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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Derpamix View Post
    Inhabit the land you're on.

    Per Bylund outlined a concept that sort of dealt with the logistics of "use rights" which is sort of like property by string of easements; that is, you only "own" natural resources within the context of your use for them. It's not territorial control, it's the right to continue your usage unobstructed. This allows for a good deal of overlap in the utilization of resources, but is really quite consistent with anarchist ideals; the idea that one could have the right to the harvest of the apple orchard they planted but not to restrict others from taking a walk through it, so long as they didn't interfere with the orchard usage.

    As for the home, it's obviously yours. This should prevent more state like monopolies of claiming tons of land by takeover.
    Yeahhhh, I'm not that AnCom. I can't stand the idea of random people walking through my property unannounced and eating my fruit trees that I planted. I believe there can be property rights if you can utilize the property and/or maintain it. I think contracts are an important part of civilization so long as they are entered into amicably.
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  2. #12
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    I think eating the apples would be obstructing, wouldn't it? Specifically if you plan to sell or use it for food. There are basic principles at play. It was more a metaphor that one cannot continuously plant seeds in plots of land to claim it for its use. I wouldn't see why someone wouldn't be allowed farm land and a home.
    nihil

  3. #13
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    I honestly have no idea how property rights could be enforced in a stateless society without the entire population being in agreement. At the same time, they can't say that someone doesn't have the rights to what they claim because who are you appealing to? Communities could reach unanimous decisions about where boundaries are drawn, who has claim to this and that. Small and local would be the key. Trespassers or aggressive people would be dealt with accordingly depending on how aggressive they are. Obviously there has to be widespread unlearning; the state and religious institutions have indoctrinated the masses so much so that people have this really skewed perception of civility. A police state is not civil and chaos in anarchy is not civil. It's somewhere in between and people need to learn the NAP before being able to have a functioning voluntary society. Is that likely? No. But I'm still hopeful that it will become a popular way of life on this poor planet afflicted with the human virus.
    Last edited by j3nn; 09-16-2013 at 03:04 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.Perfidy View Post
    My grandparents couldn't move to certain neighborhoods, attend certain schools, own different forms of property, or enter into different professions because of arbitrary racial, economic, and religious oppression. Now here I am in the lowest rungs of the economy, having been railroaded down this path by coercion from a century ago. At the same time, there are people my age who INHERITED THE BENEFITS OF THIS COERCION! They have trust funds, family networks of professionals and shit, just because they are from families that were allowed to have those opportunities in 1930. Fuck them.
    LJB's Howard University Commencement speech:

    But freedom is not enough. You do not wipe away the scars of centuries by saying: Now you are free to go where you want, and do as you desire, and choose the leaders you please.

    You do not take a person who, for years, has been hobbled by chains and liberate him, bring him up to the starting line of a race and then say, "you are free to compete with all the others," and still justly believe that you have been completely fair.

    Thus it is not enough just to open the gates of opportunity. All our citizens must have the ability to walk through those gates.

    This is the next and the more profound stage of the battle for civil rights. We seek not just freedom but opportunity. We seek not just legal equity but human ability, not just equality as a right and a theory but equality as a fact and equality as a result.

    For the task is to give 20 million Negroes the same chance as every other American to learn and grow, to work and share in society, to develop their abilities--physical, mental and spiritual, and to pursue their individual happiness.

    To this end equal opportunity is essential, but not enough, not enough. Men and women of all races are born with the same range of abilities. But ability is not just the product of birth. Ability is stretched or stunted by the family that you live with, and the neighborhood you live in--by the school you go to and the poverty or the richness of your surroundings. It is the product of a hundred unseen forces playing upon the little infant, the child, and finally the man.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    The government owns the most land in the country and that is what is up for grabs.
    And most of it's not worth very much. What creates land value is partially site value and a big dollop of government spending on roads, bridges, water, sewage, police, fire and schools.

  6. #16
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    Nah
    "Ah, those endless forests, and their horror-haunted gloom! For what eternities have I wandered through them, a timid, hunted creature, starting at the least sound, frightened of my own shadow, keyed-up, ever alert and vigilant, ready on the instant to dash away in mad flight for my life. For I was the prey of all manner of fierce life that dwelt in the forest, and it was in ecstasies of fear that I fled before the hunting monsters."

    Jack london, "Before Adam"

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rojo View Post
    And most of it's not worth very much. What creates land value is partially site value and a big dollop of government spending on roads, bridges, water, sewage, police, fire and schools.
    It can be developed privately. I live on a private road with well water. The town doesn't maintain it but people in the neighborhood do.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    It can be developed privately. I live on a private road with well water. The town doesn't maintain it but people in the neighborhood do.
    Ok. If you're talking about some sort of "back-to-the-Earth" thing. Not my cuppa.

  9. #19
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    Not necessarily. There's not really a need to describe every plan in great detail. There can be varying degrees of development. I think too many people underestimate the rate of technology. In the near future we will be able to print out entire houses. No, not the blueprints. The actual house. Statists live in yester-millenia. There's so much more coming that it's obviously unimaginable to those who can only progress up to the primitiveness of state-sponsored infrastructure.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by j3nn View Post
    Statists live in yester-millenia. There's so much more coming that it's obviously unimaginable to those who can only progress up to the primitiveness of state-sponsored infrastructure.

    And computers were going to get rid of boom-and-bust. I'm still waiting for technology to fix political problems. We're not about to ditch Mid-town Manhattan and the port of Oakland for printed houses in the middle of nowhere.

    There's nothing wrong with cities or trade or interdependence. There's just something wrong with who controls it.

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