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Thread: Shoulder stability questions. What my physio said -Need help! page 2

  1. #11
    Neckhammer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marcadav View Post
    Thanks Neckhammer.
    I'll just have to wait and see what the orthopedist has too say. The doctor I saw Wednesday said the fact that I have cerebral palsy, and it's my CP affected shoulder, complicates things.
    NP. Hope yours is an issue that can be resolved with a conservative sort of intervention!

  2. #12
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    i kind of feel like he got the impression that because I was young I just needed to build muscle and get stronger. He seriously did not once examine my shoulders except to put tape on them. Though I explained I dont think he cared!!

    I get shoulder soreness from doing the dishes because my arms and shoulders are out infront of me.
    But he goes and tells me to do power cleans and push presses lol.

    My shoulders feel good today, no pain. So I think Im just going to stick to the pull work for now except maybe pushups (that seratious anterior!!)
    I really wanna OHP but that probably is not a good idea for the time being. I just dont know what else to do

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lockstock View Post
    i kind of feel like he got the impression that because I was young I just needed to build muscle and get stronger. He seriously did not once examine my shoulders except to put tape on them. Though I explained I dont think he cared!!

    I get shoulder soreness from doing the dishes because my arms and shoulders are out infront of me.
    But he goes and tells me to do power cleans and push presses lol.

    My shoulders feel good today, no pain. So I think Im just going to stick to the pull work for now except maybe pushups (that seratious anterior!!)
    I really wanna OHP but that probably is not a good idea for the time being. I just dont know what else to do
    Have you tried doing OH DB presses using a neutral grip ?

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lockstock View Post
    i kind of feel like he got the impression that because I was young I just needed to build muscle and get stronger. He seriously did not once examine my shoulders except to put tape on them. Though I explained I dont think he cared!!

    I get shoulder soreness from doing the dishes because my arms and shoulders are out infront of me.
    But he goes and tells me to do power cleans and push presses lol.

    My shoulders feel good today, no pain. So I think Im just going to stick to the pull work for now except maybe pushups (that seratious anterior!!)
    I really wanna OHP but that probably is not a good idea for the time being. I just dont know what else to do
    Well, and the reason I didn't go into specific advise is because I put a lot of stock into the actual physical exam. It's really impossible to get a clear picture with words and internet. I just assumed this fella at least put you through some sort of evaluation and based his recommendations on that. If he didn't even do that, well then I don't really have anything nice to say about how he practices....lets just leave it at that.

    So yeah, going back to my vague sort of common issues response.... many issues with the shoulders are related to neck, thoracic, scapular glide, and the shoulder itself. In each of those areas you may deal with problems at the joint, muscle, nerve, or combination of them. So one, more than one, or all of those may actually need be addressed to take care of whatever issue your dealing with.

    I don't see the sense in doing any movement that is overly dynamic with an unstable joint...so that nixes your kettlebell swings. I also don't like any movement for the shoulder that puts you in shoulder impingement situations. And I surely would recommend that you do keep pulls in the program as they are an important part of setting and balancing your posterior musculature with that of the anterior.

    If you have pain with a particular motion then you need very specific advice. If you just want general shoulder strength advice then mine is to include at least an equal number of pulls to push work in comparative planes.... and if your fixing an anterior posture then you may even weight your pull work to twice as much as your push work. Lateral raises are OK if you do them at a slight (say 20 degrees) adducted angle and don't go up past 90 degrees and don't do the pinky up thing. Overhead press with a neutral grip may be doable... I'd recommend doing them as a very inclined press so you are not actually verticle, but leaning back just a bit.

    Hope you at least get some helpful ideas from this thread!
    Last edited by Neckhammer; 09-13-2013 at 08:09 PM.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neckhammer View Post
    Well, and the reason I didn't go into specific advise is because I put a lot of stock into the actual physical exam. It's really impossible to get a clear picture with words and internet. I just assumed this fella at least put you through some sort of evaluation and based his recommendations on that. If he didn't even do that, well then I don't really have anything nice to say about how he practices....lets just leave it at that.

    So yeah, going back to my vague sort of common issues response.... many issues with the shoulders are related to neck, thoracic, scapular glide, and the shoulder itself. In each of those areas you may deal with problems at the joint, muscle, nerve, or combination of them. So one, more than one, or all of those may actually need be addressed to take care of whatever issue your dealing with.

    I don't see the sense in doing any movement that is overly dynamic with an unstable joint...so that nixes your kettlebell swings. I also don't like any movement for the shoulder that puts you in shoulder impingement situations. And I surely would recommend that you do keep pulls in the program as they are an important part of setting and balancing your posterior musculature with that of the anterior.

    If you have pain with a particular motion then you need very specific advice. If you just want general shoulder strength advice then mine is to include at least an equal number of pulls to push work in comparative planes.... and if your fixing an anterior posture then you may even weight your pull work to twice as much as your push work. Lateral raises are OK if you do them at a slight (say 20 degrees) adducted angle and don't go up past 90 degrees and don't do the pinky up thing. Overhead press with a neutral grip may be doable... I'd recommend doing them as a very inclined press so you are not actually verticle, but leaning back just a bit.

    Hope you at least get some helpful ideas from this thread!

    I did some Face pulls today. 1 kilo, 15 reps for like 4 sets. I felt a nice burn in my left shoulder (the worse one) which just stands to reason my left external rotators are weak as hell. I also did some more Scapula push-ups. Fu$^ that physio.

    What I plan on doing now is to do external rotations and face - pulls as warm ups on my upper body days and/or after my workouts.

    Do you think rear delt flys are a good exercise? Some people swear by them for getting rid of their shoulder pain because it balances their back shoulders to the front.


    If I gave you a write up of my program (on this thread) do you think you could have a look at it and critique it to the best of your knowledge. I realize not everyone can give me a 100% accurate response because they don't know my body but, if you could give it a shot that would be great!

  6. #16
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    Ok, two workouts. A and B

    Workout A.

    Warm-up -
    5 min cardio.
    1-2 sets of light face-pulls 15-20 reps
    1-2 sets of light dumbbell external rotations 15-20 reps

    Workout
    Dead-lift, 3x5 plus warm-up sets.
    Rows - 3x8 -12 Either bent over barbell rows or 1 arm DB rows, ill go by how I feel. Bodyweight rows on the smith machine or trx aswell.
    Chin-ups (people say chins and neutral grip are easier on shoulders) 3x max or near max reps. Good form.
    Rear delt fly - 3x15-20 reps

    Is that too much volume??

    Workout B.
    Face pulls, as above
    External rotations, as above

    Workout:

    Squat, 3x5
    Push work if at all, but I don't know what to do instead of BB OH press and Bench.


    On my off days, Scapula push-ups, prone cobras or wall slides and band dislocates
    Last edited by Lockstock; 09-14-2013 at 01:05 AM.

  7. #17
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    bump

  8. #18
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    Ok, I just wanted to give everyone an update and ask some more questions.
    My shoulder pain is gone day to day, but it still plays up if I do too much with it in the gym. The other day I did 5 sets of 3 dips, and a few sets of wall handstands NOT to failure and they felt fine. After that I did 2 sets of cable external rotations and my shoulders felt the burn. If I had done any more I would have paid for it though.

    Since then, I've been progressing on the dead lift and squat and been hitting the back work but I cant tell if my shoulder is getting any better.

    When I do external rotations, the next couple of days my bad shoulder hates me. It's not necessarily that i's injured, but it feels weak, and well sore. If I then mimic an external rotation it burns like crazy and feels sore. I can't tell if it's 'lactic acid' sore or "You should not be doing external rotations" sore.

    I've also been doing prone cobras and scapula push-ups, while stretching and massaging my chest and bicep and traps but how long is it supposed to be before I noticed positive changes, not only in my posture but shoulder stability, so I can freaking overhead press again?

    One more question, do I do external rotations to failure, near failure, or just till they start to get harder to perform?

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