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Thread: The metabolic advantage hypothesis page 11

  1. #101
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    The truth is most people are weight-stable most of the time. Even obese folks and famine victims stay within a narrow range for years at a time despite spontaneous/variable food. (When I used to plot 7-day kcal against weight change the relationship was very weak).

    So there's a lot of homeostasis at work and any influence that overpowers it probably needs to be a substantial toxin or deficiency. Assuming the body will always reconcile energy balance with adipose influx/efflux is a mistake.
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  2. #102
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    SB was pointing out that low carb has appetite suppression as a quality and that may help people to lose weight. Choco claimed your metabolic rate may drop even lower than your appetite. Really there is no actual data to prove Choco's stance as most ad libitum studies on consumption favor a low carbohydrate diet for weight loss. So I think SB was looking for some evidence to the contrary, if choco wished to maintain a stance that so clearly went against several human trials.
    There is no data to support the Paleo Tale, yet this site full of people believe that ancient man never ate grains and legumes, so therefore they shouldn't, either.

    What we know for a fact is that carbohydrate supports a faster metabolic rate than fat. What we also know for a fact is that higher protein consumption provides a better lean:fat mass ratio than a lower protein consumption.

    Low carbohydrate dieting may add to weight loss by suppressing the appetite, however, I don't think this is due to carbohydrate suppression but rather the increase in protein, the decrease in empty calories (refined grains and refined added sugars) and increase in nutrition (from the increase in meat, eggs and cheese consumed) that tends to come along with it.

    I can easily explain the appetite suppression due to the protein intake, increased fat soluble vitamin consumption and decreased anti-nutrient content that are completely by accident.

    And since we here at MDA tend to avoid grains, refined sugars, seed oils and artificial ingredients in foods, a diet equal in vitamins, minerals and protein that skews from dietary fat to dietary carbohydrate is likely more advantageous because it generates more body heat.

    The problem I see is that people around here tend to "add carbs" to their diet - not displace fat for carbohydrate. Or when they up their carbs, they drop their protein because they're adding fruit and starch at the expense of meat. You're doing it wrong, bro! Confounding factors abound!
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  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by WeldingHank View Post
    I dunno, I still feel like I eat the same volume of food even now 225lbs lighter.
    I'm sure it feels that way. Try consuming 3000 calories of meat vs 3000 calories of chocolate cake. I bet the meat will make you feel much fuller. I bet 1,500 calories of meat will make you feel like you eat just as much.

    People tend to eat towards their homeostasis. Your homeostasis now is vastly superior to what it was before thanks to your much healthier diet. You're getting all the same or more nutrition for a fraction of the calories. After all, hunger is not just a cry for energy but a cry for nutrition, so in theory the more nutrients per calories you consume, the less calories your body will cry out for. If the energy you take in does not provide enough nutrition, then you have to overeat energy to get the nutrition you need. BAM, obesity.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 10-05-2013 at 11:04 AM.
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  4. #104
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    They're often associated with Vitamin A deficiency (retinol). Vitamin E "deficiency" is on a case-by-case basis because the amount of Vitamin E you need is correlated with the amount of PUFA you consume. The higher your SFA:PUFA ratio, the less Vitamin E you need since your body draws Vitamin E out of storage to keep PUFA from polymerizing upon ingestion.

    I strongly doubt any association at all with a "deficiency" in EFA's - mainly because there is no information showing they are necessary at all. Cod liver oil is extremely high in Vitamin A from retinol, so omega 3/6 is likely just a confounding factor there. If you were to give your son retinol from healthier sources like egg yolks or pastured dairy, it would probably be much safer. It's likely the "megadose" of vitamin A that did the trick, but there is definitely a law of diminishing returns.
    Hm, well I don't know what the reason for mine was, but quite interestingly, I have drastically reduced my consumption of nuts in the last few months, and they are starting to disappear. Although at the same time, I have also reduced the amount of avenues in my life leading to stress, so I don't know if that is also a consideration? Overall inflammatory reaction?

    Whichever the case, I don't think it's a Vitamin A issue since I eat plenty of liver and carrots.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by sakura_girl View Post
    Hm, well I don't know what the reason for mine was, but quite interestingly, I have drastically reduced my consumption of nuts in the last few months, and they are starting to disappear. Although at the same time, I have also reduced the amount of avenues in my life leading to stress, so I don't know if that is also a consideration? Overall inflammatory reaction?

    Whichever the case, I don't think it's a Vitamin A issue since I eat plenty of liver and carrots.
    Less PUFA can compensate for a Vitamin E deficiency. Nuts are also at the top of the allergen/irritant list, so displacing them for meat and fruit can be potentially anti-inflammatory. There are a lot of explanations, but nuts are probably the least healthy Paleo-approved food, so if you do without them, I say go for it.
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  6. #106
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    snip...
    What we know for a fact is that carbohydrate supports a faster metabolic rate than fat. What we also know for a fact is that higher protein consumption provides a better lean:fat mass ratio than a lower protein consumption.
    So this is a very interesting stance that keeps coming up which I would love to explore a bit. Carbohydrate supports a "faster" metabolism. How is "faster" determined? Do we have isocaloric studies with BMR's measured to assess "faster". So in general what is the quality measure (what are you measuring) to determine speed and by what quantity is it changed significantly in an isocaloric same lifestyle state by high vs lower carbohydrate intake with same amount protein?

  7. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    So this is a very interesting stance that keeps coming up which I would love to explore a bit. Carbohydrate supports a "faster" metabolism. How is "faster" determined? Do we have isocaloric studies with BMR's measured to assess "faster". So in general what is the quality measure (what are you measuring) to determine speed and by what quantity is it changed significantly in an isocaloric same lifestyle state by high vs lower carbohydrate intake with same amount protein?
    Simply due to thermic effect of food. More body heat generated.
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  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Less PUFA can compensate for a Vitamin E deficiency. Nuts are also at the top of the allergen/irritant list, so displacing them for meat and fruit can be potentially anti-inflammatory. There are a lot of explanations, but nuts are probably the least healthy Paleo-approved food, so if you do without them, I say go for it.
    I agree with you on the nut nutrients/Paleo friendliness. But I just love me a good ole handful of cashews sometimes (or five, lol)

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChocoTaco369 View Post
    Simply due to thermic effect of food. More body heat generated.
    And better hormone support.

  10. #110
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    So we should all just eat a 100% protein diet in order to maximize metabolic burn and the thermic effect. Then everyone would be lean and no weight issues, this debate wouldn't be happening, and everyone would be happy.

    [/thread]

    "The cling and a clang is the metal in my head when I walk. I hear a sort of, this tinging noise - cling clang. The cling clang. So many things happen while walking. The metal in my head clangs and clings as I walk - freaks my balance out. So the natural thought is just clogged up. Totally clogged up. So we need to unplug these dams, and make the the natural flow... It sort of freaks me out. We need to unplug the dams. You cannot stop the natural flow of thought with a cling and a clang..."

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