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  1. #381
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    Calorie Cage Match! Sugar (Sucrose) Vs. Protein And Honey (There Is No Such Thing As A “Calorie”, Part VI) - GNOLLS.ORG

    Hey, Choco and Derp (or anyone else who cares), J. Stanton just wrote another piece to his 'No such thing as a calorie' series. This one is heavy into sugar calories. Could you guys take a look and see how it fits into your feelings on sugar and calories?

  2. #382
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    Quote Originally Posted by Terry H View Post
    " I'm not selling anything. Believe what you want"

    SO what? Let us weigh the case being made instead of the insinuation that selling something is inherently evil.

    BTW a cracking good article relevent to this thread:

    | Cogito Ergo Edo
    Ah, now I see why Pklopp stopped posting in this thread. He went and wrote a blog post about it. Nice .

  3. #383
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    I am personally alluding to hepatic insulin resistance, which is induced by the excess accumulation of FFAs. Within the hepatocyte, metabolites of the FFA re-esterification accumulate. These excess FFAs cause relocation of several protein kinase isoforms, from the cytosol to the membrane compartment. The membrane isoforms phosphorylate the intracellular portion of the insulin receptor which results in impairment of insulin receptor interaction with downstream insulin signaling proteins. These are all cut of the same thing, usually anyway. Obesity is just hypoxia of the cell leading to the activation of cellular stress response pathways causing autonomous inflammation and the release of pro-inflammatory cytokines, much the same as the interference from FFAs.

    I still feel the way it was stated as "fat causes insulin resistance" is very misleading. Basically you have expounded on a mechanism of cell signaling. That does not prove in any sense that the ingestion of any type of fat is the culprit in the development of insulin resistance. I think we have all read studies that have induced IR through a variety of macro and lifestyle changes.... including non-dietary contributors like sleep deprivation, sepsis, and statin drugs just to name a few.

  4. #384
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post

    [B][I]I find Mark Sisson wrote a post yesterday slamming carbohydrate very depressing....
    I was actually quite proud of Mark on this. He didn't exactly draw a line in the sand and state that potato's are evil, but he did let his stance be known. It's good that he put himself out there on such a controversial issue. People have been speculating on if he had changed his mind on certain things of late.... well now you don't have to. He obviously sticks by his carb curve idea for the average person and doesn't think domestic tubers are an essential contributor to health. I tend to agree.

    You know of all the people I have had the chance to observe implementing a paleo/primal diet in real life within the context of a 150g carbs/day or less protocol every one of them have reported great improvement to their health. No negative side effects. The only place I find any contention about this, ironically, is on this board. I'm just glad to have such real life experience with people, otherwise I might get the erroneous idea that this diet doesn't work as written for the vast majority.....

  5. #385
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    What of the people that I know who have cured their metabolic syndrome on a diet that cuts out ONLY flour and sugar. I know two people who are members of a larger group who have that as the diet prescription. Soybean and other industrial oils are still okay. Wheat and other grains are still okay, so long as they are whole or at most, rolled, never ground into flour. French fries and potato chips would be okay, but not ice cream or pasta or corn chips. Fruit is fine but sugar in its many forms is not.

    One has seen his symptoms of metabolic syndrome vanish while the other has lost 130lbs. Both have seen a dramatic mood change and one has gone off anti-depressants. Their stories are the same as others in their group. They are not low carb, not low PUFA and not paleo but somehow they are healing their diabetes, insulin resistance, high blood pressure, neuropathy, obesity, depression and other problems with this simple change.
    The thing is though, once you cut out wheat and sugar, you are inadvertently cutting out a whole swathe of chemicals that almost certainly aren't good for you. So was eating the flour and the sugar the problem? Or was it undustrialised food?

    We currently use sugar in our kombucha, and i'm sure that some of it's still there when we drink it (since it's not sour like vinegar). And we've been experimenting with sourdough pizza as well.

    *maybe* most of the problem was the chemical cocktails of processed food? Maybe it was the hyperpalatibility? Maybe it was the O6 oils in the food?

    Maybe it's not sugar and wheat.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

  6. #386
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Could you guys take a look and see how it fits into your feelings on sugar and calories?
    I had forgotten it for a while, but I just remembered that rodents have markedly higher rates of de novo lipogenesis than human beings, so I'm not surprised a diet of 40% sugar would be more fattening than a diet of over 50% protein in mice.
    Last edited by Timthetaco; 10-24-2013 at 05:53 PM.

  7. #387
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Ah, now I see why Pklopp stopped posting in this thread. He went and wrote a blog post about it. Nice .
    Yes. It would seem that his blog post would have exceeded the forum post length....
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

    Griff's cholesterol primer
    5,000 Cal Fat <> 5,000 Cal Carbs
    Winterbike: What I eat every day is what other people eat to treat themselves.
    TQP: I find for me that nutrition is much more important than what I do in the gym.
    bloodorchid is always right

  8. #388
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    I was actually quite proud of Mark on this. He didn't exactly draw a line in the sand and state that potato's are evil, but he did let his stance be known. It's good that he put himself out there on such a controversial issue. People have been speculating on if he had changed his mind on certain things of late.... well now you don't have to. He obviously sticks by his carb curve idea for the average person and doesn't think domestic tubers are an essential contributor to health. I tend to agree.

    You know of all the people I have had the chance to observe implementing a paleo/primal diet in real life within the context of a 150g carbs/day or less protocol every one of them have reported great improvement to their health. No negative side effects. The only place I find any contention about this, ironically, is on this board. I'm just glad to have such real life experience with people, otherwise I might get the erroneous idea that this diet doesn't work as written for the vast majority.....
    Yes, experience is a great teacher. As you probably noticed there is a part 2 coming up to Pklopp's latest (http://cogitoergoedo.com/2013/09/12/...alorie-part-i/ which I am definitely looking forward to. Thanks for your contributions here.
    Last edited by Terry H; 10-24-2013 at 06:41 PM.

  9. #389
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    The thing is though, once you cut out wheat and sugar, you are inadvertently cutting out a whole swathe of chemicals that almost certainly aren't good for you. So was eating the flour and the sugar the problem? Or was it undustrialised food?

    We currently use sugar in our kombucha, and i'm sure that some of it's still there when we drink it (since it's not sour like vinegar). And we've been experimenting with sourdough pizza as well.

    *maybe* most of the problem was the chemical cocktails of processed food? Maybe it was the hyperpalatibility? Maybe it was the O6 oils in the food?

    Maybe it's not sugar and wheat.
    But he still eats O6 oils and wheat and other grains. Just not flour (ground grain of any kind) and sugar. He still is a compulsive overeater (I've witnessed some binges) and is still somewhat fat. He was a gourmet before and still is now, so it's not like he made a dramatic drop in junk food. He mainly ate a lot of pasta before he adopted the diet change. His metabolic syndrome is gone and so is his now-thin wife's. They are members of a group called Food Addicts in Recovery Anonymous.
    Last edited by sbhikes; 10-24-2013 at 07:04 PM.
    Female, 5'3", 49, Starting weight: 163lbs. Current weight: 135 (more or less).
    Starting squat: 45lbs. Current squat: 180 x 2. Current Deadlift: 230 x 2

  10. #390
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    Quote Originally Posted by otzi View Post
    Calorie Cage Match! Sugar (Sucrose) Vs. Protein And Honey (There Is No Such Thing As A “Calorie”, Part VI) - GNOLLS.ORG

    Hey, Choco and Derp (or anyone else who cares), J. Stanton just wrote another piece to his 'No such thing as a calorie' series. This one is heavy into sugar calories. Could you guys take a look and see how it fits into your feelings on sugar and calories?
    I'm not too fond of J. Stanton, or his his articles. I just saw this, and Timthetaco said it all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    I still feel the way it was stated as "fat causes insulin resistance" is very misleading. Basically you have expounded on a mechanism of cell signaling. That does not prove in any sense that the ingestion of any type of fat is the culprit in the development of insulin resistance. I think we have all read studies that have induced IR through a variety of macro and lifestyle changes.... including non-dietary contributors like sleep deprivation, sepsis, and statin drugs just to name a few.
    I am not talking so much about the ingestion of them at this point. Though they have to be ingested to get to that point, but lots of fat to release said toxins makes you more prone.
    Longing is the agony of the nearness of the distant

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