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Thread: Obama Care reports coming in - HORROR STORIES page 21

  1. #201
    john_e_turner_ii's Avatar
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    No financial system or governing method has lasted very long, ours is without exception. There is no "perfect" way. If you give too much wealth to the masses, then they get dependent and wealth is depleted. If you don't give enough, then they revolt, tear down the powers that be, and take the wealth by force. Perhaps a happy medium will take place at some point.

  2. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheyCallMeLazarus View Post
    I am afraid that Derp is actually correct here.....because of one big thing: taxes.

    I can speak for New Hampshire, the "Live Free of Die" state, which has welfare benefits on the lower end of the spectrum, last I checked. One can actually get this info for themselves in their state. It is all online now....

    For myself, a single 28yo male, if I am unemployed I can get about $1650 per month on welfare, if I am able to get the max. This amounts to $412 per week, TAX FREE. If I were to go get a job, I would need about $13 an hour to beat this, once I actually paid my (very low for the poor) taxes, on payroll and MC.

    These all change if one does have a job though....which is where it gets interesting, because I am (financially speaking) better off to STAY unemployed than get a low-paying job. If I were to earn $8 an hour, for a little over $300 per week after taxes, my endowment goes down to only about $1000 from the government....

    In summary:
    No job = $1600 per month, tax free
    Working poor job = $1300 per month, with minor taxes

    With this all said, I pin the blame on the fact that wages are stagnant more so than the policy itself....but yes, the welfare system is a mess. Most that are on it DO have a job, even though they could likely get on the dole and for a short time, get more money until their benefits run out.

    I don't care about right vs left. I care about stupid vs smart policy. That system we use is stupid, period.
    So many words, so much absurdity. This is so twisted, twisted, twisted. Take for example this sentence "For myself, a single 28yo male, if I am unemployed I can get about $1650 per month on welfare, if I am able to get the max." "Unemployment isn't welfare. "If I am able to get the max...." Most certainly the working poor don't get the max, so what is the point of this twisted babbling?

  3. #203
    TheyCallMeLazarus's Avatar
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    I think you have confused me for someone else.....the working poor get hosed in this country to a level that is beyond words to articulate. Part of the reason is that they are faced with 2 very bad choices: 1) Take a poorly paying, often unstable, menial job 2) Get government benefits, which for some will actually be higher than that job, for a period before they run out.

    In either case, the amount of money is not substantial, and those with children are often one paycheck from destitution. The fact that these are in fact their choices is a colossal failure.

    What I meant by "the max" is that there are a number of exemptions and loopholes. If I were to have more than 2 children, be unemployed less than a given amount of time, be of a lesser age, I get more money. It is possible that I would qualify to get more money than most entry-level jobs. That is an atrocity, in both the job and the policy.

    Next time, perhaps have an idea whom you are writing to and their overall views. Use numbers, not vague words. Don't be mean. These are not high expectations.
    "Man is born free.....but everywhere he is in chains."

  4. #204
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    Coercion isn't justifiable in helping the poor based on some sort of social contract. It fails an argument from principles(it's morally wrong) and it fails an argument from pragmatism (it will always corrupt ideas as always seen)
    But the government should enforce property rights? Let's get rid of all forms of welfare and private property. Mad Max, baby!

  5. #205
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    Derpamix brings up a good point, but it's not realistic. Yes, it is morally wrong to forcibly take from one and give to another, regardless of the reason. This is theft. However, without doing that, the large population of the poor will always overpower the few wealthy, and take it by force anyway, usually violently. At least with a governing body to make the decisions in a somewhat democratic manner, this transfer of wealth can be done peacefully. This is usually done in a way that the wealthy maintain their level of lifestyle, while the poor are provided the essentials.

    I am not saying that this is right or appropriate, but this is just how it is.

  6. #206
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    You know I don't have patience for that. I really won't waste my time on the author of this masterpiece for example: "if I am unemployed I can get about $1650 per month on welfare." No, you can't.
    Sorry to inform you, but words have meanings.

  7. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by john_e_turner_ii View Post
    Derpamix brings up a good point, but it's not realistic. Yes, it is morally wrong to forcibly take from one and give to another, regardless of the reason. This is theft. However, without doing that, the large population of the poor will always overpower the few wealthy, and take it by force anyway, usually violently. At least with a governing body to make the decisions in a somewhat democratic manner, this transfer of wealth can be done peacefully. This is usually done in a way that the wealthy maintain their level of lifestyle, while the poor are provided the essentials.

    I am not saying that this is right or appropriate, but this is just how it is.
    I disagree, the government does far more harm to the poor than good, and is likely the sole reason for poverty and wealth disparity as a whole. Licensing laws, zoning regulations, minimum wage laws, and many other restrictions actually raise the cost of being in poverty and make it nearly impossible for the poor to enter the labor market and start their own business and compete. The Fed destroys the value of the dollar, harming those with the least amount while subsidizing private banks and large corporations. Governments use eminent domain laws to force people out of their homes in favor of rich land developers and politically connected industries(Monsanto). History reveals governments tend to centralize wealth, protect the interests of the rich, and pay into large propaganda campaigns exclaiming that they're looking out for the poor. This whole healthcare act is one giant corporatist pyramid scheme and scam. I hate food stamps in large amounts due to this, but it's more taking from the poor and giving to the poor and is still nothing compared to what corporations receive. Abolish government and hierarchy, and all problems go away. It really is that simple. If it involves the "poor" running over the government with force -- then, it's "virtuous" violence for the greater good.

    PS they look out for their own. this is why congress is exempt from obamacare, no matter what lamestream media tries to claim is false news.
    Last edited by Derpamix; 10-08-2013 at 04:20 PM. Reason: damn typos
    nihil

  8. #208
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    Quote Originally Posted by anna5 View Post
    You know I don't have patience for that. I really won't waste my time on the author of this masterpiece for example: "if I am unemployed I can get about $1650 per month on welfare." No, you can't.
    Sorry to inform you, but words have meanings.
    Why is this Marxist Jew still here?
    nihil

  9. #209
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    I disagree, the government does far more harm to the poor than good, and is likely the sole reason for poverty and wealth disparity as a whole. Licensing laws, zoning regulations, minimum wage laws, and many other restrictions actually raise the cost of being in poverty and make it nearly impossible for the poor to enter the labor market and start their own business and compete. The Fed destroys the value of the dollar, harming those with the least amount while subsidizing private banks and large corporations. Governments use eminent domain laws to force people out of their homes in favor of rich land developers and politically connected industries(Monsanto). History reveals governments tend to centralize wealth, protect the interests of the rich, and pay into large propaganda campaigns exclaiming that they're looking out for the poor. This whole healthcare act is one giant corporatist pyramid scheme and scam. I hate food stamps in large amounts due to this, but it's more taking from the poor and giving to the poor and is still nothing compared to what corporations receive. Abolish government and hierarchy, and all problems go away. It really is that simple. If it involves the "poor" running over the government with force -- then, it's "virtuous" violence for the greater good.

    PS they look out for their own. this is why congress is exempt from obamacare, no matter what lamestream media tries to claim is false news.
    I am not saying that the government has all the answers, nor am I advocating for any particular style of government or increased government involvement. But, the reality is, eventually the masses rise up when their basic needs or perceived needs and freedoms are not met. This happens whether there is a huge government presence or not. The Russian and French revolutions are examples of that, not to mention the recent Arab spring. Ignoring a large segment of the population almost always results in breakdown of a society.

  10. #210
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