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    steven.kelly's Avatar
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    How long does it take to lose fat adaption on a conventional diet?

    Primal Fuel
    Just curious.

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    Fat adaption is a myth.

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    Hello, what do you mean by "fat adaption" (or adaptation i guess?). Please explain.

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    EDIT: French Fry: it's all the Primal Blueprint book. Non-primals are sugar adapted. They mostly burn sugar (from carbs) for energy and don't make enough of the right hormones to burn the fat they eat or the extra fat that they carry around. We humans didn't evolve to burn sugar, so we aren't efficient at it, which is why non-primals have extra weight and have sugar crashes and have to eat every 3 hours. Fat adaptation is when your body ramps up the fat-burner hormones and learns how to burn fat for energy. That's when people begin to burn the fat they have, and lose weight.

    ---------

    To the OP, a while ago, I asked how long it would take to return to sugar-burning and got no good answers. Mark doesn't seem to have covered this topic yet. All I have is some N-1:

    Occasional totally high-carb sugar day: if I get back on track in a day, it doesn't affect me at all.

    Depression-induced bad week of high sugar and dairy: I gain 2 pounds. When I recover, I lose the two pounds the next week. Seems to correspond with monthly cycle.

    Half-a$$ primal: For the past couple months I lived in a hotel suite. I avoided wheat but loaded up on fruit, candy, chocolate, and microwave popcorn every other day. Probably 175-200 g/day carb. I gained 6 pounds but don't feel any different. I just got back on track this week at ~75 g carbs and have no sign of carb flu yet. The carbs made me gain weight, but I guess the fat burner hormones are still at good levels.

    Full-on return to SAD with Twinkies and cookies and stuffing and high fucktose corn syrup: I admit I haven't done full SAD because wheat gives me acid reflux. So I don't know how long it would take to lose all the primal ground. My guess is 6-8 weeks at least. Even then, I suspect it wouldn't take as long to go back to fat adaptation the second time around. The first time we all went primal, we'd been SAD for years.
    Last edited by oxide; 10-01-2013 at 06:16 AM.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

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    steven.kelly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchFry View Post
    Hello, what do you mean by "fat adaption" (or adaptation i guess?). Please explain.
    From what I have read, when on primal you burn fat as your main source of energy/fuel? But on a sad diet you burn glucose/sugar as the main source? Correct me if I'm wrong

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    Zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oxide View Post
    EDIT: French Fry: it's all the Primal Blueprint book. Non-primals are sugar adapted. They mostly burn sugar (from carbs) for energy and don't make enough of the right hormones to burn the fat they eat or the extra fat that they carry around. We humans didn't evolve to burn sugar, so we aren't efficient at it, which is why non-primals have extra weight and have sugar crashes and have to eat every 3 hours. Fat adaptation is when your body ramps up the fat-burner hormones and learns how to burn fat for energy. That's when people begin to burn the fat they have, and lose weight.

    ---------

    To the OP, a while ago, I asked how long it would take to return to sugar-burning and got no good answers. Mark doesn't seem to have covered this topic yet. All I have is some N-1:

    Occasional totally high-carb sugar day: if I get back on track in a day, it doesn't affect me at all.

    Depression-induced bad week of high sugar and dairy: I gain 2 pounds. When I recover, I lose the two pounds the next week. Seems to correspond with monthly cycle.

    Half-a$$ primal: For the past couple months I lived in a hotel suite. I avoided wheat but loaded up on fruit, candy, chocolate, and microwave popcorn every other day. Probably 175-200 g/day carb. I gained 6 pounds but don't feel any different. I just got back on track this week at ~75 g carbs and have no sign of carb flu yet. The carbs made me gain weight, but I guess the fat burner hormones are still at good levels.

    Full-on return to SAD with Twinkies and cookies and stuffing and high fucktose corn syrup: I admit I haven't done full SAD because wheat gives me acid reflux. So I don't know how long it would take to lose all the primal ground. My guess is 6-8 weeks at least. Even then, I suspect it wouldn't take as long to go back to fat adaptation the second time around. The first time we all went primal, we'd been SAD for years.
    So much sceudo science it hurts the eyes!

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    oxide's Avatar
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    Just for information, Zach and I have been battlling in the carb wars for some time now. I generally paraphrase what is written in Mark's book, along with some N=1 of my own. Zach is a sugar-lover and carb addict who hangs out on a low-carb primal forum for reasons I don't understand. Which approach is right for you? Well it's up to you to decide.
    5'0" female, 43 years old. Started Primal October 31, 2011, at a skinny fat 111.5 lbs. Low weight: 99.5 lb on a fast. Current weight: skinny-fat 106.5 lbs because of sugar cheating.

    MY PRIMAL: I (try to) follow by-the-book primal as advocated by Mark Sisson, except for whey powder and a bit of cream. I aim for 80-90 g carb/day and advocate a two-month strict adjustment for newbies. But everybody is different and other need to tweak Primal to their own needs.

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    FrenchFry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steven.kelly View Post
    From what I have read, when on primal you burn fat as your main source of energy/fuel? But on a sad diet you burn glucose/sugar as the main source? Correct me if I'm wrong
    Mmmm, maybe so but from all I have read lately, it seems a little bit more nuanced. Maybe I am misunderstanding but here is my take:
    - every time you eat some form of _digestible_ carbs, you temporarily shut down free fatty acid "generation" from your fat stores, so your body deals with the digested glucose right away. This glucose is used mostly for cell energy or glycogen repletion. When insulin has done its good job (provided that you are not insulin resistant), your blood glucose level is back to fasting level quick enough hopefully, and then your body will re-allow the fat stores to liberate some fats in order to provide energy for the fat eating organs or even muscles when doing slow low intensity stuff (like walking, or moving an arm simply - glycogen being reserved for the quick and intense activity).

    What this tells me is that you are ALWAYS fat adapted, as long as you are not in "storage mode" (while digesting a meal). Where primal is better than CW is that CW seems to dysregulate this normal metabolic processes. And dealing with very digestible carbs all the time without leaving the body a chance to get back to fasting levels of insulin will prevent you from using your fat stores (not until you sleep, since while you sleep you are fasting).

    So if you are fat, having meals well apart in time is a good idea. Eating easily digestible carbs can be temporarily decreased for allowing fat to be used. But when you are at ideal weight, there is no point in reducing carbs if you keep fat not too high.

    I am myself at ideal weight, and I eat mostly one meal a day, sometimes 2, no caring about the macros - I do care about the micros though. I also fast 48 hours like once or twice a month for resetting the system. I became very insulin sensitive, and I NEVER snack because I feel well fed.

    If I had fat to lose, I would decrease easily digestible carbs for a while and have the same meal timing. But I don't think VLC is necessary if not for fat loss on a short to medium term.

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