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Thread: The metabolic advantage hypothesis page 10

  1. #91
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  2. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by sbhikes View Post
    Provide some evidence that the metabolism slows greater than one's hunger on any kind of diet.
    Well there actually isn't any, which is part of the reason I started this thread in the first place. There are a couple people who think the "thermogenic effect of food" is somehow an an answer. Its not. It's theoretical closed system thinking. It doesn't pan out in human trials, so its therefore incomplete at best. Biochem is fun, but you can not automatically extrapolate known pathways to how the organism as a whole will react. That is why we do human trials. We do them in recognition that there are as of yet too many unknown variables when it comes to the biochemical and physiological interactions. Big differences are seen between: theory, in vitro, in vivo, animal trials, and human trials.

  3. #93
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    nah. when you're fatter your metabolism is actually higher anyway, because all those fat stores require a huge amount of energy. when you drop the weight, your metabolism slows down naturally and you eat less.
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  4. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Well there actually isn't any, which is part of the reason I started this thread in the first place. There are a couple people who think the "thermogenic effect of food" is somehow an an answer. Its not. It's theoretical closed system thinking. It doesn't pan out in human trials, so its therefore incomplete at best. Biochem is fun, but you can not automatically extrapolate known pathways to how the organism as a whole will react. That is why we do human trials. We do them in recognition that there are as of yet too many unknown variables when it comes to the biochemical and physiological interactions. Big differences are seen between: theory, in vitro, in vivo, animal trials, and human trials.
    the human body is adaptive, to lifestyle, to diet, to everything -- were it not, we'd have died out as a species long ago. to say that your body won't accommodate to certain changes(ie consuming more carbs, more protein, more calories) won't adjust your physiological state is false.
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  5. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    the human body is adaptive, to lifestyle, to diet, to everything -- were it not, we'd have died out as a species long ago. to say that your body won't accommodate to certain changes(ie consuming more carbs, more protein, more calories) won't adjust your physiological state is false.
    I don't think what I said is disagreeing with this.

    SB was pointing out that low carb has appetite suppression as a quality and that may help people to lose weight. Choco claimed your metabolic rate may drop even lower than your appetite. Really there is no actual data to prove Choco's stance as most ad libitum studies on consumption favor a low carbohydrate diet for weight loss. So I think SB was looking for some evidence to the contrary, if choco wished to maintain a stance that so clearly went against several human trials.

    Oh, and if anyone is interested Pklopp did a nice post on very low calorie and starvation and all. He also did 5 weeks of very low calorie/ very low carb with a strength protocol to get "abs lean".....seriously.... "abs lean" isn't easy. As a man doing his level of activity I'd hate to live on 1500 calories a day for five weeks: http://cogitoergoedo.com/2013/06/06/enough-calories/
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 10-05-2013 at 09:27 AM.

  6. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    I don't think what I said is disagreeing with this.

    SB was pointing out that low carb has appetite suppression as a quality and that may help people to lose weight. Choco claimed your metabolic rate may drop even lower than your appetite. Really there is no actual data to prove Choco's stance as most ad libitum studies on consumption favor a low carbohydrate diet for weight loss. So I think SB was looking for some evidence to the contrary, if choco wished to maintain a stance that so clearly went against several human trials.

    Oh, and if anyone is interested Pklopp did a nice post on very low calorie and starvation and all. He also did 5 weeks of very low calorie/ very low carb with a strength protocol to get "abs lean".....seriously.... "abs lean" isn't easy. As a man doing his level of activity I'd hate to live on 1500 calories a day for five weeks: | Cogito Ergo Edo
    yeah well I don't agree with that. I was always losing weight on VLC. Optimal is neither here nor there at this point.
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  7. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    yeah well I don't agree with that. I was always losing weight on VLC. Optimal is neither here nor there at this point.
    Yeah, personally I had to add carbs (and subsequently calories) to stop weight loss after a few month. I was getting too thin/small according to some family members.

  8. #98
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    "I think the basic anti-aging diet is also the best diet for prevention and treatment of diabetes, scleroderma, and the various "connective tissue diseases." This would emphasize high protein, low unsaturated fats, low iron, and high antioxidant consumption, with a moderate or low starch consumption.

    In practice, this means that a major part of the diet should be milk, cheese, eggs, shellfish, fruits and coconut oil, with vitamin E and salt as the safest supplements."

    - Ray Peat

  9. #99
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    the body protectively slows the metabolism during those times to prolong survival since the body consumes itself during such times. Your appetite suppression is your metabolism slowing down, if not, you'd starve to death, since your body is expecting x amounts of calories and x amounts of carbohydrates to fuel itself. It's effective short term, if you're actually starving, but it's not exactly a desirable long term weight loss plan since as soon as you start eating more food, you will likely balloon up since that's exactly what your body wants. 2 months on low carb, I couldn't eat more than 1.5k calories a day(I'm 6'3), dropped to 130lbs, but was sick as a dog -- and as soon as I started eating actual palatable food, I overate as a natural mechanism(I felt like I was starving) and immediately gained nearly 40lbs in a short time.
    Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    see dude? you eat 2k calories and are pretty active and weigh more than me. i eat 3.5k+ to maintain at 150lbs while being sedentary on most days. wouldn't this be a difference in metabolisms, ie; yours has slowed down to accommodate your way of eating? the exact point that i believe choco was inferring. thermic effect of food plays an important physiological role of daily energy expenditure, and thus the amount of calories you need to ingest and the nutrients you need to ingest become greater with higher body temperature.
    Yes.

    I eat more now than I was when I started Primal, I can lift approximately 50% more, yet I weigh 10 lbs less. My body better handles the calories I consume, and my hands and feet are typically always warm whereas before they were not. I still carry more body fat than I'd like - but I imagine it'll take many years of slow adipose tissue turnover to optimize my hormone patterns to the way I eat now.

    I definitely BURN a lot more calories now, though. I'm always shaking my legs and bouncing them up and down when I'm sitting at work and I can't sit still for more than 30-40 minutes before I have to get up and walk around. I wasn't ever like this before. Yes, I eat more food but I also move around a lot more and lift more weight, so it is a balance. When I cut calories and carbohydrate, I get colder, I don't bounce around as much, I don't talk as much and I can't bring myself to move around. It really makes a huge difference.

    The body scales your activity to your diet is what I've found. However, it's still CICO. The CO is just as variable as the CI.

    At labor day, I was down to 140.5 lbs. Fairly effortlessly. I have been slowly gaining some weight since and I am up to 144 lbs. The plan is until March to get myself to about 160 lbs while greatly increasing my lifting in an attempt to pile on some muscle. It'll be interesting to see how much more I'm going to have to eat and how quickly the weight will come on. The goal is steak, eggs, cold potatoes, fruit and soluble fiber-based vegetables (cucumbers, tomatoes, carrots, peppers) while sedentary and steak, hot potatoes, plantains and nixtamalized corn (tortillas, polenta) and homemade ice cream while active. Last year I gained weight by adding nuts and cheese to everything since it was easy and delicious, and it came on very fast but it was about 40% fat/60% muscle. I'd like to see if I could do better by adding sugar and starch instead of fat.
    Last edited by ChocoTaco369; 10-05-2013 at 10:53 AM.
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  10. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    when you drop the weight, your metabolism slows down naturally and you eat less.
    I dunno, I still feel like I eat the same volume of food even now 225lbs lighter.

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