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Thread: How do I make a non-primal listen, or atleast not judge me page 2

  1. #11
    Katt's Avatar
    Katt is offline Senior Member
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    As others have suggested, it's probably better that you stop talking and just let your proof be your physical well being.

    Start weight: 250 - 06/2009
    Current weight: 199
    Goal: 145

  2. #12
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    Ignore ignorant, let him be the first to ask

    I will be normal. I will be NORMAL again
    Yeah!

  3. #13
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    no offense but he sounds like a typical arrogant MD


  4. #14
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    I think this kind of ongoing debate/conflict is extra-difficult when it's with your partner/ spouse! I'd agree with all the general advice given above about dropping the discussion for awhile and letting your experience of this way of life speak for itself. Sometimes it feels like you're the only couple in the world who sit down to different dinners, but really, plenty of people have arrangements like that.

    Try to remember that the reason you both argue so passionately for your position is that you love the other and want them to be healthy and happy!


  5. #15
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    I agree with the others, it'd be best to drop the subject at this point. But don't try to hide it, either -- mention how good you feel, visibly savor your primal meals, leave medical test results on the kitchen counter or somewhere he's bound to notice them, find a variety of magazines and books on the subject and leave them around. It might be a good idea to start a journal so you can write down and contemplate everything that's going on without voicing it to him right away.


  6. #16
    Mick's Avatar
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    He says, "It&#39;s just not worth my time." "I&#39;m a SCIENTIST - maybe you can fool your friends with non-science background with all your talk, but this is my career, please don&#39;t waste your time or mine!"</blockquote>


    The explorer Robert Falcon Scott has, over the last few years, been bad-mouthed by Ernest Shackleton groupies.


    In point of fact, this is unfair: both Scott and Shackleton came unstuck. Scott, as it happens, was a very methodical, well-organized man with a strong conscience. He planned everything well, and consulted all the experts. (In fact, he took more pains than Shackleton did, who was often lax and badly planned and organized.)


    Consulting the "experts" was Scott&#39;s mistake. Medical men in England thought they knew what he should do. They didn&#39;t.


    Norwegian explorers studied the Eskimo. Some of them went and lived with them. That was why they succeeded, and the Britons did less well - and in some cases died.


    Sometimes medical men do not know best. Sometimes what they know is conventional wisdom, and it often has a very flimsy basis. It&#39;s more prejudice than "science". Doctors thought you needed vegetables, fresh air, and exercise to ward off scurvy. They repeated this to themselves so often it became "scientific fact" for them.


    Vilhjamur Stefansson points out that while Scott and his men (and several previous expeditions - it seems some "men of science" don&#39;t learn from experience) had vegetables, had enough exercise to last a lifetime, and had fresh air in profusion, what really killed them was scurvy. Nansen, by contrast, was holed up over-winter in a cramped hut with Johansen, after the dash for the Pole with no vegetables, little fresh air, and virtually no exercise. They came out unscathed because they had freshly killed under-cooked meat.


    The "fresh air" and the "exercise" didn&#39;t matter a damn. What you must have to ward off scurvy is fresh food - and it doesn&#39;t matter whether it&#39;s vegetable food or it&#39;s flesh food: what matters is that it&#39;s very, very fresh.


    Incidentally, Stefansson is also very, very good on the importance of fat in the diet.


    Excellent reading for "primals":


    http://www.amazon.com/Life-Eskimo-New-Vilhjalmur-Stefansson/dp/1594626510/


    http://www.amazon.com/Fat-Land-Vilhjalmur-Stefansson/dp/B000OMLM4W/


    In any event, medical men "know" what they think they know. They can be completely wrong, as the story about Scott and Nansen shows. And sadly often repeated falsification of their theories doesn&#39;t change their mind.


    I don&#39;t know whether there&#39;s anything anyone can do about it - except let the matter drop.


  7. #17
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    @Katt: I agree.


    @Ethanol: Yep. But it feels like it&#39;s taking forever


    @Gnosis:


    @Aegle: That&#39;s my main gripe - dinner time was something I&#39;d look forward to. Now, with having to cook 2 different meals, we end up eating at different times


    @Kryz: I tried that but to no avail - he&#39;d ask me to remove those books! Journal is a great idea, a great way to vent!


    @Mick: Thanks for all that information. If only I could make him read this.


    I&#39;ve realized that he needs to change his attitude to even comprehend all this and it has to come from him, no matter how much I try, unless he&#39;s willing to listen, it&#39;s not going to happen


  8. #18
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    Don&#39;t forget, science is a religion in it&#39;s own way. The difference between scientism and spiritual religions is that the former will change over time, assimilating new data and arriving at newer conclusions.


    I remember an earth sciences professor in college poo-poing the new theory of tectonic plate movement. Now it&#39;s accepted as fact.


    Pre-Ancel Keyes most nutritionally oriented doctors and scientists saw the values of traditional, high nutrient density foods, even if a bit loaded with grains and tubers. My crystal ball says that these years, which we are just starting to come out of, will be looked at as wandering in the wilderness for a half century - to this point.


    I know what you mean about cooking two meals. I think Mark&#39;s wife is vegetarian, so that household probably does it, just like mine. At least with my old folks there is usually some overlap, like meat, eggs, and veggies. It&#39;s tough, but we have to do it.


    I saw the pain translated to a new low weight this AM on the scale. Keep it up. Er, down.


  9. #19
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    Well I don&#39;t really try. The proof is in the pudding


  10. #20
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    I didn&#39;t know who to talk to, so I figured I might as well post my frustrations here. My being primal is affecting the relationship between me and my husband. He asked me last week never to discuss my diet with him. And I&#39;ve kept my end of the bargain. I come home from work much later than he does but make sure I cook his meal first and make sure he&#39;s fed and then start cooking my primal meals. Today I asked him to help me and he deigned. I was cooking my stuff while he was his. Then he noticed the amount of coconut oil I was using and he got really pissed and said I was spoiling my life and all that. And when I started to explain why CO is good, he stuck both his fingers in his ears. I even had Mary Enig&#39;s "Eat Fat, Lose Fat" extolling the benefits of CO, right near me and I asked him to read it if he was interested. He&#39;s like, "You are trying to tell ME what is good?!!" and his usual stuff about how he knows everything and I don&#39;t know anything. I told him I can send him scientific articles and he&#39;s like anything that I send won&#39;t be good enough for him. And then he starts invoking religion, we&#39;re Hindus, and how it&#39;s wrong to eat meat everyday blah blah. I was raised a Hindu and I don&#39;t think I was ever told our religion forbade eating meat. So he ended our argument by saying he doesn&#39;t see a future for both of us. I feel completely distressed and don&#39;t know where to vent out all this. I apologize if this is too much information or if I&#39;m not adding anything of significance to the forum.


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