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Thread: Movin' to the weights room- please adapt my program! page 8

  1. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Hehe, and I suppose that “moderately strong” in SS terms means benching X 1.5, squatting X 2 and deadlifting X 2.5 of bodyweight, just to pass the SS novice level? That’s the Starting Strength "mouse-trap", to keep people in the SS fold until “they are strong enough”! And neophyte lifters are trapped by the "magic" of lifting numbers, that are relative irrelvant unless you are a powerlifter, learning all the "smart" tricks to get the bar up just for the sake of lifting more weight! Definetely not my cup of tea that cheap Starting Strength brew...
    No, I tossed out those estimates earlier as a ballpark figure for the sake of argument.

    Rippetoe is abundantly clear that the Starting Strength novice program ends when you can no longer progress on a workout-to-workout basis (IOW when you're no longer a novice).

    Although most people if they are male, not elderly, and not morbidly obese seem to be able to get at least that much progress out of linear progression.

  2. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    No, I tossed out those estimates earlier as a ballpark figure for the sake of argument.

    Rippetoe is abundantly clear that the Starting Strength novice program ends when you can no longer progress on a workout-to-workout basis (IOW when you're no longer a novice).

    Although most people if they are male, not elderly, and not morbidly obese seem to be able to get at least that much progress out of linear progression.
    Alright, because very few newbie lifters would have the genetic's to do the numbers you tossed out within the period of 3-9 months that is estimated to be the period of SS linear progression! I checked the weightlifting performance standards of Lon Kilgore the companion of Rippetoe and those seem to be much more realistic;

    Weightlifting Performance Standards

  3. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Alright, because very few newbie lifters would have the genetic's to do the numbers you tossed out within the period of 3-9 months that is estimated to be the period of SS linear progression! I checked the weightlifting performance standards of Lon Kilgore the companion of Rippetoe and those seem to be much more realistic;

    Weightlifting Performance Standards
    Looks like I'm an advanced upper body lifter and an intermediate lower body lifter. Damn. Kinda wish that was the opposite, but thats what spending your formative years ignoring your leg work does to you I guess.

    I don't clean or snatch though, so I guess I can't count those.

  4. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Looks like I'm an advanced upper body lifter and an intermediate lower body lifter. Damn. Kinda wish that was the opposite, but thats what spending your formative years ignoring your leg work does to you I guess.
    Yeah, me too, but I know from experience that I need around 3 whole weeks to re-activate my neurolgical brain patterns for squats to get it up enough to become "advanced" also in that lift...

  5. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Alright, because very few newbie lifters would have the genetic's to do the numbers you tossed out within the period of 3-9 months that is estimated to be the period of SS linear progression! I checked the weightlifting performance standards of Lon Kilgore the companion of Rippetoe and those seem to be much more realistic;

    Weightlifting Performance Standards
    Yeah, much has been written about the regrettability of using the terms "novice, intermediate, advanced, etc" in the performance chart when they have nothing to do with one's training age. I think for reasonably sized, young, male novice lifters, most people can reach the numbers I referenced.

  6. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Yeah, much has been written about the regrettability of using the terms "novice, intermediate, advanced, etc" in the performance chart when they have nothing to do with one's training age. I think for reasonably sized, young, male novice lifters, most people can reach the numbers I referenced.
    Can reach it yes, but within the starting Strength protocol that last from 3-9 months and without any former lifting experience? So a 200 pound skinnyfat newbie at 190 cm should expect to squat 400 pound below paralell within 9 months? That's an advanced level according to Kilgore, while SS only aim taking you to the intermediate level...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gorbag View Post
    Can reach it yes, but within the starting Strength protocol that last from 3-9 months and without any former lifting experience? So a 200 pound skinnyfat newbie at 190 cm should expect to squat 400 pound below paralell within 9 months? That's an advanced level according to Kilgore, while SS only aim taking you to the intermediate level...
    Again, "Intermediate" on the performance standards chart has 0 to do with one's level of training advancement. And yes to your first question. If he follows the program. Happens all the time. You should hang out in the Starting Strength forums.

  8. #78
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    Alright, so you are saying that "most young male novice lifters” can reach X 1.5, X 2, and X 2.5 of bodyweight for bench-press, squats, and dead-lifts within 3-9 months on doing starting Strength. If you had said "some gifted young male novice lifters” I wouldn’t have disagreed but MOST, if they are just following the SS program (!?) That’s a pretty ambitious goal for the random average newbie lifter without taking any other factors into consideration that they are “reasonable sized young male novice lifters”, but I suppose that all the “failures” will not show up with the same frequency on the SS forums as the success stories?

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    You see this is the very contention I have regarding such systems......400 lb squat by beginners ! That's a heck of a lot of wear/tear and spinal stress. Unless you are going to compete in strength competitions why would you want to subject your body to such poundage's ?

    If I was unable to bring my legs up to a nice respectable size and shape without using such poundage's on my spine then I'd surely be doing something wrong.

  10. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldSchhool View Post
    You see this is the very contention I have regarding such systems......400 lb squat by beginners ! That's a heck of a lot of wear/tear and spinal stress. Unless you are going to compete in strength competitions why would you want to subject your body to such poundage's ?

    If I was unable to bring my legs up to a nice respectable size and shape without using such poundage's on my spine then I'd surely be doing something wrong.
    Yep, the spine, joints, tendons and other connective tissue must take a hell of a beating within months for the belief or superstition that there is an exact correlation between lifting numbers and “strength” and that there are some magic strength qualities to cash in by pushing up the big lifts that can’t be attained with more sensible methods…

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