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  1. #341
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timthetaco View Post
    Maybe I'm confusing what you mean. I'm thinking of pathological hepatic and peripheral insulin resistance due to lipotoxicity, not simply "insulin resistance" due to a lack of carbohydrates. The utilization of FFA's in the two contexts is completely different and a low carb diet won't necessarily lead to pathological insulin resistance. To my knowledge.
    Frankly I just don't think some people like to make the distinction between normal bodily processes as a form of proper adaptation and that of pathological response. I dunno if its intentional to make their point seem more convincing or if it really is that difficult to see the difference.

  2. #342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Frankly I just don't think some people like to make the distinction between normal bodily processes as a form of proper adaptation and that of pathological response. I dunno if its intentional to make their point seem more convincing or if it really is that difficult to see the difference.
    Seriously?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    A great way to become insulin resistant is to not eat carbohydrate. A great way to become insulin sensitive is to eat a lower fat/higher carbohydrate diet. There is a reason why people that eat prolonged low carbohydrate diets eat a sweet potato, crash, then conclude they "can't eat carbs" - they're extremely insulin resistant. This, of course, can be mitigated fairly quickly by just eating carbohydrate regularly for a few days or weeks until their insulin sensitivity rebounds - this is not necessarily metabolic syndrome we are talking about, here.
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  3. #343
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timthetaco View Post
    Maybe I'm confusing what you mean. I'm thinking of pathological hepatic and peripheral insulin resistance due to lipotoxicity, not simply "insulin resistance" due to a lack of carbohydrates. The utilization of FFA's in the two contexts is completely different and a low carb diet won't necessarily lead to pathological insulin resistance. To my knowledge.
    Who said anything about pathological?
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  4. #344
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    QF....WTF...
    In metabolic syndrome, a person burns free fatty acids even in the presence of glucose because they can't get glucose into their mitochondria to oxidize it as fuel. The severely insulin resistant are the ultimate "fat burning beasts." They never stop, even when you give them sugar.
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  5. #345
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    In metabolic syndrome, a person burns free fatty acids even in the presence of glucose because they can't get glucose into their mitochondria to oxidize it as fuel. The severely insulin resistant are the ultimate "fat burning beasts." They never stop, even when you give them sugar.
    That however does not equate in any way shape or form to diabetes being "caused" by fat as you stated. You are simply stating the physiological symptoms of the disease once its already in progress. NIDDM is/can be cause by several things either alone or in conjunction.

  6. #346
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Seriously?
    And if what you quoted yourself as saying was the crux of your entire post you could have been correct.... but you kept typing.

    Here is how your rationale usually reads to me:

    Low carb causes physiological insulin resistance that acts in way that is kinda like metabolic syndrome IR. So if you are a low carber and eating carbs makes you more insulin sensitive then people with metabolic syndrome should do the same thing.... eat more carbs to become more insulin sensitive.


    Thats how it comes off anyhow, and there are all sorts of logical problems with that line of reasoning.
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 10-23-2013 at 10:47 AM.

  7. #347
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Who said anything about pathological?
    The statement of yours I quoted came from your reply to Dilberry, who was talking about diabetes. I don't see the purpose of talking about adaptive low carb insulin resistance in the context of diabetes, which involves unrelated pathological insulin resistance. It makes it sound like you think the mechanisms underlying the two are the same. If you do, provide proof. Otherwise, stop confusing people.

  8. #348
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    That however does not equate in any way shape or form to diabetes being "caused" by fat as you stated. You are simply stating the physiological symptoms of the disease once its already in progress. NIDDM is/can be cause by several things either alone or in conjunction.
    That's not what I said at all. I said low carbohydrate dieting increases the rate of FFA's being oxidized for fuel and decreases the rate at which glucose is oxidized for fuel, and insulin resistance is a natural side effect of that process. That is how FFA's are oxidized more rapidly in a glucose-deficient state - by the body becoming less sensitive to insulin (since you can't drop insulin any lower beyond a certain point or you'll die).

    A completely separate point was the cause of diabetes and metabolic syndrome. That is largely caused by polyunsaturated fat intake.

    Why are you trying to turn two completely separate statements into one argument?
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  9. #349
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    That's not what I said at all. I said low carbohydrate dieting increases the rate of FFA's being oxidized for fuel and decreases the rate at which glucose is oxidized for fuel, and insulin resistance is a natural side effect of that process. That is how FFA's are oxidized more rapidly in a glucose-deficient state - by the body becoming less sensitive to insulin (since you can't drop insulin any lower beyond a certain point or you'll die).
    So I did misunderstand.

  10. #350
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timthetaco View Post
    So I did misunderstand.
    Yes. But I also think maintaining insulin sensitivity is important, so I am very against low carbohydrate dieting in the overwhelming majority of cases. The effects are physiological rather than pathological, but that doesn't mean they are healthy. Low carbohydrate dieting still creates insulin resistance and high fasting blood glucose, and while that may not be harmful here and there, holding those conditions for years - like so many others - creates a chronic condition. I don't believe that state to be optimal in very many cases.
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