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Thread: The metabolic advantage hypothesis page 5

  1. #41
    Neckhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Leida View Post
    After reading these fora for years, I have decided to eat salmon and nuts like I am Primal; liver like I am a zero-carber; fruit like I am a Peatarian; resistant starches aka beans like I am a Ferrissian, and fermented dairy just because.
    That may be an absolutely brilliant approach .

  2. #42
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    Certain Northern California tribes not only consumed salmon as a major portion of their diets but also candlefish oil which was also traded with inland people and highly sought after. Some So Cal native people got the majority of their calories from shellfish and acorns and were some of the most healthy native people ever seen as well as highly advanced in culture and standard of living. Until the Catholics enslaved them.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Heaviest squat: 180 x 2. Heaviest Deadlift: 230 x 2

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Literally millions of scientists? lol.

    Neck, hasnt Cod liver oil only been used for several hundred years? Also which awesome tribe is eating mongogo nuts all day and in peak health?

    Funny seeing Jerad Diamonds name being dropped all over the place in the last week. Is he the new low carb, Peat?
    Lol.... no I just couldn't find the original article with the breakdown of portions in said tribe. OK... just for you I broke out my 16th degree google fu black belt to find the original paper that I made those assertions from. I'm serious, this took some work, which is why I just grabbed the first thing I found (which was Jerad Diamonds) in the first place:

    http://www.faculty.fairfield.edu/dcr...lee_chap_4.pdf

    Table 4-4 shows that out of 2355 calories they consume 1365 from the monongo nuts.

    As to the CLO.... I do get FCLO, and have very specific reasons for giving it to my son which are based on our testings and deficiencies in his diet. He is an individual and we supplement only on an individual basis. My other son does not need or take it.

    Sorry couldn't find a citation as to who first originated or how long FCLO has been known to be used. Here is an article that has some sound bites from Chris Kressler and Chris Masterjohn on it though: http://balancedbites.com/2013/02/faq...-fish-oil.html

    I made the assumption that "fermented fish" was enough to assume that a substance LIKE FCLO has been around for quite a time longer than just the past few hundred years. I might be wrong. Not positive on this one, but I do know that the Inuit ferment their fish....which is likely to give us at least a couple thousand years of use right? I would have to do more digging for anything more specific in that regard.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 10-02-2013 at 08:08 AM.

  4. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    Certain Northern California tribes not only consumed salmon as a major portion of their diets but also candlefish oil which was also traded with inland people and highly sought after. Some So Cal native people got the majority of their calories from shellfish and acorns and were some of the most healthy native people ever seen as well as highly advanced in culture and standard of living. Until the Catholics enslaved them.
    You know what i find strange about using certain tribes and cultures as proof that the paleo diet is correct? The fact that the vast majority of paleo gurus and followers are of white european decent. Do you really think Indian, Inuit and other indigenous tribes really relates to the populous of today ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    You know what i find strange about using certain tribes and cultures as proof that the paleo diet is correct? The fact that the vast majority of paleo gurus and followers are of white european decent. Do you really think Indian, Inuit and other indigenous tribes really relates to the populous of today ?
    Yup. For one, the majority of genetic variability exists across racial lineages. For two, we've been meat eaters since developing huge brains, back in Africa, before we populated the rest of the continents. That's how we grew these huge brains. I'm not saying that some genetic variation hasn't happened over the past few thousand or few tens of thousands of years, but I'm saying a lot of our dietary needs are rooted in changes that took place hundreds of thousands of years ago and more.

  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichMahogany View Post
    Yup. For one, the majority of genetic variability exists across racial lineages. For two, we've been meat eaters since developing huge brains, back in Africa, before we populated the rest of the continents. That's how we grew these huge brains. I'm not saying that some genetic variation hasn't happened over the past few thousand or few tens of thousands of years, but I'm saying a lot of our dietary needs are rooted in changes that took place hundreds of thousands of years ago and more.
    Yet all the information used is from hunter gatherer tribes of only the past few thousand years and up until today. Maybe they evolved to eat their diets because of necessity, not because its rooted in our DNA. I understand that we are omnivores and would never disagree with animal products being a major factor in our evolution. Just that hypothesizing a perfect diet out of information mostly from non paleo cultures doesnt seem exactly logical. Saying we arent suited for high carb or low fat because of what some fringe group of peoples eats doesnt makes sense.

    Also, thanks Neck. Ill check that PDF out when i get to a comp. Also i dont think FCLO is as bad as some other stuff like fish oil. The vitamin content can be therapeutic.

  7. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Also i dont think FCLO is as bad as some other stuff like fish oil. The vitamin content can be therapeutic.
    It can be useful for people with severe deficiencies in fat soluble vitamins since it is such a concentrated source of Vitamins A&D. However, what happens once you are replete? When does the law of diminishing returns kick in? And furthermore, if you're that Vitamin A&D deficient, why not just eat liver and get some sun, or take a lanolin-based D supplement without the toxic effects?

    There are much better options. It's just easier to take a pill, and people with the "take a pill" mentality will never truly succeed.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Yet all the information used is from hunter gatherer tribes of only the past few thousand years and up until today. Maybe they evolved to eat their diets because of necessity, not because its rooted in our DNA. I understand that we are omnivores and would never disagree with animal products being a major factor in our evolution. Just that hypothesizing a perfect diet out of information mostly from non paleo cultures doesnt seem exactly logical. Saying we arent suited for high carb or low fat because of what some fringe group of peoples eats doesnt makes sense.

    Also, thanks Neck. Ill check that PDF out when i get to a comp. Also i dont think FCLO is as bad as some other stuff like fish oil. The vitamin content can be therapeutic.
    No problem. As for FCLO I don't make the assertion that "everyone" needs it, which is how far many (including Chris Kressler) take their recommendations. Being a supplement I take the same stance I take on any of those things, it needs to be evaluated on a person by person basis and substantiated with either testing or known deficiencies.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    That is it. If anything, ketosis slows the metabolism. Hunger suppression is a natural side effect because if you are starving, your body tries to conserve energy, and from a natural standpoint, the only time the body would be in ketosis is when the food supply was bordering on starvation-levels. Forced ketosis is some new, weird, modern thing, which flies in the face of "paleo." Isn't it ironic?

    On the opposite end of the spectrum, diets high in protein and carbohydrate stimulate the metabolism. However, they also tend to stimulate hunger to go along with the rise in metabolism.

    In short, diets high in carbohydrate and low in fat tend to promote a more rapid metabolic rate than diets high in fat and very low in carbohydrate, but you'll probably be hungrier on the former diet than the latter - it is a consequence of the faster metabolism.
    But doesn't being hungry present a dieter with a disadvantage? And doesn't lack of hunger present a dieter with an advantage?

    Hunger is a metabolic process and fighting it with willpower is not a viable strategy for many people. Fighting it with an automatic physiological response seems like a winning strategy to me.

    This has been my experience. A low carb diet gave me the hunger suppression that allowed me to reduce calories. It was a huge relief and almost magical in how relatively easy it was to eat so little.

    Then I began strength training and HIIT and switched over to a higher carb, higher protein, low fat primal diet. I eat manly portions and I get very hungry, but I do not get fat because of the kind of training I do.

    If I had tried to eat this way at the start of my journey, I don't think I could have obtained compliance with the change of foods for one thing, nor could I have lost weight as I was not interested in weight training and a fat girl sprinting is likely to get a lot of unwanted comments from strangers. It all has to be done in context of the individual and where they are in the process.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Heaviest squat: 180 x 2. Heaviest Deadlift: 230 x 2

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    It all has to be done in context of the individual and where they are in the process.
    No, it all has to be done in the context of Choco and where he is on HIS journey.
    "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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