage, or purity. It's a violation of the rights of the drug manufacturer to sell their product if the government wants proper labeling on drugs. Sure, buy your psychiatric drugs over the internet, dose yourself, and die as my girlfriend did.

    And if one of these quack doctors kills you or a family member, it's your own damned fault. Suck it up and deal with it. No more lawsuits to recover compensation when a doctor injures you through incompetence. Pay the lifetime costs of extended care for the person who used to be your breadwinner out of your own pocket. Don't have the millions of dollars it would take? Live in poverty and die from the inability to afford the treatments they need to survive.

    Sounds wonderful. We can all go down together.
    Tell your BS story to the woman I cured of Terminal Uterus Cancer in my little community. Her doctors sent her to Home Hospice to DIE. They gave up on her. I gave her and her best friend a copy the amazing book, The Iodine Crisis: What You Don't Know About Iodine Can Wreck Your Life
    The Iodine Crisis: What You Don't Know About Iodine Can Wreck Your Life: Lynne Farrow, David Brownstein MD: 9780986032004: Amazon.com: Books
    Within 6 months of starting the Dr. Brownstein Iodine Protocol described in the book, she was CURED !

    Tell your BS story to this woman's best friend, who was suffering with Fibrocystic Breast Disease for over 20 years! Doctors could only think of VERY EXPENSIVE double Mastectomy, or expensive PAIN Killerr drugs. Within 1 month of reading the Iodine Crises Book, her painful, swollen breasts were cured for the 1st time in over 20 years. She says, "No One Will Take My Iodine From Me."

    Tell your BS story to our mail lady. I gave her a copy of the Iodine Crises Book, and within 1 month her painful fibrocystic breasts were cured. I bought over a dozen of these books to give away to neighbors & church members. And these people ordered almost 100 books from me for their friends & relatives.

    Should I be arrested for practicing medicine without a license???

    Get real. Give people some credit for having some common sense. They are not going to see a backyard mechanic for brain surgery. Let the buyer beware and find the best health care that makes them happy.

    If people were told the TRUTH by the FDA, they would not eat bread & all products made from wheat, and health care costs would plummet. There are 2 excellent books that describe the horrors of Wheat on human health:
    1) The Wheat Belly Book by Dr. Davis:
    Wheat Belly Blog | Lose the Wheat Lose the Weight

    2) Wheat Brain, by Dr. Perlmutter
    The devastating truth about the effects of wheat, sugar, and carbs on the brain, with a 30-day plan to achieve optimum health.
    Renowned neurologist David Perlmutter, MD, blows the lid off a topic that's been buried in medical literature for far too long: carbs are destroying your brain. And not just unhealthy carbs, but even healthy ones like whole grains can cause dementia, ADHD, anxiety, chronic headaches, depression, an Wheat causes the Alzheimers Epidemic
    Grain Brain: The Surprising Truth about Wheat, Carbs, and Sugar--Your Brain's Silent Killers: David Perlmutter, Kristin Loberg: 9780316234801: Amazon.com: Books

    Tell your BS story to our neighbor. Why aren't doctors telling their patients about wheat? We have a neighbor who lost 100 lbs in 1 year when I told her to stop eating wheat. Her diabetes became manageable with far less drugs. Why did her doctor keep prescribing more & more diabetes drugs instead of telling her about wheat??? I let her borrow my copy of the Wheat Belly Book. She and many others got SUPERIOR healthcare from my efforts. Many doctors are simply high priced DRUG PUSHERS!

    What about THIS poor woman?
    "I am now a true Iodine believer. I suffered for over 30 years with PCOS, debilitating IBS, chronic allergies and upper respiratory infections,(including six bouts of pneumonia and many more of bronchitis and sinusitis), widespread eczema, fibrocystic breast disease, chronic fatigue and other hypothyroid-like symptoms such as weight gain and depression, asthma, heart arrythmias, and many other minor and chronic issues, finally culminating in Breast Cancer five years ago, and the removal of one ovary due to severe cysts. At one point, a doctor explained to me that we would be looking for one cause for all the problems, rather than many problems in the same body, which made sense. So needless to say, I went from doctor-to-doctor for years, searching for the underlying cause of all these many problems, with not much more than a pat on the hand and a lecture to watch my diet and get more exercise. In the meantime, my marriage, family and entire life were seriously impacted. I finally stumbled across the concept of iodine supplementation on the web — a simple pop-up ad did for me what all those doctors and their fancy degrees could not. Looking at the list of possible symptoms of iodine deficiency was like looking at my own medical history, and I couldn’t start taking it fast enough. After one month on 50mg of iodine, my IBS disappeared, after over 30 years of daily misery. And I mean DISAPPEARED. It was like a miracle for me. My energy picked up significantly. My skin stopped flaking, my hair became shiny again, and I haven’t broken a nail in three months — I’ve never experienced that in my whole life. I have to file them down weekly! My eczema is greatly improved. My one remaining breast is smoother, and less painful around my period. My allergies are also significantly improved, and getting better. My heartbeat is much more regular now. In short, I have seen improvement or complete resolution of nearly ALL of my symptoms, and the improvements continue, after four months now. It truly is amazing. The impact that this small amount of iodine has had on my health cannot be overlooked or overstated. My one continuing hope is that I’ll lose some weight, and I believe that it’s only a matter of time.

    It’s really a tragedy that most doctors still refuse to believe that iodine can help with these kinds of problems, and, indeed, are afraid to supplement for fear of poisoning their patients. I’ve never felt better in my whole life, taking the kind of dose that many warn will cause a toxic overdose! Ignorance abounds, and I see so many women who clearly suffer from iodine deficiency, and will likely suffer for the rest of their lives, because of this ignorance. I’m so glad I found my own answers, and I hope this will help others to do the same!
    http://www.paleoplan.com/2012/09-10/...comment-186705

    I can totally agree with this woman about doctors. Iodine Used to be the Universal Medicine prior to WWII, but the drug companies have since erased the entire record and are now fighting against iodine.

    More on iodine:
    http://tinyurl.com/iodine-references
    http://tinyurl.com/iodine-testimonials
    Many of these testimonials came from this message board ! See the Iodine Thread for details.

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 11-10-2013 at 08:30 AM.

  3. #643
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    Grizz..you truly are crazy. Or..you are very bored.

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

  4. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceangrl View Post
    Grizz..you truly are crazy. Or..you are very bored.

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
    Tell that to people who were cured through my efforts. Tell us what you have done to help your sickly, suffering, obese neighbors.

    Yes I know I am wasting my time but even if a few people are listening, I WIN! BTW, I have received many questions about iodine since posting this thread. If anyone has questions, ask them here:
    http://www.marksdailyapple.com/forum...ml#post1353421

    The Progressive Party Left Wing Nuts aren't expected to listen.

    Did you know that Hillary is being showered with BIG MONEY by Billionaire George Soros. The Hillary Care Single Payer system is in the wings waiting to rescue Obama Care. Hillary is a self described "Progressive" & PROUD of it!
    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013...nance-council/

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 11-10-2013 at 08:52 AM.

  5. #645
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    I vote for crazy, OG. Brainwashed & living in an alternate universe, it seems. Ah well, back to my garden cleanup, sunshine & fresh air.
    Starting Weight: 197.5
    Current Weight: 123
    Lost 75# eating low carb (20-40 g) and then MDA primal low carb. Tried many other options but only LC helped me lose weight and improve health. Now at a good weight, I find my body can tolerate a few more carbs but rarely go over 100 g.

  6. #646
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post
    Tell that to people who were cured through my efforts. Tell us what you have done to help your sickly, suffering, obese neighbors.

    Grizz
    Umm..looking around. My neighbors appear quite healthy and are definitely not obese. You truly are nuts.

    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk

  7. #647
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    I loathe my neighbors in this nice area I moved to a few years ago. They're absolutely crazy and they make me miss my old drug-dealing neighbors in the crappy area I used to live in. At least the drug deals were quiet, their dogs were under control, and the police were always very friendly to me on their regular stops to the street to pick up parole violators.

  8. #648
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    Quote Originally Posted by oceangrl View Post
    Umm..looking around. My neighbors appear quite healthy and are definitely not obese. You truly are nuts.
    Sent from my SGH-T989 using Tapatalk
    Oceangrl,

    Thank you for that label,calling me a nut. What are you?
    * A Troll?
    * Just plain RUDE?
    * A Progressive following the Rules for Radicals? I know, you are following Rule # 5, because I am exposing the Left & I must be stopped:

    * RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.” There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)

    The rest of Rules For Radicals:
    Here is the complete list from Alinsky.
    * RULE 1: “Power is not only what you have, but what the enemy thinks you have.”
    Power is derived from 2 main sources – money and people. “Have-Nots” must build power from flesh and blood. (These are two things of which there is a plentiful supply. Government and corporations always have a difficult time appealing to people, and usually do so almost exclusively with economic arguments.)
    * RULE 2: “Never go outside the expertise of your people.”
    It results in confusion, fear and retreat. Feeling secure adds to the backbone of anyone. (Organizations under attack wonder why radicals don’t address the “real” issues. This is why. They avoid things with which they have no knowledge.)
    * RULE 3: “Whenever possible, go outside the expertise of the enemy.”
    Look for ways to increase insecurity, anxiety and uncertainty. (This happens all the time. Watch how many organizations under attack are blind-sided by seemingly irrelevant arguments that they are then forced to address.)
    * RULE 4: “Make the enemy live up to its own book of rules.”
    If the rule is that every letter gets a reply, send 30,000 letters. You can kill them with this because no one can possibly obey all of their own rules. (This is a serious rule. The besieged entity’s very credibility and reputation is at stake, because if activists catch it lying or not living up to its commitments, they can continue to chip away at the damage.)
    * RULE 5: “Ridicule is man’s most potent weapon.”
    There is no defense. It’s irrational. It’s infuriating. It also works as a key pressure point to force the enemy into concessions. (Pretty crude, rude and mean, huh? They want to create anger and fear.)
    * RULE 6: “A good tactic is one your people enjoy.”
    They’ll keep doing it without urging and come back to do more. They’re doing their thing, and will even suggest better ones. (Radical activists, in this sense, are no different that any other human being. We all avoid “un-fun” activities, and but we revel at and enjoy the ones that work and bring results.)
    * RULE 7: “A tactic that drags on too long becomes a drag.”
    Don’t become old news. (Even radical activists get bored. So to keep them excited and involved, organizers are constantly coming up with new tactics.)
    * RULE 8: “Keep the pressure on. Never let up.”
    Keep trying new things to keep the opposition off balance. As the opposition masters one approach, hit them from the flank with something new. (Attack, attack, attack from all sides, never giving the reeling organization a chance to rest, regroup, recover and re-strategize.)
    * RULE 9: “The threat is usually more terrifying than the thing itself.” Imagination and ego can dream up many more consequences than any activist. (Perception is reality. Large organizations always prepare a worst-case scenario, something that may be furthest from the activists’ minds. The upshot is that the organization will expend enormous time and energy, creating in its own collective mind the direst of conclusions. The possibilities can easily poison the mind and result in demoralization.)
    * RULE 10: “If you push a negative hard enough, it will push through and become a positive.”
    Violence from the other side can win the public to your side because the public sympathizes with the underdog. (Unions used this tactic. Peaceful [albeit loud] demonstrations during the heyday of unions in the early to mid-20th Century incurred management’s wrath, often in the form of violence that eventually brought public sympathy to their side.)
    * RULE 11: “The price of a successful attack is a constructive alternative.”
    Never let the enemy score points because you’re caught without a solution to the problem. (Old saw: If you’re not part of the solution, you’re part of the problem. Activist organizations have an agenda, and their strategy is to hold a place at the table, to be given a forum to wield their power. So, they have to have a compromise solution.)
    * RULE 12: Pick the target, freeze it, personalize it, and polarize it.”
    Cut off the support network and isolate the target from sympathy. Go after people and not institutions; people hurt faster than institutions. (This is cruel, but very effective. Direct, personalized criticism and ridicule works.)

    http://www.bestofbeck.com/wp/activis...s-for-radicals
    The Progressive Left is extremely well funded & well organized, backed up by George Soros & his BILLIONS.

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 11-10-2013 at 12:02 PM.

  9. #649
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    Do You Want A Nationalized Drug Industry?

    The push to nationalize industries during the Obama era marches on. Banks are under siege with JP Morgan Chase choking on regulation and penalties that extract existing profits for government coffers. Health insurance companies are dictated as to what they can charge and what their profit margins can be. And now the official onslaught against pharmaceutical companies has been launched by the mouthpiece of the left – The New York Times. Rest of the story:
    Do You Want A Nationalized Drug Industry? - Bruce Bialosky - Page full

    A Nationalized Drug Industry = MORE COMMUNISM !
    Obama & his Czars are relentless.

    Impeach Obama. One click sends a Fax to everyone in Congress & the Senate:
    Impeach Obama Fax - Tea Party

    Grizz

  10. #650
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jefferson1775 View Post
    In a free market "utopia," if you don't trust a doctor's credentials, you can always go pick another. It would be the same with insurance companies. If a company has a reputation for denying coverage, there would be others ready to take their business with better service.
    In a free market "utopia", you will have no way to verify a doctor's credentials. And if it turns out the doctor or the insurance company is lying to you. well, not only is it not illegal, but there is no recourse to the consumer. Your insurance company didn't pay? Oh, well. Pay it all yourself.

    Government isn't required to ensure a product's quality. There are already commercial services that do this (Underwriters Laboratories with all kinds of stuff and Popular Mechanics with new cars). This is currently the case with most of the supplements that I use (whey, creatine). The FDA doesn't regulate them, so I must rely on reviews from fellow consumers. It's working well.
    Really, it is legal for them to put any sort of material in a jar and sell it to you as pure creatine, and up to the consumer to determine the safety and purity based on what? Consumers have to spend hundreds of dollars running assays to determine what's in the jar? Should someone die, who would determine this was the cause of death? I think you don't understand what regulations do and do not do.

    If a doctor killed people from negligence, they most likely would never see another patient. Even if they're not sued for a hefty sum, nobody would want to go see a doctor that has a good chance of killing them.
    This is hilarious. You have no idea how medicine works. Who is going to do the investigation to determine that the doctor is at fault, given that in the free market "utopia", consumers will not have the legal right to sue a doctor they suspect has made a medical mistake and killed a relative of theirs?

    People should look out for each other. But government isn't needed for that. People are happy to give.
    "People" are happy to run multi-million dollar investigations to determine the cause of food-borne illness. Who knew?

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