Page 2 of 40 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 400

Thread: The metabolic advantage hypothesis page 2

  1. #11
    Markbt's Avatar
    Markbt is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Location
    Denver
    Posts
    655
    Primal Fuel
    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    My n=1: eat like warrior; look like warrior. Eat like rabbit; look like rabbit. :::grunt::: I will now go discover fire.
    Yes. My food eats plants so I don't have to.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Marks Daily Apple Forum mobile app

  2. #12
    sakura_girl's Avatar
    sakura_girl is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    US
    Posts
    3,654
    Quote Originally Posted by Markbt View Post
    Yes. My food eats plants so I don't have to.
    Ahaha! I like that one. I will use it, if you don't mind.

  3. #13
    dilberryhoundog's Avatar
    dilberryhoundog is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    550
    The biggest metabolic advantage I can think of is;
    Carbs elicit an anabolic response from the body, Fats elicit a catabolic response. Proteins elicit a neutral response.

    For a while after eating carbs it is difficult for the body to remove energy from storage cells. To liberate fat and glucose the body needs glucagon. Carbs turn off glucagon. Someone that predominately ate carbs all day, then switched to low carb, will probably see a large metabolic advantage effect.

    It is not the calories, all calories are basically equal, it is the body's different response to different macros.


    Sent from my iPhone
    A little primal gem - My Success Story
    Weight lost in 4 months - 29kg (64 lbs)

  4. #14
    Zach's Avatar
    Zach is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,869
    Jeeze neck, you should know by now that low carb = hypo and high carb = rockin libido. I call that a metobolic advantage.

  5. #15
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
    ChocoTaco369 is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Narberth, PA
    Posts
    5,627
    Quote Originally Posted by aragundicm View Post
    See the problem there? Only thing that makes sense is the ketone angle.
    Ketosis is a state the body has adapted to survive periods of extreme starvation. That is it. It is a method of supplementing glucose to the brain so the body doesn't consume lean mass (organs, muscles, connective tissue) as rapidly because gluconeogenesis is extremely catabolic and stressful. Since gluconeogenesis uses cortisol to break down the body into glucose, ketones help alleviate that severe stress.

    That is it. If anything, ketosis slows the metabolism. Hunger suppression is a natural side effect because if you are starving, your body tries to conserve energy, and from a natural standpoint, the only time the body would be in ketosis is when the food supply was bordering on starvation-levels. Forced ketosis is some new, weird, modern thing, which flies in the face of "paleo." Isn't it ironic?

    On the opposite end of the spectrum, diets high in protein and carbohydrate stimulate the metabolism. However, they also tend to stimulate hunger to go along with the rise in metabolism.

    In short, diets high in carbohydrate and low in fat tend to promote a more rapid metabolic rate than diets high in fat and very low in carbohydrate, but you'll probably be hungrier on the former diet than the latter - it is a consequence of the faster metabolism.

    But it isn't all that extreme of a difference. CICO is still gospel - you can't lose weight without an energy deficit, so you should be trying to eat the most nutritious diet possible that allows you to maintain the greatest deficit. Chasing after some "metabolic advantage" is fruitless because the thermic effect of food, while existing, is only in the 5-10% range and that really isn't going to make that big of a difference. The only time the story changes is if you're going to eat straight protein with no fat and carbs, but has anyone tried to do that for more than 2 or 3 days straight? It is almost impossible mentally. The reason why the "low carbohydrate metabolic advantage" nonsense was so incredibly stupid is it stated that calories don't count if insulin is low. Absolutely ridiculous since the body doesn't need insulin to store dietary fat as fat.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 09-30-2013 at 07:08 AM.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  6. #16
    FrenchFry's Avatar
    FrenchFry is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    world
    Posts
    1,309
    Quote Originally Posted by JoanieL View Post
    My n=1: eat like warrior; look like warrior. Eat like rabbit; look like rabbit. :::grunt::: I will now go discover fire.
    I humbly think something is missing here: "eat like warrior" AND "behave /move like a warrior" will probably lead to "look like warrior". I have the feeling that missing the condition I added will make you "look like fat rabbit" ...

  7. #17
    Zach's Avatar
    Zach is offline Banned
    Join Date
    Nov 2012
    Location
    Minnesota
    Posts
    2,869
    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Ketosis is a state the body has adapted to survive periods of extreme starvation. That is it. It is a method of supplementing glucose to the brain so the body doesn't consume lean mass (organs, muscles, connective tissue) as rapidly because gluconeogenesis is extremely catabolic and stressful. Since gluconeogenesis uses cortisol to break down the body into glucose, ketones help alleviate that severe stress.

    That is it. If anything, ketosis slows the metabolism. Hunger suppression is a natural side effect because if you are starving, your body tries to conserve energy, and from a natural standpoint, the only time the body would be in ketosis is when the food supply was bordering on starvation-levels. Forced ketosis is some new, weird, modern thing, which flies in the face of "paleo." Isn't it ironic?

    On the opposite end of the spectrum, diets high in protein and carbohydrate stimulate the metabolism. However, they also tend to stimulate hunger to go along with the rise in metabolism.

    In short, diets high in carbohydrate and low in fat tend to promote a more rapid metabolic rate than diets high in fat and very low in carbohydrate, but you'll probably be hungrier on the former diet than the latter - it is a consequence of the faster metabolism.

    But it isn't all that extreme of a difference. CICO is still gospel - you can't lose weight without an energy deficit, so you should be trying to eat the most nutritious diet possible that allows you to maintain the greatest deficit. Chasing after some "metabolic advantage" is fruitless because the thermic effect of food, while existing, is only in the 5-10% range and that really isn't going to make that big of a difference. The only time the story changes is if you're going to eat straight protein with no fat and carbs, but has anyone tried to do that for more than 2 or 3 days straight? It is almost impossible mentally. The reason why the "low carbohydrate metabolic advantage" nonsense was so incredibly stupid is it stated that calories don't count if insulin is low. Absolutely ridiculous since the body doesn't need insulin to store dietary fat as fat.
    I once did he velocity diet (only protein shakes) for 11 days. Horrible.

    I agree with above. One thing though that people dont seem to realize when talking about CICO and macro ratios is that certain diets elicit a much different metabolic response BECAUSE of the macro ratios and calories.

    Example, VLC diets usually suppress hunger like you said, they also lower metabolism and thyroid production to save energy since GNG is so demanding. So while you might eat much lower calories, you will also burn much less, couple that with malnutrition from such low calorie intake and suboptimal digestion, eventually CICO will catch up to your low calorie input and you will just be set up in a new lower functioning metabolism, unable to lose weight.

    Second example. VHC, high protein, may lead to a much higher calorie consumption due to increased energy production and a highly sped up thyroid and digestive system but at the same time you are using the energy efficiently, getting ample nutrition and setting your system up for a high gear metabolism.

    The two may let you lose the same amount of fat initially but long run, it seems clear to me is health promoting and which is metabolic death to be blunt. Of course variables, variables, variables, but the first example is very common in less knowledgeable, inexperienced and sometimes veteran low carbers (Moore).

  8. #18
    FrenchFry's Avatar
    FrenchFry is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    world
    Posts
    1,309
    To my mind, the best is to eat with the natural amount of fats found in real foods and if you get ample amounts of proteins via meat and dairy, the fat should be there (unless you go for low fat stuff, which is not very natural in this case). That should cover most of your fat needs and it makes things tasty. More than that ? Maybe if you need a keto diet for some reasons other than weight loss (you can grow fat on a keto diet).

  9. #19
    ChocoTaco369's Avatar
    ChocoTaco369 is online now Senior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Narberth, PA
    Posts
    5,627
    Quote Originally Posted by Zach View Post
    I once did he velocity diet (only protein shakes) for 11 days. Horrible.

    I agree with above. One thing though that people dont seem to realize when talking about CICO and macro ratios is that certain diets elicit a much different metabolic response BECAUSE of the macro ratios and calories.

    Example, VLC diets usually suppress hunger like you said, they also lower metabolism and thyroid production to save energy since GNG is so demanding. So while you might eat much lower calories, you will also burn much less, couple that with malnutrition from such low calorie intake and suboptimal digestion, eventually CICO will catch up to your low calorie input and you will just be set up in a new lower functioning metabolism, unable to lose weight.

    Second example. VHC, high protein, may lead to a much higher calorie consumption due to increased energy production and a highly sped up thyroid and digestive system but at the same time you are using the energy efficiently, getting ample nutrition and setting your system up for a high gear metabolism.

    The two may let you lose the same amount of fat initially but long run, it seems clear to me is health promoting and which is metabolic death to be blunt. Of course variables, variables, variables, but the first example is very common in less knowledgeable, inexperienced and sometimes veteran low carbers (Moore).
    On thing I think people need to accept is that "abs lean" is not the norm. It just isn't going to be able to be maintained by 90+% of us. Even contest dieters who cut to absolutely obscene levels of body fat that allow you to see every striation of the human body do so over 12 weeks. They're not "ripped" the other 40 weeks out of the year. They tend to carry the "12% body fat pooch" - you can make out your abs when you flex and have fat around the belly button unflexed. You'll have a little jiggle when you run. That's normal and that's healthy.

    If you look how body builders cut, though, the first thing to go is fat. They generally eat on the order of ~40-50% protein, around 20% fat with the other 30-40% carbohydrate, bulked before and after their workouts. Calories are often averaging a 20-25% deficit. You can mentally get by eating that way when you know you only have to do it for 2-3 months and it's over for the rest of the year, but to do that all the time to maintain a very lean physique is just ridiculous. I learned a long time ago that I will bounce between 11-15% off and on. That's just how it goes for me. Could I cut lower? Yea, but the diet monotony isn't worth the mental stress to see minor physical changes. It isn't worth taking chocolate, ice cream, alcohol and great cuts of steak completely out of my diet.
    Don't put your trust in anyone on this forum, including me. You are the key to your own success.

  10. #20
    JoanieL's Avatar
    JoanieL is offline Senior Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    It's not the heat, it's the stupidity.
    Posts
    7,250
    Quote Originally Posted by FrenchFry View Post
    I humbly think something is missing here: "eat like warrior" AND "behave /move like a warrior" will probably lead to "look like warrior". I have the feeling that missing the condition I added will make you "look like fat rabbit" ...
    Absolutely! I was going for brevity.
    "Right is right, even if no one is doing it; wrong is wrong, even if everyone is doing it." - St. Augustine

    B*tch-lite

    We're men, Gus; the world is our toilet.

Page 2 of 40 FirstFirst 123412 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •