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  1. #471
    Grizz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
    @ Grizz.....I will try this one more time. Again, there are 2 questions, only 2.

    You keep on putting things up about the Constitution, and Obama's supposed distaste for it. So I pose this:
    1) What was the last Presidential administration that followed the Constitution at all, in your view?

    Obamacare's main transgression, the individual mandate, began in the early 90's as a Republican platform idea....this leads to
    2) What policies has Obama STARTED that are of significance, that have no precedence in history?

    Please understand that I spent about 300 hours volunteering to unseat Obama in 2012, and did not vote for him of course in either election.

    My point is that the right has a made-up version of Obama, that he is some kind of radical....he isn't. He is another representation of how we do things, and how we have done them for a very long time. In short, Obama is how we roll. He is how we have rolled since about 1980....he is a corporatist technocrat, in the mold of Reagan and Clinton.

    There is all of this talk about fearing we will get a one-party system. I have news; we are already there....we have ONE party, with two wings. The objective is to create the illusion of actual differences, in order to get people like Grizz and the left-wing crazies to hate each other. I can go on Democratic Underground and see legion of left-oriented Grizz characters. The will post vids and sources from MSNBC and Huffington Post, while Grizz picks Fox or Drudge Report....my reply to both sides is the same. It is all very useful anger for the powerful, as it maintains the illusion that all one side needs to do is eliminate the other....anything to keep the eyes off of the actual people behind the curtain.
    Please answer those 2 questions. I am very curious as to your viewpoint.
    Lazarus,
    I understand you are trying to pick a fight, and I am not going there. Instead we can discuss points that we agree on.

    I think we can agree on the following points:
    1) The USA has been drifting toward socialism since the 1930's when Social Security was started.
    2) Then came the Medicare, more creeping socialism
    3) Then followed by an ever growing Welfare state to the point that 50% of our population is now receiving handouts
    4) Now nearly 50 MILLION people are getting food stamps or equivalent ! ! !
    5) Now Obama is completing the ultimate drift into socialism with Obamacare at the point of a gun.

    We can both agree that something HAD to be done with runaway health care costs. Both political parties wanted to find answers, but it took the relatively new Progressive Party to ramrod its liberal agenda through Congress.

    Here we have a fatally broken system becoming the Law of the Land.

    I predict the broken system will be fixed and compromises will be made to make it muddle through. Our political system has never been perfect, and never will be. We fight, bicker & there is always controversy. But we muddle through. We have ALWAYS muddled through, with things like WWII, Korea, Vietnam, LBJ, Carter, etc, etc. And I predict we will muddle through the Broken Obama Care, with each political party contributing as best it can.

    There is no point in talking about Republicans vs Democrats anymore. They are gone! Forget the old political parties of the Democrats & Republicans. They have morphed into the NEW political parties. The NEW political parties are the extreme left Progressive Democrats of America and the extreme right Tea Party members of the GOP.
    Progressives have already taken over the old Democratic Party in 2004: Progressive Democrats of America & its policies here:
    Progressive Democrats of America
    Tea Party Conservatives are taking over the old Republican Party
    Tea Party - Join the Movement. Support the Tea Party.
    The old fogey republicans will be tossed out & replaced with new younger Tea Party candidates.

    After the recent shutdown debacle & the progressives refusing to negotiate, I predict a LANDSLIDE victories for the Teaparty movement in coming years.Extreme HATRED for Obamacare is already taking root, and will contribute to the Teaparty victories. IMO, Obamacare marks a political turning point in the USA.

    Grizz

  2. #472
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    Saturday Night Live 10/26/13 had a HILARIOUS parody of Kathleen Sabelius explaining Obama Care at the beginning of the show. It was so funny I was literally rolling on the floor laughing!

    I've tried getting the link to post here, but it is already totally censored. I'll keep trying to find a working link. If anyone can find that SNL link please post it for me. It is a GEMSTONE of humor.

    AHA! I found some links that should work ( for now ). Watch quickly before they get deleted.
    http://blogs.wsj.com/speakeasy/2013/...ealthcare-gov/
    http://redalertpolitics.com/2013/10/...e-gov-to-work/
    http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/liv...amacare-651110

    Google "SNL kathleen sebelius" to find more links if these get deleted.
    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 10-27-2013 at 02:03 PM.

  3. #473
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    (Daily Caller) – First Lady Michelle Obama’s Princeton classmate is a top executive at the company that earned the contract to build the failed Obamacare website.

    Toni Townes-Whitley, Princeton class of ’85, is senior vice president at CGI Federal, which earned the no-bid contract to build the $678 million Obamacare enrollment website at Healthcare.gov. CGI Federal is the U.S. arm of a Canadian company.

    Townes-Whitley and her Princeton classmate Michelle Obama are both members of the Association of Black Princeton Alumni.

    Toni Townes ’85 is a onetime policy analyst with the General Accounting Office and previously served in the Peace Corps in Gabon, West Africa. Her decision to return to work, as an African-American woman, after six years of raising kids was applauded by a Princeton alumni publication in 1998

    George Schindler, the president for U.S. and Canada of the Canadian-based CGI Group, CGI Federal’s parent company, became an Obama 2012 campaign donor after his company gained the Obamacare website contract.

    As reported by the Washington Examiner in early October, the Department of Health and Human Services reviewed only CGI’s bid for the Obamacare account. CGI was one of 16 companies qualified under the Bush administration to provide certain tech services to the federal government. A senior vice president for the company testified this week before The House Committee on Energy and Commerce that four companies submitted bids, but did not name those companies or explain why only CGI’s bid was considered.

    On the government end, construction of the disastrous Healthcare.gov website was overseen by the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS), a division of longtime failed website-builder Kathleen Sebelius’ Department of Health and Human Services.

    Michelle Obama's Princeton classmate was Obamacare website builder | The Daily Caller

    Do we smell CRONYISM HERE ????? NO BID CONTRACT ? ? WTF
    Grizz

  4. #474
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    Serious Legal Glitch "Has The Potential To Sink Obamacare"

    a potentially major "legal glitch" could cause the healthcare law to unravel in 36 states. As the LA Times reports, The Affordable Care Act proposes to make health insurance affordable to millions of low-income Americans by offering them tax credits to help cover the cost. To receive the credit, the law twice says they must buy insurance "through an exchange established by the state." But 36 states have decided against opening exchanges .... Critics of the law have seized on the glitch & have filed four lawsuits that urge judges to rule the Obama administration must abide by the strict wording of the law, even if doing so dismantles it in nearly two-thirds of the states. And the Obama administration has no hope of repairing the glitch by legislation as long as the Republicans control the House... Rest of this sensational story here:
    Legal Glitch "Has The Potential To Sink Obamacare" | Zero Hedge

    The Teaparty may WIN THE DAY & FORCE O'Bama to negotiate after all !

    Grizz

  5. #475
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizz View Post

    After the recent shutdown debacle & the progressives refusing to negotiate, I predict a LANDSLIDE victories for the Teaparty movement in coming years.Extreme HATRED for Obamacare is already taking root, and will contribute to the Teaparty victories. IMO, Obamacare marks a political turning point in the USA.

    Grizz
    Maybe were you live that is the vibe. I don't know. Seems quite the opposite around me.... Not that I agree either way, but round here seems like most are blaming the Tea Party for throwing a temper tantrum at the last minute and shutting down the government when they could not get their way legally.

  6. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
    I am a physician, so I figure I have something worse contributing here....

    -- "Personal responsibility" is not a realistic argument in regards to healthcare, for as much as I propagate it in other things. Someone can be responsible all day long, but when they get hit by a bus or have a massive heart attack, the time and costs associated cannot be handled by one person, or family. Everyone is all about being responsible, until their family member gets a 500k medical bill....the "personal responsibility" argument, if applied here, would mean that they are now contractually obligated to pay that money, with interest. If they are deemed unable, as most would be, the "responsible" thing to do would be to liquidate all of their assets, as well as the family's assets. Whatever is left would be garnished from wages, for as long as it takes, by whatever kin they had. If that means your great grandkids are paying for your 1.5 mil end of life care 40 years later, so be it. You should have done the responsible thing and killed yourself as to not burden them.These are the laws we assign to all other commodities and assets/loans. Why should your death be any different? ....the reality is that caring for our sick REQUIRES us working together, allocating costs into pools, insurance, etc. This is not a reason for the ACA to exist, as it is a terrible, usurious law, but it is a reason why most of its opponents are totally idealistic and clueless.

    -- The ACA is not socialistic at all. It is a law that mandates that one purchase something from a PRIVATE company, or face government penalty. That is fascism. Big difference. It was originally a republican idea from the 90's, the individual mandate. The entire law was written by pharma, insurers, and hospital networks. It is a corporatist masterpiece.

    Overall, my main problem with bashing Obamacare is that these same people often have no better ideas. I am opposed to the idea that a country should be basing 1/5 of its economy on making money from sick people. That is an immoral, repugnant idea. For me, any system that does not take this on fundamentally will not work, period.

    One could get millions of horror stories from people that have gone bankrupt, seen family members die due to not affording care, or the other terrible sides to having a "sickness for profit" system in place. That is the problem. The current law or the previous ones are only re-arranging deck chairs. I did not become a physician to make money, but to help people. Make med school free (as it is in many other places, and was here for decades), make it so we aren't paying 300k in loans back, and then set salary rates that are big enough to keep it as incentive.

    With our salaries taken care of, we could then target the true con-men and beneficiaries of Obamacare: insurers (30 million new customers by LAW! HOLY hell, thank you!), private hospital networks, and pharma. They wrote it themselves, for themselves.

    Just saying, "personal responsibility" is a fantasy in healthcare. There are good solutions, but that sure as hell isn't one of them.
    I couldn't agree more! Well said! They should have "like" buttons here.
    As far as Obamacare and Obama, I think he is just a puppet in the hands of bigger players like insurers and pharma.

  7. #477
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Maybe were you live that is the vibe. I don't know. Seems quite the opposite around me.... Not that I agree either way, but round here seems like most are blaming the Tea Party for throwing a temper tantrum at the last minute and shutting down the government when they could not get their way legally.
    NeckHammer,
    You are entitled to you opinion, even if it is dead wrong. Here are the facts:
    Eight House Republicans were appointed to negotiate a budget deal with Senate Democrats today and actually sat at a table to await some senators.
    When no one showed up, the Republicans said it was an example of the Senate Dems’ refusal to negotiate to reach a deal.
    House Majority Leader Eric Cantor, joining seven other conferees appointed earlier this morning by House Speaker John Boehner, said “there is a way” for Republicans and Democrats “to work through our differences” but complained that Democrats have refused to negotiate.
    Do you see the empty seats in the photo in this link?
    House Republicans Wait at a Table for Dems to Negotiate Budget - ABC News

    The fact is that republicans have made every attempt to negotiate but the Progressives refused on every count. The battle over the budget will renew again after the first of the year. Obama DEMANDS unlimited debt. He even says that raising the debt ceiling does not raise debt ! The national debt has gone up more with Obama than any president in HISTORY !
    Obama: 'Raising the Debt Ceiling...Does Not Increase Our Debt,' Though It Has 'Over 100 Times' | CNS News
    Bwahahaha - Mwahahaha DUH !
    Obama was the laughing stock even saying this on the Tonight Show.

    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 10-27-2013 at 03:00 PM.

  8. #478
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zb Acupuncture Studio View Post
    I couldn't agree more! Well said! They should have "like" buttons here.
    As far as Obamacare and Obama, I think he is just a puppet in the hands of bigger players like insurers and pharma.
    ZB,
    I agree with you. However the CRUX of the problem is SKYROCKING health care costs, and Obamacare will just make it WORSE, the more money that is poured into the healthcare BLACK HOLE, the more that will disappear.

    The cause of rocketing healthcare should be addressed. I have proven examples that could be done to drastically reduce health care costs: The Dr. Brownstein Iodine Supplement Protocol prevents surgery & expensive drugs for most of the following disease:
    * Fibrocystic Breast Disease
    * Ovary Cysts
    * Prostate Problems
    * Uterus Problems
    * Thyroid Problems
    * Many related cancers
    YES! Even cancers have been proven to be cured with iodine. See "Cancer" in the links below.
    Examples & documentation of my claims:
    http://tinyurl.com/Iodine-Reading
    http://tinyurl.com/iodine-testimonials

    In addition there are many other disease that can be treated with diet, vitamins & minerals and without expensive surgeries + expensive drugs. Prime example is the treatment for Multiple Sclerosis and all related Autoimmune Disease:
    Minding Your Mitochondria: Dr. Terry Wahls at TEDxIowaCity - YouTube

    Pouring even MORE money into this BLACK HOLE is not the answer.
    Grizz
    Last edited by Grizz; 10-27-2013 at 02:56 PM.

  9. #479
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
    @ Grizz.....I will try this one more time. Again, there are 2 questions, only 2.

    You keep on putting things up about the Constitution, and Obama's supposed distaste for it. So I pose this:
    1) What was the last Presidential administration that followed the Constitution at all, in your view?

    Obamacare's main transgression, the individual mandate, began in the early 90's as a Republican platform idea....this leads to
    2) What policies has Obama STARTED that are of significance, that have no precedence in history?

    Please understand that I spent about 300 hours volunteering to unseat Obama in 2012, and did not vote for him of course in either election.

    My point is that the right has a made-up version of Obama, that he is some kind of radical....he isn't. He is another representation of how we do things, and how we have done them for a very long time. In short, Obama is how we roll. He is how we have rolled since about 1980....he is a corporatist technocrat, in the mold of Reagan and Clinton.

    There is all of this talk about fearing we will get a one-party system. I have news; we are already there....we have ONE party, with two wings. The objective is to create the illusion of actual differences, in order to get people like Grizz and the left-wing crazies to hate each other. I can go on Democratic Underground and see legion of left-oriented Grizz characters. The will post vids and sources from MSNBC and Huffington Post, while Grizz picks Fox or Drudge Report....my reply to both sides is the same. It is all very useful anger for the powerful, as it maintains the illusion that all one side needs to do is eliminate the other....anything to keep the eyes off of the actual people behind the curtain.

    Please answer those 2 questions. I am very curious as to your viewpoint.
    I have to say I agree with this (not where it's pointed at Grizz, but the meat of these points). We have not been a constitutional nation really in 100 years or so. I was raised/taught to be conservative in every facet of life. These days, I'm very much hardcore Libertarian, which sometimes conflicts with being Christian. I believe very much in fiscal conservatism and very much in more socially Libertarian values. I see the monstrosity that combines both of our major political parties into one and it makes me sick. We are no longer a nation of choice. The Republican party completely lost me after passing the Patriot Act and at no point in my life will I ever buy into Liberal philosophy. I view economics through the lens of the Austrian viewpoint because I'm arguably a deep thinking simpleton.

    Obamacare will be a complete quagmire much like Medicaid and Medicare, WIC, Foodstamps and every other government entitlement program. We are well on our way to a single payer system, which IS the entire point of the Affordable Healthcare Act. It's here to stay, period, and 20 years from now it will be viewed just like the rest of our entitlement programs. Medicaid/care were not particularly popular in the beginning either.

    Sitting on my desk is my packet from BCBS about changes to my coverage. I have yet to open it because I've been in a good mood lately and I don't want to ruin it. I have been on the same plan since about 2007 and I pay for 100% of my coverage because I have either been self-employed or worked for small businesses the majority of my working time over the past 6 years. After the ACA passed, BCBS was courteous enough to give us all fair warning and ample time to deal with healthcare cost increases. They raised our rates slowly and steadily. I'm 33 and in excellent health. Despite this, I've watched my premiums go from $70/month to $172/month. That's HUGE. The best I've been able to calculate is that similar coverage (I pay 20%) will be to the tune of $320/month.

    That's a 357% increase in cost. That's NOT affordable. If the penalty is $325 per person, then essentially we are all forced to participate in the system. That is, in fact, fascism. The very premise of the ACA is flawed. The message being taught to future healthcare professionals (and I know this because I'm engaged to a Nurse Practitioner working on a Masters in Public Health) is that requiring insurances = more people insured = more people getting preventative screenings = more people not being as sick.

    What a load of hogwash. I rarely go to the doctor as it is. My premiums are expensive enough so unless I'm REALLY sick, I save the $40 copay + cost of labs + prescription costs and man up. Doubling my rates makes me even less likely to go because it's REALLY not in the budget and it's tough enough to budget for everything since I'm on a variable income. I really think we're going to see a lot of co-ops start up and I for one will be the first to join if the time comes were my future wife's insurance starts to suck or if she changes jobs and moves to a situation where the health coverage sucks.

    Man up, get used to it, because it's hear to stay. Personally, I'm becoming a fan of the idea of hitting a big reset button.

  10. #480
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    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    contradictions/obstacles to free market property

    Curious where you stand on this idea. Other libertarians/an-caps evidently hate me for having it.
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

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