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  1. #421
    TheyCallMeLazarus's Avatar
    TheyCallMeLazarus is offline Senior Member
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    Appreciate your story Wildrose

    A guy that is a lot smarter than me said to me once, "China is our best trading partner in the same way that an abusive boyfriend is the best way to get food on the table. We are their bitch."

    China though relies on the US economy to keep buying its stuff though, so keeping us as their benefactor is to their benefit. The issue is that they are slowly moving away from this, trying to get into raw materials more so than rote manufacturing. Between this and opening up better markets elsewhere, they plan to slowly ween themselves off American consumer money.

    To add to this, the US consumer has become a very troubled group to base your economy on. Demand is overall pretty poor due to stagnant wages, and our constant boom to bust cycles are scary to them.

    The House of Cards won't fall due to China though, IMO. It will fall due to resource collapse, causing banking shocks and freezing of credit....that is what 2008 taught everyone really well; no credit markets = collapse.

    I give it more in the neighborhood of three to five years....and it will be the hardest thing humanity has ever gone through. Then, and only then, will the "sustainability crowd" be proven right in what we've been saying for 40 years.
    "Man is born free.....but everywhere he is in chains."

  2. #422
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    Agree with everything Lazarus just said.

    China is slowly (actually rather quickly) cutting back the % of their portfolio made up of US debt, making currency swap deals with other countries to cut the US out of the loop, increasing their gold reserves (at some point the world needs to get off the dollar). All they need to do is keep doing what they are doing, and let the US keep digging themselves into a hole. Then at the last minute they step in and put a big shovel of dirt in the hole.

  3. #423
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
    Appreciate your story Wildrose

    A guy that is a lot smarter than me said to me once, "China is our best trading partner in the same way that an abusive boyfriend is the best way to get food on the table. We are their bitch."

    China though relies on the US economy to keep buying its stuff though, so keeping us as their benefactor is to their benefit. The issue is that they are slowly moving away from this, trying to get into raw materials more so than rote manufacturing. Between this and opening up better markets elsewhere, they plan to slowly ween themselves off American consumer money.

    To add to this, the US consumer has become a very troubled group to base your economy on. Demand is overall pretty poor due to stagnant wages, and our constant boom to bust cycles are scary to them.

    The House of Cards won't fall due to China though, IMO. It will fall due to resource collapse, causing banking shocks and freezing of credit....that is what 2008 taught everyone really well; no credit markets = collapse.

    I give it more in the neighborhood of three to five years....and it will be the hardest thing humanity has ever gone through. Then, and only then, will the "sustainability crowd" be proven right in what we've been saying for 40 years.
    I think you said in another thread that you had moved some assets over to the Swiss franc - I've been thinking about moving my money, since it's tied up in an age-banded 401k and stocks. I haven't paid enough attention to it but don't want to lose money like I did in 2008. Probably time to move it, yes?

  4. #424
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zanna View Post
    I think you said in another thread that you had moved some assets over to the Swiss franc - I've been thinking about moving my money, since it's tied up in an age-banded 401k and stocks. I haven't paid enough attention to it but don't want to lose money like I did in 2008. Probably time to move it, yes?
    If you don't have your money on you, you don't have your money.
    nihil

  5. #425
    TheyCallMeLazarus's Avatar
    TheyCallMeLazarus is offline Senior Member
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    @ Zanna

    I heard a good joke once.....

    "Want to know a four character word that starts with F and ends with K, that is code for screwing your employees?"
    .....401K

    I have never understood them really. I'd rather have the money myself and invest it myself. Otherwise the money can easily disappear just as surely if things go south; they are low dividend with little protection. Weak sauce.

    The issue with a Swiss account is that most of the smaller banks want a pretty big deposit to start the account, AND they are not all that fond of a US dollar. My system is that I take the income and split it 3 ways, investment-wise.
    1) A small amount that is bet on high-risk stock with big dividends. I watch this one really close.
    2) Convert a larger amount to physical assets, usually silver or gold. I keep this in a Canadian bank, as they don't tax it as much as we do here, ironically.
    3) Using the physical assets, you can get a GREAT return on Swiss Francs. It is the most stable currency in the world, and all of your trade in is legally entitled back to you at any time for market value. This means that I can SELL francs electronically anytime I want, in return for dollars or silver....the warning is that if you go to them with US dollars, you actually get hosed pretty bad. They are awash in them, so most of the reputable banks will immediately insist you buy physical assets. (I.E. They don't take you dollars. They convert your dollars to gold, then take THAT)

    This system enables me to go to a bank here with physical reserves, and to walk out with gold or silver bullion if I want it. If it all hits the fan again like 2008, which it likely will in about 2016, I can immediately pull all of my dollars (about 10% of total assets, enough just to buy basics on) as well as the Francs, and get physical assets that often INCREASE in value as the house falls down. Bad for everyone else, good if you have all physical. I can get to where 95% of my assets are in silver or gold in a matter of a business day, outside of things like my meager house and pile of garbage car (1986 mazda with a stick, 240k, still kicking ass). It is all about protection, like another investment joke (I have plenty):

    "Sound money is like sex with a stranger.....it's fine to take a lot of risks and put it wherever it looks like there might be some action, but always protect the hell out of it and make sure you can always pull out in case it starts getting weird."

    ^This was said to me by a truck driver I met at a stop where I live. Drives a rig and has over 2 million in retirement. Helluva smart guy.

    Sorry for investment strategy on MDA. It's kind of my 3rd fav topic, behind nutrition and politics
    Last edited by TheyCallMeLazarus; 10-17-2013 at 08:00 PM.
    "Man is born free.....but everywhere he is in chains."

  6. #426
    Wildrose's Avatar
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    Thanks for the tips Lazarus. I wish I had enough money to bother, but I only make 50k a year before taxes and I spend most of it. XD Le sigh... I think I'll just put off buying a house until well after the shit has hit the fan. I live with my parents who are retired and own their home so right now my risk is minimal.

  7. #427
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
    The issue with a Swiss account is that most of the smaller banks want a pretty big deposit to start the account, AND they are not all that fond of a US dollar. My system is that I take the income and split it 3 ways, investment-wise.
    1) A small amount that is bet on high-risk stock with big dividends. I watch this one really close.
    2) Convert a larger amount to physical assets, usually silver or gold. I keep this in a Canadian bank, as they don't tax it as much as we do here, ironically.
    3) Using the physical assets, you can get a GREAT return on Swiss Francs. It is the most stable currency in the world, and all of your trade in is legally entitled back to you at any time for market value. This means that I can SELL francs electronically anytime I want, in return for dollars or silver....the warning is that if you go to them with US dollars, you actually get hosed pretty bad. They are awash in them, so most of the reputable banks will immediately insist you buy physical assets. (I.E. They don't take you dollars. They convert your dollars to gold, then take THAT)

    Sorry for investment strategy on MDA. It's kind of my 3rd fav topic, behind nutrition and politics
    Excellent, my favorite topics are nutrition, investments, and modular synths.

    On gold, are you talking about investing in gold electronically, or actually holding real gold?

  8. #428
    Zanna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
    @ Zanna

    I heard a good joke once.....

    "Want to know a four character word that starts with F and ends with K, that is code for screwing your employees?"
    .....401K

    I have never understood them really. I'd rather have the money myself and invest it myself. Otherwise the money can easily disappear just as surely if things go south; they are low dividend with little protection. Weak sauce.

    The issue with a Swiss account is that most of the smaller banks want a pretty big deposit to start the account, AND they are not all that fond of a US dollar. My system is that I take the income and split it 3 ways, investment-wise.
    1) A small amount that is bet on high-risk stock with big dividends. I watch this one really close.
    2) Convert a larger amount to physical assets, usually silver or gold. I keep this in a Canadian bank, as they don't tax it as much as we do here, ironically.
    3) Using the physical assets, you can get a GREAT return on Swiss Francs. It is the most stable currency in the world, and all of your trade in is legally entitled back to you at any time for market value. This means that I can SELL francs electronically anytime I want, in return for dollars or silver....the warning is that if you go to them with US dollars, you actually get hosed pretty bad. They are awash in them, so most of the reputable banks will immediately insist you buy physical assets. (I.E. They don't take you dollars. They convert your dollars to gold, then take THAT)

    This system enables me to go to a bank here with physical reserves, and to walk out with gold or silver bullion if I want it. If it all hits the fan again like 2008, which it likely will in about 2016, I can immediately pull all of my dollars (about 10% of total assets, enough just to buy basics on) as well as the Francs, and get physical assets that often INCREASE in value as the house falls down. Bad for everyone else, good if you have all physical. I can get to where 95% of my assets are in silver or gold in a matter of a business day, outside of things like my meager house and pile of garbage car (1986 mazda with a stick, 240k, still kicking ass). It is all about protection, like another investment joke (I have plenty):

    "Sound money is like sex with a stranger.....it's fine to take a lot of risks and put it wherever it looks like there might be some action, but always protect the hell out of it and make sure you can always pull out in case it starts getting weird."

    ^This was said to me by a truck driver I met at a stop where I live. Drives a rig and has over 2 million in retirement. Helluva smart guy.

    Sorry for investment strategy on MDA. It's kind of my 3rd fav topic, behind nutrition and politics
    Thanks, Lazarus! That is interesting. I basically started putting money into a 401k when I was younger and started working places where it was an option. I was actually proud of myself putting $$ away for retirement, until 2008 hit and I lost 40% of the account. It never really bounced back. I work in health insurance *dodges torches and pitchforks* and so have been through many M&As. After one layoff, I ended up as a systems analyst on a consultant basis, so had to figure out what to do with my former, sadly depleted 401k. A friend of the family is an investment manager and I gave it to him to work with. 4 years later, there has been basically no movement and I'm thinking something new needs to happen. Not sure how to do anything without paying penalties - I don't know if I can buy gold/silver the way you do stocks. Obviously, I'm pretty ignorant on this and should spend more time researching that than posting on MDA

    I've been back at a traditional health insurance company for a year and a half and my 401k here is performing really well, but I know how quickly that can turn. Back in 2008 before it crashed, I was a pretty devoted reader of Steven Pearlstein, an economics columnist for the WaPo. If I had followed his advice back then, I wouldn't have lost any money and like you said, Lazarus, probably would have made money. He was telling people in the weekly chats that he would move his money and buy gold.

  9. #429
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    So what do you plan to do with said gold and silver when the "shit" hits the proverbial fan? Also, if you don't physically possess it, like in your own safe, you don't actually have any guarantee you'll -get- your metal.

    M.

  10. #430
    Zanna's Avatar
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    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    This system enables me to go to a bank here with physical reserves, and to walk out with gold or silver bullion if I want it. If it all hits the fan again like 2008, which it likely will in about 2016, I can immediately pull all of my dollars (about 10% of total assets, enough just to buy basics on) as well as the Francs, and get physical assets that often INCREASE in value as the house falls down. Bad for everyone else, good if you have all physical. I can get to where 95% of my assets are in silver or gold in a matter of a business day
    That's Lazarus talking up there . . . I think the key point there is having access to a bank with physical reserves. If those are all gone, our problems may be bigger than getting out our cache of gold. And having physical assets like that hopefully means it retains value regardless of what country's monetary system you are living with. So if the dollar plummets to the point where stacks of $100 bills are more useful for kindling than commerce, you still have a viable source of money. I'm sure Lazarus can give a much smarter explanation

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