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Thread: The metabolic advantage hypothesis page 24

  1. #231
    Buster11's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    I honestly stopped counting daily calories a long time ago, except for experimenting. I find that I can literally eat endless amounts of fruit and sugar when my fat is kept low and not gain an ounce of weight. I am insulin sensitive, and have a well functioning thyroid, so I eat as much as I possibly can(when I remember) to keep those functioning top tier.

    Currently drinking a 64oz cup of cane sugar cola. SHIEEET INCOMING 'BEETUS.
    When you say low fat, how low do you mean?

  2. #232
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    Quote Originally Posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    Did I mention anything about carbs in my quote? Protien has a significant insulin effect. It's old news


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    My point is that if you think insulin production wears out the pancreas and leads to diabetes, then you must believe regular meat consumption to be unhealthy, correct? The only thing safe to consume regularly, then, is fat, and carbohydrate and protein would fall to the wayside.

    I don't think diabetes has anything to do with your pancreas wearing out or too much insulin production. I think diabetes has to do with too much free fatty acids in the bloodstream constantly, which over time causes insulin resistance and eventually your cells can no longer uptake sugar, so it sits in your blood. I think polyunsaturated fat is the cause, since your body cannot metabolize it efficiently, like it can with SFA and MUFA. FFA's that cannot be burned efficiently that your body also doesn't want to store (hence your body only manufactures SFA and MUFA, not PUFA) would have them floating around in your bloodstream too much, causing insulin resistance.

    When you ingest sugar, it is preferentially burned. Imagine consuming sugar, but the FFA's still sit in your blood and you cannot clear them. So now you have lots of FFA AND SUGAR in your bloodstream. Your body can't clear the FFA because it is toxic FFA, and it inhibits the glucose oxidation, so sugar sits in your blood beyond 3 hours and becomes toxic. THAT is what I believe the mechanism behind Type 2 Diabetes is - toxic fats in your blood stopping your body's ability to clear glucose.

    A good prescription for stopping that would be a very low PUFA diet and cyclical carbohydrate dieting to restore insulin sensitivity. My opinion.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 10-14-2013 at 01:39 PM.
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  3. #233
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    If fear of insulin level after a meal is the issue wouldn’t more fat delay absorption of protein and carbs and reduce the spike of insulin?

  4. #234
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    Its safe to say that we ate a lot of seafood in our ancestral past. The different is that it can from warm water oceans where fish are leaner and more saturated. As for crustations and mollusks, well they dont have much fat to begin with.

    Eating fatty fish like salmon every day can certainly be unhealthy because its not what we were designed to eat. Its hibernation food.
    Where is the real world evidence of this last claim? The Japanese eat large amounts of fatty fish - tuna, bonito, mackerel, ... No evidence of harm AFAIK

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  5. #235
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    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchFry View Post
    I cannot say anything about Neckhammer's original question (see way back, 1st post) but if I have to say something, I would argue that you have a metabolic advantage if you prefer a nutrient rich diet rather than a nutrient poor diet at isocaloric content.
    And if so, all the arguing in this thread is utterly pointless. Because as far as I can see, all of the different antagonists are in favour of their own flavour of nutrient dense diet.
    Disclaimer: I eat 'meat and vegetables' ala Primal, although I don't agree with the carb curve. I like Perfect Health Diet and WAPF Lactofermentation a lot.

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  6. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by magicmerl View Post
    And if so, all the arguing in this thread is utterly pointless.
    Glad you understood my point

  7. #237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Omni View Post
    I do agree though, likely the only metabolic advantage is through nutrient rich vs nutrient poor diet.
    Well I would certainly find that discussion a lot more interesting than more rehashing of the carbs vs fat crap.

    I am finding I can eat an astonishing amount of food these days, despite a very modest activity level. At my age and size, I would never have thought I could keep a normal weight on 2000 cal/day. If its not the food, I must have a tapeworm.
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  8. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster11 View Post
    When you say low fat, how low do you mean?
    5-10% of my daily calories.
    Quote Originally Posted by dilberryhoundog View Post
    I'll touch on my theory. It's one of 2

    1. The constant production of insulin in the pancreatic beta cells wears them out (chronically stressed). In that article it sais that release of glucagon in the alpha cells "primes" the beta cells for a faster and larger insulin release when needed. Long term obese don't do much glucagon so the beta cells lose their "prime" over time (ie take longer and longer to respond to spiked BG).

    2 the mechanism that detects BG gets slowly worn out and it takes longer and longer for the correct "we need insulin" signals to get to the beta cells.

    It's one of those 2 IMO



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    It happens at a much deeper level than that. Within the hepatocyte, metabolites of FFA re-esterification, including long-chain acyl-CoAs and diacylglycerol start to accumulate. Excessive FFAs also participate in the relocation of several protein kinase isoforms; such as PKC-b2, and PKC-theta. diacylglycerols is a potent activator of these isoforms and the membrane associated PKCs will phosphorylate the intracellular portion of the insulin receptor which results in impairment of insulin receptor interaction with downstream signaling proteins

    There is no mechanism for the impairment of insulin simply by stimulating its secretion, this is adhering to the idea that cells simply shut down in a surplus.
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  9. #239
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    It happens at a much deeper level than that. Within the hepatocyte, metabolites of FFA re-esterification, including long-chain acyl-CoAs and diacylglycerol start to accumulate.
    Quoted for truth. Lipotoxicity is more important in the development of insulin resistance than glucotoxicity or - the more popular low carb theory - using your pancreas at all.

  10. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Timthetaco View Post
    the more popular low carb theory - using your pancreas at all.
    lol this always makes me laugh.
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