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  1. #1
    greenporter's Avatar
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    Whole30 or other approach (wanting to lose weight)?

    Primal Blueprint Expert Certification
    Hello. I have been seriously trying to lose weight since the 3rd week of June. Brief on me...

    Per profile: 57 y.o. male, mostly sedentary, 5'10", 208#, non-smoker. If I have done my calculations right (approx): BMI: 30
    BMR: 1863
    Caloric Maintenance: 2236

    Motivations:

    Health... 2 years elevated blood pressure, auto-immune deficiency, arthritis. I expect to have surgery in the coming 12 months to replace both hips, so fat reduction prior to that on the order of 40 to 50lbs would be ideal. Reducing stress on joints would be great too.

    Family... I have two young boys who love sport as much or more than I used to. Shedding the extra cargo would permit me to do more with them.

    Self image... I don't think of myself as a fat guy. I gained 40# over the course of the past 6 years and I think of myself as I was then @ 170lbs. So, looking at myself in the mirror and all the great clothes in my closet that I can't fit into -- frankly, I find it disgusting. That's just the way I feel about it.

    In June began with an Atkins approach, which I had used with success some years ago after putting on pounds around the time my first son was born. But I quickly converted to Low Carb/High Fat, Ketosis approach. This was a serious lifestyle change, especially for a guy who, almost every weekend, made some of the finest handmade sourdough bread anywhere.

    Under the LCHF regime I was on, NO grains, gluten
    Daily, targets:
    Carbs: 25g
    Protein: 60g
    Fat: 160g

    Dairy... mostly grass fed butter, cream, cheeses. We also got local raw milk from which I made strained yogurt (labne).
    Eggs... local farm, GMO free
    Beef & lamb... grass fed, GMO free
    Pork & lard... from a healthily raised pig I knew
    Poultry... mostly organic
    Oils... extra virgin organic olive & coconut oils, clean lard, grass fed butter, organic ghee
    Nuts & seeds... macadamia, almond, walnut, pecan, pumpkin, sunflower
    Veggies... mostly green leafy, broccoli, celery
    Indulgences... 85 or 90% chocolate, distilled spirits (tequilla, whiskey) and red wine occasionally
    Issues... Eating out, especially for work. Salads but they are not organic.

    Two months of that, I lost not a single pound. Advice I got the past few weeks:

    1. drop nuts & seeds
    - I moderated these

    2. try fasting daily for 16 hours (including sleeptime of course), eating only during an 8-hr span
    - Tried this for a week but dropped that -- I found myself too fixated on my next meal.

    3. drop dairy*
    - I dropped all dairy a week+ ago, which effectively ended the HF aspect of my regime. I am now on a more balanced PB regime with veggies and small portions of fresh fruit.

    4. drop alcohol*
    - I dropped alcohol the beginning of this week.

    5. reduce caloric intake
    - Based on my reading of PB and other stuff, to lose 6lbs per month without any other changes, I need an average daily caloric deficit of 815. With a sedentary lifestyle, that comes to 1420 average calories per day.
    - The target breakdown in protein/carbs/fat in grams: 93/50/94
    - I think I can do this without feeling deprived and if I cannot maintain it, I can adjust my goal (6lb/mo) and/or introduce more exercise into the equation.

    6. exercise, more physical exertion
    - I can't run, sprint or bicycle now (these were my "thing" before my hips went). I walk, with pain/discomfort, at least 15 minutes per day. This is an area I will be focusing on next.

    * With dairy and alcohol gone, I think I effectively commenced the Whole30 this week. Right? (no more weigh-ins for a month!)

    Ok, that's about it. I would appreciate feedback, criticisms, encouragement, partners in crime. Thanks in advance,

    Jim

  2. #2
    thriveful's Avatar
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    Don't eat 1400 cals a day, it's just too low, go for a 20% deficit for awhile and see how that goes. You have some numbers, how are you monitoring intake, or have you been?

    I would skip the brekkie if u can, protein/fat lunch, big evening meal with carbs from veggies etc. if you are not exercising hard, eating starchy foods might just hinder your progress, might not though, u need to experiment.

    Whatever u do, u need to be able to sustain it. The greatest plan is crap if u give up. Monitor intake, weigh in every few days, adjust fortnightly if u need to.

    Btw, have u actually tried eating at your calculated maintenance level to see if u actually do maintain? That's what I would do for the first 2 weeks

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    Castle's Avatar
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    Yeah, 1400 is way too low for you. If your maintenance really is upward of 2220, then that's an 800 calorie deficit. That's not good.

    It's important to realize that fats are very dense calorie-wise. A low-carb, high-fat diet can be very, very easy to overdo. Nuts and oils/fats would be the first thing I'd cut back on if I were you. It also might be worth it to try and add in some carbs - don't feel obligated to stick to low carb if it doesn't work for you.

    You're mostly Whole30, but not entirely with the chocolate. It's important to note that the Whole30 is in no way a weight loss plan. I lost 10lbs the first time I did a W30, but that was right after going primal. The second time I gained 5 pounds.

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    greenporter's Avatar
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    Thanks for quick replies, thriveful & castle.

    Intake. I monitored very closely for awhile on MyFitness and then Fatsecret but I got to the point where I knew how much of what to eat, especially since many in the LCHF camp preach that calories don't matter. Now, I am back to monitoring, using the online tools.

    Deficit. I can play around with that. Like I said, if I feel like it is too much hardship or difficult, I would raise it. Downshifting to a goal of 4 lbs./month would bring me to about 1700 calories, assuming no upshift in exercise regime. But I am not likely to fall off the wagon on account of this -- I adopted the "lifestyle" almost 12 weeks ago and I feel no major hardships (chocolate will be harder to kick than booze, bread or beans).

    Starchy foods? I eat no starchies.

    Skip breakfast and eat a big dinner? I've tried it (that's the 16 hour daily fast I wrote about), I could try it again but a) it was not easy for me and b) I read more success stories from people who don't eat after 6pm than I do about those who skip breakfast. I think Whole30 preaches a significant breakfast and that you do it within 1 hour of awakening. So, I would need to research this more before moving there.

    Adding calories...
    Add carbs? At 50g, I already am adding carbs to my previous regime. But an additional 25g is only 100 calories, which would bring me to 1520.
    Add protein? BP [actually meant PB, as in Primal Blueprint] says that I should be at under .7 x LBM, so that puts me in the 90 - 100g range.
    Add fat? That's the only thing remaining, right?

    While I am still grappling with the questions "why did I not lose weight", I am hoping it will become apparent with these changes I have introduced in the past week or so:
    - No dairy
    - No booze
    - Lower caloric intake

    But with or without weight loss, I want to do this in a healthy manner, which I do not feel was so with LCHF (which this is not).
    Last edited by greenporter; 09-12-2013 at 03:09 PM.

  5. #5
    kiwigal's Avatar
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    The same exact thing happened to me!!!!

    I had to increase my carb level again to start losing on the scale. I now eat sweet potatoes and fruit aiming for 100 grams of carbs per day

  6. #6
    namelesswonder's Avatar
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    Yeah, if low carb isn't working for you, don't do low carb.

    Also, look into autoimmune paleo. It may help with your joint issues.

    Autoimmune Articles |
    Journal on depression/anxiety
    Currently trying to figure out WTF to eat (for IBS-C).

  7. #7
    Castle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenporter View Post
    Deficit. I can play around with that. Like I said, if I feel like it is too much hardship or difficult, I would raise it. Downshifting to a goal of 4 lbs./month would bring me to about 1700 calories, assuming no upshift in exercise regime. But I am not likely to fall off the wagon on account of this -- I adopted the "lifestyle" almost 12 weeks ago and I feel no major hardships (chocolate will be harder to kick than booze, bread or beans).
    While everyone's different and you do have to go off what works for you, I know that during the period I was in an extreme deficit (~1200-1400 calories/day, for a 6'2" male) I lost weight...but it was all muscle. And on the occasions that I did eat more then maintenance (~1 day/week) it was definitely stored as fat. So eating too little might not yield the results you're lo

    Quote Originally Posted by greenporter View Post
    Starchy foods? I eat no starchies.
    Why? Do you have some kind of bad reaction to them? If not, I'd add them in seeing as LCHF doesn't seem to work for you.

    Skip breakfast and eat a big dinner? I've tried it (that's the 16 hour daily fast I wrote about), I could try it again but a) it was not easy for me and b) I read more success stories from people who don't eat after 6pm than I do about those who skip breakfast. I think Whole30 preaches a significant breakfast and that you do it within 1 hour of awakening. So, I would need to research this more before moving there.
    If you're not hungry within an hour of waking up, you shouldn't be eating then. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of the Whole30, but they're not the end-all when it comes to nutrition. Meal timing is a very personal thing -- you should eat when you get hungry, not when someone else tells you to.


    Adding calories...
    Add carbs? At 50g, I already am adding carbs to my previous regime. But an additional 25g is only 100 calories, which would bring me to 1520.
    Add protein? BP says that I should be at under .7 x LBM, so that puts me in the 90 - 100g range.
    Add fat? That's the only thing remaining, right?
    <50g carbs (what you're implying you were at) is very low carb. As is 50. 75 and even 100/day is still low carb. Low carb isn't for everyone -- try adding in starchy veggies (sweet/white potatoes), fruit, even white rice. See how it goes.

    I'm not sure who BP is, but why do you need to stay under .7g protein/LBM?Feel free to add on the protein -- it won't hurt you.

    But with or without weight loss, I want to do this in a healthy manner, which I do not feel was so with LCHF (which this is not).
    I hate to break it to you, but it is. It's low protein, low carb, and by default high fat.

  8. #8
    greenporter's Avatar
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    Thanks for feedback and insight! Sorry, BP meant to be PB, as in Primal Blueprint. By LCHF, I am really referring to a diet that induces and maintains a constant state of ketosis. I will definitely be considering these well informed recommendations, including upping the carbs/starches, after I have given the significant modifications introduced this past week a chance to set.

    Btw, why/how did you lose all muscle and how did you determine that, Castle? Were you not eating enough protein to maintain based on your LBM and activity level? What level would have been right for you?
    Last edited by greenporter; 09-12-2013 at 03:12 PM.

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    Castle's Avatar
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    Low protein intake then, to be sure. My activity level was nonexistent back then, which I'm sure contributed.

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